October 24, 2018 Show with Dr. E Calvin Beisner on “Social Justice vs. Biblical Justice: How Good Intentions Undermine Justice & Gospel” AND Dr. Tony Costa on “The Marxist Connections to Social Justice Ideology”

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Opens With Proverbs 27:17

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 24th day of October 2018.

You know, since the social justice issue is frequently being discussed and debated in churches and in institutions of higher learning and on the media and on the internet, we thought that it'd be wise to once again have another program on this issue since we have already discussed it, even though I should say we have already discussed it on a number of occasions, but this is the first time we're discussing it with these two individuals.

Biblical Justice, Social Justice, and the Cornwell Alliance

For the first hour, I have Dr. E. Calvin Beisner on the program. He is founder and national spokesman for the Cornwell Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation, and he's going to be discussing a new booklet that he has written, Social Justice vs. Biblical Justice, How Good Intentions Undermine Justice and Gospel.

The second hour, we're going to be joined by my friend Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, and he's going to be discussing later on the Marxist connections to social justice ideology.

But first of all, it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. E. Calvin Beisner.

Hey, very good to be back with you. Thanks very much for having me on.

Hey, my pleasure. And let me right away give our listeners our email address if they have questions of their own. It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Before we go on to the subject at hand, Dr. Beisner, why don't you tell our listeners about the Cornwell Alliance for Stewardship of Creation.

Well, thanks, Chris. Cornwell Alliance for almost 70 years, working to educate for three things simultaneously, men and women working to love neighbor through a combination of and then third, of course, Christ, and that's what discipleship is all about.

So we try to work on all three of those things together and to intertwine them.

Now, wouldn't you say in summary that most often, if not all the time, when those on the left make claims that they are champions for the causes of those that are less fortunate, those that are poor, those that are starving, those that are persecuted, that when they seek to represent those cases on behalf of the less fortunate, when they are considering themselves to be champions for the less fortunate, since they are not approaching these issues typically biblically, or at the very least, they are not approaching them from an authentic biblical perspective, even if they claim they are approaching it biblically, since they are so wrong so often.

They are actually doing a 180 degrees reverse, they're having a 180 degrees reverse impact upon those that are less fortunate, whether they are conscious of it or not. They are really usually harming those that are less fortunate rather than aiding them in any way.

Yeah, I think that's clear back around 1980. And in that book, he had one of the truly compassionate policies that requires this. That is an awful lot of what people, it turns out not to help harm them.

Instead, that what we do to the left and a little greater equality of income among the population at large than there is, it really means.

Well, I understand that one of the reasons you wrote the booklet that we are discussing today, by the way, this is available for free for anyone who donates to the Cornwell Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation, an amount of any size, but we'll give you that information in a little bit.

But your booklet, Social Justice vs. Biblical Justice, How Good Intentions Undermine Justice and Gospel, this came about because of the paper, the statement that you were a signer on, in fact, one of the original signers of the statement on social justice and the gospel.

If you could, for those of our listeners who might be new listeners, they haven't heard my programs on this before or they just haven't heard of this statement in general, why don't you tell us a summary about what this statement is and then why you found a need, even though this statement exists in print, you found a need to write an additional booklet on the subject.

Well, but not one of the original book. In view of the key Christian doctrines, and then it goes on to treat variously, we affirm that society, we deny that there are not a perfect weaknesses in the state for many years, on the meaning of 1888 and in a number of different.

So, it's been a very important subject to bring my book, my booklet, and then also to.

Well, if you could, define for us, justice.

Yeah, as I worked through, you don't use capital for murder, impartiality and proportion, that is the standard of God's moral law. How do we, and then finally, what is due to people, not of economic equality.

Are you there, Cal? Now, there are those on the left, as you know, who will say it is impossible or perhaps a better way of phrasing it, it would be wrong, it would be unjust for us to act as if we are working on an equal playing field and that everybody is to be treated in exactly the same way regardless of their skin color, their ethnicity or their socioeconomic status.

Because of the fact that you have blacks and Hispanics and perhaps Native Americans to be added to that list, of course, numerically less in number, but those would be the primary folks who have been persecuted, oppressed, they still have not climbed up the ladder to be the socioeconomic equals of whites because of persecution they have received in the past and therefore.

We need to give them special favors now.

Yes, yes, and it seems that Asians would be left out of that equation because they excel in many things that they seek out to do and in fact are being discriminated against in some universities, actually.

Yeah, well, the partiality, the scripture tells us very clearly we are not supposed to be partial, neither are we supposed to be partial to the rich in any dispute. That biblical principle of impartiality says that our laws should be equally applicable favoritism to anybody is a key issue.

So the left will see these groups that have been disadvantaged by things that happened in the past that that group of people has earned in order to give to another group of people something that that group of people has not earned and to say that by doing so we are making up for some experienced people now for what other people did in the past and that is a fine economist argued in his book In Search of Cosmic Justice that we actually do a lot of injustice in the quest for an ideal utopian notion of justice that we just simply live in a fallen world where not all things stay work and we can't always correct before the law.

I think what most people think equality of opportunity is simply that, okay, there's no law saying that if you are of this skin color or of this, take out a bank loan, this or that, something like that, right?

People think equality of opportunity, same chance. And as I grew up, people who are born to value education and reading, read early on, have some advantages that we didn't have. We cannot equalize opportunity.

We won't put legal barriers.

We have a listener, Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, and he wants to know, from your knowledge of what is going on in economics around the globe today and particularly here in the United States, do you see that there is really injustice towards those of other races outside of the white race and those who are of the female gender going on in any major way, especially in the larger corporations and in government institutions?

Obviously, privately owned small businesses, there may be things going on that we're unaware of, but I'm talking about in the mainstream of things. Do you think that the injustices towards those outside of the white race are really going on and are women really being mistreated in this way as well?

And of course, to add something to the question, I'm assuming you would agree with me that there is really only one race. It's the human race, and we use that phrase wrongly, but we understand what the listener is saying about skin color.

Yeah. Yeah, there's only one common conversation. It's crazy to deny that there is anything done in favor of any individuals. Every time I'm doing him an injustice, I think what the questioner really wants to know is that for a number of years and more women choose to do that than men do, so there are people make that they earn.

When you control for the so-called wage gap, pretty much every gap.

In fact, I don't know if you would agree with Shelby Steele. Are you familiar with Shelby?

I am, yes.

He basically said that he does not believe there is any large-scale discrimination against blacks in the United States in the corporate world or in the government. He believes that that is a sin of this nation that has certainly been reversed.

Yes, I would agree with him, yes.

Well, thank you, Arnie. Keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and keep spreading the word about it in Perry County and beyond. We're going to go to our station break. It's going to be shorter than normal because we already ran one of the ads in that break when we lost phone contact with Dr. Bisoner.

But if you have a question you'd like to ask of your own, send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. E. Calvin Bisoner in our discussion on social justice right after these messages.

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The Gospel, Grace, and the Difference Between Justice and Vengeance

We are now back with Dr. E. Calvin Beisner and we are discussing social justice. In fact, we are specifically addressing his booklet, Social Justice vs. Biblical Justice, How Good Intentions Undermine Justice and Gospel.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, The way things are going, if left unchecked, could we not reasonably expect, within the next 20 to 30 years, a situation in the United States that is a mirror image of the way that blacks were persecuted and oppressed by whites from centuries past through the John Crow years up until the early 70s, where this time you will have whites being the victims.

And a reverse image will be prevalent in this country. Isn't that something that is a no-brainer?

Terrible, terrible, terrible. The fact is that most trends don't go in a straight line along the real idea of I don't think we're going to go back to anything similar to what we once had. Minors now, they're white.

When I graduated from college, I was an applicant for a major. Some sciences, exams, all these are, you'll get it. Not only did I not get it, and yet, my score did receive. When I was in college, you didn't get it either.

That was pretty honest.

Those things do happen. Those things do happen, but I seriously don't think we're that bad. There's a trend in that direction.

Well, if you could, before we go to any more listener questions, I really want you to hammer out why this is such an important issue and how it affects the gospel of Jesus Christ.

If you're confused about the nature of justice, you're going to be confused also about the nature of grace. Social to the gospel. If you're confused about the nature of grace, you're going to be confused about the nature of the gospel itself.

What social justice does is it turns justice, when you start to treat it as a matter of grace, against in Romans and Galatians and various other places. Paul tells us, he tells us, whatever is of justice, not of justice, it's in grace.

At the same time, we're told in Romans Chapter 13, that the governing authorities are servants of some form of grace. One reason we know that the idea of so-called positive rights that it has not earned is not a good one.

So, we turn it into, we bring about, people fail to understand.

Yeah, the gospel is really antithetical to a merit-based system, which when it comes to people achieving various goals in life in the socio-economic sphere, that is a good thing, to have a merit-based system.

Exactly. And of course, it becomes a heretical and damning thing when we have that as our gospel, that we earn it in any way. But at the same time, it is dangerous when people are equating the grace of the gospel with how we are to treat not only the poor but the rich or anybody in between.

Well, you know, between how we are the downtrodden, the government is to blame.

Right, right.

What do we mean by, if we mean the state, but if we mean that, well, the state, the good justice are to do that. But that's God's call for the state. He does not call me to execute justice on my neighbor.

I can do self-defense, but if my neighbor has stolen from me, I'm not allowed to go out and capture my neighbor and call the state me as an individual to exercise grace. So whereas I do have to do justice in the way of my neighbor, I can't do justice in the way of exercising vengeance.

So that's the difference between the end of Romans chapter 12, where I'll take vengeance on others, and chapter 13 where he tells us the personal need to recognize that we as individuals are called by God in many ways to give graciously.

Simplifying the gospel, unearned, been unharmed in various ways. This is quoting Isaiah, that the spirit of the Lord God was upon him, blind, released to the captives. Those to do as private individuals, as voluntary associations, as churches.

Yes, in the reverse of seeking vengeance, we have to understand as a Christian, it is our duty as a Christian, if a murderer has savagely and grotesquely and gruesomely murdered everyone in our entire family, but that murderer from behind bars demonstrates genuine repentance and pleads with us for forgiveness, we as Christians have to extend that forgiveness.

We are obligated to do that, but that does not mean that we are going to help that prisoner break out of his prison cell. We're not going to help him dig a tunnel out of the prison or anything like that.

And especially when that person may have killed people that are not in your family.

The difference between what God ordains the state individual to do...

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who asks, Can you give us some practical advice when discussing these very sensitive and at times explosive issues with those who are radically in favor of this social justice warrior mentality?

How can we convince them in a calm and logical and reasonable and most of all biblical fashion that we are not racist, even if we are most often accused of being so just because we oppose the social justice warrior phenomena?

That would be simply that our own demeanor, our own conduct, we want to do, we're going to give, we need to be able... And through the end of October...

Let's see here, we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York. And Ronald says, One of the things that's disturbing to me about many in the social justice warrior crowd is the hatred that seems to pour out of many of them.

Not only hatred, but vengeance and racism itself. It seems that many are treating white people with the same kind of bigotry that blacks have received for centuries, and two wrongs don't make a right as the old saying goes.

What are your comments on that?

...want to be harmful to evil with evil, but overtreat people common, common among our evangelical brothers with love...

And I'm assuming you would agree that particularly when it comes to the sins that are often associated with the social justice warrior movement, when they are occurring within evangelicalism, when they are occurring perhaps in our own denominations, perhaps in our own congregations, those issues need to be treated with love at all times, as we are always to treat others.

But at the same time, in the church, heresy and dangerous error and aberration is not to be tolerated in the church. Am I right?

Right. Well, depending on what you mean by tolerated, I mean some...

Well, obviously I didn't mean that.

No, it shouldn't be. We need to trust if they're not persuaded to agree.

Well, Cal, I'd like you to have about four minutes of time where you just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners uninterrupted.

...cultural Marxist progressive movement that is associated with it, identity politics, civity, arguments of those who... ...justice requires someone else to punish... ...anybody else's right by refraining from doing that.

We can't assure everybody the same income. ...carefully read your Bible, study carefully how the words jot and write and righteousness and righteous are used in the Bible. Any sides to the Cornwall Alliance at CornwallAlliance .org and ask for social justice.

Great. That's CornwallAlliance .org. That's C-O-R-N-W-A-L-L-Alliance .org. Thank you so much, Dr. E. Calvin Beisner, for being on the program. We look forward to your frequent returns to Iron Trip and Zion Radio in the future as our guest.

Thank you very much. And don't go away, folks, because Dr. Tony Costa, who is on the faculty at Toronto Baptist Seminary, he is the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. He is going to be continuing this theme on social justice today.

And he is more specifically going to be addressing the Marxist connections to social justice ideology. If you have a question of your own, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We will be right back with Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary right after these messages from our sponsor. Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc. Have a great day.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions.

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That's 800 -656 -0231 or cvbbs .com. We just have a few upcoming events that we've got to announce before we are joined by Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary. First of all, next month on November 9th and the 10th I will be manning, God willing, an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio booth exhibitor's booth at the Glory of the Cross conference.

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Go to AllianceNet .org AllianceNet .org, click on events and then scroll down to the Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology. And then, coming up in January, the G3 Conference returns to the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.

The theme in January is The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions. It's from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th. The G3 Conference does have a special Spanish-speaking edition of the conference also on Wednesday, January 16th, so tell your Spanish-speaking and bilingual friends about that Spanish conference on Wednesday, January 16th.

But the English conference from the 17th through the 19th has an enormous lineup of speakers, absolutely phenomenal as they do every year, and I am just always blown away by the size of this roster. Dr. James R. White, John Piper, Stephen J. Lawson, Bodhi Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M. Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, Josh Bice, the founder of the G3 Conference, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Stephen J. Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that roster.