December 4, 2019 Show with Dr. James R. White on “Social Justice: The Hideous Gift That Keeps on Giving” AND “Updates on Apologia Church’s Rescue of Unborn Babies from Slaughter”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. And they say you don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull a mask off that old old ranger, and you don't mess around with Jim.

Yeah, you better not mess around with Jim, because you're not going to be able to last the fight,

I can assure you, and unfortunately we have too many people out there trying to mess with Jim, much to their own peril and embarrassment, in my opinion, but we've got

James White, Dr. James R. White, returning to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio today.

I'm so thrilled to have this dear brother back on the program, he was my very first Iron Sharpens Iron Radio guest when we debuted in 2005 out of WNYG Radio in West Babylon, Long Island, and I'm so thrilled whenever we have the opportunity to have him back on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

He is the co -founder of Alpha Omega Ministries, he is the host of the Dividing Line webcast, and today we are going to be addressing the theme,

Social Justice, the hideous gift that keeps on giving. Plus, we're going to hear some updates on the rescue of unborn babies from slaughter by Apologia Church, where Dr.

James R. White is one of the pastors, and we're also going to hear about the G3 conference coming up in January, where Dr.

James R. White is on the roster, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

James R. White. Well, it's good to be with you, Chris. Is there anyone who's not on the roster at G3? I've never been to a conference with so many people,

I mean, that is, I've never figured out how Dr. Bice pulls that off, but yeah, it's pretty amazing.

It sure is, and the theme is Worship Matters, and I know that this is a subject near and dear to your heart.

Before we even go into our two main themes today, why don't you tell us, if you even know yet, what specifically you'll be speaking on under the umbrella of Worship Matters at the

G3 conference this January 16th through the 18th. It's funny you should ask that, because my text and topic was all set until yesterday when, let's just say someone who will remain nameless asked to do the same passage, and he outranked me, so I'm not sure what

I'm... So, yeah, I'm sort of scrambling on that level, but yeah, someone wanted to do the same.

I was first, I had gotten it first, but I didn't want to cause problems, so I'll probably be doing something along the lines of the deity of Christ as to his

Jesus worship or something like that. I don't know. We'll figure it out, but I've got a trip to do before then.

I'm going to be headed to St. Charles, Missouri tomorrow, and same topic, actually, that we'll be discussing at Covenant Grace Church there, where I've been.

This will be my 19th year, pretty much almost consecutively. I missed one year when

I went to Ukraine in December, and they didn't mind that because the pastor there,

Van Lees, has been going to Ukraine for longer than I have, and so they didn't mind that I was missing one year for a trip to Ukraine.

Of course, things are difficult over there. He used to go to Donetsk, Donetsk, something like that.

Anyways, it's now a smoldering ruin because it's right on the border of where the war is with Russia.

It's an ongoing live war that no one ever talks about. It's amazing in light of what's going on politically right now with the

Russian collusion, Ukrainian collusion, Swedenborgian collusion, whatever it might be.

They don't say almost anything about the fact that thousands of people are dying in a hot war, but it's sort of static.

But he used to go there, and now they've had to move elsewhere because the church that they would go to, and they had built a building.

The whole yard is all smoldering ruins. It's a shame. So anyways, that's where I'm headed this weekend to address the same issues we're going to be talking about in regards to social justice.

So yeah, but those four folks have had me in there for almost two decades now, and I just think they can't find anybody else to come speak.

I think it's a cry in shame, so it's sort of a mission's work for me now. Well, also, something that has occurred since the last time you were on Iron Troupe and Zion Radio, you have been called to join the pastoral team at Apologia Church in Tempe, Arizona.

By the way, you've got to get on the case of the webmaster at ApologiaChurch .com because you're not on there.

Oh, well, it is a real irony that Apologia has such a huge web presence, but the actual website for the church is just a dinosaur.

So I have mentioned that, but they're so focused on...

I don't know how long the program we did today is going to end up being. I had to leave because I had previous commitments, a .k

.a. you. But we did an Apologia radio episode today, so they're constantly cranking stuff out, and that basically means that the website just sort of languishes.

In fact, I'm not even sure it has the right address. We're meeting these days. We don't have our own building, and so we rent from others.

And I don't think that's a bad thing these days, to be honest with you, given what's going on in the world.

I think the more the church possesses as far as easily obtainable stuff, the more problem we're going to have.

And look at China. I mean, China's blowing up mosques and churches. And how do they get away with that?

Well, because you can't move it. It's really easy to find. You know, the early church, when it was under persecution, didn't build churches.

The only, the first churches we can find historically that they began to build in the second century, they did so in places of relative peace, where the persecution, which would eventually be empire -wide, starting in the middle of the third century, but for those first few centuries, it would be in a certain area for a while, and then it would die down and pop up in another area.

And where you'd have areas of general peace, then you'd get church buildings. But once persecution came back, it wasn't hard to find the

Christians because they were, you know, everybody knew right where they were. That's where the building was. And so I'm really wondering if that's not what we're going to be facing in the not -too -distant future in our own land, because we may look at North Korea and China and go, oh, man, you know, that's terrible.

But the reality is we have people in our own country that very much want to take us the exact same direction, and they have succeeded in taking over the educational system, and hence are producing a— every time

I see polls about millennials and younger as to what they think of socialism and communism,

I just want to—well, I would pull my hair out if I had any because they just don't know history.

When you talk about what one political system in the 20th century was responsible for over 100 million deaths conservatively, they don't know.

They don't know who Stalin was. They don't know who Mao was. And so they're, you know, we've all heard the old statement that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, but the other aspect of that is that those of us who do know history are doomed to sit around screaming in silence as we see people walking down that very same path, and that's the reality of what we're facing.

Sorry to be so upbeat, right? But the point being that we don't have a building, so one of the things that has been a real adjustment for me is getting accustomed to a much longer service once on the

Lord's Day at 4 o 'clock in the afternoon. So that is different.

When you're accustomed to the old style, 930 in the morning, Sunday, and then you've got

Sunday school, and then you've got your worship service, and then you've got the afternoon, and then we still had an evening service, things like that.

Cram it all into one, and doing it at 4 o 'clock in the afternoon is quite a shift for an old guy.

I am the elderly elder. I am 16 years older than the next oldest of the elders, so I have more tradition to try to work my way through, to be sure.

In fact, I think I can say with confidence that my guest today, James White, is the only person on the planet

Earth who is a co -pastor of a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. That's true.

That's true. There's no question about that. When I saw a video,

I don't know, I think it was about four months ago, you know how videos will just pop up, and one of these action stars had done a video where he kicked the lid, not the lid, but the bottle top off of a bottle without knocking the bottle over type thing, and it was done in slow motion, and it became a viral thing.

I just happened to send that to Jeff just for the fun of it, and less than 24 hours later, he sends me a link to a video where he and Luke and I don't remember if it was

Zach or somebody else in the studio, but it's slow motion where he kicks the, and the way you do it is you hit it and you actually make it spin off without knocking the bottle over, three of them in the same video.

I'm like, okay, that's really not why I sent it to you. It wasn't a challenge, you know, but since you decided to do that, great, wonderful.

Yeah, I do have at least some sense of security when I'm preaching there. I don't figure there's too many people who are going to mess with us.

For those of our listeners who have no idea what we're talking about, Jeff Durbin, who is the co -pastor along with Dr.

James R. White, who was actually the founding pastor, Jeff Durbin, he was the choreographer for the martial arts involved in the

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I can't remember if it was the films, the television show, or both.

I think it was the road show or television afterwards, something like that. It wasn't the movies themselves, but he actually did some of the work, and he was a world champion in karate.

He still does a lot of training, and certainly I wouldn't want to mess with his boys, because they get trained too.

We call him the ninja because that was a part of history. Interestingly enough, the first book that he read when he was converted was

King James Only Controversy, which I find very, very odd and strange, but that's how it works.

So yeah, I've had a long, long relationship, even though I didn't necessarily know about all of it with Jeff.

So there we are. Apologia is especially known over the past number of years for starting a ministry called

End Abortion Now, which is Apologia doesn't do anything halfway, and it's a controversial ministry, but it is what's behind, if you've been seeing all of the video of people appearing before city councils, a tremendous amount of abortion mill ministry of people, people for a long time have been going to abortion mills, but if you've seen

Babies Are Murdered Here sign, that comes from Marcus Pittman, and End Abortion Now, two movies now along on that subject.

And it's controversial because it very plainly criticizes the broader, quote -unquote, pro -life movement on the level of becoming complacent and sort of just becoming established, and well, let's get a little bit of an extra restriction here, a little bit of extra restriction there, rather than seeking the all -out abolition of human abortion.

Of course, you had AHA folks that were out there that had gone after me, and even after Apologia, we obviously try to do these things in a meaningful fashion and in a way that is based upon the church, but the idea is, in End Abortion Now, is that probably the only weapons to give to the church is the gospel, and you know, you and I have talked about this for a long, long time, but right around, when did you interrupt me that one day at the office and call me and I was wondering how you got my number?

That would have been in 1995, and the debate actually came to be in 1996.

Okay, so about five, six years before that, I had been involved with Operation Rescue, and nobody's heard of that today, but it was an early pro -life movement, and I discovered then that issues of the gospel were, at that point, very clearly communicated to us that they needed to be kept on the sidelines, that ending abortion was going to be a political thing, and it was not going to be a gospel thing.

You know, there were people involved that I would naturally want to share the gospel with because they were not in gospel -preaching churches, and it was made very, very clear, you're not to do that.

And so I sort of saw that a long while ago, but Jeff and Marcus and Luke, they started

End Abortion Now, they started sending out kits to churches to where they can go out to abortion mills and plead for the unborn, and the hope at the time was if we could just see any baby that would be saved, it would just be incredible.

Well, over the past, I think it's been five, six years, it's impossible to keep absolute numbers, but there have been well over a thousand babies that we know of that are alive today because of that ministry, and, unfortunately, what has happened since then is you have abortion forced on Northern, well, same -sex marriage forced on Northern Ireland, you have the

Irish as a whole voting for it, for abortion. So you've had tremendous liberalization forced upon some people there.

Same thing down in Australia just, what, four or five months ago, something like that at the most, and all of a sudden, there's lots of churches in those lands going, okay, what do we do?

So we've been able to be of assistance to them, though, let's be honest, many of them are in a context. They do not have the level of freedom of speech that we have in the

United States. There are many European nations and things where they will set a buffer zone that basically just keeps you from ever being able to plead for the life of unborn children.

They just keep you too far away. And, effectively, we have that in many places in the

United States. I don't know if you've seen the videos, but I've been stunned to watch the videos that are, because I'm not sure who started it, but we certainly encourage people, if they're going to be involved in clinic outreach, that they wear a

GoPro or something similar to a GoPro camera. And you may have seen the video of the abortion doctor here in Phoenix, who only a couple months ago pulled a gun on Elvis Testo outside one of the abortion mills in Phoenix.

And you can see it. It's plain as day. And the amazing thing was the cops are going, well, you know, we're not really sure that's a gun.

I mean, I don't know. And there's another fellow in Atlanta who's standing there at the entrance, and this woman slows way, way down and purposely uses her assault rifle.

You need to run right into him. And the cop comes out and warns him. So we have, unfortunately, hours and hours and hours now of video demonstrating that Planned Parenthood owns a great deal of local government and that there are many people involved that would do anything they possibly could to promote

Planned Parenthood and its activities and keep them in business, shall we say, as if they really needed the extra business, given how much money the federal government gives them already.

But there are not only children who have been saved, but we've put ourselves on the line.

Sometime over the next four or five days, a little baby is going to be born that has already been named

Augustine Gideon. Love that name. Love that name. Yeah.

Well, I'm not sure if you heard the Dividing Line episode where I went over the story of where that name came from, but Augustine Gideon is going to be born.

He has spinal bifida. He's going to be in the hospital for about two weeks with surgeries.

It's the best case form of spinal bifida. So I guess,

I don't know a lot about it, but my understanding is the farther down on the spinal cord the issue is, the better as far as the prognosis and the abilities of the child.

But obviously Augustine is always going to be a special needs medical child.

And Jeff and Candy are adopting this child.

They came to us. They knew of our abortion ministry, and we've always said we'll adopt your child.

And many of our families, just a large number of our families, have adopted children.

We've put their money where our mouth is, basically. When this was presented to our fellowship, there was a meeting and there were pregnant mothers who already had six children that were willing to look at adoption if that was what was needed for this child.

And so it's pretty exciting to see what the

Lord has done there. Almost every Lord's Day we're talking about, well, this week we heard of two confirmed saves at this abortion clinic and over here.

And unfortunately, you start getting used to it. When we first started, it was like you'd hear about one, and it's like, ah!

But now you hear about dozens, and the tendency is you tend to get used to it.

But the reality is we're already getting all these pictures of these growing children that have the opportunity of life because that was taking place.

I am concerned, honestly. However, I know that there are many people in government that want to shut us down.

They want to throw Jeff especially in jail. And I think we've been given a bit of a hiatus in our country for a brief period of time.

But as far as I can see, the day will come when you will have leftists in control in a broad spectrum of things.

If you just simply look at the next generation and what they have been taught and what they haven't been taught about history and everything else, eventually they're going to be in control.

And those rights that we are currently using to save life will be taken away, and there will be a much higher cost that will be extracted at that point.

So we pray to remain faithful now, and then I truly do wonder what that's going to mean in the future as to what the cost is going to be.

Well, folks, if you want to find out more about Apology at Church and Apology at Studios, go to ApologyAtChurch .com,

ApologyAtChurch .com. And the better website, I think, to get more updated information is to go to ApologyAtStudios .com.

That's A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A -Studios .com.

And, of course, Dr. James R. White's website for Alpha and Omega Ministries, which we hope to remember to repeat this information, but it's

A -O -M -I -N .org, A -O -M -I -N .org. It stands for Alpha and Omega Ministries.

And you can also livestream the Dividing Line webcast from that website.

So we hope that you, if you haven't already, discover that excellent program watched by many, many, many, many people worldwide.

Do you happen to know the number by now? No, because we put it out in various forms, and so you have your live audience at the time on YouTube.

Again, who knows how long that'll last. And then once that's available, then you have downloads from YouTube.

We upload sermon audio. You've got the audio from there. But then when it goes on iTunes, we don't really know what that is.

But it depends on the episode, but in the first week or so, we'll have 60 ,000 or so on an average

Dividing Line along those lines. Again, not knowing what the iTunes stuff actually looks like.

And I don't know how that exactly works overseas, but I do know that one of the most encouraging things for me has been to go farther and farther overseas to places like, you know, this year

I've been in Samara, Russia. I've been in Johannesburg and Durban and Melbourne and Sydney.

I qualified for the highest level in frequent flyers. Frequent flyers standing for American by August of this year.

That is ridiculous. And when you go to those places, have young university students.

Happened a couple times in Johannesburg. Black university students that will come up to me as a group saying, you know, if it wasn't for the

Dividing Line, we never would have made it to university as believers. And so to be in places like Potsdam or European Ukraine and have people coming up and talking about how much the

Dividing Line means to them. It's sort of funny because, as you know, we were way ahead of the curve when it came to podcasting.

We were podcasting because we knew what a pod was. Because we were so poor that we had been on radio.

And that cost us. It was on a Saturday afternoon time slot.

And you know what a Saturday afternoon time slot means. It means nobody's listening. No, seriously.

Weekends are not prime time radio time. Other than Sunday morning.

Well, Sunday morning, sure. Yeah, but this is Saturday afternoon. But the

Internet did exist. And back then we used something called real audio, if you remember that.

And we noticed that most of the phone calls we would get on the program were coming from the

Internet. They were coming from people who were listening who were not in the Phoenix metropolitan area.

And so we got smart and found a way to do that in and of ourselves.

And we were really one of the first podcasters. We put the Dividing Line all electronic.

And now everybody does it. But we sort of started out first.

And it was more of a financial necessity than it was insight or brilliant prediction of future events.

I don't do that stuff very well. But we just stumbled on it ourselves. And so, yeah, we do definitely have a global audience.

And part of it is because we just do weird things. I mean, not weird things to be weird, but I'll tackle subjects that just from the world's perspective is not something you should be necessarily trying to talk about.

But our audience has gotten used to that, and it continues to grow. So it's a blessing.

Yeah, and you may have seen, it's a far cry from the extent of your popularity, but last month,

October, I should say, we had 41 ,000 downloads of MP3s off of the Iron Sherpa's Iron Ribs site in October alone.

And that, I think, is a record that I'm aware of anyway. Yeah, and when we first started,

I don't think the MP3 had been actually invented yet. Or if it had, it wasn't yet the dominant form.

So it is amazing that technology allows us. I do so much of my studying now either on the back of the bike, as I have for years now, or driving.

My phone has 256 gigs of space on it.

And I roll my eyes when I think about that because I remember writing so many of the papers that became central to later ministry in regards to the

Trinity and the deity of Christ and stuff on a compact, portable computer that did not have a hard drive and had 640K of RAM in it.

And now I've got a phone that has 256 gigs. I remember my first 256 megabyte hard drive.

I thought that we would never, ever, ever fill something that huge up, 256 megs.

And now I've got a phone with 256 gigs. And so I do have some hope in the future when we do get locked out of having freedom of expression.

I'm sitting here right now. I'm looking at 4 gigabyte little teeny clip thumb drives.

I mean, they're tiny. There's 4 gigs on it. You can put a lot of MP3s into 4 gigs worth of space.

And that means they're extremely portable and distributable and cheap.

And so I just have a feeling that that's how a lot of teaching and stuff gets distributed around China right now, are little tiny jump drives like that that you can pass to somebody without really being noticed.

Though it's pretty difficult, even in China, given the number of cameras there. But still, something tells me that's going to be a mechanism we're using in the future to distribute teaching and to continue to seek to spread the word when we don't have the freedom of access that we have now.

Well, I just want to thank you again for whenever you have mentioned

IronTroop and ZionRadio on the dividing line. It has definitely been paid attention to because the vast majority of times when

I am hearing from somebody by email or having a phone conversation with them or communicating on Facebook from the 26 foreign countries that I know we have listeners in and also all 50 states in the

United States that we have listeners in, the vast majority of times they said, oh, Dr. James White, he referred me to this program.

Yeah, yeah. Well, those are the times when I refer to the program for good reasons when I say, but did you hear what

IronTroop did? It probably doesn't help very much. And by the way, you recently went through a

Facebook friend of mine's feed and liked a bunch of pictures, and so she actually wrote to me and said, should

I be worried about this? I said, nah, it's just Chris.

It's just Chris. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with a little less, or should

I say, a little more than an hour to go, is Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, and we are discussing as our main theme, social justice, the hideous gift that keeps on giving.

If you'd like to join us on the air for the question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And please keep our guest today, Dr. James R. White, in prayer. If we both seem a little lackluster today, it's because, as I mentioned briefly before the break,

I happen to be coming down with a cold or something, and my guest, Dr. James R.

White, has food poisoning, and he's just about to go on an important trip tomorrow, so he really needs your prayers even more than I do.

So, please keep us both in your prayers. No, no, no, Chris, you're always the champion on that. We always need to keep

Chris in our prayers, yes, indeed. And, in fact, I was just checking Facebook, and lo and behold, my

Facebook friend is listening live, so I heard the mention that I made of your liking all of her photos, and so I got a comment on that on Facebook.

Well, you've got to tell us about, especially for our listeners who have no idea what we're talking about, we do have listeners that are...

Which is pretty normal for us. We have brand new listeners who are new

Christians at times. We even have listeners that are not Christians at all. We have listeners that are

Muslims. We have listeners that are in all kinds of categories of humanity.

But why don't you tell our listeners, who don't know what social justice is all about, a summary definition.

Well, that's just it. The term itself sounds like it's fairly transparent when you're simply talking about doing justice to all of society, but the social justice movement as it exists today doesn't have a whole lot to do with justice in any

Christian context. It has to do with a concept that is derived from a political orientation and a political worldview that is another way of speaking of class struggle.

So the fundamental goal of the justice in the social justice movement is the end of oppression, and oppression exists between particular groups.

You are either a part of the oppressors, or you are a part of those who are oppressed.

You yourself are oppressed. And you are this not by your actions, but by the group you are born into.

And so this results in discussions of whiteness and blackness.

Amazingly, in the United States it almost always ends there, even though, as anyone knows, there's all sorts of ethnicities that sort of get left out of the mix.

But, yeah, as it may, the idea is that the greatest good in the social justice worldview, which is also based on something called critical theory, which is even more widespread, and is probably a better term to use, but social justice seems to be a little bit easier for people to grab hold of.

The idea being that oppression, the ending of oppression, is the greatest good.

The problem is there is never any way to actually end oppression, because you cannot redefine the categories of oppressor and oppressed.

And so what critical theory does, if you take the two words critical and theory and put almost anything in between them, so think about it, critical gender theory.

I follow a particular individual, a well -known individual on Twitter. I've not sought to interact with this person.

I just follow so as to be able to amaze myself each and every day with this person's comments.

But this person is what is now known as transgender, and this person is an athlete and has won two world championships in cycling as a quote -unquote transgender athlete.

This is a man, a biological male, who defeats females and is world champion as a result in his age group.

And just today decides she now is going to change her, whoever's name.

Everything is fluid in this perspective. So critical gender theory has resulted not only in transgenderism, but now in the, you know, 133 genders or 256 genders or depends on who you're talking to, all these different sexual identities and everything else.

So what critical theory does, it breaks down any cohesion that would exist in a particular area.

So critical race theory likewise breaks down any unity that could possibly exist between ethnicities and divides everybody into these immutable camps and groups.

So the result of that is then you get what's called intersectionality. So now you have an intersectional score.

And so if you are a black lesbian female, if you can even use the term female anymore in a meaningful fashion, then you have a very high intersectionality score because you're oppressed on all these different levels.

And so justice is hearing your voice much more than the oppressor who would be a white cisgendered male.

So if you're a white male and you're married to your wife and you have kids, you have the lowest possible intersectionality score, and hence your voice has the least relevance.

And you are to be constantly checking your privilege because you are privileged.

You have set the system up. Well, you didn't, but somebody did. And you're benefiting.

You set the system up to benefit you and your kids. And so if you have children and they have a stable home environment, even that is considered to be privilege and something you're to repent of over against people who would have children without them providing for them and things like that because that's your fault.

You started the oppression. You didn't start it, but you benefit from the oppression that is oppressing them.

What happens is you have total dissolution of anything, any of the bonds that held societies together.

And that's exactly what we're seeing. We're seeing it in Europe. We're seeing it in the United States. And that's exactly what the desired result is.

You put people against people, and it's not just on the basis of race or ethnicity.

But obviously the old Marxist division was rich against poor.

Now you have every kind of ethnicity against every other kind of ethnicity.

You have every kind of gender, sexual expression against every other kind of gender and sexual expression.

It's just you. And what we're seeing is, and one of my hopes, honestly, down the road, is

I just can't see how any of this is at all able to sustain itself for the long haul because, well, the clearest morality tale recently that illustrates this for me is

Martina Navratilova. Everybody in our generation, anyways, knows who

Martina Navratilova was. She and Chrissy Everett had the epic battles at Wimbledon and the

U .S. Open and things like that back in the 1970s and 80s as the best female tennis players of that age.

And it was pretty well known that Martina Navratilova was a lesbian and that she has taken a leading role in the promotion of that lifestyle.

But about a year ago, she got into tremendous problems and was dumped as a spokesperson for various groups because of the fact that she came out and said that it is not fair for biological males to compete against biological females in sports.

She well knows, and it is a given reality, that any one of the top 200 men in her day of tennis could have wiped her off the court quite easily.

All you have to do is just watch, for example, the speed of a man's serve in tennis over against a woman's serve in tennis, and you see that there is a substantial difference in the power and the pace that a man can produce because, in general, a man is larger and stronger than a woman is.

And so if you were to allow men, biological males, to compete against biological females, there would be no biological female champions ever again in the future because they couldn't compete.

Same thing when you're looking at track and field and running and so on and so forth. You see these biological males competing against the females, and the females are 30 yards behind at the end of the race because they simply can't produce the power that the males can.

So she said that it's cheating. It is obviously unjust. And oh, my goodness.

See, she may be a lesbian, but her intersectionality isn't complete because she's not transgender.

And so you see these groups, and what happens, what intersectionality does is its final state is a complete atomization of society because all of us are unique.

All of us have our own set of intersectional issues in our lives, and there are now people literally seeking to have as much intersectional authority and power as you can possibly get, and that means you have to constantly be separating yourself from someone else.

Critical theory has no mechanism of building anything. By its very nature, it must destroy everything.

That's what it's designed to do, is break everything down. So as a worldview, it is incredibly destructive, and those who are promoting it as a worldview in the

West are doing so for the specific purpose of destroying Western democracies,

Western civilization, the Judeo -Christian heritage, law, et cetera, et cetera, so that once that falls apart, then you can replace it with something else.

And I'm not the only one who has noted that something else is a totalitarian system, such as we have in China today, where social credit scores and Christians are having to facially scan in to attend churches, and it is 1984,

Brave New World, put together on steroids with a much higher level of technology than those books could have ever predicted.

Yeah, we have to do the facial scan at Grace Baptist Church here in Carlisle. They detect our faithfulness to the 1689 through this system.

I'm kidding. Well, you know, I hadn't really thought of that, but okay, right?

I think you are always dancing on the line of church discipline as it is. That may have pushed it right over the edge right there.

I mean, I read 1984 in high school. I'm not sure if you did. Yes, I did.

And Fahrenheit 451? I think Fahrenheit 451 applies to our culture today as well.

Yeah, it does. Even though I didn't like that one nearly as much as either Brave New World or 1984. The dystopian totalitarianism of those is almost prophetic, but they just could not have imagined the level of control that governments can produce today through technology, through satellite observation, and through technology.

But again, I just, though I can see that coming, I, at the same time, the positive aspect of it in the back of my mind is it cannot support itself.

That isn't who we are. That isn't how God has made human beings. And so you have to have, that's why the state has to have compulsory education of all children.

Of all children. And that's why in Germany you cannot homeschool. I can guarantee you the first time that there is a

Democratic President, Senate, and House at the same time, homeschooling will be ended in the

United States. They will follow suit for the very same reason. Because this worldview requires constant repair.

Because that's not how God made us. We are made in the image of God. And therefore, we know these things, and so you have to be constantly utilizing artificial mechanisms to reinforce this thing.

So, in 1984, you had to be constantly rewriting history. You had to control language.

You had to use the view screen. And that kind of stuff. In Brave New World you had drugs that were used.

Soma, I think is what it was called. To keep people from having the emotion.

Maybe that was Equilibrium. I forgot. That was a great dystopian movie as well that was along the same lines that sort of became a cult movie.

I'm not sure if you've ever seen it. Have you ever seen Equilibrium? I don't believe so, no. If you can find it.

It may not even be easy to find. Christian Bale was the primary star.

And it's really, really good. I think you'd find it. I mean, especially if you like gun ninja stuff.

But the whole storyline was very much an 84, Brave New World style situation.

And similar types of concepts. They used drugs. They used medical technology to keep people from experiencing super highs and lows.

They could be easier, more easily controlled. But, yeah. That's a very, very long discussion.

A lot of people really don't recognize today as they see what's going on and they see the attack upon freedom of speech and freedom of expression and things like that.

What's behind all of this and where it's going. But it is all... It's not just a wild jumble of things.

There is a purpose behind it. And the fundamental purpose is to break down the old

Judeo -Christian consensus which is based on family, which is based on the existence of God.

Man is the creation of God. Therefore, moral and ethical principles that simply can't be thrown overboard by the vote of the

House or the Senate but that have abiding moral validity. And once you get systems like Canada.

Canada. Oh, they're getting there too. But China today. You really start seeing what totalitarianism can really end up looking like.

Because it's not just a matter of controlling people. It is demanding that the people view the government as the highest authority.

And I see that among so many young people in the United States today.

When I was a kid, everybody knew that the government was under a higher authority and that the government was supposed to be limited and that it could not claim the final fidelity of any individual.

That's not the case anymore. And I see many Christians who will default to running to the government for redress.

Running to the government to solve this problem or that problem. And that view of the all goodness of the government is extremely problematic.

Certainly from a Christian worldview and from an American worldview was the whole reason we have separation of powers is because the founding fathers were either

Christian or influenced by Christianity so that they had a realistic understanding of the fact that men are sinners and that when you concentrate power in the hands of a small number of men they will utilize that to enrich themselves at the expense of others.

They had just experienced that with the king in Britain and so they divided things out.

Even though right now to be perfectly honest with you I'm definitely thinking that Queen Elizabeth might be the best option we have in the future.

I think make America Britain again might not be a bad idea. But they've got their own problems right now to be honest with you.

Right. And we've got to pick up where you left off because we have to go to our midway break right now and this is our longer than normal break folks so please be patient.

We have to have this longer break because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us this longer break in the middle so that we can air their public service announcements and other things that localize

Iron Trump and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida a requirement of the FCC. So please be patient with us use this time wisely write down information provided by our advertisers so that our advertisers will

God willing get more results from their advertising and they will subsequently stick around as our advertisers which will subsequently enable us to remain on the air longer.

So and also please write down questions for our guest James White and send them to chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen at gmail .com

Don't go away we'll be right back with Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and more of our subject social justice the hideous gift that keeps on giving.

Gotta tell ya for my money Chris Arnzen's radio program is just the best.

Iron Criticizing Iron I think that's what it's called.

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson of Grace to You inviting everybody to come to the

G3 conference which is almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country. And it is it's a great conference

I love it and Chris Arnzen was there last year he's been there I think every year it's great to see him there you and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place which is a highlight tons of stuff going on tons of great speakers and no matter where you are in the building you will hear

Chris Arnzen's laugh and that's worth the price of admission alone if you would like to join

Phil me Chris and a cavalcade of great preachers so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers and me

G3conference .com G3conference .com And now there's even more exciting news

John MacArthur himself is now also on the lineup at the G3 conference Thursday January 16th through Saturday January 18th 2020

Go to G3conference .com G3conference .com See you there! This is

Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God If you live near Franklin Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org This is

Pastor Bill Souser wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always

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If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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Gary Kimbrell, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows in their affliction.

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans. I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

So if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans. In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you. A church

I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how He shall be worshipped and how

He shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

.com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youth in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

That's 631 -385 -8333. That's liyfc .org. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled

Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you call

Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win. Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

1 -800 -669 -4878. Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina, and the

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

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and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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solid -ground -books .com. Make a long list of books that you want to purchase that they publish, and then order them at cvbbs .com,

because cvbbs .com, as I said, is a book distributor, and they carry all of Solid Ground Christian Books' titles.

If they don't happen to have a title or titles that you want in stock, they will order them.

And by this way, you help both of our sponsors at the same time, because Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher, and cvbbs .com

is a distributor. So that is just a request from me, especially during the holidays.

I hope you do most of your holiday shopping, if not all of it, at Solid Ground Christian Books, solid -ground -books .com,

and cvbbs .com. Before I return to James White, I just want to remind you that the

G3 conference is coming up sooner than you know it, Thursday, January 16th, through Saturday, January 18th, at the

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta. It's actually connected to the

Atlanta airport. And as always, the lineup at this conference is mind -boggling.

It's so huge, and yet so deep, as far as the intellect and gifts and abilities of the guests on the roster.

The theme this January is Worship Matters, and the guests include my guest today,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and also Stephen J. Lawson of One Passion Ministries, my friend

Phil Johnson, who is the executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

And Phil Johnson has the dubious reputation of being the most interviewed person ever on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio since we first launched in 2005.

My friend Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio. Derek Thomas, who is a world -renowned Presbyterian author and conference speaker and pastor.

Dr. Tom Askell, a mutual friend of both Dr. James White's and mine, who is the executive director of Founders Ministries, the

Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention. Dr. Stephen J.

Nichols, who is the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries. Kosti Hinn, who you heard Dr. James White just mention in an ad earlier.

Kosti Hinn, the nephew of the world -renowned heretic and charlatan,

Benny Hinn. And Kosti doesn't mind me saying that, because he says all that and more, seeking to expose his uncle and everyone else in the

Word of Faith movement for the deadly and dangerous and damning false teachers that they are.

And Kosti, there's an update on him. He is now pastoring in Arizona. He was given a call to Arizona by a church and accepted that call, so he's no longer in California, as you heard

Dr. White mention. And then, of course, we have John MacArthur himself added to the lineup. I would go, if it was just John MacArthur speaking at this event.

And there are many more on the roster. So, if you want to join me there, Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th, 2020, at the

G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com. G3conference .com. And I also urge you, if you have a business or parachurch ministry,

I urge you to register for an exhibitor's booth as well, just as I have been manning at the G3 Conference for three years in a row, and this will be my fourth year in January of 2020, my fourth year manning an exhibitor's booth.

And there are over, typically, over 5 ,000 people who attend this event every year. With the addition of John MacArthur, I am so confident it's going to be over 6 ,000 people.

So, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, register to attend, and also, if it applies to you, register for an exhibitor's booth.

Always tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnz and Iron Sharp and Zion Radio. Last but not least,

I just want to remind you folks that Iron Sharp and Zion Radio is in urgent need of your donations.

Please, if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey two very important commands in Scripture, providing for your home and providing for your church, those two things are, first and foremost, because they are commands of Scripture, that you must provide for.

So, providing for Iron Sharp and Zion Radio is obviously not a command of God, but if you are financially blessed beyond your ability to obey those two commands, please help us.

If you love the show and you don't want us to go away, please go to ironsharpandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card. You can also send in a check via snail mail the old -fashioned way to the address that appears on the screen when you click support at Iron Sharp and Zion Radio.

We are in urgent, urgent need of your finances. We have bills for this month that we have not yet paid and are unable to pay without more donations coming in.

Of course, if you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign.

Send your email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a

Bible -believing church and you're not even looking for one, you are in rebellion against God. I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet

Earth. I can help you find a church, God willing. I've already helped many people in our audience find churches all over the world where they have either joined or where they have visited on vacation or they have recommended to their family, friends, and loved ones without churches.

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

And that's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And I will take a question right now from one of our very loyal listeners,

Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina. Not only a loyal listener, but a faithful contributor financially to this program.

He says, Greetings brothers Chris and James. What breaks my heart about this is that our

Lord Jesus Christ said the world would know us by our love for one another.

I find it amazing that those pushing this agenda are using literature from Dr. Combs, who was a heretic.

Why do you think they've departed from the sufficient Holy Scriptures? And that's Grady, Asheboro, North Carolina.

Yeah, well let's, if anyone, I don't want to even pull up my

James Combs file off a drop box on my phone right now, but James Combs passed away last year.

He was the father of black theology, black power theology, wrote a number of books, and it is astonishing to read those books.

I first read them in 2008 when Barack Obama was running for president because his pastor, of course, everybody knew

Jeremiah Wright. I was trying to figure out where this guy was coming from. I couldn't get a radar fix on exactly what he believed or why he believed it, until I came to the realization that he was a student of and a follower of James Cone, who

I think ended his life teaching at Union Theological Seminary. Now as soon as I say

Union, anyone should recognize that Union Theological Seminary is left of left.

I mean, it's hard to, well, if anybody saw the chapel service recently, that I think even the

Babylon Bee did something about, where people were making confession to plants in a chapel service.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. They had plants in the middle and everyone was sitting around and they were confessing their ecological sins to plants in the chapel service.

That was Union Theological Seminary. And I follow Union on Twitter, and every once in a while I'll, I call them seminary,

Walker Seminary tweets. I'm using the term Walker not as in Texas Ranger, but Walker as in The Walking Dead, because it's a theological seminary, but it died over 100 years ago, but it's still walking around and it's bumping into things and is very frightening to look at.

But he was a professor there. So there are, I think there's more

Buddhism taught at Union Theological Seminary than there is anything even slightly resembling Christianity. And so, it's right there in New York, too, which should say something.

I'm sure they advertise on, okay, I'm not going to say that. Anyway, I caught

Chris. I expected a laugh out of, either that or he was panicking. I had my microphone on mute, which

I usually do when I'm not speaking. That's why you didn't hear me laughing. Yeah, okay. Anyway, I was such a staid, boring

Reformed Baptist until I went to the Chris Sarnes School. Yes, you were. Of humor and things like that.

Anyway, and how to make people very nervous. I still remember sitting with you at the

Baldwin Coach the very first time I saw you. You always remember. You always come up with the same story. And I was joking as I normally do, and you're sitting there just staring at me like you just saw the

Loch Ness Monster or something. Well, I would like to see the Loch Ness Monster. You just had me scared because we were about to do a debate and you were moderating it.

Well, not moderating, but introducing it. I didn't know what to expect out of that. Anyway, the point is that Cone, his books are just so far outside of anything that could be even slightly recognized as historically orthodox

Christian beliefs. They are black racist books. They really are. I mean, not only is

God black, but for a white man to be converted, you can only be converted through association with black people.

I've read this stuff on the air. Yeah, I heard you on the dividing line reading that and it was mind -boggling.

Yeah, and so I first started doing that in 2008, and then it sort of like subsided, and then it starts coming up again, and now you're finding professors at conservative, well, historically conservative

Reformed seminaries, whether Southern Baptist or Presbyterian or whatever else, who are recommending

Cone. Now, I'm not a fundamentalist. I was raised a fundamentalist, but I'm not a fundamentalist anymore, and fundamentalists tend to get really freaked out if you, for example, if I were to write, and I'm going to be using this example pretty soon in a review of an article, but if I were to write a book on my experience at Fuller Theological Seminary in the 1980s, and if it was to be a scholarly work, then

I would have to cite from and include material from Karl Barth, because if you went to Fuller in the 80s, you had to read

Barth, Barth would be cited in the classes, I had to become familiar with Barth's theology, especially his theology of the

Word of God, and how Barth differentiated himself from German liberals of his day, how he was considered a conservative in his day, etc.,

etc., etc. And so, I would have to, in my bibliography, have a number of works by Karl Barth.

Now, I do not believe what Karl Barth taught, and I do not have Karl Barth's view of Scripture.

I have, I think, a much, much more conservative higher view than Karl Barth did, but the point is,

I would have to cite him. And so, the same thing is true when you're looking at someone like James Cone, you know, you have to, it's one thing to, if you're going to teach a class on the black experience in the

United States, you can't avoid Cone. If you're going to make a bibliography of books for people who are reading and studying and doing scholarship in that field,

James Cone's going to be on it. You can't pretend to write or speak about a subject without familiarizing yourself with James Cone.

That's part of scholarship, okay? Fundamentalists look at that and go, no, no, no, no, he's a complete heretic, so you should never cite him, you should never put a, no, no, that's not how you do scholarship.

Here's the problem. These seminary professors are not just citing James Cone in the context of, if you need, if you want to understand where black power theology is coming from.

Have you heard the name Talbert Swan, Bishop Talbert Swan? Yeah, I heard about him for the first time on The Dividing Line recently.

Okay, all right, well, he's, he, this guy is just absolutely amazing.

I am not convinced he actually exists as a human being. I think he might be a computer algorithm, sort of like those computer programs where they are looser, you can get looser insults for people, you can ask them and it'll pull up an insult, looser.

I think that may be the same thing with this Bishop Talbert Swan guy, because you try to communicate with him and you just get this massive number of white supremacist, you're a white supremacist, this, that, oppressor, da -da -da -da, insults back at you, and that's all you get.

There's never any substance to it. But here is a guy who is the essence of what

James Cone was attempting to present and teach, and he was one of his students. So if you want to see what

James Swan, these individuals who are very much in favor of absolute division between white and black in the church and everything else, they're the result.

And what we're getting is we're getting these individuals in conservative seminaries that are not just saying, well, you need to read

James Cone to understand what's wrong with James Cone, but you need to read James Cone and take the good with the bad.

And he will, he will open your eyes to a whole new... Look, I've read Cone, and the only thing he's going to open your eyes to is a neo -Marxist worldview that is absolutely destructive of anything even close to Christianity.

And so when I encounter someone who says to me, well, you know,

I learned a lot from James Cone, then I realize I'm dealing with someone here who has a fundamentally different perspective than I do in regards to the nature of biblical authority,

Trinity, the deity of Christ, everything. Now, Cone was not a stupid man by any stretch of the imagination.

And you can go for pages in Cone where he's quoting from various theologians of the day,

Barth would probably be the most conservative guy you'd quote from, but then all of a sudden it just changes, it just shifts into something completely different when it comes to application.

It's an amazing thing. So, yeah, we're seeing this in our own seminaries now, and even saying what

I said, I mean, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, one of the Southern Baptist seminaries, when

Cone died last year, did a whole series of podcasts honoring him.

And of course, they're all like, we don't agree with everything that Dr. Cone said.

Well, that would be like having podcasts honoring the Mormon prophet when he died. We didn't agree with everything that he said, but he had some great insight.

No, that's not going to happen, and nor should it happen. It's one thing to study someone so as to accurately represent them, it's something completely other to say, you know, my worldview was formed by this man.

And we are starting to see professors in places we never expected to see them.

And that's what they're saying, my worldview was formed by what James Cone said. And so the writers bringing up that name, that is a, yeah, look up James Cone on the

Dividing Line archives, and you'll get an earful. It won't be enjoyable to listen to, but just a couple weeks ago,

I spent, I don't know, at least two programs reading portions from James Cone's works, once again, because people forget.

We have John in Bangor, Maine, who asks, when we hear our friends who believe in the social justice warrior rhetoric confront us with our lovingly quoting and citing and following such great heroes of the faith as J.

Pettigrew Boyce and R. L. Dabney and others who had racist views, how can we respond to them knowing that we are complaining about them quoting racists such as Dr.

Cone? Well, the thing is, we have to define the term racism, because it has been redefined in our day.

I am called a racist if I do not accept social justice categories. So if I, you know, when people talk about systemic racism, well, if racism, if we're talking about racism biblically, then it's a sin.

And any human system is going to have sin within it. But one of the first questions that I have to ask anybody anymore is, if you're using the term racism as a

Christian, do you mean that it is a sin? If they say yes, then my next question is, is it a sin that can be committed by every man and woman equally?

Amen. And the answer almost always from a social justice warrior will be no.

Bishop Swan, for example, we just mentioned, said to me just the week before last, there is no such thing as black racism.

A black person cannot be a racist, which means that he's defining racism in a completely different way than could ever be defined from a biblical perspective.

And of course, he's coming from James Cone's perspective, so yeah, the Bible isn't the source of any of that. And so, if it's a...

and here's the problem. Within the Church, what's happening is, you use the term racist, and what you want people to hear is the sinful use of that phrase.

But then you're not using it from a biblical definition, you're using the political definition to derive it, but then you want the onus, you want the negativity, you want the shame of the biblical concept.

The problem is, the biblical concept is based upon an individual attitude and action. It's sinful attitude and action on the part of a man or a woman to be prejudicial, to be unfair, to have hatred in a person's heart based upon skin color or ethnicity.

But that's not what racism is within the political context. Within the political context, every white man is a racist by definition, whether you've ever acted upon that, whether that has anything to do with your heart, what fills your heart, you're just an oppressor, period.

So there's no personal activity where you're violating

God's law that is relevant to the political definition of racism that has now become functional within our society.

And so, when you mix the two together, you create massive, massive confusion.

And so, when we look at individuals from the past who, in their day, held views of the races that we recognize are grossly unbiblical, and were unbiblical then, and they should have known better, and were a part of a culture that accepted this kind of definition, then we mourn at the overlaying of a cultural concept over the biblical reality.

You don't fix that, or you don't do penance for that, by putting a new social norm over the biblical reality, which is exactly what we're being told we have to do.

Oh, it was bad back then that George Whitefield used slave labor to build his orphanage in Georgia.

So you can't look at what his intentions were, you can't look at what he said about slave ownership or sermons about that.

No, you have to judge him by the standards of today, and the way that you undo the evil that was done then is to take an even worse world lens, based on neo -Marxism and critical theory, which denies that man's even created the image of God, and lay that over scripture, and that's how you start making penance for what happened back then.

The point is that in critical theory, in the woke church, there is no redemption, there is no end game, there is no way to actually gain forgiveness in the final analysis for all this stuff.

So when someone asks, how can we briefly respond, you can't, that's the problem. That's why this is so cancerous, that's why this is so destructive today, is because there are so many interlocking issues and definitions, and those pushing this agenda, they market on the abuse of language.

And so they want the term racism to have multiple meanings, so they can utilize it for the promotion of their agenda.

Now, I'm not saying that the vast majority of Christians in churches are necessarily in any way knowingly doing this, but they end up doing it because they're following the cultural trends around them, and they're buying into the redefinition of things that should be defined biblically, but are not being defined biblically.

So unfortunately, basically if you say, well, if you want to look at people in the past, you need to judge them by the standards that existed in their day in light of Scripture.

And so if you see that there was a time in the early Church, for example, and let me look here, wrong one, 345, okay.

I've taught Church history for many, many years, and one of the things I've tried to teach my students over the years is that you need to, and you've heard me in the debates we had on Long Island for years in dealing with Roman Catholics, say you have to allow the early

Church Fathers to be the early Church Fathers. You can't try to turn them into Baptists, and I don't, and you can't try to turn them into Roman Catholics, which

Roman Catholics do. By dogmatic decree from Rome, they have to turn them into Roman Catholics, in essence.

And I say you can't do that. In Church history, you have to look at the context in which someone lived, and the reality is,

I will want to be judged by future generations based upon what I knew, not based upon what they know or think they know.

And so you have to have a meaningful historiographical approach to judging anyone in the past.

The problem is, in the woke Church, in the social justice movement, that is anathema.

The reason you rip down statues and you change history is because the only meaningful historiography where you judge people based upon where they were and what they knew and things like that, that's destroyed.

And you replace that with, and we see this, we see this on the micro level.

How many times over the past couple years has someone lost the opportunity to host the

Oscars or whatever it might be, and it's because someone dug up something that they said 16 years ago, when they were 16 years old.

And so if you're going to do that with people who are living, then obviously the whole idea is that you're going to take your current neo -Marxist standard and read it back into all of history.

And as a result, every single president of the United States is now a racist, bigoted transphobe.

I mean, that's what the younger generation is thinking. Now, I remember thinking the irony in the left wanting to be so forgiving to prison inmates and releasing them long before the sentence that they were given.

And these are for crimes much more heinous and much more recent than the

Oscar hosts and other people. And yet, it doesn't seem to make sense that they want those people to be given mercy, but people who have something that they did that they're embarrassed by in their childhood being brought up by the same leftists, it makes no sense at all.

No, and so when you apply this to history, then you end up judging people of the past by the standards that we have today.

And, of course, they'll say, well, but it's just biblical standards. Yeah, but the reality is that there are times when those biblical standards end up underneath a cultural overlay, and that's what the study of church history does, is it warns us that we can end up doing the exact same thing.

We can end up having the exact same cultural overlay and calling it the Word of God or calling it biblical orthodoxy when it's the same thing.

But, and so that's one of the reasons I have, for decades, highly recommended the study of church history to people, because it does give you that opportunity of basically having a mirror by which it's not the only way in which we can sort of see ourselves with some level of objectivity.

We have to go to our final break right now, and we're just going to extend the program a few minutes longer because we have a number of people waiting to have their questions asked, and we'll have to do some editing with advertising later, but if you have a question and you want to get in line, do so quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.

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Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reformed Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

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That's linbrookbaptist .org. Welcome back, and we have actually, before I take this question,

I wanted to ask you, Dr. White, have you become aware of this social justice warrior thinking backfiring on this movement when it comes to the great black heroes of American history?

If you were to examine their lives, I'm sure that the vast majority of them did not have a feminist mindset towards women.

So, I could readily see, if they were being logically consistent, monuments of great black heroes of the faith being torn down because they would be considered misogynist in the 21st century.

Of course, that's what intersectionality does. You may have great credentials in one particular area, but intersectionality requires you buy the entire narrative, the entire worldview.

And especially when it comes to, like I said, if you accept this kind of thinking, not only every founder of this nation, but every president, every senator up until only 10 years ago was a quote -unquote transphobe.

And, I mean, it's getting to the point where, in places where I don't even know why anybody lives in places like this, but New York City and...

Well, there goes about half my audience. Look, they're trying to make it a act against law to misgender someone.

In social media, you can be kicked off for deadnaming. I mean, these are words that even in your craziest

Marty Luther... Marty Party, Marty Luther Day, you could not have thought up these words that we are now finding in law with massive fines attached to them if you deadname someone or misgender someone.

It is an entire worldview that turns all of history into a mishmash of...

Yeah, you've got to tear everything down, because nobody until this generation thought in the insane way this generation demands that we think.

So, yeah, and that's what they want. They don't want you to have any connection with the past. They don't want you to have any pride in the past.

They want to completely disconnect you from that, so that all you have is the state, and then the state becomes your deity, and the state then controls you.

A people who don't know their history, a people who do not know what cost their ancestors paid for their liberties and their freedoms and their nation, those people are the easiest to control in the world.

And that's exactly what we're seeing happen. RJ in White Plains, New York, wants to know what is the most crucial matter that the social justice warrior movement places

Christians and others in the greatest danger? Well, it divides the church. I mean, it is the very...

And this is what I got into trouble with right at the start. And it was the first thing that I even commented on when

I began to address this issue, is you end up with white spaces, black spaces, Asian spaces, whatever.

You have the very thing that Paul clearly saw was the greatest danger for the church.

And that is, he saw that there was the danger of a Jewish Christian church versus Gentile Christians.

And when you understand that, then you understand his anathematizing of the

Judaizers in Galatia. The strong words that he used there is because of what that would have resulted in in two different churches.

And that's what we're seeing today. The basis of the unity of believers that the

Apostles practiced in their day is under direct attack by the application of social justice categories and by the woke church.

The woke church is a broke church. I mean, that may sound like a nice little rhyme, but the point is that this type of woke church idea results in a fundamental division of the body.

We end up with different standings before God. And when a group of African American church leaders called for an ecumenical council to have me declared a heretic, because I said, there is only, at the

Lord's table, there is no place for ethnicity, there is only a place for Jesus.

If you're at the Lord's table and you're trying to make a white space or a black space or anything else out of that space, you don't understand what is going on in that.

That gave you the clear idea of what this movement is fundamentally all about.

By the way, I interviewed in 2009 Anthony Bradley. And Anthony Bradley was mocking and making fun of, even to the point of laughter, and calling them morons.

Anybody who would say that black people cannot be guilty of racism, is he maintaining that truth?

That's ironic, that is. Well, there are a lot of men who in 2008 -2009 were saying things like that, that in 2019 are saying the opposite of that.

And they don't want to necessarily admit that they've changed, but Anthony Bradley especially has become just abusive toward Reformed Baptists especially, and is now very much caught up in the woke church movement, unfortunately.

Well, I would like to have him back and have perhaps you or somebody else play parts of that interview, because it's just amazing.

I mean, he was really mocking at the top of his lungs people who believed that a black person could not be a racist.

We just have about a minute or so, if you could summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

Well, what we were just talking about there at the end, the fundamental issue is that in the early church, you only, you had so many different ethnicities that were coming together at one table.

And the reason they could do that was because their identity was not derived from a political concept of identity politics and ethnicity and everything else.

Their identity was derived from the fact that they were sinners saved by grace, they had one imputed righteousness from one

Savior, it was their one access to God, and that's what provided the tremendous unity of the church.

And when you allow a social construct system to be overlaid over Scripture, to destroy that foundational message of what the gospel is, it will be destructive for everybody.

And that is, I think, one of the greatest challenges that we're facing in the Western world. Well, folks, if you want to learn more about James White and the

Dividing Line program and all the books that he has written, go to aomin .org,

that stands for Alpha and Omega Ministries, aomin .org. You can also find out more about the

Apologia Church, where he pastors alongside Jeff Durbin, that's ApologiaChurch .com,

ApologiaChurch .com, A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A Church .com.

You can also go to Apologia Studios, that's ApologiaStudios .com,

there's an S at the end of that, ApologiaStudios .com. And don't forget about the G3 conference this January 16th through the 18th in Atlanta, Georgia, on the theme of Worship Matters.

And Dr. James R. White is on that roster with a whole bunch of other folks, including Dr. John MacArthur. That's G3conference .com,

G3conference .com. Dr. White, please don't be a stranger so long and please come back earlier, or sooner,

I should say, to Iron Sharp Design Radio for another interview. We would love to have you back as often as you are available. Thanks, Chris.

God bless. You too, brother. God bless. And I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater