TiL- Pastoral Ordination, Presbyterian RPCNA #ordain #pastors

Welcome to the truth and love podcast.

Thank you for watching.

Hope you'll stick with us tonight.

We are continuing our series on pastoral ordination.

We are in a branch of the Presbyterian Church the

RPCNA and we'll discuss what that is coming up.

How's it going Dan?

Fantastic.

How are you doing?

I'm doing good doing good.

Glad to be back with you, and I'm really excited about this series.

The more it goes on the more we look into it and as we were praying just a few minutes ago.

We split it off it's a many denominations and It's

been that way since the beginning of church.

It seems like but but mostly if you look at church history the beginning of the church,

it was geographical and then it also became

creedal or Doctrinal on how.

Think how groups formed and and stuck together based on doctrinal beliefs and and.

And whatnot so it's it's interesting where where we come from and and how we've got to where

we are and We're gonna be looking at pastoral ordination in different denominations.

But it's not so much a pastoral or denominational survey.

So, what does this denomination believe what does that denomination believe?

For me what I'm hoping is that all of us have gleaned from

Scripture what God?

Has wanted us to know and has wanted us to practice and maybe some more than others but we

want to look at ultimately what Scripture says we should be doing and and how each

denomination has had looks at Scripture and Pulls from Scripture what they

believe God is saying.

This is this is what polity looks like.

This is what leadership looks like.

This is how you should ordain men for leadership.

And I think we can learn a lot from each other and our practices.

What did you think about the conversation we had with Pastor Jonathan Foster from Vertical Life Church?

No, it was it was good.

It was good to see a Baptist perspective at least one Baptist perspective.

Apparently, there's about as many Baptist perspectives as there are Baptists.

Maybe yeah, well, I think we would get a different explanation to a degree If we had a

different episode with different Baptist on each episode.

That's just the nature of Baptist.

Yeah.

Well, I mean you've got different types.

You've got your fundamental Baptist your regular independent Baptist your No

mainline American Baptists and your Southern Baptists of different stripes, really.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, each one of them coming from a slightly different perspective.

You get a bunch but you get that in the Presbyterians to you got the PC USA and you know

the rest of us.

Now there's other ones out there.

What one weakness that I saw that we brought out in in the Baptist?

Process of ordination is.

Also, I guess some some could consider a strength.

It's the it's the autonomy and then

the ordination board or committee.

It's it's just it's up to them on what questions they want to ask.

There's there's really no no guidelines or boundaries that that anybody

necessarily has to follow and so you have the potential of

Good and bad men behind the pulpit and serving in the pastor.

Yeah, the lack of due diligence, which I'm not going to judge the sincerity of any

committee.

But that doesn't mean that they didn't do their due diligence.

They could have done a better job.

And just what they had to work with.

Just from Experiential evidence in my life and what I've seen.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's it's a that practical question between Baptists and Presbyterians and it

really Anglicans or any sort of Episcopal government where.

No, do you?

Do you run a risk of having your denomination go sideways quickly potentially

by no a Presbytery making rules and affecting all the churches or.

The.

The Baptist way where if one goes errant you just kind of kick them off to the side and

You're on your own and you just lose one instead of a whole denomination.

No, we saw.

No, the PC USA turned turned sideways the United Presbyterians up here in the north and

I Mean, that's how the the whole the Orthodox Presbyterian Church got started.

It was a split off from From them when the old Princeton Seminary

was starting to head off into liberalism.

The fellows left and started the Westminster Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia and then

no the OPC came out of it.

So it's uh, yeah, it's a question of ponder.

Yeah, it is and and that's what we're doing.

That's why we're doing this series is pondering those questions how we can be.

I Don't want to say how we can do it better, but in a sense that's true, but how we can be more biblical.

That's that's always the question how we can be more biblical how we can

Learn and understand how God would have us to do this process.

And speaking of biblical I know you already answered this question in our introduction podcasts

on Pastoral ordination, but people people can mean different things when they say this is biblical or

is this biblical?

And they can and we've kind of.

Some people say when they say it's biblical they mean it's the prescriptive and some say biblical

meaning descriptive and then some people elevate something that's biblical descriptive up to Something that

they think should be prescriptive and vice versa.

And you you kind of gave your answer that you think

Pastoral ordination is both descriptive and prescriptive and we also had a conversation

about How that and how it or why it shouldn't a pastoral ordination

elevate itself into the the conversation with?

Sacraments and.

The Lord's Supper baptism, etc.

So yeah, and that was a good conversation.

Yeah, it really even goes a step further.

I'd say because when you look at your church polity that can.

That has an impact on on how you view ordination.

So.

Since.

Since we believe that there are actual qualifications given for the office of elder of the most beef.

Person is put into the office of elder through installation by the laying on of hands of those who are already ordained

or the Apostles.

You.

Haven't described is happening, you know, this is why I left you here to ordain elders in the churches.

So there's you have since you have that element of something that's

prescribed.

This is the qualifications for this office and described this is how we've done it.

You also look into.

I.

Like the book of Acts and you see the church's gathering at the Council of Jerusalem It's decided doctrinal matter that they go

then go back and report to the churches.

This is what we believe is a church.

I believe that right there is a Description of

Those the office of elder being Described in action in

the New Testament, which would be at the presbytery level I mean, I believe is a meeting of a presbytery.

Which would mean that there is some sort of authority vested in the presbytery.

That's not Necessarily in the local church.

Not that it's not there but that the presbytery itself has some

sort of Authority.

It's more there's more to it than just the local church as far as the way God has structured his His

government to be because all the churches are being led by.

Or.

All true churches are being led by the Holy Spirit.

All right, so when they come together in common consent and prayer to to God God will lead them in the right

direction now granted.

Sometimes people will go off the rails and make decisions and you have errant decisions made by churches and councils.

All the way down through which is why the Bible is still our only rule of faith and practice.

But we we are to work and as a as a church body a greater church body.

Towards the end that God be glorified throughout all of our churches.

Mm -hmm.

I don't know if I added this question or.

Raised it differently.

But you thought you were kind of stepping into the waters of a question that come to my mind that I wanted to ask.

After you described the this process that that you've been going through.

Starting for pastoral ordination in this branch of the Presbyterian Church.

So first I Keep calling up a branch of the Presbyterian denomination

and so.

Tell us before you start talking about your process and describe the process.

Tell us what the the acronym RPC and a stands for and and maybe how it got started.

Little history.

Oh.

Goodness, I'm.

That's one of the exams I have to take is a reformed Presbyterian history.

Well, I mean, it's all church history, but there's definitely some reformed Presbyterian history mixed in there.

The RPC and a stands for the Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America.

We are theological and actual descendants of the Scottish

Covenanters in.

Scotland.

So they were much of Some singing Presbyterians over there and in

Scotland.

No, there's a whole history fighting with Actually

fighting taking up arms Against you know Kings

and others who Violated Their their covenant.

That's why how we got the name Covenanter.

Because we believe one of our distinctives is that we believe that you should or that

it's right for a government to

Recognize explicitly Christ as its king and head

so that the the government will work to protect the Christian religion

and To do so honorably to seek Christ to Be

the the one who informs their laws and how they work and they'll protect the church and the work of the

church.

Now it gets Complicated sometimes people don't want to mix church and state

and they are separate spheres but the one should serve the other and likewise

the church should Preach and form the legislators as to what God's law

is and what is his Morality is what God would have done in the world.

The legislature then is there to Protect the work of the church and preaching the gospel

to to the nation's.

So with that in mind, we we had the solemn league and covenant drawn up and signed and

it would.

They.

Folks went back on it.

They didn't like it after they signed it and so There was some some fighting and some people

left and came over to America bringing that Scottish Covenant or heritage with them and

It's grown To I I should know this.

Listen, I'm trying to count the presbyteries we have.

It's several presbyteries across across North America and Japan.

And then There's other other reformed Presbyterian works that have been

spreading across across the world where we're sister churches with the The Scottish

reformed Presbyterians and the Irish reformed presbyteries and there's there's other sister denominations as far as reformed Presbyterians

go.

That's it's not history.

Well, I need to interject a question right.

Sure right now because As you're going along a lot of information well as you're going

along I'm piling up questions in my mind.

So I need I need to know are you gonna be?

Okay, if if you're describing something I say, okay.

Can you take a pause and let me ask a question for clarification?

Sure, or wait to the end.

No, go ahead and go ahead and interject.

Okay, so.

Let me try to remember them all now.

So.

The first one was Oh Reformed Presbyterian Church, North America, right.

Starting with the name itself.

If I was going to think of a Denomination that would that I would consider reformed it

would be the Presbyterian Church.

Sure, so so.

Why?

This branch of the Presbyterian Church.

Why are they using the the term reformed in their official title?

When you're already known as reformed denomination, yeah, this one is actually twofold.

One is because we're reformed.

We come we take come from the the Reformation same basic doctrines as

John Calvin and and the rest on on down through we come from the the reformed tradition.

Another Reason why we say reformed it.

I don't know.

Somebody may correct me on this, but but we were going over this is because we were

Reformed.

We were a church that through our history had been persecuted so much so we no longer had any ministers.

Our ministers.

Or we back up.

We didn't have any ministers that were ordained.

So that folks could partake in the Lord's Supper.

Um, so Through through

Long process of building up young men.

Finally, they got together a group of men sent them down to the Dutch reformers

on the the European continent in order for them to be examined and ordained as

Presbyterian ministers.

So really the church in Scotland was there and then it was squashed to some degree

and then it was Reformed so it was formed again.

So it was really so those.

For those two reasons were called the reformed or reformed Presbyterian Church in North America.

So here's my next question.

You use the term you're related to the Scottish Covenanters and you and you did kind of explain what that

meant a little bit and the one of the reason why I'm asking these particular questions is

for Clarification that some people may not know what you're talking about.

I'm I'm wanting to sharpen what I think you're saying To make sure I'm understanding it right and correctly because

this is this is you a lot of terminology.

That's right.

And this is unique to This particular denomination and as

compared to the other denominations, so When you say Scottish Covenanters these these

Scottish individuals countrymen Formed covenants with their

government.

Is that what you're saying?

Right.

Yep.

Okay road up the let's see.

I've got a copy of it here.

It's called the solemn league and covenant.

Let's see what.

I should know that you're off the top of my head.

I'm gonna have to learn this before.

For my test.

Somebody's gonna ask.

Let's see it was.

It doesn't say.

But it started off like this.

It says a solemn league and covenant for Reformation and defensive religion the honor and happiness of the

king and the peace and safety of the three kingdoms of England Scotland and Ireland.

And it goes on to.

Say a bunch of stuff about.

The church's role the government's role and then the.

The.

The the three nations and the churches they're Actually actually entered

into a covenant with the government the church and God.

That they would act according to God's Word and

Rulers didn't like being restricted like that and so they went back on their promise.

Basically they they they Signed the covenant in order to gain political support.

It was a stunt instead of Something serious to them and.

The.

Actually the book I was reading from makes a solid fairly solid case as to why

England is still bound by that covenant, even though they Have gone away from it, but I'll

leave that for another time.

We've only got an hour.

Gotcha.

Yeah, and I definitely do what this is so fascinating and interesting and it probably does help us understand this

denomination and as it Relates to the ordination process, but just

one more question before we get in that process.

Just so that we because this term I think it's probably going to come up again.

So just so we know we know what you're talking about.

You.

You made the comment use the term Presbyteries and you said that you have this many presbyteries and even one in Japan.

So For a Baptist or somebody else, what do you mean by presbytery?

All right, a presbytery is a Let's let's use some Baptist language.

It's an association of Local like -minded churches.

Now, we don't have that many.

We don't have that many churches in our denomination, I mean, I think I forget how many we have but

it's it's not a ton.

And so our presbytery has let's see we've got one in New York City

one in Boston Providence, Rhode Island two in Philadelphia.

Ours here in Walton one in Hazleton one in White Lake New York one in

Coldenham, New York.

Oh Man, if I'm forgetting somebody Please don't feel offended.

But but the presbytery is when It is the

body where those churches send delegates of their elders to meet together in order to

conduct business in the church now that business is Either

a review of judicial cases so say There's been church discipline.

If you are insured under church discipline in a Baptist Church If the elders speak

and they say you have done wrong.

That's it in a Presbyterian Church.

You were able to appeal to the presbytery to go back and review The case know

all the minutes from the case.

In order to make sure that things were done properly see that it it that their ruling comes down

with what scripture says.

Also the presbytery They'll look over the minutes from each other's session meetings to make sure that you're

not going off into heresy so when we have session meetings about once a month, we will

Write things down in in minutes that we review each other's minutes to make sure that you know.

Oh, this church over here is doing something just heretical say something

and then the Couple other things that they do.

You know working together to plant churches or or doing different mission works or works

of mercy but I guess one of the one of the bigger things that they do is that they Get together to

train Train examine and ordain men for the

ministry.

Basically what what the presbytery does and that's in our denomination you have

two delegates every teaching elder is a delegate and then one of your ruling elders also comes as a delegate

and Then I believe if you have over a hundred members It may be for

every hundred members after that you get an extra delegate.

I'm really not not entirely sure.

I know that if you if you're over a hundred you get an extra one.

I don't know beyond that not many of our churches have more than a hundred members.

We're a small bunch.

Well, I think the words.

Association for the Baptist is is a good way to help us relate.

Sure.

However You're speaking of another body another group.

We have a comment.

I Didn't.

The comment lines are open.

Colin Andre.

What denomination is he?

That's what he is asking the rpcna.

Rpcna Yeah, I hope we answer you.

Sorry, sorry for the late notice there, but we appreciate you watching.

Thank you so much.

If feel free to ask any other questions that you have my friend.

But when it comes to Presbytery versus Association, so our but political

or authoritative Structure stops at the local church.

Sure.

You're saying that yours goes beyond the local church as far as policy politics.

Authority and it even goes beyond the Presbyterian level.

Okay.

One step up from that and the rpcna is called Synod so it's when

You send the the same delegates To a national meeting and all the all the

Presbyterians come together and do business as a full denomination.

Gotcha.

So I would like for you just because I'm so curious to hear what you have to say after

you describe the process of The rpcna and what you're going through what they expect of you

and and how you'll finish it and What you'll do when you finish.

I'd love to hear all that and we've got a PCA brother.

That's that's watching and listening.

Is this process?

Similar the same as the other branches of the Presbyterian Church and Then

if we have time at the end This thing that you're describing that where you have

authority Part of the polity going beyond the local church.

Is there a biblical case for that?

And.

And what would you say that biblical case is.

I'd love to hear your perspective on that.

So let's start with the process because that's that's what this series is all about the the process of pastoral

ordination.

How did you specifically personally?

Desire it and get started and then then just go with the flow and describe the process.

Oh, man.

Me personally.

It's a it's a big it's a big question.

Real quick on on this brother's question.

I believe rpcna pastors are members of their congregation and.

Their.

Credentials are held by the presbytery.

I Believe is how they word it now.

I may want to I mean watch double check on that though.

Especially because I'm going through the process.

So me personally I I'd felt the a an

internal call into the ministry since I will even before I came to know Christ.

I remember Every time a missionary would come or a pastor would pray that no

the raise up Preachers in the church.

I always thought we know that that should be me not I didn't Necessarily believe the gospel even

but I like well, that should be me, you know, well Dan why I couldn't tell you I had no idea.

So after I I did come to faith what I was talking to one of my pastors and he said, you

know, you really ought to go to Bible College and Just start start some theological education.

So I did that ended up Being asked to work with a few different churches.

Throughout.

New York and South Carolina Five.

Long story short.

I served for a while as a pastor of a Baptist Church Left the Baptist Church.

Shortly after leaving there gained some Presbyterian convictions found a solid Presbyterian

Church and started attending.

That's the first step in being ordained in the RPC and a is to be a part of it.

So I started attending.

Met with the elders and they just wanted to see.

No why are you here.

Because I when I showed up I showed up not to a To a proper congregation, but to a

preaching station.

It was the it's the our church plant work that we're working on now.

Found out that they were gonna start up some services and went met the folks and ended up joining the church.

It's about an hour away from us.

And just talking over things with them they wanted to see you know, if I had any skills or desires any

whatever.

They.

Talked with me examined me at a few session meetings and over a course of a scooby.

Maybe a year trying to think a year

or so.

Then I was brought to a Presbytery meeting Just to kind of see what

was going on.

Six months later I was brought back and the the process started when when my pastor

had put into the minute to the the business of The presbytery

that it would like me to be brought in Under the care of presbytery as a

theological student.

So what that means is that the presbytery would then take a special interest in me In what I was

studying what I was doing and that they would begin to examine.

To examine me to see if I would be eligible to receive a call for ordination.

So.

There's a lot of words there.

So What what that means is no, I'd felt an internal

call.

Now the church is examining me to see if I should be eligible.

No is are you?

Qualified.

Are there any holdups?

Do you know your scriptures enough to be able to go to a church and be a pastor there and

then if I'm eligible to receive a call a Church could call me and that would complete the

the ordination when I was actually installed as pastor there.

So let me back up a second.

I just want to Get some terms Defined while I

was at the start.

So that they had me stand up in front of the presbytery meeting and I was taught.

I Shared my testimony.

They prayed for me asked me a few questions.

I Had a good time there that was in the spring of

The spring of 2023 so in

the fall of 2023 they had me come and Take

my first two examinations.

First examination was a sermon.

I had to preach where I Preach a sermon and then all the members of the presbytery would give

me feedback Positive or negative things that I can improve on and then they had to vote whether to

sustain or not sustain me so sustaining was a positive thing you did

well not sustain.

This guy should maybe go back and learn how to preach again.

I was sustained Unanimously everybody thought that it was it was an acceptable sermon.

Then I was examined under or for personal godliness.

Now in our denomination or our presbytery at least this was a two -part exam.

The first part was fairly in -depth on Some very personal matters and that was

done with members of the Candidates and Credentials Committee.

They they they went in they wanted to make sure that I wasn't hiding anything from them and.

Then.

The second.

That's a lot of what the Qualifications are

in Timothy and Titus.

Yeah those types of qualifications in men, which is

Good good to hear from from this denomination and and how they do things,

you know.

Yep, and then the second half of the exam was done in front of presbytery where I

sat down.

Right after I got done preaching and that I stayed seated up front

and The the teaching pastor from our New York City.

Congregation.

Asked me questions about my personal godliness, you know devotional habits and prayer habits and

how I treat this people and that people and what do I do when I'm upset and things like that for 30

minutes and Came down to the end and I was sustained on that exam as well.

So now I have three more exams.

I have to take.

One of which is a Bible knowledge exam, which is just general basic knowledge about

what's in the Bible a first -level systematic theology exam and.

A.

What is it?

It's a history paper Church history paper, and if if

I'm successful in those three exams, I will be.

If I'm successful in those three exams, then I'll be licensed to preach.

So I'll be able to drive the car with a license as opposed to driving the car without a license.

I guess a Session you have to use that

word.

I don't think yet, right?

I may have.

Our our congregations elders we call it a session, okay

believe.

It's because we believe that our elders are part of the officers of

Christ's court in this church and.

So when they meet together, they're calling they're constituting themselves as

a.

They're bringing into session a.

A.

Bit of Christ's court in his church and.

And these are all pastors elders of one local church of one local church, right?

Okay.

Yep, and then This session and this session get together.

That is called a Presbytery, right?

Okay, and then all the presbyteries get together.

It's called Synod.

Okay, and then you and then you get the different you get the different presbytery denominations together.

You call it NAPARC.

Which is oh goodness the North American Presbyterian and Reformed

churches and Basically, we just get

along with other Presbyterians like there's a couple Reformed Continental Reformed denominations and then

the OPC PCA RPC and a.

We we're friendly with each other and you would meet at that session I.

Don't.

Be honest with you.

I know the least about NAPARC.

I just know that it.

Basically, if you find a NAPARC church, it's a theologically conservative Reformed or Presbyterian Church.

Okay, so let's say just for example our RPC and a and like a brother here PCA.

You guys wouldn't meet at a Synod.

No, okay.

Okay.

No, in fact, I believe their their Synod level is called General Assembly.

Okay.

Yeah, gotcha.

Thank you Becky for that help.

That was really good.

Really really good.

And this this theological examination is really excellent as well.

Do you do we see that or have you seen that in Scripture?

I mean, I can't deny that.

That's a good thing that would that we have theological examination for for pastors.

Where would we find an example for that in Scripture?

You find it in Paul's letter to Timothy.

He says study to show yourself approved or it means not to be ashamed so he is

studying in order to be found approved and.

The approval in our case comes from the presbytery level.

Gotcha.

I can just imagine the Baptist denomination trying to put something like this together.

I don't know that we can.

I don't know that we could come up with a consistent Examination sheet because everybody would have a different opinion.

Well, I mean, you know, we've got the Westminster Confession of Faith and the shorter and larger catechisms

and I tell you what you'd think that we would we'd all be on the same page on stuff, but there are

Disagreements and sometimes it gets loud and raucous, but we always make sure to

sing a psalm hug a neck and Love each other before we leave.

So we talked about the hierarchical structure and the.

That's only to get licensed.

After your license to preach.

And usually this all goes along with your your seminary.

Training usually your first year of seminary.

You're just taking classes.

Your second year of seminary kind of goes along with your first five exams.

Then your second year of seminary usually goes along with your second five exams.

Now the second five exams are.

Another sermon.

There's an exegetical paper a second -level

Systematic theology exam a Oral church

history exam and then you have to take a.

It's a Shepherding and evangelistic gifts.

Exam.

So they run you through all sorts of different Scenarios and questions about what would you do in this

counseling situation or this?

Evangelistic situation if you're trying to share the gospel.

Back to one of the questions my brother who you just passed all of his exams.

He's waiting for a call in January we'll be giving him a call become our associate pastor.

He.

He got asked the question, you know, how would you share the gospel?

Focusing not on justification but focusing on the aspect of

adoption.

And it was it was interesting to think through.

No, since adoption is one of the aspects of salvation.

No, how would you share the gospel by focusing in on adoption?

You maybe that resonates with somebody more than just.

You're a sinner.

You need to be.

You need to have your sins forgiven.

No, and laying it down as a as a matter of.

Law.

No, what does it look like to share the gospel when you're talking about reconciliation between?

God in heaven and his people on earth.

To adopt them as sons, what does that look like?

This is a good question.

I've been pondering on it since I know probably get the same one.

I've also been pondering on it because it's a good thing to think about.

Yeah at that point if you pass those five exams That's ten all together.

Then you are eligible to receive a call.

So which means Churches from wherever in our denomination

Are you'll be certified as eligible to receive a call.

That certification goes out to the Denomination.

So anybody any church in the denomination that's needing a pastor or looking for a pastor Could conceivably

call you to be their pastor.

So they present a call to the presbytery.

The presbytery then can either accept it or reject it.

Like say they're like this isn't a good fit for you.

We know the church we know You this isn't a good fit they can reject the call or they pass

it on to.

The.

The the candidate the person who's Pastor examinations and then if they

accept then there's three final examinations for ordination.

Which is a third sermon another personal godliness exam, which is from what I

understand to make sure that you are.

You haven't been backsliding in the time that you've been taking your examinations and then you.

You you have to affirm the standard the doctrinal standards of the RPCNA

including the What is it what's it called the the the reformed

Presbyterian testimony, which is a small commentary on.

The.

Basically a small commentary on the Westminster Confession of Faith kind of flushes out a little bit more.

Mm -hmm.

And that's how you get ordained.

Well, if you are you pass those exams the last three then there's a service where the hands are laid on you.

And you're actually installed as pastor in in the church.

Once you've been called to a church and that's that's presbytery wide.

So conceivably you could be eligible for a call.

But not Actually made a not actually ordained

so so what they what they do is.

It means that that you're not ordained to and

I want to put this.

It's not like you're just or you can just be ordained now you're a pastor.

And then you're never in a church, in other words, they don't just bestow this this this

church authority upon.

Just some guy who's not going to be a pastor of a church.

So he comes with the responsibility of shepherding a flock and teaching them on a weekly basis and

seeing them through tough times.

It's not just something that you can go out there and obtain and and put in your back pocket say I have got the credentials.

It comes with with great responsibility.

Because you are then, you know given charge to care for these people's souls.

Right for you know, as long as you're you're their pastor so

that it's I Think that's why they do it.

It's not just something to have in your back pocket or a certificate to put on the wall.

It comes with a real responsibility in Christ Church.

Now a noble responsibility.

It says that the one who Desires the office of an elder desires a good thing.

It's a noble thing.

Yeah, and that's very thoughtful.

It's a very thoughtful process very very biblically thoughtful and I can

appreciate all of that that you have to go through and in the process that they have.

When you talk about going to seminary the question that I had was Are you referring to

like an accredited university or when you talk about seminary?

Is that something that the Presbyterian puts on?

Oh.

No, it's well.

At the RPCNA we have our own seminary.

It's called the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

I met the president of the seminary not too long.

It was at the spring Presbytery meeting.

He came and spoke a little bit.

His name's Barry York, I believe.

Our guy Colorado.

I'm blanking on his name.

Uh, kind of knocks.

Yeah, he interviewed him.

Family worship.

Okay, great guy.

From everything.

I understand.

If I was going to seminary again, I'd probably go there a great bunch of people.

And.

The.

Denomination helps their helps their own folks through the process.

They don't want price to be a Thing to To deter someone who's truly called in

ministry.

Okay, so they and they they hold their standards pretty high.

They're they're accredited through I Forget who I don't think it's.

I don't think it's one of the no six Big ones, I

believe it's through Association of theological schools or.

So, I forget but they have some standards then they're held accountable to

To the denomination as well.

They have to give a report every year at Synod You know saying how they're doing what they're doing what they're doing with the money

all that.

I don't know how I got off on that.

I started somewhere Went on to plug our seminary.

Well, I got one more question on that you were talking about the process and then that that those final steps

where you are eligible for a call which means a church can

Call you to come be their pastor and then you have that or final ordination process.

So once you get there and this is a another cross.

The only only term that comes to my mind right now is cross pollination.

I'm.

Going back to the PCA our brother here that was with us the PCA Church or another branch of the Presbyterian Church.

Once you make it to that that process or that stage in the process Would you be eligible

eligible for a PCA to call you and then get ordained?

Maybe.

That's the thing.

Each denomination is going to be like you you're.

Your credentials don't necessarily transfer but

If you're a part of a NAPARC church Other denominations will look favorably on you

know that they they.

They may still like say I was to transfer over to the PCA or the OPC whichever church

was looking at.

Sending me a call their presbytery would have the right I'd say the responsibility To

examine me.

If that's the full gamut of examinations then it's the full group of examinations if they just

want to call you in and have you look at or and look at you and ask you

questions for two or three hours and they're just as a Sort of a get it all done at once

approach.

That would be their prerogative I guess.

Depending on their their roles and how they how they do things, but it's not a one -for -one

between denominations, but no, if you're

If you're in a NAPARC denomination it does look at least favorably.

They're gonna you don't you always want to kick the tires yourself and look under the hood before you before you buy the

car.

Well, you were talking about exams that you have to take as part of this process.

I was trying to wrap my brain about.

What an what exam would the Baptist give and and I believe I come up with with the exam that we would offer our

Candidates and that would be the exam of what is your love language?

Oh.

Goodness, what's a English romantic languages, I don't

know.

That would be a very deep and theological study that we would do on on what your love language is.

That would.

That way you would know how to relate to the members of your congregation.

Oh goodness better that than asking what their Enneagram number is.

Yes, I would say yes me Love.

Language exam would be pretty bad, but that would be even worse.

The only acceptable answer to what is your Enneagram number is I don't know.

I don't know and I'll see you later.

Here's the gospel.

All right, so Let's go back

to Becky's post because that's gonna help us with my next question.

Talk about what a session is.

The great face with her with that Santa hat on too.

That's nice.

It's nice.

Um, I considered wearing mine, but I'll hold off pastors and elders

of a local church as the session and then those guys get with other sessions and Form the Presbytery and then

presbyteries get together and they So that kind of helps answer this question.

So within With let's start at the bottom.

That's probably a bad term.

Let's start with the local church level.

Pastor and elder are there different positions or Everybody's equal.

Is there a lead main teaching pastor?

What does that look like?

Yes, okay.

We.

This is different across different Presbyterian denominations.

Ours we Own a we we say that we have

two and a half offices in the church so we have.

We have the deacon which we agree on just a deacon.

Then we have the ruling elder and the teaching elder.

Know.

The ruling elder and the teaching elder on the session have the exact same authority.

So when they go in When they when they go in to decide

matters or to to make rulings or to Make decisions

each elder is on an equal Footing playing field with each

other.

Elder.

Whether you're a ruling elder or a teaching elder.

We do require we don't require the ruling elders to do all of these examinations.

They are required to be examined by their own session and then elected by their congregation.

Then they can serve as a ruling elder.

But ruling elders in our denomination are not allowed to baptize.

Not allowed to Administer the Lord's Supper.

And.

They're they're not supposed to pronounce the benediction as Very frequently.

I think they can do it on occasion.

Hmm.

So what's the significant of that?

Well, why does the Presbyterian Church elevate the the benediction?

Because the benediction is a is a actual it's a blessing of The congregation.

It a lot of times it comes from Scripture.

Mm -hmm, but sometimes I've heard it before in in our denomination where it there's

scriptural language there.

But it's just a blessing of the people.

From from the pastor.

So you want to make sure that if they're going to to give the benediction that it's something that is

a hundred percent scriptural all the time.

And you may have.

You may have a ruling elder who is wise very wise.

But maybe stumbles over their words or hasn't formulated the way to say things properly.

You they just kind of.

I.

Don't want to say hold it back, but they they treat it like it's an important thing.

So.

Of.

They they can pronounce the benediction.

But they say I believe it says in our we've got a little blue book that says all of this in great length.

Whether you want it to or not.

And it says on occasion.

Okay, so the way you described the the process of calling a ruling

elder now that sounded very similar to how the Baptist Church would call their

Their elders all over.

Yep, so so we got a good connection there.

Now the Presbytery which is where the the different sessions from different churches.

Come together and form one body.

Are there different offices within the Presbytery?

Yes, but no there there are different offices there but they're they're functional.

Administratively functional not.

Everybody's still on the same footing, but we have a clerk a

treasurer and a moderator.

So the clerk writes and records everything helps.

Usually serves as the parliamentarian also.

So make sure that we follow the right orders.

You know if we need to have a motion in a second and then a vote or if we can do something by calling consensus or

whatever.

That person will do that.

They're also the one who will process and give out the call that comes in from a church.

They'll come into the Presbytery through the clerk and then it'll go through its process and then be given to the

candidate.

By the clerk the moderator is the one who stands up front and make sure everything goes well.

He Says hey, we're gonna sing this psalm.

Let's pray.

We're gonna do this now.

We're gonna do that now.

And then the the treasurer handles the money for the for the Presbytery.

Okay, so and and I'm assuming that those who are in the Presbytery

Decide amongst themselves who we're gonna hold those positions.

Yeah, and then if they if they call you to sit or stand before them each one in

each person inside the Presbytery has the equal authority to examine you or ask you questions.

Yes.

But it's the moderator will moderate how that's done so you can't just go rug step out of line

and do your own thing.

Gotcha.

Yeah, okay.

That makes sense.

And then same kind of same question deal with the Senate is Is it same or different?

Are there offices positions in the Senate?

Yeah, I believe I believe it's just about the same thing.

You've got a moderator who's elected on a yearly basis a clerk or now the threat the treasurer thing.

It gets a little bit more involved.

Because because you talk about denominational stuff that's over a course of the whole

organization.

But basically, yeah, it'd be basically the same thing.

Okay.

Well, I get two last questions, is there anything that you would like to add?

Number one that you think we've left out that you would like people to know about this Specific branch of the

Presbyterian Church and then second the the final question.

What what is your advice?

To I would say a young man or an old man or somebody in between that is is

Dealing with that Internal call as you mentioned earlier having a desire

to seek pastoral ministry.

What would your advice be to them?

All right.

So anything we left out.

No.

This one kind of goes along with the advice if you have feel the opportunity to go to.

Seminary.

Who are you going through the process.

And you have a option of getting an MDiv a Master of Divinity instead of a

different seminary degree, maybe a Master of Arts and Biblical Studies and a four -year bachelor's degree.

Do that because it makes it easier on your candidates and credentials committee because since I

decided to cobble together my theological education across like nine years at four different

institutions.

They're they're really looking into my credits and stuff and I'm in uncharted territory and they're

talking about what to do with me and stuff and it's it's just Make it easy on your committee and just just go to

seminary that the normal way don't do what I did.

But.

Advice to you.

To those who are seeking to become a pastor or an elder.

Number one pray about it.

I.

Can't stress that enough to pray about it.

If you really feel that you have a call from God, then.

You know pray.

No, he's either going to confirm That in you or not or you're gonna confirm it in yourself

when you shouldn't.

So pray and then Be patient.

Especially if you're in a Presbyterian denomination, it's going to take a while.

You're looking at three years of school two years of examinations working in your church

on internships and.

They're gonna they're gonna put you through through the ringer.

And it's it's all good.

It will grow you.

And.

Through the whole process listen to your session listen to your elders.

Talk to them.

Bother them.

Get to know other pastors in in the Presbytery.

Get to know the other ruling elders.

There are some really really wise men who serve as ruling elders

Who aren't up there preaching every Sunday, but they have wisdom.

That's they've honed it over years and years of seeing pastors come and go in the denomination.

You're teaching elders have been through it themselves, but they're they're a little biased, you know, they've been through it they understand some

things but Ruling others have been able to sit back and watch.

There's some really wise men there listen to listen to your elders and

Don't be afraid to take a step back if you need to.

You should always proceed with confidence that what you feel that God has called you to God has

called you to.

But you shouldn't take it as something personal if your elders tell you to slow down or go in a

different direction or stop at this point or anything along the Way because really they're looking out for

the for your soul.

They want to that but they would rather see you in in

Eternal bliss with Christ than to see you in pastoral ministry and on your way to

hell.

They're they're not out there to to crush your spirits or ruin you they're there to help you and see you

succeed.

So just be patient pray study and Develop a caffeine

habit because you're probably Everything except for that caffeine habit.

Well.

Since I did the last time and and well time for that and Jonathan did it I'd love for you to share the

gospel and then I will close us in prayer.

Absolutely.

The.

One of the things that I've been I've been

in going through this process you're thinking about.

The elders are there to care for the souls of their sheep to

see them Brought home brought into

relationship with Christ.

I see that that relationship nurtured.

It's a it's a family thing.

It's a it's a thing.

Where?

You are a part of something else.

You're a part of the world.

You're a part of those who love sin and you're drawn to Christ.

There there's so many sins in this world.

So many Heartaches and pains so many things that separate us from God to make us

alienated from him.

We're all guilty of it.

We all have have these things.

That we we do we think they're just evil and wicked.

Um, we need to be healed

we need to have Restoration we need to know that our Creator and

the only way that that's going to happen is if that sin is removed if we were taken from the the place where we're at and

put somewhere new and in that is What God has done

through Christ Jesus he has taken the sins of man placed them upon Christ.

Then taken you from this world and adopted you as his own son or daughter.

That's the essence of the gospel that those who were once in sin and sick those who are

Hurting and in pain will look to Christ and find healing and relief through the gospel

through the remission of sins through the the washing of the Holy Spirit and through the Cleansing of the blood of Christ

and it's only through that that we can find.

A.

True peace.

Enjoy in knowing that God is ours.

We are his.

We've been made right with our Creator and that our sins have been forgiven.

That is the gospel.

And that's good stuff.

So we we do we we hope this was an encouragement to you.

We we hope that you would yield to that gospel message

and That you would share it as well.

If you have already come to know Christ as your Lord and Savior If you would let's pray.

We'll wrap this up father.

We we love you and we praise you and we give you all honor and glory because you you

deserve it.

You are the one and only true God.

You're the only one and only living God.

There is none other besides you.

There's none above you.

There's none beside you There's not even any below you or beneath you because they do

not exist you are the only one you the Self -existing one you you tell us that

you existed for all eternity you father

the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit and we lift high your holy

name and We celebrate The incarnation the

coming and we celebrate the spirit who

came To make us born again to regenerate us Be

our helper and we love you.

We thank you you are so kind and wonderful to us

as Dan brought to our attention as people

who do not Deserve it.

We are What we do deserve Is your

wrath and in your loving kindness you saw fit to show mercy

on us?

And we give you thanks we give you praise and we pray all these things in Jesus name.

Amen.

All right.

Thank you guys for watching.

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