TPW #7 | Misusing Reformed Theologians Past and Present in Defense of John Pipers False Gospel

The Warning Against Heresy and the Need for Warfare for the Truth

Paul warns that evil men and imposters will grow worse and worse, deceiving one another and being deceived. The reason Paul told Timothy that was because he needed to be ready to spend the balance of his life in uninterrupted warfare for the truth.

The most dangerous people alive today are always, always, always.

Ordained ministers.

They're the most dangerous people in the world, especially the ones that people think are Christians, who will sell you theological poison to the damnation of your soul. Folks, I just want to warn you about something.

Every heretic in the entire history of the church, without exception, has taught their heresy in the name of being faithful to Scripture. What happened when Jesus was nailed to the cross? That was the day of wrath.

That was the day of judgment. That is the day of final salvation, brought back in time and applied to us once for all at the moment of our effectual calling, when we repent and believe in our unity to Christ.

Federal Vision, Piper, and the Problem of Misused Quotations

Welcome to the Protestant Witness. This is your host, Pastor Patrick Hines, and today I want to go over misuses of quotations from reformers, reformed theologians, and other folks, even contemporary reformed theologians, with regard to the Piper Controversy.

I was in seminary. I was actually in a seminary on campus in Jackson, Mississippi, at Reformed Theological Seminary in 2007 and 2008. As some of you, some of the listeners here, may recall, that was when the Federal Vision Controversy was being addressed by the General Assembly of the PCA, and of course, they basically condemned the Federal Vision stuff, and you know, Guy Waters was one of my professors, and I remember asking him about how that went.

At the time, I wasn't in the PCA. I was in the BPC. I asked him, you know, how that went on the floor of Presbytery. He said to me, nobody loved the charge. We like pitched it out there, and you know, you could hear crickets chirping.

It was like, nobody loved the charge, so you know, the committee report passed and etc. One of the things that I was very involved with, though, was this whole Federal Vision Controversy. One of the main reasons for that was, a lot of these Federal Vision authors, Doug Wilson, Peter Lightheart, etc., were big favorites of a local classical Christian school there in Cincinnati, Ohio, near the church where I pastored, and so I was introduced to all this Federal Vision stuff back then, so I read a lot of their stuff, and I thought that it was terrible.

I thought it was without a question a false gospel that these men were promoting, and still promote to this day, and I noticed that in all the online chatter that I have with people, what you would get is not exegesis of key scripture passages.

What you would get is, well, if you say these guys are heretics, and you're going to have to say all these other guys are, and they would give you quotations from good Reformed theologians, and I remember thinking, wow.

But,.

Thankfully, I have a big library, and I eventually got a hold of the Puritan hard drive a while back, and so I can find almost anything in its original context, and plus the internet, you know, enables you to find, usually, what you can't find in other places.

So, I'm used to the quote game. The issue, well, if you're gonna say that these guys are false teachers, then you're gonna have to say all these other ones are, too. With regard to the Piper situation, that's happened already.

People are doing that on the internet, writing articles. Anyway, some guy, very condescendingly, told me, you need to ponder the possibility that you're slandering someone. You need to ponder that. Just something to ponder.

Just something to ponder.

And, I.

Have been very clear that I'm not misrepresenting John Piper. I've played everything the guy said. I've quoted him at length. I'll let him speak in his own words. So, anyway, I get a, in a private message, I get this long string of quotations, and quickly scanned through it, and it was, it was the same quotations that the Federal Vision guys use.

Some of the same guy, the same quotes from Calvin's Institutes, the same quote from Hermann Bavink, the same quote from Turretin, and there are a few others thrown in here, too. But, took a few minutes here this morning to look these up, and I just wanted to share that every single one of these is out of context.

Every one of them. Every one of these is wrong. And so, I'd like to go through this. Here's the quotation I was given. The first quotation is from Hermann Bavink, from Reform Dogmatics. Quote, "...the Reformed had no objection to calling good works necessary to salvation as the means and ways to obtain eternal salvation.".

Now, there's ellipsis through here. "...not a meritorious, but a preparatory and dispositional cause.". Well, you know, I pulled up my copy of Volume 4 of Reform Dogmatics by Bavink. Let's, um, let's get a little context here, and let's see what the ellipses left out here.

Listen closely to this. Quote, "...Lutherans tried to avoid both extremes and conducted a long-lasting vehement debate on the appropriateness or inappropriateness of the proposition good works are necessary to salvation.

Some defended good works, but others considered them detrimental and went so far as to say good works are harmful to and pernicious for salvation. The formula of Concord," which is one of the Lutheran confessions, "...condemned both positions and stated only that good works are signs of eternal salvation in as much as it is God's will to express command that believers should do good works, which the Spirit works in their hearts, and which God accepts and rewards for Christ's sake in this life and the life to come.

The Reformed were more moderate in their judgment, regarded the Lutheran debate as a dispute over words, and could not see the big difference between the rejected formula," quote, "...good works are necessary to salvation," quote, or end quote, "...and another that some Lutherans had approved," quote, "...it is impossible to be saved without good works," end quote.

So you see what you see what the discussion's about here? The Reformed were saying, look, it's the statements good works are necessary to salvation and it is impossible to be saved without good works is really just a quibble, and I agree with them.

I think that they were right. The quote continues, "...they have no objection to calling good works necessary to salvation provided," this is the Reformed, okay, "...provided they did not imply a necessity of causality or merit or.

Effectiveness,.

But implied a necessity of presence of the means and ways to obtain eternal salvation.". You know, those are the things that were that were left out of the ellipses, and I think these are those are important things.

The Reformed had no objection to calling good works necessary to salvation, and then the quotation I was given here, dot, dot, dot, here's what the dot, dot, dot leaves out,. "...provided this did not imply a necessity of causality or merit or effectiveness.".

"...but only implied the necessity of presence.". You see the point? I would agree with that completely, completely, okay? So, first quote, bad. Bad misuse of Bovink's words there. It really doesn't give you any context of what they're even talking about here.

They were talking about the Reformed response to a Lutheran debate over these things, and the Reformed, we're not, we're not ashamed, nor am I, of saying good works are necessary to salvation. The key is necessary in what way?

As.

Fruits,.

Okay? Not as causes in any way shape or form. You get into heaven by faith alone. Yes, and all who have true faith will do good works. Do those good works, are we saved through those good works? No. Are those good works in any way the cause of the confirmation of our faith, and therefore we're saved through them?

No. No. And Bovink would agree with that completely. Look, they had no objection to calling good works necessary to salvation.

My.

Interlocutor here puts dot, dot, dot. Here's what he left out. "...provided this does not imply a necessity of causality or merit or effectiveness.". Okay, I think that, okay, we beat that dead horse.

Sorry. Okay, next quotation here is from John Calvin, and I pulled this up in my copy of Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion. If Adobe will open up here, there we go. Okay, and let me go back to the original quote.

Here's the quote I was given. This is from Institutes, Book 3, chapter 18 .1, and this guy is a little snarky in the way he's interacted with me, and I haven't, I have not appreciated that at all. He said, he gives the quotation here and describes it as some obscure guy named John Calvin.

But as we're gonna see here, this guy is completely misusing Calvin's words. Listen closely. Here's the quote I was given. "...but though it is by mercy alone that God admits his people to life, yet as he leads them into possession of it by the course of works, that he may complete his work in them in the order which he has destined.

It is not strange that they are said to be crowned according to their works. Since by these, doubtless, they are preparing, they are prepared for receiving the crown of immortality.".

Okay,.

Let's look at that in its.

Context.

Here, actually, there's two Calvin quotes here. Yeah, here we go. Okay, let's look at a little bit before and after what was just quoted there. This is from the same point. "...the statement that God will render to every man according to his works," Romans 2, 6, "...is explained with little difficulty, for the expression indicates an order of sequence rather than the cause.".

Did you catch that?

The expression, God will render to every man according to his works, indicates an order of sequence rather than the cause. Rather than the cause. Okay. Calvin continues, this obscure guy in Calvin,. "...but beyond any doubt, it is by these stages of his mercy that the Lord completes our salvation.

When he calls those chosen to himself, those called, he justifies those justified, he glorifies. That is to say, he receives his own into life by his mercy alone. Yet, since he leads them into possession of it through the race of good works, in order to fulfill his own work in them according to the order that he has laid down, it is no wonder if they are said to be crowned according to their own works, by which they are doubtless prepared to receive the crown of immortality.

But they are fitly said to work out their own salvation," Philippians 2, 12, "...for the reason that while devoting themselves to good works, they meditate upon eternal life. This corresponds to another passage in which they are enjoined to work for the food that does not perish," John 6, 27, "...while by believing in Christ, they receive life for themselves, and yet the clause is immediately added, which the Son of Man will give to you," John 6, 27.

From this, it appears that the word to work is not opposed to grace, but refers to endeavor. Accordingly, it does not follow that believers are themselves the authors of their own salvation, or.

That salvation.

Stems from their own works. Well, Calvin, don't you understand that salvation is a broader term than just justification? See, when he's addressing that concept, even in these contexts like this, in the Institutes, he still doesn't make that kind of an error.

Why? Because he's too sharp for that. He's too biblical in his thinking to do those kinds of things. So, there you have a total misuse of Calvin. Calvin doesn't say anything even remotely close. And by the way, at the front of all these quotations, this guy says to me, I guess these guys are false teachers, too.

And nothing Calvin said in the quote he gave, nor in the larger one I just gave with more context, does he even come close to saying that we are finally saved through our works, as Piper says. Not even close.

So, 0 for 2 so far. All right, here's another Calvin quote, and as I said, these are the same quotes that were used by the Federal Vision. But here's the quote I was given from Institutes, Book 3, Chapter 15 .4, quote, here's the quote I was given, And he, you know, very snarky.

And he, you know, very snarky.

Another one by this Calvin guy, he says, trying to be as condescending and ugly as he can be. Here's the broader quotation. Let's see if Calvin would agree with the way this quotation is being used. Here's a broader quotation.

Just a little bit more added on to it. I added just one more sentence onto the end of it. We'll see. See if Calvin would agree that Piper's right here. Listen, here's what Calvin says. Now, that's where the quote ended, that this guy gave me.

Listen to the next sentence. 0 for 3. 0 for 3. Okay, next quotation. John Davinance, Treatise on Justification. Here's what the quotation I was given says. Besides, we ought to regard eternal life as our goal and end.

But this goal is never reached except in the way of good works. For that broad way of licentiousness and impiety leads straight to hell, as Christ himself assures us in Matthew 7, 13 -14, it being understood then that we are seeking the kingdom of heaven, we must necessarily enter upon the way which leads to the kingdom of heaven, the way of good works.

Okay, I have here my copy of Joel Beeky's book, Meet the Puritans, and I looked up the chapter on Davinance. Just listen to this, just a little bit about the guy.

Quote,.

Regrettably, Davinance held to hypothetical universalism, a mild form of universal redemption attested to not only by James Usher and Richard Baxter, Baxter is a whole other anomaly here, but also by Davinance, a dissertation on the death of Christ, which he finished shortly after leaving Dordrecht.

He was a British delegate to the Synod of Dort. This treatise presents the view that Davinance defended at the Synod. Ultimately, Davinance and the English delegates won Synod over to the view that the debate on redemption must be worked out in terms of both sufficiency and efficiency, i .e. that Christ's death was sufficient in terms of its intrinsic worth to save a thousand worlds, but was efficient or efficacious only for the elect.

Davinance's views went further, however, claiming that the father and the son had a conditional intention to save all, though that condition was not absolutely efficacious.

Yikes.

Just thought I'd bring that out. I have the sneaking suspicion that the guy that sent me these quotations has never read any of these works. Well, maybe a couple of them. I have a feeling that these were pulled from a quote book or a quote page on the internet or something like that.

I just do not get the impression that these individuals were actually read in their own contexts and things like that. Let's see. I found John Davinance's treatise on justification and found the exact quotation here.

If it will pull up here. Here's what Davinance says. I'd like you to hear just a little bit more. It's actually, I actually agree wholeheartedly with what he says here. And what he says is not even remotely close to what Piper says.

Not even remotely close. Here's Davinance's words, quote,. Besides, we ought to regard eternal life as our goal and end. But this goal is never reached except in the way of good works. For that broad way of licentiousness and impiety leads straight to hell as Christ himself assures us, it being understood then that we are seeking the kingdom of heaven, we must necessarily enter upon the way which leads to the kingdom of heaven the way of good works.

And that's where the quotation I was given ends, but let's let's keep reading. Moreover, every Christian in framing his life ought to have respect not only to the glory of God and his own salvation, but to the advantage of his neighbor also.

Now we help our neighbors by our good works. On the contrary, we injure and afflict them by evil and ungodly works. In order therefore to attain this object, we must necessarily perform good works and avoid evil ones.

According to that saying of the Apostle in Romans 3 10, charity work is no ill to his neighbor. In 15 -2, let every one of you please his neighbor for his good to his edification. In short, it behooves the pious and prudent Christian to aim at having in himself a testimony of the true faith and of his effectual calling and thus a seal of the eternal salvation prepared for him.

According to that admonition of St. Peter, giving diligence to make your calling and election sure. Etc, etc. Okay, so what is Davenant talking about here? Making your call and election sure that those who have eternal life will walk in the way of good works.

Is there anything in here about being finally saved through works? No, nothing. Not even close. Not even close. So let's see how many quotes is that now? One, two, three, four. Oh, for four. Oh, for four.

All right. Now we go on to Thomas Goodwin. I pulled up volume 7 of his works here and and here's the quotation that I was given in the message here. Here's Thomas Goodwin. Here's the quote I was given.

Neither is it anywhere said that God will judge men according to their faith only. I guess Goodwin's denying justification by faith alone. Of course not. Listen carefully to him. Nor will it be a sufficient plea of the latter day to say, Lord, thou knows I believe and I cast myself at thy grace.

God will say I am to judge thee so as to everyone. Every one shall be able to judge my sentence righteous together with me. Therefore show me thy faith by thy works. Let me know them, know by them that thou fearest me.

For as I did judge Abraham and gave thereupon a testimony of him, so I must proceed towards thee. And this God will do to the end that all the sons of Israel, yea, the whole world may know that he justified one that had true faith indeed.

Is that even remotely close to what Piper says? No, not even close. What's he saying? He's actually, that's a beautiful exposition of what James chapter 2 is talking about. No one's profession of faith is justified by saying you have faith.

By the profession. It's only justified by works. It can't be justified by anything other than that. Okay, let's keep reading here. He goes on in the very next sentence that's not quoted. So then Paul judging according to works and James his justification by works are all one and are alike consistent with Paul's justification by faith alone.

For in the same epistle where he argues so strongly for justification by faith without works, also declares he would judge every man according to his works. He doth so to the good, verse 7, to them who by patient continuance and well-doing seek for glory honor and immortality eternal life as well as to the bad he pronounced with the contrary judgment, Romans 2 8 and 9.

But unto them that are contentious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness indignation and wrath tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that doth evil of the Jew first and also of the Gentile.

Now then to proceed in the exposition of James thou seest how faith wrought with Abraham's works which imports first that his faith was a working faith which in which is the principal point that James drives at and secondly that his works did proceed out of faith and so were accepted.

Thus in Hebrews 11 17 by faith Abraham offered up Isaac says the Apostle there and by works faith was made perfect. That it is declared and manifested to be true and perfect faith. Thus we are said to bless God when we show his blessedness.

Okay, so faith is shown to be true faith which alone gets us into heaven by works. A man's profession of faith is not justified by his saying he has faith. It's only justified by his actions. And that's exactly what Goodwin does an excellent job pointing out.

That's a very very useful exposition of those things. Okay, now we're on to Michael Horton. And by the way, I personally contacted him and he was he is not happy with the way that his words are being used just FYI.

I'm not gonna get it going any more of it than that but he's not happy with the way that his words are being used with this whole Piper thing. Okay, first and foremost here. These are very short quotations from Horton.

There's two of them in a row here. He says quote, this is the quote I was given. Too often we use justification and salvation interchangeably. So the suggestion that we are justified without any condition other than faith leads some to conclude that it is it is the only condition of salvation end quote.

One sentence. Well, I guess I guess Horton would say initial justifications by faith alone and then final salvation is by works. Is that what he would say? Here listen to the other quotation that was given.

This is the quotation from Horton. Quote, the New Testament lays before us a vast array of conditions for final salvation. Not only initial repentance and faith but perseverance in both. Demonstrated in love toward God and neighbor are part of that holiness without which no one shall see the Lord.

Such holiness is not simply definitive. That is it belongs not only to our justification which is an imputed rather than imparted righteousness, but to our sanctification that inner renewal by the Spirit end quote.

I guess I guess Horton's Roman Catholic. He thinks that we're saved by our inner renewal. I got maybe that must be what he means. Well, I pulled up my Kindle version of introduction to Covenant theology Which is not responding right now.

That's not cool. I really need it to where we go. Okay Hello, I need to navigate here up. It's not responding. There we go. All right. Okay, listen closely here There's a thing the New Testament lays before us a vast array of conditions for final salvation.

Not only initial repentance and faith but perseverance in both and that quote I just gave you but let's see what Horton goes on to say.

Here.

Jesus made it amply clear that the sheep will be distinguished from the goats in the last day by marks of their profession. It is important to remember However that the sheep are apparently unaware of their having fed the hungry clothed the naked and cared for the poor and those in prison.

While the goats insisted that they have Holiness which is defined by love of God and neighbor is usually something that is seen by others rather than by us. Nevertheless, it is the indispensable condition of our glorification.

No one will be seated in the heavenly banquet who has not begun. However imperfectly a new obedience. That is exactly true. Now notice Horton is not saying we are saved through that new obedience or by that new obedience.

Okay, he's not saying that and therefore there's no agreement between this and what Piper saying. Horton continues. There are those who have once been enlightened Baptized here. This is his interpretation of Hebrews 6 4 and 5 who have tasted the heavenly gift the Lord's Supper.

Have shared in the Holy Spirit have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come who nevertheless fall away. Does this not seriously compromise the good news of an unconditional promise that we have labored to distinguish from a covenant of works?

This is a terribly important question. Especially since there seems to be so much confusion in our day over how to take these sober warnings in Scripture. The first order of business is to re-examine careful distinctions.

Exactly. Listen to how he does this quote. The first distinction is between justification on the one hand and sanctification and glorification on the other. Notice notice Horton puts justification on one hand and then Sanctification and glorification in other words the subjective elements of our salvation on the other.

He continues too often. We use justification and salvation interchangeably. So the suggestion that we are justified without any condition other than faith. Leads some to conclude that it is the only condition of salvation however salvation is understood broadly in Scripture to encompass the whole work of God in restoring his fallen creation.

As We have seen justification can only be through faith in Christ not by works true. There are other conditions that precede faith in Christ. Some readers can recall their conversions. Someone gave them a Bible another person brought them to church and once there others extended fellowship.

Then one day the hearing of God's Word produced its intended effect by the Spirit. Details very enormously of course. But there are all conditions without which humanly speaking one would not have come to know the Savior now.

You see the way he's using the word conditions here. He's not talking about conditions that are the legal grounds of our salvation or acceptance into heaven. He's talking about other things that came before our conversion the other means by which God brought us to faith in Christ.

That's all. Listen to how he continues. We must ordinarily hear the law and come under its convicting power turning from self to Christ. Our hearts must be changed so that where we once resisted the Word of God We now accept it yet.

None of these things belongs to either the grounds or means of justification in the words of the Westminster Confession. Believers are justified not for anything wrought in them or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone.

To say that certain things have to happen before we are justified is not to say that any of those things are instruments in our justification. Conditions are not instruments. Exactly very well stated now.

Listen, it gets even better. He gets even more clear. Those who are justified are being sanctified and will one day be glorified. Therefore it is impossible to say that one can be justified and yet still remain dead in trespasses and sins.

Exactly.

The natural person not the believer Rejects the things of the Spirit of God for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1st Corinthians 2 14.

Everyone who is buried with Christ and the likeness of his death is raised with him and the likeness of his resurrection from in 6 4 5. Returning to spiritual blindness and death is an impossibility for those who are in Christ.

It is in this light that we can say that only those who are being sanctified Will be glorified. That inward holiness that God requires is not to be confused with justification. But it also cannot be separated from it.

Those who are justified will enter heaven with new hearts that delight in God's law and no one who despises God's law will enter at sacred precincts. Man, that is Outstanding notice what he's very careful here to say he is not saying those who enter heaven do so by their new hearts and Because they don't despise God's law.

He's not saying that. But he is saying what I would say and what the Bible says and what their whole reformed tradition says. It's impossible for a person whose heart has not been renewed to enter heaven.

Because God always does that and the heart of every person he justifies that doesn't mean that that's the means or the grounds Upon which we get into heaven. Horton continues. This is the last thing I want to read from him here.

Second we must distinguish between conditions within a law covenant and conditions within a promise covenant. The law could command but it could give but it could not give what it required. That was not its purpose.

Galatians 3 21 made that passage says it was added because of transgressions. It could only declare those who fulfilled it to be righteous before God. To speak of conditionality and a law covenant then is to follow the formula do this and you will live.

Fail to do it and you will surely die here. The law promises blessing upon fulfillment of the covenants stipulations. Exactly, that's why the the whole by covenantal structure thing is so important that you see not just the covenant of grace.

Did you also need a covenant of works to in your in the way that you organize the biblical data? Last paragraph. However in a covenant of promise things are radically different to be sure the requirements of the law themselves do not change.

But the basis for acceptance does in Jeremiah 31 God One-sidedly pledges to replace our stony hearts with hearts of flesh and to write his law on them. So that we will delight in his commandments. But this itself is the result of his having forgiven us of all our sins by grace alone.

Everything that God requires in this covenant is also given by God. It is not simply the case that he promises to forgive our sins and then leaves us to sort out our own stony hearts and rebellious Ways.

The salvation that he promises and provides is total leaving nothing for us to achieve through our own strength not only justification, but Regeneration sanctification and everything requisite for our being glorified has been included in this unconditional promise.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Very very very well stated now that I'd love to just kind of keep reading here. Horton's one of my favorite authors when it comes to this kind of stuff. I think he's outstanding but to say that Horton's teaching initial justification by by faith alone and then final salvation by works.

Or.

Through the fruits of our faith. Not even close. He is not even close to what Piper's saying. Mark Jones quote. I firmly believe with all my heart that we are justified as we will ever be when we first believe we cannot lose our Justification.

When Christ returns we will enter heaven based purely on the imputed righteousness of Christ. Amen. Along the way to heaven we will do good works that God has prepared for us in advance to do. Amen. That's Ephesians 2 10.

These works are not optional. Exactly, right put to death the deeds of the body and you will live. Romans 8 13. But they do not have the merit to justify us before God. They are simply the path we walk on to eternal life.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly and that is not what John Piper is saying. Richard Phillips we must persevere in our faith that we want to be saved and perseverance is not possible without holiness. If we do not strive against sin, we will be overcome and will not finish the race.

That's an excellent statement and I wholeheartedly endorse it and it has nothing to do with what Piper says at all. Okay, the next quote Francis Turretin Institutes of Atlantic theology topic 11 question 23.

Hence arises the necessity of good works to glory not of merit. But it means no one can be glorified in heaven who has not been sanctified on earth by the pursuit of holiness and obedience to the law.

Okay, this is. Let's see, where's my copy of Turretin? Here's my copy of this volume. This is volume 2 of Institutes of Atlantic theology. Now, what is this passage talking about that's being quoted here?

This passage is talking about. It's one of the numerous points and answers to the question the abrogation of the moral law. That's what the 23rd question is about. Whether the moral law is abrogated entirely under the New Testament or whether in a certain respect it still pertains to Christians.

The former we deny the latter we affirm against the antinomians. So what's this whole section addressing? The fact that the moral law is still binding upon Christians. Think about it. If it wasn't what would be our guide?

As far as how we're supposed to live a godly life now. That's one of the things he's pointing out here. That's why he says hence. Arises the necessity of good works to glory not of merit but of means no one can be glorified in heaven who has not been Sanctified on earth by the pursuit of holiness and obedience to the law.

In other words here, let's get the larger quotation here, this is a point number five under question or excuse me point number six.

Excuse me.

Under question the 23rd question here with respect to grace now conferred upon us here. Which demands that obedience as the fruit of that seed? Gratitude for benefits received. You see what he's doing here.

Why do we know the law is still binding upon us? It's the way we show our gratitude to God. It's the way that we express gratitude and thankfulness to him for his grace by which he has saved us. Also, if the moral law was not binding upon us as Christians.

Why would why would we need a Savior. The whole reason we need a Savior is because the law can't be set aside. He continues and the mark at which it aims as is evident in election and redemption and calling and justification and regeneration.

With respect to the glory which we expect to which the obedience due to the law stands related as a means to the end. Without which we cannot attain to it. The way to the goal the seed to the harvest and the first fruits to the mass.

Yay. As the principal part of happiness. Hence arises the necessity of good works to glory not of merit but of means. No one can be glorified in heaven who has not been sanctified on earth by the pursuit of holiness and obedience to the law.

That is exactly true and that is not what Piper's saying. Now I have a feeling this fella like I said did not has not read this. Um, I would like to challenge folks to something solely to have Gloria and publishers.

I think that's who did it. Is it? I'm sorry. It's Presbyterian and Reform. Excuse me this right here. You want to see what Francis Turiston believed about how you can get to heaven and not hell? This is the book you need to read now my copy of it.

I've got all dog-eared and little tabs everywhere. You know why I did that years ago because I was tired of listening to people quote him and Make it sound like he was a federal vision guy. And so I just wanted to read this quote here From Turistin and you tell me what you think about how he thinks we get into heaven how we get past the judgment of God.