Total Insanity... then Important Issues about Secularism, Homosexuality, and Regeneration

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:37

And good afternoon, whatever it is you're listening listening to the dividing line greetings.

00:43

Wow that The Coogee's driving the camera crazy. Oh, no, it's pixelated. Okay, it's it's

00:49

Pixelated so it makes me look like I'm swimming in the ocean or something. It's really weird. Hey, welcome to the device

00:56

Delight we're gonna do today Yes, that's much better thank you is we're going to start off with Absolute positive absurdity

01:11

Get out of the way And I've got some important stuff to talk about I hope that that works for you.

01:18

There is There's some yeah, there's some there's some wild stuff going on in the world.

01:23

We need to get to it, but I You know you have to make a decision Sometimes There are things you encounter that are just So beyond absurd

01:39

That you have to make a decision. I just I'm not gonna touch that. I'm not even good You know, it's just just craziness, you know

01:47

But sometimes it is just so illustrative That it's it's worth taking that now in this situation.

01:54

I know that the people that have produced this video are Desperate for attention.

02:00

They've got a lot of followers sort of scary, especially when you read their followers comments it's I mean

02:07

But they are their own little cult. They're the only their own little cult group I'm referring to some of you may recall way way way back up and and I'd like to thank the person who sent me this

02:22

Marie Marie sent me the smiley face cup. Oh, that's still hot.

02:29

I can't talk anymore and a little Warmer over here. So my tea will stay will stay warm Oh, you can't oh, you can't see the cup.

02:38

Oh, there it is. I was gonna say there's some it's one of those little things Where the smiley faces you can't see them unless you put something hot in it, and then they show up I think that's really cool

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However, I'm fairly certain that the folks that create this video will find a way to connect that to demonism

02:53

As you're about to see anyway, some of you remember many many moons ago, uh

03:01

That I had a written debate Well, not a complete written debate as I recall with brother

03:08

John Mary and this was this was in the early 90s as I recall it was

03:16

It was a long time ago. It was at least 20 years ago Really? Okay, and I linked to it this morning on On Facebook I grabbed the search for the blog articles and it's it's still there anyway

03:34

These folks are set a vacant ISTs. They are ultra traditionalists.

03:39

They are Not Orthodox Roman Catholics. There there are no the Roman Catholics are not

03:45

Roman Catholic enough for the Pope's not Catholic enough for them. Well this Pope, okay But even

03:51

John Paul II wasn't wasn't Catholic enough for them Ratzinger wasn't Catholic enough for them These are the radical out there in the woods praying to Mary type folks and They're all upset because I generally ignore them because they don't represent anybody

04:10

I mean if you're gonna do a debate on Roman Catholicism, it's probably best to represent something. It's at least within the

04:17

Orthodox sphere of Roman Catholicism and and they all they represents themselves and They're also quite simply

04:28

Incapable of rational thought I mean read read, you know, he's oh, that's really mean read the debate with brother

04:36

John Mary and You'll see what I mean There is there is they are to Roman Catholicism what

04:47

Gail Ripplinger is to Independent fundamental Fundamentalist Baptist something like that.

04:54

Okay, except they may go beyond Gail That's pretty hard to do but they may actually go beyond on Gail Ripplinger, um, and so evidently last night

05:12

One of I don't I don't I've not kept up with them 20 years. I was reading a little stuff on today

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I didn't have time to bring it up. They're up in What was it again?

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Not Fullerton, but someplace up, New York, you know, and Evidently, they're sort of run by a brother a team of brothers the diamond brothers

05:40

Peter and Michael I think and if I recall correctly, I didn't have a chance to go back and read the the logs on on The unit that logs everything for the chat channel but I Think I was told that it was

05:57

Peter that came into the chat channel now You've told me that we get stuff from these these guys and their fans every once in a while Okay You know, they are desperate for evidently given this video

06:13

Let's put this way They spend a whole lot more time thinking about me than I spent thinking about them since I haven't thought about them

06:21

In a decade at least maybe more. Yes I was gonna say there's a common thread and in just about everything

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I get from any of and that is how much how very Very very afraid you are of them.

06:33

Oh, yes. Yes deal with because you're you're terrified of them. Yes, I every day

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And Yeah, these are these are the very bold Well, these guys would have gone on crusades, okay, you know these well, they think they would have

06:53

I don't know if they actually But they're they had that kind of an attitude. Let's put it that way so Comes into our chat channel and we call it trolling when you when you come into the chat channel, and you're you're you're there for a reason, but you're not honest about what the reason really is and Threw out this this

07:15

URL to a video that they put out About yours truly and I seem to recall that when it was first posted.

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I had seen somebody Say something about it on Twitter or something. I had seen

07:29

You know like the title and I'm just like oh, I know who they are Who cares did just just moved on didn't even look at it.

07:36

And I guess that bothered them because they let me tell you something They have spent

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Hours and hours and hours Putting this together.

07:48

I mean Wow, but I guess when you live in a monastery, you don't really have anything else to be doing in life then be sitting on the web and Grabbing video does kind of make you wonder that they actually have internet in.

08:03

Oh, they do I think I think that's their primary field of quote -unquote ministry Yep, it is it's yeah.

08:12

Mm -hmm as you'll see there are it's clip after clip after clip of This the dividing line and they have to sit there and watch all of that You know,

08:24

I did want to say that I after watching this this morning It occurred to me that they didn't actually as they're simply running clip after clip after clip

08:34

They didn't actually get permission and then I realized later That you know, it wasn't for criticism it was for parody because I laughed

08:43

Yeah, it's um, so it's okay, yeah, it's fine that's fun

08:51

Okay, so Why would I play as well because I've just never seen anything like this

08:57

I've never seen anything like this. I've never seen anything this Ridiculous and So I thought

09:06

I would Share with you. So here we go

09:14

Here's What what's it called

09:19

Vatican what was it called Vatican Catholic comm I think or something like that Here's just a section

09:30

What oh, no, I'm not plugged in actually, you're right. There we go

09:36

Um, here's just a Portion of of this but do you want to find out how to recognize demons?

09:49

Don't go to the Bible for that Don't go to the Bible for that. No, there's there's another way and Here's here's here's how you recognize

10:01

Demons you actually sort of need editing software So you can stop and start videos because that's that's where you'll find it

10:11

Okay, here we go This video however will now move to considering the spiritual component

10:17

It will cover and expose what are in my opinion clear and striking manifestations of a demon operating in James White Let's get into it in our videos

10:28

We have shown that James White repeatedly flashes and displays the El Diablo hand sign

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Which is also known as the devil's horns the El Diablo hand sign or the devil's horns looks like this

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This is a picture of Anton LaVey the founder of the quote Church of Satan giving the devil's horns hand sign

10:45

James White has displayed this symbol many times far more times than anyone I've ever seen in my opinion

10:51

There's an obvious reason he does it He doesn't do it deliberately But rather the devil in white moves him to repeatedly flash the devil's horns as a sign of the wicked spirit that guides and dominates

11:02

Him let's be clear James White's many heresies false doctrines and lies prove that he's of the devil

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But God will sometimes allow or compel a demon to manifest its presence in someone by various external

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Indications and signs and with white we're not talking about him having displayed the devil's horns once twice or even three times

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No, he has done it many times publicly in speeches in programs, etc God allows him to display it over and over again because he's a false teacher of the devil

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He leads people into various heresies and into hell by means of distortions false arguments, etc

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I've also noticed that when white gives the devil's horns sign at least in the occasions

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I've seen it's frequently when he's attacking Catholic teaching or promoting one of the many heresies of Protestantism the fact that white frequently flashes the devil's horns is quite interesting and revealing in itself see our documentary on justification for how that fits in precisely with the

11:58

Bible's warning about Satan's ministers presenting themselves as ministers of righteousness or Justification however in recently viewing a debate

12:07

James White had in March of this year I came across something else that provides even more striking evidence for what

12:13

I'm discussing I will be examining and critiquing portions of a public debate James White had on March 23rd 2015 with another

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Protestant named Greg Strawbridge Strawbridge a Presbyterian was arguing that infants should be baptized according to biblical teaching

12:28

White a Baptist was arguing that infants should not be baptized according to biblical teaching

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It was a debate about infant baptism as is so often the case James White was defending and promoting a false and unbiblical

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Position. He was attacking the apostolic truth that baptism and the promise of salvation in Jesus Christ is for you and your children

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Acts 2 38 to 39 and that baptism is for you and your household see Acts 16 15 among other verses even though Strawbridge the

12:57

Presbyterian does not believe that baptism regenerates and thus he denies the clear teaching of the

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Bible and the witness of The entire early church on baptismal regeneration. He is nevertheless correct that according to biblical teaching

13:09

Baptism is to be administered to infants and young children who will be raised in the community of believers

13:15

Now I'm going to play a number of clips from this debate as you view them. Look carefully at James White's face

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I will also stop and freeze the video on occasion so that people can get a closer look at what's happening

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What you will see if you are observant and honest is that White's face is actually contorting and that he is in fact making demonic

13:35

Faces he does this many times in the debate Especially when he begins to attack the truth that infants should be baptized to get the full picture

13:43

One should carefully view all the clips. I'm going to cover. Here's the first clip. We will consider and He the jailer took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds and immediately he was baptized

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He and all his household. Did you see that? Let's play that again

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And he the jailer took them that very hour of the night And washed their wounds and immediately he was baptized he and all his household

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That's not a natural facial motion at all It is rather in my view a clear manifestation of the devil in white and if you're not convinced by that one

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Watch this. This is from the same section of the debate Now I suggest the following would be a consistent

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Reformed exegesis the Apostles proclaimed the gospel to all

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Who were in the household? Did you see that? Let's play that again Now I suggest the following would be a consistent reformed exegesis

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The Apostles proclaimed the gospel to all Who were in the household he's clearly making demonic faces, there's no question about it

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That's the face of anti -catholicism the devil It's obvious that a demon is animating him white actually makes these demonic and contorted faces many times in the debate

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But sometimes they are made more quickly than the one we just viewed that is to be expected

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Of course, usually God will only allow something like this to be revealed very quickly or in more subtle ways

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Here are some more examples. That is not a consistent reformed interpretation We would never come to those conclusions using the same kind of hermeneutics that we together use to defend the deity of Christ or Justification by faith and yet I have heard that kind of argument used many times and it screams to me tradition not

15:44

Exegesis, did you catch that? I'll play it again and freeze it. That is not a consistent reformed interpretation

15:51

We would never come to those conclusions using the same kind of hermeneutics that we together use to defend the deity of Christ or Justification by faith and yet I have heard

16:03

That kind of argument used many times and it screams to me tradition

16:12

Not exegesis that's the face of a demon James White clearly has a devil, okay

16:25

Folks I I Don't even know how to how do you respond to something like that?

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this There is the face. There is a this is a good example of of why

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The Christian faith should never have developed monasticism because When you lock people in a monastery for a long periods of time they go insane.

16:53

Okay They and then when you give them computers They end up sitting there staring

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What? Did he actually watch? the entire debate in slow motion,

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I mean Did you watch all that how much time? I mean

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I? It is it is I guess I Guess it's really a good testimony as to how much impact we've had

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That they think they've got to sit there and and invest their life in watching this

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Webcast in slow motion to try to find where that might happen.

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But what if that happens? What does that mean? Or what does that mean?

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Who knows? You could find something And we all know people do this on the on the right and the left

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You see these pictures on Facebook or news feeds and stuff

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You know, it's pretty easy to do to Hillary Clinton Bernie Sanders is a constant meme generator along those lines, but when you take anybody anybody on video doesn't matter who it is and And Look for freeze frames

18:20

You can make anybody look silly. It's it's easy to do. It's child's play child's play now

18:27

I don't know what I was doing there. Other than It seems fairly obvious to me.

18:33

I Forgot to bring him in here, but I Don't wear these glasses anymore. I like them they were a little heavy and They were my first pair of progressives now if you've never worn progressives

18:49

Then Stop that Yeah I'm sure

18:55

I'll find something out of that too. See the demon made him do it. It's great Progressives You get used to them you get used to them, but you got a sort of Well, first of all, they've got to stay in one spot and if they're sliding you got to get them back to where they need to be and what

19:17

I'm doing is I've got an iPad here and I've got an audience out here and so I'm going between two different focal lengths and My glasses were slipping a little bit.

19:27

So you you just just push them back up using your using your nose fairly easy to do I don't have did anymore

19:34

Because like I said, I didn't bring him in here. They're on my desk I went with a

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Wireframe thing and those Chris all lenses, by the way Rizal Wow Honestly, that's what you got

19:48

They don't get dirty. I mean I I've had to wipe them maybe five times as I got them

19:56

And I hate dirty glasses. So But they're they are the lightest. I think that's

20:02

I think I measured them at six grams or something like that It's just just ridiculously light. So they generally don't slide

20:10

They don't there's no weight to them. These were pretty heavy Oakley's are really nice. I'm sorry

20:15

I just can't get past wait until Gale Rippling or gets a little man And then the signs, oh good night.

20:22

Well wait wait Titanic's gotta be in there somewhere Yeah, well, well wait till the diamond brothers get hold of Gale Replinger and her videos.

20:31

I mean, wow, you know There there you go from there I Assume that's probably what it was part of it's just simply shadows and things like that and and but the scary thing is

20:50

These guys actually believe this stuff These guys actually do this. This is the ultra cultic form of Romanism the the ultra traditionalist

21:03

Ulta ultra cultic wacko form of Roman Catholicism and Sadly, there are a lot of people remember what

21:13

Michael Fallon told us at the Debate with Stravinsky's you were taught we were talking about before him.

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Yeah after after the debate with Peter Stravinsky's Michael Fallon was standing somewhere out in the audience and it had gone fairly late and he was listening to some conversations going on and He was listening to this

21:36

Roman Catholic He was saying oh when the father spoke you could

21:42

You know, it was just it was just so wonderful and and it was just so great to hear him speak

21:49

But when white spoke you could see the demons circling his head and I'm just like Wow, okay.

21:59

There's a There's an unbiased Especially I mean, come on the Stravinsky's debate

22:05

That was one of the most lopsided debates I've ever done Peter Stravinsky's this day is incredibly angry that when you google his name

22:15

The first day it comes up is the debate that we did on Long Island he's oh

22:22

The memes are flowing Twitter is exploding with with memes because I mean, it's just it is without a doubt the most absurd they've ever seen it really illustrates just how

22:36

Wow, I have to feel sorry for Greg Strawbridge though Because he's sitting there in a debate with you and you are sneaking in all these anti Catholic isms

22:45

Yeah, Oh for Greg. Yeah. No, no idea and and there's certainly nothing anti -presbyterian in there at all

22:52

Just know I'll bet there is if you look deeper This is the face of anti Catholicism There you go folks, it's um, you can't make this stuff up I couldn't believe when

23:06

I saw it and I just thought we'd get the absurd stuff out first So that's uh, we can we can move on to other things

23:20

Okay, do you have that one Okay, let's uh, let's get let's get serious because there's a lot of serious stuff going on.

23:31

Um It does seem that what took place yesterday is

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Related to militant Islam It looks like right now

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Possibility of radicalization through the wife But there's still a lot up in the air but Starting late last night.

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And then this morning I was running and I listened to the briefing on my run and I listened to Dr.

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Albert Moller for whom I am extremely Grateful and thankful discussing this image if we can

24:16

Put it up there Now the whole thing. No, there we go

24:21

Uh Daily News God isn't fixing this now

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When I first saw this when I first saw this it was fairly small

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And so I Couldn't See what was in the stuff around it and I couldn't read

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What was at the bottom all I saw was God isn't fixing this Daily News God isn't fixing this because it was so small and I think

24:57

I misinterpreted it. I think I misinterpreted it When I first saw that I saw it as a

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Mockery of God Based upon the idea that God was supposed to be somehow fixing this

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In reality when you look at it It's mocking Ted Cruz Rand Paul Lindsey Graham Paul Ryan all of who?

25:28

Use the term prayer Lots of prayers. That's the big thing now, isn't it? And of course,

25:34

I was just watching during lunch Neil Cavuto Had a section.

25:40

He was really angry about this. In fact, he threw this thing across the you know did this thing He was so mad about it

25:47

And It was the Secretary of State and President Obama Both of whom used the very same phrase thoughts and prayers

25:59

And he said so will the Daily News be coming out with us something about them tomorrow. Well, of course not well, we understand the hypocrisy of the communist left is well known and the communists own the most of the media so This is secularism in its full flower in essence

26:23

You know as latest batch of innocent Americans are left lying in pools of blood cowards who could truly end gun scourge

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Continue to hide behind meaningless platitudes. And so First of all, you've got you've got the claim that somehow

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Ted Cruz Lindsey Graham Paul Ryan and Rand Paul could end the

26:43

Gun scourge Really you really think that you think those four men could do that You really think the passing

26:55

Just disarming the American public. Do you think that would disarm the American public? How did that work with?

27:01

Marijuana or drugs in general, you know PCP and meth and coke

27:08

Total bands worked real well, didn't it? No, not really So someone here is living on a planet where they're making things up and living in a different dimension and things like that but then they have

27:24

I Mean, honestly just just for a second. Do you think that an

27:30

American law is gonna stop any? Jihadi from using a gun Really and where did this happen in the

27:39

Socialist Republic of California for crying out loud? I mean it What?

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What planet are people living on when they can look at Chicago with his draconian gun laws?

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and how many people die every day there and Go we just need more laws.

27:59

That's just all we date Okay, I'm sorry, I Have lost all hope in the common sense of the

28:10

American voter. It's it's gone. It's gone over done with Now I just have to wonder if anybody in that place had been armed

28:23

Maybe 14 people wouldn't be dead. Maybe there might be seven, but maybe two of those would be terrorists, you know anyway

28:32

And then you've but then you've got the real thing behind meaningless platitudes now two things

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If what you mean by that is that prayer is meaningless and you probably do mean that I hear your secularism.

28:51

Got it. But part of me actually agrees with that because let's be honest

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How many politicians when they say our thoughts and our prayers, what does that mean?

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Your thoughts what do your thoughts do I mean from a secular worldview your thoughts are nothing more than electrical impulses between Neurons in their brain and they don't go outside of your cranium.

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What what are they? They're nothing so thoughts and prayers are nothing to a secularist and If there is no

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Consistent Recognition of God's law and God's righteousness in your life.

29:37

Don't talk about thoughts and prayers Don't even talk about prayers. In fact,

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I'll be perfectly honest with you. I am NOT I Did not know

29:48

I I am NOT one of those people Put this way That has ever been out on the street bang the drum about public prayer

30:01

Well, the United States started going downhill we took prayer out of the schools, no it didn't Prayer was taken out of schools because we have been going downhill for a long time.

30:11

I believe prayer is an act of worship and hence,

30:19

I Don't believe that forcing an act of worship upon unregenerate people

30:25

Is an appropriate thing to be done. I really don't So this whole thing about thoughts and prayers,

30:35

I just Unless you are seriously saying that I am a person of prayer and I am going to ask

30:43

Jesus Well, I'm gonna ask you this to do what? Because see when

30:49

I first saw this When I first heard about this, my first thought was How dare anyone say that God has to fix this now hold on folks

31:06

Have any of you listened to what I said after 9 -eleven? Long time ago now long time man coming up on 15th anniversary long time ago

31:21

I've been pretty Man the the the memes are amazing.

31:30

Um, I I've been pretty consistent on this and I don't take a popular position.

31:36

It's less popular now than it was after 9 -eleven After 9 -eleven I said you want to talk about God bless

31:42

America. Yeah, God bless America with heartfelt Soul -shaking repentance.

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That's the only blessing America needs That's only gotten worse a lot worse Since 2001

31:56

God's under no obligation to fix Anything God's only obligation is to glorify himself.

32:06

And if your theology is that God is best glorified when we are most pampered Well, then

32:15

I don't know where you got that theology. You didn't get it from the Bible You didn't get it from Christian history or anything else and the idea that it's

32:24

God's role and God's job to be running around Comforting us is unbiblical, it's unbiblical

32:35

Nobody who's ever seriously read the Bible Seriously, you know taking it face value has ever come up with that idea all this fluffy

32:51

Neo -evangelicalism we have in the world today has not accurately represented the biblical text

32:58

God is about God and God's kingdom is about God's kingdom

33:04

It's not about us It's all about him. And so If you have the idea

33:15

The God should be fixes maybe he is fixing it What would judgment look like in other words?

33:22

What an amazing thing that we have so many people in our society that think God is under obligation To keep us safe and Prosperous and healthy and give us plenty of food

33:38

All these blessings are supposed to come from God on a people who do what on a people who do what?

33:49

Has anything been done about Planned Parenthood since the movies came out demonstrating that they make the Nazis look like amateurs

33:57

Will anything be done? No How about how about just that whole murdering unborn children thing

34:09

Going right on How about our love of every form of sexual debauchery?

34:17

How about we just redefine what God defined as marriage and now extend it to multiple people and the same -sex couples and all that kind of stuff look at the lists of vices and sins that the

34:32

Bible says bring God's judgment and wrath upon anyone then go to your local college campus and You tell me

34:43

What basis anyone has to say that God is under any obligation to do anything other?

34:51

Than to bring judgment upon Western civilization as a whole. Sorry, but as I mentioned

35:00

I recently had to Had to read the blessing and cursing passages in Deuteronomy from the pulpit

35:12

If you want to see how serious God is about this stuff read Deuteronomy 26 and following just Read on through the end.

35:22

It may trouble you greatly should anyways I don't know how anybody can read that and not be troubled

35:29

Not be made to think not to me to consider their own ways. I certainly makes me consider mine in any any anyway

35:42

That wasn't I don't think that's what the Daily News was saying I think they were mocking people who think that God could do anything at all

35:50

To think that prayers could do anything at all. They think well, they are praying to their God. It's all it's it's government

35:57

Government's the answer to everything Communists are that way. I mean the government the state is the all -in -all for communists and I'm just gonna be straight out and say it our nation is has been taken over by communists

36:10

They snuck in changed their name Hired an advertising firm took over the educational system dumbed everybody down now, they're in charge pretty simple and They're praying to their

36:24

God. Their God is the state and the state can fix everything So the state can end the gun scourge by just simply can't have them anymore disarm everybody

36:35

Yeah, and it really goes against everybody sort of sitting right sitting around right now common sense would be you know

36:42

We might need to defend ourselves these these people coming after us and the state says Trust us

36:49

We'll take care of you Yeah, I I like the the thing 9 -eleven state -sponsored prayer line

36:58

You know 9 -1 -1 call 9 -1 -1 state -sponsored prayer line. I love have

37:05

I mentioned I love Roy Busty and And I thank you very much for my love what

37:17

If I stick my pinky out if I try to do the devil's thingy there I'm gonna spill the tea all over myself and somebody will say it's just punishment too.

37:25

So come on be nice to me I'm not that bad All right There you go

37:34

I'm turning off the God isn't fixing this because God doesn't need to fix this Right before I left the house to come down here.

37:44

I'm flying out in the morning again Folks in st. Charles Hope you'll come out.

37:51

Um, I plan on playing You know, for example, I'll play

37:57

Graham Codrington's opening statement We're gonna be looking carefully at all the key texts and doing a lot of answer questions and answers

38:07

Things like that back better be careful if we have time might even do some role -playing. No That would be interesting

38:15

Um, so the angel just asked Roy bus isn't that Latin for Satan Yeah I'm gonna have to go back

38:31

We might need to just get some clips of Dana Carvey the church lady maybe it's

38:39

Yes There weren't when we started there were a number of comments about my

38:47

Beautiful new Fuji sweater Bright coogies are supposed to be bright and I will actually be wearing this in st.

38:57

Charles as well. Just so people know so they're prepared. That's actually a tradition But you put the you put the microphone down, huh?

39:06

wisdom wisdom after all these years finally instead of go for it, buddy, it's

39:17

Yeah, yeah, I hear you I hear you I Love my

39:22

Coogee sweaters. I love colorful stuff. And this one is perfect for Phoenix. It is incredibly light.

39:28

It really is I'm not Sweating right? It's this would not work in Northern climes because there's almost nothing to it.

39:37

It's really really super comfortable. Love it. Love it one of those eBay

39:43

Snipes Don't way to get him anymore. I don't make him there right as I was coming down here. I Saw an article and I just have to look at it.

39:55

And if we have to go a little long, we'll see We'll see how this works. I still want to get to the Copan thing if I can't

40:06

But this was on the gospel coalition blog which made me go Huh?

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How did this get on the gospel coalition blog? Dated today December 3rd and This text was taken from same -sex attraction and the church the surprising plausibility of the celibate life by Ed Shaw from InterVarsity All right.

40:31

I'm troubled by this. Here's here's what's up I was recently on a panel talking about same -sex attraction in a large

40:37

Christian conference One of the questions I was asked was a thinly veiled version of the one question many Christian parents Most want to ask me how can

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I stop my children from being same -sex attracted or as no one has really had the courage to put

40:49

It how can I stop my child from becoming like you? Let me just stop I Could never

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Begin to think of what a tragedy it would be to have a same -sex attracted child.

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I understand That there are Christians who experience same -sex attraction I understand that I Don't deny that.

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I'm not one of those people. It says. Oh, no. No. No, it's It's all No one experiences that naturally.

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I do not think the majority of homosexuals Experience same -sex attraction naturally

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I do think the vast majority has some experience in their life that damaged their sexuality.

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Of course, we all have a damaged sexuality every single one of us We live in a fallen world we've all been exposed to things that have damaged our sexuality whether you're heterosexual or Whether you experience same -sex attraction but I Don't see how anyone can argue from a

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Christian perspective that same -sex attraction is not in and of itself a

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Disordered thing the Pope got the terminology right on that by the way It's disordered

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It's not natural It is not it is not appropriate

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The desire itself is a desire for an inappropriate thing heterosexual attraction is

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How God made men and women that's how the species continues and It can be perverted

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It can be experienced in excess But it is still a natural attraction similar to gluttony

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Eating is a natural thing. Not eating is not a natural thing Eating humans is a very unnatural thing.

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Okay, but you can have a disorder a excessive desire for food that becomes gluttony

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But a man is to be naturally attracted to a woman not to a man and If you experience that Attraction it is a disordered thing.

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It's not a natural thing. It is not a good thing in and of itself and I fear that a lot of folks are abandoning this

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I'm not sure why I'm not sure what the What the reasons would be other than to maybe look more open -minded or something.

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I don't know but it seems like a lot of folks are Are Grabbing hold the idea that In reality same -sex attraction is a

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Natural thing for certain people just as heterosexual attraction is for others and therefore it's a morally neutral thing

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It's just the way they are it just so happens that God says don't act on that one But you can't act on this one, but they're both natural

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And I don't think that follows Now what that means is I believe that a

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Christian who experiences same -sex attraction needs to realize that the desire is sinful as well as the action and Should continuously not only avoid the action out of love for God and his ways

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But pray that God would change the orientation and the desires as well

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And I know there are people say I've prayed I've prayed I've prayed I've prayed that's not been my experience

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I Can't enter into that. I don't know but As I understand what first Corinthians 6 is saying when it says such were some of you there is a supernatural power of God to change the human heart so with that said

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I Continue with the article it's revealing question number of times I've been asked it always in roundabout ways demonstrates

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How great a fear it is for many Christian parents to raise a child who might be sexually attracted their own sex

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It's not something they want to have to share in the Christmas letter in years to come either openly or by what's clearly left unsaid

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The great hope is that they'll be able to write of happy marriages numerous grandchildren continued involvement in a good evangelical church

45:18

They don't want to have to say instead a child is gay that there won't be any Grandchildren at least not in the conventional way and that their son or daughter is now part of some

45:27

LGBT affirming church if any church at all What they want from me is a few simple steps they can take to stop that from happening ban their young son from playing with his sister's dollhouse and Discourage that sister from playing football when she's older then

45:40

Subtitle tragic connection why the paranoia a word also used by a Christian parent asking me this question

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It's because I by the way paranoia That's not paranoia

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That's not paranoia at all. You're not paranoid if you want your child to experience a meaningful human sexual existence

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It's not paranoia to be able to want grandchildren. It's not paranoia to want to have a son -in -law or a daughter -in -law

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It's because far too often the evangelical church godliness is

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Heterosexuality and no one can grasp how same -sex attraction and godliness could exist together wrong

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Wrong. I'm sorry Godliness is not heterosexuality

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But homosexuality cannot be godly heterosexuality can be godly or ungodly but Only a heterosexual married relationship can be godly never a homosexual married relationship or any

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Homosexual orientation activity at all. It can't be godly. It is fundamentally disordered

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So, I don't know, you know if he's saying well people are just willing to allow

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Their children as long as they're not off they've done they've not spiraled off into just insane evil and They're just a good heterosexual

47:22

Person with kids then they're godly. Okay, if that's what he's talking about, then I would agree.

47:28

That's not enough to be godly But given the context we're in right now that that that's not the issue

47:36

The context we're in right now is people trying to say you can Make homosexuality a godly thing and no one can grasp how same -sex attraction and godliness could exist together

47:51

They can't exist together as long as the one is leading a person to deny and reject the other

48:00

Not embrace it Not embrace it and allow it to be self -identifying. So if you want your children to be godly you must do all you can to ensure they're heterosexual and Obviously if your child starts experiencing same -sex attraction, you must do all you can to change that as quickly as you can

48:18

I have a feeling a lot of these folks Have jumped on the there can't be any change bandwagon that has become the new

48:26

Have you noticed Bob Gagnon has been speaking against that movement recently? I guess

48:32

I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet But I guess he just gave a paper at ETS on let's not throw reparative therapy under the bus

48:45

All this explains how much time effort money some churches have invested in counseling that promises a permanent change in someone's sexuality

48:51

Many same -sex attracted children of evangelical parents have been signed up for Reparative therapy or sent off on residential courses that will heal them of their same -sex attraction

48:59

Often the children sometimes the parents have then given up on evangelical Christianity when these attempts have failed if godliness is heterosexuality

49:07

What's the point of trying to be a Christian when you're not a heterosexual? Well, there are a boatload a boatload of Of presuppositions packed into that it sounds like and this wouldn't shock me wouldn't shock me that any any

49:27

Christian publisher Would publish something now that would that would be in any way positive toward homosexuality

49:34

I can't think of a one that that hasn't shown a willingness to do something like that but is the statement here that There should not be

49:45

Residential courses there should not be counseling that they always fail Is that the assertion being made sort of smuggled in there, isn't it and You better not do that because then they'll just give up on evangelical

49:58

Christianity well, I My theology tells me that if someone gives up on their faith that tells me something about where they were to begin with Maybe that's not where yours comes from.

50:12

And if you've got a theology Where the worst thing in the world is if someone abandons the faith

50:20

I think it's probably been a decade now since I preached those sermons, but they're still I think they're still prominently displayed at the

50:28

PRBC website, but of course that hasn't been touched and who knows how long but I preached some sermons

50:38

And these the title was the blessing of apostasy The blessing of apostasy and it was out of first John chapter 2 and the point was you don't want hypocritical unbelievers staying in your church

50:59

That's they went out from us. So it might be demonstrated. They were not truly of us there was a purpose and it was a good purpose and Unless you have a sub biblical view of what the church is supposed to be

51:14

Where God is worshipped in purity and holiness If you've got some other perspective

51:23

Then You're gonna misunderstand a lot of things and here's part of it.

51:31

Well, they might give up on evangelical Christianity If what you're saying is they might give up on the faith

51:38

Then they've never actually embraced the faith in the first place right No, not for most folks.

51:47

What's the point of trying to be a Christian when you're not a heterosexual? Well, if God has changed your heart

51:58

Then The only thing I can understand why God would allow

52:03

One of his children to continue experiencing same -sex attraction. Was that this person needs to be constantly on the battle line fighting against Their sinful nature.

52:16

It's just something they can never ever Look away from it's that they've got to be focused upon it constantly that for some reason and God's purposes

52:25

Maybe the people to whom they're going to they're gonna minister something coming up in their life.

52:30

I I'm not God. I don't know but that's the only reason I can think of as As to why

52:37

God would allow that because God can change someone's heart unless you're gonna say can't It's tragic.

52:45

This link has been made in people's minds, but I understand why it's a link That's often been at the forefront of my mind to have heterosexuality is godliness, which

52:52

I reject The big change that that's most needed in my life is for me to become heterosexual

52:58

So I've prayed hard and searched hard for an effective antidote to my same -sex attraction The pursuit of holiness has nearly always equaled the pursuit of heterosexuality for me

53:07

Are you saying that that is wrong? Is this individual saying sounds like this individual saying

53:14

I've given up The hope that God can actually change my desires

53:22

I've given up on that and so now I'm gonna remain celibate but I Am going to say that my disordered desires are the way

53:36

God intends me To be I just can't act on them sort of like a

53:45

Penance type thing or something you have to do to I don't know then under the subtitle flabbergasted and refreshed

53:55

So I was helped enormously, hopefully like everybody else listening by the reply of another panel member that conference a heterosexual minister

54:01

He runs his church's support group for same -sex attracted church members. He's also the married father of two sons

54:07

He said something like this We most of all want our boys to grow up as godly and mature Christians some of those godly and mature

54:13

Christians We know are same -sex attracted so why should we be so afraid of them growing up as same -sex attracted because It's disordered.

54:29

I was flabbergasted by this reply. So am I It finally blew apart my wrong presumption that same -sex attraction and godliness like oil and water don't ever mix

54:40

You want to bring them that close and And say that this is a godly thing.

54:48

I Don't think that's what you're trying to do. But have you realized how close that is? It made me recall that some of those godly people that I've ever known have also experienced same -sex attraction

54:58

In fact, one of the Christian leaders I most respect as godly has been made so through his truck his struggle

55:04

With same -sex attraction sounds like his struggle against same -sex attraction I Just never heard the link made so clearly in such a moving way in context

55:14

But that panel member is a parent whose main ambition for his children is the right one godliness not heterosexuality see

55:23

Everything about this is wrong. It's just it's it's Disordered it's standing on the wrong foundation looking backwards through a mirror

55:33

I'm sure it doesn't mean he's praying his boys will grow up to be same -sex attracted But his reply showed that he has what we should all care about in our response to the gospel of grace

55:42

Christ likeness Being like Jesus is the true biblical definition of godliness Right being like Jesus is the true biblical definition of godliness

55:52

But what does that have to do with same -sex attraction? What if you experience it you resist it?

56:02

You don't become comfortable with it. You don't become friendly with it You don't embrace the idea that it's it's it's just the way

56:10

I am And I think a lot of people are beginning to embrace that idea because they don't want the lifelong struggle

56:17

They don't want the lifelong battle so let's just say that It's not that central.

56:24

In fact, let's just go ahead and allow it to define us As to who we are.

56:34

I don't I don't know how Stuff is is vetted

56:45

For the gospel coalition blog, so I can't I can't hold everybody accountable for everything it appears there but I'm seeing some stuff there.

56:55

It makes me go. Yeah recently this keeps it warm, but not so hot that it burns your

57:04

Actually helps the helps the bro Mm -hmm That's good stuff or I drink it the more

57:12

I like it Thankfully, I only have an old -style teapot at home and it takes forever to Try to be drinking it all the time.

57:21

All right Move this over here one last thing here, um probably would have spent more time on this if if we weren't

57:34

Right before a travel day, but I mentioned that There was an article that was

57:45

Posted November 30th Does regeneration precede faith apparently not by Paul Copin.

57:58

It's fairly short Um There are only

58:05

Five notes in it. I'll be perfectly honest with you.

58:11

I do not get the feeling that the author has spent a

58:20

Great deal of time with reformed writing

58:26

My understanding is that dr. Copin's Circle of influence is more the

58:31

William Lane Craig area Definitely not a presuppositional reformed perspective type thing there and So what

58:47

Surprised me was that there was really no interaction both of the reformed perspective as well as the primary reformed texts and the primary reformed arguments instead you

59:04

Had well regeneration precedes faith. This affirmation is one that many the reformed tradition take as axiomatic

59:11

See, I would even disagree with that. We prove it scripturally. It's not an axiom that you bring to The text it's derived from exegesis and from systematic theology

59:23

Why does regeneration precede faith? Well there are certain fundamental things that come before this and That is we have a sovereign decree on God's part we have man's deadness and sin we have an unconditional election of God I Don't think dr.

59:43

Copin would necessarily agree with almost any of those in their full reformed expressions

59:50

When you get to that I Which is generally where this comes from The issues with irresistible grace is just simply the assertion

01:00:01

That when God chooses to regenerate his elect He does so without dependence upon them

01:00:08

That is that he has the power and ability To regenerate which is not the same thing as just a general salvific term regeneration is a specific term

01:00:20

It refers to a specific action. It's not the same thing as adoption It's not the same thing as glorification.

01:00:26

It's not the same thing as forgiveness It is related to all of them, but how it is related to all of them is

01:00:35

What's up for a grab here and the assertion is that God regenerates so that we can have spiritual life and that repentance and And saving abiding faith our functions of a spiritually living person not a spiritually dead person and So if you're going to address this you're going to have to address reformed understanding of the nature of man

01:01:11

Deadness and sin you're gonna have to deal with Romans chapter 8 Not just the golden chain

01:01:20

Though somewhat relevant But to earlier in the chapter where it is said that those who record in the flesh

01:01:27

Cannot do what is pleasing to God. I can't do it or Jesus statements

01:01:35

Reason you don't hear me is because you do not belong to God those belong to God hear my voice there's

01:01:42

No one can come to me Unless the father who sent me draws him and I'll raise him up blessing all these statements of inability incapacity on man's part due to his fallen nature they have to be taken into consideration then the texts that describe both repentance and faith as The gifts of God to his elect people need to be brought in consideration as well.

01:02:08

Why would it have to be a gift? Why would have to be why is the spirit so often connected with it?

01:02:15

Why did why can Paul just in passing say it has been given to you not only to believe in him But to suffer in his in his for his sake

01:02:23

Philippians 129. What do you mean? It's been given to to believe Why can

01:02:28

Peter talk about to those who've received a like precious faith? Is that just the Christian faith as a whole or faith itself

01:02:38

Why is faith included in Ephesians chapter 2 that not yourselves as a gift of God that gift is

01:02:45

Wrapping up everything in the preceding section The grace the salvation and the faith so faith is described as a gift

01:02:55

God's kindness leads you to repentance the gift of repentance and Then you have these radical descriptions of what regeneration actually is the taking out the heart of stone the giving a heart of flesh

01:03:07

The wind blowing across the valley of the dry bones you have there's the dry bones can't put themselves together

01:03:13

Hearts of stone do not choose to become hearts of flesh God's initiative must come first and it must be a powerful and effective initiative not just a well,

01:03:25

I'm gonna bring everybody to a moral neutral point then it's up to them prevenient grace type of Duct -tape to try to hold a synergistic system together.

01:03:35

You just can't find that in Scripture Yeah, you have to make that up and read it in Problem is all of that material in regards to the importance of Well the whole foundation

01:03:57

The the fact that for example, well, we've we've mentioned it before Let me just you know, actually

01:04:06

I turned that off didn't I? I'm gonna give this to you. If you want it you you may not want it.

01:04:13

It's up to you but I've mentioned before This text and I'm gonna blow it up So it's nice and big because that's what you can do.

01:04:28

And I like large fonts Whoever first John 5 one whoever believes that Jesus.

01:04:35

Well, let's just go over the Greek Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ Has been born from God and this last

01:04:47

Section here is very very interesting and whoever Loves and the

01:04:52

New American Standard says the father loves the child born of him But you'll notice the word father is not found here anywhere

01:05:00

It's literally the begetting one and all the ones loving the begetting one loves also the one

01:05:06

Begotten having been begotten from him You can see why most translations don't bother trying to be overly literal at that particular point in time

01:05:16

Anyway, here's here's the key right here Everyone believing that Jesus is the

01:05:22

Christ has been born from God now Elsewhere in first John.

01:05:31

In fact, I believe it's for Yeah, four seven

01:05:45

Look at this everyone loving

01:05:53

Has been born from God Well text is beloved.

01:06:00

Let us love one another for love is from God and everyone who loves is born of God and Is knowing

01:06:05

God literally? So you have pass with ha agapone

01:06:11

This is the same type of construction. We have John 3 16 Everyone believing

01:06:20

Here's everyone loving So if you're as a Christian if you're experiencing

01:06:25

Christian love The reason is because you have been born from God. It's not you don't become born from God by showing perfect Christian love

01:06:37

In fact the biblical teaching would be you can't do that. Your heart is a heart of stone. You're a rebel

01:06:42

You're dead in your sins trespasses the sins So the point is that the use of This term right here get get a tie

01:06:58

You'll notice down below it's I'd be probably can't see it on the screen. It's pretty small and I can't blow those fun Well, yes, I can I'm doing doing let's see what that does.

01:07:05

Yeah, look at that. I Don't tell the cordons what it can and cannot do Um, let me see if I can bring that up a little bit so it gets a little bit bigger.

01:07:16

Oh, very good so get get a tie You see that the parsing on the right hands?

01:07:23

Well, it's on both sides Third singular perfect perfect passive so for those of you know

01:07:36

Greek you see the Epson reduplication so on so forth the sign of the

01:07:42

Perfect without getting into a lot of detail here when you have

01:07:51

The perfect together with and here is a participle that is a

01:07:58

Since it has the article. It's functioning primarily as a substantive but participles are those wonderful things that have they're a mixture of noun and verb together and This is a present active functioning as a substantive everyone loving so when you have

01:08:24

Participle together with a perfect finite verb as you have here there is a relationship between the actions and What's being said here is if you are loving present tense, right?

01:08:38

If this is you know, this is how we demonstrate that we were walking in the light We love the brethren so on so forth if that love is a reality in your life

01:08:47

It's because you have been born from God. It is not what makes you become born from God now

01:08:56

Why do I show it to you? well Because I think if I recall correctly and I'm just I didn't have time to look at this but it's in chapter 2

01:09:07

And You do maybe somebody in channel could pop it up faster than I could find it but Musical interlude there's also a reference in chapter 2

01:09:32

Is it right there Well, no, it's not

01:09:39

That I should have just looked up born And I would have been able to find it faster than just scanning through it like this

01:09:50

But there's a parallel text in chapter 2 as well that refers to being born

01:09:57

So I'm just gonna go back to 4 4 9 Was 4 9 we're at yes

01:10:09

Wasn't 4 9 where was it 4 7? Yes, there it is. I Wonder if I could do this search for inflected

01:10:21

It didn't like that It's not operating.

01:10:29

Anyway running out of time here There is there's another parallel passage earlier in first John that I could have jumped to if I had bothered to look at my notes real quick Point is when you look at first John 5 1

01:10:42

Whoever whoever believes Jesus the Christ born from God Here once again, here is your again a tie and here is your pass ha instead of loving

01:10:51

It's believing so instead of agapone. It's pistew on But it's a direct parallel direct parallel So if John is consistent

01:11:05

Then what is coming first here being born from God? And that is why if you are believing that Jesus is the

01:11:14

Christ if you have a true abiding Lasting True faith that Jesus is the

01:11:22

Christ. It's because you have been born from God It's not what caused you to be born from God is because you have been born from God Now I would think

01:11:33

That if you're going to write an article against The Reformed tradition at this point

01:11:42

That you might want to address the foundational reasons and then some of the texts that we utilize about the deadness of man incapacity of man to believe

01:11:55

John 8 John 6 first John 5 1 Philippians 1 29

01:12:03

You might want to maybe interact with some of those and say this is why this cannot be or this is why they're wrong

01:12:11

To look at it that way or something along those lines might might be the way first John 2 29. Thank you

01:12:18

RK in channel. How did I miss it? Because it was I I went too far into first John 2 Yes, okay

01:12:26

Throw it up there real quick first John 2 29 Pasha point on the kind of Sunan X out to get get a tie.

01:12:36

There is again a tie There is your Pasha point on here. It is everyone doing Everyone doing righteousness has been born from him.

01:12:44

So that's even clearer than for Because are you gonna say that by doing righteousness you cause yourself to be born?

01:12:54

Well, there are works righteousness folks that would say that but hopefully Dr. Copan would not say that so John is very very consistent.

01:13:01

Thank you For the channel help there. All right, so brief response there

01:13:09

III No reform person who knows their stuff is going to be overly Troubled by the article, but I just struck me that the article didn't seem to indicate that dr.

01:13:20

Copan really Was meaning to interact with where we're actually coming from which is

01:13:26

Unfortunately regular we covered a bunch of stuff today, didn't we? We certainly did and we did so in Coogee style

01:13:34

What's that? I need to keep my fingers like this.

01:13:44

Oh man Every twitch now is gonna be like that Yeah Yeah, no,

01:13:52

I'm not gonna go like that I'm get here snap take a picture of you going like that and go see that's what's really going on Anyway, we've covered a lot today.

01:14:02

Thanks for watching dividing lines I hope to see a bunch of you in st. Charles over the weekend and Lord willing.