Is Mental Illness a Myth?

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If you talk about Satan's schemes and some of the most successful schemes that he's ever had psychology is probably by far in a way like one of the

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01:45

Welcome to Bible bash where we aim to equip the Saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions You're not allowed to ask for your host

01:52

Harrison Kerrigan pastor Tim mullet and today. We'll answer the age -old question is Mental illness a myth now

01:59

This is this might be the one that maybe a lot of Christians They hear that question and they're like, of course, it's real.

02:07

What are you talking about? Are you crazy? Right, but I think the I think This is sort of the issue that we have that we're going to end up having to address

02:17

Probably on the front end of this episode is just how much this type of Psychological ideology has really infiltrated the church, right

02:27

Tim, right? Yeah, I mean it's really remarkable when you think about like this category of mental illness in general

02:35

Because it is a category that is distinct from you know, what you might describe as biological illness

02:41

So the whole idea of mental illness is that you know, just as the body can get sick

02:47

So also the mind can get sick and you know when you think about that assumption in general, it's a fairly absurd assumption and you know most people don't appreciate how absurd this assumption actually is and this kind of goes to your comment that it's

03:04

I mean the the idea of mental illness has been So pervasive in our society and so frequently taught

03:11

It's the air we breathe right now and you know, many people just haven't stopped to think about what they're actually being asked to accept and you know if they just did a little bit of research into this kind of topic and just thought about what they're being asked to Accept they might find that like this this idea is fairly preposterous.

03:32

It's a very counterintuitive and You know, why have we swallowed so much of this idea in general?

03:40

So, you know, but as it goes that this is the standard state of affair this is the air you breathe and you know, there's no easier way to Get you know, quote -unquote

03:50

Christians mad at you than to question, you know The legitimacy of any of these, you know

03:57

DSM 5 mental illnesses that are out there So with that being said, what would your answer to the question be is mental illness a myth?

04:07

Well, yeah, I mean, it's a it's a fantastical fairy tale That is born out of materialism.

04:14

It's a myth. It's it's worse than a myth It's like a it's a it's a fairy tale man.

04:19

Like it's just Like, you know if you for you to believe in mental illness you have to essentially believe in magic it's like it's that bad so like meaning meaning like so like Like what's happening here is that there's just profound

04:39

Category errors that are being made as it relates to this subject and it's so convoluted that You know what you're being asked to believe is multiple

04:49

Contradictory Illogical things all at once even to make sense of what is actually being argued

04:55

So, you know at a popular level what's actually happening, you know When you think about what's happening at a popular level is that when you talk about mental illness?

05:04

People immediately think brain problem, right? Mm -hmm. Yeah, but then like that's not really what mental illness is.

05:11

Okay? Okay, so what is it? I mean so like if you have a normal brain problem

05:16

That'd be like Alzheimer's or dementia or something like that. That would be a brain problem That would be where your brain is deteriorating

05:22

You can do a brain scan and you can see that this brain is abnormal and that way and there's there's objective evidence of pathology

05:29

There's objective tissue damage and so like traditional like medicine is going to deal with pathology.

05:35

It's going to deal with Tissue damage or malfunction. There's some kind of physical damage is what you're saying, right?

05:41

Yeah, so if I break my leg I go to the doctor They're gonna be able to run a test and they're gonna show that my leg is broken if that makes sense, right?

05:49

Yeah, right. So my leg is broken like they're gonna be able to run a test and see hey look Here's your x -ray and this shows that your leg is broken and it's cracked here.

05:56

And you know, this is the solution you know if you have cancer they're gonna be able to run a series of tests that show that you have an

06:01

Overproduction of cells and they're gonna be able to demonstrate that through objective test so like the whole idea of mental illness was that Like this is a category distinct from biological illness, like that's what the whole idea of mental illness is it's a category that's distinct from Biological illness that's resulting from pathology.

06:23

So you come up with like what the psychologist did it was very clever is that they've kind of their pseudoscientific kind of endeavor and what they've done is they've like attached themselves on to the medical community like a parasite and And that's what they do like they're like a leech, you know sucking at the

06:42

You know, the the medical community is a host, you know in that way but then feeding off the life force of Yeah, so what they've done is they've attached themselves to that and then they began to Package all of their language in the language of medical disorder

06:57

So all of your psychological labels are packaged in this like language of medical disorder. So you have obsessive compulsive disorder you have

07:06

You have a general anxiety disorder general anxiety disorder, right? You have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, right?

07:13

so all of it is language labeled in this language of or disorder and And but then like the whole idea was though it started as a discipline distinct from medicine

07:24

Meant meaning that you know traditional medicine deals with pathology, you know Psychology is not dealing with pathology.

07:32

It's dealing. It's not dealing with organic illness It's dealing with like this nebulous category of mental illness now what's happened in the mind of many people is that because we're so Accustomed to using medical language to describe mental disorders now in in people's minds.

07:46

They just assume that there's some biological Etiology behind mental illness, right assume that like there's there's some kind of organic problem.

07:55

There's essentially it's a brain problem Some sort and so, you know half the time what you're having is you're having people who are

08:02

Treating this as if it's an organic problem With no evidence behind that. It's just that's just the air you breathe this assumption

08:09

There's this is a mental disorder and what do you not understand? It's a brain problem man

08:14

Like are you anti science, you know anti medicine is so like the drugs are packaged as medicine the the the the disorders, you know are packaged as They're packaged as like, you know medical problems in the same kind of language and so half the time people think okay

08:31

This is a biological problem here and the other half of the time you you have people talking about Like it as it actually is is that you know, you witness a terrible event and then your brain gets sick, right?

08:44

Right. Yeah, and so like meaning you have some kind of glitch in the program You have some kind of glitch in your thoughts and in so, you know, you have to ask yourself

08:54

What realm are we in? Like what are we even saying right now? Right, like are we in like a biological medical realm?

09:01

Are we in this magical? materialistic brain sickness

09:06

Thought sickness kind of realm and like when you think about how the categories actually work

09:12

These are the labels that are given once all the medical tests run empty and this is not some sort of organic problem this is a different category a problem that is

09:20

Packaged in similar language as the other and then when you step back and you think about what's actually happening You realize that this is like magical fairy tale kind of nonsense, you know

09:30

So like just let me give you an example. So like imagine what you're being asked to believe in Like treating this as if it's an illness what you're being asked to believe is that like let's say you

09:41

Witness with your eyes a wreck, right? So you watch a wreck happen and what you're being asked to believe is the act of you viewing that wreck somehow

09:52

Like results in you having a broken leg or something. Does that make sense makes complete total 100 % sense

10:03

Now I know you're like I actually had that happen to me the other day You've watched a traumatic event and then your leg snapped instantaneously.

10:11

Yeah. I mean it was wild I've never seen that before. Yeah, so but that's what you're being So like with traditional medicine, you know, like you you get hit by a baseball bat your leg breaks

10:21

There's there's some like cause right? There's some physical cause that's going to result in this physical problem, right?

10:29

So what you're being asked to believe as it relates to you know This idea of mental illness is that somehow like if you see like if you're treated poorly you see terrible things

10:38

It's like somehow like you're All of a sudden you are left with some sort of organic problem as the result of that and it's just like this is magic

10:47

This is a fairy tale. This is this is not logical. This is not reasonable. This is not rational

10:53

This is not the way things actually work. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Yeah Yeah, and and I think it

10:58

I think it's really important that people understand you've said this already but I want to restate it because I see people do this all the time where they try and They try and take what you're saying and brush it completely aside by by Making some sort of you know

11:17

By posing some sort of question. That's really not a question Where they basically say oh, so you don't believe that, you know, there can be like Damage to the brain or something along those lines like oh, you're not by witnessing a dramatic event.

11:33

I don't write And what I what I don't think people really understand is that you know with these various sort of sorts of like disorders as they're often referred to as Those are when all of the physical tests have shown nothing

11:53

It's biologically wrong with right, right. There's nothing wrong with them There's there's no physical reason for them to be experiencing what they're experiencing there's no

12:05

You know, there's no gland Dysfunction, there's no physical tissue damage, you know, there's no decaying of the brain nothing nothing like that There's zero percent

12:17

Physical damage in these situations. And so so when you get these sort of when you get into like the sort of depression

12:26

Anxiety PTSD sort of realm when you get into those areas you have officially left the you or you've officially exhausted the

12:38

Potential for this to be some sort of yeah For it to be some sort of physical ailment with you.

12:46

You've completely left that behind So so I think people need to understand that when we're having this conversation

12:54

We're past all that already No one no one is saying those things don't exist because obviously, you know, like obviously the brain can get damaged

13:03

I mean, you know, you you know, I'm a I'm a football fan and Even though we did the episode where we condemned all football fans

13:14

I'm still processing that one I guess but Unrepentant. Yeah But you know one of the one of the things that has been a really big

13:24

Controversy over the last decade or so and in the sport is What?

13:31

Basically like the results of playing football for long extended periods of time and basically, you know, you have you end up getting various types of Long -term brain damage done to you, right?

13:44

But but the issue is with those things they they can scan the brain and see

13:50

That there's a difference and they can see that there is damage that that is an sufficient explanation for the change in behavior the change in mental capability the

14:04

Change in physical capability as well. And so so obvious so obviously

14:09

Like there can be damage to the brain. I mean, it's a physical Object organ, right?

14:16

Yeah. Yeah, and and so obviously there can be damage to it But then when we're getting into this conversation when we're talking about Really?

14:22

What are what you and I would describe and the Bible would describe as moral categories

14:28

We have left all of that completely behind. Well, that's the whole thing with yeah What people don't understand is that these

14:35

DSM labels? They're just simple description descriptions of thought Behaviors and emotions that people might experience.

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So that's all they are. They're descriptions of behavior But then the problem is that they're packaged in medical language and it makes people think that there's some kind of medical

14:51

Problem, but some kind of biological problem undergirding this right, but this is just a simple description of behavior

14:57

So you can think about any of these, you know major depressive disorder or general anxiety disorder, whatever

15:02

That sounds like a medical problem because they they've worked the system to label it like because it's how it because it's how you would name any other sort of Disorder right, right.

15:13

It's how you would describe it. Yeah. So what they've done is what's happening Is you just have to like a clash of worldviews here?

15:20

So psychology basically is a competing worldview with the Bible and people don't realize this but this this is how it started you know

15:27

Freud set out to Essentially provide a Darwinian Materialistic explanation for human behavior that would be a competing explanation with the

15:37

Bible So it used to be that people would go and you know, if they have a problem of thought behavior or emotions

15:43

You know motions kind of a recent word, but if they have a you know, problem of thoughts behavior affections feelings

15:48

They would go and talk to a pastor But then you know psychology packaged itself as I can alternative to soul care in that way

15:56

And it was a materialistic alternative. And so we have two different presuppositions here that are undergirding these various projects

16:03

And so, you know from biblical worldview what you believe is that like we have souls, right? We're moral beings

16:08

We're created in the image of God and all of our problems are not since essentially material like we're not materialist as Christians We're not like we believe that like we have heart right?

16:19

It's not just the organ that pumps blood We have an inner man and our problems are fundamentally moral We have sin problems and could we have our will is tied in bondage to sin so like our starting point is

16:30

I'm totally depraved and I'm a moral being and Everything can't be reduced to the physical.

16:36

That's my starting point. That's the Bible starting point is unashamedly the Bible starting point and so then

16:42

The Darwinian framework on the other side is their starting point is materialism. It's it's a brute materialism

16:49

Okay, and so what that means is that everything has to be a material cause in their worldview

16:56

Like that's the way it is. Yeah, right. So you look at human beings With a materialistic worldview and what you what you think is like we're just complex machines man

17:07

Like that's how we are. We're complex machines And so if we're complex machines and you see one human being curled up in a ball after He witnessed a traumatic event, right?

17:19

Curled up in a ball and refuses to move on with his life and you know Another human being witnessed the same event and didn't behave that way, right?

17:29

So you look at a general population 80 % of them don't curl up in a ball 20 % do Then you're looking at that 20 % and you're saying

17:38

Well, it must be there must be something structurally wrong with them. Does that make sense?

17:44

Mm -hmm. It has to be something structurally wrong with them because all they are is a computer So it must be a hardware problem here.

17:50

Does that make sense? Yeah, like it must be a glitch and like it must be a hardware problem. We need to fix something, right?

17:56

They must like it must be like so the preset position that undergirds it It must be some sort of brain problem because we know that brain controls all that stuff, right?

18:04

Mm -hmm. So you're looking at that you say it must be a brain problem The problem is that like nothing none of our science can prove it's a brain problem

18:13

We're just trusting by faith that it must be because we have it we put on the materialistic lens, does that make sense?

18:20

Yeah, yeah, and so you see like so you see certain people are more prone to depression Well, it must be genetic man, you know, right?

18:27

It can't be that they've been trained by their parents to be, you know Worry warts or you know depressed or you know have no joy in their life

18:35

It must be a structural problem. And so what's happening is like the whole field of mental illness is

18:42

It's like a it's basically a competing Field to traditional medicine.

18:49

It's like a it's another field That's essentially trying to observe people and and answer the question.

18:54

Well, why do they do what they do? Right. So why are they acting the way they're acting and so when you see any deviation from normal, right?

19:01

So you have normal and you have a deviation One of those deviations could be like general anxiety disorder

19:07

Another could be major depressive disorder. Another could be bipolar disorder. Now that could be obsessive -compulsive disorder

19:12

These are all deviations from normal normal people don't act like that way They don't act that way and it must be a glitch.

19:18

So it must be a material cause that's undergirding this That's the assumption that's required to do business

19:24

And so then you look at that and you say it must be something wrong with them structurally Whereas the Bible would say we're moral made in the image of God our mind or will emotions.

19:33

It's all affected by sin So I look at someone who is engaging in behaviors that the

19:38

Bible says Are wrong and I'm gonna think it they have a heart problem The material is gonna think they have a biology problem now

19:47

It doesn't matter that they don't know what that biological problem is. Does that make sense?

19:53

Yeah, yeah, but explain it a little bit for us. It doesn't matter if they know or not they trust by faith

19:59

There must be one so even if we haven't discovered what it is yet They trust by faith.

20:06

It has to be some sort of structural problem We haven't come up with the answer to yet And then the only solutions that are gonna fix it are gonna be material solutions like drugs, right?

20:17

Right, so we may not know what it is yet, right? But we know that all we are is just a complicated machine

20:24

And so whatever is happening there you have a deviation from normal They don't want to suffer from this thing, right you package it all in the language of illness

20:33

It's assumed to be a biological problem And then when you say it over and over and over again, right you say it over and over and over and over again

20:43

They're suffering from depression. They're suffering from anxiety, you know They're suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder.

20:50

You say it over and over and over again, right? It's They're suffering from mental illness and then people they've just been brainwashed to not even question what they're being asked to believe here

21:01

Right, right and so like they're being asked to believe that Fundamentally, all we are is matter in a complicated complex machines and that every problem is structural

21:13

And so all of these things like so the Bible has nothing to say to any of these things like you can

21:18

You can say all day long the fruit of the Spirit is love joy peace long -suffering gentleness make this kindness faithfulness self -control

21:24

And it doesn't matter because they just is that it just goes in their ears and out the other ear and hey

21:29

But they're sick. They're sick, man Right, right. They're sick. They have an illness What part of mental illness do you not understand and then

21:36

I look at them and say what part of mental illness you do? You not understand right? Like this is the label that you give people when all the medical tests run up empty

21:44

Mm -hmm and like you're being persuaded that this is somehow like you you're being led to believe that there's some kind of There must be some material cause that no one knows what it is

21:57

Right, right, and then the chemical imbalance theory has been disproven. We don't all know what it is. It doesn't matter

22:03

You just trust by faith That's an illness man And you're just trying to beat people over the head who were suffering from an illness you hateful bigot, right?

22:11

Right and like they need to get the help that they need and you're standing in the way of that It's like well, wait a minute, right?

22:18

It's I mean, like, you know, I guess I've always been the kind of person who has unpopular thoughts, right?

22:24

And I Mean growing up, I mean, you know, you thought this, you know, you thought like Looking at murder trials and you see like the you know, the defendant

22:36

Taking the insanity plea right and like he was in his right mind killing the person and all of a sudden he's gone you know clinically insane right now and He's appealing to this category of mental illness and you're looking at that and you had to have thought in your life at some point

22:53

Man, that's a convenient excuse, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, that sounds pretty good, right?

22:59

Like I mean, I could be a normal functioning person my whole entire life No one ever identified it, but now all of a sudden

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I get declared You know clinically insane and then I get absolved from all moral responsibility for my action

23:14

This seems like a pretty good deal, right? and so but then that's like what you're being asked to believe is that a normal person who can go along their life in a

23:23

Normal way can all of a sudden be given this label that you know identifies them as sick and then that removes all

23:31

Moral accountability for their action despite the fact that nothing physically happened to them and and so like that's what it's just a magic

23:38

Fairy -tale, like that's what it right now It might be helpful at this point to take a moment and And as clearly as we can define what we're talking about when we're saying when we're talking about mental illness

23:54

What exactly are we talking about because in my experience I feel like I've seen

24:00

I Feel like I've seen that word be used to cover a lot of different things.

24:07

So I feel like I've you I've seen it Be used to cover things like anxiety and depression

24:15

Which it seems like we're probably more talking about those kinds of things But then

24:22

I've also seen it used to Cover things like mental retardation for example

24:30

And and probably, you know other things that are just actually like there is some sort of physical problem

24:37

With their brain and their development or or whatever. So so can you just sort of?

24:44

Refine the definition for us. So everyone knows what exactly it is. We are talking about here. Yeah yeah, so the

24:50

DSM DSM is basically the diagnostic and school manual of mental disorders and what you're gonna find is like the

24:59

DSM basically all these labels so the vast majority of these labels are Mental illness basically, right?

25:06

That's distinguished from physical illness, but then like the problem though is that there's you know There's a few outliers and they're like, you know

25:13

Just dimension all the heads that are smuggled into there to make it sound more impressive than what it actually is

25:19

But the vast majority of these labels are simply this category of mental illness as distinct distinct from biological illness and so what you have is you can just take almost any label in the

25:30

DSM and you're gonna have a cat An example of a mental illness and basically all these labels as you read through all these labels the vast majority of them you're gonna see that like no medical tests are being done to perform these things and so just look up any any

25:46

You know instance in the DSM like general anxiety disorder look that up and and what you're gonna find is that it rules out any medical

25:55

Organic cause so this is the label that they Give people once all of the medical tests come up empty.

26:02

So there's no medical tests that anyone has ever performed to determine a person has general anxiety disorder or major depressive disorder or post traumatic traumatic stress disorder or Obsessive -compulsive disorder these like that.

26:16

They're not running medical tests to to to come up these things And so what these things are is they're just simple descriptions of behavior, right?

26:24

Mm -hmm. So you take something like general anxiety disorder take something like that It's just a simple description of behavior.

26:31

Meaning if you have a person who for six month period of time Persistent six months more days than not they are filled with excessive anxiety and worry

26:42

In that affects their life in a statistically, you know significant way meaning It's just like if they if they if they're characterized by life -dominating anxiety

26:52

For more days than not like for a six -month period and then there's a few other I mean, there's some other checklists.

26:58

They're gonna look at that. But I mean, yeah Well, it's just sleeping too much or not enough or yeah too much not eating enough

27:07

Significant weight lane or get weight loss, you know Psycho motor agitation all that kind of stuff.

27:13

All right, but none of that's medical So it's just a simple description of a phenomenon that's being described in the language of disorder

27:20

Mm -hmm. And so what mental illness is is just problems of thoughts and behavior that you know and mood that people are

27:28

You know suffering from and so you just put a label on it and all that is is it all it is

27:34

This is a description. Yeah, that's it. Mm -hmm So it's just a description like so You know major depressive disorder, you know a two -week period of time unexplained sorrow and sadness, right, right

27:45

So it's just a description of like a person who for two weeks those men played sorrow and sadness is affecting their life

27:52

Right moving slower, you know You know and there's you know other symptoms of it, but that's that's all these are categorizations of phenomenon

28:01

Nothing more, okay So when you're talking about mental illness, you're talking about the category simple categorizations in the main of behavior

28:09

That have no Medical tests that are being run to demonstrate them.

28:15

And so then you know, they're worded in the language of disorder But then the problem is that like, you know, this is psychology's

28:22

Bible They're basically just giving us an alternative explanation for the phenomenon that we observe So if you look at someone who like is labeled with clinically depressed

28:32

Like you can look at what the Bible says about that and you would describe them as you know, a person characterized by despair

28:38

What are you know worldly sorrow guilt shame? Condemnation, but the problem is that none of those moral labels can stick once you have this scientific

28:48

Pseudoscientific label that's put on it. Yeah, it's basically serving as an excuse or like a cover for you well, but then it's

28:56

You know, this is how psychology formed. It's like this is a Alternative worldview here. And so what's actually happening is like these are two competing views of the world, right?

29:06

So do they have general anxiety disorder? It sounds medical despite the fact that no medical tests are being run to show it or are they sinfully worried, right?

29:17

Right, and so if you come along and say they're simply worried then the person who buys the materialistic label

29:23

They're gonna say you're a hateful bigot. You hate these people and you're you know, leading to their deaths and all that, right?

29:29

Yeah, so but they're just two different categorizations. One is a moral categorization Right. Mm -hmm that assumes that we're culpable human beings

29:38

We're responsible for how we respond to the world how we think how we feel, you know, how we respond to the world

29:44

So once a moral label the other is a materialistic label that is packaged in the language of illness

29:50

And so, you know, what worldview do you want? Do you want the Bible's worldview or do you want the materialist worldview and those two things can't meet that mix?

29:58

And that's where you know, you have all the gut, you know, the psychologists come along to say hey, you know I've accepted the materialistic worldview and I throw some

30:04

Bible verses in there. And so what's wrong with that? It's like we have to worldview. We have a worldview problem here, right?

30:10

Yeah, it's a clash of worldview One is the supernatural worldview one is a materialistic worldview and you can't fit these two things together either

30:17

They're suffering from an illness, right? Materialistic It has some kind of material origin or this is a spiritual problem.

30:25

And what path you go down has dramatically, you know different consequences mm -hmm, and then we would you know, we would say obviously that the you know

30:35

The Christian worldview is the one to go with not the materialistic worldview that is saying things like depression and anxiety those types of things are

30:44

Their illness their illness, right we we would not agree with that at all now when it comes to You mentioned that there really isn't anything to back up What they're claiming, right, right

31:02

But it seems like a lot of people have basically just accepted at face value that there is So why so why do you say that there's not any sort of like scientific proof to prove?

31:14

These issues are merely just an illness that is plaguing someone as opposed to an actual moral failure

31:24

Yeah, but there's not because there's no medical tests I mean, all right so you can approach it in different ways one one of the ways you approach it is because if the

31:31

Bible says that I trust My faith that the Bible is true and what God says is true And so if you know, I'm gonna lean on his categories and so there's a simple childlike faith you have in the

31:40

Bible So the Bible says the fear of the spiritless love joy peace long -suffering gentleness kindness faithfulness self -control

31:45

Then you see a person come along who has no love joy. Peace long -suffering Right because they have major depressive disorder

31:53

Yeah, then what you do is you just say hey, I'm gonna believe the Bible over and against the materialistic framework

31:59

Okay, so I mean you you shouldn't you don't have to know anything about the science just say

32:04

I'm gonna go with the Bible here you know and now if you know something about the origin of psychology and how it came about then you realize that This was the goal of the project

32:12

Okay, like this was a Darwinian and project to try to give an alternative explanation for human behavior

32:18

Then the spiritual moral supernatural one that we're talking about, right? Yeah, so like these are two different teams and if you know anything about history, you could say hey

32:26

These two teams are doing the opposite thing and they're intentionally setting out to contradict the guys on your team, man

32:33

Yeah, it was an atheistic. Yeah Yeah, yeah, that was you know, the

32:38

Darwinian alternative to soul care that's what it was. All right, so then You know, but even leaving all that aside, right?

32:45

So leaving aside that God says it and that's good. You know, I believe that's good enough for me just Dealing with them on their own terms you can go to a doctor and They're not gonna run any medical test on you to determine you have major Depressive disorder, they're not gonna run any medical test on you to determine you have general anxiety disorder

33:05

You can look at them and you say hey show me a medical test to show that there's something wrong with me And it's like well, that's not how it works, right?

33:12

Right like there's nothing wrong with you There's no evidence of tissue damage or malfunction, right? Well, then why are you giving me this label, right?

33:20

So like the issue is like there is no test to determine any of these things.

33:25

Okay. Yeah Like so there's no test to determine now there's research that goes on behind the scenes to try to like see if they can you know compare the you know,

33:38

I like here is what a depressed person's brain looks like and it shows like the the scans

33:45

Yeah, like, you know how the you know neurons are firing and all that and then this is a normal healthy brain so to speak

33:51

But that doesn't prove anything, right? Like that's not proving anything. All that's showing is that yeah, you know if you're weighed down by guilt shame and condemnation

34:00

I'm sure that your brain is a fog but like the issue is a chicken -egg issue, right? Like what's causing it is like, you know,

34:07

David says when he held on to a sin his body wasted away so, you know when we're holding on to guilt and shame and condemnation doesn't it make our brain, you know feel sluggish and and You know slow -moving and you know

34:19

Like like those things have like so you can look at brain activity scans, but that doesn't prove cause right?

34:25

That's not showing ideology That's not showing cause of any of this stuff. And so like the issue is in none of these

34:32

Kinds of scenario. Is there any like objective science that undergirds it or any medical tests that are being run to determine?

34:39

You know any of these things and yeah for many years We all believed know many people believe the chemical imbalance myth, but then that was shown to be just, you know

34:49

Anti -scientific but right now it's like it's not a matter of me just saying there's no scientific evidence.

34:55

There's just not right well, what's enter what's interesting is, you know, I was reading this article that you had sent me and and There's two articles that I really do.

35:06

I want to link in the description For for reason then I want people to go and and read both of them because they're basically from the two opposing

35:17

Christian positions here One or one article is arguing that the

35:25

Bible and psychology are meant to intertwine and The other the other is arguing that the

35:32

Bible is sufficient and that psychology is is basically a scam

35:38

And there there is this one really interesting quote from here that I wanted to read and and the author was citing dr.

35:46

Thomas saz I guess it's SZ a SZ. So however you say that but the the quote says from from dr.

35:57

Saz in plain language What do patient and?

36:03

Psychotherapists actually do they speak and listen to each other That that so that's their summary and this is coming from a person who?

36:14

approves of psychology Dr. Saz they speak and listen to each other

36:19

What do they speak about narrowly put the patient speaks about himself and the therapist speaks about the patient?

36:26

each tries to move the other to see or do things in a certain way, so That sounds very different from you know, like you compare that to like, all right,

36:37

I think I've broken my leg I'm gonna go to the doctor, you know, obviously there's like some patient doctor interaction

36:48

What part of therapy do you not understand yeah, you're right foolish me what was

36:53

I thinking never mind strike the whole point No, obviously Yeah, like if you compare that like hey, okay, it's a

37:02

I'm going to a therapist and we're just gonna talk about What's going on? Versus like hey,

37:08

I think I've broken my leg. I'm gonna go to a doctor now Obviously that doctor is gonna ask me questions.

37:14

He's gonna interact with me, you know, hey, how bad is the pain? What do you think you did? But then all of those questions are leading to trying to trying to find the evidence of the injury provide a material

37:27

Solution right right to an organic problem, right? Right. So but that's like the whole point is that what they've done is they're a parasite discipline and they package everything

37:38

They're doing in medical language. So they describe what they're doing talking as therapy, right? Mm -hmm, and so we treat it as if it's therapy

37:46

But it's just like that's not what a doctor does like a duck. This is why this is why I'm describing it as like magic

37:52

Right. It's like magic that we're talking about like a doctor doesn't talk to your leg in order to heal your leg

38:00

I mean leave that to the faith healers, man Right with this what this why what we're taught what we're being asked to believe is magic, right?

38:10

Like we're being asked to believe it like the therapist talking to you is going to like magically fix the

38:18

Neuron firings in your brain and right, you know give the appropriate chemicals and all that.

38:23

It's like nonsense. This is not therapy This is not like all the words are lies. This is not therapy.

38:29

This is not illness, right? Like like these are not drugs. I mean, these are not medicine, right?

38:35

So this is not medicine. This is not therapy This is not illness, right? You're talking to people and you're giving them tranquilizers or happy pills like, you know

38:43

So all the words are lies, right? and so but then when you tell them to people over and over and over again, they they start to believe you and they

38:52

Right, they you know, they just you know, they've been brainwashed Everyone's been thoroughly brainwashed and they can't even see like that.

39:00

This is obviously not the same as the other thing anymore Well, and I think part of part of why it's been so successful is because it is such an emotionally

39:08

Charged subject to begin with right and so not only do you have this whole like hey, we'll pack it

39:14

We'll package these things in a way That makes them sound a lot more scientific than just you know

39:22

One person talking to another person about their issues, but then on top of that there are issues that are

39:29

Inherently very emotionally charged and so when you challenge them in any sort of way that that puts the blame on The person who is feeling those emotions

39:42

Then inevitably, you know for anyone who loves their sin they're going to get they're going to get defensive about that right right and and then

39:53

Simultaneously when you when you provide an answer that takes all of that blame off of them for whatever reason

40:00

They're naturally gonna go towards that I mean it like any any sinful person is naturally going to say give me whatever will make me feel like I'm not guilty

40:11

It's it's the biggest I mean It's like the like if you talk about Satan schemes and like some of the most successful schemes that he's ever had like psychology is probably by far in a way like one of the

40:23

Best things he ever did, you know, I can't I can't think of like none of his finest work

40:28

It's one of his finest works. You got to give him props for it, man Like I mean you really do. It's just like man that respect, right?

40:37

Say that but okay You got to give the devil is You got to give the devil is do man on this one because this is a this was a good one

40:46

This was a good plan. I mean, but think about I mean his whole his whole thing is did God say right, right?

40:52

Yeah, did God say did God really say I mean he's the father of lies He's that you know spirit that works in the sons of disobedience

41:00

Like his goal is to get you to disobey God and like what he's done is he's provided you a materialistic

41:06

Scientific, you know quasi medical sounding explanation to like basically violate everything the

41:14

Bible says like so every single Behavioral problem you can imagine has a psychological label attached to it like every single behavioral problem

41:26

That you can possibly think about like the entirety of the human experience.

41:31

It has a psychological label Attached to it, right? Right So like so meaning like you can you get that label you are suffering from organic illness in the minds of many people and you

41:44

Have a medical excuse to not do what God says like kleptomania. What is that? Stealing all the time

41:53

Irresistible stealing An infomaniac man, like, you know, but think about it like all like every big like so you have a disobedient child

42:02

You got labels to put on that right oppositional defiant disorder You have a label for every sin like you have a materialistic and that's what it is

42:12

Like the psycho this is why it's psychology's Bible. Is it they've labeled every single behavioral problem

42:18

With a Medical sounding label that you can lean on right? Mm -hmm. So it like it what is fits of anger in the

42:25

Bible? Well in medical in therapeutic language, it's intermittent dispose explosive disorder

42:31

Like that's that's how absurd it is Like, you know, you have no category for sin in this worldview

42:36

Like there's no category for sin and right in psychology worldview And so you have all these labels that are describing every kind of sin imaginable and you know

42:46

The more people lean on these labels the more that they absolved himself of all moral accountability for everything now what's what's happened is that like with the behaviors we still like the issue is like most people with the behaviors in general are kind of like Hey, you you know

43:06

You can't you know You can't blame that sexual issue on that label kind of thing for the most part right for them for the most part but then

43:15

But then when it comes to like problems of mood Like there's just a wholesale abdication of all moral accountability

43:23

Right, so ever we totally lean on like these labels and so like we we don't have a category for a world a sorrow in Psychological worldview, we don't have a category for despair, you know in a psychological label kind of framework

43:38

So you have no category for ever like rebuking someone for like these moods these feelings

43:45

That they have these emotions that are you know overpowering and unwelcome I mean, it doesn't matter if you like never give thanks your whole life, right?

43:52

You can blame it on your depression, right? It doesn't matter if you're constantly worried every single day

43:58

Right, if it's emotion if it's a if it's an emotion if it's a mood like we just we lean on the psychological labels

44:05

But there's labels for everything like so OCD bipolar, you know PTSD Miss labels are everything and it's the oppositional defiant disorder.

44:13

There's labels. So I understand why the secular world Would accept these things

44:19

Because because you know, the Bible says they love the darkness. I hated the light You know, they're gonna they're gonna run to Anything that that removes their get or that makes them feel like their guilt has been removed from them

44:34

So I understand why why they would Why They would accept something like this

44:40

But it seems like the church as well has widely accepted this

44:46

So what what is the reason for the church? Integrating what seems to be two completely different competing worldviews and has tried to reconcile them together

44:59

Well, he's been brainwashed man. We've been brainwashed by I could we've you know, you tell a lie over and over again so that was

45:05

Joseph Goebbels philosophy of propaganda you tell the you know the big lie over and over again and pretty soon people won't

45:11

Believe it and I mean and what's happened is this is just the air we breathe that you know We live in a world that's dominated by all these languages and with all this like with all these labels and what's happened you know in the main is that Like it's just been a big deception

45:26

So if you if you if you keep on using the language of disorder you keep on using all the medical language I mean who's looked into you know, obsessive -compulsive disorder, right?

45:36

No one's looked into obsessive -compulsive who's looked into post -traumatic stress disorder Like who's actually like sat down on the internet pulled up and said let me what are the diagnostic criteria for PCSD?

45:47

What are the diagnostic criteria for OCD? You know, what are the diagnostic criteria for oppositional defiant disorder?

45:54

You know, so most people are not looking these things out They just hear this medical sounding label and then we're taught, you know to have blind faith in the medical community

46:04

I mean, it's the same reason why they were able to do what they were doing They did during the pandemic is because we just have this blind

46:11

Like hey, we're Americans. We have the best medicine in the world kind of thing, right? Mm -hmm Yeah, I don't want to live in the you know

46:17

The you know The tribe in the backwoods over there and you know don't have access to the medical care

46:22

And so isn't science wonderful and it hasn't accomplished all these wonderful things and and so but then when you hear these medical sounding labels

46:29

Over and over and over again, you know, there's a lot of people who just haven't stopped to question. What are we saying here?

46:34

Right, right. Now. It may be that like with the the oppositional defiant disorder.

46:40

We all chuckle a little bit, right? Yeah, like my child is suffering from oppositional defiant disorder

46:46

But what what happens with most most red -blooded Americans at that point is they just kind of I think they're getting a little carried away here, right

46:53

Like I hear but you know with all the other ones you you accept them, right?

46:59

And so part of it is just you've been brainwashed a lot of it Is that we just haven't read the Bible and we don't take sanctification very seriously, right?

47:07

So, you know people who try to buy obey the Bible too much they're legalist and and so part of us that part of it is just we love our sin and we you know,

47:15

We want to latch on to any excuse we can get and yeah itching ears Yeah, I mean

47:20

I I counseled a guy, you know Who is that, you know suffering from ADD and depression and all that? And what that meant was he had a label that allowed him to spend all day long playing video games, right?

47:30

I've counseled many guys like this, but there's one guy in particular I'm thinking about but like you get to spend all day long playing video games.

47:36

It's like well, yeah All right, that seems like a pretty good deal, right? Yeah I mean, it's the same way with like you you murder the person you claim to be clinically insane, right?

47:45

Well now I don't have to get the death penalty and maybe I get a lighter sentence And so I mean there's a very real tonight dynamic that if you can blame it on a label then you get sympathy

47:55

So not only do you get sympathy, but then you get like a pass That you know removes moral accountability in your life and right now

48:03

I mean we live in a victim society where there's this great currency to be found and any kind of victim label that you can

48:09

Get so not only like do you have to be coddled and you know treated as a triumphant victim

48:15

You also get praise and pass and everything else. And so there's a lot of things that are working together

48:23

So the church's has pretty much it seems like pretty much totally accepted this, right?

48:30

Sure, I think I think that the older generation has And you have a newer generation coming along that is starting to question some of these things and so I think you have a lot of younger people that are starting to wake up and They're all kind of going to nutrition now.

48:48

So natural path is their new psychology, but natural path is just It's still a materialistic explanation for everything.

48:56

And so, you know, we've made it made a joke last week or something about the red food dye stuff, but Yeah, the kind of parent who thinks that every you know, if their child's behavioral problem can be fixed with red food dye

49:08

So what you have is you have a lot of like younger people who realize that like hey, you know these drugs

49:13

They didn't work with my parents and you know, my mom was miserable and you know Like my mom was miserable and overweight and hooked it only all these antidepressants everyone outside never exercised

49:25

You know always in a bad mood and then I think they determined to not be like them, right? Yeah, they thought well

49:31

Why don't we try to eat healthier and get in shape and move more and and then they realize is they never suffered from the

49:37

You know quote -unquote suffered from the depression like them And so then they think well like the answer is all material it to you know, the opposite way like diet exercise workout

49:47

So I think you have a lot of younger people who are leaning that direction now because they saw how like, you know

49:54

Big Pharma basically Made a generation of drug addicts, you know across the board, right?

50:00

And I think with all the you know, the kovat stuff. There's a You know all -time low right now faith in the medical community

50:08

But but I mean this is a this is a stronghold for so many people like a lot of people haven't got the memo you know yet that this is bad and You know when you take away the chemical imbalance theory, they're still stuck on like well, it must be something right?

50:23

Mm -hmm, like that doesn't even deter them in the slightest that like like they could literally be telling you that You know

50:31

You're such an idiot because you didn't realize this is all about a chemical imbalance and then you can show them the article and it doesn't even

50:38

Phase it doesn't even register for them that the whole argument they had has been debunked

50:44

Yeah, they have nothing left, you know And there's still it's just blind faith that this is a material problem because they've been brainwashed for so long.

50:50

So One of the issues I I mean Like like I said, the church has been trying to reconcile these two things

51:02

Right, and and I asked you why they were trying to reconcile it now I just want to ask you like what are they actually doing to try and reconcile two things that it seemed to be so Diametrically opposed to each other.

51:15

How are they? How are they justifying this? Are you talking about like yeah integration kind of psychologists who are going to?

51:23

Like take the Bible and give a few little tips and then give the psychological worldview. What does that look like? Yeah Yeah, what that looks like is you adopt the label you basically just accept the label

51:33

So the label itself is like to say I guess a quasi materialistic label So, you know like that's what you do like you basically accepting that this is like an organic problem with the label

51:44

But then, you know, you sprinkle a few Bible verses on there, too like that That are adding to you know what you're saying, you know, so yes

51:55

Yeah, I can so it's just kind of like a you know One step and you have steps in both different worldviews, but I mean what always gives is the biblical worldview in that way, right?

52:06

So it's always the biblical world But a lot of the guys who were doing this are just basically just sprinkling a few prosperity verses in there

52:12

Yeah That kind of stuff. Yeah, it seems like a lot of self -love and and self -love.

52:18

Yeah self -love trust God, you know Trust God in the midst of it. He has a plan. So I mean you could say things like that Hey, you know, he has a plan for for you and all this and you know, he's good

52:28

You know and he loves you in the midst of your suffering, you know kind of stuff and so you can use

52:33

Bible verses like that like you have the person who suffers from depression and It's you know, it's viewed in the language of a biological illness, right?

52:44

And so you you can give them like Jesus was near to the brokenhearted, you know verse right?

52:49

Yeah, you know God is here to comfort us in any affliction that we're facing, you know

52:55

So you can do that. You're just like the problem is that you failed at the basic Diagnosis does that make sense?

53:02

Mm -hmm. Yeah, and you're using verses in a way that does violence to their intention, right?

53:08

Those verses weren't meant to be like cloaks for a vice, right? Yeah. Yeah You're basically you're basically twisting scripture at that point to mean what it wasn't meant to be right?

53:19

Jesus Yeah, and so and somehow you're getting to this weird place where you know

53:26

Now the Bible now the Bible is about like hey if you want to overcome your you know

53:32

Like whatever your issue is then you need to realize that you need to love yourself, right? And you need to You know

53:38

God loves you and so you need to love yourself because you're worth loving and and I had someone

53:44

I had a Teacher told a professor tell me that one time You know that the way you counsel people who are in distress is

53:52

Number one you teach them that they need to love themselves Because God loves them and if God loves them then they're worth loving

54:00

Right, and you can't love other people until you love yourself first And all of that is just like the total antithesis of what the

54:06

Bible actually says the Bible the Bible says that you know The unrighteous will love themselves

54:12

Right the the righteous they'll choose to love Christ instead and realize that they're sinful and that they need a

54:19

Savior and They'll die, you know die to themselves Actually, they won't love themselves.

54:26

They'll die to themselves. And so so it just seems like To make this work.

54:31

Yes. It's what you said, you know the Bible has you know, the Bible always gives first For for these people and and it really does

54:40

I mean I was literally in school being taught these things and And they're they're just literally anti Bible Those teachings and which is really concerning that there's so many

54:55

Christians that just buy into it then Yeah, so I mean in the in the worst case scenario what you're doing is it's like moralistic therapeutic deism

55:04

So then like the God of the Bible exists to give you like build your self -esteem so what happens like in in the worst case scenarios with this when you're trying to mix it is

55:13

You assume all the doctrines of psychology like self -esteem and all that and you know, even though I mean not that's not a model

55:19

The psychology is not a monolith, but you know the self -esteem movement was a big thing, right? Yeah, so you assume those kind of things and then you read those into the

55:26

Bible then you distort the Bible to fit that So that's what's happening in the worst case scenario is you just have That happening but then you know in the best case scenario you're using like real verses like God is near to the brokenhearted to do violent like to and you're applying it to a scenario in order to Do something it wasn't designed to do and that is like to comfort a sinner.

55:49

Yeah in their sin, right? Yeah, like that's not what it was designed to do. So but that's not You're not reading something into it that's not there in that case

55:59

You're just applying it inappropriately, right? Does that make right? Yeah, so but then I mean not obviously

56:05

I think by and large like psychology What it's doing is so we're removing personal accountability kind of game.

56:10

But I mean you do have like guys like Jordan Peterson who are you know pushing it?

56:16

I mean, he's not doing that from a Christian perspective, you know, right? But you know who are encouraging moral accountability

56:22

But like the labels himself they suck away moral accountability and the more that you're leaning on these labels

56:27

Like you're just you're accepting the basic victim framework and then you're trying to get people to not be you know

56:34

Totally limited by like the victim framework to make the best of you know their illness and their disability and take responsible steps, you know to To manage it and to cope with it.

56:46

Yeah. Yeah, and I think you know Going back to this like okay best case scenario.

56:53

What are they trying to do? Well, they're taking verses that do mean something and they're just misapplying them

56:58

I do think there also is and probably in this best case scenario category. There also is a place for I have seen

57:08

Christians who who believe in psychology and and it being this, you know

57:15

Helpful tool to use I guess if you want to put it that way the analytical tool. Yeah the analytical tool they'll um

57:22

They'll they'll even take verses that actually do apply to the situation, but then they give them

57:31

It's almost it's almost because psychology has become so prevalent

57:36

It is like the pride and it's become the primary answer to these moral issues That a lot of pastors have actually forgotten or or possibly never even been taught to begin with The actual answers to these issues and so you'll see people who come along and say hey, you know

57:55

You need to you need to pray right or all right, you're depressed Well, you need you know, you're depressed, you know, that's not like you're just suffering from depression.

58:05

That's not your fault Blah blah blah whatever but you know, God God can still comfort you in the midst of this

58:11

He can still help you with this, you know, obviously you don't want to stay depressed so what you need to do is

58:18

Number one you need to go to a psychologist and do everything that they say and don't question any of it and then on top of that you need to pray you need to pray to God right and and That's great.

58:32

Because the but you know, the Bible does say, you know part of the answer to Anxiety for example is

58:40

To pray and make your request known to God, right? Sure. That's part of the answer, but then they just stop there

58:48

And so so I think what probably happens is people do you know people take their advice and say, okay

58:55

I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna go to the psychologist and then you know, I'll pray in the meantime Maybe they even say read your

59:00

Bible every once in a while if they're feeling really Yeah, I think the extent of the

59:07

Bible stuff in general is that Like all they're doing is like they're using the

59:13

Bible as a tool for self -esteem in the main, you know To encourage you or just tell you're wonderful.

59:18

I tell you God cares about you and God loves you and and then you know Maybe they're encouraging also like Bible reading and prayer as a responsible step to you know

59:27

But then that's about it. I could put that what they're not doing. They're basically secondary, right?

59:32

They're secondary But then what they're not doing is they're not treating the Bible as if the Bible Has the answers to these fundamental problems and they're not starting out with the assumption that you're a sinner

59:43

You know and that you're not like that. These are sins, you know, you know, and so if you don't I mean

59:49

If you're not treating depression as a sin committed by a sinner Then we're in different worlds here, man

59:57

Whatever you're doing with the Bible at that point. We're just in different planets, right? And that and that's what leads people

01:00:02

That's what leads these guys to the total just like wrong answer to begin with is because the

01:00:08

Bible doesn't say just pray in your Anxiety will go away, right and that's what they accused us of they accused us of saying you know

01:00:15

You just pray the anxiety way. Ha ha ha. So no you you got to deal with like the idols of your heart They're producing that anxiety and you know, you have to you have to figure out we have what do

01:00:24

I want in this scenario that I'm not getting and like like like what what is leading to these things and what are the

01:00:32

Deep -seated like just desires that are or within me sure But then like the answer though is we just have two different starting points, you know so we have two different views of man like The view of the integration is is that man's basically?

01:00:46

Okay. He's just suffering, right? He's suffering suffering you in the fall or you know, whatever, you know, our view is that we're sinners, right?

01:00:53

Yeah. All right. So if you don't have any joy in your life, you're dominated by worry. You don't have any peace Like this sin, you know, yeah, so we have it may be sin in response to suffering sure

01:01:03

But like these are sin issues that we're talking about like with Most of what we're talking about here or you know, just suffering like suffering kind of issues

01:01:11

But not suffering from a biological ailment, you know suffering from life and learning how to suffer Well and suffer in a way that honors to God.

01:01:18

So we just have different starting points and and then we have different like Diagnosis of what's actually happening?

01:01:24

Yeah, so, you know like your diagnosis is a quasi medical language that Paints you as a victim of your biology, right?

01:01:32

Our diagnosis is hey, we're sinners and you know These are moral problems and we're gonna treat them as with moral solutions

01:01:38

Well, and I think that's what's so frustrating about these types of conversations with people who disagree with our position is

01:01:47

Just the fact that they they basically try to boil it down to like hey, you know

01:01:52

Oh you you think the answer is prayer or oh you just think everyone who's depressed or has anxiety

01:01:59

They must just have a demon or something. All right, and it's like well, hang on like no

01:02:06

Yeah, that's the extent of their Christian experience I can so like these guys They just they've never been in a good church their whole life for the most most of them

01:02:13

They've never been a good church their whole life that have you know taught about anything related to sanctification whatsoever

01:02:19

Their extent of it is just like the popular charismatic stuff, right? And so then they you know, they you know, hold up their straw man, which is just the deliverance ministry charismatic

01:02:28

False prophet kind of people and they paint themselves as the heroes of the story because they have their science, right?

01:02:33

I've already guessed the mysticism of the charismatics. It's like yeah, maybe you should go to a good solid reformed church

01:02:39

That little teach you to repent. Don't you repent to dwell on righteousness?

01:02:45

Yeah, that will teach you how to live the Christian life equip you to you know Actually live and you know, and I would say that the vast majority of churches are just not teaching on sanctification

01:02:54

So the nature abhors a vacuum, you know If you have churches that won't touch sanctification with the 10 -foot pole

01:03:00

Then you know either the charismatic school, you know, cast out your demons or the psychologist will you know drug you to death?

01:03:08

So, okay, I guess just to close us out. How would you counsel someone?

01:03:14

Who is who is? Dealing with like they've they've been they've become just overwhelmed with anxiety or depression or anger

01:03:24

Whatever it is. How would you counsel them? Yeah, I guess it just you know, there's no one -size -fits -all approach to any of that But I mean the general principles are if like, you know

01:03:35

If you're talking about someone with intermittent explosive disorder, they have to take responsibility for their anger, right?

01:03:41

Right, like so and the Bible has to be allowed to speak to that. So you're a sinner, right? you're a sinner and the

01:03:47

Bible says the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness that God requires you have to You have to hear that right?

01:03:53

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and slammer and climber be clamber be put away from me along with all malice Be kind to one another tender hearted forgiving one another as God in Christ has forgiven you, you know

01:04:01

Curse be their anger because it's fear fierce, right? So like the Bible I Describes anger as murder.

01:04:09

So I cart murder, right? So you think you you think You're justified because you've never killed someone

01:04:17

Well, if you're angry with your brother, you've committed murder essentially in your heart So you have to accept like a spiritual diagnosis for this

01:04:24

This is an anger problem And if you're gonna lean on a materialistic label you there's no hope for you with this like you're you're done, right?

01:04:31

So I mean step one like you have to you like this is sinful anger You know it with that something like that you teach them the difference between righteous anger and sinful anger

01:04:40

You know righteous anger is about God's priorities like his kingdom come his will be done Yeah, you know your anger is about like your kingdom come and your will be done, you know on In heaven as you know, you want it to be done on earth, right?

01:04:54

So, you know anger is I want what I want what I want it Yeah, that's what I you know, we talked about James for you know

01:05:00

Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from the desires or pleasure that are waging more in your members? So like the issue is with anger you have to accept responsibility for it then we need to identify like the anger like the desire that under like that is

01:05:14

Producing the anger right? So where do the wars and fights come? Do they not come from desires for pleasure waging war on your members?

01:05:20

So you you do not You desire and do not have so you fight and quarrel, right?

01:05:28

You do not have because you do not ask But then so like the issue is what's the desire? What do you want here?

01:05:33

That's causing the anger So you need to accept responsibility for the anger you identify the want that's underneath it

01:05:39

Like what do you want that you're not getting right now? You evaluate that want? So like is it a good desire is a bad desire

01:05:48

The text says you do not have because you do not ask so you should be praying for it if it's a good desire, right?

01:05:53

but then you ask and don't receive because you You yourself is essentially you're one of spending up spending on your pleasures

01:06:01

And so like you think about what's the desire that undergirds the anger so take responsibility What's the anger desire that undergirds it?

01:06:08

Is it good or bad evaluate it ask God for it? Learn to trust him with it, right?

01:06:14

Yeah, and then you know, like you So you're dealing with the heart desire that's underneath it.

01:06:20

Where's that coming from? What's the idol that's underneath that the thing that if I don't get this

01:06:26

I refuse to be happy and then you know Then you need it like learn about like, you know how the heart works and put on put off put on kind of stuff and so Bubba says let all bitterness and wrath and clamor be put away from you along with all malice

01:06:38

Then be kind to one another tender -hearted forgiving one another so teach him about what forgiveness means

01:06:44

You know how to resolve conflict and then you know how to not only put away the anger

01:06:49

But then put on kindness and gentleness and graciousness and now if your enemy hungers you feed him if you thirst give him a drink

01:06:55

You know so doing you're gonna repulse a fire under on his head. So it's not just to put off the anger You're putting on kindness and doing good to your enemies and praying for those who abuse you and spiteful use you so,

01:07:07

I mean, I think there's a lot that I mean, I just I'm trying to summarize right?

01:07:12

Yeah, five ten counseling sessions in Three minutes. Okay. Yeah, but but I mean what

01:07:19

I'm trying to say is like that would be the approach of someone who says the Bible has the answer to intermittent explosive disorder and we're gonna treat it like anger

01:07:27

You need to treat it as if it's a sin you need to repent of it, right? Like ask forgiveness for it take responsibility for it deal with the heart idol that's underneath it and then you know

01:07:39

Put off the bad behavior and emotions and feelings and put on the good, you know, so you need a comprehensive solution

01:07:47

To these things, but that's just like a short summary, but you do that with everything, right? Right. Yeah, whatever whatever we're talking about We're talking about depression.

01:07:54

We're talking about anxiety. We're talking about anger. You're talking about worry. You're talking about fear. You're talking about You know

01:08:01

Worldly sorrow like we just you deal with it step at a time. Yeah, okay

01:08:06

Well, I think that's a good place for us to wrap this episode up on and obviously this is a sensitive topic for a lot of people but we need to be we need to be people who number one trust

01:08:16

God and trust his word and trust that it is sufficient and Beneficial to us and that God's Word is true and speaks to everything that we need to know

01:08:29

As it pertains to this life and that it is it's actually a guide for us. It's actually a guide for our feet and And I think this is no different and it feels hard for a lot of people right now just because like you said so many people have repeated the lie for so long that It really has

01:08:51

For a lot of people it's obscured the truth for them When it comes to how to how to handle these issues and how to look at them rightly and how

01:08:59

How to approach them in a in a loving way with ourselves and with others and so So I think we do need to speak with clarity on this.

01:09:10

Like I said, I'm gonna link I'm gonna link two articles to the bottom of or in the description of this podcast wherever you're watching it and What I want people to do is

01:09:24

I want people to read these two articles Whether you agree with our position or you don't agree with our position.

01:09:30

I want everyone to read these two articles because Tim and I we read we read them both and You know,

01:09:39

I don't know about you Tim, but I came away with some I Came away with with I had some takeaways from these two articles that I didn't

01:09:49

Expect to have by the end of it after reading both of them I'm gonna

01:09:55

I'm gonna post an article that basically argues for the sort of you know, psych psychology mixed with you know,

01:10:05

I integration integration counseling I'll link one article that is defending that and then

01:10:13

I'm gonna link another article that is Arguing against it that is arguing for a more new fetid type of counseling or Biblical counseling and and I want you to read these two and and really notice

01:10:31

One of these articles is going to rely heavily on the Bible and Not only is going to rely heavily on the

01:10:39

Bible, but they're actually going to use the Bible verses correctly And and the other article is is going to mention a few

01:10:49

Bible maybe like one or two Maybe maybe it's three but you know not as many

01:10:57

Bible passages and the ones that they do use They're the half the time they're not even going to be used correctly or they're gonna leave out key information that would help you understand

01:11:11

The broader context of what's being communicated specifically I mean some of the psalms where that where the authors of the psalms

01:11:19

Are communicating some it seems like they're you know depressed basically, they're they're psalms of of lament of sadness of mourning and What they leave out in the article is the fact that in and all of those types of psalms what always happens is by the

01:11:38

End of the psalm they remind themselves of the goodness of God or why they shouldn't why they shouldn't feel sad

01:11:45

But they leave that context out. They only mentioned that the authors were sad And so I want you to read these two articles and and just decide for yourself

01:11:54

Who is at who does it seem like is relying more on the Bible and what

01:12:00

God has actually said and then ask yourself? Which side do you want to be on? Do you want to be on do you want to be on the side that is using the

01:12:08

Bible correctly and is is using that as the primary foundation for their worldview or would you like to be on on the side that Seemingly is not doing that or is not prioritizing that at least

01:12:22

Yeah, they yeah, I've read you know countless articles Trying to plot some kind of middle -ground way and I mean the

01:12:31

Bible is rarely ever used if at all But then is you know, what's amazing is that they're not actually they're not actually even defending their own position either and that's something that you can look at too and you try to compare the two kind of Perspectives on this and like they're not even defending their own perspective

01:12:46

It's just assumed that these things are medical, you know with no evidence given whatsoever You know, it's just taken for granted that all these must be medical problem.

01:12:55

The only evidence are emotional appeals Yeah, it's just emotional appeals to like You know, doesn't it feel more loving to give people medical excuses

01:13:04

But that's all that generally is ever happening that no one's ever treating the objections on the other side very seriously

01:13:10

But then those who are you know making the case? for the Bible are

01:13:15

Dealing with the actual realities on the ground much much more carefully Yeah, so like I said,

01:13:20

I'll link those two articles and seriously read them and decide for yourself Who do you think is relying on what

01:13:28

God has actually said? So but with all that being said, we want to thank you guys again for listening to us weekend and week out for supporting us

01:13:37

For interacting with us on social media through email. We appreciate all that is fun.

01:13:42

This is fun to hear How God is using what we're doing to sanctify you guys and equip you guys and encourage you guys

01:13:50

I think one of the one of the things that we want to do with this podcast is to show people that It is okay to speak boldly about these things and there are people out there who who are trying to do that and and our our goal or part of our goal is to Not just not just be the sort of, you know, lightning rod for these kinds of things even though sometimes we are in our community, but then to equip all of you out there listening to understand that That you can say these things as well and and give you the understanding

01:14:24

And and the sort of thought process behind everything so that you can communicate it to the people in your life as well

01:14:31

So so we encourage you guys to do that and until we see you guys again on the next episode.

01:14:36

Thanks This has been another episode of Bible bashed.

01:14:45

We hope you have been encouraged and blessed through our discussion We thank you for all your support and ask you to continue to like and subscribe to Bible bashed and share our podcast with your friends and on social media

01:14:56

Please reach out to us with your questions pushback and potential topics for us to discuss in future episodes at Bible bashed podcast at gmail .com

01:15:06

and consider supporting us through patreon If you would like to be Bible bashed personally, then please know that we also offer free biblical counseling

01:15:14

Which you can take advantage of by emailing us Now go boldly and obey the truth in the midst of a biblically illiterate world who will be perpetually offended