April 25, 2019 Show with Anthony Mathenia on “Better Than Life: A Ministry On the Front Lines of the Abortion Clinic”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Your love is better than life.

Your love is better than life.

Yes, the love of the Lord Jesus Christ certainly is better than life and we're going to be talking about a new ministry called

Better Than Life, a ministry on the front lines of the abortion clinic and to discuss this is a returning guest,

Anthony Mathenia. He is one of three pastors at Christ Church in Radford, Virginia and a conference speaker and it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Anthony Mathenia.

Yeah, thanks for having me again, Chris. Well, before we go into our theme, the Better Than Life ministry, please let our listeners know something about Christ Church in Radford, Virginia.

Yeah, Christ Church is a confessionally reformed Baptist church. We're about nine years old, between eight and nine years old.

Radford is in the southwestern part of the state in the Blue Ridge Mountains.

Virginia Tech University, Radford University are both right in our backyards. Heart Pride Missionary Society is housed here in our church and now we have this new opportunity for a ministry at the abortion clinic in Roanoke, Virginia, which is just a half hour up the interstate and we're excited about the opportunities that the

Lord continues to provide for us to minister. Praise God. And if anybody wants more information about this church in Radford, Virginia, Christ Church, go to Christ Church, I'm sorry, it's

Christchurch .ch. This is a new one for me. Christchurch .ch.

That's Christchurch .ch. I've never seen a website like that. Is that a new URL that they're offering just very recently because I've never seen it before?

It's fairly new. It's borrowed from an international country that has CH as the ending, but it worked very well for a very simple

Christchurch with a dot between the R and the C. Well, I can never talk too often about people who have a passion to rescue the life of the unborn.

And if you could tell us something about this new ministry, how it began, the Better Than Life ministry.

Sure. I've had an interest in pro -life work and fighting for the life of the unborn, the pre -born for some time.

I've been interested in adoption. I have adopted kids who were adopted in my own family, lived in Ethiopia for a few years, and I've worked there a long time.

There's a great need there, but there's a need obviously right here in our own backyard as well. You're familiar with the statistics, and unfortunately, as Joseph Stalin is often credited with saying, one death is a tragedy and a million deaths is a statistic.

And when we talk about abortion in our country, we're talking about 61 million over the past 35, 40 years.

Wow. It's an awful atrocity. It's happening right underneath our noses in our backyards.

And we as a church have decided to at least put up a fight and attempt to speak on behalf of those who do not yet have a voice, but who deserve a chance to live.

We firmly believe that they were created in the image of God, that they have an eternal soul, and we desire to see them receive the justice that they do, that they're due.

That is a chance at life, rather than being snuffed out in their mother's womb, which unfortunately in our country has become a very dangerous spot.

It ought to be the very place of safety, but it's quite a dangerous place in our land.

So what are some of the specifics about the Better Than Life ministry? Exactly how you and the members of your congregation or other

Christian volunteers, what do you physically do, what do you intend to do, and so on.

And perhaps even how it might be different than some other pro -life ministries or abortion male evangelism ministries.

Sure. It's going to be comparable to what we are familiar with within the pro -life movement and ministry that's being done.

We say on the front lines of the abortion clinic, it's kind of a tagline, but we're doing gospel outreach, what you know as sidewalk counseling, attempting to make contact with the clients and those who are with them, as well as the workers as they're coming into the clinic each day, offering pregnancy assistance, maternity care, whatever services we can offer, we're seeking to provide those things free of charge.

We as a church have recently acquired the building immediately next door to the Planned Parenthood abortion clinic in Roanoke, and so we're seeking to combine these areas that are often split, usually people are either doing sidewalk ministry or in the

Crisis Pregnancy Center or Pregnancy Resource Center, CPC or PRC, depending on your preference.

We're attempting to have an all -in -one, we would like to be there on the sidewalk, attempting to make conversation, proclaim the gospel, but also offer immediate services free of charge next door that do not include, obviously, abortion.

Wow. Well, I want to give our listeners my email address if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Anthony Methenia.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and obviously a theme like this may readily draw the attention of people who have very personal and very private situations involving abortion, and you would want to ask those anonymously.

We completely understand that, but whatever the personal and private matter is, you may feel free to remain anonymous, but if it's not, if it's just a theological question or a question in general about the work of the

Better Than Life ministry, then please at least give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

One of the things that I've been thinking about a lot lately that has been perplexing me, and I don't know if I have the right answers as I don't have with many other issues in life, which is why my show is a guest -driven show.

I have enough intelligence to ask fairly decent questions, but not necessarily the intelligence to answer them.

But we as Christians, there are obviously millions of people surrounding us who believe in abortion.

They may even passionately believe in abortion, and when we are having our lost friends, family, and loved ones over the house, or perhaps we're over their house for a barbecue, we're having a nice, relaxing time, spending with them, enjoying some laughs, enjoying some good food, when the issue of abortion may come up, or even if you know that the person or the people that you're associating with on any given day, if you know ahead of time that they are believers in abortion, they might even work in an abortion clinic, or abortion mill.

So, how are we to, as Christians, be charitable, and even just down -and -out friendly, and not have a look of disapprovement, or a scowl, or a look of rage on our face?

Because this is such a horrifying issue. It goes beyond many sins in this life.

You know, you're basically believing, you're basically associating with, and having close contact and friendship at times with people who believe in murder, or maybe they are themselves murderers because they've had their children aborted, and a better term for that is murder.

How do we compartmentalize issues like this when we are interacting with the lost around us?

I mean, there are certain things that are a lot easier to overlook mentally.

You know, we don't want to look down our noses and judge people because they may drink more alcohol than we do, or do other things that we don't find, as Christians, to be acceptable, or even socially acceptable.

You know, you might be at a barbecue, and there are even homosexual couples that happen to be there because the neighbor invited them, or they may be in the family of the neighbor.

The list could go on and on, but there's something very different about this sin, because it involves the murder of the most helpless and fragile among us.

So if you could, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this issue, because I see it regularly on television, when you even have on a professedly conservative television station like Fox News, you will have very often the staunchly pro -life host of a show having a very pleasant, friendly chat with a pro -abortionist, and they, you know, are chuckling at things, and they're having pleasantries exchanged back and forth sometimes, and it's hard for me to wrap my head around that.

Sure. Yeah, I think starting with, but for the grace of God, there go

I, is a good starting point, realizing the compassion that Christ has shown, the realization of his mercy in your own life, and then showing pity, feeling pity for them that they are blinded to the reality that they are okay with this sin, or that they've committed the sin.

And I firmly believe that those who are guilty of the sin in the past, or who are promoters of it or are okay with it, do sense a conviction of that, because I believe that they were made in the image of God, just like all people are, and the law of God is written on their heart.

So as a result, I'm confident that proclaiming the truth of God at the neighborhood barbecue or on the clinic sidewalk, proclaiming the truth of God is what's going to bring about change in the person's heart and life.

Telling them exactly what the Word of God says about murder and about killing the innocent, and showing them that the

Word of God not only says that they are murderers and they are accomplices to the murder if they're just promoting it but not actually doing it, but that they're guilty and that there's freedom through the blood of Christ.

There's forgiveness available if there's guilt in the past or guilt in the immediate present as far as being an accomplice or a promoter of it, that the blood of Jesus is sufficient for even the wickedness of this type of sinful activity.

So at the same time though, are we as Christians to permit ourselves and even promote to fellow brothers and sisters the kind of friendship and activity that we would have with many other kinds of lost people who do all kinds of wicked things in the sight of God, who are even members of false religion?

I think it would be wrong for Christians to retreat into a Christian monastery, and I'm speaking figuratively of course, but many

Christians, or at least some I should say, today, things are different in the 21st century, but there are some

Christians who they only want to associate at all times with people who believe like they do and so on, and I don't believe that that is correct because how else are you going to evangelize the lost?

How else are you going to show the love of Christ through your own life? But are you saying that in this case we are to develop friendships and be very friendly and perhaps buy birthday gifts and Christmas gifts and do all the things that you do, laugh and see movies and go to sporting events and play softball or shoot some hoops and do all these kinds of things with people who believe in the murder of children?

I mean, is this an okay thing for us to do, or is it a right thing for us to do, and perhaps is it a commanded thing for us to do?

No, I think that retreat or diving in to the degree that you've just mentioned are two extremes and neither would be appropriate.

I think as these people are brought across our paths or we have opportunity to cross paths with them, we as Christians are called to be promoters of righteousness, and as a result we proclaim truth in the streets.

As we go about our daily business, we're proclaiming that Christ is king, that he came to set up a kingdom that is here and now, and we're proclaiming forgiveness of sins for those who will repent and commanding all men everywhere to repent and believe in the

Lord Jesus Christ. Not necessarily reaching out constantly in every area, attempting to befriend people, but reaching out in every area to proclaim the truth that Jesus is

Lord. Now if you could give us some examples on how you approach people who are believers of abortion, or they might even be walking into a clinic about to, and I hate to use that word clinic,

I prefer more abortion mill or abortuary or some other more sinister sounding name.

But when you approach people, and of course people are not cookie cutters, but how would you begin a conversation typically?

Right, where we are, it's a strategic location for them in that the parking lot, they have the ability to park quite a ways away from the public right of way where you're allowed to stand.

So it begins by, they're able to see you when they pull in, they have to drive past you standing there with a sign or something attempting to get their attention, but then just attempting to get their attention to look at you, asking if you can talk for a few minutes, begging them to not go in and kill their baby, to come and talk, and we have free resources, we can offer an ultrasound or counseling or maternity care, whatever they need, we're willing to talk about those things, and particularly we would like to share with them the good news that Jesus came into the world to save sinners, and if they're there to kill their baby, they're definitely in need of the grace that God has.

We are convinced that Christians are much less likely to kill their kids, so as a result we want to preach the gospel and see souls changed.

Obviously we want to see babies rescued from the slaughter, but we also want to see lives altered and relationships reconciled and families restored.

We want to be proclaimers of righteousness and preachers of truth. They are from the sidewalk as God gives us favor and attempt to speak into the lives of these people and into their communities.

Now as far as the actual manner, and of course different people have different personalities and different manners of speaking to begin with, and you also have on top of that circumstantial things that might change the manner with which somebody is approaching the subject publicly with somebody who might even be a stranger, and at an abortion mill would most probably be a stranger or strangers, but what about the manner as far as,

I know that there are Christians, even pro -life Christians, who are upset by other brothers and sisters in Christ who raise their voice.

They think that this is such a horrific act that may be about to take place that it calls for urgency, it calls for a loud proclamation, and of course none of us

I don't believe would agree with the horrible antics of people like in the

God hates fags movement, the Westboro Baptist Church I think it is called, who approach people even in cemeteries and other kinds of places with nothing but hatred and nastiness and mockery because they don't have any compassion because they don't even believe the people they're screaming at can be saved.

They don't even offer the gospel to them. But of course we reject that. I don't even believe that...

Right, well they don't offer the gospel because they don't know what the gospel is. Yes, and by the way, Pastor Anthony, your voice was very muffled there.

I don't know if you moved your mouth away from whatever mouth... Sorry, I was just saying they don't offer the gospel because they don't know what the gospel is.

Yeah, well it would seem that way, it would appear that way. But so what about the manner? Is it ever appropriate to raise our voices?

Do we always have to have soft, compassionate voices? And sometimes obviously if somebody is far enough away they're not even going to hear you if you're not raising your voice to some degree.

So tell us about the actual manner, and I know it would change from person to person and circumstance to circumstance likely, but...

Right, where we are there's no option but to raise your voice, and you're trying to rescue someone from being murdered.

I think it's hard to argue that raising your voice is not okay and even demanded in that situation.

I'm guessing if it's a 3 -year -old or 4 -year -old or a 13 -year -old or a 24 -year -old that's about to be murdered, a

Christian would be fine with their voice being lifted up in order that they might be heard in order to try to talk them out of committing such an injustice, something that they will have to live with, you know, the taking of another life.

Yeah, you said something very key here. Don't you think that very often we who are

Christians, we who are pro -life, we do treat the unborn with less urgency as a different category, even though we are the ones who are constantly saying this is a human, this is human life, it's murder, but at the same time we either consciously or unconsciously, very often, behave in a way where it is really not as important as a teenager being murdered.

Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. And so what is the response to that?

How do we behave in a society where you have,

I don't know what the statistics are, but I would assume that there is probably close to half of the population of the

United States of America who is in favor of at least early -term abortion. I don't know how low the numbers dip when it comes to late -term and partial birth and that kind of thing, but when we have, it's not like we have people in the millions around us murdering teenagers or believing in that.

How are we supposed to react to this in a different way, or should we at all?

I mean, like you were saying before, we can have some kind of restrained friendship, at least, with our neighbors who are pro -abortion, and yet we would not behave the same way if we witnessed them, or even discussing murdering their teenage son or teenager that lived in the neighborhood.

It's a perplexing thing for me. Sure, I mean, the reason that we think about it differently is because we aren't acquainted enough with the

God of the Bible and what his word says and what his law commands. If we come to grips with the fact that God is the creator of all life, and that his image is on every individual, whether in the womb or outside the womb, then

I don't think that we're going to treat those situations differently. But we, even as Christians in our culture, and in the pro -life community especially, we're just okay with that.

We're just okay with assuming that they don't have the same kind of rights because of either their size or their legal standing or the dependency or the environment in which we're in.

I mean, these are all arguments that are used to say that it's not a life. And when Christians begin to believe that and allow themselves to be driven by what the culture says or what the media says, what anyone says, then we've lost the battle.

If we go back to who God is and what God has said, then it becomes easier to see the need for us to speak on behalf of those who don't have a voice, to attempt to rescue them.

Proverbs 24, 11, deliver those who are being taken away to death and those who are staggering to slaughter.

Oh, hold them back. We have a responsibility from the word of God to attempt to deliver those who are being taken into the clinics to be killed.

This is very prevalent in our country. We've been on the phone almost, or been on the program for almost 30 minutes, which means about 60 babies have been killed.

On average, it's every 30 seconds in our country that another baby is being killed.

We have been silent as Christians in our country long enough.

We have to fight for the life of the pre -born.

That's one of the things that we feel strongly about as a church. It's why we've stepped out. It's why we've attempted to secure this property and are seeking to establish a clinic.

We're in the very early days of this. We just found out about the property the last week of January.

We have secured it, and now we're raising money to get it into the name of the ministry so that we can then open up a clinic and proceed with offering these services with a gospel base and a

Christocentric focus to the clients in the community who are coming otherwise to kill their children.

We would like to offer them gospel hope. Amen. Now, has Planned Parenthood found out what the people who just moved next door are planning to do?

It seems pretty obvious by a few things that have happened over the past couple of weeks that they know.

We're fine with that. We don't know what will be coming down the pipeline. Obviously, we know that they won't be happy with it, but we're not there to win friends.

We're there to win souls, and we will do what we feel absolutely convinced that God has called us to do there on that corner.

We have, let's see here, we have Christian in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, how do you react to people who claim to believe in the

Bible and yet also at the same time identify themselves as pro -choice?

They will sometimes say things like, the Bible never mentions abortion at all, and they will say that there is hyper -parabolic language being used in the

Psalms when it comes to us being knit together in our mother's womb, because even

David said he came from the womb a liar, and obviously when he was born he was not lying.

So they will say things like that are figurative language. Of course, we do know that there were enemies of God sacrificing their children to Molech, but that was children that were born, and it was an idolatrous and horrible pagan practice, which is somewhat different than the abortion sin.

So can you please give me some guidance here? Sure, a couple of things. One is the definition of life, what some of the argument that he is alluding to is saying that a life isn't a life until it's outside the womb, but nowhere in Scripture is that alluded to.

A life is a life because God made it a life, so from conception forward, the

Scriptures are clear that it is a life made in the image of God. Jeremiah said that as well, you knit me together in my mother's womb, before you bore me you knew me, and we had a name with God before we were ever born.

And with regard to the Bible not speaking about abortion, I think Exodus 20 verse 13 speaks very plainly to it, you shall not murder.

There's no ifs, ands, or buts. We as Christians are commanded to not murder, and abortion is murdering the pre -born, it is snuffing out their life before they have a chance to actually live in a way that you and I know it.

Amen. Well, we have to go to our first break right now, and if anybody else listening has any questions, send them in to chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. And as always, please at least give us your first name and city and state of residence and country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Don't go away, we'll be right back with Anthony Mathenia and the

Better of Life Ministry right after these messages from our sponsors. I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, host of A Visit to the

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So that's Solid -Ground -Books .com, Solid -Ground -Books .com. We are now back with our guest today,

Anthony Mathenia, who is one of three pastors at Christ Church in Radford, Virginia. We are discussing their new ministry,

Better Than Life, a ministry on the front lines of the abortion clinic. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who wants to know, have you experienced any opposition to this new ministry, both from within and without your congregation, because of the fact that there may be even

Christians who are pro -life, but who fear the physical retribution that may occur from the surrounding community?

Not from within my congregation. Everyone within the congregation within the

Church here is very much on board, and right now, because it's so early in the ministry, most of them are chomping at the bit to be more involved than they're able to be right now, because we're still seeking to raise the funds and establish all that's needed to be able to minister in a way that we desire.

So we're not dealing with that at all. And as I mentioned earlier, there isn't anything major coming from the outside that we can see so far.

A couple of little things make us aware that Planned Parenthood probably knows that we are next door, but nothing to speak of.

Nothing that's going to make us shy back for sure from what we feel like God's called us to do. We have

CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, I'm sorry if I missed this before, but I was wondering if Anthony Matheny, your guest today, has any experience in the pro -life movement in opposing abortion and even being an evangelist at abortion clinics prior to this new work that they are conducting today.

Not any extensive or ongoing opportunities. Some of that is a result of the towns that I've lived in and the places that I've been.

I do have a couple of children who were adopted through crisis pregnancy centers.

So I've been on that side of it primarily as far as the adoption option.

From those who were seeking abortions initially and going through crisis pregnancy centers. And we do hope to offer that as well when we get to that point in the ministry, giving ladies an opportunity to either parent their child, or we hope to assist in providing the option of adoption for those who are interested and willing to do that as well.

We have, let's see, we have John Embanger, Maine, who says,

What helpful tips can you give as far as a church starting their own pro -life ministry or abortion mill evangelistic ministry?

I think being very acquainted with the God of the Bible, with what the gospel is, and with who man is apart from the gospel.

Recognizing the sin that we are and the sin that we do, and believing wholeheartedly that the remedy, the only remedy and successful solution to that is the proclaimed gospel, the preached word.

And simply doing that, finding a way, figuring out where the abortion clinic is and when the clients are coming and going, and attempt to gain a hearing with them by showing up and proclaiming the truth of the scriptures to them.

Obviously, ideally, that works in a context where the entirety of the church is committed to it, to praying for you.

If you're not a minister there at the church, going to the minister and letting them know your desire to do that, asking for guidance and prayer with regard to that.

Maybe they'll go along with you to do it. Another good option is to go to endabortionnow .org.

They provide a lot of resources for churches who are interested in getting involved in this. Endabortionnow .org.

There are training videos and other things that are there that are helpful for walking through and assisting those who are interested in going to the local abortion clinics.

That's the ministry that Jeff Durbin and Marcus Pittman are involved in, correct? That's right.

Yeah, I interviewed Jeff, and one of the things, and perhaps it was the only thing that actually shocked me, that he said that I was totally unaware of before, but he said that nearly every single woman that he has approached entering into or leaving an abortion mill has said that she is fully aware and knowledgeable that she is either contemplating or actually going to murder a child.

He said that most of the women, the vast majority of the women, are fully accepting of this as a reality, that they are committing murder, but they just think that the circumstances and the situations in their life permit this.

I was very surprised. They know exactly what they're doing. That's what they're there for. They're there to kill their child.

Right. Obviously, we know that, according to Romans 1, those kinds of things are instilled within the nature of humans, and they suppress the truth.

But I was shocked to hear that these women, for the most part, the majority of them admit it.

Right. Is that from the conversations, at least, that you've had with people who want to have an abortion?

Do you think that most of them, as Jeff experienced, really know for certain?

Yes. I can remember decades ago, I'm 57, abortions were typically described as just removing a blob of tissue.

It's not really human. I always used to hear the line, nobody really knows when life begins, which, to me, was never a good argument for abortion because my response was always, well, you're willing to take a risk that you are murdering a child, then?

If nobody knows, then why even are you tampering with that? But it seems that there is, perhaps it's because of photographic evidence and all this, and the ultrasound,

I don't know what it is, but there seems to be a shift in the way it's discussed. Right.

There's no real question, as far as when life begins, that abortion is not a biological issue.

Maybe the media pretended that it was decades ago, and some may pretend that it is now, but it's not a biological issue.

The issue is not when life begins. They don't care when life begins. The issue is a complete disregard for life altogether because they have a disregard for life's author, for God himself.

That's who they are at war against, and that is the problem.

They are sinners. It's not simply the right to choose. It is an attempt to overthrow God, to usurp

Him as the King who has rightful reign in our world. Now, why do you think it is that historically, there was a day when the pro -life movement, those that were seeking to publicly stop women from having abortions in any way they could, both politically or even in their own activity, in their neighborhoods and in the cities and states where they live, it was nearly entirely a

Roman Catholic movement. Why do you think that so many biblically literate

Christians, evangelical Protestants, fundamentalists, Calvinists, were absent from this movement to rescue the life of the unborn, and also even today, from what

I hear, I don't know if you have any different statistics, I hear that the movement to end abortion is still dominated by Roman Catholics.

Why do you think this is? Well, it's convenient for Christians to just turn a blind eye on the one hand and not look into what's actually happening.

But when we're confronted with the reality of the situation, it's difficult to do that.

And I think that it's growing in our day as a result of the left and the pro -choice movement shoving it down our throats even more.

There was a time when abortion was considered safe and legal and rare, and now we live in a day when late -term, even post -birth, abortion is promoted or celebrated.

I live here in Virginia, and our governor was on a radio show within the past couple of months. This is not a governor who doesn't know better.

He is a pediatric neurologist by trade, before being a politician, said, let the baby be born and then decide whether or not to resuscitate it.

Right, right. I mean, that is not safe, legal, and rare.

That is just celebrating the fact that we've taken what God has given, the gift of life, and put it in our own hands and decide what to do with it, whether or not it's convenient or how you feel at that very moment.

But we have to come to grips as Christians that from conception to birth, killing the baby is murder, whether it's the morning after pill, or if it's in the first, second, or third trimester, it is murder.

Just like killing a 3 -year -old or a 93 -year -old is murder. It is life that is made in the image of God, and we do not have the right to snuff it out.

We have been commanded as God's people, you shall not murder. And included in that requirement is not just that we don't commit premeditated murder, the actual intentional taking of a life.

Most of us are going to be okay when it comes to that. But we have to go a bit further and protect our neighbors from as much harm as we can and to do good even to our enemies.

I'm quoting from the Heidelberg Confession of the requirements for Christians that are included in that Sixth Commandment.

We see this played out very well in the parable of the

Good Samaritan. We have the responsibility to do what's necessary to be the

Samaritan in the situation, to come alongside and assist our neighbor and do whatever's necessary, even if it's costly to ourselves, even if there's loss at risk.

We must fight for the life of the preborn. Now, even amongst those of us who are conservative, who believe in biblical inerrancy, who are even

Reformed, like you and I are, who are thoroughgoing Calvinists, as you are probably aware, there is a divide, as there are amongst many issues, there is a divide over how we are to respond to infanticide taking place in our nation.

Some of our brethren believe that churches have the freedom, in fact, some would even go as far as saying that the churches have an obligation to be very much involved in the political arena when it comes to this issue and other issues, such as same -sex marriage and so on.

Others, and some of these men would include, I'm not going to mention names, but men that you and I would consider our friends, you and I have seen them at Bible conferences that we have attended, and perhaps you have even been on the same platform speaking alongside men in our camp theologically who don't believe that a church or a pastor should ever be involved in political activity, a candidate for a man running for office, or a woman, for that matter, who believes in biblical morality and so on.

They believe that individual Christians have the liberty to do such things, but some of them are very adamant that the church, the local congregation, as a unit, as an entity, as a body, should not be involved in those kinds of things.

How do you respond to that? Because it is something that divides people who might even be sitting in the same pew.

Yeah, I agree that they are adamant about it, and I would simply say they're adamantly wrong about it.

I think we have a responsibility to fight for righteousness and for justice on every front where God allows us to.

Now, we're not going to somehow outstrategize them politically or outwit them in our dealings, but we have a responsibility to fight.

We have a young man in our church who's running for Virginia House of Delegates because there's a large portion of the church members who are represented by a guy who is pro -murder of the unborn and pro -LGBTQ+.

And so, as a result, he's running against him to be a biblical voice for the constituents of that district here in southwest

Virginia. We have the responsibility. God has called us to be promoters of righteousness and preachers of the gospel.

To just sit back and allow things to play out and pretend that that's what

God has called us to makes no sense whatsoever. The gospel is to be proclaimed from the rooftops in the valleys.

As we go about, we should be preachers of the gospel and promoting the glad tidings of Christ and promoting righteousness in every way that God allows.

Yes, and the difficulty comes in when even if you agree on political involvement, you have people in the same situation who may be even from our theological background.

They may be closely related to us in their doctrine, perhaps even in the same kind of brotherhood or fellowship or denomination as you and I are in.

But having agreed on political involvement and perhaps even the necessity of political involvement for the church, they disagree on how to do that.

I may even be having a debate on my show between two pro -life, theologically reformed opponents who have very different views on how the government should be used as a tool to bring an end to abortion.

And you have those that are incrementalists who believe that the process needs to be slow.

And you have those that do not want women to be prosecuted if they are guilty of having an abortion, even if it were to be made illegal.

You know, you have all these different things that complicate issues. How does one with wisdom and discernment enter into something like this when there are even opposing views amongst brothers and sisters who agree theologically?

Sure. I think at the end of the day it comes down to what we believe about the Scriptures. Are the Scriptures really sufficient even for these types of issues where well -meaning, good people are on both sides of an issue?

I mean, I personally desire, and I'm working and leading my church in the direction of working for an immediate end to abortion.

I'm not working towards some eventual strategy that maybe my grandkids will get to see abortion regulated more than it is now.

I don't think that it needs to be regulated. I don't think that it needs to be legal.

Therefore, it doesn't need to be regulated. It should be outlawed. It's murder. And that's what we're attempting to promote along the way.

As a result of this, I end up falling into that camp, if you want to call it that, and that kind of division.

I realize it exists at some level. It's unfortunate. But I think the Bible calls us to be, as I've said numerous times already, promoters of righteousness.

And murder is unrighteousness. And we need to call it what it is and seek by all means to bring it to an end.

I'm going to ask you a question from a listener and have you answer it when we return from the break, just to give you some time to think about it.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who asks,

Have you seen the movie Unplanned? I have not yet seen it, and I was wondering if you saw it, if you can recommend it, if you have any criticisms of it.

And I hope to hear your answers. That will be answered by our guest right after this break.

This is our midway break that's longer than our normal breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires a longer break in the middle of our show.

They air our show twice a day in a pre -recorded format. And they air their own commercials and public service announcements to localize

Zion Trump and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida. So therefore, while they are airing their commercials, we are airing ours.

And please be patient with us and use this time wisely. Write down questions for Anthony Mathenia about abortion, or you can ask any other theological question that you'd like.

He is a pastor, and you can ask a pastoral question as well. And please always give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence, and only remain anonymous if it's a personal and private question.

That email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com to send in your question. But also, please write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and more successfully patronize them, because we depend on our advertisers to exist.

So please try to make them happy so they stick around, so that we can stick around. And we're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Hi, I'm Stephan Limblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

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Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

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.nyc. Have a great day. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is Anthony Methenia and he is pastor of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia.

We are discussing their new pro -life ministry, which is Better Than Life, and we will continue our conversation as soon as I let you folks know about some upcoming events that I hope that you take advantage of, some of which

I will be personally attending. And one of them starts tomorrow, and I will be there,

God willing. I'm heading off to Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania tonight, actually, to check into my hotel for the

Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology that's being held tomorrow, Saturday and Sunday.

That's April 26th through the 28th at the Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania.

And the theme is Redemption Accomplished and Applied, the same title as a very priceless book that every

Christian should have their hands on and should have in their libraries and in their memories, written by John Murray, one of the giants of the 20th century as far as the

Reformed faith. But Redemption Accomplished and Applied is the theme of this year's Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology this weekend.

And the speakers include D .A. Carson, Kevin DeYoung, Liam Gallagher, David Murray, and Joe Thorne, and Ian Hamilton.

And if you would like to be there with me, please go to AllianceNet .org,

AllianceNet .org, click on Events, and then scroll down to Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, Redemption Accomplished and Applied.

Please look for me at the Iron Trip and Zion Radio exhibitors booth and greet me. I want to meet as many of my

Iron Trip and Zion Radio listeners as I possibly can this weekend. Then coming up in May, very shortly,

I'll be here before you know it, Thursday, May 23rd from 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, I am going to be having another

Iron Trip and Zion Radio Free Pastors Luncheon. It's going to be held at the

Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall, and it's absolutely free of charge to all men in ministry leadership, whether you are a pastor or an elder, and I believe those are the same office, by the way, a deacon, a power church leader, whatever ministry leadership position you have if you're a man, you are welcome to this free event featuring our guest speaker,

Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. Dr.

Costa will speak on the theme, How the Dead Sea Scrolls Vindicate the Reliability of the

Holy Scriptures. So if you would like to attend this event, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put pastorsluncheon in the subject line. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. And by the way, the majority of the major Christian publishers in the

United States and the United Kingdom have donated many, many, many free books that we are giving away to every man in attendance.

Every publisher donates 100 copies of a title that I select from their catalog so that every man can get a copy of that book for himself.

So each man is going to be leaving with dozens of free books, as many as you care to stuff in a sack.

It's all free of charge. This is a ministry that began by my precious late wife, Julie, in the 1990s, and I have continued it in her memory after she has gone home to be with the

Lord. This was all her idea to treat men in the ministry to a time of fun, fellowship, relaxation, refreshment, hear a good message from a gifted speaker and get a bunch of free gifts and a free lunch.

And there's no hidden agenda or no ulterior motive. My wife made that very clear to me, and I agreed with her 100 % that this was only to be a time where men enjoy themselves and are edified and blessed.

There's nothing for sale there. Everything is free. So if you'd like to go, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's Thursday, May 23, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle, Pennsylvania Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall, Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And after that, I am heading to Long Island for speaking engagements where Dr.

Tony Costa will be preaching and speaking and lecturing, including New Hyde Park Baptist Church in Western Nassau County, Long Island, and including

Wading River Baptist Church in Suffolk County, Long Island, and including

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island.

I almost forgot where their new building is, Coram, Long Island, and also Missio Church in Ridge, New York, in Eastern Suffolk County.

I will give you all the details that you need. If you care to send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and either put Pastor's Lunch or Tony Costa's speaking engagements, whatever you want to put in there so I understand why you're emailing me, and I'll give you all the details that you need.

That's the weekend following the Pastor's Lunch. Then I'm heading right to Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, for the

Banner of Truth East Coast Ministers Conference. In fact, I was thrilled to hear my guest Anthony Mathenia is going to be attending there.

This is going to be held Tuesday through Thursday of next week.

That's May 28th through the 30th,

Tuesday through Thursday. The theme is, I Believe in the Holy Spirit. The speakers include

Jeff Kingswood, Terry Johnson, David Vaughn, Steve Nichols, Michael Morales, and Chad Vegas.

I Believe in the Holy Spirit. That's the East Coast Ministers Conference of the Banner of Truth. If you care to register for this event,

May 28th through the 30th, go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org, and click on Events and scroll down to East Coast Ministers Conference.

This is being held at the Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, and I hope to see you there.

Then, after that, we have coming up the Foundations Conference in New York City, December 19th and the 20th.

I'm also going to be there, God willing. I'm thrilled about it. I already have my hotel booked for this event, thanks to the generosity of Iron Trip and Zion Radio sponsors who enabled me to do that.

Dr. Stephen J. Lawson is on the roster. Paul Washer. Rev. Jeff Thomas, who was my guest yesterday again on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Rev. Armin Tomasian, who I believe is going to be a household name over the next decade. He is an extraordinary young man with gifts and wisdom and discernment and knowledge far beyond his youth.

Write that name down, Armin Tomasian. You are going to be hearing more and more about this powerful preacher.

Richard Caldwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley. I've not yet heard them preach, but since Sermon Audio is conducting this conference,

I'm sure Richard and Andrew are extraordinary speakers as well. So if you'd like to register for this event,

December 19th and 20th, I would register very quickly. Don't wait until December, because the venue can only hold about 200 people or less, actually.

So go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com, and you can register there.

Then, in January, I'm packing my bags again and heading down to Atlanta, Georgia, College Park, to be specific, a suburb of Atlanta, for the

G3 Conference. I just love this conference, and I'm going to be manning an exhibitor's booth there.

It has been such a blessing for me to man booths every year at the G3 Conference. Over 5 ,000 people typically go to this conference.

It's being held Thursday, January 16th, through Saturday, January 18th.

As I said, it's going to be held at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta.

It's on the theme of worship this coming January. Once again, they have an extraordinary lineup of speakers.

Kosti Hinn, who has become a friend of mine, and H -I -N -N, yes, you heard that right,

Kosti Hinn. It may sound familiar to you for a bad reason. Kosti's uncle is

Benny Hinn, the notorious charlatan faith healer. Kosti has repented of his

Word of Faith heresies that he was raised in, and is now a Reformed Baptist and cessationist.

I'm the one that actually told Josh Bice of the G3 Conference about Kosti and urged him to get

Kosti on the roster, and sure enough, that's what he did. Kosti is a really blessed, humble, gifted brother in Christ dedicated to exposing the lies of the

Word of Faith movement. Also on the roster is David Miller, a really gifted preacher.

Derek Thomas, I'm sure that most of my listeners recognize that name.

Powerful preacher. My friend of many years, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Another friend of mine,

Joel Beeky, is going to be speaking there. Josh Bice, who I just mentioned, he is the founder of the

G3 Conference. Paul Washer, who is actually a member of my guest's church. He is going to be there.

My guest, Anthony Methenia, is Paul's pastor. We have

Stephen J. Lawson. There's another conference where he'll be speaking. My friend, Tom Askell, the director of the

Founders Ministries. And Volney Balcom, another powerful, powerful preacher. If you would like to attend the

G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com. g3conference .com Last but not least, if you love

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves. You love sharing the free

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If you need help finding a church home, I have lists of biblically faithful churches from all over the world, and I have helped many listeners in our audience find good churches where they have either become members.

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So as long as you're promoting something that is compatible with what we believe, you don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something compatible with what

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Please give me your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

That's the email address also for our guest today, Anthony Mathenia, chrisorensen at gmail .com.

And we are now back with our discussion with Anthony Mathenia, and he is the pastor, as I said, of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia.

We are discussing his Better Than Life ministry, which is an anti -abortion, pro -life, child -rescuing ministry on the front lines at the abortion clinic or the abortion mill.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisorensen at gmail .com, chrisorensen at gmail .com.

And Anthony, why do you think it is that the Church of Jesus Christ, what are the major flaws within the professed body of Christ in this world that have brought us to a point or have kept us in a point where we have such little impact on our society that millions of babies can be murdered in our midst?

How on earth did Christianity spread so far and wide and take root in places like the

United States, especially where we have so much freedom? How is this possible that this occurred, that so much atrocity and unspeakable horror is happening all around us?

Well, it's a good question. Broadly speaking, generally speaking, we have forsaken the

Word of God and God Himself to the degree that we no longer believe, we haven't practiced the sufficiency of the

Scripture. So we have looked to the political realm, to the government, to businesses, to the medical field, to the biologists of our world with regard to these type issues, rather than looking into the

Word of God and responding appropriately. So we have fallen prey to the media around us and all the voices of our culture, listening, they're all clamoring for our attention, and we have unfortunately listened to them and given them too much credence, rather than listening solely to the

Word of God and what He says in His Word and believing Him and trusting that His Word is sufficient even for our day.

We might even say especially for our day. You know, we, as I keep repeating, you and I are both from a background that embraces what has become nicknamed

Reformed theology, Calvinism, the doctrines of sovereign grace. I think that, and perhaps you could correct me if you think

I'm wrong or just react to what I'm saying, I think the proper belief and response to Calvinism could much more radically transform the nation that we live in and the world that we live in if boldness accompanied our faith to the point where we are really trying to make changes in this world.

Now I know that the way that transformation takes place, primarily according to biblical teaching, is through the salvation of souls through the preaching of the

Gospel. And individuals, when they come to Christ, in great numbers eventually, as the numbers grow, that's when changes will take place.

But we should have a boldness greater than anyone, including greater than our brothers and sisters in Christ who are in error in regarding to the doctrines of grace, who do not believe in them.

Because we know with certainty that the Word of God will not return void.

We know that those whom he intends to save will be saved. And the flip side of that coin that is a danger when these things are misused, when somebody either has become a hyper -Calvinist or, even if they are not theologically, have not reached the extent of hyper -Calvinism, they may just say, well, que sera sera,

God's going to work this out, he's in control. So I am just going to not be too concerned about what happens around me outside the doors of my home.

So you have these two, I think, contrasting and opposite things that occur.

One is when people are truly, correctly, biblically understanding and putting into action the doctrines of grace, they are bold and courageous because they know

God is in control and will accomplish what he intends to accomplish through us, because he uses us as means.

And the other end of the spectrum, as I said, is apathy or indifference because people have either a hyper -Calvinistic view, and even,

I think, ironically, Arminians, many professed Arminians or non -Calvinists, can behave like hyper -Calvinists because they are too cowardly or too worried about the negative consequences that may occur to them in their boldness if they attempted to be so bold.

Am I making sense here? Yes. The fact that God is a sovereign

God and a God of sovereign grace and the Gospel is his power ought to motivate the

Christian to proclaim the truth of God and the glory of his Gospel, believing that that is the way that God has determined to save souls.

So as a result, with great confidence, we preach the Gospel to every creature, knowing that it is the proclamation of that truth that God has determined to bless, to join the truth of his

Word with the power of his Spirit to bring about regeneration in the hearts of individuals. So as a result, those who are truly reformed are going to be believers in God's sovereign grace and are going to be proclaimers of that grace, believing that the power of God will be displayed in the lives of those who hear the preached

Gospel. We unfortunately live in a time in America where the majority of Christians assume wrongly so that the world is just getting worse day by day and eventually

God's going to get tired of it all, watching it all happen, watching us make mistakes, and he's going to come back and rescue the world and rescue us from it.

The Bible is not a pessimistic book. There's a king who is seated on his throne who is ruling and reigning, and he will rule and reign among his people forever, not just one day, but he's ruling and reigning now through the lives of his people.

The Bible's very optimistic. He has won the victory. He has accomplished the work that God sent him to do, and he has been enthroned at the right hand of God most high, where he rules and reigns effortlessly through all the world unknown, the way the hymn writer says it.

And if we as Christians will see him, the glorious one, Christ Jesus, seated there, then we're less likely to be pessimistic and discouraged with regard to the directions of the world because we believe more confidently that he's a king who is seated in his rightful place, on the throne, on high, ruling majestically.

Amen. And I owe a listener an apology. I forgot to repeat her question when

I returned from the break. Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. I asked before the break if you have seen

Unplanned, and if you have, what your thoughts were about it. I have not seen it, and I have thoughts about it, though I have not seen it.

Explain how that's possible. It's possible because I have a lot of friends who have seen it, and the overarching theme that I'm hearing from friends who have seen it is that the film does portray abortion as being wrong.

It does portray some of the graphic realities of abortion, but it's more from the vantage point that it hurts women, and though it does do that, rather than it being wrong because it also kills babies.

Another concerning issue with the film is that Christ is not promoted.

It's not focused on the gospel as being the solution or the remedy to deal with this atrocity in our land.

So as a result, abortion is destructive, but it's more of a man -centered destructiveness rather than it being against God.

Man is harmed in it, I'll agree with that completely, but it's primarily against God, and as a result of that, the gospel is the only solution, the only real conversion that must happen.

It's not that we go from pro -choice to pro -life, but we go from pro -self to pro -God, and that comes through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

That's the only thing that can cleanse a guilty conscience from sin. Amen. Well, I did see the movie, and now that you've said what your friends have told you,

I think that there is definitely truth in that. But I have to say that the idea and the truth that abortion is murder did clearly come through because there is a scene when the key person involved in this story, who was working in the abortion clinic at Planned Parenthood, she is looking at a dismembered fetus that just looks like a very small baby, so it's clear that this is a child.

And in fact, even before that, she is watching through the ultrasound an unborn baby being vacuumed out of the mother's womb, and she could tell, and she's horrified it has to leave the room, because she could tell that a baby is being sucked out of the womb with the vacuum that they use in murdering children.

So there is definitely the clear reality, I think, that this is infanticide.

You're right about the gospel being absent, and this is going to sound like a really weird thing for me to say.

I'm glad that theology didn't come up too much in this particular movie, because the woman who this story belongs to is

Roman Catholic. So obviously, if she is a committed Roman Catholic theologically,

I would not want her giving her understanding of the gospel, which is false, if she indeed agrees with the

Council of Trent's understanding of the gospel. So that's kind of a dilemma. Does that make sense to you?

The thing that's interesting, though, all of the Christians in the movie, or those that are portrayed as being

Christian or pro -life, you could tell that they are being depicted from basically broad evangelicalism.

There's not one scene with a Roman Catholic priest, there's not one scene with a Roman Catholic church, and the only time a person even says the word

Roman Catholic is a person who is pro -abortion, who works for Planned Parenthood, who identifies herself as a

Roman Catholic. So I do want to say that, because I was expecting this to be a heavy Roman Catholic message before I went, but the

Roman Catholic message is absent from the movie. But as far as the most important thing that should be said about this, as you said, is the gospel, that is not in the movie.

So in response to what I just said, Anthony, can things like this be useful if they are not even religious?

I'll give you an example of that. There is a really powerful documentary that I have recommended, it's called

Mafa 21. It's a documentary that is purely involved in the history of Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood and eugenics, and how racism was the seedbed for what came to be the abortion movement, wanting to rid society of blacks and other non -white people by sterilizing women from that category or those categories, or murdering unborn children.

So, I mean, can these things be useful as tools, even if they don't have the gospel? Potentially, but minimally, because it's showing the problem but not offering the solution.

Right. And of course, as you just said, the gospel is the most important thing, that we have to be thinking of primarily to honor

God, to obey God, to proclaim the gospel, and to see individuals come to Christ, and that when this keeps continuing, the transformation,

God willing, will occur. In fact, we have a listener.

We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says,

Your optimism makes me think you could be post -millennial. Are you? I've been accused of that before.

At the end of the day, I call it biblical optimistic amillennialism.

But, yeah, it's not uncommon for me to be accused of post -millennial just because I think that God actually sent his son,

Christ Jesus, to redeem the world, and I think he is the king, and we owe him allegiance. And that's a pretty positive message.

So, as a result, I am often accused of being post -millennial. Yes, and I am an optimistic amillennialist myself.

In fact, if you're wondering what the difference between pessimistic and optimistic amillennialism are, an optimistic amillennialist is an amillennialist, and a pessimistic amillennialist is an amillennialist.

But I don't see a lot of difference between us and the post -mills.

Of course, there are all different kinds of post -mills, but I think that the extent of their optimism about this earth,

I think, extends beyond the scriptures. But I have a lot of friends who are post -mill, who are on the show regularly.

We have to now go into the final break. It's a lot shorter than the last break, so if you would like to send in a question, do so now, because we're rapidly running out of time.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, for am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, Pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528 -5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

God tells us in James 1 -27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

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As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

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I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man,

I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a

Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do, than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750.

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled,

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We are now back with the final ten minutes or so with our guest Anthony Methenia, pastor of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and we have been discussing their new ministry,

Better Than Life, a ministry on the front lines of the abortion clinic. And Anthony, how can our listeners help this new ministry of yours,

Better Than Life? Well, thanks for having me here.

Doing interviews like this is a good opportunity to get the word out with regard to what God has given us.

We want to steward it well. As I mentioned earlier, it's the early days, first couple of months of us seeking to establish this.

The primary need we have right now is for finances to secure the property in the name of the ministry so that we can proceed with doing the legal legwork required to establish a crisis pregnancy center.

And keep in mind, folks, don't forget, this building is right next to Planned Parenthood. Yeah, it's a shared property line.

We're literally right next door to them. So the hope is that we'll be able to intercept the ladies who are coming there for abortion and walk them right over and provide free services and take the opportunity to share the gospel with them as well.

There's a website, betterthanlife .cc, betterthanlife .cc,

will give people just an opportunity to sign up for more information, emails that are going out, but also an opportunity to donate for those who are able to give to the cause.

We appreciate any and all gifts that folks are able to give so that we can continue taking advantage of this wonderful opportunity that God has given us to fight for the lives of the pre -born and to preach the gospel to those who are at the clinic.

betterthanlife .cc. Yes. And we do have an anonymous listener who wants to know, can you give some counsel on the best way to counsel someone on overcoming the guilt and depression that they have from having an abortion in their past, even if they are born again now?

Yes, it is a difficult situation, because we are very outspoken against abortion, and so as a result, there are going to be people who have had abortions in their past who will feel like they're being judged or condemned.

And though it is a sin, it is not the unpardonable sin. There is grace and forgiveness in Christ, even for that sin of taking another human life.

There is forgiveness available, so going to the cross and recognizing that Christ lived and died, shed his own blood for your soul, not so that you can bear that sin yourself for the remainder of your days, but so that he can bear it for you.

He has borne all his people's griefs and sins so that you might live free from the condemnation.

There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, no matter what you are guilty of, he has borne that sin if you've repented and placed your trust in him.

Amen. And of course, one of the great examples of God's mercy and forgiveness is

Saul of Tarsus, who before becoming an apostle of Jesus Christ by the name of Paul, rounded up men and women to be murdered because of their faith in Christ.

So obviously, if God can forgive Paul, and not only forgive him, but use him in an extraordinary way that has benefited every generation of Christians since 2 ,000 years ago, because of the fact that he actually wrote most of the

New Testament through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, if God can forgive and use the apostle

Paul, he can forgive and use mightily a woman who has had an abortion, or perhaps many abortions.

After her repentance, she could be used as a vital tool in warning others about this horrific sin, and also even giving comfort, just as she has been given comfort, knowing that her sins have been forgiven.

Isn't this something that we always have to remember, that we are not going to be useful to God if our past sins keep us in a fetal position, and we are morbidly introspective about them.

Am I right? Yes. And some of the people who have abortions in their past are some of the most powerful people at the abortion clinic doing ministry, warning others not to do that, warning them that they will regret it if they have opportunity to speak from their own experience.

I regret what I did. Please don't go down that path. Please choose life for your baby.

Amen. And we have, let's see, we have

Timothy in West Islip, Long Island, New York, who says, Don't you think that parents of Christian daughters need to be rebuked for ever encouraging or urging or forcing their daughters to get abortions just because they will be embarrassed in the

Church? Yeah, more than rebuked. If they're actually in a real

Church, they need to be Church -disciplined. As a result of that, they're an accomplice in the murder. If they drove their daughter there to have their grandchild murdered, then they're an accomplice to murder, and they will be judged by God, they're condemned by Him already, and they need to be dealt with accordingly, absolutely.

Well, I'd like you now to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today as we go off the air.

Sure. Psalm 63 says, Your lovingkindness is better than life, therefore my lips will praise you.

God has sent His Son into the world. He is the way, the truth, and the life.

There's nothing better than Jesus Christ. We want to be promoters of Him in the home, in the

Church, in the community, in the public square, wherever God has placed us.

We want to be preachers of righteousness, proclaimers of truth, and promoters of Jesus Christ.

And that's what our hope is, that God will allow us to continue doing this at the abortion clinic on the sidewalk and within the

Crisis Pregnancy Center next door as we seek to minister to those who came intending to kill, but they might experience not just life with their pre -born child, but eternal life in Jesus.

Amen. And remember, folks, it's betterthanlife .cc. That's the website you can go to to find out more about this ministry, a ministry on the front lines of the abortion clinic, a ministry of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and their website is

Christchur .ch. That's Christchur .ch.

I want to thank you so much, Anthony and Mathenia, for being my guest today. I hope you hold on the line so I can say a proper goodbye to you off the air.

And I want to thank everybody who listened today, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your life that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. Amen.