February 6, 2023 Show with Alexander Strauch on “Paul’s Vision for the Deacons”

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February`6, 2023 ALEXANDER STRAUCH, who has served in the leadership & teaching ministry of Littleton Bible Chapel of Littleton, CO for nearly 50 years, has taught in more than 25 countries, whose books have been translated into over 30 languages, & who has made an impact on churches globally through the ministry of BiblicalEldership.com, who will address: “PAUL’s VISION for the DEACONS: ASSISTING the ELDERS with the CARE of GOD’s CHURCH”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of Founding Father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
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Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,
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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is
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Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this sixth day of February 2023.
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I am absolutely thrilled to have back on the program by popular demand, Alexander Strauch, who has served in the leadership and teaching ministry of Littleton Bible Chapel of Littleton, Colorado, for nearly 50 years, has taught in more than 25 countries, whose books have been translated into over 30 languages, and who has made an impact on churches globally through the ministry of biblicaleldership .com.
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Today, we are going to be addressing Paul's vision for the deacons assisting the elders with the care of God's church.
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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Alexander Strauch.
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Nice to be with you, Chris, especially talking over the Word of God. Amen. And tell our listeners, for the sake of those especially who have not heard you on this program before, tell them about Littleton Bible Chapel of Littleton, Colorado.
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Well, we're actually three or four churches. The mother church, which is
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I'm at, is about six or seven hundred people. Wonderful congregation. I've been there 52 years.
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And by God's grace, I don't want to brag about this because tomorrow we'll have a split. We've never had a church split or division.
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We've been able to work through all our problems. And it was very simple. We just follow what Jesus said.
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Be humble. Serve one another. Love one another. And you're brothers.
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We just follow what our Lord said. We avoid so many problems when we operate in the flesh.
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It's a very wonderful church. We're a Bible teaching church. We have the Lord's Supper every Sunday. We're run by a body of elders.
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One of the elders is our primary teacher. Teaches three Sundays a month.
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And then one of the other elders teaches. And in about another week, we're going to start the greatest book ever written,
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Romans. Praise God. Yes. What a vital book that has been throughout church history in leading those who were formerly enslaved to false religious systems like the
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Church of Rome into a biblical understanding of justification and salvation, and a very important book indeed.
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If anybody has any... You know... Go ahead. You know, Chris, in training men, the first thing
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I do is they have to master Romans. That's part of their training.
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They've got to know the outline. They've got to be able to follow the outline. They've read a good commentary on it.
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Heard some preachers on it. And if they don't know Romans, well, we can't go farther from there.
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There's the gospel, and there is the Christian life. And it's all condensed in this one amazing book, which tells me is divinely inspired.
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No man could ever write a book like that. Amen. And you are, yourself and also your congregation, is a sovereign grace -believing church.
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Am I correct? You are. You are absolutely correct. It's all of His grace, my brother.
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Amen. If anybody wants more details on this fine congregation pastored by my guest today in Colorado, go to littletonbiblechapel .org,
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littletonbiblechapel .org. And I also want to let our listeners know, after this live program is over,
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I urge you to go to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio website, ironsharpensironradio .com,
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type in the search engine, Strauch, that is the last name of our guest, S -T -R -A -U -C -H, and you will find there an audio link for our previous interview on another monumental work that he has written, biblical eldership, that has been transforming the minds of readers for decades into understanding and embracing the true biblical intention of God for the role of elders in the church.
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And this is another one of those highly misunderstood issues that probably the majority of churches, even evangelical churches, fail in their attempting to pattern their office of elder to a biblical pattern.
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Most churches, in my own experience, especially outside of the
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Reformed faith, fail miserably at how they define elders and how they actually have the elders functioning in their churches as an incorrect way.
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So you've got to not only listen to that program, but get a hold of that book. Now we are moving on to another very important area,
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Paul's vision for the deacons, assisting the elders with the care of God's church. And I'm assuming,
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Alex, that one of the reasons that you wrote that book is because you were experiencing or witnessing the same thing that I just mentioned, a woeful ignorance in churches globally as to the proper role and function of deacons and also the proper candidates, biblically, of who are qualified for that office.
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Am I correct here? Yes, you are. And Chris, it all comes back to believing faithfully the word of the
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Lord. And, you know, I need to tell you that this summer a new, brand new, completely revised biblical eldership will come out.
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It's 35 years old. It needed to be updated. Many churches use it for a textbook.
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So I'm very happy with the new edition. And it's much more exegetical.
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I'm very careful in each. We go through meticulously every text.
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And if the texts of scripture don't convince us, well, I don't have any power to convince anyone of anything.
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So I'm looking forward to it coming out. And the deacons book was out, I think, three years ago.
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It came out, the complete rewrite. Yes, the issue is this. Do we trust our
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Bibles? Is the scripture sufficient to guide us?
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Praise God. Now, you know there's many different views of deacons. In fact, this is a subject of great confusion.
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So in some churches, the deacons are the janitors. They're the people who will tell you they cut the lawn, they put out the trash.
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But why would they have to have these qualifications, which are similar to the elders, to cut the lawn?
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I mean, every believer is to be actively involved in the work of the Lord. First Corinthians 1558.
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Why would they have to be a deacon? Well, then you go down the street and there's another church. Maybe it's the same kind of church, same denomination.
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And the deacons are really the elders of the church, unqualified elders. But they're the elders.
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They're the board of the church. And when the pastor comes, he better make peace with them because they can get rid of him real quickly.
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So there's these different views of deacons, none of them rooted in the scripture.
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So as far as I'm aware, I've read everything in English on deacons. And I read one book that sold in the hundreds of thousands to a certain denomination.
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And at the beginning of this book, the author says, I am going to show you from the
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Bible what a deacon is. I said, this is great. It'll do all the homework for me. Well, when we got to the text of scripture, there was no text of scripture, 25 pages of what a deacon is and not even a quote from the
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Bible. What he told you in those pages is his opinion, his preferences, and what his denomination does.
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And I thought, did this man not see the contradiction? He said, I'm going to show you from the
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Bible what a deacon is. And then when we got to where he showed us, he didn't even quote or even reference.
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He didn't even give a reference. I thought, boy, something's really wrong here.
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So this book is a biblical theology, a biblical exegesis of every word that concerns deacons.
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Now, perhaps we should even start with a biblical definition of the word deacon, even from the
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Koine Greek. And then we can move on to biblical texts that are primarily used as a blueprint for churches, or at least they should be used as a blueprint for churches, when they are having candidates be examined for that very important role in the church.
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Yes, you started at the exactly right place. You have to start, what do we mean by the word deaconos, or deaconoi, the plural?
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Now, a major breakthrough came through in the last 25 years.
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John Collins' book on the deaconate. And then
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Clarence Agin, at his PhD dissertation,
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I believe at Aberdeen, he followed John Collins' research.
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This is all original research. Clarence Agin checked 770 examples over a 500 -year period of the meaning of the word deaconos.
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Now, here was the mistake we were all making. We thought the word deaconos only meant table servant, what these men have shown in hard, cold facts, not opinion.
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You're going to have to deal with the facts. 770 examples that deaconos has four different meanings, depending on context.
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Now, if you know what I mean by BDAG, which is our standard
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Greek lexicon, Bauer Art and Gingrich lexicon, they have gone along with John Collins and Clarence Agin, and they've accepted these fourfold meanings.
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And if you watch the modern commentaries, they also are following this. So we have good evidence.
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We've got the experts who are saying, here are the four meanings of deaconos.
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The first meaning is table attendant, a waiter, a servant, an attendant with the duties of serving food and drink, waiting at table, meal service.
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OK, we all know that. Luke 17, 8, John 2, 9. This use is the most famous and most well -known.
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Second meaning, a domestic attendant, a domestic servant, a slave with the functions of performing a wide range of household activities or attending to the personal needs of a master.
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Matthew 25, 44. John 12, 26. Third meaning, communication or delivery, an officially commissioned messenger, emissary, a courier who delivers a message or an item on behalf of another.
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Look carefully at 2 Corinthians 3, 3. Very clearly used there of Paul saying that his letter was delivered to the saints.
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You can look at Ephesians 3, 7 and 9. Now the fourth meaning, and this is why this is so important,
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Chris. Agency, instrumentality, one who carries out the will of another or a task on behalf of another.
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In many contexts, the idea is that of a subordinate carrying out an assignment of a superior on behalf of that superior, having full authority to execute his ideas.
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Now, this is why this is important. This fourth meaning is the very best translation of Diakonos in 1
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Timothy 3. Now, here's what most of your Bibles do. Most of your Bibles just transliterate the word, deacon.
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But you have to admit, it doesn't mean anything. Deacon doesn't mean anything. You read into that word your denominational's idea.
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It would be much better. There are two Bibles that do translate it as assistant. If we translate
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Diakonos as assistants, we see immediately who the deacons are.
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Whenever the deacons appear, they're always with the overseers.
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So in my book on deacons, I start with the overseers. We have to know who the overseers are.
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They're the ones who watch over. They're the superintendents, the managers, the guardians.
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They have qualifications. Not just anyone can be an overseer.
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When we put chapter 5 of 1 Timothy together with chapter 3, we see that the overseers are the same people called the elders.
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So we first have to know the duties, the work of the overseers.
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Then we can explain the deacons, who are assistants. So this study by Clarence Agent and John Collins, in a sense, has really brought clarity for the first time.
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And again, I want to emphasize, it's hard, cold facts they're giving. Not opinion, not what our denomination does.
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I have checked with many other scholars, and they have no problem with translating it. People like Tom Schreiner, he has no problem translating it as assistant.
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So we immediately know who they are. They assist the overseers, the elders.
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So without getting far afield, let me just very quickly make sure our listeners know the duties of the elders, overseers.
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There's two great passages, Acts 20, 28, where the apostle is speaking directly to the church elders.
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And he tells them the Holy Spirit of God, divine origin, made you, placed you, appointed you, overseers.
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Purpose infinitive, to shepherd, to shepherd the church of God.
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There it is, as clear as you can state it. The same thing is said in 1 Peter 5, verses 1 and 2.
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What is the duty of the elders? Shepherd the church of God. That means four things.
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To shepherd means to feed, protect, lead, and the general care.
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So we know from the apostle Paul and the apostle Peter what the overseers or the elders are to do.
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Teaching is one of their primary core duties because we're gospel people.
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And we have to help people to know the many wonderful sides of the gospel.
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Look at Romans 3, 21 to 421. You'll see these great big giant words, reconciliation, propitiation, justification.
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Oh, it's a wonderful doctrine, the doctrine of the gospel. And that's why we need Romans so much because Romans gives us the whole layout in very orderly fashion.
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All right, so let's first be clear on who the overseers are.
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The deacons, or let's just call them assistants, the assistants assist them.
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Now we have an example of why this is needed. In Acts 6, 4, the apostles were being overburdened by collecting money, distributing money, distributing food to the widows.
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They couldn't handle it anymore. There was injustice. And so they say, let us appoint seven men and let them handle this work.
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And here's why. Chris, this is such an important verse. Every eldership should put this verse on the table when they meet.
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But we will devote ourselves, very strong word, single -mindedly. We will devote ourselves single -mindedly to prayer and the ministry of the word.
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So the elders get very, very busy. They need assistance to help in visitation, in care for physical things, for whatever is needed.
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So the elders can stay very focused on prayer and the word and counseling and instructing the people.
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So who are the deacons? They are the assistants to the elders.
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And that very important and simple phrase has a lot of other very important things attached to it.
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And one of them that immediately comes to mind, because it has to do with something that I just very recently experienced.
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A very dear brother and friend that I've known for decades had a possible crisis that, by the way,
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I just want to let you know, the crisis has disappeared because the church in question, where my friend is an elder, is no longer merging with a group of churches that are egalitarian on the issue of the diaconate.
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But he contacted me to get assistance from folks
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I know who are experts into this area of the diaconate, because, and I just really revealed what the issue was, the church where he is an elder was seriously considering a merger with several other churches that are part of a group of churches, almost like a mini -denomination, if you will, who believed that women are biblically correct candidates for the office of deacon in the church.
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And that was a non -negotiable issue with these other churches that were hoping that my friend's church would merge with them.
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My friend was immediately disturbed by this and wanted to really have it solidified in his mind that this was something prohibited by the scriptures.
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So if you could pick up where I left off there in regard to this being connected specifically to assistance to the elders, if the deacons are assistance to the elders, other things come along with that.
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Now, if you'll follow me carefully here, we'll pick up on what I've just said and show you how the logic of the passage works.
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When you come to chapter three of 1 Timothy, and if you're listening by radio, maybe you want to open your
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Bible because Paul is very logical here and follows his train of thought.
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We read of anyone who aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble work.
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Now, an overseer, one of the qualifications is must be able to teach. Over in chapter five, verse 17, some elders, all elders must be able to teach, but some labor.
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They labor, very strong word, in preaching and teaching. So this is the core responsibility of the elders, preaching and teaching the word of God, the message of God.
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They must guard the message, transition, transmit the message to others.
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2 Timothy 2 .2. Now, if the deacons are the assistance to the overseers.
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Now, I want to say one more thing about this word. I didn't go into it in depth. I just have to say this.
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The word diakonos, when used with his fourth sense, agent, assistant, the word has the meaning in every case with this meaning of over and under.
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In other words, the assistants are over others as agents of those who are over them.
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I don't want to get too complex here. The overseers oversee the church. They oversee the assistants.
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So they're over the deacons. Okay. But the deacons are their agents.
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And they are over those they are charged to help or work with.
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All right. Over, under. Both those ideas are in the word diakonos when used with this fourth meaning.
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They are under the overseers. They are over the people that they are assigned to help. Okay. Now, when you just go back a few verses to chapter two,
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Paul says this. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man.
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Rather, she's to remain quiet. And he goes right back to Adam and Eve. Then he moves next to the overseers who has to be the husband of one wife.
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And who has to have his family in order. So Paul would be contradicting himself if now the assistants to the elders could be women.
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Because they're going to work very closely with the elders. They're going to work under the elders and over others.
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So when people discuss this subject of male and female deacons,
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I tell them first things first. What is the meaning of the word diakonos?
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If it means what I say it means, which is what BDAG says it means, which many, many of our scholars are following.
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We've got two Bible translations that do it as assistant. If they're assistants to the elders,
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I would say you've got an internal contradiction. Women are not to exercise authority over men, but they're in the second highest post in the church, which is the assistants to the overseers.
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So I would just say the basic logic, follow the words, follow the passage, let the passage speak.
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Paul eliminates women from assistants to the elders because they are not to exercise authority.
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Now, I have to remind you that many, many, many, many Christians, many of our dear brothers and sisters are under a great spirit of deception.
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And they think that women can be elders. And they're fighting for that.
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In fact, we may now be in the minority of this. At one time, we were in majority Bible believing
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Christians, but not anymore. Secular society has just taken over and the tsunami has run right over us.
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The secular tsunami has just run right over us. And one of the things you have to compromise on is feminism.
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So people are just not allowing Paul to speak. And in fact,
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I want you to pick up right where you left off when we return from our first commercial break. If anybody would like to ask a question of their own for Alexander Strauch on the diaconate, please email us at chrisarnsen at gmail .com,
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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
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USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
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Let's say you are in a church where you think the deacons in that congregation are not matching what the biblical blueprint mandates for this office.
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Maybe you don't even have deacons. Well, we would understand if this is your own church that you do not want to identify yourself.
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So please feel free to remain anonymous. In fact, if you were speaking about a specific church, we would want you to remain anonymous because out of fairness, we wouldn't want to be talking about a church publicly unless we knew both sides of the story, etc.
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But if you're just asking a general question on this issue about what the
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Bible has to say about the deaconate and also the eldership, although our primary subject today is the deaconate since our guest today is actually primarily known globally for his monumental work on the eldership, we would welcome questions on the eldership too.
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But we're primarily hoping to get questions on the deaconate. Send in your question to chrisarnson at gmail .com.
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chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back right after these messages.
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Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the
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ReformRookie .com podcast and visit our website and the YouTube page. We are dedicated to teaching
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Christian theology from a Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers.
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From Keach's Catechism and the Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the
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Reform Rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.
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And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.
38:56
Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
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New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
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And the NASB is my Bible of choice.
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I'm Pastor Chuck White of the First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the
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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the
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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the
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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the
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James White of Alvin and Megan Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know
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That's PTLBibleRebinding .com. And as many of you have seen in social media,
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This thing is absolutely extraordinary. I shouldn't say thing when I'm talking about the
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Bible. This Bible is absolutely extraordinary. Of course, the Word of God, which is inherent, is always extraordinary, but the leather that is used to rebind this
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Remember, if you want your own Bible rebound, go to PTLBibleRebinding .com,
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Let me know if you want to see a photograph of my own Bible. And we are now back with my guest today,
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Alexandra Strauch. We are talking about a very important theme, Paul's vision for the deacons assisting the elders with the care of God's church.
43:44
If you have a question, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,
43:50
C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.
43:57
Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and we have one of those questions that involves a personal and private matter.
44:06
The church where I am a member, this is an anonymous listener, the church where I am a member has female deacons, but they restrict those female deacons only to the work of servants.
44:19
They have absolutely no authority over men in the church. Is this something that you would approve of because of that fact?
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No, you should just call them women's, for example, in our church, we don't have women deacons, but we have women's ministry, they run
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Bible studies, they do all kinds of mercy ministries to ladies, provide meals, all kinds of mercy ministries.
44:50
We call them women's ministry. What you've just described to me is not a deacon, it's not an assistant to the elders, so you're not describing a biblical deacon.
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I would just say use different terminology, make it very clear that your,
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I don't know what you call them, women deacons, deaconesses, are part of a ministry of the women in the church to do these many mercy ministries.
45:25
I just think you ought to try to watch carefully your vocabulary, your terminology, and again, from what you've told me, you're not describing a biblical deacon, which has to be a man.
45:42
Thank you, Anonymous. If you email me your full name and mailing address, you have received, or I should say you have won, a free copy of Paul's Vision for the
45:54
Deacons Assisting the Elders with the Care of God's Church, compliments of Lewis and Roth Publishing, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,
46:06
who will be shipping that book out to you. Also, let me let you know, if you are a first -time questioner, you have also won a free
46:17
New American Standard Bible on top of that. Compliments. Let me add something,
46:22
Chris, here concerning women deacons.
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Online, on biblical eldership resources, I have a 30 -page paper.
46:36
I didn't want to put it in the book. It was just so big I did a summary of it. I have a 30 -page paper online, free, under biblical eldership resources that goes through all the different views, and then
46:51
I show how once you understand what a biblical deacon is, you cannot have women deacons because Paul just finished saying, just verses before, they are not to take authority over men.
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Deacons have authority over people, men and women. Thanks again,
47:12
Anonymous. And we have another listener from Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.
47:20
And Christian says, One thing that perplexes me is that there are great men of God, still living, some of them, who are strongly promoting the biblical concept of male headship in the church and in the home.
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Some of these might even be accurately described as proponents of patriarchy, and yet they have female deacons because they are servants alone.
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How do we understand that these great Bible exegetes could come up with such ideas if they are not biblical?
47:58
I mean, it's almost the same as the other anonymous question, but he is speaking of,
48:04
I'll even mention it, one of my great heroes of the Christian faith is
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John MacArthur. I love John MacArthur. I disagree with his dispensationalism, but he is one of my favorite authors.
48:16
I love hearing him preach. I love seeing him at conferences. But he has female deacons at Grace Community Church, but they have no authority over men.
48:24
So when it comes to this issue that you've already addressed with our previous listener, how do we confront those, if we ever have contact with them, or at least those that may be advocates of these folks who are also perplexed that their heroes have women deacons?
48:48
Well, you just said you disagreed with one of your heroes about dispensationalism, which is much more serious.
48:54
So our great heroes are all mortals, and we go down through church history, and some of our great heroes have come up with some pretty wild ideas.
49:05
And until we get to heaven and we're with the Lord Jesus Christ, who will give us the perfect interpretation of everything, we have to live with a lot of disagreement over things.
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Now, let me come back to this issue. I deal with this a lot, and it's the same old, same old, same old.
49:22
You just said, Christian just said, they're only servants alone.
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Well, that's not a deacon. That's not a biblical deacon. We come back to the definition of a deacon, assistant to the overseers, not just servants alone.
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Yes, women should be servants in the church. Men should be servants in the church. We should serve one another.
49:46
But that is not the same thing as an official, formal assistant to the overseer, which, listen carefully, must meet the biblical qualifications.
50:00
Do you, with your female servants, actually have an examination of their character, an examination of the biblical qualifications?
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Because 1 Timothy 3 .10 says, and let them be examined first.
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So I find that these churches never actually do a formal evaluation of the qualifications.
50:31
And again, we're just coming back again and again to the same problem. They don't know what a deacon is, which is an assistant to the overseers, and consequently they get off course real quickly.
50:44
So I say this to churches that have women servants called deacons or deaconesses, just call them women's servants or women's ministry, women's mercy ministries, whatever you want to call them.
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That's what they are. They are not biblical deacons. Excellent. Well, Christian, you have -
51:06
In one sense, you don't even have to change anything. Just change the names. But then you need deacons, real deacons, not women's servants.
51:16
Amen. Well, Christian, you have also won a free copy of Paul's vision for the deacons.
51:22
Please provide your full mailing address in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, and it will be shipped out to you, compliments of Lewis and Roth publishers, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Services, who will be actually shipping it to you.
51:37
No cost to you or to us. We're going to our first, or should
51:43
I say, I'm sorry, our midway break. And please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break, as always, is longer than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1
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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the
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FCC requires of them to localize geographically Iron Trip and Zion Radio and all of their programming to Lake City, Florida.
52:09
They do so with their own public service announcements and other local things that they air during this break.
52:16
We simultaneously, on the other hand, air our globally heard commercials.
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So please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you possibly can, provided by our advertisers in their commercials, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers.
52:37
And when you can't patronize them, when you can't do anything like purchase products, use services, or visit churches that are being advertised, at least there's one thing that you can do if you love the show and are grateful that there are people and organizations sharing their wealth with us so that we can remain on the air.
52:58
If you're really grateful for that, thank our advertisers. That's all you need to do if you can't use something that involves money or that you can't physically visit their churches, etc.
53:09
At least contact them and say, thank you so much for sponsoring Iron Trip and Zion Radio. That will go a long way to further ensure that these advertisers will renew their contracts because we require the sponsorship of our advertisers to exist.
53:25
We do not receive enough donations to exist on them alone. So please, contact our advertisers and also send in your emails to Alexander Strauch with a question about this issue of the diaconate to chrisarnson at gmail .com.
53:42
chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away.
53:47
We'll be right back after these messages. Yeah, yeah.
53:55
Back together again. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.
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I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the
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G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.
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I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.
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Back together again. And there's more great news. Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.
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Chris Arnson, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the
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G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God. Make sure you stop by the
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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.
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Go to g3nin .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.
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That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.
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That's l -i -y -f -c dot org. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
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A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
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Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.
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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
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God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a
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God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.
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Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace
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.com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.
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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.
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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.
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Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
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That's 1 -800 -656 -0231. Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Trumpets Iron Radio on the air.
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Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.
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Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider
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Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the
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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised
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That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.
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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
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Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Before I return to Alexander Strauch and our discussion today on Paul's vision for the deacons assisting the elders with the care of God's church,
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I just have a couple of very important announcements to make. If you love this show and you do not want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to IronSharpen'sIronRadio .com,
01:10:06
click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. You can donate with a credit or debit card instantly, and if you prefer snail mail, mailing in a physical check to a physical address, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click
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Support at IronSharpen'sIronRadio .com. If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, whether it's your parachurch ministry, whether it is your business, your private practice like a law firm or a medical firm, or perhaps it's just a special event that you want to promote, well, as long as whatever it is you desire to advertise is compatible with what
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I believe, I would be more than thrilled to help you launch an ad campaign immediately because we need your advertising dollars just as much as we need your donations.
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So please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.
01:11:03
Remember, folks, I never want anybody listening to cut into the money that you have set aside for giving to your own local church where you are a member every
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Lord's Day. Please do not give your own church less money than you're accustomed to giving that church in order to give us a financial gift.
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Never do that. Also, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, wait until you are more financially stable before you send us a financial gift.
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The two things that are clear from Scripture about finances is that you are commanded to support your church and your family.
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Providing for Iron Trump and Zion Radio is not a command, but if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear, and you do have extra money collecting interest in the bank, you do have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, please share some of that money with us if you don't want us to disappear.
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Go to ironsherponsironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a
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Earth you live, I have extensive lists spanning the globe and I may be able to help you find a church no matter where in the world you live, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from your own home, as I have done many times with people in our global audience.
01:12:30
So, if that's you, you do not have a church that is doctrinally solid, you are not a member of a good, biblically faithful church, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:12:44
and put I need a church in the subject line. Lastly, I want you to know about a conference that is being conducted by the dear folks at First Love Ministries.
01:12:57
First Love Ministries also operates First Love Radio who live streams this program every day and they are having their first annual conference
01:13:06
March 3rd through the 5th at the First Baptist Church of Baghdad in Milton, Florida.
01:13:13
The theme is examining the new birth and among the speakers are
01:13:18
Joe Jackowitz, my dear friend, and the founder of First Love Ministries.
01:13:24
If you want more details on this conference which is absolutely free of charge March 3rd through the 5th at First Baptist Church of Baghdad in Milton, Florida go to firstloveministries .org
01:13:36
firstloveministries .org Now, if you want to send in a question to Alexander Strauch, our guest today, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com
01:13:46
chrisarnson at gmail .com As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.
01:13:55
Alexander, we have a question from a listener in Kinross, Scotland and his name is
01:14:03
Murray and he says, would you recommend William Host's Bishops, Priests, and Deacons or has this work now been made redundant?
01:14:14
That's his first question, he has a follow -up question too. Well, I read the book years and years ago and you will get some very good things out of it but I don't think he, what
01:14:25
I remember and maybe I shouldn't even start making this statement because it's been so long since I've read
01:14:31
Host's book I don't think he has the view of assistance to the elders, but I might be wrong on that so I better be careful.
01:14:41
His second question is, in Act 6, the early church was exhorted to seek out men filled with the
01:14:49
Holy Spirit. We read that they succeeded in doing this by choosing Stephen, a man full of faith and the
01:14:57
Holy Spirit. I'm assuming the others that they chose were marked out in the same way.
01:15:02
Is being filled with the Holy Spirit in a discernible way a requirement of deacons today?
01:15:10
Well, first of all, notice that the apostles laid down the qualifications there and what they mean by men full of the
01:15:19
Holy Spirit is full of the characteristics of the Holy Spirit. Galatians chapter 5, the fruits of the
01:15:26
Spirit and then, by the way, that's in contrast to the eight social sins of the flesh.
01:15:34
So, they're talking about spiritual men, men of the Bible, men who characteristics of the fruit of the
01:15:41
Spirit and evidenced by a changed life. Now, we don't have that specific qualification in 1
01:15:52
Timothy 3, but I would say a number of the qualifications could be subsumed under that as a spiritual man.
01:16:02
So, let's take a minute and read those right now and see what the Bible says about the qualifications.
01:16:10
All right. A deacon, likewise, must be dignified. I think a better translation would be respectful or respected,
01:16:18
I mean. He's a person who calls for the respect and admiration of other people.
01:16:25
Well, that's certainly a spiritual man. Not double -tongued. In other words, he doesn't say one thing to one person.
01:16:31
Then, when he talks to someone else, he says something else, which, by the way, could be a temptation of a deacon trying to get in between different parties within the church to say one thing to one party and one thing to another.
01:16:43
In other words, integrity of speech. Not addicted to much wine.
01:16:48
Well, if you're addicted to much wine, you're not going to be a man of the Spirit. You're a man of the wrong Spirit. Not greedy for dishonest gain.
01:16:56
Well, the deacons would have to handle some of the finances of the people and distribute money.
01:17:04
And if there's any greed of heart, well, that's going to be a very, very big temptation.
01:17:10
By the way, I read recently, Chris, that I forget where I read this, that one -third of all churches will experience some kind of theft from people who handle money.
01:17:23
It's a very big temptation. Well, that's a spiritual man who is not attempted to greed.
01:17:30
Now, here's what would be closest to it. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
01:17:39
In other words, their life and their belief matches together. It's not a contradiction, which is a very bad thing.
01:17:48
So that would be a spiritual man, a man of the Spirit, that his life and his beliefs match.
01:17:54
By the way, that's very important because many people are turned off to Christianity by so -called
01:18:00
Christian leaders who life is rather a contradiction to the mystery of the faith.
01:18:08
Let them, now he has a little break in thought here, and let them also be tested or examined first, then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.
01:18:20
So this is something where we very often fail.
01:18:25
We do not properly examine a candidate for the deaconate or the eldership as to their fitness according to the biblical standards.
01:18:38
If there's anything we fail more, it's here. We have this whole nomination process.
01:18:45
I've seen a church go through this just very recently. People nominate someone, and it's never really even considered or talked about, well, do they meet the qualifications of the
01:18:57
Apostle Paul? No, he's a very nice person. He's got a beautiful smile. I like him a lot.
01:19:05
He gives to the church. He shows up at all the meetings. No, that's not what Paul said. He lists some very specific character traits, and they must be able to teach.
01:19:15
Well, in this case here, you don't have to be able to teach, but you must have these character traits of integrity, consistency in the faith, not controlled by alcohol or money.
01:19:27
That's a spiritual man, a man of the spirit. So to you who are listening, when you hear of an elder or deacon appointed in your church, ask, has they been tested first before they're appointed?
01:19:42
Have they proven themselves blameless as to their qualifications? Ask that question, because that's where we fail again and again, and we wind up with unqualified elders, unqualified deacons, and they're there for years, and we wonder why we have so many problems.
01:20:01
Then he goes back. Go ahead, brother. Did you want to say something? No, go ahead. Then he goes back to wives likewise.
01:20:09
My translation, most of your English translations will use wives, which is my opinion, and I explained why earlier.
01:20:16
Wives likewise must be dignified. Same thing said of the deacons.
01:20:22
Not slanderous. In other words, not the gossips going around, yakking about things they shouldn't even talk about.
01:20:29
Very dangerous thing in church. Rumor mongering, gossip, very destructive, very destructive.
01:20:37
Well, a woman whose husband is in this position close to the elders could sure do some damage and tell some stories that she hears from her husband, but sober -minded, faithful in all things.
01:20:48
A good Christian woman who lives the Christian faith. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing his children and own household well.
01:20:58
Now, many people don't get to verse 13. It's a wonderful promise here. And those who serve well, not all deacons, those who serve well, gain a good standing for themselves in the church.
01:21:11
People respect them, honor them, and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
01:21:17
In other words, there's real spiritual victory, growth as a result of being a assistant to the elders and doing a good job.
01:21:29
There's an increase in the person's faith and life in Christ. So, to answer that question, these qualifications could be summarized under what the apostle said, full of the spirit.
01:21:45
Well, thank you, Murray in Kinross, Scotland. Unfortunately, since you live in Scotland, we cannot have a free copy of the book shipped to you because if all of our overseas listeners and listeners in Canada and South America and Central America and other places,
01:22:06
Europe and so on, if they were to have free copies of the books, or would have otherwise won,
01:22:14
I should say, shipped to them, CVBBS .com would go out of business because overseas shipping is astronomical, as you likely know.
01:22:25
But if you know of someone that you love and you would like to have them receive a free gift of this book that we are discussing in the
01:22:36
United States, let us know that person's name and mailing address in the
01:22:42
United States so that they can receive a free copy of Paul's vision for the deacons. And perhaps you know somebody that really needs to read this for some reason or another, that they may be in a church where there is a very faulty view and practice of the diaconate.
01:22:59
Well, just let us know. And once again, I apologize that CVBBS .com cannot ship out anyone this free book overseas or in any area outside of the 50 states of the
01:23:13
United States of America. We have a listener who sent a question in that you actually may have already answered his question because of the way that you translated the text over which he is asking.
01:23:32
But he says, this is Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia, a very faithful, loyal, and generous supporter of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:23:42
There are churches that quote 1 Timothy 3 .11 as a text to justify that women can be deacons or deaconesses.
01:23:53
Can your guest explain why that's not what the text is saying? And once again, let me read that text, 1
01:24:00
Timothy 3 .11. And I am going to read that from the wonderful New American Standard Bible that I have been given as a gift that has been rebound by the ptlbiblerebinding .com.
01:24:28
And that, I'm looking it up. Well, I'm looking it up. I want to give our listeners our email address again.
01:24:35
It's chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:24:41
Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.
01:24:49
And that text says, women must likewise be dignified, not malicious, but temperate, faithful in all things.
01:24:59
And you translated that, wives. So, if you could respond to that nonetheless, is it legitimate to translate that from the
01:25:10
Koine Greek into women more generally than specifically wives of the deacons?
01:25:17
Or does this at all create a problem for us in this text?
01:25:23
Those that are complementarian and believe in sole male headship.
01:25:30
Well, there's no problem in the text, because the text is in a context.
01:25:35
And the context starts in chapter two, not chapter three. And in chapter two, he is talking directly about life in the local church, in the community of believers.
01:25:50
And he is very clear to say in chapter two, verse eight, I desire then that in every place, meaning here, place where Christians meet, the men, the males, it says, should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or quarreling.
01:26:10
In other words, your prayer meeting shouldn't be ruined by contention, and especially anger.
01:26:17
So, when the church gathers in a place, the men are to lead in prayer. Then he turns to the sisters, likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectful apparel, with modesty, self -control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire.
01:26:38
In other words, they don't come as a spiritual show off at the church, causing people to look at them, just distracting the worship, actually.
01:26:51
Okay. Go ahead. No, no, that's all right. You were pausing for a while. I didn't know if you were finished.
01:26:58
No, I just wanted to give our listeners a moment to follow me. If I talk too fast, which
01:27:04
I do talk fast, because I'm from New Jersey. People in New Jersey talk very fast. So I slowed down to protect people from a quick -talking minister of the gospel.
01:27:17
But what is proper for a woman who professes godliness? And what is that, Chris? Godliness with good works.
01:27:25
Let a woman learn quietly with all submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man.
01:27:32
So we are talking about the house of God, 1 Timothy 3 10, the household of God, the church of living
01:27:38
God, the pillar and buttress of the truth. This is how we are to order ourselves.
01:27:44
Then in chapter three, continuing the context, he talks about the overseers of the church, their qualifications.
01:27:55
If you want to be an overseer, it's a very good thing, but you must be qualified. And then immediately after the overseers, he goes to the assistants, and he comments on the wives of the assistants.
01:28:11
Now, this can't be deacons, because you've got an internal conflict.
01:28:18
He just said in the same context, again, let the context rule.
01:28:24
Women are not to take authority over men, but assistants have authority over men, and they work directly under and with the overseers.
01:28:34
I don't think Paul wants women working real closely like that with the overseers.
01:28:40
We know what kind of trouble that could cause. But anyway, if you want more information on this, go to Biblical Eldership Resources, and I have a 30 -page paper in detail going through all the different views showing you grammatically, because a lot of people fight the grammar here, but before you fight the grammar, listen very carefully to what
01:29:06
I'm saying, before you fight with the grammar, which can go either way, the context has already told you deacons are assistants to the elders under and over, and women are not to take authority over men.
01:29:24
There it is. Before you even get to verse 11, you should know the answer, and that's why this question cannot be solved with fighting the grammatical issues and problems in the text, and there's only problems because people don't accept what it says.
01:29:43
Yeah, and to me, it seems like a no -brainer, no insult intended to those who disagree, but when you have, right after the text in question, let's say it is accurately translated in 1
01:30:03
Timothy 3 .11, women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things, the very next verse is, deacons must be the husbands of one wife.
01:30:14
So, it seems odd to me that, and I've heard people say, well, that just means the deacons, if they are men, should be the husbands of one wife, and we should just naturally understand that if it's a woman deacon, that she must be the wife of one husband.
01:30:35
I don't buy that. I mean, is this wording in verse 12 much stronger in the revelation of exclusive male headship than the opponents of that understanding would try to lead us to believe?
01:30:54
That's exactly what I would say. Absolutely. He is contemplating male.
01:31:01
Well, first of all, when you get to verse 8, 8 to 10, there's no reason to think that women are included there at all.
01:31:10
It's only verse 11 where all of a sudden women, and that's one of the arguments against it, it's sort of sandwiched in male deacons, male deacons at verses 8 to 10, and then male deacons at verses 12 on, and then sandwiched, stuck in there someplace, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, we find out there are women deacons.
01:31:34
Okay, Lou, in Sharpsburg, Georgia, guess what? You have also won a free copy of the book that we are discussing,
01:31:42
Paul's Vision for the Deacons, compliments of Lewis and Roth publishers, and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.
01:31:53
So make sure we have your full mailing address so cvbbs .com can ship that excellent book out to you.
01:32:01
We have another anonymous listener, and that anonymous listener says,
01:32:11
I'm remaining anonymous because the church where I am a member disagrees with me on what
01:32:18
I am about to say. I have found that even the most strictly conservative patriarchal churches that are out there that believe in exclusive male headship seem to believe that both the commands for the elders and deacons that they must be good managers of their children and their households is only referring to those that are married and not a command that they be married with children.
01:32:57
They will say that these texts about the husband of one wife are merely teaching us that they are to be a one -woman man and that a single man is a proper candidate for either office.
01:33:15
Where do you stand on this? Because it doesn't seem to make sense to me to allow single men into the eldership or deaconate going by what the text actually says.
01:33:27
That's the issue. What does the text say? And the text does not say must be married.
01:33:33
It has a different kind of statement. He must be a man of this kind of marriage, a one -woman type of man or faithful husband.
01:33:44
So the text actually does not say married, must be married.
01:33:49
Then you go over to 1 Corinthians 7. Paul encourages singleness.
01:33:58
Well, if you have to be married to be an elder and deacon, you just have maybe eliminated some of your best people because he encourages singleness.
01:34:08
And if they're single, they can't be an elder or deacon. So I would say this. The words do not say, the words themselves do not say must be married.
01:34:21
That's a different kind of statement than the husband of one wife, which talks about the character and the relationship with the wife.
01:34:30
So can a single man be an elder? Absolutely. Can a single man be a deacon? Absolutely. Now, people say, well, then how is he going to counsel married people?
01:34:39
He doesn't counsel married people. Yeah, the other elders do that. But he can relate to single people.
01:34:45
But he also may have much more time. And that's why Paul says, encourages singleness.
01:34:51
So I would encourage a man, if he doesn't have to marry, if he doesn't feel he'll marry or burn,
01:34:58
I would say being single will give you a lot of time to serve the Lord. And you can be a real help to the eldership or the deaconship if you're a single man.
01:35:11
Now, let me share with you, I have a similar confusion over this.
01:35:19
Because it seems like a mandated litmus test for a married elder or deacon with children is that it reveals whether they are good managers of their children in their households.
01:35:36
So how does one who is single have that as a litmus test? Well, he still has to manage his home.
01:35:44
Is he in financial debt? Is his place a wreck, a disaster? So I would just simply say you will have.
01:35:54
And what about his relationship with other women as a single man? He could be a womanizer or play with women's emotions.
01:36:03
He would then be eliminated from the office because he is not above reproach in his relationship to other women.
01:36:11
Of course, they should be removed from membership if they don't repent of that. So you have to be careful of saying what it doesn't say.
01:36:24
It doesn't also say you have to have more than one child, children, one child. What if a person only had one child?
01:36:31
Or what if a married couple could never have children? So for example, one of the best elders
01:36:36
I've ever met could never have children. And as a result of not being able to have children, he has dedicated himself at his own expense to being an excellent shepherd elder in his church.
01:36:50
So let's not push the words beyond what they're able to say. So the bottom line is that you agree with our listeners' church rather than our anonymous listener.
01:37:00
Right. I agree with the church that that is not that a single person can serve as an elder.
01:37:07
And if we listen carefully to 1 Corinthians 7, he may be able to serve even in a better way, more time, undivided devotion.
01:37:16
OK, Anonymous. Make sure you give us your full name. Thanks for that good question, by the way. That took us into a nice new area.
01:37:24
Thanks for your question, Anonymous. And give us your full name and mailing address, which obviously will not be disclosed over the air.
01:37:32
And we will have CVVBS .com ship out to you a free copy of this wonderful book by Alexander Strzok that we are discussing,
01:37:40
Paul's Vision for the Deacons, compliments of Lewis and Roth Publishers, and also compliments of CVVBS .com,
01:37:46
who will ship that out to you. We are going to our final break. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.
01:37:53
And before I go to that break, I want to make sure that my guest covers things that he definitely wanted to cover in this interview that we have not yet addressed to make sure that those things are given a good exegesis before we go to any more listener questions.
01:38:15
But still, if you'd like to get in line and send in your question, please send it as quickly as you can because we are rapidly running out of time.
01:38:22
ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.
01:38:29
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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr, pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the
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Alexander Strauch and if you could Alex, list some of the things that you would like to make sure you address before we go off the air that perhaps we didn't mention yet about Paul's vision for the
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Deacons Well, I think we've had some really good questions that really have led us right in the right paths
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I would just want to really emphasize that what the Apostle emphasizes is the qualifications
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When we look at Elders and Deacons the one matter that is most clearly laid out for us
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I wish other things were laid out but he doesn't do that and we accept that that the
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Lord gives us the freedom in those areas that he doesn't prescribe but what he is so clear about is the character of those who lead his people
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God is very interested in that and we should not have
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Elders or Deacons who are not qualified according to the biblical qualifications or requirements and so that's what
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I would like to emphasize When a Deacon is brought however your church does it brought before the congregation or before the
01:56:26
Elders we want to make sure that we've examined them first and then let them serve if they prove themselves above reproach so that's the pattern and that's what
01:56:43
Paul is interested in and then one more thing verse 13 is very clear that there is a reward for those who serve well as Deacons it's a wonderful thing to assist the
01:56:57
Elders in caring for the Lord's people serving the
01:57:02
Lord's people by the way that's why you have to have these qualifications because the wrong people will do damage to people so there is the recognition by the congregation the honor by the congregation that you are a servant you are a helper an aid to your
01:57:28
Elders and to the local church and then there is an increase in one's faith the confidence that one has in his beliefs and faith in other words there will be spiritual growth in a person who serves in this way so those are the two closing things maybe
01:57:46
Chris you want to direct me in another direction well we have two more anonymous listener questions that I'm just going to have to combine them and have a very brief answer from you because we're running out of time one of them is saying have you ever run into churches that actually elevate the authority of the
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Deacons over the pastor which this person believes is very wrong and the other question actually the other question was already answered by you so you could just go to that first one oh yes many churches in many
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Baptist churches the Deacons are the real power brokers and if the person they bring in as the pastor doesn't make peace with them that pastor will not last long and so the
01:58:40
Deacons can be a very powerful group in the church run sort of like a board and they're really acting as if they're elders but they're not elders so where's the elders?
01:58:55
right so that's wrong we're out of time brother we are out of time I'm sorry please go to BiblicalEldership .com
01:59:02
for more information about our guest's ministry you could also go to his church website littletonbiblechapel .org
01:59:12
littletonbiblechapel .org and of course go to the Lewis and Roth Publishers website who published this book we've been addressing lewisandroth .com
01:59:22
and that's spelled L -E -W -I -S androth .com thank you so much brother
01:59:28
Strauch I eagerly look forward to your frequent return to this program you always prove to be such a superb guest
01:59:34
I want to thank everybody who listened I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives Jesus Christ is a far greater