18 - The Triune God, Part 2

Well, welcome to the striving for eternity Academy, I am your host your teacher instructor, whatever you want to say. I am Andrew Rappaport. This is a ministry of striving for eternity. You can get details about striving for eternity and other ministries and other things that they have at their website striving for eternity org.

Welcome to The school of world religions we are in a class specifically on an introduction to the major Western Religions. We're in part two of that and we're giving a response. This is lesson number eight lesson number eight is about God.

What is the Proper view biblically of God who God is and how does that answer as a defense? For the many different world religions that have differing views of who God is. This is part two, which means.

Yeah, right. You should have watched part one. I know some of you jump in in the middle. I got you. So if you have a syllabus, I encourage you to grab it. You can get a syllabus. Syllabus, I could speak.

At the website store dot striving for eternity org. You can order one there get a syllabus follow along. So that you can fill in the blanks write your own notes in have it as a handy reference because this lesson specifically.

You're gonna run into people where you're gonna say I wish I had the syllabus I wish I had these notes that I can go back to and just open to this lesson. I mean if you have the syllabus put like a little post-it on this.

This lesson because this is the one you're gonna go back to why this is the lesson that Atheists struggle with Mormons struggle with Jehovah Witnesses struggle with Muslims struggle with Jews struggle with.

Everybody seems to struggle with this except for the only group out of Christianity biblical Christian. It doesn't seem to struggle with this is Roman Catholicism. One of the areas they got have right, right.

So but the reality is is that you know, I understand we are gonna talk today. We we spoke last week about the nature and attributes of God this week. It's on The Trinity or the triunity the Trinity I and look I understand the argument all the word Trinity triunity triune Trinitarian they're not found in scripture.

They're not found in the Bible and therefore these terms are not describing anything. That's biblical. The word Bible is not in the Bible. Just saying so if you're gonna make that argument as someone did last week online I just said well then you can't use a Bible to make your argument because the word Bible doesn't appear in the Bible and By the way, if you're gonna go only with words that are in the Bible then.

Well things like omniscience. Do we believe God is all-knowing omniscient? That's not in the Bible. I'm the potent God all-powerful. That's not in the Bible. Omni-present God is everywhere present.

That's not in the Bible Transcendent. That's not in the Bible. I mean there are many many theological terms that we create for the explicit purpose of trying to define something that we see in several passages to help us with an understanding.

It doesn't mean the word itself has to appear and if the word itself doesn't appear then it's not true. That's just not the way we do interpretation. Okay, the reality is if you're going to argue with that then the Sun must actually revolve around the earth because the Bible's refers to Sun rises and Sun sets and The Sun doesn't rise and doesn't set.

It's a way of Speaking to explain things so that we can understand. So let's just get this out of the way for all the naysayers that well. They probably watch the first four seconds and they go up. Nope.

I've watched enough. I already know that I'm right and he's wrong and I'm not gonna listen to any of his arguments. Yeah, so for those who comment online and challenge us and email us and tell us how wrong we are.

But you haven't watched the class. Well, you're making an argument for ignorance. Okay, just saying but we're gonna go through today. Why the we say that the Bible teaches in a triune God the terms Trinity trinity Trinitarian as I said are not found in Scripture, but there are terms that we use to describe the teaching that God is One in essence yet He exists in three personalities, okay.

This is the one thing you're always gonna see with groups. Jehovah Witnesses do this. Mormon Muslims do this. Jewish people do this they Misdefine they create a straw man. You believe in three gods. No, that's not the thing.

We believe in one. Being one God in three separate distinct persons. God and person are not synonymous. Okay. Now if you're gonna argue what we can't comprehend this. Then you're saying you think you're as good as God.

What do I mean by that? If you can completely comprehend God then God is nothing more than the summation of what you can reason. God is greater than our ability to reason. He's greater than us being greater than us.

We're not gonna fully understand him. So I'm perfectly fine with having a God that I cannot fully Comprehend because God created everything out of nothing and I can't conceive that God is outside of time.

I can't conceive that God is omniscient. He knows all things. I can't conceive that God is Trinity. I can't conceive that my conception of it. My ability to reason of it does not make it true. Reality is.

This is who God as we talked about in the previous lesson lesson seven. We talked about the authority and now maybe you see why this is so important. God has revealed himself to us and all we can understand is what God has revealed to us and try to understand to the best Of our ability what he revealed about himself.

He has not revealed everything and he can't reveal everything because you and I can't understand it. We're not God. So the Trinity refers to the doctrine of The three persons that's your first blank three persons in one God.

That's your second blank God three persons in one God. Notice I put those fill-in-the-blank so you see the difference persons God. Person and God are not equal. God is a is one being but not one person.

So it's not three equals one. Okay, it's three persons one God one being some falsely define this doctrine as Three persons in one person. Three gods in one God went once they do that. They built a straw man argument.

They built an argument so that they can defeat it. What they're doing is immediately revealing that they can't deal with what the proper definition is. The proper definition is three distinct individual people in one being God.

All right, and both of those false definitions are incorrect. These false definitions are used by false teachers to make an easy to refute doctrine. That's the definition of a straw man, right? You give a new definition and then attack the definition.

Okay, and this is why I keep repeating the definition because I really want it to sink in for you. The Trinity is three individual separate and distinct persons in one. Completely and totally unified Godhead.

All right, so I really want you to see that now did the early church believe this? All right. Now I've already said that this concept is incomprehensible to man. The attributes of God are fully true of each person of the Godhead.

The doctrine of the Trinity further proven. In the doctrines of the deity of Christ that we're gonna look at next class and the deity the Holy Spirit. Okay, but the question is did the early church believe in a doctrine of the Trinity?

Well, let me give you a verse of the Bible that says that for this is John 5 -7 and it says for there are three that testify. I'm not going to go into the whole passage, but here's the thing. Okay. Therefore there are three that bear witness in heaven The Father the Word and the Holy Spirit and these three are one that's what John 5 -7 1st John sorry 1st John 5 -7 says now many people are gonna rightly explain that 1st John 5 -7 is though it seems to be the clearest that of the Description of the Trinity it should be noted.

It's not in the earliest manuscripts. It is something that we see in in old in not in the oldest manuscripts, but in Manuscripts are a little bit newer. So the issue is that this verse is not in the earliest manuscripts.

Okay, I'm fine with that because I don't need this one verse to prove the Trinity. However, what you know what that does show Very early on in early manuscripts the Trinity was something that was understood and actually in 1st John 5 -7 it was written in so what I gave you what the earliest manuscripts if you put that up well, actually we don't need to it's just The earliest manuscripts it doesn't include this whole Verse.

Okay, and So people it's not gonna be a great position to make an argument that this is proof of the Trinity in Scripture because I would Say this verse Isn't fully in the scripture. Okay. It's not in the earliest manuscripts the original Canon.

However, what this does show is this does show that very early on. This was something that was understood In the early church when they were making copies because though maybe the earliest manuscripts don't have it's very early manuscripts do.

Okay, so we don't see it in all of the early manuscripts, but very early on this verse was there. So though I would say this probably wasn't in the original writing of John when he wrote what we call 1st, John.

It was accepted by the early church to a point where no one saw it as a problem to to put probably what was in the footnotes that worked its way in and people saw to to put that the three that bear witness in heaven is the Father the Word and the Holy Spirit these three are One no one thought to have a problem with that.

Okay, no one saw any theological issue with that in manuscripts. Why because the early church understood this. Just saying so is it in the Bible? Well, let's take a look. Let us start With the Old Testament.

Let's look at some hints of the Trinity in the Old Testament. The argument usually is is that the Trinity is not in the Old Testament at all. It's only in the new. Well, there are things in the Old Testament that we see hints of it.

Now the Old Testament emphasis was clearly on the uniqueness and the unity of one God the foundational understanding of God was Necessary in order to refute the primary religious deviations of the time, which is polytheism.

That's your blank there polytheism poly meaning many theism meaning God. So many gods the time that Judaism was around Judaism was one of the only religions that believed in a mono theism mono being one the is God one God.

Judaism was the one that taught that there was one God where all the other religions that were around Taught that there were many gods. So the Old Testament focused on it's the culture that it was surrounded by focusing on the unity.

The uniqueness of the one God. Notice one God doesn't break our definition at all. Does it know because we say God is one. There's one God. All right. However, even though the Old Testament Emphasizes the unity of the one God we still find hints of the Trinity.

How? Well, we see the use of Elohim, that's your blank there Elohim elo Him Elohim Elohim. We see this In Genesis 1 1 in the beginning God that's Elohim created the heavens and the earth Elohim. The importance of Elohim is Elohim is a plural pronoun.

It's used in with singular verbs in the beginning God's Created that's really how it would be. It's a plural and that seems strange because it emphasizes the one God. But yet it's a plural pronoun used with singular verbs.

It was a way of employing to describe this true God. That seems to teach or at least have allows for teaching of multiple persons within the Godhead. We see here that that the name teaches a unity but allows for the Trinity.

All right now some liberals Jewish people will say that the use of Elohim is just a literary purpose literary style a Royal we. Maybe that some of the Jewish people say Elohim includes the angels when he created that they were with him.

So that's the way some argue. However throughout scripture the words and letters are Purposeful and in the original they were without error. Therefore if the use of a plural word with a singular verb, it's not used for literary style.

It's used for emphasis okay, and so that would be emphasizing a plurality within the Godhead. A Second thing is the use of plural pronouns. That's your next blank plural pronouns. We see this for example, let's let's turn to Genesis 1 we were there.

So Genesis 1 126 it says then God said let us Just stop right there. Notice God uses a plural pronoun to refer to himself. Okay, he says let us make man in our image after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the seas birds the airs, you know, and so on.

But do you notice that it's the us and the hour. You see that he uses plural pronouns to refer to himself. All right, we also have this in if you look in Genesis 3 22. Then the Lord said behold man has become like one of us knowing good and evil.

Okay. So what do you see with the us? Is that arguing angels? Well the angels what we think know only good or evil not good and evil. So the I would say that that's not really a case they could refer to them this again.

You see the plural pronouns the last one that we'll look up in Isaiah 6 verse 8 and I heard the voice of the Lord. Saying whom shall I send who will go for us? You see again this Implies or allows for the support of a plurality within the Godhead.

Remember I said last week. I'll say it again. The Trinity is a solution not a problem. Problem, we're gonna get to in a little bit. The solution is the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity is a solution to a problem.

It is trying to find how do we resolve something that we're gonna see in just a few moments? I'm gonna give it you. I'll give it to you real quick. Now. The problem is Jesus is referred to as God. How could Jesus be God and the Father be God and the Holy Spirit be God.

Because that's what we end up seeing each of them have Attributes that are only attributes of deity so they have attributes that only God can have. They have they're each referred to as God in the language of their time and then thirdly we see that when we look at the Each one of these members.

They can't all be the same person. Because we see each of them being distinct from one another in such a way that Jesus while on earth can talk to the Father. The Holy Spirit can come down at Jesus's baptism and be visibly seen.

Even though Jesus is standing there and the voice of the Father could be heard. That's one of those times where you see all three members of the Trinity at one place yet distinct from each other. And that's the issue.

That's a problem. That's the problem. They were trying to solve. How could Jesus Be God. Because that they clearly understood we're gonna look at that next lesson lesson 9 we look at Jesus. We're gonna look at his deity.

We're gonna go through that in detail and look at the problem of his what's called the hypostatic union. He has two natures fully God fully man. They understood that to an to whatever level they could and whatever level we can.

Not completely. But they wrestled with how can we make sense of this and the doctrine of the Trinity is a solution to that problem. In defining God's nature to the best of our ability so we can understand him in Ways that that we have to use some new language.

And so we coin the term Trinity. All right, so Let's also look at the word One the use of the word one. All right. So with the use of the word one many who and that's your blank there one. Many who oppose the doctrine of Trinity claim that it contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible.

That God is one. Okay, Deuteronomy chapter 6 as I said last week. This is one of the most known passages to Jewish people called the Shema Hero Israel. The Lord our God the Lord is one God one single.

Now that word of God is used to refer to a group of grapes being one set of grapes one grape vine and It can refer to something that has multiple things. Multiple grapes are on the one vine. But it's still called one.

How could that be? Well because it's referring to the completeness of it. Now. This is a word to mean single. But when we speak of a single thing, we're we don't have a problem with this. Remember we believe in one God one God.

Not one person one God and so this does not refer if you look in your notes. There the word one translated from the word of God Does not refer to oneness in the sense of single always. Okay, it does. But it has a sense of unity knows your blanks.

They're single and unity. It's the idea that you can have one set of grapes the one complete thing of grapes and we call it one grape. Okay, we call it one vine and Yet it has multiple vines on it with several sets of grapes.

We don't have a problem with that. Okay, the Hebrew word echad is Used as one in single when counting or when there's a subject after the word in The case when it's used to refer to God as the subject.

It's a single being we have no problem with that. Okay, it's there's not a contradiction here why. Because we don't believe in three gods we believe in one. Unified a single being that we call God. All right.

We we think of the angel of the Lord. Some would say that's a theophany in the Old Testament if you go through and look at that. We're not gonna have time to look at that. But that's another thing that you can look at the uses of the of theophanies in the Old Testament.

Reason that becomes important and we may look at this next class on Christ on the deity of Jesus Christ but what you end up seeing is that you do see that there's quotations referring to Jesus in the New Testament when he says things that were said of God in the Old Testament and so it's speaking of Jesus in the new.

So that becomes an issue, but you look at the angel Lord the angel Lord has. Or the Spirit of God. Both of them many people think that angel of the Lord is Jesus in the Old Testament in his pre-incarnation.

Pre-incarnation means before incarnate means when God became a man and so he becomes he comes into manhood. And so pre-incarnate is before that time. That's basically what that means. All right so let's look at some of the teachings in the New Testament the neat teachings in the teachings of the Trinity in the New Testament now.

What we have here is that while the Old Testament Emphasizes the unity of God at a time at a time it allowed for the teaching of a trinity. Even though the God is one being we still saw that there is the allowance in the Old Testament for plurality.

Within the Godhead so the New Testament clarifies this. Okay, you now have Judaism you have Christianity that's gonna start teaching on one God. They're gonna start emphasizing to try to explain really the emphasis becomes in some we're gonna look at next week the deity of Christ.

We look at the doctrine of Jesus Christ. That's where this got Really clarified because they were trying to rationalize and understand the deity of Christ and the humanity of Christ the Actually, they accepted the deity was his humanity had a problem with now some people have argued that I teach That you must believe in the Trinity or in a Trinitarian God to become a believer that is not true, I Clearly would not believe that because I did not understand or even hear the word Trinity.

Till after about six years after I was a Christian. Okay, so at least well, maybe at least four years. Alright, so the reality is I believe Jesus was God. I could not comprehend how he could be God walking on earth and still controlling the universe, but he's God.

He could do whatever he wants. All right, I didn't understand his nature well enough to understand the Trinity. But I had to believe that Jesus is God. We'll look at that next lesson if you if you doubt that.

Please pay attention to the next two classes. Okay, we're gonna go over his humanity and his deity. All right, so Where were we. Okay. So With the New Testament, we're gonna see some clarity on this now.

The first thing is that we see three persons are recognized as one God we see three persons Recognized as God and this is where we start seeing the problem that the Trinity is the solution for the problem is we see three separate persons Recognized as God.

So let's go through some of these passages and look at them first. We see the father is recognized by God. This really isn't challenged too often, but the father is recognized by job by God in John 1627.

John 1627 if you open there and look at that you do have your Bibles, right? Okay, good John 1627 for the father himself loves you because you loved me and Have believed that I came from God so see the father who sent Jesus is referred to as God.

We don't have a problem with that. The father is referred to as God. Okay. No, I think the problem that many people have is they think that only The father is referred to as God, but that's not true. We know the son is referred as God take a look at one of the clearest ones John 1 1 In the beginning was the word the word was God that was with God and the word was God now, how could the word be with God and be God now?

The word we know from verse 14 the word became flesh and dwelt among us is Jesus. So Jesus was with God and was God. Huh? To our minds people try to rationalize that the Jehovah Witnesses will say well, he's a little God a small G God.

No, he then you you that's where they really try to get around this and they end up teaching polytheism. You have multiple gods. Now. You have a big God the Almighty God and the mighty God. That's how they explain it.

He's either God or he's not. Okay, but that's not the only verse we got a lot of them. Actually, we have 48 of the Gospels referred Jesus as God directly or indirectly. But I'm just gonna stick to some of the more Explicit ones so because we don't have time for everything got a book coming out on it though soon.

Hopefully John 8 58 Jesus said to them truly truly. I say to you before Abraham was I am. That I am is the name for God. How do we know that? That's a name of deity? Well, because it says that they picked up stones to stone him two chapters later It's gonna say again when he says the father and I are one.

They pick up stones again to stone him for what for blasphemy and he says for what good works these stone me. They say not for any good works, but you being a man claim to be God the Jewish people of the time Understood the meaning of I am they understood the meaning of the father and I are one they knew he was claiming that he was God they say it explicitly.

That's why they want to stone him. Okay, and in John 8 John says Jesus says if you do not believe I am you can't be saved and That's the thing. That's verse 24 of chapter 8 if you don't believe he's God you're dead in your sins.

That's why this is such an important thing. John 20, let's go John 20 26 to 29 eight days later. His disciples were inside again and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked Jesus came and stood among them.

Peace be with you and said peace be with you and He said to Thomas put your finger here and see my hands put put out your hand and place it on my side. Do not disbelieve but believe and Thomas answered my Lord and my God and Jesus said them Have you believed because you've seen me blessed are those who have seen and have.

Still who have not seen and have yet believed. He says my Lord my master and my God now. Someone try to say. Oh, he was just saying my God in blasphemy. Yeah, no. That's not the case. He's not being blasphemous.

All right. He's not he's saying my God. How do we know that Jesus understands that look at what he says? Jesus ends up saying to him Thomas because you've seen me you believe so you now believe now that you see you now believe believe what?

My god. You believe that he's God. He's basically saying now you believe I've resurrected myself from the dead. Who can resurrect themselves from the dead yet God just saying well, look at that. Lastly.

The Holy Spirit is recognized as God. Let's go to acts 5 3 4 acts 5 3 4, but Peter said Annas. Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back for a part of yourself from the land?

Okay, who did he lie to? He lied to the Holy Spirit. All right. Now look while it remained unsold. Did it not remain? Your own and After it was sold. Was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you can contrived this deed in your heart?

You have not lied to men but to God. Who do you lie to again the Holy Spirit? Who's the Holy Spirit God? So you have three people That are recognized as God. That's the problem. We have three different people recognized as God.

Now we end up with another problem the the three Personalities are each in conjunction. That's your blank. They're conjunction with each other. They're each in conjunction. Each person are seen in conjunction with each other.

All right. So do we have passages that show this well. Matthew 28 19. Matthew 28 19 says go Therefore and make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Notice all three all three are seen in conjunction with one another. Now we just saw that they were all three Mentioned as God we see the distinction of all three of these people yet here. We see all three together.

Where's another. 2nd Corinthians 13. 2nd Corinthians 13 4 says for he was crucified in weakness. But lives by power of God for we also are weak in him. But dealing with you. We will live with him by the power of God.

So we're crucified in Christ and we see the power of God. Titus 3 4 to 6 4 to 7. Let actually you can read that on your own. I'm just gonna skip that for the sake of time. The other would be 1st Peter when we put up the 1st Peter 1 real quick.

1st Peter 1 2. According to the foreknowledge of God the Father in the sanctification of the Spirit for the obedience to Jesus Christ. Notice all three of them there. Okay, we'll just stop there because you see you see all three of them are there together we see that the the three.

The father is one with the son. Okay, so we see that in essence. They're they're all three in Essence. We're gonna see this now. Actually, I think that's so you see the father is one with the son. We saw that in John 1 1 so we won't turn there.

We're you can go to John 10 30. I alluded to this. I and the father are one so the father and the son you can go to John 14 3 to 9 you can go to John 1423 and you're gonna see that Jesus and the father are Are seen as that the father is seen with the son.

Okay, we see the spirit is one with the son. Romans 8. Okay, 8 to 11. I'm I don't want to put these up because we're running short on time. Okay, Romans 8 8 to 11. John 16 13 to 15. Okay, when you look at these you end up seeing that the whole that the the son who is one with the spirit.

Okay, the son and the spirit are seen as one so when we see that again, this is just showing the point that we're seeing here is that Let's put up the do we have the Johnny? Romans 8. Romans 8. Sorry.

Let's just put we'll put one of them up. Actually, let's do the John. Let's let's do John 16. Thanks. John 16 13 to 15 says this when the spirit of truth comes he will guide you. So this is the spirit of truth.

He will guide you into all truth for he does not speak on his own authority. But whatever he hears He will speak and he will declare to you the things that have come he will glorify me. Not God me. This is Jesus speaking.

He will glorify me for he will take what is mine and then declare it to you. All that the father has is mine. Therefore I say to you take his mind. So, what do you have here? You have a case where you see that the Holy Spirit is Referred to the Holy Spirit and the Son are referred to together.

The Spirit and the Father are also together. Okay, we see this we already saw this in Acts 5 3 4. Okay, the Holy Spirit being referred to as God. You can take also take a look at Acts. Acts 5 and you'll see Annas is it says why have you lied to the Holy Spirit?

Sapphira his wife lied to God. They're both seen in the same case. Romans 8 8 to 11 is another case. You'll see the Spirit the Father and the Spirit so. In Romans 8 we'll put that one up now. All right, so to those who are flesh can cannot please God you however are not of the flesh.

But of the Spirit in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you so you see both are distinguished there. So let's just stop there. I'm just trying to save for time. It shows the point you can look at the verses and you should look at those verses in more detail.

All right. Number four in your syllabus is that they are distinct. That's your blank. They're distinct from each other. The three are distinct from each other. Okay, this is again the problem. We saw that all three of them are referred to as God.

We see that all three of them refer to are seen in the same Context and what that does is it gets against the modalism that some teach that God came in different modes. This is why this answers all these problems.

God didn't come in different modes. The problem you have there is how do you deal with the fact that they're all three seen at the same time? If Jesus is not God yet. He's referred to as God. We see that he's referred to as God and the others and we're gonna get in that more detail.

But then we also get into the the point here that we end up seeing that they're distinct from one another. Okay, we see that they're distinct from one another. And and and we end up seeing this causes another problem again.

Why because if they're distinct from one another then they're they're not the same person. Okay, so there is unity in the Trinity yet the plurality in the Godhead is distinct from each other. I'm gonna give a bunch of verses on that distinction in Essence that's your blank there distinction in essence does not mean sorry distinction in existence.

Correction. I what I almost said was really wrong. Distinction in existence Does not mean distinction in essence. In other words the their essence their being is one God there. They have the essence of deity, but they exist.

Separate from one another. That's what that means. So distinction in existence. The fact that they are a being that they exist that their persons does not mean they're distinct in essence. They all have the nature of deity.

So the father is distinct from the son. We see this in John 1428 especially if you cross-reference Philippians 2 5 to 8. Philippians 2. If we look at Philippians 2 5 to 8 I'm just trying to look do we have time?

Okay, so Philippians. Oh, I didn't give you that. Okay. May is it just not in the right order? Okay. Oh you okay, maybe not in the right order. There you go. Thanks. All right have this mind. Among yourselves which was also yours in Christ Jesus who though he was in the form of God, okay.

He did not consider it robbery. Sorry, I'm doing that from memory though. He was in the form of God. He did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped. But emptied himself. Taking on the form of a servant being born in the likeness of men and being found in the four in human form.

He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point even to death on a cross. So he's separate you see him distinct here from God. Okay, God what we would refer to as the father Galatians 4 4 would be another place that we could turn to and it says but when the fullness of time has come.