November 19, 2019 Show with Joseph M. Bianchi on “God Chose to Save: Why Man Cannot & Will Not Be Saved Apart From Election”

Introduction and the Guest’s Background

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 .17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 19th day of November 2019.

And I am not exaggerating in the slightest bit, not that I ever do on this show, but I am so thrilled to have an old friend on this program, both old in his own age and old in the number of years I have known him.

His name is Joseph M. Bianchi. When I first met Joe, it was back in the 1990s when he participated in a radio program, not mine. Mine was only a thought in my head at that time. I was working for WMCA Radio, 570 AM, an affiliate of the largest radio network in the world, Salem Media.

And I was working for them. And my friend Andy Anderson, who is now in heaven for eternity, he hosted his own show before I ever had mine. And it was called originally Talk New York, then it became Andy Anderson Live.

But I got a guest appearance. I arranged a guest appearance for my guest today on Andy Anderson Live. And the comical thing is I can remember now the long car ride that I had with Joe, where he was saying to me, I'm a hardcore dispensationalist and you'll never convince me otherwise.

And Joe not only is no longer a dispensationalist, he was a Calvinist at the time, but a dispensationalist, but he's no longer a dispensationalist. He became Amillennial, but from what I recently heard from him, he is now Postmillennial.

And much to my depression and sadness, and I don't know what else to say as far as the adjectives I could come up with, but he is now a Presbyterian as well. And I exaggerated my dismay over that. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio after so many years, Joseph M. Bianchi.

And Joe is also, would you call yourself the president or the executive director of Calvary Press? Calvary Press began as a ministry that Mike Gaydosh, my former pastor, started when the church where he pastored was called Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, Long Island.

And that publishing ministry became a really thriving publishing ministry, starting out with just a few paper reprints that were stapled together by J .C. Ryle and Charles Spurgeon and others. And now it's become a full-blown publishing company that rivals the largest of publishers that you can think of.

And Joe took over the helm at some point as running the operations for Calvary Press and then later purchased Calvary Press, which he now owns and operates on his own. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about Calvary Press?

Yes, and I remember before you actually purchased Calvary Press, I was a part-time employee there. I worked full-time for the aforementioned WNCA radio, but worked part-time for Calvary Press. I have very, very fond memories of both Joe and I working in the same building at Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, now purchased by a Calvary Chapel congregation after the merger between First Baptist Church of Merrick and the church became Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, which still exists, pastored by Mark Romaldi and Doug Totter.

But I have so many fond memories of being able to share the same building with you as a workplace because WNCA actually, as you know, rented my offices as the Long Island representative for that radio station in Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville.

So I would come down there and annoy you and distract you from your job. I just remember we would have a lot of fun and a lot of laughs and some serious theological discussions as well.

Great memories. Great memories, yes.

And so Joe is now living in South Carolina where he is a member of Second Presbyterian Church of Greenville, South Carolina, pastored by Dr. Richard D. Phillips, who has been a guest a number of times on this program.

And I've known him for many years as well. I think I may even know him longer than I know Joe. But Joe and I obviously sharing the same office space and became much more close friends and so on. And by the way, send my very warm greetings to your lovely bride, Monica, and also to your daughter, Christina.

Of course I will.

And by the way, is Christina married yet? No, she isn't married yet. We're praying about that.

Yes, I remember that very well and saw her actually, unexpectedly, when I was visiting our friends, the de Bella Barretts, in the Orlando area. And they were also staying with the Bella Barretts when I was down there.

So it was a nice time of visiting with them. Now we're going to do something that, since you haven't been on in ages, you probably haven't been on in a decade, I'm going to do something with you that we may have already done, but it has become a tradition on this program where when we have first-time guests, typically, I know you're not a first-time guest, but it's been so long, I don't even know if I ever had you give a summary of your salvation testimony on the show, because we have, since I've interviewed you last, developed that tradition where whenever we have a first-time guest, we have them give a summary of the kind of religious atmosphere they were raised in and what providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in my guests' lives that drew them to Himself and saved them.

So I will have you do the same. Tell us about your religious upbringing, if any, and how the Lord drew you to Himself.

Sure. I have terrible memories. I have good memories. Growing up as a child, you did what your parents told you to do, and you had some sense of religious obligation. But like many pre-teen age, I started to question things, and I went into a phase, I guess you would call it, what you ought to call it, at least an agnostic phase, maybe more atheistic, pure rebellion.

They tried to get me back on that religious track again to the Catholic Church, and I think they sort of gave up. The Marine Cadet, they were involved in the whole 60s scene. I don't have to elaborate what that means, but the 60s scene, the radical politics and things of that nature and dealt with that whole 60s scene.

Religion was sort of, that would be the society tick, but economics, I became very involved in that. And this just continued, 78. Then I went into the business, growing me, drawing me. My wife, Monica, she was every day trying to, I guess trying to satiate that.

I think one day when we were dating and magazine, I think it may have been a charismatic magazine, but I added it for platforming. To begin with, it's true, we were in Connecticut. The theme of it was, it's not your denomination, what you think you are, what you were born.

Why don't we go? She said, if you're going to date me, you have to come to church with me. And we had been going to Catholic church. We weren't being fed. We weren't being fulfilled. It was pagan up until that time.

To me, I remember there was a Baptist church on the corner of my house. She was drawing me to some kind of holy role or situation.

Calvary Press, Old Friends, and the New Edition of the Book

Now let's hear about your 25 years in Swedenborginism. I remember you had some connection with Heritage Baptist Church in Bayshore, I believe. Yeah, we attended there. Bayshore, New York, for our listeners.

Right, right, right.

And that turned out to be, I can't get enough of that. She looked at me that way.

Yes, that's excellent. And I remember a great portion of that whole testimony, especially the last third of it, when I knew you, after arranging that interview with you. And that actually was at the urging of our mutual friend, Pastor Bill Shishko.

I remember him telling me, oh, you've got to meet this guy, Joe Bianchi. He's an on-fire Calvinist. He is a dispensationalist. But he's a great guy. And that's how it led to that interview and to a decades-long friendship now.

And many fond memories of fellowship with you, Monica, and Christina. And I'm going to give our listeners our email address if you would like to join us on the air with a question primarily about the book we are discussing, the newly revised edition of God Chose to Save, Why Man Cannot and Will Not be Saved Apart from Election.

Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. And I think an interesting fact about this new edition of God Chose to Save is that although you own and operate Calvary Press Publishing, Solid Ground Christian Books is the publisher that brought this back into print in the new edition.

Why don't you tell us about that?

Yes, well, Mike and I, we drink a lot of water.

Did they each receive their case of whiskey yet? I'm only kidding, folks. Yes, in fact, that was one of the major things that I did for Calvary Press was get accommodations for books that were being brought into print.

And I learned the hard way that that can be a risky thing to do because sometimes you'll get a bunch of wonderful glowing commendations and then about five to ten years later you find out half of the people that you got commendations from became apostates.

Of course. I don't think I have the patience for the book. Right. Amen.

Well, it is a well-deserved book. Or should I say it's a book that well deserves commendations from men of high caliber like those men and others. I read the original version, and I have not yet gotten the new version in my hands, but I look forward to reading the new version.

Let's start off with why you wrote the book to begin with because as you know, there are many, there are scores of theological sound books coming from a Reformed perspective from both men already in heaven and men who are still alive and well on the subject of election, on the subject of all the five points of Calvinism, on the subject of general themes, broader themes of Reformed theology.

Why did you say to yourself, you know, as great as many of these books are, there's something that is not really quite being addressed in the way I want it to be addressed, so I'm going to write God Chose to Save.

What would any of those things be, if you could, the reason for your writing this book? Oh, great. So I've already read what we are presenting today, then. Wow. Okay, and when we come back from the break, I can tell you're probably using a speakerphone.

If you could move as close to that speaker as possible because it does sound a little bit like you're in a giant auditorium all by yourself.

Well, I am in a giant auditorium all by myself.

That what you just did, whatever it is, sounds 100 better. Okay, I'll move it closer. That's much better. Okay, very good. All right, we're going to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, for Joseph M. Bianchi on God Chose to Save, Why Man Cannot and Will Not Be Saved Apart from Election, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Let's say you disagree with our guest and you don't want to draw attention to your identity, or perhaps you agree with our guest and you disagree with your own pastor, you disagree with your own congregation, or perhaps you're a pastor and you disagree with your own denomination or your own fellow elders or your own congregation.

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If you live outside the USA, don't go away. We'll be right back with Joseph M. Bianchi on God Chose to Save, Why Man Cannot and Will Not Be Saved Apart from Election. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn. Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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This is Chris Arnzen, and our guest today on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio is Joseph M. Bianchi, and he is the author of the book we are discussing, God Chose to Save, Why Man Cannot, and Will Not Be Saved Apart from Election.

And our email address, if you want to join us, is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves personal and private matter.

Unconditional Election and Human Inability

Before we go to any listener questions, Joe, I want to set some definitions or have you summarize some definitions for us, because we do have not only new Christians that listen to the show, but on occasion we know that we have non-Christians listening.

We have Muslims and atheists and so on. Obviously, the primary theme of this book is a doctrine known as unconditional election. Correct. If you are a Christian and you believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, you have to believe in election.

The difference is how you exegete what that means from the Scriptures, how you define that. Precisely. And, of course, the majority of evangelicals today and the majority of those within Christendom, because, unfortunately, Calvinism, although growing, is a minority, having enjoyed a history that, at one point, I think that we may have been in the majority, at least among Baptists we were at some point in the past, of course.

But most evangelicals, to my knowledge, who are not Reformed, would say that God does elect men and women and children, but He does so because He looks into the future. He is omniscient, so He looks into the future and He goes, Oh, look, Joe Bianchi believed in me, and even though this hasn't happened yet, he hasn't even been born yet, I know Joe Bianchi is going to believe in me, so, therefore, I'm going to elect him, which really makes Joe Bianchi electing God, doesn't it?

In my Bible, too.

Not me, it's music to my ears since they support this show.

That could be Arminianism.

Right, because many, many, many, many, especially our Fundamentalist Baptist friends, refuse to identify themselves as Arminian. Right, I understand. Yes, you pluck one petal off the tulip and the whole flower dies.

In fact, I love the... Go ahead, I'm sorry. By the way, I think you did something different before the break with your headset or whatever, because you sounded a little bit clearer right before we went to the break.

I don't know if there's anything you could do, but... All right, well, what... Right now, you're sounding great. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. I just wanted to say that what I like to ask my non-Calvinist friends who do not believe in unconditional election, I ask them, is believing in Jesus in a true and trusting and loving and saving way, is that pleasing to God?

They'll say, of course it is. And then I'll read them Romans 8, starting at verse 5. Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh. But those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

Those who cannot... I'm sorry. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. So therefore, obviously, a lost person cannot summon up a faith or do anything that pleases God.

Well, of course, the free will believer, the Arminian, would say that, well...

It goes back to the question, though, if your faith is your faith pleasing to God, and the situation is here, those controlled by the flesh cannot please God, so those controlled by the flesh can't even possess a faith like that.

And that's why it has to be given to us as a gift. Okay, and we're going to be going to our longer-than-normal break in about three minutes. And when we come back, I'd like you to really define election, because there is a lot of confusion about it.

We even have an element within hyper-Calvinism that misunderstands election. I don't want to broad brush, but very prevalent among the primitive Baptists, there is a really gross error, very popular in perhaps even the majority of primitive Baptists, where they would be considered, rightfully, hyper-Calvinist.

And they seem to equate election with the entirety of salvation. In other words, they don't even believe that anything we do as Christians, whether it be evangelism, or loving acts of mercy and kindness, or anything that we do is even a means by which the lost are drawn to salvation and saved.

They believe that that's Arminian teaching, and they call it the means doctrine, and they basically say, if you're elect, you're saved. But that is not true. Obviously, you know that. And it's just a major tenet of being saved.

It's a facet on the diamond. In fact, when we come back from the break, you can perhaps even distinguish some of those facets on the diamond, like predestination, election, and adoption, and so on. But we're going to our longer-than-normal break, and if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, again, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please at least give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And we do have a number of folks waiting, hopefully patiently, to have their questions asked and answered by you, so we will get to as many of you as possible before we run out of time.

But please, those of you who want to ask a question, get in line now, as soon as you can, by sending an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. So don't go away, we'll be back right after these messages with more of Joe Bianchi.

Election, Reprobation, and the Fairness of God

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I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 1 27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows in their affliction. In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor, small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called Cabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding. What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me. As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child. If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there, so if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans? Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443, or bbclaurel .com. Thank you.

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love. Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, Long Island, New York.

Pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell. It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711 631 -696 -5711 631 -696 -5711. Hope Reform Baptist Church of Quorum, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the NASB is my Bible.

Of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule.

Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the NASB is my Bible.