Dead Men Walking Podcast: Dr. Ben Merkle, President of New Saint Andrews College

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00:15

Well, hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of dead men walking. I'm your host Greg And who do we have to my left?

00:23

Oh, hey, Greg. I'm Jason Jason likes to play it like this Mexican standoff game to see if I'm gonna announce his name or yeah

00:30

We're just trying to still work through that one a year later, you know, we're 11 months or whatever it is.

00:35

Yeah How you doing brother great man doing great we got pounded with some snow

00:43

Got about 24 inches of it people talking about the the winter storm of 78

00:48

I'm like, I wasn't there for that one It is crazy how the rest of America is kind of looking at Texas right now and they're like wow with all those guns

00:56

Yeah, it's the foot of snow that took you. I know right seriously We pray for those guys down there though, too.

01:03

I'm just not set up for that kind of weather obviously Pipes not wrapped and water supplies and stuff like that in here in Michigan, though We get dumped on pretty good, especially when

01:12

I get up north to my property. That's right Lord. That's right. Yeah, man Well, hey, listen, we want to jump right into it.

01:18

I know we usually banter a little bit I do want to introduce our guest tonight because we are excited

01:24

You know, it's it's it's always fun and very interesting to get

01:30

Interesting and fun people on the podcast you think no to People that are much smarter than us.

01:37

Oh everyone is Every guest so far, so we're hitting like a yeah.

01:44

Yeah, right. Yeah, you know when dr. Sam storms came in He blew us down Douglas and he gave us a run for the money there

01:50

You know the list goes on and Sam Lynn Andrew Salem was good too, man. Oh, man, but tonight we have

01:55

Dr. Ben Merkel on the podcast. He has a doctorate in philosophy Master studies in Jewish studies master in English literature bachelors in education.

02:04

He Lectured at new st. Andrews College and is now the president.

02:10

What what let's welcome. Dr. Ben Merkel How are you doctor

02:20

Really well started beyond here Listen we want to jump in with some subjects with you

02:29

But first we like to do a little thing called newsy news We read about two or three stories from the week

02:35

Feel free to jump in if you have any comments on what we're going to talk about Jason Let's do some news

02:53

Do we got some news today ladies and gentlemen Jason you're you're in full like FM radio

03:00

DJ Sometimes we got to make this a morning show, you know We don't know if somebody's on the way to work listening to this podcast.

03:09

We're waking them up, man We have a doctor in the house. That's right. Get in shape in order

03:17

News no, I'm joking. Okay. So here we go. Um, we had a church in Nashville.

03:23

Ooh That said the Bible isn't the Word of God. Yeah, they're that they're part of the new progressive

03:30

Christianity, right? So this is interesting the Bible the church said isn't the Word of God Self -interpreting a science book and answer rule book inerrant or infallible rather it is a product of community a library of texts multi -vocal a human response to God living and dynamic

03:49

So and can I can I just go ahead and read 2nd Timothy 316? Sure I knew you'd have a scripture for is that okay?

03:56

All scripture is breathed out by God and Profitable for teaching for reproof for correction and for training in righteousness the

04:05

Bible is Theanostos, so what I saw in this article was he specifically categorized himself as progressive

04:12

Christianity And he said hey look at this is what we believe now. Yeah, this is what it really

04:18

Believe in progressive Christianity is it's not the infallible Word of God It's not necessarily inspired in his example was look at it's not a scientific book

04:28

So it doesn't address every single thing that this modern era has to offer and the

04:33

Bible can't hold up And he's and he's read the Bible Yeah, I don't think so that kind of comment.

04:40

Dr. Ben. Well, why are we seeing this kind of stuff now? Why are we seeing a a pastor coming out and basically going against really simple orthodoxy what?

04:49

99 % of so -called, you know Christians would believe Well, I mean the thing is we've actually been seeing for quite a long time

04:58

It's just that this you know We saw like 30 or 40 years ago as all the mainline denominations slowly faded out of relevance

05:04

So now we're watching the evangelicals start to peel off. I mean, that's a sad thing you can get into the headlines for a second, but Check and see what attendance that church is like in about five years and this is what it looks like to become irrelevant

05:16

Yeah. Wow. I love it. What else we got truth Yes My my my phone went ahead and died on me

05:27

I can jump over technology is just doing awesome today So, okay. Here we go pastor jailed for holding church services amid pandemic restrictions

05:36

Oh, this is the this is James Coates. Yeah, James Coates. I think it's Alberta Yeah lead pastor of Grace Life Church in Alberta Canada has been jailed for holding in -person worship services amid ongoing pandemic restrictions

05:51

You know, this is a failure at so many levels and even at local. Yeah, I was gonna governmental level.

05:57

Oh my goodness I mean, I reach their elected officials, right? I mean elected officials.

06:02

Yeah, they are elected officials and for us for well The crazy stat that I saw is that Alberta had released 41 felons because of kovat because they didn't have room but yet they're holding

06:15

Pastor James Coates pastor in jail without without bail or their equivalent

06:21

For preaching the gospel Wow. I mean, this is what we've been talking about for almost the whole year on the podcast

06:28

Yeah, this for me. I don't like a slippery slope argument But this is a slip this is we are halfway down the slope now

06:34

Yeah if they can pull a pastor out of church for a health violation what else is gonna be a health violation and what else is

06:41

Gonna be a violation that will have to shut those churches up and shut those preachers up what I like about this story is

06:47

James was offered by the arresting officers. They said look at just don't preach just say you're not gonna hold church We won't arrest you.

06:52

He said sirs. I can't do that. He went before the magistrate They offered him the same thing they said look at just give us your word that you won't preach that you won't hold services and he said sir,

07:02

I can't do That either and I I just stand firmly with this brother up in Alberta. Yeah, let's for sure

07:07

Let me make sure we're praying for him for supporting him. However, we can okay Let's go to the final story on newsy news.

07:13

I saw this come across and It was interesting to me. So Herschel Walker.

07:19

He's the Hall of Fame football player and a fellow brother in the Lord. He said slavery ended over 130 years ago

07:26

He testifies before a court. We don't need reparations and He's african -american.

07:33

Mm -hmm, and he basically just said look this ended 130 years ago I'm a person of color.

07:39

Yeah, I don't believe I need this I stand with my fellow brothers and sisters in the african -american community

07:45

The majority of them also believe that they don't need this and I just thought it was interesting to see

07:50

Someone with a little bit more celebrity I guess in the secular world Standing up and saying yeah

07:56

We just don't all think the same or want the same thing much like liberals and leftists kind of want to put minorities into their little package of what they think they should believe and The ironic part is it's mostly white liberals that are doing this

08:10

Yeah Most Antifa people that are caught are actually white. I don't know if you've seen that.

08:16

Yeah, I did. What do you think? What do you think about that? Dr. Ben when we're talking about reparations?

08:22

is that something that you can speak to or you're comfortable speaking to with about this idea of You know of paying back to minorities from slavery.

08:34

I Mean yeah, you know, there's a lot of layers You just pointed out it's how much that a lot of is not so much driven by a black leadership, but it is

08:45

I mean, it's funny because we've we've one of the real sins that we've sort of Identified lately as a culture society of cultural appropriation

08:56

But one of the things that you notice is that if you if you watch this

09:02

Progression from the civil rights movement to where we are now what you realize is that what's happened is that basically

09:08

I think there is a small subset of basically curvy white men who have done massive cultural appropriation of the civil rights movement where we've taken what was going on in the 60s with race and tried to attach it to We there was a certain mojo that was generated by the civil rights movement

09:28

We're trying to hijack that and use it and apply it to you know, sexual identity and things like that and it's really

09:35

We saw something that was going on over there. And now we're trying to appropriate that to ourselves It's a bunch of white people doing it.

09:43

Yeah Unbelievable. Well this kind of segues into what I wanted to open with When we decided to have you on and you were so gracious to come on for a little bit your your college new st.

09:55

Andrews College did a Promo last year and if I could I wanted to play the audio of it and for those of you watching what we'll clip to The to the video at another point, but you guys did something called black lives matter

10:08

And I think it's geez five or six million views since then I know you had as as you as you told them

10:15

Wokey McWoke faces They were they were they were yelling and screaming and saying you can't run an ad like this and I thought it was interesting, but I want our listeners to hear a little bit of it and So let's listen to that and then we want to get in and talk about hey

10:30

Wokey McWoke face quick question this black life mattered

10:35

But doesn't this one? We know this black life matters, but why doesn't this one?

10:42

we believe that all these black lives mattered and tens of millions of others to murdered in the most dangerous place in this country for any black life a wound

10:54

Murdered and dissected and sold We believe that each and every human life matters because every human life regardless of culture or color

11:04

Is crafted in the sacred image of Almighty God, which is the only possible reason why any life could matter at all?

11:12

We believe that secular progressive white supremacists have been running a vile and genocidal

11:18

Population control campaign against blacks in America that is straddled centuries

11:23

Trying to keep them from life from adulthood from power from stable families and communities and that matters

11:32

We believe that the organization black lives matter Registered trademark is a

11:38

Marxist front that doesn't care about black lives even half as much as an average white pro -life flyover

11:43

Trump voting evangelical Every single black life matters from conception to the grave and Beyond into eternity

11:53

That is God's truth, and it's a hell of a lot more than BLM can say This shouldn't be hard, but clear thinking is rare these days, especially on college campuses

12:06

All lives matter all black lives matter all behind a badge on the street in the womb philosophy matters theology matters history matters thinking matters

12:27

Learn to think in unthinking times new st. Andrews College clear thinking clear teaching in person this fall

12:39

Well, you know I was gonna stop it halfway through but then I said I just gotta listen to it again I mean, it's such a video the video is amazing.

12:46

Yeah Yeah If you go to the YouTube channel, you'll be able to see We'll make sure we link up to it.

12:52

Yeah, but just amazing What was the thought behind releasing something like that and just kind of being so truthful so in -your -face and from a college no less

13:01

We just assume colleges are just liberal bastions of you know, idiocy right now. What was the thought pattern behind that?

13:09

Well, I mean you're right. I think that that is what pretty much all colleges are right now And so like when you hit a moment like this, though Where everybody is going in one direction

13:20

Then you have to learn to see those moments as opportunities where if you differentiate at a moment like this

13:26

It's far more powerful. And so we're like looking at our cultural moment and we're seeing everything basically being flushed down the toilet and so This is the this is the time where you really have to step forward

13:37

You really have to stand out and I think that there's a it has a disproportionate Impact when you're willing to do it when nobody else will yeah

13:45

You know now why why does new st. Andrews College take this approach with so many others

13:53

Universities and colleges just kind of hanging back even those that have a Christian bent

13:58

What was the thought process behind you just saying just that we want to be out in front of this and go against where we?

14:04

See the culture going even the restroom video as well the restroom video another one

14:11

We'll link these up right right. Yeah, we have to put the link. So these are awesome videos Yeah, the restroom one that got us in trouble with our own town.

14:19

We had our marriage Yeah Well, so so there's there's why

14:25

NSA is doing this But I think it's a start with like why all other colleges are not doing it Particularly even your colleges and a lot of it goes back to and this isn't the whole thing

14:34

But it really sets the stage is the whole federal money question I mean most of the college industry is driven by federal money

14:41

Pell grants student loans I mean, that's that's how even your private Christian College makes more money off the federal government than they do tuition payments for mom and dad so they keep that they can't offend the federal government and and and and so what happens is basically the between the financial package and then the accreditation path

15:05

Most colleges they spend their friends all the time looking to demonstrate compliance because if you're out of compliance and you don't get the money you don't get whatever and so so college administrations and the senior administration all selected for the singular sort of virtue of being able to demonstrate compliance and so so So then when you have a cultural moment when the whole culture is going one direction all the leadership there all their instincts are to figure

15:32

Out how do they best comply with whatever is is being? You know, whatever flag is being flown.

15:38

They know they know their job is to figure out how to salute it And that was really early on but then it's saying one of the things was we didn't want to take federal money

15:46

There were different principles There's number two principles driving that but one of the things is once you take the federal money once you don't take the federal money

15:53

Then you realize that like you're actually free to just think about what is true And can we just boldly say what is true and there just aren't many schools that are in the position where They they aren't beholden to the federal government

16:06

They have the ability to actually just say what is true And so we have the freedom to do that and we're at a current cultural moment where it's actually really important for people to stand up and say

16:16

Yeah Are you guys in the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities or?

16:24

Yeah, the CCC, you know, yeah, we were but we were we left about a year ago gotcha, uh,

16:30

I You know that the CCC was really leaning into the fairness for all That was their response to the

16:41

Equality Act and I think that it was a misguided response that I respect for a lot of people in it, but I think that that was our a wrong

16:51

Strategy and we left over that gotcha. Yeah, I went to Union University in Jackson, Tennessee Yeah, got my

16:59

Bachelor's of Arts and music But yeah, that was a I was I was wondering if you guys were a part of that So then you're just separate you're just by yourself.

17:08

You're just your own entity We're in other associations as a group.

17:14

I ace I a CE that were Other evangelical colleges there took a little bit more of a robust stance to the furnace for all initiative, but No, so we're not a part of CCC even one.

17:29

Okay. Gotcha. So let me ask you eight months after this video releases What's the overall response to it?

17:36

I've been really really positive. I mean definitely there are people that were upset about it

17:41

But I think in general there are so many Evangelicals who I think the general response was a lot of people saying finally

17:50

Because there's no there's not much evangelical leadership that will actually speak out to us, especially at the college level, especially there

17:58

Yeah, but yeah, I think that it was a Really strong response.

18:04

I mean our our enrollment is off the charts for this next year. We're growing like crazy

18:11

Um Yeah, it's been it's been really robust and strong and I would argue if the public schools don't

18:19

Destroy your child by the time they graduate College is the most formidable part of your years where you're actually cementing who you are

18:28

Intellectually and to have you guys going against the grain when even so many You know, like I said colleges and universities won't they just kind of go one direction

18:38

I think that's amazing. I want to shift gears here a little bit though and ask you What why post -secondary education we had a run for over the last 20 years

18:48

I was in it I graduated high school in 99 So even then it was like you have to go to college if you want a job

18:56

You gotta go to college and that's when you know student loans and the Fair Lending Act and things like that Just a few years ago had been passed where You know through the federal government all these things coming out to where you could access that money easily

19:09

But oh, I found that easy money brother They won't quite release you from it that easy

19:16

No, they won't either, you know, your mortgage is under the Fair Lending Act, but not student loans will garnish wages, but You know

19:24

So then now over the last five or six years even in my personal life where I'm working with the community County Commissioner in real

19:29

Estate things like that. It's a push to the trade especially here in Michigan I don't know how it is out where you are, but we are understaffed in in the trade

19:37

So, you know, let's say you're a parent listening right now, or you're even a young person. That's probably more demographic

19:43

You're 16 17 15 whatever and you're saying I'm thinking about going to college or maybe not going to college

19:50

What would be your pitch to them? And why is it important for post -secondary education? Yeah, so I mean

19:57

That's actually a complicated question because I was a number of very conflicted impulses and in my answer that so I think you actually started to give the answer this in the little previous segment there because you mentioned how

20:10

Influential these years are in the lives of young people and like one of the things

20:15

I asked parents when they're sitting there saying, you know Like particularly parents who maybe have sacrificed a lot of money and time to put their kids through a strong private school or homeschool

20:24

Them in the K to 12 years. They're like, you know, I gave them at the Christian Foundation. So why would

20:30

I then? Continue on another four years at the college level haven't already given them that foundation.

20:36

And so my question to them is always okay Just tell me over the course of your own life the years 18 to 22

20:43

Were those the sort of like inconsequential years, you know Like like were those the years were like nothing of real importance happened in the foundation of your theological convictions your understanding of the gospel in your formation of your family your career where all those years were where those years were like Yeah hardly anything happened there and Everybody laughs now because everybody knows those of the years were actually some of the most formidable things happen

21:13

Well for good and for evil Those those are the years when a lot of people either came to the faith or came to their theological convictions that they currently share

21:23

That's where they met their spouse or it could be on the other end That's where a lot of bad things happen and a lot of the sins that they're still trying to get past all played out in 18 and 22 those are like hugely influential years and what

21:37

I've noticed is that our Impact on our students has a disproportionate impact over any other four years in their life

21:45

In establishing them for long -term faithfulness. So I think it's actually like a really important time I'm conflicted though, because I do think that the the college degree has been

21:56

It has become something that it was never meant to be And it really has to do with the colleges

22:04

As soon as federal money came along They realized that they could if they sold the college degree as the path to the vocation and career

22:13

Like this is the necessary certificate in order to get a job then they could tell all of America that you have to have a college degree if you want to have a career and Then they could milk the federal government for the tuition money for that.

22:25

And so colleges could expand their programs drastically and also ramp up their tuition significantly and And it's just a lie.

22:34

You don't need a college degree to get a job. It's not it's the college certification the color excuse me vocational

22:43

Certification is not really what a college degree is best at giving you there are a couple of careers.

22:48

I think engineering Nursing sure, you know a couple careers where it's like actually you those courses really line up well with that career

22:57

But most jobs we all know that you learn how to do that job

23:03

When you show up the first day and the first thing it was everything you learned at school

23:08

Does not really relate to this at all Because your professors were completely out of touch with the industry and we're going to teach you how you actually do this job

23:16

I mean, that's the sad truth and Colleges don't want to admit that I think where a

23:23

Christian college has a the ability to have a disproportionate impact and a real ability to advance the the kingdom is by taking a

23:34

Not necessarily all of the you know, high school graduates

23:39

Maybe only a third of the high school graduates really need to go into college But there are certain critical thinking skills and leadership skills that we can give them that are not

23:48

Connected to any one particular industry but have more to do with Cultural leadership in general that we actually really can

23:56

Impart and if you combine that with a real deep influence our instinct for faithfulness

24:02

Then we could have a disproportionate impact for advancing the gospel Throughout the kingdom and I think that's where we really ought to to try to aim and that's what we're trying to do at NSA Wow, that yeah, that's an awesome thing.

24:15

I kind of feel that's outside of the you know, the technical Areas where you do need technical education and training

24:23

Even in post -secondary. I kind of feel that's what college should be right? I mean it is a all -encompassing

24:29

Principal and kind of culture driven. This is how this is how you you know kids can function in life right live life

24:37

Yeah, which I feel our high schools and junior highs are failing miserably, right? Which just makes your job all the much harder.

24:44

Yeah, but so What are the main this has popped into my head but so what what are the main programs are the most popular programs at new st.

24:55

Andrews Well, so so in our undergraduate degree We just offer one degree in liberal arts and culture because we're not trying to specialize in each particular

25:06

Vocational skill. Well, we're basically saying is the liberal arts if we go out it really intensely and really robustly

25:14

We're going to teach you how to think how to communicate how to lead how to be a Decision maker and a critical thinker and a communicator and that actually has application in law and yeah

25:26

Amen, right It can go in any number of different directions a friend of mine just recently you mentioned.

25:34

Okay, so this guy's a You know 20 years As a commander in the

25:39

Delta Force, so a fairly high levels before says guy and it was a great quote where he just said we we

25:47

We we train for like the normal circumstances. We train for certainty, but we educate for uncertainty

25:55

So I can give you the steps for changing a tire

26:01

I can give you the steps for balancing your checking account But but tomorrow is uncertain and and one of the things that you know

26:09

The last I don't know year has really taught us that the future is deeply uncertain No, and and that I can educate you for I can't give you the steps

26:18

So I can teach you how to think I can teach you how to make decisions I can teach you how to communicate and maybe that means that you're going to be a lawyer or maybe it means you're going to Be an entrepreneurial businessman or a teacher or a minister, but I I don't know what that's going to be

26:33

But I can teach you how to think and and that's what the liberal arts degree is oriented towards And that's what we're trying to do is make leaders not one particular vocation.

26:44

Oh, I love it. Yeah, that's awesome We need more schools doing what seriously, you know, it's critical thinking and you know, teaching logic and all those things

26:54

I uh, what do you got there Jason? I've actually been to your college actually

26:59

Dr. Merkle, I I used to be in a band and we played at your college Yeah, man

27:06

This was a long time ago. I don't even know this might have been 10 years ago

27:11

Then he bit a head off a bat and then But So funny my one of my buddies was like, yeah, you know that we played we played at that college, right?

27:24

I'm like, yeah, I I can't remember that was that was my apostasy days but I think the

27:31

Campus was pretty awesome. Yeah, but but I do remember being in a Coming right out of college and just not having a clue, you know after after going through four years

27:43

Well three and a half. I finished in three and a half, but I still have no clue what I really learned in college.

27:48

No But but I think you know by the time I was

27:54

I was 23 it was like I had this piece of paper in my hand exactly what you're talking about I had this piece of paper in my hand and it was like, all right

28:02

I'm either gonna go be a musician or I'm gonna try to you know Teach guitar lessons at some guitar store it that like there there was there was zero direction in my life

28:13

You know at the time and and I think I I mean and I ended up at Ford Motor Company On the line working next to people that were 18 years old when

28:24

I was 32 at the time And we were making the same amount of money and I had this bachelor's degree and and it you know, it didn't matter

28:34

At all that I had went to college and I just had all these student loans So what what is?

28:42

If you think about it, so this is the con that colleges have have run is because Soon as student loans become available then what happens is we you know

28:53

When you get the college recruiter calling you what he's gonna do is he's gonna show you Jobs that you could get with their different degrees and he's gonna show you the pay scale

29:02

That that those jobs will give you right and then he's good He's gonna tell you then that it's okay for you to take out the student loans because you'll get this job

29:11

You'll have at this return on your your investment. You're Alive student loans and The con is that this degree equals that job

29:22

So these student loans equal that paycheck Yeah, but the problem is like you're 18 year old self

29:29

Would you really trust your 18 year old self to decide your career path? Absolutely not

29:38

I Know right No, absolutely. And what you say what he said to is like we are training leaders.

29:45

Yeah, I love that. I love training leaders That's amazing critically. Thank you guys need to go to New San Andrews.

29:51

Yeah for sure Well, let's let's as we wrap this up here. I know that we are gonna be seeing you in person in South Dakota.

29:58

Yeah, I think you're you are a guest speaker at the fight lab feast rally in South Dakota, isn't that correct?

30:04

I'm looking forward to I'm trying to talk them into like paying for me to have a Harley to ride up on nice Yeah, man.

30:11

All right. Let's call Gabe. We got to get out Yeah, can you give us a little bit about because we're gonna be live podcasting there as well

30:18

Can you give us a little bit about maybe what you'll be talking about or give us a little hint? without spilling too much

30:25

Well, I know it's gonna have to do with education And so I'm still resting in my mind with with where it goes

30:30

One of the thoughts the one that's kind of strongest in my head right now is done we've just launched a new video commercial for NSA that has a little bit of profanity in it that is

30:43

Kind of upset the world and I was thinking that actually be a really good thing to focus on Basically, why is it right to refer to the world of higher education as an obscenity?

30:56

Whoo, look at my interest trying to outdo Jeff Durbin and when he's

31:05

From the ball. Yeah, have you have you watched? I mean, I've watched a lot of your of your sermons online.

31:12

Dr Merk, I am I'm stoked to see you live. It's it's like the Rolling Stones, you know

31:17

Like you want to see the stones live. You can watch the videos, but you're just like I want to see you know,

31:25

Mick Jagger like slithering around like a snake Did you just did you just compare?

31:31

Dr. Ben Merkle? Yeah, the Rolling Stones. That's right Awesome stuff.

31:36

Yeah, he's got yeah, you guys got to check out I mean if he's TV if he's Jagger, what is Doug Wilson of the

31:42

Doug Wilson schmiltz? And I'm All right, we're quickly losing control of this podcast

31:49

Wilson's the Beatles Okay, dr. Dr. Merkel as we finish up here, can you just throw out and we'll put these links

31:57

Obviously in the episodes too, but for everyone listening throw out anywhere They can get in contact with you or the school or or any social media platforms.

32:04

You'd like them to follow it Yeah, definitely. Check out the NSA web page NSA you as well as our feeds on on Facebook and I think you can catch some of these videos on our

32:15

YouTube page But if you hit our Facebook page, you'll see these videos all linked there and those are

32:22

I think kind of interesting to take in Awesome. Well, dr. Ben Merkel. Thank you so much for coming on.

32:28

We appreciate you stopping in with us and talking with us I know we're gonna see you here in a few months out in South Dakota We'll have to stop by shake your hand and thank you in person.

32:39

Yeah, dr. Ben Merkel everyone Having me appreciate it And everyone make sure you continue to follow us on social media.

32:49

I know on Instagram and Facebook and all over the place We've been getting so many nice guys Yep, we're booting up the myspace again.

32:56

Gosh, I was in a flow there Jason. Come on We do appreciate the reviews the likes all that kind of stuff and the fact that you guys reach out to us

33:03

We had a gentleman last week say hey dudes. He said how the email went from the webpage. It was nice.

33:08

It was you Hey, dude, you really got me stoked about Jesus again, what's your address so I can send you some stuff?

33:14

Yeah, I sent him the p .o. Box. I'm not giving that dude at my Thank you so much we appreciate it guys and as always god bless

33:28

Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at dead men walking podcast for full video podcast Episodes and clips or email us at dead men walking podcast at gmail .com