Episode 77: The Pastor's Heart

The rule church podcast, that's kind of a lame introduction. I think you should do it Eddie.

Welcome to the rule church podcast. The number 58 seed. It's gonna be over. Yeah by the time people hear this that that will have happened a lot of things will have happened. Will will. Will the Eclipse have happened by the time this comes out?

Actually, yeah, this one's this one's coming out should come out April 10th, so okay, so pretty well scheduled right now.

Yeah, all right. Well. So a lot of we're we're a few weeks out from those events about a month.

Actually, but yeah looking forward to a lot of things that are coming up. Yeah, I've got pastor Jacob Ray home coming in this weekend. Next weekend we're going to the Covenant conference and then we have and then before the Eclipse I'm going to Texas I'm preaching for my friend rental Easter and their Easter week Conference at by the word Baptist Church in Hazel, Texas, and then the Eclipse we're having revival services.

Preaching like all this is going to already be in the past by the time this episode comes out.

That's right, and I'm I'm leaving out this weekend. I'm going to The Kansas to be with our brothers Steve Burchett and Jim Elliffe and those guys up. They're gonna go worship with them and their Lord's Day meeting and Then have a couple days of Bible intensive.

So pretty excited about that.

The Pastor Must Be a Faithful Preacher and Teacher

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Well brother, we should jump in a few things. We're going to talk about today one. We ought to give credit where credit's due. I listened to a Podcast recently the backwoods Baptist podcast the episode where our friend Harold Smith talked about God Give us more pastors and not Preachers, so we'll talk about that and then we have the idea of pastors as evangelist and as Evangelist as pastors and sort of walking through all that.

But really I guess the main I think the title of this episode is going to be this the pastor's.

Heart.

Mm-hmm, and so. One of the things also state this up front Eddie and let's be clear Absolutely, the pastor must have a heart for preaching and teaching the scriptures, right? He must be a faithful preacher it doesn't mean that everyone has to be a John MacArthur or R. C. Sproul or Paul Washer or Vodie Bockham?

Those are special men. And special gifts, but you do have to be a faithful preacher and you do have to hunger for preaching. You have to be willing to hone your craft as it were to even be willing to take critique.

How can you preach better? I know one of the things I do on this podcast because I have to go back and do the Production and stuff I say, you know a lot more than I even realized and it's frustrating.

So I try to think about that that's it's really gonna come across bad because You hear so many you knows and knowing that I'm trying to think about it and they still come out but you know things like that.

Things like that that come up in in preaching you want to be able to Hone your craft be a better preacher be a better communicator. So I'm not taking away from that at all. Maybe we'll do a whole episode on preaching and teaching that Absolutely is your primary task?

Give yourself to the Word of God in prayer. But when you hear the word a pastor's heart. Having that caveat that's obviously part of the pastor's heart. What do you think of?

A Pastor's Heart Includes Shepherding, Care, and Service

Well, you know Jesus tells Peter When he's reinstating him after the resurrection Feed my lambs and we would say that's right. We got to preach we got to feed the sheep. But he also says tend them you know a pastor is a shepherd and if the only thing the shepherd does is Go out and pour out the feed.

You know or push that or lead the sheep over to where there's some other green grass, but then he goes and Finds a good shade tree and takes a nap and just lets the wolves come in. Let's the sheep drift off get lost.

The shepherd we would say well that guy's not doing his job, right? He's not he's not being responsible. For everything he's supposed to be doing he's doing one thing Making sure they've got something to eat, but he's not Doing all the things the shepherds called do and so yeah I think the idea of the pastor the idea of the under shepherd of Christ is That we're to care for the people in the church.

And that means we're supposed to be looking after their spiritual well-being not just from the pulpit or from the the main teaching, you know of our In our service times but also That means counseling that means praying with that means being there, you know to minister and to serve them in important moments that are happening in their lives and I think sometimes a lot of people have kind of got it in their head that well I'm just gonna go in I'm gonna preach and You know, the Lord's gonna do what he's gonna do if it's supposed to grow it'll grow and not really having a heart for evangelism going out to reach the lost and not really even sometimes having a heart to.

You know go to the hospital or or to be there to meet the needs of our people when they're suffering and they need.

They need that kind of pastoral care. Yeah, I see the pastor's heart. I think it's all good brother. I see the pastor's heart with the caveat of the primacy of preaching as also Serving the church. I Understand that you have deacons that serve and serve the physical needs, but I'll just give you some Real life stories this just happened Sunday.

There was a situation Sunday where Like two minutes before Sunday school was starting there was a bathroom Situation a men's bathroom toilet was overflowing. Well our other pastor here pastor Jacob like runs to the the aid.

You know and he's helping with that now. There were some other men jumping in helping. Everybody's kind of getting a mop a bucket and all this thing. Oh actually one of the guys end up getting a little bleach on his shirt.

So I was grateful, you know for his sacrifice and all that. But but one of the things that I want to commend about pastor Jacob is he could have said look my primary Responsibility here is the ministry of the word and prayer.

You guys handle this. But it says something about his character to Jump in there and help Serving the church now. I think that I don't think that pastors are called to fix toilets or whatever. But it says something about their character if they're not willing to do that.

Does that make does that make sense?

The Pastor Is Also a Church Member Who Models Humility

Yeah, and and let's remember Yes, it would be ideal if All the time in ministry there were plenty of people to help to take up the slack to do that stuff. You know, you know so that we're free to. But but let's be honest.

We're talking about the rule church. This is the rule church podcast.

Yeah, and.

The reality in the most rule churches is If you've got the mentality of I'm here to preach I'm gonna preach guys. You guys take care of all that other stuff. That's just not gonna work because there's probably just not.

Whether it's the resources when it comes to finances and things like that and just the manpower resources. For the pastor to be able to just check out of all that kind of stuff I do believe it's just probably not probably not feasible to some degree for the pastor not to have some involvement.

I'm not saying we got to be the ones, you know crawling under the church van.

You know, but you but you might have to that's right and there needs to be a willingness. So, let me speak to the pastor and then I'll speak to the churches. So there is the mindset. Or let me let me back up for a second there is Yeah mindsets.

Okay. There's the mindset that the pastor ought to have that. I'm willing to serve these people. I'm willing to serve To help. I'm willing to move a table. I'm willing to cook a pancake. I'm willing to do whatever I can to love these people.

Well now I would also say that churches need to do a better job of clearing the pastor's schedule so that he can give his Undivided focus to the ministry of the word and prayer. So there's kind of a both and but like you say in the rural context a Pastor ought to be one time.

This is weird one time. I went and helped find a calf. That sounds like something you should. Well, that's rural church podcast for you. But the point is The idea the pastor needs to have the mentality that I want to serve these people.

I want to love these people. I want to walk through their trials. I want to walk through their victories. I want to feed them the Word of God. But then I'm going to come down from a pulpit and I'm gonna walk among the people and I'm going to show them.

This is what it looks like because I believe not everybody would agree with this. But I believe that first and foremost a pastor. He's a Christian first, obviously, but he's he's a church.

Member.

He is a member of.

The local church, that's right. And so.

There are things that we expect members of the local church To do and to be willing to do that a pastor also should model now again I do think churches most churches I've been a part of now our church is doing a better job at this.

But most churches I've been a part of in the past have not done a great job at making sure. Hey, brother. Let us get these tables you spend more time and study or how about this everybody else is cleaning up.

Why don't you have some conversation with our visitors? Why don't you have some conversation with you? You know free your it's not okay. So a pastor should not be above physical labor. He should do these things.

But there should also at the same time like in my vision like a perfect scenario. He's going up. He's folding up the table. He's taking it but someone's stopping and say hey brother. You don't do this.

You let me do this. Mm-hmm, you go over and minister to that family. Right, that's the part but but there should be that mentality there of I'm willing to serve the church when we go to Mexico. They do a great job.

At trying to make sure we're only there for the ministry of the word and prayer, you know. But we're still looking for opportunities and when we can we take we take opportunities to. Do the mundane? We need more men like that because it is a dangerous for us to say Eddie because we're on a podcast.

But today we have too many guys that are worried about platforms podcast protest whatever whatever one alliterated word you can come up with and they're less worried about. Pastoral ministry in a pastoral heart.

You can preach you can preach. There's been a lot of people in the history of the world that have been good public speakers. The the fact that you can preach in and of itself Does not necessarily make you a humble Christian or even necessarily a Christian at all.

The devil's a preacher.

Evangelists Need a Pastoral Heart, and Pastors Need an Evangelistic Heart

That's right. That's right. You know you think about. Even where opportunity to serve people with God's Word and even to share the gospel with lost people comes from and sometimes it comes from the fact that we're Being involved in some of these other things they're taking place.

For example this last weekend local Recovery ministry that we are a part of we have a women's recovery Drug recovery ministry that our churches is a part of where we teach the Bible. Every week to these women and and and it's it's just a great thing the Lord's blessing and drawing people to himself.

But they had a banquet this last weekend. Well. Because of my involvement with that program I was asked to pray. Well, they had had some testimony shared and they had had some law enforcement Officers that shared at the banquet about the good things the program was doing all those kinds of things.

It was fine. It was all very good. The gospel had not been shared. So I had the opportunity to pray at the end and because of Now most of what I do is teaching the Bible even in regards to that program.

So it's still word ministry in that sense. But because of that I had the opportunity to then share the gospel to proclaim the gospel In that banquet. Well, if I had been hey, my job is to preach on Sunday mornings.

That's what that's what I do. That's all I've got. That's all I do. Well, then I wouldn't have had that opportunity to proclaim the gospel In a different setting probably to some people who weren't believers.

So if we have this idea that man, it's I've just I've just got to preach on Sunday morning, that's my thing. We're just gonna lose other opportunities and I've seen that you guys this last weekend. I think you guys were in the nursing home yeah, and some ministry and if you say well, man, we just got to do the the ministry of the church or whatever.

We're gonna miss out on opportunities Both to preach the gospel to unbelievers and to serve believers. Well with God's Word.

Yeah, no, I yeah, I agree with that. I think. And and one of the things I'm seeing here So you you have various guys guys are doing the platform thing. You also have Praise God for the movement of Evangelists that you have in the world today and in praise God for that.

But but some cautions I'm seeing is Evangelists exist in service of the church now we could talk about is there an office of evangelists or not? My friend Michael Coughlin had mentioned a book I need to read I think it's something about called the third office or something like that that we need more Evangelist.

I know that Timothy is told in 1st Timothy or 2nd Timothy 4 or 5 right do the work of an evangelist, you know. So some things that we could think through with all that but but I made this statement yesterday That most pastors or at least many pastors that I observed could use more of an evangelistic heart.

And many evangelists that I observed could use more of a pastoral heart. What I mean is We need both it's not an either-or we need a both and we need we need a pastor's heart a pastor's heart includes an Evangelistic heart and an evangelist heart should include a pastor's heart by that I mean an evangelist should be willing to serve the church to be with the with with the body and I think that the pastor should be willing to Evangelize, I don't know.

Anyway you thoughts about that? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

You know all Christians are called to evangelize or to share the gospel to get the gospel out and then you know When we think of proclaiming the gospel, of course The church is not going to be more Evangelistic than the elders than the pastors are it's just not going to happen.

But when we think about what even is the evangelist to be doing? Well, really the evangelist is to be helping to equip the other believers to be more evangelistic and if our only thought is You know to notch the gun, you know, you know, how many how many people that I pass a tract out to?

And instead of thinking about Man, how can I really engage with people? I think a Lot of times as pastors our opportunity to have a more pastoral heart and evangelism is To is to really think in terms of I'm trying to engage these people.

Like real people I think sometimes almost and this is probably even beyond evangelism we can almost have a a hyper polemic or a hyper apologist Kind of mindset that maybe isn't even evangelistic at all.

But but that comes across that way some I mean, it's a presented as we're out here to preach the gospel but but really what we're out here to do is is to be polemic or even a.

Apologetic in that sense, I'm and I'm not picking on evangelist because you have Praise God for the movement of evangelist. Oh, yeah, we need it. We need it.

I mean, it's the other problem has been prevalent for a long time. We we just do come and see events. We don't go out and that's right.

But I'm saying this this whole thing is a heart issue. Mm-hmm. It's actually the same heart issue. So the pastors are like I just want to preach I don't care about serving the church. The evangelists that are just like I want to preach I don't care about serving the church.

It's the same heart problem, right? That is the true pastor heart is a shepherd's heart is a heart. I'm just using a different word, but it means the same thing pastor shepherd. It's a heart that not only wants to teach and preach.

Yes. Amen priority we give that but it's a heart that wants to love and equip and fellowship and serve and help and Weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice.

You know, maybe another thought and I'd love to get your get your thought on this. Maybe even if we we remember the other words the New Testament Uses to refer to pastors actually the words that uses more often.

So Episcopal and presbyter off the overseers the elders. This kind of heart is a mature. Mmm art this kind of heart is a heart that taking responsibility for the oversight of the people and probably both evangelists and Pastors in the pulpit Need to have that more mature that elder that presbyter off's heart need to have that Responsible that taking not just authority but responsibility For the things taking place in the congregation.

Kind of heart. I think sometimes whether it's pastors or evangelists, we can have a little bit of a You know the the gunslinger coming to town Kind of idea where oh, I'm not responsible for it. I'm just here to preach the gospel.

Whatever whatever happens that's not well. No as overseers. And our heart is that we're responsible for Some things we're not responsible for how what how people respond, of course, but we are responsible for how we lead and shepherd and tend.

The congregation oversee what's happening in the congregation and we are responsible to be mature in the way that we engage with people, especially when we take into the account that. You know, we think of I think of dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones, but this is soul work the diagnosis the the the kind of Doctoral work that we're doing is soul work and it's really important and we ought to we ought to do that with a gravity.

And a maturity that sometimes we don't do that with. I think it's the first year seminary student. It's like I just want to preach. Well, I mean like that's Amen, you know, like what can you imagine scenario is like all you do is you walk in you preach you walk out.

You know, I was like, wow, you know I say in one sense it sounds like a dream job, but really it doesn't to me cuz like That's not like I don't want to do that. I want to be in the lives of these people.

I want to walk through the birth of their children. I want to walk through the the the death of their grandparents. I want to walk through the the highs and then in the lows. I want to be a family with these people.

I think that's the Shepherd's heart and I think Harold Smith his Episode on that you guys should listen to as it is exactly right. We need more pastors not just preachers. Now we want pastors that preach.

Well again, I reemphasize this so that no one but well our main duties preaching I'm not arguing that you know, you agreed agreed I'm just saying that that is not enough for the pastor and then we've included here.

Also the evangelist and we could throw although it's not a a pastoral position. You could even talk about the deacon. You know the deacon who thinks it's his job to just run things in the church. But not actually love the people and serve the people and walk alongside the people and care about them and pray for them, you know pastors, I would say this too, but but primarily, I guess I Talk about pastors, but I'd add deacons here.

But like pastors or deacons like you're not if you're not praying for your church members, like what are you doing in that office? Right, you're not taking them before the Lord by name and Praying for the things that are going on in their life.

Why are you in the office of pastor or deacon? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You're to give yourself to the ministry of the Word and prayer pray for your people I don't know. There's kind of shotgun approach here, but we're talking about the pastor's heart.

Humility, Responsibility, and Mature Oversight in Ministry

Go ahead, brother.

Well, if you're thinking about the heart too, we're also thinking in terms of motivations, right? And I think there are a lot of guys.

Who.

They want to preach and let's be honest they want to preach to a big crowd. They want they want they want to preach to the Sunday morning crowd though when. What service has the most people in it? Oh, that's the one I want to preach at.

And I would say especially if you're you're getting started but even now, you know, I'm I don't know 20-something years in on ministry and There is a lot of teaching I do every week to small groups of people a lot of Bible teaching and proclamation that I do to small groups of people and If you if you say man the Lord's the Lord has given me this fire this desire to teach the Bible to preach the Bible Then I'm saying well, okay there I'm sure if you live in even a small town.

I mean Marshall's 1 ,300 people, right? I'm sure that there are. I can I can have you somebody to to teach the Bible to every day of the week. Mm-hmm. I Guarantee you if you're willing to sit down with two or three people.

Mm-hmm, if it doesn't have to be.

You know.

5 ,600 people for you to think it's worth your time. Then I guarantee you I can have you somebody to teach the Bible to every week. And so I think a lot of times people's motivation is really not just the teaching the Bible.

Let's be honest Sometimes it's we want the affirmation of preaching to the big crowd.

Hmm.

Yeah, I think that's a good word brother. I mean, that's the thing if if you want the opportunity to preach and. Someone says, okay.

Well.

Let's go to the nursing home and you're like no no. No, like we went to the nursing home and I'll come in gunner. We went to the nursing home another day and you know, he preached about a 10-minute sermon maybe 15 minute and it was good on John 10 and there was like nursing home people.

Residents there were like five you know, it was pretty low and There were a couple kind of paying attention, but for the most part maybe not that much, you know. And he just gets up there and he preaches, you know, yeah did a good job.

That's the kind of heart. Yes, like if you're like, no, I'm not doing that, you know. We're like, hey, we need someone to if your class. Oh, so we're integrated when it comes to our main Sunday morning and Sunday night service.

Sunday morning Family integrated, but we do have a Sunday school and Wednesday night stuff where we do different classes. If you're like I feel the call to teach and someone's like, okay. Well, what do you think about these ten-year-olds, you know, right?

I'm not called to teach them like well, then what do you do? Like what are you doing? Are you called a teacher or not? You know, I mean like so I think it's a pastoral heart to not only be able to teach but be willing to teach whoever the Lord providentially Puts into your path, right?

That's right. You know, we've got a and.

And we've got to be willing to get outside of what's comfortable, you know here in Searcy County. I don't get to go as often as I used to. I used to go every week, but done a lot of ministry in the local jail.

And I know people might at first be like, oh I could never do that. But I'm gonna tell you it's Honestly, they're they're usually excited for you to come. If they don't they'll just go to their cell. I mean, it's not like they're gonna.

They're not gonna beat you up, you know or anything like that. But if you'll go in there and just sit down at a table.

You know.

You might have one guy sit down next to you and listen to what you have to say from the Bible. Or you might have eight Gathered around listen to what you have to say the Bible, but if you say no, that's not worth my time.

Well, then. Then I would say if that's not worth your time. You're not worthy to stand before the people on the Lord's Day.

Yeah.

Then I'm not saying everybody has to do jail ministry. Don't hear me saying everybody's got to do jail ministry. Everybody's gotta Do recovery ministry. Everybody's got to go to the nursing home. My point is to say that if any of those things are like you said teaching the you know I've the the Sunday school class that I teach is.

Like 10 to 14 is the age group. I've got mostly young boys young men and so. If if it's man That's beneath me. Well, that's problem. The bigger problem is that your heart says that it's beneath you. That's the biggest.

Here's a text that just came to my mind.

So first of all, we all know Philippians 2. But let me set that in context for just a second. Back up. I don't have my Bible in front of me, but back up to Philippians 1 1. Now think about who this letter is to.

It's to the Saints at Philippi.

With.

The overseers and deacons. That's right. So if we take plural commands in the book of Philippians Who can we in? Less context just specifically dictates otherwise. Who can we assume the plural commands are to?

Well.

The Saints at Philippi with the overseers and deacons.

Everybody.

So you set that in the context and then you and I'm gonna paraphrase cuz I don't have my Bible right here in front of me, but you set that in context of Philippians 2 and I say I don't have it in front of me, but you know what I have access to the world wide web.

So why can I not just pull this up real quick? So you go to Philippians 2 and Paul says so if there's any encouragement Christ any comfort from love any Participation in the spirit any affection and sympathy complete my joy by being of the same mind.

Having the same love being in full accord and of one mind. Okay, who's that to the Saints with the overseers and deacons do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit? But in humility count others more significant than yourselves.

Who's that to the Saints with the overseers and deacons let each of you look not only to his own interest But also to the interest of others. Who's that to the Saints with the overseers and deacons have this mind among yourselves.

Which is yours in Christ Jesus. Who's that to the Saints the overseers of deacons now? It's gonna tell us about Christ who though he was in the form of God did not count equality with God a thing to be Grasped but emptied himself by taking the form of a servant being born in the likeness of men and being found in human form.

He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death even death on a cross. Now then, you know God's gonna exalt him and everything now, but I think if we understand Philippians 2 in that light It's like remember this isn't just for church members.

Mm-hmm or I should say it's for all church members including The overseers and deacons elders and deacons, right? So this is the kind of mentality an elder is to have humility in service To the church.

It doesn't mean you should be a doormat. It doesn't mean that you have to have a back mount on just a couple weeks ago I don't remember when this will come out compared to the other one, but we talked about Phineas and Zimri you need a backbone.

Yeah, we didn't have a backbone and more ways than one, right? Right to listen to that episode, but the point is you need a backbone you to stand you to hold your ground. But you also need to have a humble spirit a humble mind ancient long-suffering.

This is how Christ is to us. This is how we're to serve the church.

Biblical Qualifications for Pastors, Evangelists, and Deacons

Yeah, and we ought to think about this too. You when you look at the pastoral qualifications that we find in Scripture. What Paul writes to Timothy and Titus. What Peter says in first Peter chapter 5 the past the the things that would instruct us on.

What kind of man ought a pastor to be. Man. Man ought a pastor to be. What what. What we really see it's just a mature Christian a mature Christian man, it's not a another category. Like it's not that the pastor ought to be this super kind of Christian that all the other Christians ought not be.

It's no rather a mature Christian man who also Has the ability to teach to proclaim God's Word to handle it rightly he is qualified. To be a pastor an elder an overseer in the church. Well, if that's true, if the if the qualification for the pastor is that he's this mature Qualified believer.

That's really what he is. Then whether we're talking about the pastor or the evangelist or other members of the church. The idea is that our heart ought to be to care for one another and to proclaim the gospel because we are these mature believers that are above reproach that have these both character and competency qualifications.

That the Bible speaks of in our families in the church in our love for one another.

This is what the Bible just describes as a godly Christian. Yeah, I think about and I've mentioned this before. But I love A .W. Pink as a theologian. I'm benefited. I'm reading his work on the divine covenants right now.

It's helpful. It's good. But his life does serve as an illustration, you know the end of it towards the end of his life. Like he just completely abandoned the church. Mm-hmm. You're like that's dangerous and how much more might God have used him had he stayed around and served the church.

I think about Martin Lloyd-Jones when he finished his Pastoral ministry he stayed around and served the church. He didn't just head to the heels, you know, but yeah you know, you understand what I'm saying that.

The.

The mentality of our of a pastor's heart is I want to serve the church unto the glory of God. I don't want to separate my preaching from serving the church. I don't want to separate my Evangelism from serving the church.

I don't want to separate anything. We're doing. We hope even our podcasting here is in service to the church. I know that we both of us have members of our churches that listen and hopefully there are other churches.

That's why we want to have this podcast the rural church Podcast. It's not just for pastors or preachers or this is for the church. Because we believe in the power and necessity and importance of the local church.

This is what God's doing in the world today. That's right. That's right.

That's right. And like you and like you've said.

So well and and so eloquently, you know Christ is worthy of a healthy church. Did you add the you know in there? To me as a slight.

You know.

Christ is worthy of a healthy church. We hope that this has been a helpful Episode to our brothers and sisters listening always willing to take feedback or questions. Quatro Nelson at gmail .com. See you.

A tr o n e l s o n at gmail .com. I forget yours Eddie cowboy church. It's something there. No, it's Eddie Ragsdale 17 at gmail .com. I email you but when I do email you I just type in e and it pops up and boom, right?

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you guys for listening. Listening today sign us off it. We'll see you guys next week.