Chuck's Discuss with Godless Grandma

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00:05

But what I have a more serious problem with are the young earthers that want us to deny what we know from science and as a result

00:15

They want us to ignore scientists when they tell us things like take a vaccine for the pandemic

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The science supported not getting the vaccine over six minutes later. We heard her say this

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Now you don't want to even talk so, you know It's because you've brought up a topic that I was not prepared for If I had known that this was going to be the topic

00:39

I would have brought facts and figures with me But I did not know that this topic would come up and so I did not bring any facts and figures with me and I'm not

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Prepared to defend that position, but you brought these topics up. I didn't well, okay, you're right

00:52

I did We are live apologetics live here to answer your most challenging questions you have about God in the

01:15

Bible No matter how hard the question is no matter how difficult to mow how challenging you think it is here at apologetics live

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We can answer any question that you have about God and the Bible And if you doubt that my challenge to you then is to go to apologetics live .com

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Go to the bottom or near the bottom where you have the stream yard icon It's the duck icon join us ask us your most challenging question

01:41

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01:49

We are glad to be back I am Andrew Rappaport the host president or executive director of striving for eternity ministries and also the

01:56

Christian podcast community of which this Livestream becomes a podcast and we get to air it there tonight.

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We're gonna be talking about a well Chuck. He's a regular here With us he comes in often and watches

02:09

But Chuck Carpenter was on the godless grandma YouTube channel If you remember back some time ago we had godless grandma on here and you actually got to hear her there in the beginning where She was telling me how she wasn't prepared to bring up a topic that She brought up.

02:26

That's right. That was how the conversation ended. I don't think it went well for her. She Got to a point where she just completely shut down we'll discuss that a bit tonight

02:36

But I'm going to I want to bring Chuck in Chuck. Welcome to apologetics live.

02:43

Hey, thank you Andrew I'm very honored to be here tonight So you you heard did you know about godless grandma before she came on this show or was that the first you heard about the first?

02:53

Time I heard of her right and which is sort of surprising because I'm I'm pretty tuned in to you know

02:58

The atheists that are out there So, yeah, I was kind of surprised Well, I and I'm gonna remove the banner so we everyone could see your

03:05

Twitter. Your Twitter handle is atheist nightmares I do have a lot of fun with it

03:13

But you know over the past like year or two I've seen that you know the content coming from the atheists has dwindled quite a bit and I kind of think that quite a few of them are gonna

03:23

I've seen a couple of them saying that they're they're they're leaving Twitter, you know after the election so Yeah, it's it's sad that you know

03:32

After a 2020 election, they kicked us off at Twitter People set up their a replacement

03:38

Twitter and that got shut down Just because of telling the truth because I mean the things that they got the conspiracy theories

03:49

That they supposedly did Turns out there wasn't conspiracy It actually came out to be true and then they they said oh

03:59

And as I'm referring to parlay parlay was they were like all parlay was used to to create an insurrection on January 6th

04:06

And yet most of the people were communicating through Facebook and Twitter But those groups were shut down on Facebook and Twitter.

04:14

So yeah, it's just a walk down memory lane But yeah, it's it's amazing how they just can't you know,

04:21

I just wish one thing Chuck seriously For all of the the celebrities who promised us they would leave this country if if Trump got elected

04:31

Leave, please leave Stop making this promise every year and not do it.

04:39

I mean every year a Republican wins They don't leave in fact violation of the

04:45

Ninth Commandment Do you know? Let me I'm gonna test you I give you a pop quiz here

04:51

Chuck, do you know how many Republicans? since Barry Goldwater Were called

04:58

Hitler How many Republicans ran for president? That were referred to Hitler since Barry Goldwater.

05:06

Oh all of them Nope, all except George H Bush.

05:17

Oh Yeah, they were everyone so when they say Trump is Hitler what else is new do you have anything else oh

05:27

But it is a refreshing day for those of us who like freedom True democracy.

05:35

We're not look we're not kicking anyone off or even encouraging anyone to be kicked off at Twitter, you know

05:42

We're not we're not We're not asking for censorship But they're upset with you know with You know musk because he actually cared about free speech enough to put his money where his mouth is.

05:57

I Mean, yeah, and and you know, we as Christians, it seems that we begin of being given a four -year reprieve

06:05

Freedom of speech to go out and take the gospel to a lost and dying world. That's the way

06:10

I see it Hmm now I'm trying to figure this one Andy from Down Under Andrew said sorry,

06:16

I didn't mean to say Andy Andrew says Trump was labeled Hitler by a German born woman

06:22

Who is once my doctor? I'm curious who that is Andrew But I do find it interesting that you know one of the people that has been supportive of calling everyone

06:33

Hitler and who funded a lot of that is a Jewish born

06:39

Nazi Yeah, his name is George Soros George Soros is was

06:45

Jewish As far as the religion, but his family were supporters and members of the

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Nazi Party So one of the few Jewish Survivors of Germany there.

07:01

So just a tad bit of history and that's who affects most of our elections Okay, so he just says her name was

07:09

Karen Cochran so I don't know who that is but So All right.

07:17

So let's get into Godless grandma, I I did grab just you know When drew and I are here and we take some video that we're gonna clip

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We we try to do like a 20 -minute video and we never get through it So I figure

07:31

I got it like it is five less than five and a half minutes. So I think we can make it through I have planned

07:40

But I first wanted to ask you so, how did it come about that? You got on to Kelly's program?

07:48

and And how did that how did that come about? Okay, so if you'll remember

07:53

I was a guest on your talk with her You know came in and got to ask her a couple of questions and then after the after that show

08:02

I I Found her contact info and I contact her and I said, hey, you know

08:07

I'm the one that was on there as well. And you know, would you like me to come on and You know have a discussion and she asked well, what do you want to talk about?

08:16

And I said, well I'm really interested in learning why Why people reject Christianity become atheists?

08:23

She goes yeah Well, I can do that and and so so then we set it up for a few weeks later but I would come on and Yeah, that's how it happened that's the first time

08:33

I've ever done anything like that like an online Verbal dialogue slash informal debate.

08:40

So I was a little rough. I'm sure and I've come back and you know watched it a couple of times and thinking well

08:48

I could have answered that better and and but overall I think I stepped away feeling, you know,

08:53

I did pretty good No matter how many times you do it you're gonna walk away going

08:58

I could have done this better I could have done that better. I mean For folks who don't know it's especially if it's a formal debate.

09:05

It's hard it's not easy to to because we have formal debate you have a fixed amount of time and Especially when you have like, okay, you got two minutes to answer a question and They ask you this really wide open -ended question

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You know, I mean folks try that sometimes just try to do a two -minute answer I I have if you go back.

09:29

I haven't been recording them recently, but I have my Andrew rap reports daily rap report and It was to every it's fixed two minutes.

09:39

But with the intro outro I have like a minute 47 seconds something like that and yet I'm going through topics and answering apologetic questions or giving the history of we did one series went through all the kings of Or all the judges

09:58

I should say I think we did Or and we did the Kings and we did go, you know, we went through Every like giving an overview of every book of the

10:07

Bible in a minute 47 seconds that is really hard to do to be that concise and When you're when you're being asked it live

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I mean when I'm doing that the reason I stopped doing that one and not my my weekly rap report is because that two minute five day a week

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Which is only ten minutes of air time Takes me longer to prepare for than a one -hour weekly show where I don't have to have everything scripted right because a minute and 47 seconds is like You gotta have it so scripted so you know exactly what you're gonna say and then you got her if you get it wrong

10:48

It's like well, let's redo it. It's only a minute 47 seconds And and so that's really hard to do so when you're in a debate and you're asked a question and you don't know what the question is gonna be and It's usually some very open -ended question two minutes.

11:01

Go ahead answer That's not easy. So I say that to say when you when you're like,

11:07

I could have done better Don't feel bad that I mean all of us have that when we listen to how we we engage with things like this

11:14

I mean, I if I go back and listen to when Kelly was on here. I would there's a whole lot of things

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I'd probably well, I know for a fact I would answer differently I just don't remember what they would be now, but That's the reality is so yeah, that's that's expected.

11:31

So let's talk about How that went before we get into how you know want to talk about some of when she was on our show

11:40

You did something different on there You went on to her program Really to interview her to ask her about her

11:48

You know conversion D conversion story what story why did you want to focus there? I wanted to do that because it it plays in to the the way that I approach apologetics with unbelievers, especially atheists

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Because I know what they're gonna do eventually is criticize scripture and My approach is is

12:15

I'm sure you remember my favorite Martian There's two antenna would come up. And so my two antenna are coming up.

12:22

I'm listening for two topics, right? Either there's they're gonna be talking about logical fallacies in the Bible, but they're gonna talk about morality

12:28

Right, and and once they do that I'm gonna attack that and and and demolish their worldview because they have no grounding for either of those two topics to be universal or authoritative

12:43

Right and and so and I was to be honest I was kind of surprised that she Said yeah,

12:48

I can do that and she probably didn't know what I was gonna do with that But it played perfectly into what

12:53

I wanted to do Yeah, yeah, we didn't get to it when she was on and you and I talked about this when she came on to onto this program we

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Did not get to where I wanted to get to I asked her share a little bit about herself How she claimed she was a

13:10

Christian and her deconversion What I wanted to get to there is part of what she has in her public reference to herself her bio is that she's the parent of a trans child and one of the questions

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I really wanted to ask is you know, did she Denounce her faith before or after her child came out trans.

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I I'm curious genuinely curious How much that? Influenced her decisions to reject

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Christianity You know whether it was you out of a love for her child that that that her, you know wanting to Encourage or I'm trying to think of a good word, but but encourage her child and and Trying to think of what the right word would be

14:06

I want to say saddest morning or supporting but yeah, I mean

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To even I don't know justify that's not really the right word. But yeah, you know what

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I'm saying? It's like to support support her child Yeah, it's a great question because I also want to know, you know, where is her husband?

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Is he in the picture or has he passed away or I don't know. I wanted to ask where he was whether he was it professed to be a believer or not still like and if he's not in the picture when did you know, is it he walked out or Did she walk out on him?

14:41

Like there's there's a lot of questions there that I'd be curious of But we never got to get there and we really

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I mean the purpose of it was she was criticizing latent flowers She thinks the gotcha for Christianity is that somehow

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Christianity can't answer God's You know sovereignty with human responsibility and We never really got there because as I I tried to explain it she actually just kind of distracted and I tried twice or three times to get back to the the main thing to answer and she she

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Just went in a different direction each time and I don't know if it's purposeful. I don't want to I don't want to You know assign a motive

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You know, but that would be something I you know, I and folks I did invite her I did let her know although I will admit

15:37

I let her know today. So it was last minute. That was my fault I've just had a really really busy few weeks and I forgot this was coming up in enough time to notify her

15:48

But I did notify her that we're doing this and that maybe she'll she'll end up listening and responding

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But she's always welcome as anyone anyone is always welcome to come in and and talk about anything on this show

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So she's always welcome to come in and we can we could discuss it So you know,

16:07

I think though that I Genuinely felt I never got to answering the main thing, but I think the issue of God's sovereignty human responsibility

16:19

She sees it as a gotcha because she thinks it's a mutually exclusive thing like there's got to be only one or the other

16:25

Yeah false dichotomy Yeah and and so her argument it seems to be as I heard her on the the show where she's criticizing

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Leighton is you know as Leighton is against Calvinism She's pointing out the the fallacies that Leighton's arguing because you know

16:41

You're you're denying that goddess says he's sovereign but then her argument is well man is is sovereign essentially man is is

16:51

You know the there is no God because of free will and and yet She hasn't really thought that through and I think because When you think about what she argues, it's it's really as God sovereign are we sovereign?

17:08

Well, of course she denies the faith. She thinks she's sovereign Right because that was a big part of her testimony that yeah,

17:15

I found her to be To be a bit less sophisticated of an atheist then and most of them that I've run across Of course,

17:25

I didn't know much about her, you know before I Had my interaction with her and she said she was kind of slippery

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You know, she hadn't thought much about the the law of non -contradiction and and you know

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She kept you know in my in my talk with her you know there were some things that she had said she hadn't thought about and And so that made actually made it a little bit more difficult for me.

17:45

Yeah, I I will admit I Heard about her because I had

17:52

Someone who sent a video with Layton flowers Her responding and they said you you really should react to this video and instead of reacting to the video

18:00

I just figured I'll reach out to her and have her on Why react to a video when you could talk to the source?

18:07

So that's what I what I look to do. I knew that she was part of the atheist and Christian book club and a

18:19

Friend of mine bill who's the the atheist founder of that? there's an atheist and Christian founder if you go back in past episodes of Apologize live actually the week.

18:28

I think it was a week or two before godless grandma was on bill was on and Bill spoke very highly of her.

18:36

She's very educated. She is an attorney You know, he really he really spoke well of her so I was actually like you expecting much more

18:49

Intelligent and better arguments I Was actually kind of surprised as an attorney now granted

18:56

She's trained as an attorney, but does contracts so there's a difference People think of an attorney and they think of them going into court and arguing cases and that is different than the attorney who is writing contracts because when you're when you're working on a contract it is like we were just talking earlier about debating and The debates well when you go into court, that's more of like the debate you have you you have to be quick You got to think real time.

19:24

You've got to respond to things and so When he told me she was an attorney that I was expecting someone like in a courtroom

19:33

She's quick on her feet. She's gonna be ready for argument. She's gonna recognize Fallacies she's gonna you know, call me out if I say something wrong

19:42

That's what I was expecting Instead I saw someone who

19:48

Quoted a lot of sources that she didn't seem to actually engage with well, like I mean she kept bringing up Bart Ehrman and It was interesting because I've actually studied

20:01

Bart Ehrman I've read a lot of his books, you know I I do textual criticism. I look at this stuff

20:09

She doesn't do that. And and what she does is every time she's cornered She would just say, you know that she's not an expert on it

20:17

It was a way out for her. We'll get to a clip on that later, but You know, she just she says, you know

20:27

Well, the this person says this person says so she's she's not an expert on it

20:33

But what she'll do is talk as if she is Until challenged now,

20:38

I I did find it refreshing I mean she was I think honest like when she doesn't know something she doesn't play games

20:44

She says it now she caught herself in the clip. We played in the beginning Where I'm like, but but Kelly you brought up the kovat and she's like I didn't know you're right

20:54

I did. Yeah So she caught herself Yeah, yeah, that is very commendable.

21:01

I mean I appreciated that I was I was surprised how our show ended but yeah But we'll get to that more toward the top of the hour.

21:09

So so let's so how do you think? Your discussion with her went. What do you think?

21:16

she What do you think she presented? Well, and what do you think that she presented poorly?

21:23

Let's see, so first how did it go I think it pretty went pretty well because because my my objective is number one to To To sort of attack the the other person's worldview and it's and their authority right and then to try to get to the law and gospel and so I think

21:45

I did a pretty good job of demolishing the stronghold of her of her atheism and you know

21:52

I kept saying that the the logical conclusion of your atheism is that you and I are nothing more than flesh bags of chemicals reacting

21:59

Stimuli, well, I don't believe that I'm like, well, it doesn't matter what you say You believe that's the logical conclusion and what she's doing is she's suppressing the truth and unrighteousness

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She wants to have her cake and then eat it too, right? So I in my opinion,

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I think I did a pretty good job at that But you know, what did she do? Well, her probably her strongest suit was

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Attacking the sovereignty of God I would think And it and her coming up with the topic of Talking about when she was studying history and she was saying that history doesn't confirm the

22:37

Bible concerning the flood and then Civilizations coming back a hundred years or so later and rebuilding.

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She's saying that you know, none of the modern history that we know of Teaches that and I wasn't prepared well enough for that and if I were to do that today

22:54

I would say well, first of all, we have the testimony of Scripture, right? And and so that's you're gonna have to disprove

23:02

Scripture first But secondly, we also have all the all the various worldwide flood stories from all the different cultures that you know

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Yeah, they're varying in what they say, but they're all coalesced around the topic of a worldwide flood

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And so I think the worldwide flood is outside of Scripture very well attested to Yeah, so so let's dig into that a bit.

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So folks can understand why you do what you do and and how you do it Why do you attack their worldview?

23:32

Why that approach? Because so folks understand how you do apologetics, right?

23:38

Yeah. So yeah, I'm working on a system that Like call simplified apologetics or easy apologetics because a lot of times the topic of apologetics for When I say like the layman

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Christian or everyday Christian, I don't want to say that there's super Christians out there But there are Christians out there that maybe just simply don't have the time to study apologetics and that topic can be

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Overwhelming when you're looking at it, you know creation science philosophy the history

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You know all that can just be overwhelming so I'm looking for a way to simplify all this for the for the

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Christian who maybe wants to have one conversation with an unbeliever and then

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Know understand or hope that they've they've done what they've been called to do and then hand it off to a more experienced

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Christian for further discussion Right. And so yeah,

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I do want to demolish their stronghold and we see here 2nd Corinthians 10 4 through 5 the weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world on the contrary

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They have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every Pretension that sets itself against the knowledge of God, right?

24:54

And so that's the first thing I want to do and especially when it comes to Atheists, they are like monkeys trying to live some submerged into the swamp waters of materialism

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And eventually they do have to come up to breathe air to breathe God's air and whenever they appeal to logic

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Or they appeal to morality. They're breathing God's air. And what I'm gonna do is when they poke their head out of the water

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I'm gonna put my hand on their head and push them back down into it and challenge their their grounding for either of those for morality or logic to be universal unchanging and authoritative and so that's what

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I'm gonna do first I'm gonna attack their their their worldview and its authority and secondly

25:38

I'm I want to get I want to put the fear of God in them. That's something we don't hear about Hardly enough these days within the

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Christian circles, especially when it comes to evangelism It's it's almost a taboo topic, but I can read a bunch of verses here about in the fear of the

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Lord's the beginning of knowledge and beginning wisdom and our chief in is the fear of God and But we don't hear it and when we see what happens out in the world outside of our church walls

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I can harken back to the the Olympic opening ceremonies and you know The blasphemy that they did that these people do not fear

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God and and why is this I put the onus squarely on the church and I like to quote your good friend

26:21

Matt slick is because We are we have been presenting the world with a blonde -haired blue -eyed

26:28

Caucasian surfer Jesus wearing a women's night robe Tapping on the door of a person's heart asking permission to come in right and that is not the

26:36

Jesus Scripture And so they do not fear God. So yes Secondly, I want to put the fear of God in them by talking about sin judgment righteousness and taking them through the moral law

26:47

Yeah, I mean that's thing. I love about precept is that it's simple. You don't have to know a lot

26:52

You just know scripture. So you have it. We have a challenge here. I've been trying to keep some questions going

26:59

But there's a challenge here from Someone mighty Sarlacc.

27:04

I'm not sure what that is referring to. I'm sure it's something pop culture that I don't get but They say why attack someone else's worldview, how about defending your own worldview?

27:16

Right because we understand a person's worldview has a hold on them and If their worldview is not based on the 66 books of the

27:26

Old and New Testament scriptures That worldview is going to result in logical absurdity and or evil and it is going to result in that person

27:35

If they die in their sins are going to go to hell And so yeah, I'm definitely for defending my worldview as well

27:41

And so when you're having a discussion it is a back -and -forth, but I'm gonna start out attacking the world view

27:48

And I would answer it this way. Um It's not so much.

27:53

It's not that our worldview needs to be defended because they already know it's true

28:00

They're the one coming up with a worldview that They want to demand we have to start with the fact that God doesn't exist and then prove he does exist

28:10

But to do that To to argue for anything to make an argument

28:17

Requires immaterial things like an ability to reason laws of logic knowledge truth

28:24

Morality these things can't exist without God. So what they the reality is they want to argue for an absurdity

28:32

They want us to start from their position and argue for something.

28:37

They already know to be true It has to be true. Otherwise, they're their reasoning makes no sense period so it's an issue where you know the

28:50

Defending of our of our faith our worldview. It's not that we have to defend it.

28:56

It's it's what they already know And so are you talking about the world view our worldview that God exists or specifically

29:04

Well the Christian worldview Well, I would say they're both in the same mean if the

29:09

Christian worldview is, you know, the God exist the God of the Bible Everyone knows according

29:15

Romans 1 the God of the Bible not the Catholic God not the Mormon God not the Jehovah Witness God Not the

29:21

Muslim God It's the God of the Bible the one that actually exists that they're suppressing an unrighteousness

29:29

Yeah, I'm with you I'm But I'm sort of a little bit different and so in studying the way of the master living waters you learn that that a person has a conscience they have an internal sense of right and wrong and But our conscience our heart but can become seared which means it's hard on the outside But it's still tender on the inside and using the moral law

29:53

What you're doing is you're penetrating that and and making that conscience come alive So I take that philosophy and and apply it also

30:02

I'm not trying to prove God exists, but I'm that you know They're suppressing the truth and unrighteousness.

30:08

And so that truth has sort of become seared as well. And so Yeah, I'm a presuppositionalist.

30:15

I'm not a hundred percent I've been following your series on the different methods of apologetics. And and so I would say

30:21

I'm mostly Presupp but I'm okay with some of the evidential stuff because I think I'm not trying to prove

30:27

God exists I'm trying to awaken that internal knowledge that they know that God exists that they've been suppressing

30:33

Yeah, that cumulative one was kind of interesting because it just kind of accepts all of them calculus man says

30:40

It's it's at both end to show the inconsistency of the unbiblical worldview while pointing back to the biblical one

30:47

And he also pointed out that the name has something to do with Star Wars. So there you go I was right.

30:53

So So the mighty Surlac says no It's from Return of the

31:00

Jedi Is that a Star Wars reference? I guess that's pop culture from a long time ago.

31:06

So, okay But he did say this He said yes, it's absolutely needs to be defended.

31:14

Otherwise, it's just an assertion without justification Now hold that because his next thing he said was this

31:22

Why don't you hold to your presuppositions that the Bible is true so that it that doesn't apply to us atheists?

31:31

Let's go back to what he said just before that Yes, it is. Absolutely needs to be defended.

31:37

Otherwise, it's just an assertion without justification and Then after that he told us that he doesn't he basically we have to prove our point because it doesn't apply to Him as an atheist

31:51

Well, I'd be very simple mighty sir, let's relax and if you come in here I'd be happy to to discuss it with you, but it'd be real simple if you want to argue there is no

32:01

God I want you to argue not using any immaterial things like truth knowledge laws of logic

32:08

Morality or your ability to reason and if you could do that, I'd be impressed

32:13

But once you make an argument, you're no longer in your worldview because you are not a bag of chemical reactions

32:21

So you're you don't even you can't live in your worldview. It's it's the absurdity and And then you want us to have to justify something that Has to be the fact

32:36

Why would we have to justify an axiom? God's existence is required for you to have an ability to reason and And I think this is what

32:48

Chuck you did on on Godless grandma show was to show that she you were putting her in a position where she had to try to argue from her worldview and What really what

33:02

I saw you do is kind of pinpoint her down to that She wasn't so clear in her thinking of her own worldview let alone to address ours

33:11

Yeah, and and my favorite actually my favorite part of that whole interview was I was asking her

33:16

Well, what are you and she ended up saying? I don't know what I am yeah, and that that plays into you know, when

33:23

I'm asked when I'm asked like how How do I prove that the Bible is true? I'm not trying to prove the

33:29

Bible is true it's just an opening salvo to open up, you know get someone thinking I'll say that any religion or worldview not based on the 66 books of the

33:38

Old and New Testament results in logical absurdity and or evil and just as we saw in Sarlacc here

33:43

He's he's logically he's being logically absurd. He he he can't see it

33:49

Yeah, so I think When when when Kelly was on here,

33:55

I Think she was being honest when she said, I don't know

34:01

I don't know but when I watched your interview with her because you were actually interviewing her. I Almost wonder and and I'm not saying this is the case because it'd be judging her motives, you know

34:12

So, I don't know for sure, but it seemed like She was using the I don't know to get out of answering things

34:20

It seemed that way it You know, it could be wrong And mighty sir lacks if I'd love for you to come in so we could actually dialogue

34:29

It'd be a lot easier, but he says that's begging the question when you don't have to justify something that has to be a fact

34:36

It's called an axiom You could go look up that word an axiom an axiom is something you can't prove

34:44

Because it is a fact but if you really believe this I'm just gonna go back to what you first said and say why don't you have to prove your worldview of atheism?

34:54

Because my guess is he's gonna go. I don't have to prove atheism because it's a lack of belief That's begging the question

35:02

Prove you lack the belief because a belief is immaterial and needs an immaterial source

35:09

So you need to prove that immaterial things can exist without a

35:16

God Would be kind of hard to do because you got to show chemical reactions can produce the immaterial so So he's saying that I didn't beg the question, which is a logical fallacy

35:31

I agree that begging the question is a logical fallacy but You know, come on in and we'll see whether you're begging the question whether you are in fact

35:40

Arguing that you don't have to prove your worldview Only I'm gonna ask him. I'm gonna ask him is is begging the question universally

35:50

Wrong authoritative is it universally authoritatively wrong? And if so, how do you back that up? So he's saying

35:57

I don't have to prove mine, but I'm not making the claim. It's created Hmm Well, I guess my question is why

36:06

I prefer that you come on in go to apologize live .com Join us and we could discuss it be a lot easier discussion because when you're saying that you're not claiming it's created

36:15

What's created the universe? Because if you're gonna claim it's not created

36:21

What do you what are you claiming? Are you claiming that the universe eternally existed?

36:27

It never had a beginning because the first law of thermodynamics disproves that It proves that matter had a beginning if you're gonna argue that the universe created itself

36:40

Well that violates the second law of logic the law of non -contradiction Because it couldn't it have to first exist to be able to create itself

36:50

So it can't not exist and exist at the same time So you're only left with one option sir or ma 'am,

36:57

I don't know The only option you're left with is someone or something created it

37:03

If the you think there's another argument come on in and point it out show us

37:08

But why would I have to prove the only thing that makes logical sense?

37:16

Why don't you prove that it wasn't created? Oh That's right, because you say you don't have to prove your position

37:23

Because you can't I bet Yes, see what I'm gonna Stick my my teeth into like a pitbull is that he's appealing to the laws of logic.

37:34

And and so when he's appealing to The begging the question fallacy

37:40

He's assuming that if someone is begging the question when they make an argument, they are automatically

37:47

Every time without question judges being wrong on that particular matter now I'm gonna ask him by what ultimate authority that would he declare that he has no grounding for that whatsoever

37:57

And this is the logical absurdity that atheism results in And that's that's what they end up doing right?

38:06

And this is the thing folks what you're seeing even with this mighty

38:12

Sir lax if I'm pronouncing that right What you see the atheist the professing atheist wants to do is to get us to To argue from their worldview from their position

38:26

They do not want to ever step into our worldview to attack it

38:33

They attack it from their position and And godless grandma did that she she's arguing

38:40

For things that we wouldn't hold to and then saying that we have to accept it, right and That's not the but what did

38:50

I do with her on the show? What I do with every professing atheist that says they used to be a Christian. I Asked her to step into The Christian worldview that she said she believed

39:02

To defend what this the Christian worldview says that when someone like herself goes out from among us

39:09

This is first John 219 They went out from among us because they were not of us or some translation say never of us

39:18

But they went out of us to show that they were not never of us So the fact that she denies

39:26

Christ is not the proof that she once believed It's the proof.

39:31

She never believed and You know when these guys want to argue for logic

39:39

I think what you end up seeing is you are you're stuck when you argue for logic to have to defend where logic came from Because most often what you hear is logic and you know

39:53

Chuck you've heard this I'm sure plenty of times because I've I've watched the way you argue

39:58

So I know you've you've had this because I've had it right that people will say well logic is the product of the human mind and so When I hear that folks what

40:09

I want to do with that argument is say, okay Can I can I take them to a point where we can argue for the reality of the laws of logic?

40:19

outside of a human mind So what do I do? I Asked this question

40:25

Before man existed right because every single person believes there was a time before human beings

40:31

Whether you believe it was five days or billions of millions of years, whatever number you want to give it to it

40:38

But we all believe there was a time before the human mind So I'll ask the question and I always go to a simple one for us to understand the second law of logic

40:50

Which is the law of non -contradiction? Let me give it the technical and then I'll explain it

40:57

Technical we would say something cannot be a and not a at the same time in the same manner so in other words

41:05

As an example, I can't have $20 in my wallet and not have $20 in my wallet at the same time

41:13

Now I could have had $20 in my wallet, but I gave it to Chuck Well now it's not the same time, right?

41:19

It was there, but it's not there now and In the same manner would be well,

41:25

I can't tell Chuck I got $20 in my wallet But I'm really talking Monopoly money and he's talking

41:30

US currency, right? So that's the same manner the same way so you can't have something and Not have something in the same manner and the same time

41:43

So I hope that's simple enough to understand. So why do I approach that? Because I will go back and ask before there was a human mind whether it's five days or millions of years

41:54

Could the universe have existed and not existed at the same time in the same manner

42:03

What am I doing I'm removing the human mind from the argument Asking what the law of logic applies at that time

42:14

There's only one of two answers One they say yes Okay, they say it

42:22

Well, they'll either say it. No, it couldn't it couldn't have existed in the same way at the same time In which case it's not the product of a human mind

42:32

You've just you've just exposed that it's not the product of a human mind Now does that mean they're gonna go?

42:39

Oh, you're right. God exists, right? No. No, they'll usually double down And and make other claims like, you know, well, it's just the the reality of the universe

42:51

What makes that a reality? Right. I mean you go the way Chuck is saying and just keep it but by what standard right now

42:59

The more fun one is when they say yes When they say yes

43:05

What they end up doing is arguing for the fact that the universe could have existed and not existed in the same way at the same time

43:14

I've I've had someone that argued for that and And he said well,

43:19

I just don't understand, you know the quantum physics where you can have something that is existing at two places at the same time and The issue there is is it really existing at two places at the same time or is it we don't have enough technology to understand

43:40

How it seems to be in two places What we're talking about in quantum physics you you have these courts that seem to You know in as they they move around it seems like they pop out of existence and pop into existence

43:55

But keep in mind we don't have the technology to dig up deep enough Remember people used to think the atom was the smallest

44:01

But actually they first used to think the cell was the smallest thing that you can have and then we've discovered the atom

44:06

Now we talk about subatomic particles like quantums Well, that's the reality so when they argue for that they argue that you know

44:16

The universe could have existed and not existed at the same time in the same manner. I like to just go you're wrong and Then pause for effect

44:27

Because when you pause they're gonna go no, I'm right I had this with the guy he's like I'm right I said no No, you're wrong

44:33

I'm right. I said no. No, you're wrong and you cannot argue against it He's like I'm right, why can't

44:40

I argue against it I said because you accept contradictions We're both right But if you think

44:45

I have to be wrong and you have to be right You're not arguing from your worldview. You're arguing from mine. You believe in the law of non -contradiction

44:53

But you're saying for the universe that doesn't apply Then you watch their heads spin

45:01

You know because they they don't know how to deal with that Yeah, and and again when they're appealing to the the law of non -contradiction or any other

45:10

Laws of logic they're breathing God's air, right when they claim God's air doesn't exist and the great thing about apologetics there's multiple different ways you can

45:20

Attack a subject or defend a subject for that matter And so what I like to do is I'm talking to an atheist and we're talking about the the laws of logic and they'll come up Oh, well, they're actually

45:31

Descriptive rather than prescriptive or vice versa, but oftentimes they'll say well, it's just a product of the mind and I'll say yeah

45:38

But according to your worldview, the mind is nothing but a skull that of brain chemicals, right?

45:44

And and there's a billion skull vats of brain chemicals out there that have been pre -programmed differently with different DNA And different life experiences different biology and they come up with different answers and and different logic

45:58

How can you how can you possibly say that one? Person's logic is better or right or wrong, you know versus the other, you know, you can't

46:07

I love, you know folks who aren't watching this live if you're listening on the on the

46:14

Podcast or watching it later You you really want to be in here live for the chats because it's always fun

46:19

I I see there's some discussion on the spaghetti monster and Darryl here says Andrew I would like to eat the spaghetti monster

46:27

To to which I see I ended up seeing a response from Melissa saying Stop talking about spaghetti.

46:34

You two are making me hungry Well, I know that Darryl is one of my peeps from our church so he's just having fun

46:44

One comes up says what about this flying spaghetti monster, you know, you know defend that worldview. Well, that's just And Yeah, I can attack that worldview because the spaghetti monster is made out of material made out of spaghetti, right?

46:57

You know, you're all done create itself. So boom roasted yeah, I mean the

47:02

I I read Charles Darwin's origin of the kinds and if you sorry origin of species

47:10

If you actually read that first off folks That book is an insanely boring

47:18

Well a poorly organized book that never actually answers the question it sets out to do

47:26

It's talking about the origin of species but the whole book assumes species exist

47:36

Never gets to the origin why because Darwin knew as Every atheist does that they can't account for where life came from They cannot argue an atheist cannot argue for the existence of life

47:56

They argue for the fact that life it already exists. So they have to start from our worldview.

48:02

That's what finds me. So funny about What was his name mighty stack stalagmite or whatever his name was he he's once us as Christians to defend our worldview, but he doesn't want to have to justify his own and yet his own

48:21

You're holding up book. What do they believe? So? Yeah. Yeah, someone's talking about it. Actually. Yeah arrow puts in it put in the chat

48:27

Andrew rap love your book which book while he said what do they believe so you were holding up the book the copy of my

48:34

Book, what do they believe which I appreciate the plug Folks want to get that what do they believe is a book on the major Western religions?

48:43

It is from their source Author their sources we look at what the the ones we look at is

48:49

Judaism Catholicism Islam Mormonism Jehovah Witness and Christianity and we look at six doctrines.

48:57

What's their authority their view of God specifically Trinity? What's their view of Christ specifically his deity man sinfulness salvation and in times?

49:08

So I'm not trying to disprove them I'm actually trying to give you how to know what they actually believe so you don't misrepresent them

49:14

Which is always important because as we talk about like even with these atheists, it's important to not misrepresent them

49:22

Even though they constantly misrepresent Well us So I should mention

49:28

I meant I keep forgetting to mention this but folks if you'd like this Especially if you're watching it live Would you mind sharing it out for others to watch share it on social media or maybe text it to folks or email?

49:40

So that others will watch and and maybe get help maybe they're gonna argue with atheists someone who might call themselves a godless grandma and Be proud of that and how would how best to argue with that?

49:52

So let me look at some comments. We got in earlier. So So Melissa asked this question

50:00

Chuck at what point do we stop casting our pearls? Especially with atheists, so she's referring to a

50:08

Bible passage not to cast our pearls before swine At what point Chuck? Do you think we?

50:14

We're doing that Yeah, that is a great question. And so my approach is like when

50:20

I started talking about, you know, what are my goals? I wanted to demolish their worldview and its authority and then put the fear of God in them which would include taking them through the

50:30

Ten Commandments Allah way of the master and then if I take them to the Ten Commandments and I've dialogued with them some and they're still just being obstinate and And and the law hasn't at least doesn't seem to appear to be working on their heart at that point is when

50:45

I back off And I won't but and I won't even say oh, well, you know, you need to hear the gospel You know, it's you know, that's what

50:52

Ray Comfort teaches like, you know We need to hold their feet over the flames of hell for a while So that the gospel can do its work maybe at a later time and I definitely trust in the sovereignty of God that I don't have to You know give the gospel proclamation

51:07

I think that if I've taken the person through the law and and and praying through the Holy Spirit that it's doing its work then to me

51:15

I think that I've been successful and I can stop the Conversation at that point and I've done it several times

51:23

Yeah, and I mean when it comes to Casting your portals for swine. I love to tell a story of a friend of mine because it was just so bizarre

51:32

It was God's providence So we were in Huntington Beach And I'm with a friend of mine we're doing some some witnessing and He just he did something that he's never

51:49

I've never seen him do before he's Generally a kind of guy that likes to answer questions and What was interesting was there was this guy that's was just coming up to him and just kind of kind of in in his face and just being arrogant and rude and and so you know, my friend just looks at him and Is sitting there and goes?

52:18

No gospel for you. I was gonna give you the gospel, but no gospel for you no soup for you and This guy just got up and walked away

52:29

And we get done preaching we're packing up and I just said to him like dude what was with that he goes

52:35

I don't know he goes I just I felt like I was throwing pearls before swine with you so arrogant and I just was like You know,

52:47

I didn't I just didn't feel right letting you know, like I didn't Want to give him the gospel.

52:53

I felt it would be a waste of time And like and literally as he says that the same guy walked up to him totally different demeanor

53:03

And goes, why can't I have the gospel? My buddy's like now you can

53:10

Now you can because God resists the proud gives grace to the humble exactly exactly

53:16

And so, you know that that was the thing, you know Some of you actually may know the name of that guy

53:25

He used to work Chuck. He used to work at Living Waters. His name is Chad Williams. He's a what?

53:31

Oh, yeah, the Navy SEAL. Yeah. Yeah, and so he it was just him and I out that day and So, yeah

53:39

Melissa says to you Chuck. She said Chuck. Thank you, sir. I appreciate you answering my question.

53:45

You're very welcome Melissa so, let's see, so Let's see Jesse said

53:50

Earlier, I wonder what her ultimate authority is to determine What is true or false good or evil and and Jesse that is exactly what

54:00

Chuck was? Kind of pointing out to her over and over again he just was hammering on the authority and the standard that she has and She really didn't have much of an answer

54:14

Yeah, she she was a lot of other atheists do why do I have an ultimate authority well, there's always an ultimate authority

54:21

It's either God or man and this is what we learn in Genesis 3, right? Who's going to be the ultimate authority to determine, you know, if I pick the fruit or not, right?

54:30

And and so that's that's the question and I'm you know, I I do appreciate the by what standard approach

54:39

And and I get it and I understand it in it and it's right I just don't think it cuts deep enough and I think a more fundamental

54:47

Question to ask which is what I kept asking her is by by what ultimate authority because it's the authority that determines the standards

54:53

And so I just take you one step deeper in my approach and and I think it's much more effective

55:01

And so, let's see we have Which one here so Melissa had said referring to Kelly there

55:11

She couldn't really defend her own position and that was true both on when she was on this program and when you were on her program

55:20

She was having trouble defending her position. And then what she would do is just say well, I don't know which you know

55:27

Again, I will I'm gonna assume the best of her and assume that she was not

55:33

Saying it to avoid answering but there there are some people That what they'll do is say

55:41

I don't know to sound like they're they're being honest and conciliatory and You know really trying to answer.

55:51

Well when really what they're trying to do is avoid answering so So Andrew from down under says that she she was an expert in lying

56:05

See now Andrew, I don't know if I would go that far right because I Guess for her to lie.

56:13

She would have to know what she was saying was false At least I think the things that I remember coming up when she was on this show and when

56:21

Chuck was on her show And I've only seen three three interactions

56:26

I've had it was when she was here when I listened to the one where Chuck was on her show and then a friend of mine Eric Hernandez and her did

56:34

Some interactions on the atheists book club and then they both kind of dueled it out on their own

56:40

YouTube channels for a bit But I don't think I don't know if I think she's lying

56:45

I think she may be self -deceived But I don't think she's lying

56:51

I I I want to think and believe that she's trying to be genuine with What she was saying and and she was saying she doesn't know when she doesn't know

57:02

I think she just I really think it's not a matter of her lying as Really what

57:07

Chuck had said? I don't think she's as clear of a thinker as as People think

57:15

It's very easy to be a clear thinker when you're doing a monologue or at least to make people

57:21

Think you're a good a clear thinker But it is very different to be clear thinking

57:28

You really know if someone's clear thinking when they're in a debate when they're in a discussion when they have to defend it and someone's

57:34

Asking them You know No, so so yeah,

57:39

I'll go ahead go ahead Yeah, and in my conversation whether you know something came up and she and she was like are you saying

57:47

I'm lying to you? And I said no you're lying to yourself. Oh Yes Yeah, but I told

57:52

I said this to you and I said yeah But you're self -deceived and you're lying to yourself and and that which goes along with what scripture says about unbelievers

58:00

Yeah Some people were asking about seven day

58:05

Apollo seven seven foot seven day seven foot apologist Dan craft who's one of our speakers here at striving fraternity asking how he was and he said this

58:15

He asked if he's doing okay, and he said yep at a multi -day speaking engagement Teaching the book of James to a group of a dozen young adults now, that's not the part that made me laugh though It was the later comment he had and and he says this

58:33

Andrew Rappaport is your wife still gone or did she cut her hair?

58:40

What he's referring to folks is the fact that I have a beard still That he knows he knows

58:48

My bride and I and knows the agreement we have that. I don't have the agreement

58:53

We have she keeps her long hair long, and I don't have a beard She had been gone for a month to take care of her daughter and grandson and she did come back

59:04

Just so you know she Dan she's back But she is she has not forced me to take to cut the beard yet And she hasn't cut her hair yet So right now

59:15

I'm in a win -win position, but I think Because I think she could even hear me saying this

59:21

But I think that soon either she's getting her hair cut short or I'm losing the beard

59:26

I did say to her hey one you know if you want cut cut your hair short And so I I did give her that that out there, but We we will see

59:39

So Yeah, and so Dan Dan is one of the speakers if you guys haven't heard

59:46

You could go out to Haven't heard Dan's talk on The view of his view of abortion it is something he did we're out in Arizona He it was not something he was comfortable with he did an absolutely great job with that talk

01:00:03

And has opened up a lot of doors for him speaking on that subject more so So Let's see what is it your buddy

01:00:13

Darrell is saying here Your wife is who I mean rap so now

01:00:19

I must have missed an earlier. Oh Here he's saying is she suppressing the truth in her unrighteousness

01:00:28

Well Darrell I will have to ask my bride later if she is suppressing the truth and unrighteousness of Wanting me to shave my beard or not shave my beard.

01:00:36

I don't know which one's the truth there All right, so two more questions that I had start here

01:00:43

Andrew from down under says What is the tool that the atheists used to do science?

01:00:50

and I think really what he's getting at here Chuck Which is right up your alley is by whatever tool they used to do science

01:00:57

No matter what however, they answer that whatever their tool is Chuck. How would you then address that issue?

01:01:04

Well, I would say that that the the science is actually sort of a child of theology and Philosophy, right?

01:01:11

And and so I'd have to be more info what you mean by the tools of science but probably the

01:01:22

Induction, right? The atheists cannot account for saying that the future is going to be like the past because you can't say

01:01:28

Oh, it's always been like this in the past. I've passed Driving down the road. I've passed ten white houses And saying oh the next house is going to be why and it turns out to be blue, right?

01:01:38

they had no grounding for for induction into the scientific And that's exactly where I was expecting to go right?

01:01:46

It's whatever the answer is their tools for science Their tools are grounded in the reality of what

01:01:55

God has set and it's immaterial Yeah, I Mean it because they're gonna argue for something that they can't argue from their own worldview

01:02:03

So like why would we have to defend our worldview when they when they live in it? they they they are totally living in our worldview and Stealing from us stealing from our worldview while they want to deny it

01:02:19

So Calculus man says Andrew their brain and mind but unfortunately

01:02:26

Corrupted by sin in an unbiblical Bias a worldview bias and that's the problem that they have the problem that the atheist has is that they're well

01:02:36

Chuck as you said they deceive themselves Right. Yeah, and in any any worldview that's not based in God's realities is just gonna

01:02:46

So it's just gonna logically be illogical You know for like a putting it a better way and Andrew says they're they're evolving brain

01:02:54

Why should they trust it? Yeah, I mean if it if your brain is still evolving Why would you assume that just because it says something's true today?

01:03:00

It's gonna be true tomorrow Fighting and godless. Granny brought this up with me. Well, how can you trust your brain?

01:03:06

I said well because my mind is not just my brain. My mind is as a part of my soul and the brain is just a conduit into the physical realm and Understanding that you know, there can be issues with the brain that can they can cause

01:03:20

Misthinking but I'm I told her I'm talking about the normative right not when things can go, you know

01:03:25

Go massively wrong like a Phineas Gage incident or something like that. I'm just I'm talking about the normative.

01:03:31

Yeah And when they always want to go for like the extreme like that, it's it's because they're they're struggling grasping

01:03:40

Dan says this just I'll put this out here He says he'll be he's gonna be delivering the presentation on abortion that I referred to at a mission's content conference in admission at missions con

01:03:53

Context in Portland in January. So Dan if you could Shoot the that information to me so that I can promote that when we talk about where we're speaking.

01:04:04

So That would be wonderful so I could let folks know where they can hear you especially that specific talk so Teaching that important lens is a it's pretty brave.

01:04:16

Yeah. Yeah, and I Gotta you know I'll have to try to see whether I can make it out for that because there's there's someone out there in Portland that was

01:04:25

Trying to get me out that way. So maybe I could do both All right, so with that let me let me just give a word from our sponsors because well they help us continuing to do this

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I can't keep forgetting whether it's his parents or her parents It's his parents But they they live with them and they lived in the

01:07:57

RV while the RV was filled with water. So that's toast everything in it toast Everything in their basement toast.

01:08:03

I mean all of it was affected by the water But now that we've we've raised enough money to replace their

01:08:10

HVAC system, but now they're having to deal with mold and the water damage and when we talk about water damage

01:08:17

I don't want to get too graphic But he did explain to me that when there's a hurricane like this and you think of water rushing into your house

01:08:24

You tend to think of clean water maybe you think of the water from the lake, you know as as happened when the hurricane hit by my

01:08:32

My dad's place in florida and people were on the street showing fish that were coming in from From the gulf of mexico into the you know, just swimming on the street

01:08:43

Well what he discovered is and he never thought of is that what's coming in through his house is well the sewage water

01:08:51

And that's now all through his house. So not only did they have to deal with the smell and things like that But they also have to deal with the fact that that is all through their house and so they

01:09:05

Do not have the money Aaron is in his family moved in with his family because they're on a meager income for the purpose of being in full -time ministry and Making that choice meant that he cannot have

01:09:20

Uh, he just doesn't have Much income he has his own 501c3 ministry evermind ministries

01:09:27

That supports him a little Uh, and that's why he moved in with his his family and we brought him in with us to be a speaker

01:09:33

To help him get known so that others will will invite him to speak and and help him

01:09:39

Uh that way but this is something he didn't plan for they don't have insurance. They were hit pretty hard Still hasn't recovered.

01:09:47

And so They are now trying to deal with the mold. His wife has health issues. They can't stay in the house so even though We the hvac got replaced.

01:09:58

They're still struggling with Issues now with the mold so if you can give it would be a great help

01:10:04

I know a lot of people have forgotten about it and the election kind of distracted folks, but we set up a thing at give send go dot com slash sfe

01:10:15

Sfe stands for striving for eternity. So give Send go dot com

01:10:24

Slash sfe to help support them We greatly appreciate anything you could do to help them out

01:10:30

Uh, just remember that is being donated to striving for eternity, which is a 501 c3 organization for one of our own speakers

01:10:39

So that money will be a tax donation In fact, what we're actually doing is we're transferring it to evermind ministries

01:10:47

That will take care of them so That that's how that is is happening. So if you guys could be of help that would be

01:10:55

Marvelous um, so let's let's Chuck anything else that you want to talk about from your time on godless grandma's

01:11:03

Uh show there Uh, let me think. Um Yeah, it was uh for people who've watched it.

01:11:11

That's the first time i've ever done anything like that um, you know going on live and and talking in real time and And uh looking back.

01:11:19

I think there's some things that I could have answered better Uh, but for the most part I think I think it pretty well and and and first and foremost

01:11:27

I'm an evangelist and I would just say, you know, let let's pray for kelly. That's her name

01:11:32

Uh, let's pray for the that the lord would save her Because she wasn't saved before Right.

01:11:39

She was a false convert without a doubt Yeah, because she was she was um, yeah,

01:11:44

I can say that, you know, I took some notes here uh from your um From your interview with her she said that uh

01:11:51

That was something that I could not accept that a loving god would choose For a minimum of two -thirds of the world to be damned to eternity, right?

01:11:59

And so when she says that was a god I could not accept that shows that she was a false convert Right. So a true a true, uh born again

01:12:06

Regenerate christian is going to uh taking god's word for what it is, right? And so and then looking back, uh, there were some of her quotes from her discussion with me.

01:12:17

She said The that when she came to christ, she realized there was something missing in my life There's a lot of times you'll hear this.

01:12:23

Oh, there's a god shaped hole in your heart Um, and then uh, she said when she came to christ, she felt different but our feelings do not dictate

01:12:31

Whether or not we're true christians, uh, because the mormons will say the same exact thing They'll say they have prayed about the book of mormon.

01:12:37

They got a book burning in the bosom, right? And so they had this feeling and so to them That feeling uh is what convinces them that the book of mormon is correct.

01:12:46

So that's false She says that she asked jesus into her heart. That's nowhere in scripture that someone comes to uh to christ

01:12:54

Asking them into their heart. Um Let's see, and then she said, uh at one point she had a stillborn child and that's when she started questioning her faith

01:13:04

You know questioning like, you know, why would god do this? Well, you know at least a mature born again christian is going to understand that yeah you know god's ways are not my ways and that uh, you know, we we we love god for um, you know having the pregnancy and and you know, even though we couldn't um,

01:13:23

You know have the child, you know, we've been blessed with it and and if I recall correctly matt slick, uh had to go

01:13:29

Uh through that with you know, one of his children Uh, one of his children that didn't make it at birth his son

01:13:34

Yeah, his son was born and died and they knew that the son was going to die shortly after yeah

01:13:40

And then then she says, uh something about like that didn't sit well with my idea who god is yes

01:13:46

Right. She's she's committing idolatry there, right because she has her own idea But she should latch on to the bible's idea of who god is and and go with that.

01:13:55

So those are probably my Comments that I would have from that discussion. So yeah, go check it out.

01:14:02

It's on godless grandma's channel. It's uh, I think discussion with theist chuck tx or something like that So let's let's play some clips from when she was on uh this program

01:14:15

And I I created a video if I can find it um, there we are so I just want to play some of this and and we could respond it does look weird because they're you and I are

01:14:28

Uh, i'm on top you're on bottom and they're on the left. You're is the same thing. So we didn't plan it

01:14:35

I did realize that you know, even though I dressed up better than last time So did you so you're wearing a jacket and tie where last time you just had a jacket?

01:14:43

I felt like I should go get dressed up. But So let's let's listen to some clips of this and engage with it

01:14:51

It's the fact of i'm sharing me with you. What I would see is good news You wouldn't

01:14:56

I get it. But the thing is there's a difference between saying This is the the freedom of speech to say this is what the bible says

01:15:07

I'm not telling you you have to believe it. See i'm not forcing you to be a christian And and there's no no christians are trying to legislate to force you to be a christian or go to go to church

01:15:18

Have you seen project 2025? Did you see act blue 2025

01:15:26

Uh, no, I have not okay, there's not much talk about that one. It's complete marxism

01:15:33

But that's that's that doesn't get spoken of So yes, i've seen parts of of what shared about uh, project 2025

01:15:43

Where does that does that legislate that people have to be in church? I I don't know if it does that but Okay, so I want you to see what she did there

01:15:53

Okay and and this is why I want to talk about this is what you see that that she did was

01:16:00

When when she was making an argument that christianity is just so wrong Because of how it does things

01:16:08

Her her ultimate thing that she thought and and this this I think this is because she's kind of in an echo chamber

01:16:14

And so everyone she talks to they they believe the boogeyman of project 2025 so I I didn't get into it in detail, but let me just give you some things every think tank comes up with every four years a list for the republicans and the democrats of a

01:16:32

What they what they think? The new administration or continuing administration should do

01:16:39

Okay They always do that Just as the heritage foundation has done it for every election that they've been doing

01:16:49

There was also a act blue 2025 and had she read that She would realize that that is they want to completely censor christians

01:17:00

Because remember what was the context the context was? Whether christians are forcing her

01:17:06

Through legislation to be a christian Well act blue 2025 Does the reverse?

01:17:14

it argues for Trying to get christianity out of society using legislation

01:17:20

To not allow christians to have a voice on social media But did you notice what she said there at the end when

01:17:28

I said, okay What in act blue is forcing you because she brought it up I said are you know, is there anywhere where it's where christians are?

01:17:37

Legislating christians aren't legislating. We're not trying to force people to go to church or saying You know through legislation you must believe and her response was have you seen project 2025?

01:17:49

Now I want you to notice what I did right I we don't want to just do a projects we want to Explain it so you understand how to do it

01:17:58

Why did I Go to the to the fact that I asked the question

01:18:03

What in project 2025? Is forcing you to be a christian or go to church?

01:18:10

Because that was the that was her response She thought I think she thought just by saying project 2025 i'd be like, oh no, let me cower in fear.

01:18:20

Oh, I have no response But the reality is she revealed she hasn't read it

01:18:27

She doesn't know what's in it And so when I asked her, okay, what she brought it up We're going to see that common theme by the way, she brought it up But she wasn't ready to answer it

01:18:41

Because her answer is well, I I don't know The answer is nothing.

01:18:46

There's absolutely nothing in project 2025, even though I haven't read the whole thing That is arguing that people must go to church

01:18:54

Or that people must believe in jesus christ because if they're a christian organization They don't believe you can legislate belief in christ

01:19:04

Okay um, and so I I just I found it quite interesting because Here what you see is her bring something up and then her

01:19:17

Not knowing the topic that she brought up It's going to be a theme All right

01:19:23

We we heard that in the in the beginning clip for those who who came in later But by the way humble clay said

01:19:29

I I missed the first of of the show. Was she respectful? I think she was respectful when she was on the show

01:19:35

I think that'd be very fair to say until the end you're going to see that in a moment um but I I I want to point out

01:19:44

Since chuck was coming on. I told chuck I wanted to discuss a little bit about the why I did what

01:19:49

I did toward the end let you guys know a little bit of You know what was going on?

01:19:56

So um for folks who didn't know and you there'd be no way you would know because I haven't said it publicly and I doubt she did but before kelly

01:20:06

We before we went Before she we were live before she came in And we had the discussion on the fact that I gave her an opportunity

01:20:17

To stream the live stream on her youtube channel as well Uh, one of the things stream yard lets us do is we could stream it on both at the same time

01:20:27

She said she she didn't know how to do that And it was close to the start of the show. So she said

01:20:32

I I I don't want to do that But would I be able to use this?

01:20:38

Because I need some content for this week and I don't have anything prepared Would I be able to to use it and play it afterwards and to download and I said sure

01:20:48

So she had permission and and the plan was is that she would take it she would um

01:20:54

Use the content put it on her show And I would mark it so that it wouldn't you know, she wouldn't get a strike for it because it was with my permission

01:21:03

And so that was the plan Now she never did that And I think what happened my theory again

01:21:12

Can I say this for sure? No, and folks notice what I do here. I'm not saying what things for absolute that I just don't know um, but I say what

01:21:23

I think and then You know, is it possible? Sure I think what happened was is she realized as that discussion continued that it did not go well for her

01:21:36

And I think that As the the conversation went I think what she was looking to do is play the victim

01:21:45

And she made some attempts and this was the first of them To use project 2025 as if that's the the boogeyman that is forcing her to go to church and be a christian

01:21:56

But I don't get notice. I didn't jump into a whole political thing. Could I could I answer about project 2025?

01:22:03

Yeah, I could There's a lot that that I understand about what it says and I didn't get into it.

01:22:09

I just go back to the because what is it? It's a red herring A red herring is when someone throws something out to distract you from the real issue

01:22:17

So what did I do? I went right back to the first question I asked So always remember to do that when they throw that red herring out

01:22:26

That means they don't want to answer something So stay on it Double down on that jump on that, you know sink your teeth in at that time because that's when when you know

01:22:37

What's happening? Let me bring in we got am bruster backstage now. He's on stage and so now would be a great time to ask the question when

01:22:47

I was mentioning the Crowdfunding we have for aaron calculus man asked

01:22:54

Uh was am bruster able to file a comprehensive claim under his rv

01:23:00

Or parents auto policy for the water damage. So I was gonna say I don't know but now you're here.

01:23:06

So I know Uh, he contacted me in which I put him in contact with you And so we do I I will say this calculus man

01:23:13

We really really appreciate when believers help other believers when you contact me and I can put you right in touch with aaron and you guys could talk and That's that's a wonderful thing

01:23:25

Uh, and and it's and he says he goes fy I have a background in insurance Yeah, he said that in the email.

01:23:30

So aaron was was that helpful to you, you know, was he able to help you with that? Uh, first of all,

01:23:36

I feel extremely underdressed Uh, thank you, sir for uh for putting that normally i'm the one who dresses up, you know in things like this, but Okay, i'll come with full disclosure

01:23:47

I am wearing jeans. Oh, okay. Good good. So am I we have that in common? Yeah um better than when you when you have a suit jacket jacket tie suit and you're wearing shorts because you know

01:23:58

No one can see it. I I could I I could not I will not confirm or deny if I ever have done that Um, yeah, so calculus man, thank you so much or as it is on here dv

01:24:13

Hold on and and and dan seven foot apology because i'm just glad to hear That they're both wearing pants

01:24:21

Amen, why is your mind through there dan? It's because it's dan So my god's great actually down on us, you know that aaron he always looking down he's always looking down on us

01:24:35

It's because he's tall. Yep. Yeah for sure to him I actually had a new respect for him because I had to look at him at an angle that is

01:24:44

Similar to the angle my wife has to look up at me and I had this thought Is this what my wife's neck always feels like?

01:24:53

Um, but to the question, um, but thankfully my dad's car did have comprehensive on it

01:25:00

Uh, so that's good um uh Our cars and my wife's and my we were able to cram our cars all the way up I mean that it was a pretty amazing parking job like just like half an inch from the from the

01:25:15

Garage door we pulled ours up and we still got water in ours. Thankfully our both of our cars still ran

01:25:22

Actually, we we have a lot of issues going on with our cars, but it wasn't because of the flood That has happened

01:25:29

My dad did have comprehensive on it and it's it's hilarious. I mean everyone's just moving so slowly down here

01:25:34

We're we are over a month out from this thing and um Uh, we still have the car sitting in our driveway because it hasn't met all the stuff hasn't gone through yet for us to get

01:25:45

It towed away and it's just it's crazy Now the rv was a very different situation Uh, the rv was one where we really didn't fully intend

01:25:55

To ever drive it We knew a lot of work was going to have to be put into it in order to get it like really road worthy

01:26:02

And so we primarily used it as that extra living space on the side of the house So that was not something that could um

01:26:12

That could help us that that coverage just wasn't there in order, uh to help with that. So I will say though That I just want to say thank you to everyone who has participated in this gives head and go

01:26:24

It is just absolutely overwhelming That some people I know many people. I don't a lot of anonymous givers um, it is

01:26:33

It is humbling and it is just um, it just is so encouraging that god's people rally around other people

01:26:41

Um to try to serve them and help them in their time of need And so I just want to say thank you to everyone who was given and to anyone who's thinking about giving

01:26:49

Um, we at this point we couldn't do it without you Um, there's still a lot still a lot of bills outstanding

01:26:57

So a lot of things that need to be done with the house. I'm having um I was telling my wife i'm having more and more of an allergic reaction

01:27:04

There's only one thing in the world that i'm really allergic to and that's mold Um, and uh, it started raining here a lot recently

01:27:11

Um after after that hurricane blew through we didn't have rain for over a month Which is crazy around here because we actually live in a rain forest um, but it has started raining a lot more and it's interesting is that Unlike ever any time before when it's been raining.

01:27:26

I've been getting this allergic reaction more so Uh, that's definitely something that we uh are still in the midst of taking care of Yeah, so if folks want to help out give send go dot com slash sfe

01:27:39

That's give send go Dot com slash sfe if you want to help the

01:27:45

Brewsters out they would appreciate it so let's let's continue with uh, a little bit more from our

01:27:51

Time when we had kelly on here this next clip chuck I I I kind of Well, we'll let's just roll it

01:28:01

But what I have a more serious problem with are the young earthers That want us to deny what we know from science and as a result they want us to ignore scientists when they tell us things like Take a vaccine for the pandemic now

01:28:19

I know not all young earthers did that, you know, some of the young earthers did very much support You know going out and get your and guess what the science the science supported not getting the vaccine over six minutes later

01:28:32

We heard her say This now you don't want to even talk so You know, well because it's because you've brought up a topic that I was not prepared for If I had known that this was going to be the topic

01:28:45

I would have brought facts and figures with me But I did not know that this topic would come up and so I did not bring any facts and figures with me and i'm not

01:28:53

Prepared to defend that position, but you brought these topics up. I didn't well, okay You're right.

01:28:59

I did You know that almost never gets honest she was honest though she admitted it

01:29:07

I swear so many talking heads on the internet say things And then they go and they deny it later.

01:29:13

It's like you do realize you're on the internet, right? We could go back and rewind this

01:29:20

So, yeah, I mean she caught herself she their immediate reaction was self -defense I didn't

01:29:26

You're right. I did Yeah, and what I what I find interesting in that clip

01:29:33

Is that she did a bait and switch, right? So she goes she talks about the you know, the scientists talking about, you know, the young earth

01:29:40

Well, she's talking about historical sciences and then she flips the switch over to the modern day practical sciences of doing uh, uh, what she call it the the uh, not the injections, but the

01:29:52

Vaccines, right? And so that's a bait switch. Those are two very different fields of sciences and she's trying to conflate the two well, it was very interesting.

01:30:01

I actually think it was pretty good. She did that because What she did was like these p these flat earthers that don't accept the science and like getting a vaccine now

01:30:10

This is where I say I personally believe at this point in the show. This was toward the end of the show

01:30:16

I think she was trying to play the victim She the plan was for her to play this for her audience on her program

01:30:25

And I think she was trying to play the victim so she can go. Oh, look how mean they were to me and I think the

01:30:33

I personally think the reason she didn't put it on her show is because Not only were we not mean but she came off at the end being

01:30:42

Kind of mean like she's just shutting everyone down. I don't want to talk, you know, and here what she's doing is saying

01:30:49

Well, it's you know, she's a she's trying to equivocate Denying evolution

01:30:56

Being a young earth creationist With denying the science of vaccines now chuck you mentioned the difference of the science.

01:31:03

I get it But here's the thing Well, I and I and if you go back and re -watch just watch drew's face

01:31:12

Because that was classic when when she mentions the vaccine his eyes lids is his eyebrows go up like oh really?

01:31:20

And then just as she continues talking. He just puts his head in his hands like wow, okay Because the science doesn't support that the vaccines helped

01:31:29

Now this isn't me talking This is the cdc And their their own reporting of vaccine harms

01:31:39

Okay, the vars database And if you look at the database you see that yeah, they they had to come clean and admit that yes

01:31:48

The vaccine is doing more damage And more harm than any other vaccine they've ever done

01:31:56

In fact, whenever they get a vaccine that does more than a few cases of death of of harm

01:32:01

They usually take it off the market This one they just didn't show the data for for years

01:32:09

But the data is out there now folks. I'm just saying And and so where she when we'll get this where she says i'm making claims

01:32:17

What was I citing i'm citing somewhere she could go the cdc the vars database

01:32:24

You could go there that's that's that's what we'd call actual science like you you get a um you know a

01:32:34

Place where you could study it research it and then you you document it and you show it right? It's it wasn't just a claim um, okay, so, uh dan is saying

01:32:46

But then they argue that vars data isn't patrolled Patrolled and uh curled for accuracy

01:32:57

Okay I that's fine But it is still the official database that they use for all the other vaccines

01:33:07

Why is that argument never used for any other vaccines? right Aaron you you posted something here.

01:33:14

Why don't you just share it? Yeah, it's just um If you you rarely ever see this and it can't because it can't happen and generally it won't happen

01:33:24

You've got two sides debating generally speaking one person Is coming at it for more of a logical premise research premise

01:33:31

The other person who plays the victim card isn't a lot of emotions a lot of opinions You rarely have two people

01:33:36

Playing the victim at the same time because I mean Her playing the victim you could have just as easily played the victim with with and probably had even more of a reason to do

01:33:46

So that she did Um, but you're above that right oftentimes the conservative or the christian within the debate is not going to do that um

01:33:55

But oftentimes in those types of things if I happen to be there and i'm one of the only other people I will I will play the victim, but i'll do so in a

01:34:03

Not a not a sarcastic or sardonic way, but i'll do so in a um

01:34:09

Oh, the word just completely left me in such a way where it's clear That I actually could play the victim

01:34:16

But you're not but i'm not not really doing it because it's foolish. It doesn't

01:34:22

Doesn't yeah For hyperbole and it doesn't actually move anything forward So I I like to do that.

01:34:29

I mean, I don't I don't recommend it You have to do that just the right way so that they understand and you're communicating the right way

01:34:34

You're not making fun of them and you know, whatever But I did do that. I will get to that clip

01:34:41

Very subtle way Good in a very subtle way because I used the left the leftist language

01:34:47

Against her Yeah, that's so beautiful when you start using their because their arguments are so empty

01:34:54

When you use it against them and then they start denying the exact same arguments that they were just using. Oh, it's gorgeous

01:34:59

Yeah, and and so This is what you could do folks like notice what I did in that clip

01:35:04

She brings up young earth creationists. Now again, i've seen her Chuck she did this with you.

01:35:10

She did it with um, eric and eric I don't think is a young earth creationist. So that was kind of funny

01:35:17

But this is her like go -to like is those young earth creationists don't believe in science

01:35:23

Said no young earth creationist ever Um, I know dan isn't here, but dan's listening and I know there's the delay but dan

01:35:32

Uh, you are a young earth creationist. Do you believe in science? We'll wait for his answer to come up and then we'll put it on screen.

01:35:38

I think I know what his answer is going to be I know what mine will be. I don't want to say it because I mean

01:35:43

I could you know Pre -judge, uh, you know Dan and he might just say it because I said it we wouldn't we wouldn't want that.

01:35:51

So, uh, but You know, she's she equivocates young earth creationism with the danger

01:35:58

Um, you know, he's he's gonna go Depends upon how you define it Well, i'm gonna say that we we we agree to that we do science, um

01:36:10

The the the right science a bit, you know, the the not this made -up science of we just say

01:36:17

Okay, let me go. I'll board it this way. We have to recognize that nowadays and I think I said this to to kelly um, unfortunately nowadays truth doesn't matter the narrative matters and so um

01:36:29

You know, so yeah, like he's saying operational science is good. Yep, and we would use that We have no problem with that.

01:36:35

That's different than the historical science That like dan is saying scientism is bad

01:36:42

Uh that historical science that chuck referred to Oh, I will say here though real quick just in case everyone anyone hasn't caught this uh, that scientism concept really has shown how

01:36:54

Scientists have become the priests And as the priests would claim to speak for god therefore regardless of what

01:37:01

I say Or how contradictory it may be or whatever the case may be I'm ordained to do this and you just have to do what

01:37:08

I say That's really science has become a religion to the degree that i'm a scientist

01:37:14

I can just make a claim oftentimes it's unresearched or it's just my opinion or it's it's really just literally falsified

01:37:20

And you absolutely have to bow to that claim because I am the scientist

01:37:28

Yeah, and andrew says, uh making it up in her as her as her brain evolves

01:37:36

So so yeah, so I mean, you know no Where so my thinking at this point is she's starting to play the victim

01:37:44

For her audience to put it on her her channel and I want to now take this and kind of Expose what she's doing or you know kind of call it out.

01:37:56

So she brought the young earth creation. She brought up the the vaccines Well You know, this is something i've actually researched now remember she she brought up the the project 2025, but she wasn't ready to talk about it

01:38:10

She brings this up, but she's not ready to talk about it You know, well if I knew this was going to be the subject

01:38:15

I would have been prepared Well, you know, I I think I said to her. I don't know if I have the clip of it But I said to her

01:38:21

I wasn't ready to talk about it because I didn't bring it up. She did But I wasn't ready to talk about but I could so I did

01:38:29

Why did I do it because I wanted to show that where she's saying Oh, you young earth creationists have a problem.

01:38:36

You don't believe in science like vaccines Well, the vaccines are false like she's trusting a faulty science

01:38:43

Because that that science was out of a political agenda And so she's trusting a a political science and then attributing that to her evolutionary science

01:38:57

Which also comes from an agenda See, so I actually see that they're not A little bit different in the sense chuck than you had brought up because I think they actually are the same

01:39:07

They're both an agenda driven science not a evidence driven science

01:39:13

Never I never use those language that type of language before never thought of it that way, but I think it really fits well

01:39:19

And I may start using them more. So what we believe in to get to what dan was saying earlier, right? When he he said the funds depends how you define science when we're talking evidence -based science

01:39:30

But that's different than their Then with their biased based science they start with their conclusion and then want to prove it, right

01:39:40

And they and they and as we had earlier in this show the guy that's telling us we're begging the question Well, the science doesn't support evolution you you have to start with that conclusion to get there, but Let's move on and chuck did you have anything you wanted to add to that I should

01:39:56

I think y 'all handled it perfectly. Okay. Let's see the the rest of this clip that we have from her

01:40:02

It's going to get fun Okay I'm sorry.

01:40:09

I i've had it What what what have you had it with you why

01:40:17

Because I think you're off the wall You know, you're you're citing all these things and claiming them to be facts that are not facts well actually here's the difference you you made a whole bunch of claims

01:40:28

That you just made claims over and over I told you where you could go. You can go to the cdc

01:40:33

You can go to you can go to dr. Fauci and go back and listen And see the things that we said, but it's off the wall because it's not part of your narrative so Like are you looking for truth or narrative becomes the thing and and you're you you're now upset just because we said something that Didn't support the narrative

01:40:56

No, that's not it at all Then what is

01:41:03

I'm done. All right Okay, I I really am done with that topic

01:41:12

I don't want to talk about that topic You want to talk about that topic fine? You guys can talk among yourselves and i'll leave that Well, we'll we'll end the show.

01:41:20

I just want to I just want to point out, you know Kelly, it is interesting I don't I don't

01:41:26

I don't know where all of a sudden it went awry other than the fact that we stated something that you just whether it's a young earther young earth position or or kovid that you just Became intolerant about and and clearly intolerant because now you don't want to even talk

01:41:42

So, you know, well because it's because you've brought up a topic that I was not prepared for If I had known that this was going to be the topic

01:41:50

I would have brought facts and figures with me But I did not know that this topic would come up and so I did not bring any facts and figures with me and i'm

01:41:58

Not prepared to defend that position, but you brought these topics up. I didn't well, okay You you're you're right.

01:42:04

I did but I I did not realize that that was where you would go I I really had no idea

01:42:11

But i'm not being intolerant of you I mean you brought it up and i'm not sitting and saying okay i'm done because I don't like what you're saying

01:42:18

You brought it up I gave you I gave you facts and gave you places you can go you can go and look at the the numbers of the death rate around the world

01:42:27

And see the statisticals and can I do that and come back here and and have an answer for you in one minute?

01:42:34

No, I can't. No, I didn't say within a minute All right I can't possibly defend that I wasn't

01:42:39

I wasn't asking you to defend I was just I was stating I was Stating a different point of view

01:42:44

And yeah, and and you're entitled to your point of view. I told you that but I wasn't being intolerant of you

01:42:50

It is okay. Well, you didn't say what I like i'm gonna shut you down So how have I shut you down?

01:42:55

You're able to talk. I haven't shut you down. No, you're like, okay, that's it I'm done. I'm leaving I you know

01:43:01

That that's being intolerant Okay, whatever I Don't look so so I'm gonna get back so we get

01:43:12

I don't want to get so what you see there. That's a longer quote and yes, I just had to include that part where she was like Um the wrong one where she's like, well, you know,

01:43:21

I didn't say oh I did say that, you know because that's just too funny, but uh, so let me just ask that Aaron, what was it that I did?

01:43:29

What what word did I use on her? That's that's Yeah, you

01:43:34

I just put it in the in the The comments the left cannot be intolerant.

01:43:40

It's impossible. It's just like It's just like people of a darker skin color cannot be racist.

01:43:46

That's just that's just impossible Don't you realize that only white people can be racist and only people on the right can be intolerant

01:43:52

That if they don't like to have that tossed out when i'm as soon as you said it, I was like nice Yeah As dan says andrew dropped the

01:43:59

I word intolerant touche and and that so why did I do that, right? I wanted to you guys it was longer part of it.

01:44:06

But what i'm doing is she's I think she's trying to play the victim And she's going to be there and like, oh, well, like look how bad

01:44:15

I was treated. He's so Listen to the words she used of me, right?

01:44:21

I'm being ridiculous You go back and listen to the whole thing see whether I called her names

01:44:28

You're not going to find that One of the things in situ and of course going back and looking this i'm not saying that I would have said that in this moment

01:44:35

But there have been times that i've had opportunities where I try to do this where and i'm not people folks

01:44:41

Listen, i'm not saying it works like to the degree that you know Oh, they see it every single time, but sometimes they do and sometimes i've even had people

01:44:50

Uh apologize for it But just to say, you know something to the effect of listen if I if you had invited me onto your show

01:44:59

And I had brought up the topic of abortion And you started throwing out all of these statistics about it and then

01:45:06

I just basically shut down and said i'm done talking because Because I didn't know abortion was going to be brought up and I wasn't prepared to talk about it and I started calling you names

01:45:15

Do you think that would be appropriate behavior for me now if she says yes Then that's interesting

01:45:24

Generally speaking though. They're they're honest enough to go. Well, no Or they don't answer right which of course is the answer, you know, they know they don't like that And so sometimes the best way in conversations like this is sometimes just to say just to flip it on If I did this to you, would you be okay with that?

01:45:41

Oh, you're not okay So why is it okay for you to do it to me? And if nothing else when the when that question is asked even if they refuse to answer it or answering it up here

01:45:49

And hopefully they're seeing a little bit of their hypocrisy Yeah, I mean So dan dan had said

01:45:57

Rhetorical judo using her vocabulary against her and and that's that's what that I mean

01:46:03

So I want you to notice so when you're doing apologetics, what was I doing? Why did I do it?

01:46:08

Right? That's what this show is about right? It's not just to do apologetics, but to show and and train in apologetics

01:46:15

Notice what she's doing is she's playing the victim and she's trying to explain that she's she's had it because i'm being so unreasonable well

01:46:25

Did I? Then act unreasonable. That is a tendency. We might have right we might get defensive

01:46:33

Instead of asking how am I being unreasonable? Because we said something you didn't like and that's that's that's actually what it was right

01:46:42

She did she brought up the topic of the vaccines and both

01:46:47

You know and I clipped it out, but you could see because it wasn't relevant to the to this conversation but both

01:46:55

Drew and I answered about the vaccines We we could explain it and she just didn't like it

01:47:02

Because she didn't have an answer now the the defensiveness is what you saw So she got defensive because It look folks all of us have experienced this when someone

01:47:13

Kind of pushes us challenges us to give an answer to something. We don't know especially when you're you're you know on a public

01:47:20

You know live stream and people are watching people who follow you're watching there is a tendency

01:47:26

So i'm not gonna like let's be careful not to be too critical because all of us have this tendency to want to defend ourselves

01:47:36

And I would hope that in hindsight she would have went, you know, that really was wrong and how I behaved

01:47:43

Um now if she really felt she was wrong, I would hope that she'd reach out but she's like, you know Do I have time to respond to this in a minute?

01:47:51

now notice I want you guys to ask think about this question when she brought up the covid vaccines and young earthers

01:48:00

Did I have time to go and research it And come back within a minute

01:48:07

Nope, I didn't have that either Did I do it? Anyway, I didn't do the research.

01:48:13

I brought research. I had already done But did anyone ask her to give an answer within a minute no

01:48:20

In fact, hey kelly if you're watching you could come back if you want. Let's have a long discussion on covid vaccines the political the politicizing of it

01:48:31

And and how that all worked because I got news for you when we look at the evidence It's not going to be in your favor

01:48:39

I mean the fauci emails are now out They've now admitted that they just made up six foot distance.

01:48:46

Why because well three foot seemed too close and nine foot seemed too far That was the logic

01:48:52

For six feet there was no science It was politics if you want to come on do your research come let's let's discuss it

01:49:01

You know and then another clips Another tactic to watch out for though from from a side that is similar to that regardless of what the conversation is

01:49:11

Is just making these accusations Like, you know because it's it does sound irrational

01:49:17

Like how dare you just expect me to be able to answer a question, you know You should expect me just to go and find this answer right now.

01:49:24

Um that it's it sounds Um, it sounds very unacceptable that you would require a person to do that In actuality, you never did that As if i'm enforcing that exactly you were just having a conversation.

01:49:37

That's how conversations work. You brought up something we talked about it, right? So it's funny like you can take a normal conversation between two people and you can re -skin it

01:49:45

In such a way like can you believe that person came up to me and demanded that I answer their question?

01:49:51

When all they did was like, hey, do you know what time it is? You're right. So by by doing they gotta watch out for that because sometimes

01:49:57

I have seen some people In a conversation like that with a person who's on the right side trying to do it the right way

01:50:03

Where they actually start to believe it themselves they actually start to feel like Oh, did

01:50:10

I do that? Oh, I was doing that wasn't I'm really sorry about that and they start to apologize. Um, you

01:50:16

Be careful know that that could possibly happen beyond the watch for and just try to be and go with what was actually said

01:50:23

Not just their description of it Yeah, and and you saw that's pretty much what I did is to you know, like because she's trying to say

01:50:32

That i'm the big meanie I'm mistreating her But the whole time it's a subject that she brought up And as we're answering she's getting more and more uncomfortable

01:50:45

Because she's trying to say like and and so i'm trying to put myself in her thinking and saying

01:50:51

Until I address that at the end that she brought it up. She's thinking That you know here we're talking about covid and vaccines and she's not ready to talk about that She doesn't want to talk about that.

01:51:01

And why are we making her talk about that? Until she realized though she brought it up And and then the doubling down was will do you expect me to have an answer like to go research this and have it?

01:51:12

No, but that's why I point out. I didn't have that time either I mean I could have said um and and humble clay says this

01:51:19

He said here's a good answer. I'm not prepared for this subject at this time, which she has done.

01:51:25

She did it Uh, not only on on my on the program here But she did it with chuck as well on her own program

01:51:33

And I started doing with eric hernandez where she she would say, you know, i'm not I I don't know about that or i'm not

01:51:40

You know prepared for that. So so humble clay that's not outside of uh, the the you know, the realm of what she would do

01:51:47

Um, andrew graham, by the way says andrew the big meanie That's going to be the memes

01:51:54

You know, yeah, and erin erin is posting. Uh, andrew is a big meanie. We all know it Let the memes begin the the meanie means

01:52:03

Mimi memes. Yeah, that's that's Kind of confusing but what we see with kelly in these in these

01:52:10

Clips and her statements and the way she's conducting herself Is that we see romans 1 21 coming alive where it says that they're thinking that the unbelievers are thinking has become futile

01:52:21

And and she's just displaying that over and over and over again Yeah, and it's interesting because you know,

01:52:29

I purposely did this next clip because of you chuck um throughout throughout your

01:52:38

Uh discussion when you were on her program The majority of the discussion that you kept pressing for was the issue of authority

01:52:48

Let's hear her on that subject I I don't look to scientists for authority on history.

01:52:56

I don't look to scientists for authority on morality. I don't look to scientists for Authority on on legal matters.

01:53:03

I only look to scientists for authority on science, you know affairs One looks to the experts in the particular field of their expertise

01:53:11

That we don't we don't I don't take one group of people and make them the authority over everything So let me ask a question um when she appealed to uh the vaccines and young earth you know pitting young earth scientists against um you know

01:53:33

Those that would hold to the vaccine and she's not all young some young earthers were willing to take a vaccine Because they were mandated to um

01:53:42

For many but what is she doing She's relying on the science to tell us well morality because they were telling us this is you know

01:53:50

Getting the vaccine was loving your neighbor That's a morality thing um

01:53:56

You know, by the way, I know someone someone andrew graham I think said, uh that the vaccine Yeah, it got the vaccines got worse when biden took office

01:54:04

If if kelly does come on, you know what I would do I all I would do is grab the clips of joe biden and kamala harris before the election of 2020

01:54:15

Where they said we can't trust this vaccine We I mean the government just rushed this through the government.

01:54:20

This is a government funded thing a government done thing Like, you know, we can't just do this

01:54:26

And then soon as they get elected Suddenly it's like we got to mandate this because you you have to do this for for the betterment of everything you know um so Oh, so mighty serlac says, uh, my worldview doesn't entail an ultimate authority

01:54:47

That may be mighty serlac, but we do know you're you're too cowardly to come in and discuss that where you'll probably be like Kelly here and just having to backtrack

01:54:57

But hey if you want to come in uh, you know, I know the show is going to end in four minutes, but we'd love to have you on and we could

01:55:04

Discuss your ultimate worldview because you have one everyone does The difference is your ultimate worldview is the same as ours.

01:55:13

You just suppress that in unrighteousness so uh And we'd be happy to show that to you

01:55:21

So what I think is interesting with what kelly said was, you know, it's what's her authority and she's going to say

01:55:26

Well, she only looks to You know the scientists to talk about science Right, that's her so her authority is the scientists

01:55:36

Um chuck, let me ask you a question. I um have scientists ever been wrong about their science

01:55:44

I think that's axiomatic Yes, they have yeah, that's why science keeps changing and so You know, so in that case guess what?

01:55:55

That they we can't trust that science by the way. So mighty serlac says it's not cowardly

01:56:00

I'm at work. I had to go earlier. So mighty serlac How about we set up a time you come on in?

01:56:08

Uh, and and let's have the discussion. Uh, we have some open dates in january I would be happy for you to do that.

01:56:15

Just you can email me info at striving for eternity .com Uh, let me put it up on screen.

01:56:22

There you go. Uh, nope. That's the wrong one Hold on There we go one just below it contact us at info at striving for eternity .com

01:56:33

info at striving for eternity .com mighty serlac Show me you're not a coward

01:56:40

Show me that you will email me We will set up a time so that we can have a nice long discussion about your worldview

01:56:47

We'll even invite chuck back on so that chuck could enjoy the discussion as well

01:56:53

So that would be mighty fun, uh, so I I did mention that I would let you know where uh, dan is speaking.

01:57:03

So, um Actually, I could just share this On screen even because we could do that sort of thing.

01:57:10

So here is the website that is hosting it um so it is at So it's mission connects us so the website itself is

01:57:23

Mission m -i -s -s -i -o -n connection is c -o -n -n -e -x

01:57:32

I -o -n. So instead of t it's an it's an x there. So mission connection dot global and This is january 17th and 18th at sunset church um

01:57:47

I'm, not quite sure Where that is because I look to see

01:57:52

Let me see the about us if it tells where they're at I don't that doesn't look like that tells it so, um

01:58:03

Trying to see if I they have maybe on their contact page So this is in northwest somewhere.

01:58:09

We know in portland area so, uh sunset church portland may be the best place to go and and just look that up and So dan is saying portland portland like, you know, here's the thing like i'm on the other window

01:58:25

So I can't see but dan says portland or organ But then he's got to yell at me

01:58:30

Portland and the separate one portland and he says Look at me Because there's only one place in portland

01:58:38

Yeah, obviously there you'll everyone in portland can find him just go and look for some seven foot guy

01:58:43

He's standing above he's looking down on all of us, you know It's little people, you know

01:58:52

He's he says I need more monitors um I I don't know that I need more monitors here, sir

01:58:59

Let's see. Do I have do I have the picture still of my monitor? Let me see His monitor is just seven feet tall so Yeah, let me let me you know,

01:59:10

I I don't I don't see why I need more monitors let me um So i'm going to present what what my setup here

01:59:17

And what you're going to see is my monitor On the right two of my monitor is a 27 inch macbook

01:59:25

Okay So if you think how big a 27 inch macbook is We had a someone that a supporter of the ministry donate my monitor and there it is

01:59:36

Uh, that is a 55 inch Gaming monitor

01:59:44

That someone gave to us and so on that is my logos, uh, my logos software right there and um,

01:59:53

This is all of first corinthians 12 13 and 14 on one screen

02:00:00

So dan I'm, like you I just like everything big He his response, uh too small you need more

02:00:11

Yeah To dan everything is too small When you're seven foot tall everything's too small, uh, so chuck thanks for coming in.

02:00:21

Um, I want to give you a chance to promote, uh any way that folks can get a hold of you

02:00:26

Yeah, so i'll run the twitter account atheist nightmares so you can contact me Uh through there and if you don't have twitter or you want to contact me another way you can contact me with uh through Atheist nightmares at gmail .com

02:00:41

and if you're in the league city, texas area, i'll just give a Promotion for my church is a good solid reformed church.

02:00:48

It's a five solace church of league city, texas and so if you're in the area come by and uh

02:00:54

And visit and uh at the end of this month november 30th A group of us are going down to galveston for the art walk and we're going to be doing some street witnessing.

02:01:03

And so Say hi Yeah, that would be good uh

02:01:09

Aaron anything you have coming up other than Getting rid of mold in your house

02:01:17

Yeah, i've uh one When I took a step back from the podcast in order to deal with the aftermath

02:01:25

I was like man I don't know how long it's going to take me to get back to this and it looks like very easily through the end of the year

02:01:31

Um at the bare minimum before i'm able to get back to uh podcasting weekly

02:01:37

Um, i'm trying I I did have recently a gentleman invited me onto his show to talk about my new book called quit and I plan on um putting

02:01:46

For a moment. What's what's the new book called for my book called quit how to cure?

02:01:52

Sorry how to stop family strikes for good um, so I was on um That show i'm going to kind of put out uh on my podcast but right now the lord has just kind of uh

02:02:03

Pressed me into a pause and said there are other things. I want you working on right now So be praying for me.

02:02:08

I'd love to get back to um Traveling and speaking and and podcasting as soon as possible

02:02:15

All right and so I think that I am uh done traveling for the year which i'm

02:02:22

Glad for I I will admit I should have I could have mentioned this earlier in the show. I was at the fight laugh feast uh, it was really enjoyable aaron because no one recognized me

02:02:35

I walked around like a normal person at a conference like no one came up and asked for a photo nobody nobody was like it was really hysterical because And I shared this on a couple different podcasts that I was on but you know, we

02:02:49

I I was talking To one of the guys that helps us out here. He runs let's church ken powers and I saw him and like hey ken and i'm talking to him and he's being super polite and And then he came by where we were and i'm talking to him again and I thanked him.

02:03:06

I said hey, thanks for the The t -shirt you sent me Uh, I really like that. I like that your bag has and I should go grab it

02:03:12

But his bag he's got his the the the bag that he puts stuff his materials in says let's church

02:03:18

So he's really got the branding down And he looks at me goes. Oh, wow. I just realized who you are

02:03:27

We're talking for 20 minutes And he's just being polite and he realized like because the beard it threw him off It was so hysterical.

02:03:36

I had one guy that he was talking to me and we have never met and he's talking to me, but he follows the ministry and he's

02:03:44

As we're talking I just he and he told us on his podcast that he's interviewing me because he goes he did you know that I just introduced myself as andrew because that's kind of my name and so Later someone's walking and they and they go.

02:03:58

Hey rapaport. I just waved and he goes wait, you're andrew rapaport Because all of a sudden

02:04:06

I got a beard I haven't had a beard in all these years and It only took me a few weeks to suddenly have a beard.

02:04:11

Yeah, and I want you to know first of all i'm Super jealous, right? It's like i'm crossing the line into into like envy.

02:04:19

Um, so there's that You you can pull off what this gentile just cannot do.

02:04:25

Um, but but then what's even worse? What's even worse is that I know that you love your bride enough that when uh,

02:04:32

The two of you are back in the same state. We are We are you still have it and I still have it.

02:04:38

Yeah dad. You missed it earlier You'll have to go back dead ass. You look at his face She has she is

02:04:44

I thought for sure it would get hacked off and then it's like oh man He's back to that and I can't even do it

02:04:49

I even told her that she could she could cut her hair short and she hasn't done that either Dan is saying scandal

02:04:56

It is I cannot believe she's home and you still have yeah I will have to make her watch this so she can see uh,

02:05:04

The look on your face when she when you found out because she just realized what the rest of us realized, you know

02:05:09

He looks nice and rugged and manly and maybe she's coming around so I was on I was on uh, we did a a joint podcast with keith foskey from your calvinist podcast and Uh, really?

02:05:21

I think really it was on it was on dead man walking podcast greg moore and we were just all doing a talking together and it was really funny because Keith keith ends up going

02:05:32

They talk about my beard and keith is like mrs Rappaport if you're if you're watching like let him keep the beard for our sake

02:05:41

It covers up his face so so I I sent it to my bride and I said here listen at the 44 minute mark

02:05:49

There there's a message for you. I think she knew exactly where she she started Yeah, she didn't jump to 44 minutes.

02:05:56

She actually listened to the whole thing. I hadn't gotten there so while we're eating dinner, I I jumped to the 44 minute mark and played the whole thing for her and she listened to Keith foskey is uh encouragement to her

02:06:08

I I would like to think it's wearing down like she's starting to get used to it and liking it but Yeah, no, no at some point either her her hair is getting cut short or my beard's going off So we'll see thanksgiving's coming.

02:06:22

I i'm going to try to have it for thanksgiving for my family really would it be fun is uh to show up at in february at uh,

02:06:30

Jeffrey reiss at the open air theology conference um on uh Yeah, the war conference is what they're calling it.

02:06:38

Uh, Basically the the the war against our flesh and so yeah, it's gonna it'll be fun to be there

02:06:45

It was it was fun being at You know fight left feast this reform presbyterian

02:06:50

Conference and and I kind of fit in I had the beard like they have and and everything but see now

02:06:56

Look, we all have beards. It's just that Now you're the one with the least facial hair

02:07:03

It's true and i'm the one with the most and very much My wife tolerates with my beard.

02:07:10

She just wants it to be shorter That's the struggle in our relationship. I keep it. I keep it so short that people think

02:07:16

I don't have a beard That's typically what I do. I just I have a beard. It's just extremely short

02:07:23

So dan is calling me john calvinist Rappaport That's you are the third person to say that that I look like calviners

02:07:31

I don't know what it is about my beard that you know I just i'm glad that there's enough white in it that people don't think

02:07:37

I look like mel gibson anymore Last time I had a beard people thought I looked like mel gibson because it was only white in the front like he had that so But all right.

02:07:46

So next week, what do we have on the agenda? um next week's show the plan is

02:07:54

I will be reaching out to uh this guy that uh, uh

02:08:00

I can't remember his facebook or twitter. His his name was andrew But he wants to debate the topic

02:08:07

Is god is jesus god or the son of god? I found that interesting.

02:08:13

I said I I offered to debate is jesus god or not and he wants to debate as god

02:08:19

Is jesus god or the son of god and I said you do realize those are both the same thing, right?

02:08:25

Yeah I was gonna say the answer is yes Yeah, like i'm gonna say yes to both because son of god is a title of deity so I don't

02:08:36

Like okay, I think we're first like so so i'll in case he's watching i'll tell you my game plan for next week

02:08:42

I'm gonna show that the title Son of god is a claim of deity like son of man is a claim of humanity

02:08:51

And then i'm just going to agree with both uh, you know like so And when what i'm going to do is since he didn't want to debate whether jesus is

02:09:02

Is god or not? He wants to debate whether he's son of god or god

02:09:08

And i'm just going to say both And he's going to want to deny the deity i'm going to go. Well, that wasn't the topic you wanted to debate

02:09:16

The only argument he can he can possibly try to Do from a biblical perspective would be that there were other people who were referred to as sons of god other

02:09:25

Other creatures referred to as sons of god and and but that I don't know what else he could do

02:09:34

Andrew is this person a jehovah's witness? I I don't know So and wrong one uh so, uh

02:09:45

Mighty sir lax says to jesse I get you're desperately trying to put me in your script because they're having a whole conversation

02:09:52

This is what happens for the live show if you're if you don't watch live in the chat You know on youtube you're you're missing out.

02:09:59

Um you're trying to put me in your script, but Let let have an honest conversation

02:10:05

Where you try to understand my position That's why we would love to have you come on the program so that we could discuss your your position

02:10:14

That would be a wonderful thing to do. I look forward to you sending an email info at striving for eternity .com

02:10:21

And with that we'll see you next week Remember to strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of god