October 23, 2023 Show with James Reff II on “Evangelism & the Sovereignty of God”

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October 24, 2023

October 23, 2023 James Reff II, Pastor of Grace Community Church of Chestertown, MD, who will address: “EVANGELISM & The SOVEREIGNTY of GOD” & announcing the East Shore Reformed Conference 2023 on the same theme: “Evangelism & the Sovereignty of God”

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:10: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:58: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:15: Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensirenradio .com.
01:20: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 23rd day of October 2023.
01:29: I'm delighted to have back on the program James Reff. He is pastor of Grace Community Church of Chestertown, Maryland, and he will address the theme of an upcoming conference he's having at that church,
01:44: Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor James Reff.
01:54: Thanks for having me. Why don't you let our listeners know something about Grace Community Church of Chestertown, Maryland.
02:01: Yeah, very good. We are actually a church plant through the
02:06: Bible Fellowship Church, mostly up in Pennsylvania area. We have several different churches and church plants throughout the
02:15: Delmarva region. We're one of two church plants here in Maryland.
02:21: I've been here for a number of years planting the church, Lord willing, we'll be able to graduate, become a full -fledged member of the
02:29: Bible Fellowship Church 2025 is our slated graduation date. And so we're here as a part of the church plant and we're trying to put on this conference just to kind of let people know who we are and hopefully introduce people in our communities and surrounding areas and people outside of there, too, as well to good, solid biblical reform teaching.
02:55: And what is the congregation that planted your congregation? Because I'm familiar with some of the
03:02: Bible Fellowship Churches here in Pennsylvania. What was it? What were you asking? Which specific
03:07: Bible Fellowship Church in Pennsylvania planted your church? We are, well,
03:14: I would say the Newark Bible Fellowship Church in Newark, Delaware, would be our... Oh, I thought you said
03:21: Pennsylvania, I'm sorry. Well, if anyone wants more details on this church, go to Grace B.
03:30: as in Bible, F. as in Fellowship, C. as in Church, Chestertown, wait a minute,
03:39: I'm reading the wrong thing. It's GCChestertown .org,
03:46: GCChestertown .org, that's correct, right? Yes, that is correct. I was reading your email address.
03:56: And we will repeat that information later on in the program. Well, tell us about this upcoming conference you're having on the theme
04:06: Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, which is going to be held November 3rd through the 4th at Grace Community Church of Chestertown.
04:16: Let's hear some more details about this. Yeah, so we're super excited to be able to partner with the
04:22: Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals to put on this conference. It's called the
04:27: Eastern Shore Reform Conference. And so we wanted to introduce people to good, solid biblical teaching, people who maybe were not quite familiar with Reformed teaching.
04:39: And so we sort of centered our theme throughout the years, at least for now, on the sovereignty of God and dealing with specific topics within that overarching topic.
04:50: Last year was on the sovereignty of God in general with Dr. John Curran. He did an excellent job.
04:57: And this year, we decided to continue with the theme for our second conference, Evangelism and the
05:02: Sovereignty of God, which we're super excited about. I think it's a very important topic that a lot of every believer should be, you know, interested in and passionate about, but just helping them to see how
05:17: God's sovereignty and man's responsibility to share the gospel with others, how they harmonize together.
05:28: Tell us more about your speaker. Yeah, our speaker this year is
05:34: Greg Gilbert. He's from Third Avenue Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky. I believe he's a senior pastor there.
05:41: And he's a part of Nine Marks Ministry. He's written several books through Nine Marks Ministry.
05:50: What is the Gospel? Who's Jesus? Can I Trust the Bible? I think is another title of one of the books.
05:57: So he's written a number of books through the Nine Marks Ministry. Of course, many of you are familiar with Nine Marks, Mark Dever, his ministry there.
06:05: So he's coming. He's going to speak at our conference on Friday and Saturday.
06:11: He'll have three different sessions. And the theme is the
06:17: I don't know if it's just a, quote, quote, coincidence or if it's intentional. The theme is the exact wording of the title of a classic book by J .I.
06:26: Packer, Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God. Is the format of your conference's discussion going to be following in any way
06:35: Dr. Packer's book? Or is that just, as I said, a coincidence? Well, it's not a coincidence.
06:42: I mean, it is. It's not a coincidence. It's we did borrow, obviously, from that book. I think that's a great book.
06:49: We actually have copies of that that we'll have available for during our conference. I think it's a book that every
06:54: Christian has to read multiple times throughout their Christian life. Mm hmm. The great book.
07:02: And maybe we'll get to some discussion of that. But so we did borrow it from that book.
07:07: Obviously, that was sort of the inspiration for our conference title. However, we're not strictly following that, you know, format.
07:15: Right. Well, if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own for my guest today,
07:22: Pastor James Reff, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.
07:27: That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com. Give us your first name at least.
07:33: City and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA. And this is a theme that we have addressed on Iron Trip and Zion Radio probably many times.
07:47: But it's a theme that I don't think you can repeat addressing too often because there is such great misunderstanding in Christendom in regard to what we as reformed
08:06: Christians or also nicknamed Calvinists, believers in the doctrines of sovereign grace, what we believe about the sovereignty of God.
08:15: There is much even slander against us, typically by people who have never read a single word of our confessions, who have never read the writings of the
08:29: Puritans or the great heroes of the Reformation or even the 19th century heroes of the faith like Charles Adams Spurgeon.
08:40: They seem to be just regurgitating things that they have read or heard from anti -Calvinists.
08:47: But even the phrase evangelism and the sovereignty of God, our opponents theologically would think that that is an oxymoronic phrase, especially in regard to what they think we believe about the sovereignty of God.
09:06: And evangelism, wouldn't you agree, one of the reasons why we who are reformed
09:17: Christians can boldly and confidently evangelize and be motivated to not give up when we don't see fruit immediately or even for a long period of time is because we know that the sovereign
09:33: God of all creation, of all heaven and earth, will not fail to save his elect and he commands us, his creatures, to evangelize as his means to bring this about.
09:47: Am I right? Yeah, I mean, I would wholeheartedly agree. I think that's what the scriptures teach.
09:53: They teach both man's responsibility to preach the words of Christ, to preach the gospel.
10:00: And yet we see that God is sovereignly in control even of the salvation of men, that God is the one who saves men, not us.
10:10: But we are the means or the instrument by which God accomplishes the salvation of his elect through the preaching of the gospel.
10:17: Well, we already have a question here from Penelope in Belmore, Long Island, New York.
10:25: Penelope says, what are your lists of do's and don'ts when it comes to evangelizing the lost in reference to this specific topic?
10:39: OK, well, that's a very broad question. What are the do's and don'ts?
10:46: I would say the first thing is to, well, don't get distracted, right?
10:54: So there are lots of things that you could get distracted by, but keep the main point, the main point. Try to keep on track with what the gospel is, not avoiding questions.
11:04: And I would say also, don't let go of the knowledge of God, the knowledge of Christ, right?
11:09: So I think one of the things that we can easily just kind of get off track and talk about all sorts of things, but we need to keep the gospel the main point and focus when we're out talking to others and sharing
11:24: Christ with them. So that would be the main thing. When you were talking about keeping the main thing, the main thing, isn't it true in your experience, as it has been in mine, when evangelizing someone who is lost, they very often make efforts to drag us into rabbit trails to keep us off that main topic of the gospel.
11:55: They want to ask every question that they think in their head is going to nullify the authenticity and reliability and trustworthiness of God's word.
12:07: And they're going to regurgitate things that they've heard from Bill Maher and other liberals and leftists and Christ deniers thinking that they're very clever.
12:20: And we have to resist the temptation to allow them to dominate the conversation, don't we?
12:29: Yeah, well, that's true, right? We want to always bring it back to the gospel. So I really appreciate, like Greg Gilbert, one of the books that he's written,
12:37: What is the Gospel? We tend to overcomplicate it, but it's really pretty clear.
12:43: It's easy. God, man, Christ response. So when I'm out sharing the gospel with people,
12:50: I use that as sort of roadmap, as a guide. So like I kind of just work through those steps.
12:57: And if I sort of find myself kind of getting off on a rabbit trail, I just get back on the next on ramp, get back on the highway.
13:03: So I want to help a person to see, number one, that they have sinned and rebelled against a holy, righteous
13:10: God. So I take them to God's law, show them how they have broken God's righteous commandments, that they have no standing before God, and then show them who
13:22: God is. So once they understand their need, then you can bring them to God, show them that he is holy and righteous and just, and he will not overlook their sin.
13:33: And then you can point them to the person of Christ and show them what Christ has done.
13:38: The fact that he came into the world, died for sinners, was buried and rose again. And then prompt them to a response.
13:45: Like, what are you going to do about this? And talk about repentance and talk about faith and trust in Jesus Christ. So if we can remember those things,
13:53: God, man, Christ response, then that's a pretty good roadmap for us not to get distracted by other things.
14:04: And wouldn't you say, when Penelope said do's and don'ts, some don'ts might be, and you can let me know if you agree or not.
14:16: Sometimes when we are having a conversation with someone who is not a
14:22: Christian, we can mistakenly start talking about our favorite hobby horses of theology that are not essential to the pure gospel discussion.
14:38: And we might overload people's minds with things that may be wonderful truths and important truths, but not necessarily something that's going to have a listener or hearer begin to consider the state of their soul and become aware of their urgent need to repent and so on.
15:03: I think that probably, or very possibly, we who are
15:08: Reformed, especially if we are in early stage in our appreciation and belief in these precious truths, also known as cage -stage
15:22: Calvinism, we could be more guilty of that than anyone, can't we? Yeah, right.
15:28: I mean, to be honest with you, we have to be careful, right, because there are conversations that we might have with people who are, let's say they do come to faith in Christ, there are conversations that we might have in house, right, that we might not.
15:42: We need to understand and realize that we're dealing with somebody who is lost, that this is an unregenerate person, and there are spiritual things which can only be discerned by those who have the
15:52: Spirit of Christ within them. And so this person needs, the main thing that we need to get back to is that they need to be, they need to submit themselves to Christ, right, they need to be born again, they need to know the saving faith of Jesus Christ.
16:09: And then, those conversations are things that can be had over a period of time, but the main point is that they need
16:16: Christ, and so we have to get back to that before we can deal with some of those others. So that's a trick sometimes, is not avoiding the questions, but yet trying to gently bring the conversation back to the gospel.
16:31: Yeah, and wouldn't it be wise, you know, it depends on what the conversation is and how it came up, what kind of providential circumstances brought about this conversation.
16:45: Wouldn't it be wise for us at times to say, I really want to answer that question, but can we just wait a little bit so I can just say what
16:53: I primarily want to tell you? Like, for instance, if some people start bringing up things that they think would in their minds make it clear that the
17:06: Bible violates proven tenets of science and things like that, you know, they will try to get you tongue -tied when it comes to proving to them a literal six -day creation, or I could go on and on with examples of what they might be asking you to attempt to bring the spotlight away from their soul and their urgent need to repent and trust in Christ, that we could say, hey, you know,
17:40: I love discussing creation, but can we just wait a little bit, let me just say what
17:46: I believe is most primary in your need right now, or something to that effect.
17:51: Isn't that a way that we can postpone properly certain issues without flatly rejecting or opposing the idea of bringing them up in conversation or answering their questions?
18:11: Yeah, I mean, we have to be discerning in this. I wish there was, like, just a, you know, one -size -fits -all answer as to how you deal with those things.
18:20: We have to be discerning, right? So there are some times when, foundationally, right,
18:26: I mean, like, none of us are neutral, right? We come to conversations from a worldview and a world perspective.
18:32: An unbeliever is coming from an unbelieving worldview and system where they've rejected God and denied
18:39: Him and His word. And the believer is coming from a perspective where we stand upon God as the, we presuppose
18:48: God and His truth. And so we are trying to open their eyes.
18:54: I mean, God's the one who opens their eyes, but we're trying to show them through the scriptures that what
18:59: God has said and how He wants us to respond. So it takes discernment.
19:06: But sometimes we do have to, unfortunately, we live in a day and age where the term
19:11: God or understanding of even who God is, it's foreign. So sometimes we have to even dig a little deeper and build that foundation.
19:20: We can't just assume like in biblical times where they had a concept, a proper concept of who
19:26: God was and a foundation so that Christ and all these other things that came after could be presented in a way that was meaningful and coherent.
19:35: We don't have that foundation in our country anymore. Sometimes we have to go a little bit further back to even help people to understand who
19:43: God is, like that He's holy and righteous and just, and He's going to punish sin and He's not arbitrary.
19:51: He doesn't just overlook these things. And sometimes you have to build that. You just have to know your, be able to read your audience or read the people you're talking to and be able to sort of adapt on the fly.
20:07: And unfortunately, the only way that can happen is through experience. So the more we do it, the better we get at it.
20:13: And we're going to encourage people who are like, well, I can't do that. Well, yes, you can. You're going to make mistakes.
20:20: And that's why we have to, you know, one of the comforts is when we talk about God's sovereignty, right?
20:27: God uses our words, even our mistakes and things that we say. You know, He uses them to grow us and mature us.
20:35: But also when we're faithful preaching the gospel, you know, God uses those things, even if we don't word it exactly the way we think we should or whatever.
20:43: We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says, don't you believe that humility is a very strong factor in our approach and evangelizing the lost so that they do not come up with the wrong idea that we are saying we are superior to them and we are instilling in them the notion that we are sinners just like they, but we have found the cure and the only rescuer of our eternal souls from our sin and our damnation.
21:19: Yeah. So humility is the big part. So my mind automatically goes to,
21:25: I say it's in Peter. It says, sanctify the Lord Jesus in your hearts, being ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you for the hope that was within you, yet with reasonableness and respect.
21:40: So there is a very clear principle that, you know, we shouldn't just go in there, you know, guns blazing and be disrespectful to people like, even people we adamantly disagree with, even people who are, you know, just flagrant or, you know, all sorts of things.
21:59: We should do, we should present the gospel, but do it with gentleness and respect for people.
22:05: So certainly humility is, you know, we don't want to, the gospel is offensive, right?
22:12: It's a stumbling block to the Jews and offensive to the Gentiles. Yet, we don't want our words to be offensive to others, right?
22:22: The way that we present it. You know, we don't want to add unnecessary offenses of our own on top of the gospel that already offends.
22:32: Yeah. And our offenses could be, and very often are for the wrong reason.
22:41: Going back to humility, wouldn't it be a wise approach?
22:47: Now, of course, there are different kinds of evangelism. You could be evangelizing. You could be doing outdoor open air street evangelism where you're talking to a crowd of people.
22:59: And there is also sitting next to somebody in the hospital waiting room or sitting next to somebody on a plane trip or bus ride, or, you know, more of a one on one or you speaking with a very small group.
23:18: There's going to be a difference because speaking to a large group, evangelizing to a large group, there would be even a different approach, perhaps, of raising the voice and speaking with more boldness than you might if you're just having a one on one conversation.
23:37: But going back to the humility aspect of when you are having those one on one conversations or with small groups, a handful of people.
23:48: To demonstrate that humility, wouldn't it be wise to make it clear that you want to know about these people?
23:57: You want to ask them questions about their lives, any questions that they are comfortable answering.
24:07: You know, tell me about yourself. Tell me about what you do for a living and on and on we could go. And to demonstrate that you're really interested in them and not just winning a trophy for Jesus.
24:20: Yeah, I think it's important when you're again, this comes to down to like knowing your audience, knowing who you're talking to.
24:27: It takes time and skill, I think, to develop them over a course of time.
24:33: But certainly anything you can do to break the ice, anything you can do to break that tension and to sort of kind of help them to let their guard down a little bit to have that conversation is great.
24:47: So family, talking about family, talking about kids, talking about pets. That's a big one.
24:53: Like people love to talk about their pets, you know, just being genuine about it. Right. I mean, so like genuinely wanting to know about, you know, something personal or something.
25:03: You don't get too personal, but, you know, something about that person that they're interested in. And you can oftentimes pick it up if, you know, if they're walking down the street with a dog, you know, talk about their dog and tell them how cute their dog is, you know, and, you know, just trying to find something that you can connect on that human level.
25:21: And just so that put them at ease and then, you know, then look for, you know, those on ramps.
25:28: Right. To bring that towards the gospel conversation. So. We have to go to our first commercial break, if anybody would like to join us once again, our email address is
25:38: Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com, as always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.
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33:36: James Reff, pastor of Grace Community Church of Chestertown, Maryland. We are addressing evangelism and the sovereignty of God, which is also the theme of the upcoming
33:46: East Shore Reform Conference being held at Grace Community Church of Chestertown, Maryland.
33:53: And if you have a question for James, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.
34:02: Let's have your responses to the age old question from non -reformed, non -Calvinist brethren in Christ, who will say, why do you even bother evangelizing if God, before the foundation of the world, has chosen those whom he will save?
34:27: And he's going to regenerate them in his own good time, and he is going to bring them to faith and repentance by his sovereign power.
34:38: And they will certainly go to heaven. Why are you even evangelizing at all?
34:44: And for that matter, why do you even pray for their salvation? Yeah, so the simple answer to that question would be because God commands us to do so, because we have a divine command from God, and we are responsible to God for sharing the gospel with the world.
35:08: So the Great Commission, Romans chapter 10, 1
35:14: Peter 315, which we talked about earlier. So we could just stop right there, and that would be enough.
35:21: But also because we understand that if God ordains the ends by which he is accomplishing, which is the salvation of the elect, he also ordains the means by which he accomplishes that.
35:37: And that is through the preaching of the gospel, which from Romans 10.
35:44: I'll turn there real quick. Romans 10, verse 17. So faith comes from hearing and hearing through the word of Christ.
35:53: Well, how are they going to hear the word of Christ? It is through believers, through those who have faith in Christ, who go out and then preach through their speaking the word of Christ.
36:07: That's how they hear of Christ and the gospel. So that verse talks about how shall they believe on whom they have never heard?
36:15: How are they to hear without someone preaching? How are they to preach unless someone is sent? How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news?
36:24: It's very simple. God's called us to do it, and the means by which he accomplishes the salvation of his elect is through the church, through the church sending out us as individuals into the world to preach the gospel.
36:39: So what was the second part of your question? Well, I just added into that mix the fact that people who are opponents to what we believe will also include in that challenge to us.
36:53: Why do we even why do you even pray for the salvation of the lost if God has already foreordained or predestined those whom he will save?
37:03: All right. Yeah. Why do we pray? Well, I would, again, say that it's because we believe that God hears and answers prayers, and we believe that God works through those things.
37:19: I love what Packer talks about in his book, Evangelistic Sovereignty of God. He goes in and he just really just dives right into it.
37:29: He says, you know, he proves that any time we pray that we even the person who is more on the
37:39: Arminian side, more free will side of things, even they become
37:46: Calvinists or believe in the sovereignty of God when they pray. Right. You know, hey, they don't pray to that person to save themselves when they pray.
37:56: God save this person. And why do we pray like that? Why do we pray to God and say, God, save this person?
38:02: Because we actually believe that God saves because that's what the scriptures tell us. And we believe that God hears our prayers and that they are that God is the one who is, you know, busy about saving people.
38:16: So even the person who is totally, you know, against, you know, Calvinism or reform teaching or whatever it is, they're totally on the
38:25: Arminian perspective. Even they when they pray would be more on the reform side because they pray to a
38:32: God whom they know saves men. Yeah, I believe Packer's exact quote, or at least close to his exact quote, because I don't have it in front of me, is that all
38:44: Christians are Calvinists on their knees. Yeah, I've got it right here.
38:53: And if he didn't say it in there, he said it somewhere. Introduction to the first first couple of pages of the book, but I don't know that exact quote that you're talking about there, but.
39:05: But one one example of that very thing. I don't know if you remember who
39:12: Ergin Kainer was. Ergin Kainer was the president at one time of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary.
39:23: A rabid anti -Calvinist. And one evening,
39:29: I believe he was preaching to the students. And the theme of his sermon was a mocking theme and it's wording why
39:42: I was predestined not to be a Calvinist. And it was really a horrible sermon that wasn't even based on exegesis of the word of God.
39:54: It was it was really bad. I mean, even at one point, he shocked me because I'm sure most of those folks listening, especially
40:06: Jerry Falwell, would have had enough knowledge of the Bible that they would have recognized that what
40:15: Ergin Kainer said in regard to Romans nine was was absolute heresy.
40:22: He said and he yelled this at the top of his lungs. Why did
40:27: God love Jacob and hate
40:33: Esau? Because of what they did when the text clearly says that had nothing to do with that.
40:40: Before they were even born, God loved Jacob and hated
40:45: Esau. But but after that horrible sermon,
40:51: Jerry Falwell demonstrated exactly what J .I. Packer said about Christians unconsciously being
41:01: Calvinist when they pray, even if they're Arminian. Jerry Falwell started off by congratulating
41:09: Ergin Kainer on preaching a wonderful message, which was mind boggling that he did. And then he started praying.
41:15: I mean, I don't have the words, the transcript of his words of his prayer, but I remember it was something similar to,
41:23: Lord, please open the eyes of those who are spiritually blind who are listening. Please, Lord, give them new hearts.
41:31: And, you know, he's going on and on. Praying is exactly according to the theology of somebody who believes in the doctrines of sovereign grace.
41:38: Right. As if we can give somebody a new heart. Yeah, right.
41:44: And so that's why he even for recognized he had to pray to God to do that.
41:51: And in fact, when people have asked me, why do you even pray if you believe
41:57: God for ordained or predestined everything that's going to happen? I ask them,
42:02: I turn it around on them. Why do you pray to God for the salvation of the lost? What is he going to do?
42:08: Right. What is he going to do that he hasn't already done? And, you know, it doesn't make any sense according to their scheme of theology.
42:20: Yeah, and it really true in a practical sense. It aligns the will of God with our hearts, with God's will.
42:28: Right. So when we pray, we're praying to a sovereign God who desires and does save men.
42:38: And so when we do that, it changes us and it gives us compassion and hearts for the lost so that we will then have a desire to go and just preach and teach and speak the gospel to to the lost.
42:53: And so it's very appropriate and that when we go out, you know, when we go out and do an evangelistic meeting or go out someplace that we pray before we go, because.
43:00: If God doesn't work or move, then, you know, our words are not going to convince them.
43:08: It's it's the spirit of God that has to be there moving, regenerating that heart, you know, causing them to be born again and giving them eyes to see and to enter the kingdom of God.
43:20: So we pray for that. And we just pray that God would move and work and in their in the people's lives.
43:27: And so and then we go and preach the gospel to them. Now, there are a minority of those who profess to be
43:38: Calvinists who are indeed accurately labeled hyper
43:43: Calvinists. Unfortunately, many of our non Calvinist friends call anybody who truly is a
43:51: Calvinist a hyper Calvinist. So there's really no need for that hyper. When they condemn people who just agree with the theology of Calvin because they think it's biblical to call them hyper
44:07: Calvinist is somewhat nonsensical. But there are those and it's a minority of people who believe that we only evangelize when we see some kind of evidence that the
44:23: Lord is already working in their hearts and minds. And that they are perhaps politely inquiring about our beliefs and about salvation and so on.
44:37: But we do not believe that at all. We are commanded. Are we not to preach the gospel to everyone whether they think that they're saved?
44:49: That could be somebody in the Bible belt who is from a long line of Bible believing
44:56: Christians in their ancestry. They might even be the child of a pastor, but they could be as lost as somebody on death row.
45:06: And we are to evangelize everyone with the gospel.
45:12: And even when Christians, those who are already regenerate, those who are born again, hear the gospel.
45:20: It's always a blessing in some way to their lives to hear that wonderful old story once again.
45:28: So that's one thing that we must differentiate ourselves from is the false notion that we only preach or evangelize a certain group of humanity.
45:41: Yeah, that's true. So we are supposed to be seed scatterers, right? So we scatter seed indiscriminately.
45:48: So we go out, we preach the gospel to anyone who will listen. And God is the one who prepares the soil of the heart.
45:56: And he's the one who, you know, some people come along. I think it's first Corinthians, you know, some water and others reap the fruit of that.
46:08: But we just preach the gospel, right? We don't have a map. We don't know the hearts of men. You know, it's not like somebody illustrated.
46:15: I don't know who it was, but like, you know, like, it's not like they have a tag on the back of their shirt, right? Saying, you know, elect or non -elect, you know, like we don't know those things.
46:24: God knows the number of the elect, but we don't. And God has called us to go and to preach the gospel.
46:30: And so as long as we have an audience, as long as people are there to hear, then we have an obligation to preach the gospel.
46:38: And God is the one who does the saving. Let's see, we have
46:46: C .J. in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York. How do you exegete the passage in Matthew 10, 14 through 16, which says,
46:58: And whosoever shall not receive you nor hear your words when you depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
47:07: Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
47:15: Some people have, I believe, wrongly interpreted this to mean that once you have evangelized someone and they reject you, you are not to waste your time repeating your evangelism to them.
47:29: I do not agree with that. Do you? So I think we have to be discerning.
47:38: I think there is a point in time where, you know, if we go to somebody and they're not willing to hear, the question we have to ask ourselves, and I think according to this passage is that there is probably a point in time
47:49: I think you can even show passages where Jesus did the same thing. Right now, we don't know the hearts of men, but in the parable of the rich man who came to Jesus, right?
48:00: Jesus said, the guy came up to him, the rich man said, good master, what must there be to be saved?
48:07: And Jesus took him back to the law, right? And after he presented the law, he said, you know, all these
48:12: I kept for my youth. And Jesus said, one thing you lack, go sell everything you have and give to the poor.
48:18: And the text indicates that he went away sad. And we don't know anything about what
48:23: Jesus interacted with him after that. What we, you know, we can just,
48:29: I guess, speculate that, you know, like Jesus didn't like, you know, come running to him, say, oh, no, you know, ask me into your heart, you know, come, you know, he said none of those things.
48:40: He didn't even really, as far as we know, mentioned anything about, you know, his, you know, his death or anything like that that was coming, you know.
48:48: So I think we have to be discerning, right?
48:53: And willing to to walk away from a conversation. I've been in conversations where you're talking to a person and you can tell they're just hostile.
49:01: They're not willing to listen or hear. And rather than just continue to, you know, create a tense environment argument.
49:08: I just, you know, say, you know, if they're willing to take information or attract or something, I give it to him. I say, thank you very much and have a good day.
49:15: Then I move on and seek to talk to somebody else who is or at least appears to be willing to have a conversation.
49:22: So I think there are times when we have to be willing to walk away from a conversation. And even if, you know, many times
49:31: I've, you know, if I felt like, let's say I'm talking to them and I'm sharing sin, right?
49:36: I'm like talking to them about the law, trying to trying to appeal to their conscience through the law and show them their sinfulness.
49:42: If they don't acknowledge their sinfulness, if they're like coming up with every excuse in the Bible to justify their own sin, then what are they going to do with Christ?
49:51: Right. I mean, like they don't even acknowledge that they have a need. So what would be beneficial to present
49:58: Christ when they, first of all, don't even acknowledge that they have actually sinned against the holy, righteous God? So those are times when
50:04: I'm honestly willing just to, if they're not willing to acknowledge that, you know, my time is better spent talking to somebody who is willing to acknowledge that, who is willing to have that conversation.
50:16: So, you know, I'm open to later on if a person comes, I'm not simply shutting the door to that person and saying, no, there's never a, we'll never,
50:26: I'll never talk to you again. But just being discerning. So I think that is in the context of sending out the disciples.
50:36: You know, there's a point in time where, you know, they went into a home, if they received well, then they were to stay there to receive the food that they and the hospitality that they received.
50:47: But if not, there was a judgment against them, shaking off the dust of their feet.
50:53: That was a sign of judgment for having rejected the gospel. And of course, the wording of that text indicates clearly that he is, that the
51:10: Lord is referring in his God breathed word that these were traveling evangelists.
51:18: They were not. He was not instructing people to treat their own families with whom they live or their neighbors next to their homes in that way, because how many of us have come to Christ the very first time that we were evangelized?
51:37: Now, I know that that happens. I've heard testimonies of people who the very first time they were ever that they ever heard the gospel, they were saved.
51:45: But most people I know, including myself, took years before the
51:52: Lord gave us new hearts, opened our eyes and ears, and we saw that these things were true and we repented and embraced them.
52:01: So obviously, if you evangelize your lost mother and she says, will you please leave me alone with this
52:11: Bible talk? We're not supposed to say I'm never going to do it again, mom. You know, yeah, there is a difference between that and a traveling evangelist going from town to town.
52:21: Right. That is true. Right. So I hope that answers his questions as best
52:27: I can. Now, it's been a little while since I've looked at the text. I know it's in Luke as well.
52:33: There's a similar passage, but it is interesting. Some reform people think that even though the
52:39: Bible never gives us a detailed description of that young, rich ruler becoming saved later, it does say that Jesus looked upon him and loved him.
52:51: That's true. So you never know what eventually happened in the life of that young man.
52:58: Well, we are going to our midway break right now. And please keep in mind, folks, that the middle break is longer than the other breaks in the show, because Grace Life Radio Radio 90 .1
53:11: FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to localize.
53:19: I interpret Zion Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida, where they're located. They do so with their own public service announcements and other local things.
53:28: They air in the middle of our show while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.
53:34: So please use this time wisely. Please write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.
53:48: And when you can't buy their products, use their services or visit their churches, there's one thing that everybody can do who's listening, who really loves the show.
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54:22: And of course, use this time to write questions to our guests today and send them to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
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54:37: Don't go away. We'll be right back right after these messages. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.
54:56: Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
55:05: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.
55:14: One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.
55:22: Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
55:31: Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
55:36: Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.
55:42: Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the
55:48: Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great
55:57: Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,
56:09: Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.
56:15: For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.
56:21: That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Or call 678 -954 -7831.
56:28: That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them
56:33: Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sends you.
56:52: When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
56:58: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
57:06: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
57:11: NASB. This is Darrell Bernard Harrison, co -host of the Just Thinking podcast, and the
57:17: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tom Budd at First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the
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58:03: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr, pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the
58:10: NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep
58:16: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?
58:22: Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
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01:11:44: I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today. James Ref on evangelism and the sovereignty of God.
01:11:53: That's Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence.
01:12:04: We have an anonymous listener who says my Roman Catholic family will tell me that the very verses that you were quoting from earlier regarding the young rich ruler where Christ is telling him in order for him to achieve eternal life.
01:12:22: He must keep the law and also sell all of his goods to the poor, that that is a biblical basis for a salvation that includes the deeds of men.
01:12:34: How do you refute that? And while my guest is looking up something,
01:12:42: I will repeat our email address. Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.
01:12:50: I'm sorry. Well, I think when we look at that passage, certainly
01:12:55: Jesus is trying to hit to the heart of the matter. You know, this man was, you know, by all standards, not perfect in the sense that we think perfect, but he was good at keeping the law, which there are others in scripture who are good at keeping the law.
01:13:13: But yet they had, you know, Jesus was hitting to the heart of this fact that this man loved his riches more than he loved
01:13:21: God. And, of course, that's obviously a violation of the greatest commandment. Love the
01:13:26: Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength. So clearly, Jesus was showing this man his need, the fact that he felt that he was self -righteous, right?
01:13:36: That he was righteous because he kept, you know, at least what he thought was the letter of the law. So it's not at all commending, you know, works righteousness.
01:13:48: In fact, if anything, it's Jesus was trying to show this man his absolute need, the fact that he loved his riches more than he loved, loved
01:13:58: God, loved Christ. So I don't see how at all when you, you know, especially when you turn to other passages in scripture, which clearly, you know,
01:14:06: Paul's clearly talking about how righteousness does not come from the law.
01:14:11: Right. Justification. We're not justified according to the law. We're justified according to faith in Jesus Christ.
01:14:17: So when you look at the overall test arching testimony of scripture, it's clear that we're justified by faith in Jesus Christ, apart from works of the law.
01:14:26: So, you know, I think you have to take this passage in context, but you also have to examine the larger context of scripture as a whole.
01:14:37: There are many other passages that would clearly not allow that interpretation of this passage of scripture.
01:14:43: Christ was giving information to this young man that caused him to examine his life.
01:14:54: And it was revealing that he was not willing to give up all to follow
01:15:02: Christ. It wasn't that he was telling him how to earn salvation. He was just just like the the separation of the sheep from the goats.
01:15:15: All those things that the sheep did do and the goats did not do were not ways that they either earned their way to heaven or things that they rejected doing that they needed to achieve to earn their salvation.
01:15:33: It was giving people cause to examine themselves as to whether they were bearing the fruit of salvation and giving evidence for it.
01:15:43: Right. Yeah. I mean, I mean, honestly, a lot of the even the Pharisees, religious rulers, like they thought that they were self -righteous.
01:15:52: And in many ways, they were good at keeping the law. But yet they did not love
01:15:57: God, which is, you know, the scriptures. Jesus goes over and over and over and talks about, you know, like he tells them, you know, you've heard it said, do not commit adultery.
01:16:06: But I say to you, you know, if you have lost your heart, you've committed adultery. He says, you know, if you have hatred in your heart towards your brother, you're liable according to the law.
01:16:15: So many of them, even though externally we might say they were good people, even though they actually had broken the law, they didn't love
01:16:26: God and they and and they didn't truly obey the intent of the law, which was the first and greatest commandment, which is to love the
01:16:35: Lord your God with our heart, soul, mind and strength. So even this young ruler was being dishonest or ignorant of his own life because he said that he had never committed adultery.
01:16:52: And yet, as you were saying, even if we lust for a woman in our mind and heart, we have committed adultery already.
01:17:00: So, you know, and he certainly didn't at all times love his neighbor as himself.
01:17:08: And we could go on and on and putting a microscope over all these things that he claimed that he accomplished successfully.
01:17:18: He was over overstating his own righteousness. Right. Jesus was getting to the heart of what he truly loved, which was his riches, and showing him that this, you know, is the stumbling block because you love your riches more than you love me, that more than you love
01:17:38: God. So that was the heart of the matter of Jesus. And the listener, the anonymous listener, used a phrase that is not in the text.
01:17:49: I don't know if that was an accidental typo kind of a thing, but he said that Jesus was telling him how to achieve eternal life.
01:17:59: But that's not what the text says. Achieve gives the indication of earning by something that you do.
01:18:08: It simply says if you want to enter life so that that is a difference.
01:18:17: But anyway, thank you, Anonymous. And by the way, Anonymous, if you are a first time questioner and that goes for our other listeners who submitted questions,
01:18:26: I recognize some of the names, but not all of them. If you are a first time questioner, you have won a free
01:18:34: New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com.
01:18:43: So let me know if you are a first time questioner so that CVBBS .com can ship out that new
01:18:50: New American Standard Bible to you. And in your own life as a pastor who evangelizes and even just as a
01:19:03: Christian, because you were a Christian before you were a pastor, can you tell us about anything that we should remember when it comes to evangelism that might make us especially apprehensive?
01:19:20: Even the best of us. At times, are afraid of hurting people's feelings, afraid of losing friends.
01:19:31: Might even be afraid of being setting ourselves up for losing employment by being honest about the gospel.
01:19:43: And of course, none of those things comes even remotely close to what some of our brothers and sisters in Christ and other parts of the world are experiencing when they're being brutally tortured and murdered for their faith.
01:19:55: But even the best of us for what would seem to be the least serious reasons, even frivolous, sometimes we get apprehensive about telling the truth about what the word of God has to say.
01:20:11: Can you give us some practical guidance from your own experiences about how to overcome those things, perhaps?
01:20:20: Well, I would say I don't think it ever, those feelings will ever, for me at least,
01:20:26: I've shared the gospel with lots of people. And we do so on a regular basis at our church.
01:20:33: We have like a farmer's market ministry. We go out to the market and pass out tracts and different festivals and different things.
01:20:39: And even just, you know, I try to make a habit of getting out of my office and going to the coffeehouse to study there.
01:20:46: And there I get to meet a lot of people and share the gospel with people. But I think just, well, for one,
01:20:54: I would say we need to remind ourselves that, you know, 1 Peter 3 .15, right? Yet do it with gentleness and respect.
01:21:01: So we're wanting to be respectful and gentle and not offend people needlessly. But then beyond that, we need to realize that we need to move beyond ourselves.
01:21:11: Right. So it goes back to the commandment. Love the Lord, your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. Right. Do we love God more than our reputation?
01:21:18: Do we love God? You know, not that we didn't want to offend people, but we have to learn to, you know, really move past ourselves and realize that, hey, you know, we're called to do this.
01:21:33: God wants us to do this no matter how we're afraid, if we're afraid or we think we're going to mess up or whatever it is like if we love
01:21:40: God, then we're going to be obedient. We're going to obey his commandments. We're going to follow after him. We're going to do the things that he's called us to do, which is to understand our responsibility to preach the gospel to us.
01:21:52: So I don't think it ever goes away. Right. That those nerves, those that awkwardness that, you know, there are things you can do to minimize them and to help.
01:22:04: But just realize that, you know, I just you know, every time I go,
01:22:09: I just what drives me is number one, my compassion for the lost. Like I just God is placing my heart of burden.
01:22:18: Right. These people are lost. They need to hear the gospel. And then secondly, just to to move past yourself and realize, hey, you know,
01:22:26: I can make a complete fool of myself and, you know, fumble all over myself. And that's
01:22:32: OK. You know, if I've communicated the gospel effectively, then
01:22:37: I have been faithful to what God has called me to do. Amen.
01:22:44: And we have a listener in I don't know how close
01:22:49: Salisbury, Maryland, is to you. That's about an hour and 20 hour and so south of us.
01:22:58: OK, well, perhaps they will make the effort to attend this conference that you're having. But Janie in Salisbury, Maryland, asks.
01:23:10: In evangelism, do we need to include in our presentations specific things that are teachings of Calvinism?
01:23:19: I'm talking about those unique things. Obviously, there are things that Calvinism has in common, even with Arminianism when it comes to the gospel.
01:23:28: But I'm talking about do we need to include predestination and total depravity and other things like that in our evangelism?
01:23:39: I can't remember. I can't give you an example of when I've done that, really. I mean, maybe
01:23:44: I've done that before. I don't think that I think
01:23:49: Calvinism is a consistent understanding of how the gospel has come to us. The salvation like Calvinism is about soteriology, right?
01:23:58: How Christ has saved us and the sovereignty of God over that. But I think those are in -house discussions, not discussions like I can't remember the last time that I've ever shared the gospel.
01:24:09: Somebody that I have mentioned Calvinism or even anything. I don't I think that.
01:24:15: Well, I can give you an example from my own self. I believe that I was a Christian long before I was a Calvinist.
01:24:21: I came to faith in Christ and not that I would ever call myself an Arminian, but I certainly wouldn't have said
01:24:28: Calvinist. It was later in life that I became convinced of these things. So I don't think that Calvinism or any particular
01:24:36: Arminianism or any of those things is essential to the core tenets of the gospel.
01:24:42: An Arminian can be saved. The point is faith in Jesus Christ. And so I would say have those discussions in -house, have those discussions with other believers.
01:24:56: But don't make it central to the gospel. Not that they're not important, but.
01:25:03: Mm hmm. Well, as far as intentionally leaving out things that are uniquely reformed.
01:25:12: That can also be, I think, problematic if you never bring up things that are perhaps uniquely reformed, because even
01:25:23: Jesus Christ. When he was proclaiming the truth and the gospel, he said, no one can come to me unless the father draws in, for instance.
01:25:35: And, you know, so you'll have people outside of the reformed faith who don't believe that or they twist it to mean something that Jesus never meant by it.
01:25:48: Right. And, you know, Jesus telling the
01:25:53: Pharisees that they don't believe because they are not of his sheep, his sheep hear his voice.
01:25:59: They know him and they follow him. You know, those are things that are even though an Arminian, obviously, who looks at the
01:26:07: Bible, who believes in the inerrancy of scripture will say, I, of course, I believe it. Jesus is saying that, but they're really redefining everything he's saying.
01:26:14: Right. So so don't we also have to be careful about not including things like that when, you know,
01:26:23: I mean, I'm not saying that they have to be in every. Every every effort of evangelism, because Jesus didn't say the same exact thing during every time he declared truth, and neither did the disciples.
01:26:37: But but there are people there are people who would say, you know, that we shouldn't bring these things up at all.
01:26:46: Well, I think we you know, I am careful about my wording of things when
01:26:52: I talk to people. I would I don't typically shy away from the conversation. So if somebody is willing is but it's usually in the conversations, there are probably a few times
01:27:02: I've had those conversations, but it's because someone else has brought it up. It's not something that I would typically mention in a gospel presentation.
01:27:13: It might be a conversation to have with someone else who either is, you know, is a believer or is familiar with those things and brings that up.
01:27:23: So I certainly yeah, I agree with you. I don't I'm of the understanding persuasion that, you know, we shouldn't shy away from those conversations.
01:27:33: But as far as like bringing it up as a part of the gospel. I don't do that.
01:27:40: And let's see here. Got a another listener in Paducah, Kentucky, and Frederick in Paducah, Kentucky, says, isn't one of the great dangers of evangelism is to be too caught up or concerned over numeric success.
01:28:11: That's true. I've unfortunately been in a lot of settings where that is how evangelism is taught, sort of like getting a notch on your belt.
01:28:23: To be honest with you, when I go out and share the gospel, you know, some people have this, you know, this is the method that I use.
01:28:30: But some people go and say, hey, you know, after they presented the gospel, hey, will you say this prayer?
01:28:37: Right. And they lead them in a prayer. I rarely do that, to be honest with you. I call a person.
01:28:44: I will even, you know, say, you know, talk about repentance and faith and we get to the end faith in Jesus Christ, repenting.
01:28:51: And then I'll ask them, you know, when do you think you'll do that? You know, when do you think you'll put your faith and trust?
01:28:57: Those things. And unless I have a sense that they are like really, you know, really sensitive or really, you know, there's been a few times where I will pray with them.
01:29:10: Right. So I'm not shy about praying with them, but. I usually don't really you know,
01:29:15: I'm not concerned about numbers, right? I'm concerned about faithful preaching of the gospel. If I've done that, if I have gone and faithfully communicated in a gentle and respectful way and loving way the gospel to a person, then
01:29:31: I have effectively evangelized them. And, you know, I want to give them an opportunity to respond. And I also want to get an opportunity to have a further conversation with them.
01:29:43: So if I sense that they are really are genuinely, you know, repentance and have faith, then
01:29:50: I will have a further conversation with them. But you have to be kind of discerning again.
01:29:57: Right. What is this person? Right. So you may go through the whole gospel presentation and they're just not. And you may be able to, you know, get them to say a prayer.
01:30:06: Right. But have you really is has this person really truly been converted?
01:30:11: Right. If it's I mean, it's easy to manipulate those things. It can be.
01:30:17: And so I don't ever want to do that. So, yeah, it's not about numbers. It's it's about being faithful to what
01:30:25: God's called us to. And and we want people. Right. So I want to see people come to faith in Christ.
01:30:30: I want to see people repent and put their faith in Christ. Right. Because that means more people to glorify
01:30:36: God the way he's he's made us. Right. That's what we're created for.
01:30:42: But not at the expense of just saying I check off, you know, to to get another number.
01:30:48: I don't honestly keep track of any of those things. I couldn't tell you. So, yeah, the and of course, there's a huge difference between praying for someone.
01:31:01: Right in their midst, right on the spot when you're evangelizing them and leading them in a prayer, because I know that our non -reformed friends would never admit that they are teaching that these words are like some kind of a magic spell that saves the lost.
01:31:22: But very often our non -reformed friends treat those kind of prayers in identically that way.
01:31:32: They will tell the person, repeat after me. And they will say, you know,
01:31:37: I am a sinner. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe that I need Jesus's death and burial and resurrection for me to be saved.
01:31:47: And, you know, they're having the person repeat these words and then saying, typically, if you really meant that you are saved, you are born again, without a doubt, et cetera, et cetera.
01:31:59: Yeah. And they are treating it just like a formula that somebody that saves them just because they're saying it.
01:32:09: Right. Which is exactly the way people get initiated into conversion to Islam by repeating things in Arabic and so on.
01:32:24: So we have to be very careful about, as you would even use the word manipulate.
01:32:33: And that seems to be the most dominant and popular methodology in evangelicalism.
01:32:41: And there are evangelicals who say if you don't do that, if you don't have a so -called altar call or invitation for people to come forward.
01:32:51: That you have no compassion for the lost and you are blowing the opportunity, even after a good sermon that your
01:33:01: Calvinist pastor may be able to preach. You're just totally blowing the whole significance of it because you're not doing an altar call.
01:33:10: They treat it like it's a third sacrament or third ordinance in the church. It's nowhere to be found in the scriptures, that kind of way of conducting yourself.
01:33:22: Right. Yeah, I think we want we want people to respond to the Spirit of God. And, you know, if God's working in a person's heart, then he's working in their heart to lead them to faith or to a decision or whatever it is.
01:33:39: I've sat in a lot of like even evangelistic teachings before where it was like that.
01:33:45: It was like, here's this formula. You go knock on the door. You say this, you know, like almost like a written script.
01:33:50: And you pray to the person at the end. And it's like, if you do this, you will, people will get saved.
01:33:57: And I'm just like, is that really how it works? Right. Is it just like they wouldn't say that.
01:34:05: Oh, yeah, that prayer doesn't a prayer doesn't they would acknowledge that a prayer doesn't necessarily save somebody just by saying some prayer.
01:34:11: Like it's a magical thing that they're saying. But but yet practically, that's how it kind of works out.
01:34:17: Right. This is the formula. This is what works. If you do this, you're going to produce converts and just don't see that in Scripture.
01:34:25: You know, you don't see that at all. And. Yeah, so.
01:34:32: And as far as the numbers, as the listener was asking about being so concerned about numbers can be dangerous, that is probably one of the greatest reasons why evangelicalism has tragically become known for candy coating the truth.
01:34:52: And that the the desire of seeing great numeric responses to a presentation from a pulpit or from some other platform is far greater than honoring
01:35:07: God, far greater than the desire and the commitment to honor God by declaring the truth, no matter how the chips may fall, as they say.
01:35:18: We are not supposed to make the presentation or the declaration of biblical truth more palatable than the
01:35:28: Bible makes it. We're not to make it easy to go down like, you know, sweet syrup are supposed to be giving the bad news, which is the only thing that makes the good news really, really good.
01:35:47: And it's the bad news is what makes the gospel and what makes grace amazing, isn't it? Right.
01:35:54: Yeah. Right. I mean, I'm sure many of our listeners probably know Ray Comfort, but he's got a good, good, you know, series and videos and different things that I would encourage you to watch.
01:36:06: But, you know, he talks about in one of his sermons that, you know, like a doctor will do everything he can to convince you that you're sick.
01:36:16: Right. But then once you convince that you're sick, then you see your need for the cure.
01:36:22: Right. So unless a person is right. So in light of the darkness of our sinfulness, right, the gospel then shines.
01:36:33: Right. So we have to see just how exceedingly sinful we really are before we can appreciate what it is that Christ actually did for us.
01:36:43: Amen. Roy in Bloomington, Indiana, says,
01:36:48: I have heard some reformed pastors say they never give an invitation of any kind from the pulpit during a worship service.
01:36:59: They leave evangelism to the members to do outside of the four walls of the church and that their only obligation as pastors is to instruct and encourage and edify and train up the true believers who are members.
01:37:16: Is that a biblically sound approach to being a pastor? You know,
01:37:23: I've heard a very small minority of reformed people say it, but I have heard it. That's something very similar anyway.
01:37:31: I would say there needs to be some balance here. Right. So I think when you look at scriptures, I think in Corinthians, you know,
01:37:38: I think Paul does acknowledge that there are times when unbelievers will be in the church. And so when certainly
01:37:44: I think it's very appropriate when there is a clear, you know, I mean, they think the scriptures are all, you know, climbing that hill, especially in the
01:37:52: Old Testament towards Christ. And then in the New Testament, they're Christ centric. But so it all points to Christ.
01:38:00: But yet when there are those clear, like if you're preaching on a clear passage that is, you know, clearly the gospel is there.
01:38:08: It's appropriate. Right. That we would I mean, I don't assume that everyone even who comes on a regular basis.
01:38:14: In fact, I know several people who sit in our come week after week after week. And they refuse to submit themselves to Christ.
01:38:24: They refuse. They've rejected the gospel. And so I would preach the gospel to them. I would give them an invitation, you know, not necessarily like an altar call, but I would call them as a part of an application.
01:38:36: Maybe during my sermon, I would point them to the gospel and, you know, encourage them to put their faith and trust in Christ.
01:38:42: So I think, you know, even having sometimes there are visitors who are unbelievers. And so I think it's appropriate.
01:38:52: But, yeah, I don't think it's necessarily every single time you're up there and you do a sermon that you have to give a full fledged gospel presentation.
01:39:02: I do see our primary responsibility as pastors to equip, encourage and edify the church to send them out into the world.
01:39:12: And that's the primary way that God evangelizes the world is through the equipping of the saints to do the work of ministry.
01:39:20: What you can very easily get into with that mentality is that, oh, it's the pastor's job to preach the gospel to my neighbor.
01:39:28: So I'm going to bring him to church so that the pastor can preach the gospel to him. And that's not biblical either.
01:39:36: So so we have to be, you know, balanced in our approach. Yes, we preach the gospel in a general sense, a general call to the people.
01:39:44: But understanding my responsibility as a pastor is number one to equip, encourage, edify those believers that are there so they can go out and do the work.
01:39:54: And my responsibility is then to model that so they go to my neighbors. Right. So my responsibility is towards my neighbors and my friends and those in my scope.
01:40:03: So I have a responsibility beyond the pulpit to go out into the world and to evangelize the lost as well.
01:40:11: So we have to we have to balance those things. And of course, it's not only the visitor who has been coming every
01:40:23: Sunday for maybe even years, who hasn't yet made a credible profession, has not yet requested baptism.
01:40:33: You could have elders and deacons who are lost that have deceived you and the entire congregation.
01:40:41: They need to hear the gospel as well. And as I was saying earlier, Christians need to be reminded of the gospel over and over again.
01:40:49: In fact, I remember I don't know if you know who Peter Jeffrey was. He's he was a
01:40:55: Welsh pastor and evangelist and author who was actually a personal friend of mine.
01:41:00: He's now in eternity with Christ. He passed a number of years ago, but he even wrote a book called
01:41:07: Christians Need the Gospel, too. There is a false dichotomy of many people in their mindset that the gospel is only needed by the lost.
01:41:20: That's not true. Yeah, there's another good book that I've read, which
01:41:26: I've given to our people regularly. The Gospel Primer. I want to say what his last name is.
01:41:32: You probably know what it is, Whitmer or something, but the Gospel Primer. But it's another book that really presents,
01:41:40: OK, like as Christians, we need to preach the gospel to ourselves daily because the gospel is about, you know, as believers.
01:41:48: We are called to live lives that are consistent with gospel preaching.
01:41:54: Right. So if our lives are not consistent with the gospel, there's something clearly wrong.
01:41:59: If we profess Christ and yet don't live lives consistent with with the gospel.
01:42:06: So, yeah, we charge our people, you know, so the gospel is just as relevant to believers as it is to unbelievers.
01:42:14: So, yeah. Amen. And we're going to go to our final break right now.
01:42:21: And if anybody has a question of your own, I would suggest strongly that you send it in immediately because we are rapidly running out of time.
01:42:31: Our email address again is Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com.
01:42:37: As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.
01:42:44: If you live outside of the USA, only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, that's
01:42:52: Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. We'll be right back. Please don't go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.
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01:45:31: where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
01:45:42: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
01:45:50: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
01:45:56: I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the
01:46:02: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the
01:46:10: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Sule Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the
01:46:19: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the
01:46:26: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the
01:46:34: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Steve Herford of East Fort Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the
01:46:42: NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of the
01:46:48: Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
01:46:54: Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew
01:47:00: Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:47:12: Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.
01:47:27: I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.
01:47:32: I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love.
01:47:39: Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.
01:47:46: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim
01:48:03: Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
01:48:11: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.
01:48:20: For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
01:48:26: That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.
01:48:35: That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:48:50: Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.
01:48:58: Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
01:49:09: They specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone.
01:49:16: CVBBS has been a family -owned book service since 1987, operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
01:49:22: They seek to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices.
01:49:27: Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because, frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.
01:49:38: That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors.
01:49:50: Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
01:49:57: Order online at CVBBS .com. That's CVBBS .com.
01:50:03: Or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231.
01:50:10: That's 1 -800 -656 -0231. Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.
01:50:20: Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study?
01:50:28: So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's Word in those smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.
01:50:38: It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the
01:50:44: Word of God and is built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the
01:50:51: Bible. Hi there, my name is Jordan Tew, and I am the Executive Director of the Baptist Publishing House.
01:50:57: Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources.
01:51:03: Our quarterly curriculum is titled the Baptist Expositor, and for good reason.
01:51:09: We are Baptist, and we exegete the scriptures. If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the
01:51:15: Word of God, I invite you to go to our website, download a free study, BaptistPublishingHouse .com.
01:51:22: May God bless you. I'm Brian McLaughlin, President of the
01:51:39: SecureComm Group, and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.
01:51:46: The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, close -circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.
01:52:00: We custom install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off -site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices.
01:52:10: From simple code -activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the
01:52:16: SecureComm Group has it. We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems.
01:52:23: In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network.
01:52:30: Whether it's a Wi -Fi or hardwire network, we'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.
01:52:38: I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners and their associates.
01:52:46: For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.
01:52:58: That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit securecommgroup .com.
01:53:06: That's securecommgroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining
01:53:12: Chris Arnzen's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air.
01:53:24: I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.
01:53:33: Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the
01:53:44: Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.
01:53:50: It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.
01:54:01: Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
01:54:13: For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.
01:54:21: For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,
01:54:29: heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the
01:54:34: Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Peiffer of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you.
01:54:42: And remember, folks, you've been hearing ads every day for the Historical Bible Society.
01:54:48: Don't forget that that organization was founded and is run by my dear friend,
01:54:54: Daniel P. Betafuoco, attorney at law, a serious injury and medical malpractice attorney.
01:55:00: So if you are the victim of a serious accident or medical malpractice, no matter where you live in the
01:55:06: United States, please call Dan at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com,
01:55:15: 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com, no matter where you live in the United States. And please don't forget to mention that you heard about that law firm,
01:55:23: Betafuoco and Associates from Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with James Reff.
01:55:31: And, James, don't you think a lot of what we have been discussing today, not perhaps everything, but the core of what we are discussing comes from a very important verse in 1
01:55:47: Corinthians chapter 3, starting in verse 7. I mean, isn't that really spelling out the essence of what we are discussing today?
01:56:11: Yeah, I think that does. We don't know what our role is in those things.
01:56:17: I mean, we know our role is to preach the gospel, but we don't know whether we're planting seed. We don't know whether we're watering.
01:56:24: But we do know that God is the one who provides the increase. So unless the Lord is there, unless the Lord is the
01:56:30: Spirit of God, is working in a person's heart to regenerate them, prepare the soil to hear the word so that it can be received and take root.
01:56:41: You know, that is the point of what we're talking about. So God is sovereign.
01:56:47: The sovereignty of God and salvation means that God is the one who actually saves people. That's all that Calvinism is about, right?
01:56:53: We're just saying from beginning to end, God is sovereign over all things, including the salvation of men.
01:57:02: Amen, and I want to make sure that our listeners have your contact information so that they can not only visit your congregation during a normal Lord's Day, but also to attend this upcoming
01:57:18: Reformed Conference on the theme Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God.
01:57:24: The website that you can go to for more details. First of all, if you want more information on the actual conference, you can go to AllianceNet .org.
01:57:37: That is the website for the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. AllianceNet .org
01:57:43: and then click on events and then you can scroll down to where it says
01:57:50: Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, Eastern Shore Reformed Conference 2023.
01:57:56: And the church website of the church where our guest today, James Ruff, is the pastor,
01:58:03: Grace Community Church of Chestertown, Maryland is GCChestertown .org.
01:58:12: And I want to thank you so much, Pastor Ruff, for being such an excellent guest today.
01:58:18: I look forward to your return to this program for other conversations with us here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:58:26: And also, I want to remind our listeners, if you really love the show, folks, we can really use your help financially because we have never bounced back after the hysteria of the
01:58:41: COVID crisis began to bring about some unconstitutional and insane mandates upon our citizens.
01:58:54: It simultaneously occurred when our giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio from our listeners plummeted and we've never bounced back.
01:59:07: So we really could use your help. Go to IronTripandZionRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.
01:59:14: And of course, you can send in checks made payable to Iron Trip and Zion Radio at the physical address, if you prefer that, sending in checks via snail mail.
01:59:25: There will be an address that also appears on your screen when you click support at IronTripandZionRadio .com where you can mail those checks.
01:59:33: I want to thank everybody who listened today. I want to thank especially those who took the time to write in questions.
01:59:40: And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.