October 24, 2018 Show with Dr. E Calvin Beisner on “Social Justice vs. Biblical Justice: How Good Intentions Undermine Justice & Gospel” AND Dr. Tony Costa on “The Marxist Connections to Social Justice Ideology”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth

who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this

24th day of October 2018.

You know, since the social justice issue is frequently being

discussed and debated in churches and in

institutions of higher learning and on the media and on the internet, we thought that it'd

be wise to once again have another program on this issue since we have already discussed it, even though I

should say we have already discussed it on a number of occasions, but this is the first time we're discussing it

with these two individuals.

For the first hour, I have Dr. E. Calvin Beisner on the program.

He is founder and national spokesman for the Cornwell Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation,

and he's going to be discussing a new booklet that he has written, Social Justice vs. Biblical Justice, How

Good Intentions Undermine Justice and Gospel.

The second hour, we're going to be joined by my friend Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist

Seminary, and he's going to be discussing later on the Marxist connections to social justice ideology.

But first of all, it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. E. Calvin Beisner.

Hey, very good to be back with you.

Thanks very much for having me on.

Hey, my pleasure.

And let me right away give our listeners our email address if they have questions of their own.

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Before we go on to the subject at hand, Dr. Beisner, why don't you tell our listeners about the Cornwell Alliance for

Stewardship of Creation.

Well, thanks, Chris.

Cornwell Alliance for

almost 70 years, working to educate for three things

simultaneously,

men and

women

working to love

neighbor through

a combination of

and then third, of course, Christ, and

that's what

discipleship is all

about.

So we try to work on all three of those things together

and to intertwine them.

Now, wouldn't you say in summary that most often, if not all the time,

when those on the left make claims that they are

champions for the causes of those that are less fortunate,

those that are poor, those that are starving, those that are persecuted,

that when they seek to represent those

cases on behalf of the less fortunate, when they are considering themselves to be champions for

the less fortunate, since they are not approaching these issues typically biblically, or

at the very least, they are not approaching them from an authentic

biblical perspective, even if they claim they are approaching it biblically, since they are so wrong

so often.

They are actually doing a 180 degrees reverse,

they're having a 180 degrees reverse impact upon those that are less fortunate, whether they are conscious of

it or not.

They are really usually harming those that are less fortunate rather than aiding them in any way.

Yeah, I think that's

clear back around 1980.

And in that book,

he had one of the

truly compassionate policies that requires

this.

That is an awful lot of what people, it turns

out not

to help

harm them.

Instead, that

what

we do to the

left and a

little greater

equality of income among the population at large

than

there

is, it really means.

Well, I understand that one of the reasons you wrote the booklet that we are

discussing today, by the way, this is available for free for anyone who donates to the

Cornwell Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation, an amount of any size, but we'll give you that information in

a little bit.

But your booklet, Social Justice vs. Biblical Justice, How Good Intentions Undermine Justice and

Gospel, this came about because of the paper, the

statement that you were a signer on, in fact, one of the original signers of the statement on

social justice and the gospel.

If you could, for those of our listeners who might be new listeners, they haven't heard my programs on this before or they just haven't heard

of this statement in general, why don't you tell us a summary about what this statement is

and then why you found a need, even though this statement exists in print,

you found a need to write an additional booklet on the subject.

Well,

but not one of the original

book.

In view

of the

key Christian

doctrines, and then

it

goes

on to

treat

variously, we

affirm that

society,

we

deny that there

are not

a

perfect

weaknesses in the

state

for many years,

on the meaning of

1888 and in a number of different.

So, it's been a very important subject to

bring my book, my booklet, and then

also

to.

Well, if you could, define for us, justice.

Yeah, as I

worked

through,

you

don't use

capital for

murder,

impartiality and proportion, that is the standard

of God's moral law.

How do we,

and then finally,

what is due to

people,

not

of

economic

equality.

Are you there, Cal?

Now, there are those on the left, as you know, who will say it is impossible

or perhaps a better way of phrasing it, it would be wrong, it would be unjust

for us to act as if we are working on an equal playing field and that

everybody is to be treated in exactly the same way regardless of their

skin color, their ethnicity or their socioeconomic status.

Because of the fact that you have blacks and Hispanics and perhaps Native

Americans to be added to that list, of course, numerically less in number, but those would be the

primary folks who have been persecuted, oppressed,

they still have not climbed up the ladder to be the

socioeconomic equals of whites because of persecution they have

received in the past and therefore.

We need to give them special favors now.

Yes, yes, and it seems that Asians would be left out of that equation because they excel in many things

that they seek out to do and in fact are being discriminated against in some universities,

actually.

Yeah, well, the partiality, the scripture tells us very

clearly we are not supposed to be partial, neither are we supposed to be

partial to the rich in any dispute.

That biblical principle of impartiality says that our laws should be

equally applicable

favoritism to anybody

is a key issue.

So the left will see these groups that have been disadvantaged by things that

happened in the

past

that

that group of

people has earned in order to give to another

group of people something that that group of people has not earned and to say that by doing so

we are making up for some

experienced people now

for what other people did in the past and that is

a fine economist argued in his

book In Search of Cosmic Justice that we actually do a lot of

injustice in the quest for an ideal

utopian notion of justice that we just

simply live in a fallen world where not all things stay work and we can't

always correct

before the

law.

I

think what

most people think equality of opportunity is simply that,

okay, there's no law saying that if you are of this skin color

or of this, take out a

bank loan, this

or that, something like that, right?

People think equality of

opportunity,

same chance.

And as I grew up,

people who are born to value education and reading,

read early on, have

some advantages that

we didn't have.

We cannot equalize opportunity.

We won't put legal barriers.

We have a listener, Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, and he wants to know,

from your knowledge of what is going on in economics around the

globe today and particularly here in the United States, do you see that

there is really injustice towards those of other races outside

of the white race and those who are of the female gender going on in any

major way, especially in the larger corporations and in government

institutions?

Obviously, privately owned small businesses, there may be things going on that we're unaware of,

but I'm talking about in the mainstream of things.

Do you think that the injustices towards those outside of the white race

are really going on and are women really being mistreated in this way as well?

And of course, to add something to the question, I'm assuming you would agree with me that there is really

only one race.

It's the human race, and we use that phrase wrongly, but we

understand what the listener is saying about skin color.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's only one common conversation.

It's crazy to deny that there is anything done

in favor of any

individuals.

Every time I'm doing

him

an

injustice, I

think

what

the

questioner

really

wants

to know

is that

for a number

of years and

more women

choose to do

that than men do,

so there are

people make that they earn.

When you control for the so -called wage

gap, pretty much

every

gap.

In fact, I don't know if you would agree with Shelby Steele.

Are you familiar with Shelby?

I am, yes.

He basically said that he does not believe there is any large -scale

discrimination against blacks in the United States in the corporate world

or in the government.

He believes that that is a sin of this nation that has certainly been reversed.

Yes, I would agree with him, yes.

Well, thank you, Arnie.

Keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and keep spreading the word about it in Perry County and beyond.

We're going to go to our station break.

It's going to be shorter than normal because we already ran one of the ads in that break when we lost

phone contact with Dr. Bisoner.

But if you have a question you'd like to ask of your own, send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. E. Calvin Bisoner in our discussion on social justice right after these messages.

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We are now back with Dr. E. Calvin Beisner and we are discussing social

justice.

In fact, we are specifically addressing his booklet, Social Justice vs. Biblical Justice, How Good Intentions

Undermine Justice and Gospel.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, The way

things are going, if left unchecked, could we not reasonably expect, within the

next 20 to 30 years, a situation in the United States that is a mirror image of

the way that blacks were persecuted and oppressed by whites from centuries

past through the John Crow years up until

the early 70s, where this time you will have whites being the victims.

And a reverse image will be prevalent in this country.

Isn't that something that is a no -brainer?

Terrible, terrible, terrible.

The fact is that most trends don't go in a

straight

line along

the real idea of

I don't think we're going to go back to anything similar to what

we once had.

Minors

now, they're

white.

When I graduated from college, I was an applicant for a major.

Some sciences, exams, all

these are,

you'll get it.

Not only did I not get it, and yet, my

score did

receive.

When I was

in college, you didn't get it either.

That was pretty honest.

Those things do happen.

Those things do happen, but I seriously don't think we're

that bad.

There's a trend in that direction.

Well, if you could, before we go to any more listener questions, I really want you to hammer out why this

is such an important issue and how it affects the gospel of Jesus Christ.

If you're confused about the nature of justice, you're going to be confused also about the nature of grace.

Social to the gospel.

If you're confused about the nature of grace, you're going to be confused about the nature of the gospel itself.

What social justice does is it turns justice,

when you start to treat it as a matter of grace,

against in Romans and Galatians and various other places.

Paul

tells us,

he

tells

us, whatever is of justice, not

of justice, it's in

grace.

At the same time, we're told

in Romans Chapter 13,

that the governing authorities are servants

of some

form of grace.

One reason we know that the idea of so -called positive rights that it

has not

earned is not

a good one.

So, we turn

it into, we bring

about,

people fail to understand.

Yeah, the gospel is really

antithetical to a merit -based system, which

when it comes to people achieving various goals in life in the

socio -economic sphere, that is a good thing, to have

a merit -based system.

Exactly.

And of course, it becomes a heretical and damning thing when we have that as our

gospel, that we earn it in any way.

But at the same time, it is dangerous when

people are equating the grace of the gospel with how we are to treat not

only the poor but the rich or anybody in between.

Well, you know, between how we are the

downtrodden, the government is to blame.

Right, right.

What do we mean by, if we mean the state,

but if we mean that, well, the state, the good

justice

are to

do that.

But that's God's call for the state.

He does not call me to execute justice on my neighbor.

I can do self -defense, but if my neighbor has stolen from me, I'm not

allowed to go out and capture my neighbor and

call the state me as an individual to exercise grace.

So whereas I do have to do justice in the way of

my neighbor, I can't do justice in the way of exercising vengeance.

So that's the difference between the end of Romans chapter 12, where I'll take vengeance

on others, and chapter 13 where he tells us

the

personal

need to recognize that

we as individuals are called by God in many ways to give graciously.

Simplifying the gospel, unearned,

been unharmed

in various ways.

This is quoting Isaiah, that the spirit of the

Lord God was upon him,

blind, released to the captives.

Those to do as private individuals, as voluntary associations, as churches.

Yes, in the reverse of seeking vengeance,

we have to understand as a Christian, it is our duty as a Christian,

if a murderer has savagely and grotesquely and

gruesomely murdered everyone in our entire family, but that murderer from behind bars

demonstrates genuine repentance and pleads with us for forgiveness,

we as Christians have to extend that forgiveness.

We are obligated to do that, but that does not mean that we are going to help that prisoner break out of his

prison cell.

We're not going to help him dig a tunnel out of the prison or anything like that.

And especially when that person may have killed people that are not in your family.

The difference between what God ordains

the state

individual

to do...

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who asks, Can you give us some practical

advice when discussing these very sensitive and at times explosive issues

with those who are radically in favor of this social justice

warrior mentality?

How can we convince them in a calm and logical and reasonable and

most of all biblical fashion that we are not racist, even if we are

most often accused of being so just because we oppose the social justice warrior phenomena?

That would be simply that our own demeanor, our own conduct,

we want to

do, we're going

to give, we need

to be able...

And

through

the

end

of

October...

Let's see here, we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island,

New York.

And Ronald says, One of the things that's disturbing to me about many in the

social justice warrior crowd is the hatred that seems to pour

out of many of them.

Not only hatred, but vengeance and racism itself.

It seems that many are treating white people with the same kind of bigotry that blacks have

received for centuries, and two wrongs don't make a right as the old saying

goes.

What are your comments on that?

...want to be

harmful

to evil

with

evil, but

overtreat

people common,

common among our evangelical

brothers with love...

And I'm assuming you would agree that particularly when it comes to the sins

that are often associated with the social justice warrior movement, when they are occurring

within evangelicalism, when they are occurring perhaps in our own denominations,

perhaps in our own congregations, those issues need to be treated with love at all times, as we

are always to treat others.

But at the same time, in the church, heresy and

dangerous error and aberration is not to be tolerated in the church.

Am I right?

Right.

Well, depending on what you mean by tolerated, I mean some...

Well, obviously I didn't mean that.

No, it shouldn't be.

We

need

to

trust

if they're

not

persuaded

to

agree.

Well, Cal, I'd like you to have about four minutes of time where you just summarize what you most want etched in

the hearts and minds of our listeners uninterrupted.

...cultural Marxist progressive movement that is associated with it, identity politics,

civity,

arguments of those who...

...justice

requires

someone

else to

punish...

...anybody else's right by refraining from doing that.

We can't assure everybody the same income.

...carefully read your Bible, study carefully how the words jot and write

and righteousness and righteous are used in the Bible.

Any sides to the Cornwall Alliance at CornwallAlliance .org and

ask for social justice.

Great.

That's CornwallAlliance .org.

That's C -O -R -N -W -A -L -L -Alliance .org.

Thank you so much, Dr. E. Calvin Beisner, for being on the program.

We look forward to your frequent returns to Iron Trip and Zion Radio in the future as our guest.

Thank you very much.

And don't go away, folks, because Dr. Tony Costa, who is on the faculty at Toronto Baptist Seminary,

he is the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

He is going to be continuing this theme on social justice today.

And he is more specifically going to be addressing the Marxist connections to social

justice ideology.

If you have a question of your own, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We will be right back with Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary right after

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Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

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We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs

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We just have a few upcoming events that we've got to announce before we are joined by

Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary.

First of all, next month on November 9th and the 10th I will be manning, God willing,

an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio booth exhibitor's booth at the Glory of

the Cross conference.

That's actually the Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology on the theme, The Glory of the Cross.

That's going to be held, God willing, as I said, November 9th and the 10th at Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quaker Town,

Pennsylvania.

The speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortland, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Winn.

November 9th and the 10th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

I hope as many of you as possible join me there and come and meet me during a break at the Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitor's booth November 9th and the 10th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quaker Town.

Go to AllianceNet .org AllianceNet .org, click on events and then scroll

down to the Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology.

And then, coming up in January, the G3 Conference returns to the

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.

The theme in January is The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions.

It's from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th.

The G3 Conference does have a special Spanish -speaking edition of the conference also

on Wednesday, January 16th, so tell your Spanish -speaking and bilingual friends about that Spanish conference

on Wednesday, January 16th.

But the English conference from the 17th through the 19th has an

enormous lineup of speakers, absolutely phenomenal as

they do every year, and I am just always blown away

by the size of this roster.

Dr. James R. White, John Piper, Stephen J. Lawson, Bodhi Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M. Bayway, Tim

Challies, Phil Johnson, Josh Bice, the founder of the G3 Conference, Todd Friel of

Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Stephen J. Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the college

founded by R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that roster.

If you'd like to register, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and by the way,

I strongly urge you if you have a church, parachurch, ministry, or business that you want to

promote, I would strongly urge you to also register for an

exhibitor's booth, just like the one I'll be manning at the G3 Conference because they are expecting between 4 ,000

and 5 ,000 people to attend this event.

In fact, I sure hope that my guest, Dr. Tony Costa, can man an exhibitor's booth for Toronto Baptist

Seminary.

It'd be great to share fellowship with him in the exhibitor's hall there.

But go to g3conference .com, to register for attendance or for an exhibitor's booth.

Make sure you tell them that you heard about the G3 Conference from Chris Arnson of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

By the way, the G3 stands for gospel, grace, and glory.

Last but not least, if you love Iron Trip and Zion Radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves, then please go to

irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You can donate instantly that way through a debit or credit card.

If you prefer snail mail, if you want to mail us a check, then an address will appear

automatically on your screen when you click support at irontripandzionradio .com.

You can send in a check made payable to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

The caveat that I remind you of every day is please never siphon money away from your regular giving to

your local church in order to give to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Those two things are commands of God providing for church and home.

Providing for Iron Trip and Zion Radio is obviously not a command of God, but if you love the show, you don't want it to disappear, and you

are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please

donate as heavily as you can and as frequently as you can to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Go to irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

If you'd like to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com and we will help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever

it is you want to promote is compatible with what we believe on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

You don't have to believe identically with me, but you just have to be promoting something that is compatible with what I believe.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, put advertising in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at

Toronto Baptist Seminary.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We are continuing the theme, uh,

we are continuing the theme of the Marxist connections of, or should I say, the

Marxist connections to social justice ideology.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr. Tony Costa.

Why don't you tell our listeners, for those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with Toronto Baptist Seminary, tell us about that

fine institution.

Yes, Toronto Baptist Seminary is a reformed Baptist,

and it

has been training men and women.

For, we train men

for

the

past.

Yes, of

course,.

The problem would be, though, if it became a liberal seminary, those in charge of that seminary would not

want to shut it down.

Correct, correct.

So in that case, it would become a cemetery.

That's right.

Well, also let us know about an interesting phenomenon.

You are being added to the leadership team at Oakwood

Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Canada.

Yes.

Alongside of Pastor Sule Prince, who is the senior

pastor.

I am pronouncing his name correctly, right?

Sule?

That's correct, yes.

And.

The thing that's interesting about this is that both you and Pastor Sule are theologically

reformed, and yet you are in the leadership at a Wesleyan church.

So tell us about Oakwood Wesleyan Church.

Yeah, we're two.

And.

The people have.

Our...

Well, I believe John Wesley is in heaven and he is a Calvin, so that's not happening.

Right, and he's nearest to the throne.

And for those of you who are interested in visiting the Oakwood Wesleyan

Church, if you happen to be visiting Toronto, or if you live in Toronto, we do have listeners in Toronto

and nearby.

Go to oakwoodwesleyan .org oakwoodwesleyan .org and, of course, Toronto Baptist

Seminary is tbs .edu tbs .edu.

Well, Dr. Costa, I know that as a part of your

apologetic curriculum there at Toronto Baptist Seminary, you do deal

with the issue of Marxism.

In fact, when you gave a lecture at one of my recent

Iron Trip and Zion Radio pastors' luncheons, you dealt with the negative impacts

of Marxism upon the church and society.

So, tell us about what we already had the definition of social justice ideology in

our first hour.

Give us a definition of Marxism that may seem like a no -brainer, but there may be many

people who are unfamiliar with what Karl Marx actually stood for.

There are Christians who actually think that regardless of what Karl Marx believed about

Jesus Christ, about the Bible, and about theology and doctrine, that there is much of what he

taught that was compatible in fact, maybe also

clearly biblical, not just compatible with it, because there seems to be a facade at the

very least of a very high regard for the poor and less

fortunate, wanting to elevate those who are less fortunate and impoverished above their

socio -economic status so that they can live out successful and happy lives.

There seems to be in the rhetoric of many who would even openly and

unashamedly identify themselves as Marxist, socialist, or communist, that they are

indeed continuing that

emphasis of Jesus Christ to have compassion and love for those who are

poor and less fortunate.

If you could cut through the fog here and let us know what the.

Real story is.

Well, Karl Marx was

mainly

Christian and

economic and he saw that

society, he saw that the

capitulating those who were less fortunate and he envisioned that

putting things out, the

only solution against and

abolish,

and basically

everyone would have equality or the equality

of outcome.

Now, it never fleshed out in

Marx's lifetime, but

mass law, property,

the assassination

of

cultural

Marxism, what the

cultural Marxists have

believed is that the problem was not the

economy, the problem was culture.

And that culture and

the values that Christianity and all the government,

this utopian state, what that meant was

the ideas like, we

define the family, we define sexual gender,

which

is, in order to achieve

when these Marxists, neo -Marxists came to America, they went straight to New York City,

they started teaching in Columbia University, and they

went all over America teaching this Marxist ideology, which

still to this day is

that it has now seeped into the churches, and we see it

primarily in the subjectly black

churches, all

the society

and the oppressed,

and on and on and on it

goes.

And the whole idea is that the Marxist roots of social justice basically say that what

the government should do is give more power to like a nanny, and what the government does

is it redistributes wealth.

It takes from the rich, it taxes the rich, so that they can take that extra tax money

and redistribute it.

You see the Marxist earmarks.

Marx also talked about the redistribution of wealth.

In a nutshell, in a mouthful, is basically the Marxist roots.

Now the thing that I find interesting is that when I was growing up as a kid,

I was born in 1962, and my earliest.

Remembrance.

Of issues about communism and socialism coming up in the media and so on was

probably in the 70s when I was a teenager.

I'm not saying that they didn't come up earlier than that, but I'm talking about my memory.

And then of course, in the 80s when I was in college, practically

straight up through the presidency

of Barack Obama, when you would hear accusations by conservatives

against liberals and they were being identified as either socialists

or Marxists or communists, there would be laughter, there would be mockery

of conservatives as being moronic, as being

living in the dark ages and slandering those who were liberal with these

outrageous accusations.

McCarthyism would come up about people whose lives may have been

destroyed, particularly those who were actors involved in the arts, if they were falsely

accused of being communists during the McCarthy hearings in the 1950s.

But now, you have people who are winning elections or gaining extremely

large popularity who are openly saying, yes, I am a socialist, I am a

Marxist, and you might even have some saying that they're communists, which is less frequently

uttered than the other two, it seems.

But tell us about that, this is an interesting phenomenon, isn't it?

Well, it is, and I think it's important to state that it has been the Democrats in particular

that have been advocates of cultural Marxism.

And the idea here is that we should have open borders,

and

borders, now think of this, Chris, with all these Hondurians moving up, and

then the ones

who hold to a globalist ideology, no, just let them in, and so

forth.

So, I think there's something so diabolical here, Chris,

he called that, I will make of

you a great nation, and I will make your name great.

Now, this is important, because what it shows us is that God

created nations out of Adam, and what we see in this globalist agenda is almost

a pushback.

This Marxist ideology is, you'll notice it's the Democrats that far and wide have

been supporting this idea of Bernie Sanders, for instance,

and it's the Republicans who have been maintaining that, no, we need to

maintain the importance of the individual.

Marxism

emphasizes identity,

odd man out,

ideology.

Let me repeat our email address, if anybody has any questions that they would like to ask

of Dr. Tony Acosta, it is chrisorenson at gmail .com chrisorenson at

gmail .com and please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of

residence, if you live outside the USA.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who said, I heard Chrisorenson's interview

with Pastor Sule Prince, your pastor, there in Toronto, at the Oakwood Wesleyan

Church, and I happen to know that he is a black Christian.

Can you tell us what you know of his own personal responses to the social justice warrior movement?

Yes, Pastor Sule's responses,

same

page on

that,

and for that, but he sees it for what it is,

his ideology, but they

don't care about.

Black Lives Matter, for

example,.

He's on the same page.

Well, thank you, Susan Margaret, keep listening to the program and spreading the word in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania

and beyond.

One thing that we hear come up a lot by socialists,

whether they are professing to be Christian or just like to use the Bible as

a weapon against those who are Christians, like Michael Moore would frequently do,

but we go to the classic passage in Acts chapter 2, verse 45,

and it says in regard to Christians or the church, or members of the church,

they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all as

anyone might have need.

The New International version puts it, they sold property and possessions to give to anyone

who had need, and they'll say, see, there you go, that's the early church acting as

socialists or, dare I say, communists.

Now, how do you respond to that?

Yes, that's the text that

has held all

things in.

This is dealing with the early church,

and secondly, I

think we need to be careful not telling

what should always be, but it's

not a blueprint in

Acts 1, told in Acts 2, that they

frequent and met daily.

We don't do that today.

I

think

we need to understand

that

it's coming in and then

in Acts, that is,

because now the church has gone beyond the environs of Jerusalem.

The danger here is it's

simply not good enough.

All right, we have to go to our final break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, send it now or forever hold your peace, because we're going to be out of time

before you know it.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Tony Costa.

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Welcome back.

We are going to be with Dr. Tony Costa for about 15 more minutes.

We are discussing the Marxist connections to social injustice, social justice ideology,

excuse the Freudian slip there.

The Marxist connections to social justice ideology.

If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Before we go to any more listener questions, Dr. Costa, I want to go back to the

text we were citing in the book of Acts chapter 2, verse

45 specifically.

There are a couple of other things that set it apart, radically set it apart from socialism or communism.

First of all, these were voluntary acts of compassion, benevolence

and love.

They weren't enforced upon the members of the church.

Also, this was not an effort to make everyone on an exact

same socioeconomic footing.

It wasn't like everybody in the congregation needs to make the exact amount of

money, everything that is above a determined wage

will be taken from that individual and distributed evenly to everyone else.

I would even say that, even in the 21st century, if a church

actually has somebody in need, not somebody who just wants something, but somebody who is actually

in need, they are a member of the church and the church doesn't

at this moment have the finances and savings or in their checking

account to help this person in need, I think that the church would be

obliged in some way to have the sale of some

possessions in order to make sure the needs of the member of the church were met.

I don't even think that that's necessarily an outdated concept, but it's not

socialism or.

Communism.

No, no, your

act is not

saying

to

understand once again.

Again, it doesn't...

Okay, we have, let's see here, we have Bobby in

Hartsdale, New York, and he asks, I know that you disagree

with the social justice warrior movement on many fronts, but how is it specifically

jeopardizing the gospel message?

It's jeopardizing the gospel message because what social justice does is it...

...individual identity, and it also

...against

the

oppressed,

and no

male,

no female, but you are one

in...of

another.

...apologize for what was...

...condemn what was

done during the Holocaust.

So at the end of the day, this...

Now, if you have a Christian who is old enough to have

actually been a part of the... gleefully a part of supporting the Jim Crow

laws and who has actually personally

oppressed or treated those of another color, or treated anybody for that matter,

with hateful or harmful activity, that

person does need to repent and to seek forgiveness, but when you are

demanding that a whole group of people, just because of what color their skin is, that they

ask for forgiveness for something they didn't personally do, it's really absurd.

Well, absolutely.

I mean, it's like

asking...

You need to apologize.

If you really think about the continent of Africa, even prior to... there were black slave masters from Africa.

Their descendants in the United States can be traced.

Should we demand that they also be enslaved and so forth?

Who's the most oppressed?

At the end of the day...

We have Linda in Hilltop Lakes, Texas, who says, It is my

understanding that justice and righteousness come from the same Greek word, and therefore

can there be social justice without social righteousness?

It seems the more unrighteous a people become, the more intervention by the state is

required to maintain order.

Is she correct on that?

Well, she's correct in a sense that in the social justice movement, they want to give more power to the government.

So that way...and the government

also has...but

the other

thing we need

to bear in mind Chris, is that whenever we put a certain

adjective...when we talk about justice, we put the word social in front of it.

It's like the word...it changes the meaning.

Because justice, society, we want justice.

The opposite of justice is injustice.

When we say social justice, well,

justice...what they mean by that is, we want

equality of outcome in the United States.

We want these marginalized groups to have an

equal share.

In other words, social justice means receiving

the...once again, it's...and

redistribute that wealth.

It's basically between the haves and the have -nots.

And those who have...

And as you can see...

Was Linda correct in her understanding that justice and righteousness come from the same Greek word?

Yes, she is correct.

That the word dikaio means righteous.

Well, thank you, Linda.

Keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio in Hilltop Lakes, Texas and spreading the word there and beyond.

Thank you so much for your faithful listening to our program and also for your

generous and benevolent financial support of this program.

Thank you and your husband, Glenn.

We are indebted to you both and we love you both.

Thank you so much.

I have come to believe that much of what

is said in the social justice warrior movement, much of what is

declared and demanded, and I would add to this within Marxism

and Socialism and Communism, it involves three very serious

sins on the part of those in those movements.

That is the sin of covetousness.

They want wealth that does not belong to them.

It involves actual theft.

Not that they're breaking through people's windows and climbing into their houses and stealing things, but when they do

get their way on occasion, that is actually stealing from other citizens in regards to the

tax payments that are distributed in the fashion that they are

demanding.

And also it involves vengeance.

There is a desire to seek vengeance, it seems, upon those that are more fortunate

financially and in other socioeconomic ways.

There seems to be an attitude of vengeance.

I don't care if you were personally involved in the oppression of my family and my people.

You're going to pay anyway just because of the fact that you happen to have a certain skin color or lack of color.

If you could comment on what I said.

I couldn't say it better myself, Chris.

That's exactly right.

You see, the dear quality of outcome,

well, what this does is it educational pursuits and so

forth.

Why bother your base of knowledge to

equality of opportunity is what the West was built on.

Equality of opportunity says look, if you work hard and you apply yourself, you can make

something of yourself.

If you work and earn, you

can save your money, you can go to

something of yourself.

That is available in the United States.

And so, this is the principle God laid down, that by the sweat of your brow,

you shall eat your bread.

In other words, you have to work.

What he's saying is, no,

everyone's entitled, and so they're entitled to it.

It doesn't solve the problem.

It's getting it as

nothing but a basically a stymies

growth.

As I've always said,

I look at modern day China, and it's interesting that China, even though it's communist, has adopted the capitalist free market

methodology.

And that's why they're so economically successful.

But there's no freedom of speech, there's no freedom of assembly, there's no freedom of religion.

And so, at the end of the day, it's really a mob

against those who have these white farmers.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, spread the word to all of your pastors, and to

men in leadership, that Dr. Tony Costa, God willing, is going to be our speaker once

again at the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

We are working on the date of December 27th, which is a Thursday.

It's not etched in stone yet.

But please, at least mark it on your calendar with pencil right now, and tell your

pastors, your deacons, and other men in leadership that all are invited as long as

they register for this free Pastors Luncheon.

We are looking forward to this very much, having Tony Costa back here in this area.

I want you to remember that the website for Toronto Baptist Seminary is tbs .edu

and also the website for Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Canada is oakwoodwesleyan .org.

Oakwoodwesleyan .org.

Thank you so much, Dr. Costa.

We look forward to your return, not only soon, but very frequently, to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Always a pleasure, Chris.

Thank you.

And I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.