TiL- Pastoral Ordination, Presbyterian RPCNA #ordain #pastors

Welcome to the truth and love podcast. Thank you for watching. Hope you'll stick with us tonight

We are continuing our series on pastoral ordination. We are in a branch of the

Presbyterian Church the RPCNA and we'll discuss what that is coming up I Was going down Fantastic.

How are you doing? I'm doing good doing good Glad to be back with you, and I'm I'm really excited about this series

The more it goes on the more we look into it and as we were praying just a few minutes ago

We split it off it's a many denominations and It's been that way since the beginning of church.

It seems like but but mostly if you look at church history the beginning of the church, it was geographical and then it also became creedal or Doctrinal on how

Think how groups formed and and stuck together based on doctrinal beliefs and and And whatnot so it's it's interesting where where we come from and and how we've got to where we are and We're gonna be looking at pastoral ordination in different denominations

But it's not so much a pastoral or denominational survey So what does this denomination believe?

What does that denomination believe? For me what I'm hoping is that all of us have gleaned from Scripture what

God? Has wanted us to know and has wanted us to practice and maybe some more than others but we want to look at ultimately what

Scripture says we should be doing and and how each denomination has had looks at Scripture and Pulls from Scripture what they believe

God is is saying this this is what polity looks like This is what leadership looks like. This is how you should ordain men for leadership

And I think we can learn a lot from each other and our practices What did you think about the conversation we had with Pastor Jonathan Foster from Vertical Life Church?

No, it was it was good. It was good to see a Baptist perspective at least one Baptist perspective Apparently there's about as many

Baptist perspectives as there are Baptists Maybe yeah, well,

I think we would get a different explanation to a degree If we had a different episode with different Baptists on each episode

That's just the nature of Baptists. Yeah. Well, I mean you've got different types. You've got your fundamental Baptist your regular independent

Baptist your You know mainline American Baptists and your

Southern Baptists of different stripes really Yeah, each one of them coming from a slightly different perspective

You get a bunch but you get that in the Presbyterians to you got the PC USA and you know

The rest of us. No, there's other ones out there What one weakness that I saw that we brought out in in the

Baptist? Process of ordination is Is also

I guess some some could consider a strength. It's the it's the autonomy and then the ordination board or committee

It's it's just it's up to them on what questions they want to ask. There's there's really no no guidelines or boundaries that that anybody necessarily has to follow and so you have the potential of Good and bad men behind the pulpit and serving in the pastor

Yeah, the lack of due diligence, which I'm not going to judge the sincerity of any committee

But that doesn't mean that they didn't do their due diligence. They could have done a better job And just what they had to work with Just from Experiential evidence in my life and what

I've seen Yeah yeah, it's it's a that practical question between Baptists and Presbyterians and it really

Anglicans or any sort of Episcopal government where No, do you?

Do you run a risk of having your denomination go sideways quickly potentially by no a

Presbytery making rules and affecting all the churches or the The Baptist way where if one goes errant you just kind of kick them off to the side and You're on your own and you just lose one instead of a whole denomination, you know, we saw

No, the PC USA turned turned sideways the United Presbyterians up here in the north and I Mean, that's how the the whole the

Orthodox Presbyterian Church got started. It was a split off from From them when the old

Princeton Seminary was starting to head off into liberalism The fellows left and started the

Westminster Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia and then no the

OPC came out of it. So it's a yeah, it's a question of ponder

Yeah, it is and and that's what we're doing. That's why we're doing this series is pondering those questions how we can be

I Don't want to say how we can do it better, but in a sense that's true, but how we can be more biblical

That's that's always the question how we can be more biblical how we can Learn and understand how

God would have us to do this process and speaking of biblical I know you already answered this question in our introduction

Podcasts on on pastoral ordination, but people people can mean different things when they say this is biblical or is this biblical?

And they can and we've kind of Some people say when they say it's biblical they mean it's prescriptive and some say biblical meaning descriptive and then some people elevate something that's biblical descriptive up to Something that they think should be prescriptive and vice versa

And you you kind of gave your answer that you think Pastoral ordination is both descriptive and prescriptive and we also had a conversation about How that and how it or why it shouldn't a pastoral ordination elevate itself into the the conversation with?

Sacraments and The Lord's Supper baptism, etc.

So yeah, and that was a good conversation. Yeah, it really even goes a step further.

I'd say Because when you look at your church polity that can

That has an impact on on how you view ordination. So Since Since we believe that there are actual qualifications given for the office of Elder of the supposed to be

Person is put into the office of Elder through installation by the laying on of hands of those who are already ordained

Or the Apostles You have it described as happening, you know, this is why

I left you here to ordain elders in the churches So there's you have since you have that element of something that's prescribed

This is the qualifications for this office and described this is how we've done it.

You also look into I Like the book of Acts and you see the church's gathering at the

Council of Jerusalem I did decide a doctrinal matter that they go then go back and report to the churches. This is what we believe is a church

I believe that right there is a Description of Those the office of Elder being

Described in action in the New Testament, which would be at the presbytery level I mean,

I believe is a meeting of presbytery Which would mean that there is some sort of authority vested in the presbytery.

That's not Necessarily in the local church not that it's not there but that the presbytery itself has some sort of Authority it's more there's more to it than just the local church as far as the way

God has structured his His government to be because all the churches are being led by Or All true churches are being led by the

Holy Spirit So when they come together in common consent and prayer to to God God will lead them in the right direction now granted

Sometimes people will go off the rails and make decisions and you have errant decisions made by churches and councils

All the way down through which is why the Bible is still our only rule of faith and practice

But we we are to work and as a as a church body a greater church body

Towards the end that God be glorified throughout all of our churches. Mm -hmm.

I don't know if I added this question or Raised it differently But you cut you were kind of stepping into the waters of a question that come to my mind that I wanted to ask

After you described the this process that that you've been going through starting for pastoral ordination in this branch of the

Presbyterian Church, so first I keep calling up a branch of the Presbyterian the nomination and so Tell us before you start talking about your process and describe the process

Tell us what the the acronym RPC and a stands for and and maybe how it got started little history.

Oh goodness, I'm That's one of the exams I have to take is a reformed Presbyterian history

Well, I mean, it's all church history, but there's definitely some reformed Presbyterian history mixed in there

The RPC and a stands for the Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America We are theological and actual descendants of the

Scottish Covenanters in Scotland so they were much of Psalm singing

Presbyterians over there and in Scotland. No, there's a whole history of fighting with Actually fighting taking up arms

Against you know Kings and others who Violated Their their covenant.

That's why how we got the name Covenanter Because we believe one of our distinctives is that we believe that you should or that it's right for a government to Recognize explicitly

Christ as its king and head so that The the government will work to protect the

Christian religion and To do so honorably to seek

Christ to Be the the one who informs their laws and how they work and they'll protect the church and the work of the church now it gets

Complicated sometimes people don't want to mix church and state and they are separate spheres

But the one should serve the other and likewise the church should Preach and form the legislators as to what

God's law is and what is his Morality is what God would have done in the world legislature then is there to Protect the work of the church and preaching the gospel to to the nation's

So with that in mind, we we had the solemn league and covenant drawn up and signed and it would they

Folks went back on it. They didn't like it after they signed it and so There was some some fighting and some people left and came over to America bringing that Scottish Covenant or heritage with them and It's grown

To I should know this listen,

I'm trying to count the presbyteries we have It's several presbyteries across across North America and Japan And then

There's other other reform presbyterian works that have been spreading across across the world we're sister churches with the

The Scottish Reform Presbyterians and the Irish Reform Presbyterians and there's there's other sister denominations as far as Reform Presbyterians go

That's it's not history. Well, I need to interject a question right sure right now because As you're going along a lot of information

Well as you're going along I'm piling up questions in my mind So I need I need to know are you gonna be okay if if you're describing something and I say, okay

Can you take a pause and let me ask a question for clarification? Sure, or wait to the end.

No, go ahead and go ahead and interject. Okay, so Let me try to remember them all now.

So The first one was Oh Reform Presbyterian Church, North America, right starting with the name itself if I was gonna think of a

Denomination that would that I would consider reformed. It would be the

Presbyterian Church Sure, so so Why? this branch of the

Presbyterian Church Why are they using the the term reformed in their official title?

When you're already known as reformed denomination, yeah, this one is actually twofold

One is because we're reformed we come we take come from the the Reformation same basic doctrines as John Calvin and and the rest on on down through we come from the reformed tradition another

Reason why we say reform it. I don't know. Somebody may correct me on this, but but we were over this is because we were

Reformed we were a church that through our history had been persecuted so much so we no longer had any ministers our ministers

Back up we didn't have any ministers that were ordained so that folks could partake in the

Lord's Supper and so Through through Long process of building up young men

Finally, they got together a group of men sent them down to the Dutch reformers on the the

European continent in order for them to be examined and ordained as Presbyterian ministers so really the church in Scotland was there and then it was squashed to some degree and then it was

Reformed so it was formed again. So it was really so those

For those two reasons were called the reformed or reformed Presbyterian Church in North America So here's my next question

You use the term you're related to the Scottish Covenanters and you and you did kind of explain what that meant a little bit and one of the reason why

I'm asking these particular questions is for Clarification that some people may not know what you're talking about.

I'm I'm wanting to sharpen what I think you're saying To make sure I'm understanding it right and correctly because this is this is you a lot of terminology

That's right. And this is unique to This particular denomination and as compared to the other denominations, so When you say

Scottish Covenanters these these Scottish individuals countrymen

Formed covenants with their government. Is that what you're saying? Right. Yep.

Okay wrote up the let's see. I've got a copy of it here It's called the solemn league and covenant

Let's see what I should know that you're off the top of my head I'm gonna have to learn this before For my test somebody's gonna ask

Let's see it was It doesn't say

But it started off like this says a solemn league and covenant for reformation and defense of religion the honor and happiness of the king and the peace and safety of the three kingdoms of England Scotland and Ireland and it goes on to Say a bunch of stuff about The church's role the government's role and then the the

The the three nations and the churches they're actually actually entered into a covenant with The government the church and God that they would act according to God's Word and Rulers didn't like being restricted like that and so they went back on their promise basically they they they

Signed the covenant in order to gain political support. It was a stunt instead of Something serious to them and The actually the book

I was reading from makes a solid fairly solid case as to why England is still bound by that covenant, even though they

Have gone away from it, but I'll leave that for another time. We've only got an hour. Gotcha Yeah, and I definitely do what this is so fascinating and interesting and it probably does help us understand this denomination and as it

Relates to the ordination process, but just one more question before we get in that process Just so that we because this term

I think it's probably gonna come up again So just so we know we know what you're talking about you

You made the comment use the term presbyteries and you said that you have this many presbyteries and even one in Japan.

So For a Baptist or somebody else, what do you mean by presbytery?

All right a presbytery is a Let's let's use some

Baptist language. It's an association of Local like -minded churches now, we don't have that many

We don't have that many churches in our denomination, I mean, I think I forget how many we have but it's it's not a ton

And so our presbytery has Let's see. We've got one in New York City One in Boston Providence, Rhode Island two in Philadelphia Ours here in Walton one in Hazleton one in White Lake New York one in Coldenham, New York.

Oh, man, if I'm forgetting somebody Please don't feel offended

But but the presbytery is when It is the body where those churches send delegates of their elders to meet together in order to conduct business in the church now that business is

Either a review of judicial cases so say There's been church discipline.

If you are insured under church discipline in a Baptist Church If the elders speak and they say you have done wrong

That's it in a Presbyterian Church You were able to appeal to the presbytery to go back and review

The case know all the minutes from the case In order to make sure that things were done properly see that it it that their ruling comes down with what scripture says

Also the presbytery They'll look over the minutes from each other's session meetings to make sure that you're not going off into heresy so when we have session meetings about once a month, we will

Write things down in minutes that we review each other's minutes to make sure that you know

Oh, this church over here is doing something just heretical say something and then the

Couple other things that they do You know working together to plant churches or or doing different mission works or works of mercy but I guess one of the one of the bigger things that they do is that they

Get together to train Train examine and ordain men for the ministry

Basically what what the presbytery does and that's In our denomination you have two delegates every teaching elder is a delegate and then one of your ruling elders also comes as a delegate and Then I believe if you have over a hundred members

It may be for every hundred members after that you get an extra delegate I'm really not not entirely sure.

I know that if you if you're over a hundred you get an extra one I don't know beyond that not many of our churches have more than a hundred members

We're a small bunch. Well, I think the words Association for the

Baptist is is a good way to help us relate. Sure. However You're speaking of another body another group we have a comment

I Didn't the comment lines are open Colin Andre. What denomination is he?

That's what he is asking the rpc na our

PC and a Yeah, I hope we answer sorry, sorry for the late notice there, but we appreciate you watching thank you so much

You feel free to ask any other questions that you have my friend but when it comes to Presbytery versus Association, so our but political or authoritative

Structure stops at the local church. Sure. You're saying that yours goes beyond the local church as far as policy politics

Authority and it even goes beyond the presbytery level. Okay One step up from that and the rpc na is called

Synod so it's when You send the the same delegates

To a national meeting and all the all the presbyteries come together and do business as a full denomination

Gotcha. So I would like for you just because I'm so curious to hear what you have to say after you describe the process of the rpc na and what you're going through what they expect of you and How you'll finish it and what you'll do when you finish

I'd love to hear all that and we've got a PCA brother That's that's watching and listening

Is this process? similar the same as the other branches of the

Presbyterian Church and Then if we have time at the end this thing that you're describing that where you have authority or part of the polity going beyond the local church is there a biblical case for that and And what would you say that biblical case is

I'd love to hear your perspective on that So let's start with the process because that's that's what this series is all about the the process of pastoral ordination

How did you specifically personally? Desire it and get started and then then just go with the flow and describe the process.

Oh, man me personally It's a it's a big it's a big question

Real quick on on this brother's question. I believe RPC na pastors are members of their congregation and their

Credentials are held by the Presbytery. I Believe is how they word it now.

I may want to I mean watch double check on that though Especially because I'm going through the process

So Me personally, I I'd felt the an internal call into the ministry since well even before I came to know

Christ I remember Every time a missionary would come or a pastor would pray that no the raise up Preachers in the church.

I always thought we know that that should be me not I didn't Necessarily believe the gospel even but I was like, well that should be me, you know, well

Dan why I couldn't tell you I had no idea So after I I did come to faith what

I was talking to one of my pastors and he said, you know, you really ought to go to Bible College and Just start start some theological education

So I did that ended up Being asked to work with a few different churches throughout

New York and South Carolina Five long story short.

I served for a while as a pastor of a Baptist Church Left the

Baptist Church Shortly after leaving there gained some Presbyterian convictions found a solid

Presbyterian Church and started attending That's the first step in being ordained in the

RPC and a is to be a part of it So I started attending

Met with the elders and they just wanted to see no why are you here because I when

I showed up I showed up not to a To a proper congregation, but to a preaching station.

It was the it's the our church plant work that we're working on now Found out that they were gonna start up some services and and went met the folks and ended up joining the church

It's about an hour away from us And just talking over things with them they wanted to see you know, if I had any skills or desires any whatever they

Talked with me examined me at a few session meetings and over a course of a excuse me

Maybe a year trying to think a year or so Then I was brought to a

Presbytery meeting Just to kind of see what was going on six months later

I was brought back and the the process started when when my pastor had put into the minute to the the business of The presbytery that it would like me to be brought in under the care of presbytery as a theological student

So what that means is that the presbytery would then take a special interest in me In what

I was studying what I was doing and that they would begin to examine To examine me to see if I would be eligible to receive a call for ordination

So There's a lot of words there. So what what what that means is, you know,

I'd felt an internal call Now the church is examining me to see if I should be eligible

No is are you? Qualified are there any holdups?

do you know your scriptures enough to be able to go to a church and be a pastor there and then if I'm eligible to receive a call a

Church could call me and that would complete the the ordination when I was actually installed as pastor there

So let me back up and say I just wanted Get some terms Defined While I was at the start

So that they had me stand up in front of the presbytery meeting and I was taught

I Shared my testimony They prayed for me asked me a few questions.

I Had a good time there That was in the spring of The spring of 2023

So in the fall of 2023 they had me come and Take my first two examinations

First examination was a sermon. I had to preach where I Preach a sermon and then all the members of the presbytery would give me feedback

You know positive or negative things that I can improve on and then they had to vote whether to Sustain or not sustain me.

So sustaining was a positive thing. You did well not sustain This guy should maybe go back and learn how to preach again.

I was sustained Unanimously, everybody thought that it was it was an acceptable sermon

Then I was examined under or for personal godliness Now in our denomination or our presbytery at least this was a two -part exam

The first part was fairly in -depth on Some very personal matters and that was done with members of the candidates and credentials committee

They they they went in they wanted to make sure that I wasn't hiding anything from them and then the second

That's a lot of what the Qualifications are in Timothy and Titus Yeah, those types of qualifications in men, which is

Good good to hear from from this denomination and and how they do things.

Yep Yep, and then the second half of the exam was done in front of presbytery where I sat down Right after I got done preaching and that I stayed seated up front and The the teaching pastor from our

New York City look congregation Asked me questions about my personal godliness, you know devotional habits and prayer habits and how

I treat this people and that people and what do I do when I'm upset and things like that for 30 minutes and Came down to the end and I was sustained on that exam as well

So now I have three more exams. I have to take one of which is a

Bible knowledge exam, which is just general basic knowledge about what's in the Bible a first -level systematic theology exam and A What is it?

It's a history paper Church history paper And if if I'm successful in those three exams,

I will be if I'm successful in those three exams

Then I'll be licensed to preach So I'll be able to drive the car with a license as opposed to driving the car without a license.

I guess a Session you have you used that word?

I don't think yet, right? I may have our our Congregations elders we call it a session

Okay believe it's because we believe that our elders are part of the officers of Christ's court in this church and So when they meet together, they're calling they're constituting themselves as a

They're bringing into session a Bit of Christ's court in his church

And and these are all pastors elders of one local church of one local church, okay, okay

Yep, and then This session and this session get together That is called a

Presbytery, right? Okay, and then all the presbyteries get together. It's called

Synod Okay, and then you and then you get the different you get the different presbytery denominations together.

We call it NAPARC Which is oh goodness the North American Presbyterian and Reformed churches and Basically, we just get along with other

Presbyterians like there's a couple Reformed Continental Reformed denominations and then the

OPC PCA RPCNA We were friendly with each other and you would meet at that session

I don't I Be honest with you I know the least about NAPARC I just know that it basically if you find a

NAPARC church, it's a theologically conservative Reformed or Presbyterian Church Okay, so let's say just for example our

RPCNA and like our brother here PCA You guys wouldn't meet at a

Synod No, okay. Okay. No, in fact, I believe their their

Synod level is called General Assembly Okay Yeah, gotcha Thank you

Becky for that help. That was really good Really really good and this this theological examination is really excellent as well

Do you do we see that or have you seen that in Scripture? I mean, I can't deny that that's a good thing that would that we have theological examination for for pastors

Where would we find an example for that in Scripture? You find it in Paul's letter to Timothy he says study to show yourself approved or it means not to be ashamed so he is studying in order to be found approved and The approval in our case comes from the

Presbyterian level. Gotcha I can just imagine the Baptist denomination trying to put something like this together

I don't know that we can I don't know that we could come up with a consistent Examination sheet because everybody would have a different opinion.

Oh Well, I mean, you know, we've got the Westminster Confession of Faith and the shorter and larger catechisms and I tell you what, you'd think that we would we'd all be on the same page on stuff, but there are

Disagreements and sometimes it gets loud and raucous, but we always make sure to sing a psalm hug a neck and Love each other before we leave

No So we talked about the hierarchical structure and the

That's only to get licensed after your license to preach

Usually this all goes along with your your seminary Training usually your first year of seminary

You're just taking classes your second year of seminary kind of goes along with your first five exams

Then your second year of seminary usually goes along with your second five exams. Now the second five exams are

Another sermon there's an exegetical paper a second -level

The systematic theology exam a Oral church history exam and Then you have to take a

It's a Shepherding and evangelistic gifts exam

So they run you through all sorts of different Scenarios and questions about what would you do in this counseling situation or this?

Evangelistic situation if you're trying to share the gospel In fact one of the questions my brother who you just passed all of his exams

He's waiting for a call in January we'll be giving him a call become our associate pastor

He He got asked the question, you know, how would you share the gospel?

Focusing not on justification but focusing on the aspect of adoption

And it was it was interesting to think through No, since adoption is one of the aspects of salvation, you know, how would you share the gospel by focusing it on adoption?

you maybe that resonates with somebody more than just You're a sinner. You need to be you need to have your sins forgiven

No, and laying it down as a as a matter of Law No, what does it look like to share the gospel when you're talking about reconciliation between?

the God in heaven and No, there's people on earth

To adopt them as sons. What does that look like? This is a good question I've been pondering on it since I know probably get the same one

I've also been pondering on it because it's a good thing to think about. Yeah at that point if you pass those five exams

That's ten altogether Then you are eligible to receive a call. So which means

Churches from wherever in our denomination Are you'll be certified as eligible to receive a call that?

certification goes out to The denomination so anybody any church in the denomination that's needing a pastor or looking for a pastor

Could conceivably call you to be their pastor So they present a call to the presbytery the presbytery then can either accept it or reject it

Like say they're like, this isn't a good fit for you. We know the church. We know you this isn't a good fit they can reject the call or they pass it on to the the the candidate the person who's pastor examinations and then if they accept

Then there's three final examinations for ordination, which is a third sermon

Another personal godliness exam, which is from what I understand to make sure that you are

You haven't been backsliding in the time that you've been taking your examinations and then you

You you have to affirm the standard the doctrinal standards of the

RPCNA including the Oh What is it? What's it called the the the reformed

Presbyterian testimony, which is a small commentary on the

Basically a small commentary on the Westminster Confession of Faith kind of flushes out a little bit more.

Mm -hmm And that's how you get ordained Well, if you are you pass those exams the last three

Then there's a service where the hands are laid on you and you're actually installed as pastor in in the church

Once you've been called to a church and that's that's Presbyterian wide. So conceivably you could be eligible for a call but not

Actually made a not actually ordained so so what they what they do is

It means that That you're not ordained to and Moves, you know,

I want to put this it's not like you're just or you can just be ordained now.

You're a pastor And then you're never in a church. In other words, they don't just bestow this this this church authority upon Just some guy who's not going to be a pastor of a church so he comes with the responsibility of shepherding a flock and teaching them on a weekly basis and Seeing them through tough times

It's not just something that you can go out there and obtain and and put in your back pocket say I have got the credentials

It comes with with great responsibility Because you are then no given charge to care for these people's souls

Right for you know, as long as you're you're their pastor so that it's

I Think that's why they do it It's not just something to have in your back pocket or a certificate to put on the wall

It comes with a real responsibility in Christ Church Now a noble responsibility.

It says that the one who Desires office of an elder desires a good thing. It's a noble thing Yeah, and that's very thoughtful.

It's a very thoughtful process very very biblically thoughtful and I can appreciate all of that that you have to go through and in the process that they have

When you talk about one going to seminary the question that I had was Are you referring to like an accredited university or when you talk about seminary?

Is that something that the presbytery puts on? No, it's well At the

RPC and a we have our own seminary It's called reform Presbyterian Theological Seminary I met the president of the seminary not too long.

It was at the spring Presbytery meeting he came and spoke a little bit.

His name is Barry York, I believe Our guy

Colorado I'm blanking on his name China knocks. Yeah, he interviewed him on family worship

Okay, great guy I'm from everything. I understand if I was going to seminary again,

I'd probably go there a great bunch of people and the

Denomination helps their helps their own folks through the process they don't want price to be a thing to To deter someone who's truly called in ministry

Okay, so they and they they hold their standards pretty high they're they're accredited through I Forget who

I don't think it's I don't think it's one of the no six

Big ones, I believe it's through Association of theological schools or So I forget but they have some standards then they're held accountable to The denomination as well.

They have to give a report every year at Sinod No saying how they're doing what they're doing what they're doing with the money all that.

I don't know how I got off on that I started somewhere Jim went on to plug our seminary

Well, I got one more question on that you were talking about the process and then that that those final steps where you are

Eligible for a call which means a church can Call you to come be their pastor and then you have that or final ordination process

So once you get there and this is another cross The only only term that comes to my mind right now is cross -pollination

Um Going back to the PCA our brother here that was with us the PCA Church or another branch of the

Presbyterian Church Once you make it to that that process or that stage in the process Would you be eligible eligible for a

PCA to call you and then get ordained? Maybe That's the thing each denomination is going to be like you you're

Your credentials don't necessarily transfer but If You're a part of a nay park church other denominations will look favorably on you know that they

They may still like say I was to transfer over to the PCA or the OPC whichever church was looking at Sending me a call their presbytery would have the right

I'd say the responsibility to examine me If that's the full gamut of examinations, then it's the full group of examinations if they just want to call you in and have you look at or and look at you and ask you questions for two or three hours, you know, just as a

Sort of a get it all done at once approach. That would be their prerogative, I guess

Depending on their their roles and how they how they do things, but it's not a one -for -one between denominations, but no, if you're

If you're in a nay park denomination, it does look at least favorably They're gonna you don't you always want to kick the tires yourself and look under the hood before you before you buy the car

Well, you were talking about exams that you have to take as part of this process I was trying to wrap my brain about What in it what exam with the

Baptist skip and and I believe I come up with with the exam that we would offer Our candidates and that would be the exam of what is your love language?

Oh goodness, what's a English or those those romantic languages,

I don't know That would be a very deep and in theological study that we would do on on what your love language is

That was that way you would know how to relate to the members of your congregation Oh goodness better that than asking what their

Enneagram number is Yes, I would say yes me

Love language exam would be pretty bad, but that would be even worse The only acceptable answer to what is your

Enneagram number is? I don't know. I don't know and I'll see you later Here's the gospel by the way All right, so Let's go back to Becky's post because that's gonna help us with my next question

Talk about what a session is the great face with her with that Santa hat on too. That's nice.

It's nice. Um, I Considered wearing mine, but I'll hold off pastors and elders of a local church at the session and then those guys get with other sessions and form the presbytery and then presbyteries get together and they

So that kind of helps answer this question. So within With let's start at the bottom

That's probably a bad term. Let's start with the local church level pastor and elder. Are there different positions or Everybody's equal.

Is there a lead main teaching pastor? What does that look like? Yes, okay

This is different across different Presbyterian denominations ours we

Don't know we we say that we have a two and a half offices in the church so we have

We have the deacon which we agree on just a deacon Then we have the ruling elder and the teaching elder know the ruling elder and the teaching elder on the session have the exact same authority

So when they go in When they when they go in to decide matters or to to make rulings or to make decisions

Each elder is on an equal Footing playing field with each other elder whether you're a ruling elder or a teaching elder

We do require we don't require the ruling elders to do all of these examinations

They are required to be examined by their own session and then elected by their congregation

Then they can serve as a ruling elder of a ruling elders in our denomination are not allowed to baptize not allowed to Administer the

Lord's Supper and they're they're not supposed to pronounce the benediction as a

Very frequently, I think they can do it on occasion Hmm. So what's the significant of that?

Well, why does the Presbyterian Church elevate the the benediction? because the benediction is a is a actual it's a blessing of The congregation a lot of times it comes from Scripture Sometimes I've heard it before in in our denomination where it there's scriptural language there, but it's just a blessing of the people

Of from the pastor so you want to make sure that if they're going to to give the benediction that it's something that is a hundred percent scriptural all the time and and you may have

You may have a ruling elder who is wise very wise But maybe stumbles over their words or hasn't formulated the way to say things properly

They just kind of I don't want to say hold it back, but they they treat it like it's an important thing.

So They they can pronounce the benediction

But they say I believe it says in our we've got a little blue book that says all of this in great length

Whether you want it to or not and It says on occasion Mm -hmm.

Okay, so the way you described the process of calling a ruling elder now that sounded very similar to How the

Baptist Church would call their? their elders all over Yeah, so so we got a good connection there

Now the Presbytery which is where the the different sessions from different churches Come together and form one body.

Are there different offices within the Presbytery? Yes, but no there there are different offices there but they're they're functional

Administratively functional not everybody's still on the same footing but we have a clerk a treasurer and a moderator

So the clerk writes and records everything helps it usually serves as the parliamentarian also

So make sure that we follow the right orders You know if we need to have a motion in a second and then a vote or if we can do something by calling consensus or whatever

That person will do that They're also the one who will process and give out the call that comes in from a church they'll come into the

Presbytery through the clerk and then it'll Go through its process and then be given to the candidate

By the clerk the moderator is the one who stands up front and make sure everything goes well he

Says hey, we're gonna sing this psalm. Let's pray. We're gonna do this now. We're gonna do that now

And then the the treasurer handles the money for the for the

Presbytery Okay, so and and I'm assuming that those who are in the

Presbytery Decide amongst themselves who we're gonna hold those positions Yeah And then if they if they call you to sit or stand before them each one in each person inside the

Presbytery Has the equal authority to examine you ask you questions Yes But it's the the moderator will moderate how that's done so you can't just go rug step out of line and do your own thing

Gotcha Yeah, okay That makes sense. And then same kind of same question deal with the

Senate is Is it same or different? Are there offices positions in the

Senate? Yeah, I believe it's just about the same thing You've got a moderator who's elected on a yearly basis a clerk or now the threat the treasurer thing

It gets a little bit more involved Because you talk about denominational stuff that's over a course of the whole organization

But basically, yeah, it'd be basically the same thing Okay Well, I get two last questions, is there anything that you would like to add?

Number one that you think we've left out that you would like people to know about this Specific branch of the

Presbyterian Church and then second the the final question What what is your advice?

to I would say a young man or an old man or somebody in between that is is

Dealing with that Internal call as you mentioned earlier having a desire to Seek pastoral ministry

What would your advice be to them? All right. So anything we left out no

This one kind of goes along with the advice if you have feel the opportunity to go to seminary

Who are you going through the process And you have a option of getting an

MDiv a Master of Divinity instead of a different seminary degree, maybe a

Master of Arts and Biblical Studies and a four -year bachelor's degree Do that because it makes it easier on your candidates and credentials committee because since I decided to cobble together my theological education across like nine years at four different institutions

They're they're really looking into my credits and stuff and I'm in uncharted territory and they're talking about what to do with me and stuff and it's it's just Make it easy on your committee and just just go to seminary that the normal way don't do what

I did But Advice to you to those who are seeking to become a pastor and elder

Number one pray about it I Can't stress that enough to pray about it

If you really feel that you have a call from God, then you know pray

No, he's either going to confirm That in you or or not or you're gonna confirm it in yourself when you shouldn't

So pray and then Be patient Especially if you're in a

Presbyterian denomination, it's going to take a while You're looking at three years of school two years of examinations working in your church on internships and They're gonna they're gonna put you through through the ringer

And it's it's all good. It will grow you and Through the whole process listen to your session listen to your elders

Talk to them Bother them get to know other pastors in in the

Presbytery Get to know the other ruling elders. There are some really really wise men who serve as ruling elders

Who aren't up there preaching every Sunday, but they have wisdom

That's they've honed it over years and years of seeing pastors come and go in the denomination

You're teaching elders have been through it themselves, but they're they're a little biased, you know, they've been through it they understand some things but Ruling others have been able to sit back and watch

There's some really wise men there listen to listen to your elders and Don't be afraid to take a step back if you need to You should always proceed with confidence that what you feel that God has called you to God has called you to but you shouldn't take it as something personal if your elders tell you to slow down or go in a different direction or Stop at this point or anything along the way because really they're looking out for the for your soul

They want to that but they would rather see you in in Eternal bliss with Christ than to see you in pastoral ministry and on your way to hell

They're they're not out there to to crush your spirits or ruin you they're there to help you and see you succeed so just be patient pray study and Develop a caffeine habit because you're probably

Everything except for that caffeine habit Well Since I did the last time and then well time for that and Jonathan did it

I'd love for you to share the gospel and then I will close us in prayer absolutely

The one of the things that I've been I've been in going through this process you're thinking about The elders are there to care for the souls of their sheep to see them

Brought home brought into relationship with Christ. I see that that relationship nurtured

It's a it's a family thing it's a it's a thing where You are a part of something else.

You're a part of the world You're a part of those who love sin and you're drawn to Christ There there's so many sins in this world.

So many Heartaches and pains so many things that separate us from God and make us alienated from him

We're all guilty of it. We all have have these things That we we do we think they're just evil and wicked

We need to be healed We need to have

Restoration we need to know that our Creator and the only way that that's going to happen is if that sin is removed if we were taken from the the place where we're at and put somewhere new and in that is

What God has done through Christ Jesus he has taken the sins of man placed them upon Christ Then taken you from this world and adopted you as his own son or daughter that's the essence of the gospel that those who were once in sin and sick those who are

Hurting and in pain will look to Christ and find healing and relief Through the gospel through the remission of sins through the the washing of the

Holy Spirit and through the cleansing of the blood of Christ and it's only through that that we can find a

A true peace enjoy in Knowing that God is ours.

We are his we've been made right with our Creator and that our sins have been forgiven That is the gospel

And that's good stuff So we we do we we hope this was an encouragement to you.

We we hope that you would yield to that gospel message and That you would share it as well.

If you have already come to know Christ as your Lord and Savior If you would let's pray.

We'll wrap this up father We we love you and we praise you and we give you all honor and glory because you you deserve it

You are the one and only true God. You're the only one and only living God. There is none other besides you

There's none above you. There's none beside you There's not even any below you or beneath you because they do not exist you are the only one you the

Self -existing one you you tell us that you existed for all eternity

You father the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit and we lift high your holy name and we celebrate the incarnation

The coming and we celebrate the Spirit who came

To make us born again to regenerate us To be our helper and we love you.

We thank you You are so kind and wonderful to us as Dan brought to our attention as People who do not deserve it.

We are What we do deserve is Your wrath and in your loving kindness you saw fit to show mercy on us

And we give you thanks we give you praise and we pray all these things in Jesus name.

Amen All right. Thank you guys for watching We really appreciate it the truth and love podcast if you would if you followed us followed us this long

Sorry, so late Give us a like a subscribe a share share with your friends.

We hope the series will be encouraging to you and to others Remember that Jesus is

King Go live in the victory of Christ to speak with the authority of Christ and go share the gospel of Christ.