Keep sharing good news without ads.
The GOSPEL of THE REFORMATION
with our guest:
DR. WILLIAM WEBSTER of Christian Resources
Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's.
Our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this fifth day of August 2015, and I'm very excited about today's guest because he's a dear friend who's been with me through thick and thin and been with me and supported me and encouraged me and comforted me during some very serious and dark trials in my life, and he is also a brilliant theologian and historian, a prolific writer, and a phenomenal speaker that I highly recommend that you not only purchase his books and his recordings of messages but also I eagerly urge you to invite him to speak at your church, power church ministry, or other venue.
His name is Dr. William Webster, apologist, pastor, author, and founder of Christian Resources, and the website for that ministry is christiantruth .com, and he has written a number of books which include Behold Your King, Prophetic Proofs that Jesus is the Messiah, Holy Scripture, the Ground and Pillar of Our Faith, which is a monumental, groundbreaking three-volume set that he co-authored with our mutual friend David King on the historicity of sola scriptura in the patristic age before the Reformation, proof that the church fathers, many of them, believed in the principle of sola scriptura, that scripture is the sole infallible and inerrant rule of the faith, but before the Reformation ever occurred.
He's also the author of Saving Faith, How Does Rome Define It?, The Christian Following Jesus as Lord, Must Jesus be Lord to be Savior?, The Matthew 16 Controversy, Peter and the Rock, The Old Testament Canon and the Apocrypha, The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, and also the book that we are discussing today, The Gospel of the Reformation, Salvation from the Guilt and Power of Sin, and that's a keyword that we're going to find out why in a little bit, Salvation from the Guilt and Power of Sin.
It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, but for the first time.
On the all-new Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr. William Webster. Hi Chris, thanks for having me on.
And since you have been awarded your doctorate from Whitfield Theological Seminary, am I the.
Very first person to publicly announce you as Dr. William Webster? Yeah, yeah you are.
Is that anticlimactic that I am the one that was the first? Tell us something before we even go into this very deep and weighty discussion for the next two hours. Give us some information about the church where you pastor in Battleground, Washington, and also about your ministry.
Christian Resources.
Well, I have a church here in Battleground, Washington. Battleground, Oregon, the people, it was out of a commitment and a desire, and now a committed way back then ecumenically for evangelicals to move back into the Roman Catholic Church.
And the problem that I had with that is that it studied the Word of God, that the mission was an absolute essential, it was a necessity, came out of the teaching of that foundation. And as I studied, I thought it would be audiotapes into church history and demonstrating that that's not all negative,.
And then how to live it. Well, I know that this is not the subject of your book, but I did want you to just touch briefly on perhaps a little bit more deep description of your three-volume monumental groundbreaking work that you co-authored with our dear friend David King, Holy Scripture, the Ground and Pillar of Our Faith, which, as I mentioned earlier, shows patristic evidence that the church believed in the doctrine of sola scriptura, even if not by that name, long prior to the Protestant Reformation.
This was not an invention of Martin Luther and the Reformers. And I understand that this three-volume set, one of the reasons why it's such a groundbreaking work is that much of it was translated into English for the first time.
And the thing that I found interesting is that at least for the first several years after it was in print, I don't recall any Roman Catholic apologists having any meaningful response to it. So if you could just touch on that before we go.
Into our main subject today. Well, the book, if you deal with these issues from an historical standpoint, you realize that when one is the issue of authority, the other is the issue of both taking place.
And the foundation to that revival was incredibly bold and brave men standing up to proclaim the truth of the word of God and the ultimate of that word over men, over every institution, that there is no organization, there is no individual who was in that day of the truth.
And these men proclaim with great boldness and the ultimate authority of the word of God. But what's interesting is as you go back into the history of the Church, what you find is that that is precisely the view.
It's a universal view. Sola Scriptura is the universal patristic view of the Church Fathers throughout their history. Development of tradition from a Roman Catholic perspective is really Gnostic in origin in terms of its view of oral tradition as a second vehicle of revelation, with authority equal to the written word of God.
And it is out of that that you find so much error within Roman Catholicism. But what I wanted to do was to look at this from an historical standpoint to show the continuity between what the Reformation teaches, what the Reformation taught, and what those who are true to the history of the Reformation in our own day, why we stand upon the ultimate authority of the word of God, because you go back in a continuity right into the ultimate writing of those scriptures.
That is the foundation to everything. It is the ultimate authority over us, over every institution. It's the foundation for every ministry, revelation of the true and living God to us. And that is how the Church began, and that is how the Church lived for centuries.
Now, of course, Roman Catholics may be listening and chuckling and saying,.
This guy claims to believe in scripture alone as his inherent authority, and yet the title of his book is flawed because the Bible says that the Church is the ground and pillar of our faith. And here he's saying that scripture is.
Now, where did that title come from?
That title comes from a quote from Irenaeus, Church father in the second century.
Yeah, that's why I wanted you to say it.
He basically states that the truth of the gospel is complete. That is oral.
Yeah, and since this is the primary issue that Rome attacks, especially when you're coming from the apologetic realm, obviously your average Catholics don't necessarily do that, but that is the key issue.
Sola Scriptura, probably even more so than Sola Fide in many ways, that they go on the attack with, against, because of the fact that they claim that there's zero evidence from history that Christians believed in Sola Scriptura, or that scripture alone is the sole infallible authority of the Church, and that the Bible clearly doesn't teach it in their minds, and you certainly believe that they are very wrong on both points.
Oh, totally wrong. Thomas Aquinas makes the statement, Sola Canonica Scriptura es Regula Fide, that's Latin for canonical scripture alone, and that's the 13th century.
Wow, wow, that's something. Well, that is not our subject today, but I do want to urge everybody who is listening to order that at christiantruth .com, christiantruth .com. You can also order all of William's books from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Services, which is one of our sponsors.
Their website is cvbbs .com, that's C-V for Cumberland Valley, B-B-S for biblebookservice .com. They already have a number of Bill's books in stock, and they can easily order them, and I'm sure Bill doesn't mind when people order your books from other sources because they still have to order from you to get the books, right?
Right. And of course, C-V-B-B-S is one of our sponsors, as is Solid Ground Christian Books, which is solid-ground-books .com, solid-ground-books .com, and I want to announce that the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books is my guest on Friday.
But I am very enthusiastic about today's subject, which is the Gospel of the Reformation, and perhaps you Roman Catholic listeners who are tired of hearing Iron Sharpens Iron beat up on Roman Catholics, which we don't actually do that, but many have caricatured this program that way, and me that way, which is why it was ironic that I got some complaint about my interview with Robertson Janis.
But anyway, today's subject is the Gospel of the Reformation, Salvation from the Guilt and Power of Sin, and before I even go into the questioning specifically about this book, I just have to read John MacArthur, a quote from the foreword that John MacArthur wrote for the book.
I recommend this book to anyone, Catholic and Protestant alike, who wants to have a clearer understanding of Gospel truth. As you read this work, may your spiritual eyes be opened as never before to the bright light of the Gospel of God's grace.
That's some powerful endorsement by a very prominent figure and highly respected brother in Christ like John MacArthur, and that is just one sentence out of his foreword to the Gospel of the Reformation, Salvation from the Guilt and Power of Sin, and the reason why I told our Roman Catholic friends listening that they need not worry that we're going to necessarily focus on them and their heresies.
This book was largely written, was it not, to correct the departure of the evangelical church from our own history.
And from our Reformed forefathers in the faith. It is. I have, obviously, a great desire. That's my heresy. It's historical truth and biblical truth. But I am equally as concerned for the Gospel that is represented by present-day evangelicalism, and I do believe with all my heart that one of the greatest needs today in the church is for a new Reformation.
Only this time it needs to be to the evangelical church, because I believe in a proclamation not only from the New Testament, but from the teaching.
Of Jesus Christ in the Gospels. And I understand that you've already written a couple of books that may touch on the subject of the Gospel of the Reformation. You have written, The Christian Following Jesus as Lord, and Must Jesus be Lord to be Savior?
How is the Gospel of the Reformation different from those books which touch on some of the same issues?
What is the Christian life? And obviously, the church, you know Christ, and to salvation, lack of understanding of what real salvation means. Justification, and that gets into the whole issue then of and the sufficiency of that work to deal with the loss of Calvary, with Him as Lord.
And what I'm trying to demonstrate is that the teaching of Jesus to men to enter into a radical, transformational, commitment relationship with Him as Lord. And as you get into the exegesis of those passages where He deals with a call to men to become a disciple, that's the ending of what He's calling men to.
You understand why there is such a difference between what He teaches and what is taught in the evangelical church today, because what the evangelical church today has done is redefine what Jesus teaches.
So that becoming a disciple and submitting to Him as Lord is a secondary issue. It is not a primary issue for entering the kingdom. That has not taken place. A man does not know Him, and not a disciple, where your life has been submitted to Him as Lord.
It is as Lord that He saves, and it is that issue you were mentioning a minute ago with the subtitle of the book, from the Gospel of the Reformation. He not only saves from the guilt of sin, and that's worthy to define in terms of the application of salvation and the understanding of what saving faith means in relationship to repentance, and then also demonstrating that the Reformers never taught by simply believing and not have a transformation of heart and life, and be a sanctified man or woman.
And I want to give our email address if you have a question for Dr. William Webster. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.
And I have some good news for you, if you're listening. The first four people who email us a question that is good enough to be read on air, that is actually related to the subject we're speaking about, you'll receive compliments of The Banner of Truth, the Carlisle, Pennsylvania office.
You'll receive a free copy of one of Dr. Webster's other books, The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, which is a book I mentioned earlier in my announcements. It is a powerful book. It is a book that you need to own and read and reread and give away, especially if you have Roman Catholic family, friends, neighbors, and loved ones.
And this is a mind-blowing book that will, I'm sure, even educate not only Roman Catholics, but evangelicals who don't even realize how truly evangelical the Catholic Church with a small c was in its ancient history, and that many of the practices of Rome for the last five, six, seven centuries, many of them are manufactured inventions of men that have no place not only in the Bible, but even in church history.
And so, if you have a question that is relative to our subject and it's good enough to be read on air, you'll receive a free copy of that book, Compliments of Banner of Truth, and please so include your mailing address if you're sending in a question on today's subject, which is The Gospel of the Reformation.
And since the word gospel is the first word in the title, it's the second word if you include the, if you could define the gospel for us, I think that that would be an excellent way to set the pace for the rest of the interview.
Well, the gospel,.
The word gospel means the message. The gospel is, and the issue then has to do where you will be in eternity. That's why this is such an incredibly important issue. There's nothing than getting this right and understanding this, because ultimately the only thing that matters when a man dies, and we're all going to die unless Christ returns and we are then translated by him to be with him in eternity.
The only thing that matters in that day is whether a person knows Christ. In all of life, everything that we're engaged in in this life, and not that there are other things that are not important, but nothing, absolutely nothing can begin to approach this in importance because this is dealing with eternity.
And it's basically the truth of who God is, the law of God that he has given to reveal to us the purpose for our existence, the reality of our state of being. We need reconciliation with him, and that he has provided that way of reconciliation of salvation in his son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the one who is God and man, through his person and his work that he has accomplished to deal with our sin, to deliver us from that sin and from the eternal consequences of that sin, and to bring us in to truly know him.
We become one with the true and living God in Jesus Christ, and our lives are transformed by his grace. The scriptures represent the incredible miracle of salvation as being nothing less than a man being raised from the dead, his blind eyes being opened, and receiving an entirely new life in the Lord Jesus Christ, and having the hope, the absolute certainty of eternity, eternal life, in the age that is to come when Jesus Christ comes to inaugurate that eternal age.
But that gospel is a message from God, it's authoritative, it is given by him in his word, and it needs it because it is the gospel by which men are saved. And if that is distorted in any way, it will result in false assurance given to men that they know God, that they know Christ, that they have salvation when they do not.
And that's why this is so important to clarify and to understand.
We're going to be going to a break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,. Chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.
Please include your address, and by the way, I have to make another disclaimer here as far as the free books. I'm sorry to my overseas listeners and Canadian listeners that this offer is only being made to residents of the United States because of our sponsor who is shipping these books out at no cost to Iron Sharpens Iron.
They cannot accumulate a gigantic overseas shipping bill because we are more and more frequently giving away free books. But we do encourage anybody from overseas to send in a question anyway. We've been enjoying getting questions from you from all over the world, and we look forward to getting those and our Canadian friends as well.
Chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And remember, the first four that we read on the air that are related to our topic will receive a free copy of William Webster's book, The Church of Rome at the Bar of History.
We're going to be right back after these messages with more on our discussion on the Gospel of the Reformation, and so we urge you not to go away. Tell your family,.
Friends, and loved ones about the interview during the break. Thriven Financial is pleased to support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. While others see money as a goal, Thriven sees it as a tool for serving God, family, and community.
For more than a century, Thriven has helped its nearly two and a half million Christian members make financial decisions that reflect their values, while also helping them live generously. Find out more by contacting me, Mike Gallagher, at 717 -254 -6433.
Thriven Financial, connecting faith and finances for good.
We know we were made for so much more than all that.
Lending faith, finances, and generosity. That's the Thriven story.
I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in-depth study. Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.
The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASB is known for. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues.
From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com. Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com.
Tired of bop store Christianity? Of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching?
Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island. Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.
And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times. 631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns.
And if you've just tuned us in, my guest today is Dr. William Webster, the founder of Christian Resources. His website is christiantruth .com, christiantruth .com. Dr. Webster is an apologist, pastor, author, and he is our guest today speaking about his book, The Gospel of the Reformation, Salvation from the Guilt and Power of Sin.
And it's that word power that seems to be the most missing aspect of the evangelical gospel in our modern age. And if you have a question, we've already got a couple of questions waiting for us. But if you have a question regarding the topic that we are discussing, email that to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
And before I move on to some of our audience questions, Bill, if you could, one of the things that confuses the issue is that it seems to me that both the Church of Rome and the modern evangelical church, they both blur things involved that are under the umbrella of salvation, if you will.
The Catholic Church blurs things together in their own way involving faith and works, and the evangelicals blur things in their own way in regard to regeneration and salvation and so on, where they don't adequately or rightly separate these terms that are under the umbrella of salvation.
Maybe you could go into that for a little bit. First of all, am I correct in that.
Analysis? You are. As you go through, I don't know how many people have actually read the Council of Trent and that extremely important Roman Catholic document. The council in the 16th century that was the definitive answer to the Reformation.
You will find theologically, as you go through that, as they define what the issues of salvation are and what salvation means, theological distinctives, specifically with respect to justification and sanctification, for example, and regeneration.
In Roman Catholic prejudice, actual teaching of the Word of God with respect to justification, Roman Catholicism has declared anathema. It has condemned us with respect to justification, meaning that we are not justified formally, it says in Canon 10 on justification.
We are not formally justified by the righteousness of Christ himself. That the righteousness whereby we are justified is actually the believer, where the believer cooperates with grace that has been infused within him through the church and its sacraments and priesthood, and that the individual then is given the ability to do works of sanctification, which become the basis of justification.
It is all related to merit, that it is by grace that a man works in order to merit his eternal life. Jesus did not accomplish a full and finished eternal work, a sufficient work at the cross of Calvary.
What he did was he purchased for us the grace of salvation, which is then channeled to the individual through the church and her sacraments, and then it is by that grace that an individual cooperates with that grace in order to save himself, is what it comes down to.
So that it is under the rubric of grace, what you're bringing in the back door is legalism. Salvation ultimately is all about you and your works. Uh, Jesus helps you save yourself. That is a very much a blurring of the distinctive of what justification means in the New Testament and the Old Testament, because justification is not equated to sanctification.
The two, the Catholic theology justification is equal to sanctification. It is not a separate, distinct work accomplished by Jesus Christ that is sufficient and complete righteousness through his fulfilling of the law on our behalf.
That is a work that is done independent of anything we could ever do. There is absolutely nothing that any man can do to justify himself outside of Christ, or even in Christ. We could never justify ourselves before God because God demands perfection, absolute perfection in obedience to the law of God.
And if you don't have absolute perfection, all you can look forward to is the judgment of God. The soul that sins shall die. Therefore, that's why it is salvation is by faith alone, by grace alone, in Christ alone.
He alone has accomplished that work of justification on our behalf. That's why justification is a gift of God. It is not a process. It is not based on our works. It's based on the work of Christ. He alone merits that justification.
But because of that blurring where the term justification is equated with sanctification, and there's a denial, a condemnation even, of the truth of imputed righteousness, that in Christ, we are given as a gift a righteousness that is perfect, that justifies us for all eternity.
Instantly, the moment a man is in union with Christ, he is instantaneously, and for all eternity, justified, involved in that at all. There are no works, because obviously, as we'll talk about here in a little bit, sanctification is the fruit of that relationship with Christ.
You cannot be justified and not be sanctified, because the same Christ who justifies also sanctifies. And if I'm not sanctified, I've never known him. I'm not justified. So these truths go together, but they need to be distinguished, because they are separate works of the work of salvation accomplished by Jesus Christ.
But that work of justification is not equated to sanctification. They are two separate works. The evangelical church has blurred the true meaning of the gospel as well in a different way. Rome, the Roman Catholic Church, basically is legalistic in its approach.
On the other side, the other extreme, you have the evangelical church, where you have the problem of antinomianism. One point that I would make is if you have a legalistic system, such as you have with Rome, wherever you have a promotion of legalism, you will always end up with antinomianism.
Even though you have men who are religious and moral, they are still antinomian, because the only way to be delivered from an antinomian state, which is what we are in sin, is to truly know Christ. And if I have not repudiated legalism, and I am somehow holding on to the hope that I can somehow merit, even by the grace of God, my salvation, and it's not Christ alone, then I cannot know him.
And therefore, I will be an antinomian, even with the legalism. The other side of that is that you have the evangelical church coming out of the Reformation with sola fide, and the understanding of justification is not by works.
But what happens here is a diminishing of the understanding that Christ is not only a deliverer from guilt and the consequences of sin, from an eternal hell, that our justification before God is based upon his person, his work, and the righteousness imputed to us as a gift.
But that he not only will deal with the guilt of sin, but he also deals with the power and the dominion and the state of sin, so that a man in salvation is not only justified in coming to Christ and knowing him, he is also regenerated.
He has a new heart and life, and he is sanctified. He is set apart to God. He has repented of sin, and he has come into a relationship with the living, risen Lord of glory. He transforms that life. That's what Romans 6 is all about.
How should we who have died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized death? If we've been baptized into his death, we've been raised up with him in the likeness of his resurrection, that we would walk in newness of life to be slaves of righteousness.
Knowing Christ, this is the major issue within evangelicalism. So much of what we've done is we have taken his teachings on discipleship, and we have completely distorted what he teaches, so that it's not necessary that an individual in coming to him be a disciple.
Saving faith has nothing to do with that kind of commitment. I would say within evangelicalism today, that is the absolute dominant view that discipleship is a separate work that applies only. He commanded that we go into all the world and make disciples, and to say that making a disciple means you baptize, you know, make a disciple of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you in the Gospels, and the one who was at the end, that he is Lord, that he is God, and that when he calls men, and just for example in Mark 8, if any man wishes to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.
So that is a call to conversion. Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, so we'll save it, which is in the context of us and follow him. That word lose is the Greek word apollon, from the authentic self is at the center of their life, so turning from that rebellion against God, person does not know Christ, he will perish.
And that's where in the evangelical church, we've got justification, not by works, and that radical was sin, in my rebellion against God, so that I understand unto the Lord Jesus Christ, I am turning from a lawless antinomian, give him my heart, and my life.
And as John Calvin says, if you want to know, possess Christ, and you cannot possess Christ, vocation. And that's what this is all about, it's all about trip with God, and in my relationship to his will and my behavior, to submit my life to Christ as Lord, to be his disciple, and to become his slave.
One of the other ways that many evangelicals.
Today blur things together, when it comes to the whole issue of the umbrella issue of salvation, is they'll equate election with regeneration, or being born again. And the non-Calvinist will say, you know, you're elect by believing, that's what makes you elect, and they therefore are putting the whole issue of being one of the elect of God, in the power of the will of man.
Am I right on.
That? Well, you've got two issues here, you've got, it's very clear from the word of God, you cannot read Romans 9, and come to any other conclusion, than the fact that God is a sovereign God. That man is dead in sin, there is absolutely no hope for any man, apart from the sovereign grace of God, to open his eyes to see, and his ears to hear, and to give him that grace, because faith and repentance are gifts of God.
The power of God, of God, to salvation. And Ephesians talks about man dead in sin, hopeless and helpless, he says, but God being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in sin, raised us up with Christ, and united us with him, raised us up from the dead.
Well, you know, you could speak to Lazarus in the grave, from here to eternity. Lazarus isn't coming out of that grave, Christ calls him forth, and he will then be brought forth, so yes, election is an absolute certainty, but you always have to keep that in balance, because you have the two truths that go together, as you read in Romans 9, election, Romans 10, has to do with human responsibility, so that where God uses his gospel, he is sovereign in saving men, he saves men by the power of that, of his power, mediated through the proclamation of that gospel, but men are responsible to respond in faith and repentance to the call of that gospel, and that's a mystery.
So where I think, I think where some in the reform camp tend to get into an extreme is where they put all the emphasis on election, and they fail to call men appropriately to human responsibility, to turn from sin, and to turn to Christ in faith.
There's not a real preaching of the gospel to men. On the other hand, you have those within the Armenian camp who put all the emphasis on man, and quite honestly, what they do is they dilute the truth of what that response to God is to be, and in both cases, you can end up with men who profess, who have a form of Christianity, but who do not truly know the Lord.
You've got to keep these things in balance. Men who think that they can save themselves by their faith, they are terribly misguided. You come to Christ with empty hands. You do come in faith, but you come in the realization of utter poverty of spirit.
You have absolutely no ability, you have nothing that you can do to save yourself. It is Christ alone who can save. So the focus is on Christ, and the promise of God of what He will do to the man, for the man or the woman who truly comes to Him in repentance and faith.
Yeah, they are putting their faith in their faith, not in the source of salvation who is Jesus.
Christ. That is a problem. It can be a problem. I would say that, I don't know that, you can't broad brush this. I mean, there are Armenians who would put their faith in their faith. You can't say that would never take place, but on the other side of that, who are genuinely in their faith at all, they realize that their faith is not meritorious in any way.
I know them, and they are genuinely converted. I know, obviously, people in the Reported, they know, and you've always got to have the balance. Your faith is in Christ. If you come to Christ in the way that He has said to come to Christ, you will know eternal salvation.
Yeah, and there are even, even though.
It would be a minority, a tiny minority in the church today, but there are even hyper-Calvinists among the primitive Baptists, for instance, and I don't want to broad brush them either, but who equate or blur the distinction between election and regeneration to such the point where they don't believe that all whom God has elected will come to saving faith, and that's just absolutely heresy and is even, perhaps even more dangerous than any Armenian heresy, correct?
Yeah, I mean, the hyper-Calvinist is just blatantly... Yeah, they're really hypo-Calvinist.
In some ways, because they're really teaching less. They don't seem to believe, at least this segment of hyper-Calvinists, because there are differences between some of them, but they are denying the perseverance of the saints, or even the effectual call in their lack of completing.
The story about what God will certainly do to all He elects. Yeah, but just to remember, I mean, there's a mystery in all of this. We are told what to preach to men, and what we preach to men is the gospel.
You hold Christ teaching up before men, the New Testament teaching before men of what it means to know the Lord Jesus Christ and to call men into that relationship with Him. God will use His Word. As you preach the Word of God, as you teach the Word of God, your confidence, if you truly understand the Word of God, is not in men to respond.
Your confidence... God told Ezekiel that valley of vision, the valley of dry bones, and the question he asked him, can these bones live? Well, from a human perspective, no. I mean, they're dead. They're bones.
And he's just preaching the living God and the love and the life relationship with and that is our hope. We have to go to a break right now, and we will get to all of you who.
Have been patiently waiting, who have sent in emails with questions. I believe that we have room for at least one more winner. If you want to send in an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and please include your address so we can ship you out a free copy of The Gospel of the Reformation, Salvation from the Guilt and Power of Sin.
And we urge you, even if you're overseas, even though you can't win a book, we'd love to hear from you with a question anyway for our guest, Dr. William Webster. We're going to be right back after.
These messages, so don't go away. It's easy to put off saving for retirement, but it's just as easy to start. Once you do, you'll feel more confident about your future. So where to begin? Start with Thriving Financial.
They'll help you define your financial goals and take realistic steps to help you reach them. It comes down to making wise choices about money, because even small steps add up. Contact me, Mike Gallagher, at 717 -254 -6433.
Licensed agent producer of Thriving Financial, marketing name Thriving Financial, registered representative of Thriving Investment.
Management Incorporated, Thriving .com. Lending faith, finances, and generosity.
That's the Thriving story.
Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.
It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant. It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.
We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ.
In fellowship, play, and together. Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be. Call Lynbrook Baptist at.
516 -599 -9402, that's 516 -599 -9402, or visit lynbrookbaptist .org, that's lynbrookbaptist .org.
Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. William Webster, apologist, pastor, author, and the founder of Christian Resources. Their website is christiantruth .com, christiantruth .com.
We're discussing Bill's book, The Gospel of the Reformation, Salvation from the Guilt and Power of Sin, and we have been addressing that the aspect of being saved from the power of sin has been the issue most sorely lacking in the evangelical gospel of our modern day, and we do have a listener in White Plains, New York, Bob, who writes, if I'm a Christian, I am covered by God's covenant with Abraham.
Is my family covered and saved as well, or are they just sanctified and not justified? That's an excellent question because it's actually very relative to our topic, I believe, Bill, not in the sense that this would involve a modern evangelical heresy, but it does have a fairly old heresy attached to it called presumptive regeneration, where people believe that they are truly Christian just because they have been perhaps baptized in a Christian home, have Christian parents and Christian grandparents, and nominal Christianity, or Christianity in name only, dead, lifeless, false Christianity has spread rampantly globally, and you will have even churches that may have some semblance of theological truth, but the walls of the church are filled with dead men's bones, if you will.
If you could comment on Bob's specific question.
Well, that's a good question, because he takes us back to an understanding of the covenant in the Old Testament with Abraham. The Jews, all through the Old Testament, are called the people of God, and there is an aspect in which, as a nation, they have been called of God, set apart by God for a specific purpose.
But within that nation, and this is what Romans 9, 6 basically says, not all Israel are Israel. And what that means is that just because an individual Jew was a descendant of Abraham, the Abrahamic covenant as a nation, and then you have the spiritual application of that covenant, which has to do with salvation.
What you find as you read through the Old Testament, over and over again, is the fact that only those who were truly converted, who had come into relationship, only those, so that just because they were Jewish, just be sufficient, because the call of the Old Testament to a Jew's circumcised heart, it was to a love relationship, relationship even to those who were the covenant.
And that's why if you read in John 3, Jesus' word to Nicodemus. Nicodemus is the teacher of Israel, he's a Pharisee, he is a Jew, and Jesus told him, Nicodemus, unless you're born again, that is, unless you have a circumcised heart, you're the kingdom.
That is absolutely no guarantee that Jesus addressed you that your father is the children of the covenant. That's why it is so important for ministers, preachers, the ability of teaching the word of God to make sure that people understand that, and that they are consistently preaching the gospel to their people.
The realization that preachers today with the gospel just isn't preached, it's a presumption that because they've been baptized and therefore they are in churches like that, Christ in salvation, it is a personal thing, it is never something that is just automatic within families or...
Now how is an unbelieving wife and children,.
How are an unbelieving wife and unbelieving children sanctified in any way by the believing.
Head of the household? Well, obviously the believing head is going to be somewhat of a protector there because his life is going to be an influence, and our sanctified, where the wife is sanctified, it doesn't mean salvation, it simply means that this man's relationship with the Lord will have an influence upon his children and upon his wife, but he has to pray.
I mean, I would just say to those who, you know, for your children, as a father, to work effectually in the heart of your family. I guarantee you, I mean, I'm 67 years old, if I have five kids, if I had to do over again, go back in time, I would be spending a whole lot more time in prayer.
For my family than I did. We have another listener in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We have Ted, who says, your guest made reference to the need for a second reformation but did not elaborate. This is a term that's heard from time to time from emergent types who are frequently very soft on Sola Scriptura.
What does your guest think of the idea of a second reformation? What does that mean to him and why would he think it is necessary or unnecessary? That's a very good question, although I took it for granted that everybody knows who you are and they would know what you mean by a second reformation.
But even Robert Shuler, I think he might have even used something similar to that term in a book that he wrote years ago, and he meant something entirely different than you meant. What he meant by it was building up people's self-esteem and stop informing them.
About their sinful condition. Yeah, no, that's hardly what I mean. The reformation, if you just go back historically, what's the reformation all about? It's all about the gospel. It's all about bringing people back to the fundamental authority of the Word of God.
That's what we need today. And I'm talking here about the evangelical church. When I say a second reformation, I'm talking about the need for the gospel to be clearly proclaimed and the authority of the Word of God asserted.
And what I mean by that, coming back to a full understand testament and the New Testament, justification must have been done by God. Justification is a requirement of the law against sin. You know, cursed is everyone who does not abhor them.
That's where men are. They're under a curse because we have rebelled against the judgment of God, fully bearing that judgment. It's an all-sufficient work. It is done once for all. It cannot be repeated because he cannot die again.
The soul that sins shall die. That is the judgment of the law of God. Jesus Christ has borne our sin and his life and death as a payment for that sin. That's justified. That is, it is his righteousness in fulfilling that law as well as the righteousness of his life that he lived under the law of God that is imputed to us as we are united to him in personal relationship.
We stand in his life. We stand in his righteousness and that is a gift of God given to us. That was an absolute truth that was needed to be proclaimed at the day of the Reformation. It's that particular application of the gospel in the day that the Reformers were raised up by God to clarify that gospel in light of the generation where that gospel had been the Roman Catholic Church to make it a legalistic work.
The Evangelical Church, what we need is a Reformation, the same thing, because what is proclaimed from so many pulpits is a false gospel. It's not that it is not proclaiming certain aspects of truth. It is.
When you talk about justification, that it's not by works, that it's in Christ alone, it's by grace alone. What is happening in Evangelical churches is there is a diminishing of a preaching about sin and what sin is and the need for repentance and how that relates to faith and what it means to come into a relationship with the person of Jesus Christ as Lord, not simply as one who will deliver by the cross of Calvary from guilt.
I need deliverance from sin, sin as a ruling power in my heart and life. That's what's missing in so much of the teaching and preaching of Evangelicalism today is what we call easy believism. You just give an intellectual nod to Christ, you admit you're a sinner.
There's no understanding of what sin is. Sin is not just, B .B. Warfield said, we tend to think of sin atomistically. That is, it's issues of behavior. Murder, thievery, lying, all of these are behavioral issues that are sinful.
Immorality delivered not just from the behavioral issues, I need to be delivered from my nature, from what I am, not just from what I do. Coming to Jesus Christ as Lord, my heart is changed. I receive a new nature.
I'm raised from the dead. I become a new creation in Jesus Christ. Unless that root issue of self is dealt with, I have never repented of sin as sin. I can turn from behavioral issues and never repent of sin.
That terrible deception that he speaks of in Matthew 7, where you have the broad gate and the broad way in contrast to the narrow gate and the narrow way. The broad gate and the broad way leads to destruction.
The narrow gate and the narrow way alone leads to life. It is that narrow gate of what it means to enter a relationship with Jesus Christ. You have to deal with legalism. There is absolutely no way you can know him and hold on in any way to some form of merit or works.
That has to be under repudiated. Paul makes that very clear in Philippians 3, that he had to count everything lost in order that he might know Christ and be found in him and not having a righteousness of his own derived from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ.
That required the utter repudiation of legalism. I am coming to Christ who is Lord. He saves me as Lord. I'm entering into a relationship with this person. I cannot know him unless I'm submitted to him as Lord, because that's who he is.
That's his call. He calls men into submission to him because he is the living God. We are called then to turn from sin as sin. That is my rebellion against the law of God, where I am in control of my own life.
Self is the center of my life. Christ called to me as to a discipleship relationship, to a due loss slave relationship, just like he had with his father. He is a due loss of God, a slave of the living God.
That's what he is as a man. When a man truly comes to know Christ, he is brought into submission to him as Lord. People need to understand this. They need to understand what sin is. They need to understand that repentance means turning from it, so that your life in Christ is brought back into conformity with the law of God.
By the power of the Spirit who indwells you, you are now able to obey the law of God by his power. You are delivered from sin. You are made a slave of righteousness, as Paul says in Romans 6, so that you are a new creation.
You are completely different from what you used to be. Your heart has changed, but that has to be proclaimed to men. This whole lordship issue has to be brought back front and center to men, where men are told this is what it means to know Christ.
Yes, you must turn from legalism, but if you have not turned from sin and become a disciple, as Jesus defines it in Luke 14, in Mark 8, in Matthew 16, in John 12, in Luke 9, where he calls men into the kingdom of God in relationship with himself as Lord to be his follower, then that man will perish.
He does not know Christ, and that's why there's a new reformation that needs to be proclaimed to the evangelical church, which is engrossed in antinomianism as opposed to legalism.
Antinomian, for those of our listeners who think that's something from Star Trek or something that just means against the law, antinomian. And that was an excellent answer to a very excellent question by Ted, because even the homosexual evangelical movement, so-called, is using terms like a new reformation and so on, and what they want to do is really destroy any reformation that occurred and start something completely new under the same label of Christian.
But yeah, it's interesting what you were just saying, Bill, because Paul, in Romans 9, he talks about the two different vessels that God, who is the potter, is manufacturing or creating. And one is a vessel of honor, and one is a vessel of wrath or destruction.
So obviously, these two vessels cannot possibly appear to be identical for all perpetuity and be different vessels if they are.
Identical, correct? Yeah, because what you have, if you go back to Matthew 7, where Jesus is defining the issue in the Day of Judgment, he said, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, is going to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
All right, there you have a profession of faith. It has to do with those who are truly professing Christ. I mean, a Buddhist doesn't say, Lord, Lord, to Jesus Christ. A Muslim doesn't say that. A Jew does not say that.
We're talking here about professing the Christian Church, those who profess Christ. And the warning that he is giving, in the light of, he says, beware of false prophets, in that same passage, is that you have two gates that are presented to men.
You have two ways which are in his name, but they go to two very different destinations. One ends up in life, the other ends up in destruction. He said, there are going to be many in the Day of Judgment who will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and your name cast out demons, and your name performed many wonderful works?
And he said, I'm going to say to them, I never knew you. They didn't know him. He says, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. That's the issue, lawlessness. And see, that comes back to, what is lawlessness?
1 John 3, 4, sin is lawlessness. It's rebellion against the law of God. That's what we need to understand, that Jesus Christ saves you from rebellion against the law of God. And if you're living in lawlessness, if you have ever repented of that attitude of heart and life, you have entered through and you have been given assurance by false prophets.
You don't have to repent of this. You don't have to make this radical commitment to Christ as Lord that he seems to be suggesting in the Word of God that it's a broad gate. You can come in and be accepted by God.
You don't have to deal with sin. You don't have to deal with the law. You can walk in lawlessness. You may be religious. I mean, after all, Jesus is speaking there about men who profess him as Lord. They say, Lord, Lord, that's a doctrinal statement, a theological statement.
He is Lord. He is God. But they did not submit to him. They did not do the will of God. And that's the distinction. You have men who have professed Christ, but their life has never been transformed by his grace to become godly and righteous, where they have dealt with sin and repented of it and entered a narrow gate and are walking a narrow way of obedience to Christ, submission to him, where they actually do the will of God.
And that does not mean ministry, because these people that Jesus speaks to are involved in ministry in his name. They preach. They do many wonderful works in his name. That's not the issue. The issue comes back to, has my life been transformed by his grace so that I become godly and righteous?
I become a sanctified man and I walk in holiness. It's what first Peter says, we shall be holy. God says, you shall be holy for I am holy. We are to be holy in all of our behavior from the inside out in our heart, all the way to the external, in our outward behavior.
So what expression there in Romans 9 is that you have two types of people. You have those who are truly saved, who have been called by God, raised up by God, and who have been transformed by the grace of God.
You've got the other who have rejected the gospel, who have not responded to the true gospel. And that is a whole different circumstance because they are still under the wrath of God.
Yeah, it'd be absolutely absurd to call an unrepentant, lascivious, licentious, openly depraved, unrepentant individual a vessel of honor. It doesn't even make any sense using.
The unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. It cannot be clearer. He will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, he says, not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of thy father who is in heaven.
You do the will of God. Those who do the will of God abide forever, 1 John 2. That is part of the deliverance and salvation that Christ effects in the heart of a man who's truly saved. He's walking in their way.
He's been transformed by the power of the risen Christ so that he walks as Jesus walked. He's conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. He's like him. Well, all you got to do is go read the descriptions of what Jesus says about himself.
He conformed to the image of Christ. So much is proclaimed in the day in which there is absolutely no way a man can live in. And that's why Paul says in Romans 6 that grace might increase. May it never.
And for those of our listeners who may be out.
There either listening live or who are listening to a recording, maybe years after it was broadcast, we have people who may be under the heading of the most despicable and disgusting and wicked people who may be hearing this broadcast and they may say, well, if all this is true, I have no hope then.
Because I know I'm not a vessel of honor. I know that I'm not going to live up to any of these standards that are being upheld to me. And I know that I'm hopeless and powerless in my sin, whether it's adultery or homosexuality or drunkenness or drug addiction or whatever the.
Case is. What do you have to say to these people that are listening, Bill? That's the whole purpose of the gospel. Christ came to save sinners. I mean, and the whole issue is acknowledging the fact, coming to an understanding of the fact I'm a sinner.
I need salvation. I need to be reconciled to God. I'm headed to an eternity in hell separated from God forever. But that's the hope of the gospel. The gospel is good news. There is a way of deliverance, but you have to repent.
You have to acknowledge this is wrong. God is not going to accept me in my sin. He is not going to save me and let me stay a sinner. He transforms the sinner into a godly, righteous man or woman. And this teaching that is so prevalent today, that you can come to Christ and know eternal life and continue to live for the world and for yourself and for sin, is an utter heretical teaching.
It is taking men to eternal to eternal destruction. Amen. But the hope here, you know, Paul says the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God, and then he gives a list of those sins. He says, let me think where that is.
Yeah, in Romans 6 verse 9, do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God. I am the bread of life. He who comes to me shall not hunger.
He who believes in me will never thirst. You come to me. I'm the resurrection and the life. I will deliver you from death. I will deliver you from judgment. I will transform your life. I will give you a new heart.
Come to me. The story of the gospel, God can suffer from hell. Glory, God, praise, that's just a small part of what true salvation means. From sin reconciled to God, you actually know the true and living God.
This is life eternal, that they may know thee, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. That is what hope for the sinner transformed and made new and.
Reconciled to God. Amen, amen. And we're going to be going to our final break. We have room for one more book to give away and we already have somebody who's patiently waiting for me to ask you their question.
But our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com and please include your address if you're writing for the free book and please ask a question relevant to our discussion. And please, if you're overseas or in Canada, write us anyway because we would love to hear your questions and we love to hear from our global listeners often, but we just apologize that we cannot send you a free book due to shipping costs.
Anyway, we'll be right back with Dr. William Webster and the gospel of the Reformation, salvation from the guilt and power of sin, right after these messages don't go away. Hi, I'm Mike Gallagher. Support.
For Iron Sharpens. Iron Radio comes from Thrivent Financial, where faith and finances connect for good. Thrivent helps its members be wise with money and live generously. Nearly two and a half million Christians count on Thrivent to help them protect their families and strengthen the communities where they live, work and worship.
To learn more about what makes Thrivent unique, contact me at 717 -254 -6433.
Lending faith, finances and generosity. That's the Thrivent story.
I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in-depth study. Used by pastors, scholars and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.
From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at NASBible .com. Trust, discover and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. Go to NASBible .com. That's NASBible .com.
Tired of box store Christianity? Of doing.
Church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.
Well, there's good news. Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word. And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.
Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at WRBC .us. That's WRBC .us. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you've just tuned us in. We have been for the last 90 minutes or more, been discussing with our guest, Dr. William Webster, his book, The Gospel of the Reformation, Salvation from the Guilt and the Power of Sin.
And we've been stressing how much of the evangelical church at large today has been violating, especially that last aspect of the gospel, is that salvation is from the guilt and the power of sin, not just from the penalty of sin.
And we have one more book to give away, if you'd like to join us on the air. We actually have two more books to give away, but we only have one more in addition to the person waiting to have his question answered.
ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com is our email address. Include your mailing address when you're emailing us so we can send you the free book. And before I move on, I also want to welcome as our new sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron, our latest sponsor, Providence Baptist Church in Norfolk, Massachusetts.
And I apologize to those who live in Massachusetts if I'm butchering the name of your city or the pronunciation of your city. Providence Baptist Church in Norfolk, Massachusetts, their website is providence baptistchurchma .org, as in Massachusetts, dot o-r-g.
Providence Baptist Church, m-a dot o-r-g. And we thank Pastor Mark Lukens and the whole congregation there for thinking enough of Iron Sharpens Iron that they deem it worthy of supporting the ministry here, the radio broadcast here, with their financial help.
And we thank you so much. We can never thank you enough. And before I forget, since I heard the voice of a mutual friend of Dr. Webster's and mine, Dr. James R. White, who was just reading the ad for the New American Standard Bible, I just want to remind you that right after this show today at 6 p .m. Eastern Daylight Time, Dr. White will be hosting his own program, The Dividing Line, at a-o-m-i-n dot org.
That's a-o, standing for Alpha and Omega, m-i-n, standing for ministries, dot org. A-o-m-i-n dot org, immediately following today's Iron Sharpens Iron. And of course, Dr. White's program does not always air at the same time or the same day, so that's just for today.
And let me go to our questioner, Mike, from Fort Myers, Florida. He asks, Hello, Bill. Like yourself, I, too, am an ex-Roman Catholic. Thank you very much for all of your resources in dealing with Roman Catholicism, as I have often cited your body of work with those who are still bound to Roman Catholicism.
Respective to your work, the Gospel of the Reformation, have you had any Roman Catholic apologists or otherwise directly interact with you on it? If so, what has been the major point.
Or chapters of contention? I've actually never had a Roman Catholic interact with me on the Sola Scriptura series, and never had a Roman Catholic interact with me on the Gospel of the Reformation. I think I'm a bit of an anomaly to them because of my heavy emphasis on the necessity for repentance from sin and a transformed life, and the emphasis on works correctly understood, back to what that means biblically.
That, as James said, if you don't, you can have faith, you can profess, but if you don't have works, it's dead. It's dead faith. And so, the tendency within Roman Catholicism is to misrepresent the Reformers, and it is to misrepresent the teaching of the Gospel that is really proclaimed by those who are true to that Reformation.
There is absolutely no Reformer, not one, who ever denied that works are necessary as a fruit of salvation, that sanctification is an absolute necessity. I know they try to put Martin Luther in a certain box with respect to that, but if you read Luther's comments, it's very clear what he says is, we have no problem with works.
We're not against works. He said what we're against is the merit of works, where you make this a legalism. And anyone who is true to the Reformation is going to be true to what the Word of God teaches about the necessity for repentance from sin and for a walk of holiness before God, of obedience to the Word of God.
And, you know, there are two aspects to righteousness with respect to the understanding of the Gospel, and Calvin brings this out and a whole host of other Reformers, that in salvation you are not only given the imputation of righteousness, which is perfect in Jesus Christ, you're also imparted with righteousness, so that you are simultaneously justified and sanctified.
And there's that double aspect of righteousness, which you find in the book of Romans, you know, where the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith. In the first part of Romans, in chapter 1, Paul's talking about the Gospel being the power of God to salvation, the righteousness of God.
Well, the righteousness of God has to do with justification and the imputation of Christ's perfect righteousness. But going on to Romans 6, it also has to do with a transformed heart and life, where you're raised up from the dead in union with Christ as a living person, and you become a slave of righteousness.
And that's where the issue of righteousness there and works is a fruit of a relationship with Jesus Christ, just as justification is a fruit of a relationship with Jesus Christ. In Romans 6 .22, Paul sums up that chapter where he says, therefore having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, that's the lordship issue.
You become enslaved to God. You derive your fruit, resulting in sanctification and the outcome, eternal life. See, that's salvation, deliverance from sin. You were justified eternally before God, but you're also converted.
You are sanctified. You were adopted into the family of God. You're regenerated. And then the day is coming when a true believer will be glorified with Jesus Christ as a co-heir with Christ, and he will enter into an eternal inheritance.
But I've never had a Roman Catholic seriously engage me. They always misrepresent. Well, all you believe is imputed righteousness, sola fide, therefore you have a total denial of works. Nothing could be further from the truth.
It's just understanding what the relationship of works is in this whole process of salvation and in this work of salvation that is accomplished by Christ. To enter a relationship with Christ, you cannot come with legalism.
You repudiate all works because it's by him alone. But you come in repentance, turning from sin, with a desire to be a man or a woman that transforms your life. You have been made to die to the law through the body of Christ, that we might be joined to another, to him who was raised from the dead.
There you come joined, made one with him, baptized into Christ. That's not water, baptismal union in bringing us into relationship with the person of Jesus Christ. And out of that relationship, we're sealed in him.
In Ephesians 1, it says, as we respond to the gospel, and the fruit of that then is we're justified for all eternity. That's an instantaneous work. You're sanctified. Our lives are set apart. We are no longer ungodly.
We are godly. We're no longer unrighteous. We become righteous, and our life will be manifest in fruit that is born through the power of the spirit of God in us. We walk in the spirit, no longer in the flesh.
Now, as we summarize over these next 14 minutes or so, I just want to go, even though we may be a bit repetitive here, because you've addressed all these things, but I want you to just go step by step with brief definitions, as briefly as possible, just so we can summarize appropriately what we've been talking about.
If you can start with, as briefly as possible, a definition of.
Justification once again. Okay, justification has to do with the guilt of sin. The issue is sin. You have the person of God. That's where you have to begin. There's a creator, right? The true and living God exists.
He has created us for a purpose. That purpose is defined by the law of God. Well, man has rebelled against that law. We've rebelled against God as a person, and we've rebelled against His will in how we live.
The law has two aspects to it, two components. There is the aspect of a personal relationship. The first commandment, the greatest commandment, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
That's relationship. We're called to be in an exclusive worship relationship with the true and living God. We are to live exclusively for Him, to serve Him. He is to be the center of our life. Well, man and sin has rebelled against that.
What's at the center of man's life is self. It's you and me. That's the greatest idol of all. Then we have the world, and we have individual sins that we commit, that we're in bondage to. Then we have the idolatry in other aspects of our life where other things take God's place in our life.
Well, that's our rebellion, and that's our state. Well, the law of God has a consequence if you rebel against it. If you can keep it perfectly, you don't need salvation. You can earn it. The problem is we are born in a state of sin and rebellion against God.
Therefore, we need to be saved. We need to be reconciled to God. We are sinners in rebellion against God as defined by the law of God. The law of God requires perfect obedience to be accepted by Him. It requires death for transgression.
Justification is dealing with that aspect of sin. Where we have sinned against God, we have guilt before God. There are consequences to that sin. There are eternal consequences to the judgment of God.
We're under the wrath of God. Jesus Christ lived a perfect life under the law for you and me. He never sinned. He lived that perfect righteousness that we are required to live but cannot live. Then He went to the cross to bear the penalty for our sin.
Our sin was imputed to Him, and He took that sin in Himself. Then the wrath of God was poured out upon Him. He bore the judgment of God against our sin. In justification, when we come to Christ, we come with empty hands, in poverty of spirit, and we come in dependence upon Him in faith, believing what the Word of God tells us that He will do for the sinner.
He will justify us for all eternity. That means we are declared righteous by God. We are acquitted from the penalty of the law, the judgment of that law against us, so that we are set free from all condemnation and all judgment for all eternity in Christ.
That's why the Word of God gives hope when it says to us, there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, none, because Jesus bore it all. That's the aspect of guilt. Justification means I stand in Christ, united to Him.
His life is my life. His standing before God is my standing. His merit before God becomes mine. His righteousness is given to me, imputed to me as a gift. That's why Romans 5 calls it the gift of righteousness.
That's not something I earn. I cannot do it. That is something that is given, and it is perfect. The absolute perfection of the law has been fulfilled by Christ, and that is what is given to us in Christ.
We stand forgiven, reconciled, justified under the law, but we're no longer under the law. It cannot condemn us ever because of Christ and His salvation. But the other aspect of salvation then has to do with the state of sin, the power and the dominion of sin within me.
As a rebel against God, I not only have guilt, but I have this state of being that I have to be delivered from, and Jesus Christ is a deliverer from sin. That's sanctification and regeneration. That's conversion.
That's where a man is transformed from being ungodly and unrighteous to becoming godly and righteous in Jesus Christ. He is made missive to the lordship of Christ. It is as Jesus is roared, reigning in the heart of an individual, but the back of sin is broken, and a man is set free from the power and the dominion and the state of sin, and he becomes a new creation in Christ.
He is made alive to God in Christ, and then his life now becomes conformed to the law of God. In both those aspects of the law that I mentioned, in relationship with God and in behavior, so that in relationship with God, what I have in my heart is a first love relationship with the true and living God in Jesus Christ, and that's where this whole teaching on discipleship is so important, because Jesus says in Luke 14, if any man comes to me, he must hate his father, his mother, his wife, his children, his brothers, his sisters, yes, and even his own life, or he cannot be my disciple, and what he's doing there is applying repentance.
The first commandment of the law of God is you should love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. He's dealing with idols, and he's saying that if you're going to come to me for salvation, you have to deal with the idols.
I have to become first love in your life, because I am God who created you, and that's part of repentance, and that's where this whole issue of discipleship and understanding his teaching of discipleship is understanding this is a call for men to repent of rebellion against the law of God in their relationship with God as a person and in their rebellion against his will and their behavior.
In Christ, that man then, where that man truly repents and comes to Christ in that kind of a commitment, it's a radical commitment, but it is a commitment that is born of the grace of God in the heart of a man.
If that message is preached, God takes that message and applies it to the heart of a man and gives him the ability by his grace and power to turn in that kind of a repentance to Christ. There is no other legitimate Christianity but that.
Jesus does not know anyone who is a true believer, but a true disciple and one who is fully committed his heart to him and has repented of sin. That's the deliverance that is brought in our life by the Savior Christ, and then the ultimate issue, the ultimate is going to happen in eternity where we are delivered from the glorified with him.
And made like him in perfection. And definition of faith, because there's obviously a big debate even within evangelicalism of what that means. Some believe that just means mental assent.
To the true facts of scripture about Christ. That's where you have to come back to what the reformers did. They came back to the word of God. They defined the gospel by the word of God and they preached that gospel to men, which flew in the face of the tradition that they had been raised in for hundreds of years.
They stood tradition and boldly proclaimed what the word of God teaches. If Jesus says, if you are not a disciple, you will perish. We need to proclaim that to men because that's what the word of God teaches.
Intellectual assent, as James says in James 2, is dead faith. If you have just this intellectual assent to Christ that you admit you're a sinner and you acknowledge certain fundamental basic truths intellectually and you need the intellectual, I'm not diminishing that at all, but if that's all you have and it has not moved in your heart to where you actually turn in repentance from your sin and have committed your life wholly to Christ as he has defined that, then you do not know him.
That's where the error of evangelicalism is so prevalent today because we have redefined the teaching of Jesus to mean this is not necessary. It's a second step. What you have in Christianity is a two-tiered Christianity.
You've got those who have professed Christ and they are supposedly believers. They're not disciples, but they're saved. They can be given assurance of salvation and then you have the truly committed who are really disciples.
And it's these who are fruitful and it's these who you want to disciple. That's where all the programs about discipleship come in. They're in complete error because the only person who's a true believer is one who has fully committed his life to Christ as he has defined it in being a true disciple and as Paul says, is one who is enslaved to God in Romans 6 .22.
If I'm not enslaved to God and that means the word doulos, if that has not happened in my heart and life, I've never been set free from sin and I'm not going to have the fruit of sanctification.
Yeah, even the demons know the truth about God, as James says, and they tremble. And they have more of a proper response to knowing that than many people do. Because you will have people online for an altar call who are not trembling at all and yet that trembling even isn't giving that those demons a pathway into heaven.
So even the mental ascent and even the trembling isn't what deems a person worthy of heaven and yet many demons have a more proper response to.
The gospel than humans. Well, I mean the kind of gospel that is preached to men today is very palatable to the heart of man because you don't have to deal with anything. I mean all you have to do is who wants to go to heaven?
Just raise your hand. Well, you just give mental ascent to Jesus. Well, how is that offensive? Who doesn't want to go to heaven? When you start preaching the real gospel the way Jesus preached it, you're going to get a reaction from people but that's what is so desperately needed.
When the reformers preached the gospel in their day, they got a reaction. Opposition, but they also got salvation, conversions. There was a mighty movement of the Spirit of God. What we need today is the same thing.
We need a full, bold proclamation of the true gospel by men who don't fear the face of men, who couldn't care less what men think of them, who are going to be true to the Word of God no matter what it costs them.
Stand and proclaim to men what sin is and the need for repentance and the hope of the gospel but they're not going to give men a false assurance that if they've just given some intellectual nod to Jesus that they're going to be in.
The warning of Matthew 7 should ring in all our ears. That day is coming when many will say, Lord, Lord, and they will be cast away because they never entered an arrogate, they never walked in their way.
And finally, if you could touch on the gospel and evangelism, and we only have one minute for you to do that.
Evangelism is a faithful proclamation of the gospel. The gospel as it is defined, clearly defined for us in the Word of God. That's evangelism. I mean, you know, you've got to be faithful to the truth of the Word of God.
The whole issue with evangelism is that men need to be reconciled to God. That is the issue. They need deliverance from sin. They need to understand they were made for the glory of God and that they are sinners headed for an eternal judgment of separation from God, and they desperately need to hear this message.
That's evangelism. And if it's true, it will result in the salvation of souls, but it's also going to result in the antagonism of men and the opposition of men. Amen. And we want to apologize.
To Anna in New York City. We didn't have an opportunity to get to your question, but we are sending you a free book. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart, Dr. William Webster, for being my guest today, and especially for being a faithful friend through many trials in my life.
Thank you so much for being our guest today. Thank you, Chris. And Dr. William Webster's website is christiantruth .com. Remember to tune in to Dr. James R. White at aomin .org right after this program at 6 p .m. Eastern Daylight Time.
That's the dividing line with Dr. James R. White right after this program. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater Savior than you are a sinner.
Please tune in to Iron Sharpens Iron tomorrow with our guest John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.