Good Faith Debate on Pro-Life - Part 1

AD Robles

3 views

June 14, 2022

Good Faith Abortion Debate Part 2 - JUNETEETH SPECIAL!

00:00: Alright, well, I'm never going to actually be ready to do this, so let's just do it.
00:06: This is the Good Faith Debate Pro -Life. Should we focus on womb or womb to tomb?
00:13: Now what's funny about this, and I think this will probably be a theme that will come up again and again and again, but even just the existence of this debate betrays a capitulation of sorts, because we would never have set aside any time or any brainpower debating this topic if it was a different demographic group, right?
00:33: Like if it was legal to just kill black people if you wanted to, or if it was legal to kill
00:39: LGBT people if you wanted to, nobody would ever think, oh, let's have a debate on whether or not we should ban killing black people, or if instead we should make killing black people unnecessary by, you know, welfare programs, you know, maybe fully funded public schools, free health care, so that way it's not even necessary to kill, like, it's just,
01:03: I can't even say it because it's so insane, right, nobody would ever be discussing that, they'd be like, no, no, we actually have to ban killing, right?
01:10: And so even the existence of this debate shows you that, you know, evangelicals in general, they actually don't think that babies are really made in the image of God.
01:20: They would never debate this way if they really did think that. So that's a capitulation just kind of in and of itself.
01:27: The other thing that I'll say, too, is my prediction is that we're going to get a lot of kind of misconstrued sort of goals here, because I think a lot of evangelicals, you know, just assume, like, our goal should be to limit abortions, right, just as long as we're limiting abortions, you know, doing whatever we can to limit them, that's okay, and actually that's not even the right goal, like, the goal is to honor
01:50: Christ in executing justice according to his commands, right, that's our goal.
01:55: We should be focused centrally on what's required from King Jesus.
02:01: And King Jesus says that you shall not murder, and he says if you murder, then you, after, you know, after a court case, and we hear from witnesses, two or more witnesses, if you're found guilty of murder, you should be executed according to God's law.
02:17: That is justice for those who have been murdered, right? And so, this idea of limiting abortions, yeah, of course, you know, as a deterrent, the death penalty will limit abortions, yes, but that's not the goal, that's not the pragmatic goal, the goal is to honor
02:35: Christ and to do what he says and to execute justice according to what he says. It will limit abortions, but that's a side, really a side issue, we're supposed to be exalting
02:45: Jesus and doing his commands. And so, let's just, let's just dive into this and, well, we'll see where it goes.
02:58: It's some winsome music here, look at that, we've got our cameras, they're working our lighting, we've got our celebrities, there's
03:05: Scott Klusendorf and he's ready to go, and there's Karen Swallow Pryor, I see, working on her image by dressing all in black.
03:15: Oh, man, I honestly, honestly, like, why, why, why?
03:26: I just, I don't get it, I don't get it, I'm just going to be nice today. I am anti -abortion, actually, a lot of people are against abortion as continual surveys show among Americans, and people are against abortion for a lot of different reasons.
03:46: Some politicians, for example, support anti -abortion legislation in order to win votes and stay in office.
03:56: Yeah, that's true. Sometimes, that is even the only way they seem to really oppose abortion, as shown when, in their real lives, they choose or even coerce abortion upon women they have impregnated.
04:09: There's the former RNC deputy finance chairman who paid $1 .6 million to a
04:14: Playboy Playmate with whom he had an affair after she aborted his child. And then there's the
04:20: Pennsylvania Republican who resigned in 2017 after it was revealed that he had urged his own mistress to get an abortion.
04:29: And then there's a Tennessee congressman who supported his ex -wife's two abortions before their marriage and then pressured his mistress, a 24 -year -old patient of his, that he was having an affair with, to also get an abortion.
04:44: So one can clearly vote against abortion, but still not be pro -life.
04:50: And you can also be against abortion because you think that women who choose to have sex ought to face the consequences for their choices or even be punished for their sexual activity.
05:03: This is actually, I think, the implied view of those who would seek exceptions to abortion in the cases of rape, incest or other kinds of assault.
05:13: And that implies a view that says that women who have chosen to have sex can't have access to the abortions that women who had sex against their will have.
05:31: I was not expecting that. She's right.
05:38: She's definitely right. Yeah. So, you know, I always found the exception in the case of rape, you know,
05:48: Republicans and the people that vote for that kind of legislation, I always found that insane. It's like, what did the baby do?
05:54: Is it a life or not? Right? Again, like, we would never ever consider such a thing in any other demographic situation.
06:02: Because you got raped, it's now okay to murder? Like, that doesn't make any sense in any context, even this context.
06:09: Right? So so she's kind of right. If you kind of roll back the implications of that, it's like, well, so I guess if it's not your fault, then you don't have to be cursed with the baby, even though the scripture says that the baby is a blessing.
06:24: So and not only does the scripture say this, which, of course, is the only reason to really believe this.
06:30: But even the testimony of women who have who have been raped and had a child through that rape.
06:36: They often look at that child and they love that child. And it's the only good thing that came from that horrible situation and all of that.
06:43: And it's like, man, yeah, that's that's exactly right. The scripture is right. A child is a blessing. And just because you, you know, you can make an emotional case, well, why should she have to carry it to term if she didn't even want the baby?
06:57: Well, you can make an emotional case if you want, but the baby didn't do anything. You would never make that case in any other context.
07:04: And so I got I got to be I got to I got to hand it to her.
07:09: She's 100 percent right. And I and I did actually like the the the critique of people who vote for pro -life, you know, or who claim they're going to be pro -life and how they vote in Congress.
07:22: But in their inactuality, they don't really care about babies. I mean, this is true. I mean, politicians lie about all sorts of things.
07:31: All politicians do this. It's just it's just part of their it's part of their job. They lie like it's their job.
07:38: She's right. I got to say, I mean, wardrobe choices, choices aside. The way this is star.
07:45: I'm impressed. I'm not going to lie. Good for you. Supporting abortion access in these cases belies a belief in the intrinsic value of every human life, regardless of the circumstances of conception.
08:01: That's right. And listen, we ought not to be ashamed as Christians. And maybe she'll go into this.
08:07: I don't know. I mean, I have no idea what to expect now that I've been so impressed by the first two minutes. But but for a
08:14: Christian, we don't we ought not to be embarrassed like I'm against abortion I'm against abortion because I'm a Christian, because God has said you shall not murder.
08:20: And he didn't put a little asterisk next to that and say, unless it's a baby in the womb and you don't want him in all that kind of thing.
08:27: In fact, he makes a special he pays special attention to infants and to babies that are defenseless.
08:33: And you offer him up to Maliki finds that especially detestable. And so I'm that's why
08:40: I'm against abortion, because a baby is made in the image of God. I know that from Scripture. And that's why
08:45: I'm against abortion. I'm anti abortion. It's just that simple. It's just that simple.
08:50: We ought to be. Scripture should be the first thing we go to when we're talking about the abortion issue.
08:55: I am against abortion because I am a Christian who believes in God's word. If I was not a
09:01: Christian and I didn't believe in God's word, I probably wouldn't care. But since I do, and I know that God is real and he's there and he has a law and he's commanded these things, then that's why
09:12: I that's why I'm for these things. Anyway, we'll see if she gets in. I'm impressed,
09:18: Karen, Karen, you got me. You can also be against abortion in the same way.
09:24: Some men that I actually know won't get their dogs neutered because in such cases, they see this as some sort of hindrance against raw male sexuality.
09:35: And they take it as a personal insult, as they would also in abortion. And you can also be against abortion in the way that some political dictators throughout history have opposed abortion for some classes and groups of people, but not for others.
09:52: In Nazi Germany, healthy Aryan women were prohibited from getting abortions, but women in other groups had abortions encouraged or even enforced upon them.
10:04: And you can even be against abortion for yourself, but not for others, as we hear repeated very often words like, well,
10:14: I wouldn't have an abortion, but yeah, that's dumb. And you can be against abortion as I am and as I think most everyday people are, because your opposition is based on a truly pro -life ethic.
10:29: You can also be for abortion to use it as a Trojan horse to get into the
10:34: Christian church and then say, well, you can't actually be against abortion unless you're also for all this socialist stuff and all the welfare programs and all the commie stuff.
10:44: But nobody in this room would ever do that. Definitely not. One that opposes abortion, not in order to gain political power, not to control women's sexuality, not to control the population in certain ways, but rather simply because you believe that innocent human beings have a right to life that no one has the moral authority to destroy.
11:13: It's really not that the human beings have a right to life. I see that. That's kind of a that's a weaselly thing because because, you know, there is no right to life in scripture, right?
11:25: Because your life is forfeit depending on what you do. I mean, you could if you're a murderer, if you're a rapist, if you know you're you're a serial adulterer,
11:33: I mean, the Christian law ethic is that you don't have the right to your life anymore.
11:39: God requires that of you depending on the crime you might commit. You know what I mean? So right to life,
11:45: I just don't even like that because that's not what it is. I mean, nobody has a right to live, but God has made has given you life and you owe
11:55: God allegiance. You have the right to obey Christ and Christ has said, if anyone murders, then this is what you do.
12:04: I mean, he's very specific about, you know, how you try them and you know how you execute them and how you find them guilty as we two or more witnesses and there's got to be cross exam.
12:13: You know, we got to we got to figure out what happened here. We're not just going to go. He said, she said, she said, yeah, anyway, so, so, so the scripture is the reason it's not that anyone has a right to life.
12:24: See that that's you can play around with that. All of a sudden you can be like, well, you know, capital punishment is not allowed.
12:30: It's like, well, it's in scripture though, but you're like, well, if people have a right to life and nobody has the right to take it from him, well, no, actually, some people do have the right to take your life from you depending on what you do and it's in the scripture.
12:40: And so I don't care about the term pro -life or right to life or any of that stuff.
12:46: I actually don't think that's effective for a Christian. Maybe it's, it's, it's cool, like, you know, nice slogan or something like that.
12:54: But for a Christian, it's no, no, my opposition to abortion and the reason why I think it should be abolished, the reason why
13:01: I think it should be a death penalty offense is because God has commanded in his law that that be so.
13:07: And that's the end of the discussion. I don't need this snazzy slogans or whatever. They're too weaselly anyway.
13:13: You can, you could, you could all of a sudden get that Trojan horse in there, which I'm assuming is what she's going to do at some point.
13:18: She's going to pull, she impressed me in the first two minutes. She could probably pull that rug at some point, but maybe not.
13:24: I mean, I got to give her credit because I was not expecting that. Dressed all in black and defying expectations.
13:30: You don't even have to be a Christian to believe this. Just consider pro -life organizations and groups such as Secular Pro -Life or New Wave Feminists or Feminists for Life of America.
13:40: But if you are a Christian who is pro -life, then a whole host of factors becomes or should become part of why we oppose abortion.
13:51: Now, again, I have no problem being described as being anti -abortion because I am.
13:58: In fact, decades ago when I was much more heavily involved in the movement and there was a lot of debate and controversy over what terms should be used, particularly by the media.
14:07: This is going to make the rug pull that much better. I argued for the use of these terms because of their specificity and because of their clarity and because of their truthfulness.
14:17: But she argued for being anti -abortion. Karen, I don't even know what to say.
14:29: That rug pull is going to be quite a sight to behold. We live in kind of a marketing age and branding is important.
14:35: And we have adopted the terms pro -life and the other camp pro -choice because they are much more marketable, much more.
14:45: That's what I just said. It's a slogan. Karen, dude,
14:51: I was not expecting this. I was ready to go go in and Karen just keeps impressing me.
14:58: Five minutes in and she's knocking this one out of the park. There's an interesting history of these terms.
15:03: I'm still waiting for that rug pull. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term pro -life first appeared in 1960 in a parenting manual and was adopted by more progressive people who were opposed to not just abortion, but also the death penalty.
15:18: The term pro -life began to appear even before. That's why I don't use pro -life, exactly. As right to life groups were formed around the country.
15:26: And when that ruling eventually dropped, the term pro -life was at the ready. And interestingly enough, the pro -choice camp came up with their label in response to the pro -life term because it was so rhetorically brilliant that the abortion rights camp wanted to come up with something equally marketable and inviting.
15:48: I think the pro -life camp won on this one. It's hard to argue with being against life much as people might try.
15:57: So all this to say that we ought not to be ashamed of being against abortion.
16:03: Abortion is the intentional and deliberate and premeditated taking of an innocent human life.
16:11: How could we before that? Guys, I honestly don't know what to say.
16:18: I mean, I'm I'm sure at some point again, I'm waiting for that rug pull, but. It's good,
16:27: Karen. I got to give you your your props here. Good job. When I came to be pro -life many years ago, it was drilled into me that we were pro -life from womb to tomb.
16:40: This meant that we opposed not only abortion, but also infanticide and euthanasia, anything that would be a direct physical attack against a human being.
16:52: But between the womb and the tomb, there are countless ways to breed a culture of death, a spirit that is anti -life and therefore anti -Christ.
17:05: For most pro -life Christians, the principles that compel us to oppose abortion include a basic understanding based on biology, not even religion or theology, that a new human life is created when egg and sperm meet.
17:23: This is a discovery that was made in the 19th century as a result in part of the technology of microscopes.
17:31: It has been in medical textbooks since then and still remains in basic biology textbooks, that this is when a unique human entity is formed.
17:42: That is the first principle for anyone in being pro -life. The second principle is the belief that all human beings are made in the image of God.
17:54: This is essential for those of us who are Christians and forming our views on abortion.
18:01: And the third principle for Christians who are pro -life is the further understanding woven throughout scripture that each human life is created by God, knitted together by him in the womb, and that every person is loved by him.
18:20: And a fourth principle is that the highest purpose of human law is to protect human life.
18:27: The taking of human life is licit only in very limited and defined circumstances, which, of course, continue to be debated today.
18:36: And these are topics for another discussion, but they are still topics that must be underpinned by the very principles that we're talking about today as we consider what it means to be pro -life.
18:49: So God actually tells us exactly what the government is for. The laws that we enforce and create, they have to be based on God's law.
18:58: God says that the civil governing authority is there to be an avenger of God.
19:04: In fact, I think the King James says a revenger. So it's like, you know, justice is
19:09: God's. That's what it says in the scripture. And then in the very next couple sentences, it tells us it's the civil governing authority that gets that vengeance.
19:17: Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. And here is what it is. It's the government is for vengeance.
19:23: And so that's what it's for. And yes, that does protect human life, but it doesn't do so in a peanut butter way that's just protecting all human lives just the same.
19:34: No, no, no. It actually takes into account who's the victim, who's the criminal and things like that, what they did, what they didn't do, how we can prove it and all of that.
19:42: And so so our laws ought to be a reflection of God's laws and God's justice. It's really just that simple.
19:50: And that's why we know that abortion should be outlawed and should be punishable as a criminal offense with the death penalty.
20:00: These principles that lead us to oppose abortion. I had to say something, I hadn't spoken in quite a long time.
20:07: This part is kind of to be honest, I'm a little bit bored, but maybe that's just because I, you know,
20:13: I don't know. But but I got nothing here. I mean, everything she's saying is pretty good.
20:19: The general in our philosophy, our actions, our votes and our lifestyles in every area that threatens the loss of a human life or human lives and the failure to advocate against abortion based on these consistent life principles and the failure to also apply these principles clearly and consistently to other issues undermines principled opposition to abortion and therefore undermines a pro -life ethic as a whole.
20:50: And so this is where I think probably the rug pull is starting to happen, because, you know,
20:56: I added this, but, you know, it is conspicuously missing. It's that it's that what we ought to do as as a civil governing authority with our laws is seek to apply the general equity of God's laws.
21:09: God puts a big book of law in the scripture and he intends us to use that law.
21:15: He didn't just leave us out there in the dark to just decide whatever we want to do. Oh, yeah, you know, we're going to promote human life.
21:21: And it's like it's really not like that. It's like he gave us a law on how to do this.
21:27: Right. And he tells us exactly what the government is for. And he gives us a lot of detail.
21:33: He didn't give us every detail, but he gives us a lot of detail. And so if that's missing from the beginning of your presentation, then you can kind of slip in.
21:42: Oh, well, we got to be consistent. Right. I mean, God wants people to be well fed.
21:48: So let's feed them with our laws and our free stuff. And it's like, yeah, but, you know,
21:54: God also told us how to do charity, too. And it's not through the government. And so when you when you divorce your pro -life ethic from the scripture and the clear commands of God, that leaves room for all kinds of shenanigans.
22:08: And so let's see, maybe maybe I'm just maybe I'm I'm not giving her enough credit. Although I have to assume this speech is almost over.
22:15: I think the last one was it was 10 minutes each. I don't know. Yeah, it is.
22:24: So so I wonder if I would assume that the moderator is going to ask her to be more specific.
22:30: She wasted a lot of time. She wasn't really that specific. And there's a lot of shenanigans that can happen with what she said.
22:37: Oh, you got to be consistent and we got to promote things that promote life. And it's like, true, but but only according to God's law.
22:44: Like we can only do it according to God's law. God's law is what matters.
22:49: Christ's commands are what matters. And it's unfortunate that, you know, she spent so much time talking about, you know,
22:56: Republicans are hypocrites and you can be pro -life for different reasons. And by the way, a lot of atheists are good pro -life people, too.
23:04: And and then she's like, well, if you see a Mago Day, it's you know, it's a pro -life ethic and it's very general.
23:10: And it's like, hmm, I'm wondering now if she did that on purpose just to be sort of slippery and all of that, because she didn't actually give an example.
23:19: So what is actually womb to tomb pro -life? I mean, I know you're not talking about euthanasia. I know you're not talking about infanticide.
23:26: You're talking about something else. It would be nice for you to just be open about that. But then again, what do
23:31: I expect a woman all dressed in black to do who doesn't really smile that much either? You know,
23:37: Karen, you really ought to smile more. It's amazing.
23:42: But both women who have been in these debates, they just they just have that kind of, you know, kind of angry face.
23:51: I just I'm not saying anything, but I'm just saying one two for two.
23:57: Anyway, we will we will stop there. We're going to let Bill Gates here go next. And I'll see you in the next video.