There Goes Tuesday Guy Again

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the apostle

Paul said, "'But we did not yield in subjection to them "'for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel "'would remain with you.'"

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. Steve Cooley is right here in my presence, looking chipper as always.

The thunderclouds are gathering though, so you never know. They always are.

Look at that. You know, one of the things about pastoral ministry, Steve, that is, I guess it's frustrating to me.

I guess it's a burden. I guess I understand it. Are you gonna share what's on your heart? I am, this is a sharing time. I like to, probably like everyone else, if there's a problem, and then you fix the problem, you get the car fixed, and they put a new fuse in, or a new battery, and then the problem's fixed, and then you kind of just move on.

But in pastoral ministry, we're all broken and wounded. Well, you know, one problem's fixed, and then the next problem pops up, because you are involved in the lives of lots of people, and whether you're a pastor, or a layperson, or whatever, lots of issues.

So you don't get to rope the calf, and throw your arms up in the air, and it's just done, finished, complete? Well, the thing that I like the most is the branding part, because when that hair sizzles, and you smell that hair, pshht, that's what

I like. Yee -haw. Right after baptism? There's the branding. Name recognition.

You know, if there's someone out there that has a no -co tattoo, please send us the picture. Oh, man.

We'll post it on Facebook. If there's somebody out there with a no -co tattoo, oh, would you just hit me in the ear so I could just pray for you?

We need to get some of those temporary tattoos. Temporary no -co tattoos. Now, that would go a long way with all the rap stuff.

Oh, yeah, especially right here at the Christmas season. What was the big hubbub about all the rap stuff?

We had a bunch of pro -family movement guys saying that rap was for cowards, and how does that work?

Well, I think it's just trying to argue that the culture of rap is so detrimental, and it's so negative.

How could anybody want to Christianize it, I guess? Can you redeem the unredeemable?

Is there any saving it? Well, probably these guys, although they look on the outside like typical family -integrated kind of guys,

I think probably behind the scenes they're listening to Sandinista on their iPods or something.

Pfft. Oh, man. Sandinista, that three -album set from The Clash.

It could have been probably a bestseller at one. One album, yeah. Yeah, but there were just too many.

I mean, I can't even remember all the songs there, but Ivan Meets G .I. Joe, that one comes to mind.

Steve, let's talk about pastoral ministry a little bit, because that's what we do on Tuesdays.

Have you thought much more about the post, the aftermath, the repercussions of Strange Fire, anything that pops in your mind about Strange Fire that you want to tell our audience?

Yeah, well, you know, I have, and it just strikes me that there are some people arguing that maybe over time that there will be kind of a movement towards Calvinists, and the charismatic

Calvinists will kind of be ascendant in this whole thing, and MacArthur's just kind of railing into the ether, and that what he's saying won't really matter in the big scheme of things, because people who really want to be biblical will be both charismatic and Calvinistic.

I think it is taking over. I think if you look at people in evangelical circles these days, the good news,

Steve, is many more are reformed, right? There's been a real renaissance with Reformation doctrine, doctrines of grace, the solas, monergism, and we can thank the

Lord for that, because using vessels and vehicles like Cure, Ace, Boyce, Horton, Sproul, of course,

MacArthur, lots of folks like that. People believe in Reformed doctrines more now, and of course, the purists would say you're not

Reformed if you just are a five -point Calvinist. There's more to the Reformation than that, and Reform, but always

Reforming. But along with it has come charismatic, and who could have ever predicted that the two would go hand -in -hand?

I like to ask Mark Knoll the question, or other church historians, when do we ever have five -point charismatics?

When did that come about? Well, most likely only in the last, what, 30, 40 years, because before that,

I mean, really, when you understand that charismatic theology per se didn't really exist until about 100 -plus years ago, and now it's just, it's virtually everywhere.

Then you would say, when did we ever have that? Well, we didn't, and some people will just argue, well, there were certainly indications that Spurgeon had ecstatic experiences, or Lloyd -Jones was open to the gifts of the

Spirit, or whatever, and way before Lloyd -Jones, Edwards had little oddities in his -

Piccadillo's. Yes, so what are we to make of that? And you don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater, that whole thing.

So I don't know, where does it go? Well, I think, I mean, just my take on it is the problem for charismatic

Calvinists, to use that term, is that at some point you run, two things run against each other.

One is sola scriptura, and the other one is God told me, and which one takes precedence, you know, and people say, well, that's not really an issue because God only tells me things, excuse me, on a small scale,

God tells me things just for me. Why, is my question, you know, if he has something to tell you outside of scripture, you know, why are these things just limited, and you know, how does that really work with sola scriptura,

I don't really know, but I still get bugged, and I think I always will get bugged when somebody says,

God told me. I was trying to think of something funny to say.

Steve, I, here's what I observe with the fallout of Strange Fire. I really,

I'm surprised there is a fallout. People are mad at John because he said this, that, or the other, and they don't want to be called out.

I say to myself, all right, if people, what do I say when Ergon Kanner calls out

Calvinists? I don't care, I could care less. Why, because I'm right.

I think I'm right, I think I could defend this. Not because I came up with it, of course God has given me insight into scriptures, and I want to give him the glory for what my views are, but I don't care, and so I just find there's an uneasiness with charismatics because they don't want to be told by anyone.

This is not true, this is not historical, this is not biblical, this is not exegetical. You guys.

I was gonna say, it's not educated. Well, I know. So, anyway, I don't think all charismatics are unbelievers or anything like that.

I just think there's been a lot of crybabies in the charismatic camp who, well, but you don't have a single verse,

Mike, that just says the gifts have ceased. Okay, I guess we've come to that, and so then

I go, all right, I guess that means now you win, and the gobbledygook that comes out of your mouth for tongues

I guess that's biblical. I just read Strange Fire, and I liked it.

I didn't read every word, but I thought John does an excellent case in saying something like this.

You continuationists are cessationists in many aspects.

We're talking about the conservative charismatics. So apostles for today, no.

Well, you're conceding to the fact that there's some ceasing of these spiritual gifts, and he goes right on down the line.

I thought, you know what? I like that, Strange Fire. I hope there's another one next year. I don't think there will be, but.

No, well, there won't be another conference. I think the plan now for the Grace to You things is to have one every other year.

For Strange Fire? Not necessarily Strange Fire. I don't know, you know, maybe they'll have some kind of follow -up to Strange Fire, but I mean, a couple of years ago it was on a different topic entirely.

In fact, I really thought this year was gonna be the gospel according to Paul, which, you know,

I've been kind of thinking that that would happen, but it didn't happen. Well, I don't know if this is true or not, because MacArthur, he goes for things, and I'm glad for that, but why have the charismatics been so silent regarding policing their own?

And I think if they would have been policing their own as time has progressed, I think John would have had less of a reason to have a whole conference on it.

You know, you wait 18 years in between the books, Charismatic Chaos and Strange Fire, and if you have the

Wayne Grudems and the Sam Storms and the John Pipers and the, who else,

C .J. Mahaney's Otherworld and Matt Chandler's policing the movement, then it'd make it a lot easier for me to say they realize these other people are completely wacky, and so John stands up and I'm glad he did.

Well, and instead, and you and I were talking about this off the air, what we've seen over the last years is what the so -called charismatic

Calvinists have been entertaining people like Rick Warren and T .D.

Jakes and Steve Furtick, and you just go, okay, well, you guys are supposed to stand up for the truth, and yet you wind up, you know, basically doing ministry events with heretics, how does that work?

Yeah, or just because you're a charismatic, changing the verbiage, so Stephen Chalke comes out with a book in Jesus and Death on the

Cross, if you believe in penal substitution, divine child abuse, Grudem says, rightfully, but maybe knee -jerk, that's blasphemy, but then has to retract it because I don't know his motives, but it seems like, okay,

I just cannot condemn a fellow charismatic like that because we need charismatics.

I cannot explain it. Well, and when you look at, you know, one of the things they did at the conference,

I get so tired of this broad brush thing because, I mean, one of the things they did, they said, look, there are 500 million charismatics in the world, and out of that 500 million,

I think they said, you know, it's like 25 % are, or whatever it was, you know, Roman Catholics, and they just kind of break down all the percentages, and so, excuse me, when you're getting down to charismatic

Calvinists, you're talking about a sliver of a sliver of a sliver, and those guys can't examine the teachings of the predominant, you know, the oneness

Pentecostals, the charismatic Catholics, they can't condemn anybody. Well, why not? You know, it is, is what binds us together our belief in the gifts, or is what binds us together

Christ and the gospel? You know, are we together, there's a nice conference, right, together for the gifts?

What do you think's gonna happen to, not together for the gospel, because that's, every two years, you get together and have some speakers, and it's not really a movement, but what about the gospel coalition?

How long do you think it can go, Steve? What do you think is gonna happen to it? What will break it up?

I mean, eventually, it's got to break up, at least in my mind, it will eventually. Is it, will it be on the homosexual issue?

Will it be on charismatic issue? What do you think will happen? Evolution, you know, what will it be? I don't know, you know,

I mean, are we gonna have the gospel coalition and the, no, the real gospel coalition, you know, they'll just kind of,

I mean, the history of the 20th century is replete with division, with splitting of denominations over relatively, for the most part,

I mean, some of them were minor issues, but relatively substantive issues, and now, basically, the movement is, or the mindset is, we need to just ignore the substantive issues and be united about minor issues, and I'm just like, no,

I don't, I don't think the Bible would push us that way. Should we be united about our views on charismatic gifts?

Is that what we rally around? You know, the gift's forever. Today, tomorrow, and, you know, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, forever the same, whatever.

To infinity and beyond. All right, Steve, we're just talking about a variety of topics today.

How about the radio interviewer who asked a very popular, prominent

Seattle -based pastor about questions? Are there limits to questions that you should ask?

Is it implied that when I get a free book in the mail and then I talk to the guy on the radio,

I have to try to promote the books, or can I go after things, or what's your take with the whole

Mefferds -Driscoll thing? Well, you know, we may or may not agree. I don't know, we haven't really talked about this, but I kind of like,

I agree with her. You know, did Mark Driscoll plagiarize? I mean, the evidence is pretty solid that, you know, whether it was intentional or incidental, it doesn't really matter.

At the end of the day, it's pretty hard to believe that somebody could kind of put out all that information and not have cribbed it from somewhere, right?

But would I have gone about it that way? You know, invite him on my show, kind of not tell him ahead of time, by the way, be ready to gird yourself up like a man because I'm gonna dress you down like one.

I probably wouldn't have done that. But what she did, or you know, the truth is, he pretty much looks guilty.

Well, people have been posting other interviews that he's been on where he's been kind of after the interviewer, and here he's the one that's gotten after.

Truman, I think is right when he asks questions like, well, who can ask these kinds of questions to the top dogs anymore?

I mean, in what form can you ask them? I think she gave a lot of ammo to the Driscoll followers saying, you know, she just wouldn't let up and she should have been talking about the book or something, but these men seem over and above any kind of criticism.

I personally think Driscoll's got guys writing his books for him. He preaches things, they take the stuff, turn them into books, the docent group or whatever, they do it, and then there was some lifting of things.

I don't even know if he did it, but his name's on it. Yeah, so what does above reproach mean?

That means they throw things at the wall and they don't stick. You know, well, certainly people are throwing things at the wall, your name's attached to it.

Look, if I write a book for you, this hasn't happened, but if I write a book for Mike, doesn't

Mike have an obligation to read it before it goes to the publishers and just kind of go, you know,

Steve, I have to tell you, a lot of these things sound like Peter Jones said them. You know, and I go, oh, sorry,

Mike. I was looking for a little filler and I stole 20 pages from Peter. You know,

I robbed Peter to pay you. I think part of it is there's been so many things in Mark's ministry that there's, this is just like the one that puts it over the top.

This is the proverbial straw where people are out there looking for things, and you know, in all honesty,

Steve, you get a magnifying glass and put it over me and my ministry and you and your ministry.

Oh, don't drag me into it. Funny. We all fall so short. That's why we're supposed to preach who

Jesus is and what Jesus has done. And we're supposed to be preaching Christ and Him crucified. So that's why it's like, okay, don't do a bunch of dumb things in a row, right?

With the marriage book that he wrote and the sex stuff. And I got the dream about my wife and all these other kinds of things and what she did before and stayed up all night and threw up.

I mean, I just don't, there's just too many things. And so...

Well, you know, kind of the thing with Driscoll, just even to think about this is, it's like he's basically not had a thought that he hasn't revealed.

And so let's say, and I don't believe that he had visions, but let's say for whatever reason, he believes that he's had these visions and they're pornographic and everything.

Well, you just have to kind of think to yourself, and I've been talking about this in Sunday school. Listen, before you say something, you need to think about what the consequences of what you're going to say are.

So when you tell people that the Lord has given you these visions that are filled with grotesque sin, you need to think, well, what are people gonna think when they hear that?

They're gonna think that's pretty bizarre, Mark. They're gonna think that that's patently unbiblical and why would

God do something like that? Why would he sully your mind with those kinds of things? If he was gonna do anything, if God was going to do anything, why wouldn't he just prompt you to ask a few questions?

Because God knows everything. You're a Calvinist, right? He knows what that person has done and he also knows how they're gonna respond to certain situations.

So couldn't he give you exactly the right words to say to a person so they would tell you what was going on or they would confess their sins or whatever so that your mind wouldn't have to be filled with all these visions?

Well, last night I was watching online, Driscoll and his wife being interviewed by, what's his name,

Drew Pinsky or the Dr. Drew love line or something like that. Dr. Drew Pinsky, yeah, that's right. And so they were asking questions about things and you know,

Mark says many biblical truths and he can articulate the gospel, but at the very beginning,

I'm the pastor of a 13 ,000 person church. That's just front loaded.

Doom, doom, doom. I mean, it sounds like there should be the Olympic theme song before he says that, right?

And he's gonna put the gold medal on his own head and everything. Well, we're never gonna have to struggle with having 13 ,000 people up here,

Steve, but if we ever do, I hope I don't tell people. Are you kidding? I think maybe this

Sunday, 13 ,000 could be here. I was driving from the church building here to my home a couple of weeks ago upon our return trip from Orlando and I thought,

I live out in the boonies. We live out in the sticks. There's nothing out here. There isn't even a place.

What is it? The DCU Center doesn't even hold 13 ,000. There might be a football stadium, maybe somewhere, you know.

Yeah, I don't even think Holy Cross Stadium, not just the cross, but the Holy Cross University.

I don't think their stadium holds 13 ,000. Really? Yeah, you're probably right.

It's pretty small, right? It's pretty small, yeah, probably. No, where could we go? I don't know. Well, I mean, if we set up chairs in the football field at Holy Cross, do you think

Holy Cross would let us do that? Maybe we could do the outside stadium thing to save money, kind of the

Francis Chan deal that he had going on 10 years ago. Nice. Outside deal. That'd be very nice. Could we do that in New England? Sure, yeah.

Yeah, come rain, come shine, come snow, come sleet, come hail. Steve, let's try to end the show on a positive note.

Something, you know, encouraging. Edifying? Yeah, positive, something like that. Okay, now what would it be?

Well, I thought you had an idea. I mean, you shift gears and you make, you know.

By the way, this is live radio. I know, it shows you, though, that it seems to be the negative things that make the news, isn't it?

You know, in evangelicalism, it's the controversial things, it's the negative things. Steve just pointed to his

Christianity Today because that's always a good fodder. And positive, you know. Let's end on a good note and we'll.

I know, okay, go ahead. You can go for it. And we'll talk about the positive aspects of Gordon -Conwell Theological Seminary.

Yeah, okay. I'll let Mike go ahead. You know, here's a. I'll let Mike. Well, here's a fine young lady here who is pursuing a

Master of Divinity degree and a Master of Arts in Counseling. Steve, what would happen to us if our church building was located closer to the illustrative campus of Gordon -Conwell?

What would happen, do you think? You think we'd get a lot of Gordon -Conwell students who would do internships here? Well, if they did, they'd be leaving

Gordon -Conwell. I mean, it would be. I mean, it's much like, I want to be fair here.

Okay, I'm being fair. It's on its way to becoming a fuller theological seminary. Yeah, how long will it take to get there,

I wonder? Eh, maybe Christmas. Hey, I wanted to ask you while I've got you on the line because you were sick for a while.

When Moeller spoke in front of the Mormons, I don't know if it was BYU or where it was,

Salt Lake, and he said, we may not be going to heaven together, but we might be going to jail together.

When Moeller said that, were you glad Moeller went to speak there? Was that a bad thing, good thing?

It was different than Richard Mao. When Mao goes and says, we're all on the same team, Moeller seemed to differentiate, but I think he still got some flack for that.

Yeah, was I glad he went there? I don't know if glad would be, I wasn't disappointed, let's put it that way, because I did like the fact that he did draw the line, you know, and it's really,

I will say this about Christianity today. There's a testimony in the back of it from a lady who came out of Mormonism.

Now it's filled with a bunch of junk. But what she did say, and the real key to me is, as Mormons, they think they are uber -Christians.

They think that they have more truth, that they're living better lives, and the poor Christians just don't have all the truth.

And I, so getting back to Moeller, I thought the key thing that he said there is, we're not going to heaven together.

You know, because that might shock a few of them, because they're convinced in their minds that they're going to heaven.

And they're convinced in their minds that they're Christians, because they say they're Christians. They believe in Jesus, and that's what

Christianity means. So, you know, just from that standpoint alone, it might be enough to kind of jar people out of their lethargy, you know, thinking that they're good to go there.

So I thought that was good. Well, coming from an ex -Mormon, I appreciate that.

And today on No Compromise Radio, it's been, what should we call today, Steve? Pastoral Musings? Yes, Tuesday, Pastoral Musings.

I think I'm going to write a new book, and it's going to be called... TPM. It's going to be called Musings Ourself to Death.

Hmm, that's pretty close. I mean, that's almost plagiarism, Mike. Well, you think about any thought we've had, we hope it's not original, and we are just personalizing that truth, and so...

I mean, the danger of original thoughts, right? If you have an original thought, then you're probably off base.

Yeah, we actually don't want that. No, because God has gifted men. We read that in Ephesians 4. We understand that they're gifts of the church, and we need to be faithful to what they have taught.

You can write us at info at nocompromiseradio .com, or steve at tuesdayguy at nocompromiseradio .com.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston.

You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE its staff or management.