March 20, 2017 Show with Craig Biehl on “God the Reason: How Infinite Excellence Gives Unbreakable Faith”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,.

Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet Earth listening via live

streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this

20th day of March 2017.

I'm so delighted to have back on the program today Dr. Craig Beal,

who'll be with us for the full two hours of the broadcast.

Dr. Beal is the founder of Pilgrims Rock, a ministry which develops courses and other material

to boost the believer's joy, comfort, and faith in Christ and scripture, and to

nurture in believers and their children a God honoring an intellectually defensible worldview that can

survive and thrive in the face of sophisticated attacks of unbelief, an

instructor for the Unbreakable Faith course at the Lancaster Bible College Center for Urban

Theological Studies in Philadelphia.

Today we are discussing Dr. Beal's book, God the Reason, How Infinite Excellence

Gives Unbreakable Faith, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr.

Craig Beal.

Chris, it's a privilege to be here, thanks for having me back on.

And let me give our listeners our email address right away, it is chrisarnzen at

gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence,

if you live outside the good old USA.

And for our listeners who were not with us last time, if you could please describe Pilgrim's.

Rock.

Pilgrim's Rock is about 15 years of teaching a

particular apologetics course, and seeing the need for a very specific

apologetic that zeroes in on the presuppositions of unbelief as well as

belief.

And so, we decided to launch Pilgrim's Rock as a means of

disseminating this particular approach.

It's a Vantillian approach, Shefferian approach, with a lot of Jonathan Edwards thrown in, to

children and parents, well actually high schoolers and parents, and then we broadened it for churches

as well as, of course, I do teach it as an adjunct at different colleges at

different times.

So that was the impetus for that, just to -it's a very particular method, but we think it's very,

very powerful, and we simplified it so that we feel it can be taken out of the hallowed halls of

academia and brought into the living rooms of anybody.

And that's our desiring.

Goal.

And if you could, I'd like you to share with our listeners the prayer request that you had.

Pressing upon your heart today.

Yes, thank you, Chris.

Just before we came on the program, I received a call from a dear friend, and his wife had a knee

replacement last week, devolved into a

MRSA infection.

That's a, you know, a staph infection that's resistant to antibiotics, and so they put

a direct link into an artery by the heart in order to pump in the antibiotics.

And so we would just pray.

Her name is Ellen, it's different

for Sam and Ellen.

Yes, and I will continue to pray after the program is over as well, as I did

pray with you privately before the show, and will continue to do so.

And by the way, in your bio, you teach

the Unbreakable Faith course at the Lancaster Bible College Center for Urban Theological

Studies in Philadelphia.

Is that the organization that my old friend Carl Ellis was affiliated with?

I believe so, that was...

Okay.

And this book that you've written that we are going to be discussing today, God the

Reason How Infinite Excellence Gives Unbreakable Faith, that should be

encouraging to everyone listening, because if everybody listening

out there is anything like me, our faith very often seems

anything but unbreakable.

We can have very fragile moments and dark trials, but let

me read some of the commendations that this book has received

from guests who have been on the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

Dr. Peter Lilback, president of Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, says,

Craig Beal's God the Reason is a remarkable book.

It presents theology proper, the knowledge of God, in all of its transcendent importance and

breadth.

It does so in a way that is accessible, clear, and spiritually invigorating.

If you are thirsting for a deeper and more personal knowledge of the Lord of the universe, drink deeply of

this study.

The divine perfection celebrated here will bless your life, stir your reason, and ground your faith on an

unmovable foundation.

And Dr. Joel Beakey, president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, who has been on

this program many times, he says, this thought -provoking work shows the emptiness of

atheism from an angle not often taken.

Without indulging in technical terminology or obscure philosophical arguments, Craig

Beal starts with the attributes of God revealed in scripture, builds a rational worldview upon them,

and demonstrates convincingly that without such a God, life makes no sense at all.

And then we have someone who I haven't interviewed, who I would love to interview, Dr. John Frame,

professor of Reform Theological Seminary.

He says, Craig Beal's God the Reason is a very thorough, presuppositional, apologetic, arguing God's

existence and his necessity for all reasoning, thinking, meaning, and therefore living.

The book is a continuous, orderly defense of the biblical worldview.

Its arguments are clear and cogent.

I hope it gains many readers, Christian and non -Christian alike.

And then finally, Dr. Richard Gaffin, who I interviewed years ago on this program,

right before a cruise he was speaking on.

He is professor emeritus at Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

And he says, this volume explores in a compelling manner how the truth of the being and primary attributes

or perfections of God is essential for fundamental issues of faith and life.

Written for a wide audience, it will be read with considerable profit in our increasingly

secularized times.

Quite profound and powerful commendations that you've received.

Well, let's start the program with a deeper explanation

of the truth that God created and.

Sustains everything.

Well, in the book, through each attribute, and then for each attribute, we

expound on the apologetic implications.

So it's not just a study of the attributes, it's a study of the implications or apologetics

for our faith of the attribute.

And so God is eternal.

God is uncreated.

God has no beginning.

And as an implication of that, and therefore, the

universe depends on God for its existence for everything on an ongoing basis.

So nothing could exist if God didn't exist, if God didn't order and sustain it every moment of every

day.

And that includes what I'm called natural laws, but not

natural laws per se.

This is every quark and atom and molecule in the universe every moment of every

day.

So there's really no such thing as a natural law that exists in

and of itself, organizing the universe.

And so because God is created and sustains everything, we depend on God for everything.

We depend on him for life.

We depend on him for true authority.

It's something we don't always think about.

And we depend upon him, of course, in addition, because he

created all things, everything.

So God needs absolutely nothing.

He's perfect, apart from his creation.

And he didn't need to create us anything, but he did.

And because he did, we owe him.

So in addition to that, of course, of everything at every moment of

every day, then everything in the universe displays his divine excellence.

So you could say

that all things bear

his thing,

everything, and

therefore

excuse.

Deep down, any unbeliever, we sharing the gospel, pointing to

the infinite excellence of God, deep down in their soul and

righteousness.

So those are some of the worldview apologetic implications of the fact that God

created and sustains everything.

Go from there through all of the attributes and each of them have significant implications of their own.

And as we go on, I just want to

say this, probably going to be true because a lot of the implications of an attribute

are implications of many attributes, because God, of course, undivided,

divided them up as to

what implication might be the

most.

We have a listener in New York City, Tony, who asks, I don't know how.

Familiar your guest is with Gordon Clark, but could he, in summary form,

give a comparison and contrast between Dr. Gordon H.

Clark and Cornelius Van Till in regard to their apologetic?

Well, I knew somebody was going to ask that.

Are you a prophet?

And I can't believe it's the first question.

Now, we need to ask about the book.

But anyways, let me just say this, there's a chapter in Greg

Bonson's book, Presuppositional Apologetics, it's the book that was published after his death.

He has a chapter in there where he goes through the arguments that ensued between Van

Till and Gordon Clark.

It's a complicated discussion.

Maybe there was insufficient definition on both sides at times, and sometimes the language used may have

been a little bit unclear

on Gordon Clark, at least Clark in his early days.

They seem to diverge,

matured in his thinking, or changed in his thinking.

I really, I would

be statements and get

into the nuances of it, and

has several sections in Van Till's Apologetic on this.

And in that book, Presuppositional Apologetics, he has an entire chapter devoted to it.

And of course, there's no lack of arguments from both sides all

further than this.

And one accusation was that Van Till

denied that, as God knows truth, or as Van Till would say, we can, and as

Schaefer would say, we can know truth truly, but we can't know it in the way that God knows it,

i .e. as an independent, sovereign, infinite God who knows

everything the

way God knows it, because Van

Till was careful to try and maintain the truth.

There's aspects of that that I really don't want to share, it's

a kind of debate,

facted debate.

And so I just, I just...

That's quite all right.

And Tony, I don't know what date it will be, but God willing, I will be having an

interview within the next several months, hopefully, with a

Reformed Baptist who has written a book defending

the Clarkian side of the, of apologetics.

So, and I will give more details when that interview gets

closer to coming to fruition.

And by the way, Tony, you have actually won a free copy of the book, God, the Reason, How

Infinite Excellence Gives Unbreakable Faith, compliments of Carpenter Sun

Publishing and our guest, Dr. Craig Beal.

And this will be shipped out to you by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CV for Cumberland

Valley, bbs4biblebookservice .com.

So keep an eye open in the mail for that.

Not to belabor that question, but it is interesting how the Clarkian

supporters who have contacted me,

I don't want to broad brush my brethren who have that apologetic ideology, but

the hostility that I have received from some of them is

unusual, whereas the Vantillian supporters don't seem to have that hostility towards

the other side.

And I mean that typically, I don't mean, obviously there could be.

Vantillians who are rabid anti -Clarkian individuals, but...

We're just likable, lovable.

You know,

there's caged Clarkians

and there's caged

Vantillians.

I think it's important for both sides to understand that.

It changed over time, but

there's a lot of in -house debate where they were really...

The debate is probably not commensurate with any level of differences between

the two, far beyond what it's...

You know, Vantill can slice things rather

thinly and he can even what goes after Schaeffer and others for their inconsistencies,

very...

And well, if

you

could.

Get into further depth on how the universe depends on God for everything.

He spoke everything into.

Existence by his word, used

that kind of language,

because he didn't really speak the laws into existence.

He spoke matter, energy into existence, and even time, because God transcends time.

But the organization and the sustaining of the universe is an ongoing act.

So the minute God quits

and what

he

created are separate, and God are separate.

But that anything and everything depends upon his ongoing

genius and power.

So everything in the

universe is dependent upon God for everything, and that goes all the way to

epistemology when we get into God's creatures.

He's the source and sustainer of all truth.

He knows everything perfectly.

It hasn't even happened or haven't

even existed.

He knows anything and everything

that's positive remarks about the nature of God and his universe when they don't have revelation to support

it.

The nature of miracles, because when we think of miracles, oftentimes we think of God intervening

into the universe.

God's just doing something a little bit different in a

particular place in

the universe every

moment of

every day.

He's upholding it, ordering

neutron in

the Jonah in a whale

for three plagues upon Egypt, or part the Red Sea, or

bring manna from heaven, or you name it.

If God isn't

involved, what's the difficulty of any of

God who's spoken orders

of every day?

Evidence of God, you

know, do a miracle, God.

I need to see something supernatural.

Supernatural, natural distinction.

Everything in a sense is divine.

Not divine in that it's equal or part of God.

It's God doing something in the universe.

So somebody to look at a sunset, a sunrise, the stars in the sky, the birth of a baby,

their eyes, ears, and senses, anything and everything in the universe, to

see all that organized and upheld perfectly every day by God, and then

ask, hey, you know, show me some proof of God by a miracle.

It's absurd, because they're drowning in a sea of evidence for God's existence, and they're

asking for additional evidence when a sunrise and a sunset is just as big, if we can use the terminology,

a miracle is God making the sun stand still in the sky.

So everything depends upon God at every moment of every day, has implications for

a great many things that are sometimes attempted to be turned upon Christians,

contradict, or when really, for all

things, it's one of the part

from God, order,

and chance produces nothing of what we see in this universe from whatever we look at in a test tube to

anything and everything that we can see examined through science in this universe is quite

impossible apart from an infinite God of infinite genius,.

A little bit long.

Well, I want you to be as long as you need to be, because we do have a two -hour program, and I want you to obviously

be as detailed as we possibly can get.

And I'm going to ask a question from one of our listeners before we go to the break, and you can answer it

when we return from the break.

This will give you an opportunity to mull the question over, because he basically wants three

arguments from you.

Casey, who's originally from the Philippines, but now lives in Kannapolis, North Carolina,

Casey asks, what are the top three arguments you hear from atheists,

and how can you use presuppositional apologetics, and then evidence in apologetics,

to refute those arguments?

And if you could mull that over while we go to a station break, and if anybody else would like to join us on

the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com, c -h -r -i

-s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail dot com.

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside of the USA,

and please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private question,

something involving your family, perhaps you disagree with your past, or something along those lines that are

so personal that you would rather remain anonymous.

But other than that, please give us your first name at least, your city, state, and country of residence.

So don't go away, we'll be right back, God willing, right after these messages from our sponsors.

That really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wmg .org forward slash iron sharpens

to get your World Trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit

card required.

Visit World News Group at wmg .org forward

slash iron sharpens today.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

At batterydepot .com, they're changing the status quo.

They're flipping the script.

They're sticking it to the man.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.

Ordering from batterydepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh, out -of -the -box batteries you

can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs,

laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card

readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPSs, MP3 players,

watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries, go to batterydepot

.com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768.

That's 866 -403 -3768.

Or go to batterydepot .com.

That's batterydepot .com.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study,.

Because everyone needs a pastor.

Iron Sharpens.

Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to our family.

Of sponsors.

Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering,

understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations, including kitchen and bath

remodeling, decks, porches, windows and doors, roof and siding, and

more.

For a clear, detailed professional estimate, call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981,

717 -697 -1981, or visit

solidrockremodeling .com.

That's solidrockremodeling .com.

Solid Rock.

Remodeling, bringing new life to your home.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement

to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for

Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnsen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is Dr.

Craig Beal, founder of Pilgrims Rock, a ministry which develops courses and other material to

boost the believer's joy, comfort, and faith in Christ and Scripture, and to nurture in believers and their

children a God -honoring, intellectually defensible worldview that can

survive and thrive in the face of sophisticated attacks of unbelief.

And he's an instructor for the Unbreakable Faith course at the Lancaster Bible College

Center for Urban Theological Studies in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

We are discussing his book, God the Reason, How Infinite Excellence Gives Unbreakable Faith.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail

.com.

Before the break, we asked you, Dr. Beal,

we posed to you the question from Casey in Kannapolis, North Carolina.

What are the top three arguments you hear from atheists, and how can you use

presuppositional apologetics and then evidence in apologetics to refute those.

Arguments?

And so we do

in God

the Reason as we

start from in the beginning God and we work our way to

infinite excellence and the unbeliever's worldview as rooted in and founded

a blind faith, and unsupportable, and inconsistent with the nature of reality as we know it.

So in its approach to see

any and every argument as founded upon these ultimate faith assumptions.

So what we try not to do is make it a, okay, here's the argument, here's the answer, here's the argument, here's the answer.

What we do is we first try to establish, here's the issue, here's the approach, and it can be

applied to anything.

So I would highly recommend you pick up the book and maybe even the box, which

the nature of all

argumentation, all thinking, and knowledge.

So that is sort of an introductory caveat.

That's what we try to do.

Now, in answer to your question more specifically, it's an argument

as it is a picture,

reality, or logic, or anything, and it's the reason

in science.

So the argument is you guys are believing in something that you can't prove

scientifically, whereas we are scientific and reasonable, and we're looking at the universe that way

and therefore drawing conclusions for

this one.

But what you do is

you show things

apart from an ultimate authority.

So if you were to ask the unbeliever, well, where is

the nature of God,

what he

can do,

what he can't do?

And that's not by showing that

everybody uses religion by

faith in an ultimate authority.

It's not an issue of what

to do, how to interpret the fact.

No, we may both be looking at the same fact, but different

object of faith and of

redemption and part

of his

all -encompassing plan that everything in the universe is part of.

Ultimately, all you have to ask them is a couple questions, how do you know, how do you know?

And basically, they are trusting their own personal perspective and interpretation of that fact.

Therefore, their faith is in themselves, whereas we are placing our faith in the

God who created it, sustains it, knows everything about it.

So it's not an issue of two people disagreeing and having, we're both reasonable and

objective people.

No, we both interpret reality according to a set of precepts.

The unbeliever interpreting that fact according to their assumption that God doesn't exist and

that they can know things apart from God and that their opinion and their perspective ultimately

to the question or

we're examining God in Scripture.

So the first thing that needs to be pointed out, it's a difference of

authorities and not a difference of opinion.

Secondly, we need to point out that their object of faith is their own personal opinion, ours is

Scripture.

Thirdly, we need to point out that

exclude them from being an ultimate authority and interpreter.

This is in the box, if they don't know, if an unbeliever, and I don't know either, I

don't know what's in my neighbor's garage unless I go inside and look at it.

The unbeliever can't know what's in their neighbor's garage without looking inside it.

They are limited.

They don't know, given their

human limitations, how can they know how they can't do

this?

Some with Bent Hill called

brute or they're just unrelated.

One of the many questions that philosophers haven't been able to answer

apart from God until this day.

So what we do is we show them that their object of faith can't deliver on the goods.

Their object of faith cannot answer the question they claim to answer.

And it's not an issue of they have science and reason, it's an issue of their trusting in their

interpretation, and their interpretation is by a limited person who doesn't know what's in their neighbor's

garage, whereas we're trusting in the interpretation of the guy who created it.

Know that everything in the

universe, time and chance, is inadequate for anything in the

universe.

So in that particular instance, it's

asking what's in their neighbor's

garage is trustworthy.

Can we trust personal opinion?

I don't mean to deny God, they're asking me to trust in their view, and they don't know what's in my neighbor's

garage.

I mean, it's always boils down to an issue of faith.

Third question, whose ultimate object of faith is reasonable and justified?

A God of infinite excellence who created everything, everything bears his fingerprints, all design,

you know, implies a designer, etc.

They don't know a whole lot.

They're limited is adequate to

explain.

So this idea that they use

fans and we operate according to faith, according

to faith, and

answer no ultimate questions, science can only explain

beyond that science, no science, because science relies

upon as it

did yesterday.

And that's in time and chance produces of

infinite power.

Can he

do miracles?

And they'll

say, yeah, but he doesn't

exist.

So then the question becomes, well, what do you have to know to know that

this answer is, they'd have to know everything about everything in the universe and

beyond to know that this God does not exist.

So for them to make the statement, God doesn't exist, they're assuming omniscience.

That's the underlying presupposition.

The underlying assumption is they can know things that they can't possibly know.

Well, that's irrational.

So if an infinite God can do miracles, and if it requires knowledge of

everything in the universe and beyond to know that this infinite God doesn't exist, which is impossible for them to know, then they

have no basis whatsoever to say that Jonah and a whale is irrational or unreasonable.

In a universe created and sustained by an infinite God,

that's all

compared to God, an atom and molecule.

And so the miracles of scripture one, they throw that at us all the

time.

You guys believe in an arc.

How unscientific is that?

Well, let me, let me just explore that a little bit with you when you be gracious and kind and loving to the unbeliever,

but show them that for them to deny the miracles of scripture, they need to have the omniscience of the God they deny, which is

in itself is a self -contradictory that they have, that

they have to be

the God they

deny.

So number

three would be

the

problem

in the universe and beyond, including God's nature to know

that somehow a God who is good is a reason that's beyond our limited

understanding.

And secondly, now are you telling me

good God

can exist

in the same limited understanding that doesn't know what's in their neighbor's garage?

The ultimate standard of what God can and cannot be, or whether God

can and cannot

exist.

So what they said, if I

don't

understand it,

the

believers handling the

facilities

out further

question, and that is this.

Anytime we come to a

great mystery,

God in the nature of our own human limitations,

you admit our human limitations with respect to a great many things, but somehow when it comes to God, we

become immediately omniscient.

Well, uniting God is infinite.

So what do we need to do as believers when we approach things like the problem of evil or sovereignty and

human responsibility or preordination and human responsibility, and you name it,

that I lay out in God the reason that I think are very helpful.

Number one is God's ways are perfect in every way and infinitely higher than our ways.

So that's Isaiah 55.

His ways are higher than our ways as the heavens are above the earth.

We have to accept that.

If we're unwilling to accept that,

good, and he's revealed to us that he's infinitely powerful, and he's revealed to us that the

origin of evil resides in the will of created beings, and beyond that, we don't have a

whole, we can't go very much further than that.

Number three, our limited understanding does not constitute the standard of truth of what can or cannot be true

with God, or what God can and cannot do in his universe.

Our limited understanding cannot determine such things, compromise

any revealed attribute of God, or any

necessary implication of an attribute of God.

At that point, we're making our own understanding higher than God's revelation, and we're just not allowed to do that.

That's irreverent.

Number five, the responsibility and guilt of sin are those

who sin, including the four ordained acts of sinners, i .e. Acts 2.

And number six, and this is a very important key, that

God has remedied evil at infinite cost, redeeming, in the redeeming work

of Christ, perfect righteousness, and he's sufficiently

revealed as perfect, in that he couldn't save a single soul without

maintaining his perfect holiness and righteousness.

He couldn't even do a good act to sinners without maintaining his justice.

This God goes the infinite extent of taking infinite wrath on his own soul in

order to maintain his justice, to do rightly.

And so he has revealed his perfect character sufficiently that we can fully trust his

character in the face of mysteries and difficulties, things that we can't reconcile in our finite

use of logic, our finite...

Okay, see, that's a great question, and I've gone a little long with the answer, but I think it's needful that we

understand that this is not just a quick and easy fix

in the beginning God,.

So it's a great question.

And in fact, Casey, I think that you should take the recording of the

answer from Iron Trump and Zion Radio's website tomorrow, which will be archived there, transcribe

the answer, and hand it to Carpenter's Son Publishing for perhaps a booklet

to be published with a summary of apologetics to atheists.

So I think that would make an excellent little booklet or track.

But we are going to a break right now.

In fact, I'm going to read another question for you before the break, brother, that you can answer when we

return from the break.

Lou from Sharpsburg, Georgia says, can you give an example of how you

put Proverbs 26, 4 -5 into practice?

And let me read Proverbs 26, verses 4 -5.

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will also be like him.

Answer a fool as his folly deserves, that he not be wise in his own

eyes.

Perhaps when we return from the break, you could answer Lou from Sharpsburg, Georgia's question regarding

that proverb.

If anybody else would like to join us on the air, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And by the way, Casey, you have won a free copy of God, the Reason, How Infinite

Excellence Gives Unbreakable Faith.

So keep your eye open for a package in the mail from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

CVBBS .com.

CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for BibleBookService .com.

And that should be arriving within a week or two.

And that's compliments of our friends at Carpenter Sun Publishing, compliments of our guest, Dr. Craig

Beal, and compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who will be shipping that out to you at no cost to

you or to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Don't go away.

We will be right back after these messages with more of Dr. Craig Beal and God,

the Reason, How Infinite Excellence Gives Unbreakable Faith.

Don't go away.

God willing, we will be right back after these messages.

Chef Exclusive Catering is in South Central Pennsylvania.

Chef Exclusive's goal is to provide a dining experience that is sure to please any palate.

Chef Danian White of Chef Exclusive is a graduate of the renowned Johnson and Wales University with a degree in

Culinary Arts and Applied Science.

Chef Exclusive Catering's event center is newly designed with elegance and style and is available for

small office gatherings, bridal showers, engagement parties, and rehearsal dinners.

Critics and guests alike acknowledge Chef Exclusive's commitment to exceeding even the highest

expectations.

I know of their quality firsthand since Chef Exclusive catered by most recent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

Pastor's Luncheon.

For details call 717 -388 -3000.

That's 717 -388 -3000.

Or visit chefexclusive .com.

That's chefexclusive .com.

Thriving Financial is not your typical financial services provider.

As a membership organization, we help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day.

And for the fourth year in a row, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the Ethisphere Institute,

a leading international think tank dedicated to the creation, advancement, and sharing of best practices

in business ethics.

Contact me, Mike Gallagher, Financial Consultant

at 717 -254 -6433.

Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about the Thriving Difference.

A new faith, finances, and generosity.

That's the Thriving Story.

Upstore Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience

featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service

times.

631 -929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

731 -929 -3512.

Or check out their website

at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

Sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat center nestled on the Jersey

Shore.

Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples,

singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington,

and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like the Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org.

Hcbible

.org.

Call 609 -494 -5689.

609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars,.

Where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to

youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for

Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

That's 508 -528 -5750.

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled

Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org.

That's providencebaptistchurchma .org.

Or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

use BatteryDepot .com for all your battery needs.

At BatteryDepot .com, they're changing the status quo.

They're flipping the script.

They're sticking it to the man.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.

Ordering from BatteryDepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out -of -the -box batteries you

can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs,

laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card

readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPSs, MP3 players,

watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries, go to BatteryDepot

.com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768.

That's 866 -403 -3768.

Or go to BatteryDepot .com.

That's BatteryDepot .com.

Lynnbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynnbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday.

Worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynnbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

be.

Call Lynnbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit Lynnbrookbaptist .org.

That's Lynnbrookbaptist .org.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm eastern time on WLIE radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's.

Study because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than an hour to go is Dr.

Craig Beal.

We are discussing his book, God the Reason, How Infinite Excellence Gives

Unbreakable Faith.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Before I return to our discussion, I want to remind you that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is an urgent need for new

advertisers and benefactors who are willing to donate.

If you are a pastor, a leader in a parachurch organization, a business owner,

a corporate executive, a professional person like a doctor, lawyer, dentist,

chiropractor, and you want to advertise your services or your products

on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, well then email me as soon as you can at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Perhaps you're having an upcoming event, a bible conference, or some kind of a special event that you

want me to promote.

Please email me and obviously if what you are promoting is within the

guidelines of the doctrinal statement of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,

I will be more than happy to promote what you do and will be looking forward to hearing from you.

If you just care to donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, a check of any amount

would be welcome.

If you go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click on support which is the third option at the

top of the page and that will give you a mailing address where you can mail your checks

made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio or you can also make them payable to Cruciform

Media, C -R -U -C -I -F -O -R -M Media.

Either way, we would love to receive your checks of any amount and I do

apologize for being more frequent and more regular with these public appeals

but these are urgent needs that need to be met and in fact I have been urged

by my advertisers to make these public appeals so that is one of the key reasons I'm doing

that and those of you who know me and who have listened to the program since 2006 know that

these public appeals are a very rare thing until very recently.

They may be regular and daily these days for the last several weeks but I have gone

years in a row without any public appeal for donations or advertising so

obviously the need is great right now and I thank all of you from the bottom of my heart who have already sent in checks.

I just received one today in fact from Texas and I also am taking to heart

the kind criticisms that I'm receiving of my bellowing laughter

hurting your ears and I apologize for that.

I am trying to move my mouth away when I laugh.

I move my mouth away from the microphone when I laugh.

These are knee -jerk reactions obviously.

These are not rehearsed or planned outbursts that I have so it may make

it more difficult.

I leave a lot of this in the hands of my webmaster to muffle those

deafening sounds so I apologize if I am disturbing you with the laughter

and will try to work on that as best as I can.

But we are now returning to our discussion with Dr. Craig Beal and right before the break

a listener in Sharpsburg, Georgia asked about Proverbs 26 verses 4 through

5.

Do not answer a fool according to his folly or you will also be like him.

Answer a fool according or answer a fool as his folly deserves that he not be

wise in his own eyes.

They seem to be contradictory statements but we will have Dr. Beal

exegete that for us and Lou from Sharpsburg, Georgia wants to know can.

You give an example of how you put those Proverbs into

practice?

In practice with my written

science versus faith let me just

say this let me let

me answer by responding with the principles that are

behind the apologetic need to not affirm a fool in their

foolishness but to actually show them their foolishness and their need to repent of their foolishness.

That's sort of the import of the

verses there are not saying it's not.

It's just a clever way of saying don't use the same assumptions

don't

give salvation by showing them that

indeed their premises are false they're trusting in a false object of faith and and their

reasoning.

So let me just say that the apologetics so they they

want us to believe that

becomes reasonable.

We're both looking at the evidence.

We're drawing conclusions from the

evidence

well

that's

not

into

authority or ethics.

We need to show them that they're interpreting it or their assumption they're making is rooted in an ultimate faith

object.

So when somebody says well this isn't it's not right for Christians to criticize this particular type of sin.

Well the question becomes based on what your opinion if we're created by

God he created by God

we can show them how that's the case

according to their assumptions we

need to show

them that

nobody's doing

things and following

and

say according to God's explanation the reality according to God's explanation is

everybody knows God even though they're

without excuse.

Romans

1 talks about that too where they they they know certain things they do are wrong but they still and

then thirdly we need to show them that

unbounded authority so we don't

let them an authority.

We need to

show them that whatever they're proclaiming ultimately by faith

in their own

personal

perspective from knowing like that apart from

revelation.

We need to show

them that that they're limited they don't know

those

things.

Show them

that making their

own understanding the ultimate authority so so those are the kinds of things we need to do.

We don't answer a fool according to their view of reality according to their

assumptions about reality.

Pointing them that it leads to absurd

doesn't exist and we show that that leads to

absurdity.

We can do that arguing is rooted

i care about him he had you know he

could point out hypocrisy.

It's a drop of a hat.

I started using these things very subtly and nicely.

But when i

become a

five -point

colonist you remember that some

people in the love of christ that comes in

and through us we don't need to be in this approach

an indefensible position at

least in

the infinite love of god who would take infinite wrath on himself that they might

have happiness forever.

So in answering a fool according to his following

that thank you lou.

And please give

us your

full mailing address

so we can ship out

to you a free.

Copy of god the reason.

How infinite excellence gives unbreakable faith.

For some reason i'm having a hard time saying infinite excellence back to back those two words.

I don't know why i keep tripping over those words but uh this is compliments of carpenter's

son publishing and it's also compliments of our friend who is our guest dr craig

beal and our friends at cumberland valley bible book service cv bbs .com.

We'll be shipping that out to you at no charge to either you or us at

iron sharpens iron radio.

Thank you very much lou.

Keep listening and spreading the word about iron sharpens iron in sharpsburg georgia and beyond.

We have pastor sterling vanderwerker from shepherd's fellowship in

greensboro north carolina.

And uh pastor vanderwerker has a question on a scale from one to ten with

ten being the highest priority.

How important is it to press the fact that the unbeliever utilizes

faith in his ability to a observe b reason

or c come to a true conclusion.

That's observe reason and come to a true conclusion.

And he says.

This is a great show with several exclamation points.

Welcome back pastor.

I know he asked the question he asked me about the two bible verses and he might have been last time with the box he might have been looking

and uh you know taking all thoughts captive.

But i i gave him a sort of roundabout answer of god in the beginning god but thank you for coming back

on a scale of one to ten i would i would say it's the

encounter.

Now everybody's different and schaefer makes this point and he's very good about this.

He says that we need to treat people as individuals.

And people as individuals have different concerns different personalities different.

Um we need to listen to them from you know to understand where they're coming from and that's

showing them respect.

And schaefer was very very adamant about that.

He says we don't we can't have a cookie cutter approach and i know you're not advocating that.

So so what i would say is sometimes it's a 10 sometimes it's a one.

I remember once i was having a discussion with a phd in biology about all of this stuff and it came down to her

dog.

The greatest argument for god's existence was the loving kindness of her dog.

And you know what a lot of my other comments went right over and relate at

all but but she could see that that dog was no accident.

Sometimes people you know the ultimate option

to the word because nobody's saved by a good argument they're saved by the spirit of god and the word of god.

And so if i don't ever have to apologetic words

so just pointing out the infinite excellence of christ that he would love the unlovable

to make them lovable and that he would suffer infinite wrath to make us infinitely happy and all

of those beauty beautiful glorious things of the gospel.

And i never have to point out the fact that their unbelief is

faith in a

wrong

object and

and all

those other things very gently so i

would say and showing how

we're irrational and unscientific.

It's nice maybe on a scale of one to ten at times to just go to the ten and say well let me just show you that

all of what you're saying is absolutely unreasonable and that you're actually sitting on blind faith especially if there's an

audience and we're going back and forth and we need to at the bedside of

somebody it just it really just depends.

It's a great question but it really depends upon the sensitivity and the caring and the love of the

person who's interacting with the unbeliever and what the unbeliever is is presenting

where they are how tender their heart is put in their

place in a gentle nice way to show that they don't have all the answers

definitive answer on that but it really sometimes it's a one sometimes it's a ten.

Sometimes it's a five.

And if and if you have a follow -up question to that please do that.

And i'll try and answer that as well.

Well thank you very.

Much sterling.

Pastor sterling vanderwerker.

And you are going to be receiving in the mail compliments of carpenter son publishing

a free copy of god the reason how infinite excellence gives unbreakable faith by our guest dr

craig beal and that will be arriving in the mail god willing within a week or so from crumlin valley

bible book service cv bbs .com.

That's cv for crumlin valley bbs for bible book service .com.

And since i've heard very wonderful things about you and shepherd's fellowship

from some of my other listeners i'll give you a plug for your congregation.

The website for shepherd's fellowship of greensboro north carolina is sf

for shepherd's fellowship of f for of g for

greensboro and then.

So why it's so i guess that's an abbreviation for south so .org s

-f -o -f -g -s -o .org.

And that's shepherd's fellowship of greensboro north carolina.

Uh and uh we uh.

Welcome your questions.

Always.

Uh.

Pastor sterling and um.

Hope to hear from you again soon with your questions for our guests.

Keep spreading the word in north carolina and beyond.

Can i interrupt for a sec.

Oh yeah.

Sure.

For pastor sterling um feel.

Free to contact me through the website and if you were on the website before we

just so if you get a scary message just

www .pilgrimsrock .com and that message will go away until we get our ssl certificate straightened out.

But go on there and click on the webinars tab and you'll see we're offering free webinars and i'd like to offer

those to you personally at any time that's convenient to you.

We can just we can just do the webinar.

I'll do it live.

And you can ask questions of me as we go along.

And any of you any of your other listeners chris can do the same.

Just contact me.

I'll schedule those things custom.

Or they can sign up for any of the ones that are there and we get into some of these topics in greater depth with a lot of pretty

slides that they can view and it's and it's and it's live.

So they can ask questions and i hear them and they hear me.

So just thought i'd make that available to you pastor sterling.

And an appreciation for you doing this and.

And for the other listeners as well now that's great.

It's very generous offer.

And that's pilgrims rock .com pilgrims rock .com.

There's no apostrophe obviously uh in the pilgrims just pilgrims rock .com.

And uh let's see.

We have a listener again in slovenia joe in

slovenia who says.

I've been reading recently about gazali's argument for the creation of the universe

and the existence of god from the possibility from the impossibility of an infinite

number of past events prior to today which would have to be true if god did not

exist and creation was eternal.

Please asks dr biel to address this proof.

What does he think about this argument as an apologetic with naturalistic atheists.

Thank you for sharpening us today.

Oh you are welcome.

Sometimes people argue about well it's just presuppositions it's not evidence and and and

that sort of thing.

Well that's that's two things.

Evidentialists we deal with evidence

comprehensively because comprehensive evidence

of god you know

can be unhelpful

but need to do in using those types of arguments we need to understand

that they will any unbeliever

commitment or ultimate faith presuppositions.

So their presuppositions as van til would say are like a

under cemented to their face.

So whatever argument you bring to an unbeliever if you don't challenge

their assumptions they have about god man reality knowledge truth authority

and ethics.

They're going to interpret every argument through that lens and dismiss it accordingly.

So those arguments are fine if we want to just show that a

thing that we have came from nothing and that's fine.

But they're not good if neutral objective

observers and interpreters of the evidence we're going to

they're somehow going to be swayed by that to come to faith.

It doesn't work that way.

And van til called that the blockhouse method it's

their mind or intellect hasn't been affected by sin and isn't

driven by their

vital science where we show that the kingdom

chance or

time and

chance

a single

protein and

that's nice to know

because

everything

somehow came from a single cell in a swamp

now that single cell more sophisticated than a space shuttle.

It's nice to tell the unbeliever that it's your simple cell isn't so simple.

And it requires a whole lot of things that all of science and the money of the universe has yet to duplicate.

And so thinking that that's going to convince them.

Or that by combining a bunch of those types of arguments without dealing with their ultimate faith commitment and assumptions

it's going to be effective.

No i have to dig deeper to their ultimate faith.

Well thank you joe.

In slovenia.

And thank you also for uh giving us an american address where your daughter lives in

georgia so that cumberland valley bible book service will be spending a lot less money

shipping this free copy of god.

The reason out to you that's god.

The reason how infinite excellence gives unbreakable faith by dr craig beale.

And once again we thank carpenter sun publishing dr beale and cumberland valley bible book

service for making this gift to you possible.

And once again a cumberland valley bible book service's website is cv bbs .com.

So look for a package with that return address on the envelope or package i should say.

And we look forward to hearing from you again uh with more questions from slovenia.

And thanks for listening and keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio in

slovenia and beyond.

And uh we are going to go.

We are going to our final break right now.

If you have any questions please email us at.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the good old usa.

And before we go to the break i'm going to ask you a question from ronald in eastern suffolk

county long island new york who says when all is said and done dr

beale isn't a miracle of god required for any lost person to

even believe any of what you're saying.

After all if we are calvinists we believe in the ordo salutis where

the regeneration of a dead lost sinner is required before he can even see the

truth.

Yet even at any rate believe it.

So we will have you answer that question when we return from the break.

And anybody else who'd like to join us our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with dr craig beale.

Tired of box store christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert.

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship.

And how about the preaching.

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from long island.

Well there's good news wedding river baptist church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship

experience featuring the systematic exposition of god's word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631

-929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

I'm james white of alpha omega ministries.

The new american standard bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

Used by pastors scholars and everyday readers the nasb is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable bible

translation.

The nasb offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the nasb is known for.

The nasb is available in many editions like a topical reference bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy the new topical reference bible includes contemporary topics

relevant to today's issues from compacted giant print bibles.

Find an nasb that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com.

Whichever edition you choose trust discover and enjoy the nasb for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com.

World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find world to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage world can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of world magazine on -scene reporting from world radio

and the fully shareable content of world digital.

Simply visit wmg .org forward slash iron sharpens

to get your world trial and dr sproles book all free no obligation with no credit card

required.

Visit world news group at wmg .org forward

slash iron.

Sharpens today

every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions

coffee shops and local hangouts.

Long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the

lifelong journey of following christ.

Long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement

to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer.

Donate pray or all of the above.

For details call long island youth for

christ at 631 -385 -8333 that's 631 -385 -8333 or

visit liyfc .org that's

liyfc .org.

Hi.

I'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to.

The pastor's study every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m eastern time on

wlie radio www

.wlie540am .com we bring biblically faithful

pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively useful and i assure you never dull join us this saturday at 12 noon

eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study.

Because everyone.

Needs a pastor.

One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day so i'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

use batterydepot .com for all your battery needs.

At batterydepot .com they're changing the status quo.

They're flipping the script they're sticking it to the man.

In other words they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new dependable and affordable.

Ordering from batterydepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out -of -the -box batteries

you can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones cell phones radios pcs

laptops tablets baby monitors hearing aids smoke detectors credit card

readers digital cameras electronic cigarettes gps's mp3 players

watches or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries.

Go to batterydepot .com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768 that's 866 -403

-3768 or go to batterydepot .com.

That's batterydepot .com.

Welcome back.

This is chris arnzen.

If you just tuned us in our guest for the full two hours with about 25 minutes to go.

Has been and will continue to be dr craig biel we are discussing his book god the reason how infinite

excellence gives unbreakable faith.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

If you have a question for dr biel and if you do i would advise sending it in very quickly because we're

running out of time.

That's chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Before the break dr biel uh ronald in eastern suffolk county long island asked the question

that if the oro salutis is true that we calvinists believe that faith that

regeneration precedes faith.

In order for us to even see the truth let alone believe in.

It doesn't a isn't a miracle required for belief in anything that.

We're discussing today well born

again apart from very often

reasoning with unbelievers.

In fact act 7 the most pointed example of a presuppositional

sermon or presuppositional argument we have in scripture where he comes to a bunch of athenians who don't

know the old testament don't know the new testament and in three sentences points out their

sin that it's unreasonable to to think that you can make god when he made

you so knowledge that god exists even as he makes the sermon.

He's presuming that they know better and it's very helpful for a believer to understand that.

Then he goes on to say he doesn't need to be served because he's the one who made everything he needs nothing.

And then he goes on to call them to repent because christ has has risen from the dead

making the point that god is the one who determined where we're born etc etc.

So so we're called to reason with unbelievers and god can use that because we're bringing

scriptural truth we're bringing the implications of scriptural truth to them.

And it will be the word of god and the spirit of god that saves them.

But that doesn't preclude reasoning and showing them their

need of repentance by pointing out their sin that their sin is ultimately faith in the wrong object.

You know it's idolatry of faith in their own opinion and their own perspective.

So and god uses conviction about their sin when we point out the fact that god

created everything therefore we depend on him for everything and we owe him everything and we're not giving him everything.

So it's a good segue into the gospel.

So yes god is the only one who saves and it's his

power.

But he uses his

believer than it is the unbeliever.

We get an unbeliever into scripture the better.

But the more we are

untenable

and unjustified the quicker and the more confidently we'll be

able to quote scripture and read them scripture with them from scripture because we

know of its power and we know that all other worldviews are false and we don't have to get intimidated and

to the message of the spirit.

So so yes review.

I know a lot of reformed folks

say that it's

a flashball.

Yes in fact

ronald.

Follows up with a an email.

Uh excellent answer.

I was not trying to disagree with you that god uses means and i know that he does

use means such as evangelism to open the eyes of his elect but

i was just referring to an apologetic answer as to why some people who may articulately hear

the truth even voluminously and yet still reject it

it is because at its root a miracle of.

Regeneration is required for their eyes and ears to be opened.

Right.

And that's a great point.

It's on the mind of a lot of people so i'm glad you brought it up.

By the way ronald you're receiving.

The final copy that we have to give away today of god the reason how infinite excellence

gives unbreakable faith.

By our guest dr craig beale.

Compliments of carpenter's carpenter's son.

Publishing and compliments of cumberland valley bible book service.

We'll be shipping that out to you.

Cv bbs .com will be on the shipping label cv for cumberland valley bbs for biblebookservice

.com.

So keep your eye open for that.

Anybody else who wishes to purchase the book who couldn't win one today or perhaps even those who won one

will like to purchase additional copies.

And i'm pretty certain that many of you will want to do that after you begin reading this book.

Uh go to pilgrimsrock .com pilgrimsrock .com and you could order

more copies of god the reason how infinite excellence gives unbreakable faith

and uh the uh next two questions i want to ask you

actually i think has a lot to do with the essence of the reformed faith.

Uh i'll ask these two in a combined fashion.

We depend on god for everything and we owe god everything.

That that seems to be the nut.

In a nutshell a summary of reform theology.

If you if you could expound on that those are chapters in your book.

Yeah.

And it's a shame that

in christ

we bring

we're not

justified by new life

but we have it

remnants of the old man that keeps

perfect

this side of

glory

with a new

direction.

We area that we don't

always are godliness or the fear of the lord

and so so we can.

Every believer should understand what you said but what we articulate in the book that we are dependent upon god for

everything including knowledge truth and authority and apart from him we have nothing.

And we

oh i

positionally

we're still growing in that and we think about things and how we understand

god and ourselves as an ethical issue as well.

The reformed view of that is is a more maturing

of the nature of reality as a created being before god and everybody needs to come the

way to be

justified by by

the.

Imputation of christ's perfect righteousness.

Now i know that our arminian friends or non -calvinist

christian brothers and sisters uh in their hearts

i think one of the compelling the most compelling factors that uh

causes them to oppose the sovereignty of god over all things is

that they want to defend the character of god.

And if on the one side of the coin we owe god

for all things uh on the other side of the coin they believe

would force us to view god as also being guilty of

all sin uh in in its heart because they would say that if you believe god is in control

of everything that he's the author of evil and therefore uh he is

not all good.

So they're in their efforts to to defend his character as being all good.

They see calvinism is.

Contradicting

this how

do you respond to that

argument.

The root of their concern is they're

trying to protect god's justice

responsibility for sin.

Implement them on that and say that that is.

That's a compromise on any attribute of god.

But then moving on from there we need to show gently and kind you know we can't

compromise on any aspect of god.

And then we go to acts two or acts four and god for gained the acts of the people who crucified christ and

and these sorts of things.

And show that given the fact that god created us and we can only know what he's revealed to us

and given the fact that he's infinite and we're finite there's always going to be this gap infinite gap

between our understanding and god's going to be

inevitable.

So the real difference sometimes between and i

think in discussing this with them it's important to at least

first make the case that there has to be mystery given who we are.

And then show that we may differ as to where we place the mystery and then

move from there to show that.

But whatever we do in dealing with this we want to make sure that we don't

and that that salvation isn't what god has done and

self can never be meritorious to him

in the bond

of love of christ.

They're

happy

to agree that

they

don't want to take any credit for their salvation

sounding as if we've made god the author of evil or responsible for

sin.

And we need to show them that indeed he can never be that.

And some super lapsarians don't help in this regard because they sometimes make it sound like god is the author of sin.

Well god's sovereignty is a holy sovereignty anything and everything he does must does must be whole.

He doesn't do it indirectly or for any

sort of purpose he's not dependent upon that which is most contrary to his character to accomplish

his will.

And we need to emphasize that.

And we have a good we have a long discussion about that and god the reason but at the same time we need to point out to them

that we can't compromise his sovereignty either.

And we certainly can't compromise his.

Grace.

Yeah if you have.

If you have evil things occurring at the hands of evil men and

you believe at the same time that god is a powerful god then you

have to either believe that he is in control of evil men and everything they do

or you believe that the will of satan has victory over the the will of god at times in this

on this earth.

In fact you might even say more often on this earth.

So that obviously is not an option.

So uh obviously god even though he's not the author of evil he is in control of

all things that occur.

And what.

One thing that i've never heard.

A logical answer to to the non -calvinist who makes the report

that god has nothing to do with evil occurrences on this earth.

Uh.

And they will blame calvinists for for teaching that god is the author of evil.

I asked them to explain uh 2nd samuel 12 where nathan

the prophet is confronting david for his sin and he

is informing david of what is going to be happening as a

means of chastisement for his sin by committing adultery with sheba and having

her husband uriah murdered on the battlefield.

Uh nathan's god himself speaking through nathan says to david.

Thus says the lord behold i will raise up evil against you

from your own household.

I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion.

And he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.

Indeed you did it secretly.

But i will do this thing before all israel and under the uh.

So therefore you have some very uh powerful uh statements

there revealing that god is certainly involved in evil occurrences that are being

used of him to chastise david.

Okay.

What i would say.

Is that on

the

one hand every one of god's

attributes the

beauty of his attributes are his

holiness.

Edwards

make

very careful because i take great believers take very very great comfort in the thing that

very the very heart of god's view.

Somehow god is response

done.

He's

taking people whose

inclinations are already inclined against god and he's channeling them like he channels the hearts of kings to

do his judgment.

Yes so.

But that's not making there

with

this.

John gill is yelling

at you from

heaven because god's

just

calamity and judgment against sin and all that.

I can freehand with that because everybody's corrupt and sinful.

And that's why we have calamity.

People use and say you know god i'm the author of calamity.

Well that's not moral evil.

He can't be the author of moral evil.

He can be the author of natural evil which is whoever we

deal with this.

But whatever we do with that impasse evil doesn't reign supreme.

God is sovereign and anything god does directly or indirectly either one.

And we have a tendency to

have this

tendency.

We got to

tie those

things together.

But god is not responsible for moral evil.

He can't be it's so antithetical to his character that

he can't justly obviously obviously god for.

Ordained the crucifixion of his own son at the hands of wicked

men but at the same time he said it would have been better for judas if he had never been born.

He was obviously holding judas responsible for his betrayal but at the same time judas

was used to bring about the messianic prophecy that was required for any man to enter

into heaven being the death of his son on the.

Cross.

Yes.

In fact we have a couple chapters where we deal with acts two and acts four and and make the case that indeed

god for ordains the free un.

So that's another issue.

Can people make free.

Do they choose without an external constraint or or somebody that makes them do it.

Or are they responsible for it because their own inclination desired to do

it.

Own inclination.

Yes.

And we have to we have to go.

Now we're out of time.

It would definitely want you back.

Please stay on the line so i could reschedule another interview with you.

And i want to just make sure our listeners have your website.

It's pilgrimsrock .com.

Pilgrimsrock .com.

Thank you so much for being our guest today.

Dr beal.

Please stay on the line so we can reschedule you.

I want to thank everybody for listening today and especially those who wrote in questions.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior

than you are a sinner.

Please tune in.

Tomorrow we have dr carl truman on the program and we look forward to hearing from you and your questions.

God bless.