Social Justice & the Gospel with Dr. James White

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00:01

Non -rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it.

00:08

Are you going to bark all day, little doggie, or are you going to bite? We're being delusional. Delusional?

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Delusional's okay in your world view. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.

00:21

So you calling me delusional using your world view is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. She hung up on me.

00:33

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

00:45

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

00:53

Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pastor.

01:00

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

01:22

What's up, guys? Welcome back to the Gospel Heard Around the World. This is Apologia Radio. I'm Jeff.

01:27

They call me the Ninja. You guys can get more at ApologiaStudios .com. That's A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A -Studios .com.

01:35

We're back with another episode. Exciting episode today. I'm super thrilled to do this episode. I can tell.

01:40

I am. Very, very excited because of the topic. I think it's an important topic. The discussion is necessary.

01:46

Needs to be heard. And we have a very special guest in the studio today. We're going to tell you a little bit more about that.

01:51

But first, I'll introduce over here Luke the Bear. What up? And that's Joy the Girl. Hello.

01:57

And she is holding another human being in her right now. Make sure you say a prayer for her. She's holding it.

02:02

Holding it. And growing it. And growing it. That's right. And over here we have

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Dr. James White, which we don't have an official pet name for Dr.

02:14

White yet. And that's usually your job. Yeah. To come up with that. It's going to take a while. It might take a while.

02:20

We're trying, yeah. Who is, so welcome. Good to be here. Who is also

02:26

Pastor James. We're trying to get used to that. That's the weird, yeah. That's the weird thing for us.

02:31

Yes. Very long relationship. Not feeling it yet. Yeah. Two decades. It's always been Dr. James White.

02:36

When I'm teaching and mentioning things, referencing, or telling people, it's always Dr. James White. And now, if you haven't heard yet, it is official.

02:45

Dr. James White has been a member of Apologia Church. And now he has officially joined the eldership of Apologia Church.

02:53

And is now one of the elders at Apologia Church. And will be doing the official installation on,

02:59

I don't even know where I'm at. June 2nd. June 2nd. June 2nd. June 2nd is the official installation. But he's

03:05

Pastor James. So welcome. Maybe that'll just be it. Pastor James. PJ. The Elder Elder. The Elderly Elder.

03:11

The Elder Elder. Elderly Elder. Elderly Elder. And welcome that old guy, Dr. White. Just the old guy.

03:17

You can get away with it. I can. You can get away with it. Yes. Okay. So welcome, welcome.

03:22

What's up? The deacons were thinking about Punkle. But I was like, I'm not sure. Punkle James. Punkle James. Yeah. That's my vote right now.

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That can end up working against us. In context where we need a little more respect.

03:35

Yeah. Great. During cross -examination, Punkle James, it's your turn.

03:44

Alright, guys. So welcome to our live audience. Make sure you guys share this across your social media platforms. Very important discussion we're going to have today.

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We are going to talk about the issue of social justice. The gospel justice.

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The word of God and justice. The issue of justice. Hot topic today. Very important topic today. And we have to have a consistent answer as Christians.

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An answer that's consistent with the biblical worldview. The Christian message. Specifically the gospel itself.

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This issue of justice. I'll just start here and let you guys jump in. From my perspective, it's a tough moment because...

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Sorry about all that stuff happening on my computer here. It's a tough issue before us because God does care about righteousness.

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He does care about justice. He's spoken and given his own character. He's given us the reference point in terms of how we're to view the issues of justice.

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God is the one who gives us the foundation to be concerned with the issue of justice in the first place. What are all these humanists, what are all these atheists doing talking about justice when their worldview can't make sense of the call to justice and righteousness in a society?

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When you tell people that they are the random results of processes that didn't have them in mind and they're just bags of stuff floating through a purposeless cosmos, what's the point of talking about justice?

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Who cares about justice? What's with all these people that don't hold a biblical worldview being concerned with justice? You have to adopt

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Christian standards of a concern for justice and human value and dignity and equality.

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Adopt those standards, drag them over into their worldview, and then use them against the Christian worldview.

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But there's always a distortion and perversion before it even comes back. This is an important issue because we're facing something.

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I've said this to Pastor James many times in the past. When I was watching

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The Dividing Line back in 2002, 2003, and 2004, I think, somewhere in there, you started to talk about a folder you were keeping on your computer and you were just talking about all the degradation happening in society around us.

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You were just keeping a file of all the new stuff and talking about how this rapid pace that we're going, that we're losing so much ground and this stuff's coming so fast.

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And I've said to you so many times, I didn't take you seriously. Then you said, I don't know if I took myself seriously. But here we are in 2019, and oh my goodness, who would have thought back then we'd have gay mirage, we'd have all the gender confusion that is just now part of pop culture.

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If you don't accept it, you're in trouble. If you don't accept it, you're the bad guy. We even have an issue, you know,

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I'll just toss it out there. We don't have to talk a lot about it. But in terms of, as much as I see Steven Anderson as a dangerous man, as much as he's dangerous theologically, what happened to him this past week was a horrific and scary, terrifying thing.

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For Bank of America to shut down his bank accounts, it's a scary thing.

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We'll send you a cashier's check later. We'll send you a cashier's check. We're going to shut your accounts down with our business.

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And what's it surrounding? It's not surrounding what I'm concerned about with his view of man and sin and God's gracious gift of salvation and his power to save and God's sovereignty.

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They're not concerned with Calvinism. Like Bank of America, isn't it like, you don't hold to the five points and so you're losing your account, young man.

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They're doing it because of other things and the culture's complaining. And that's a dangerous thing.

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We're in a spot now where we're in trouble. We're facing rough days ahead, I think, if we don't, as a church, be a solid witness and light and trust in God and his grace and mercy and our culture to open hearts to the truth.

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The issue of social justice. Joy's going to help us a lot today with this, so I'm glad you're here, Joy. This issue today, we talk about intersectionality and all the things that are part of pop culture and becoming definitional for us.

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So, I'll pass it off to you guys. That's the introduction to our discussion today. Very important. Social justice and the gospel.

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That's what we're doing. You know, I brought up the issue because of the fact that, especially over the past number of months since I've been here and now, as of last

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Sunday, we announced that we get to refer to each other as pastors, which is sort of an odd thing, how we exactly do that.

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But I am 16 years older. That's right. That's why you call me the elderly. We are obviously involved.

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What was it? Two weeks ago that we went to the Phoenix City Council. That was the first time

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I had spoken and I spoke on the issue of what American forces had done in a situation once they liberated the

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Buchenwald concentration camp and how we made people from Weimar march through and see what had been done right under their noses.

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And one of the things I said was we would say that what they did was a just act.

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Yeah. Okay, but how do you define that? And so we're talking about justice for pre -born children.

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We're talking about where people would say and in fact, I've had a number of people say you should never, ever, ever preach another pro -life sermon unless you were involved in the promotion of social justice.

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The problem is we never get a definition of it. And what's happening is and what's happened to me and I was mentioning this with the elders over lunch.

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I said a little over a year ago I'm texting Summer going what does this word mean?

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What is that about? Because all of a sudden the door got kicked in last spring in the church and here's the problem what came running through uses our lexicon but has redefined the terminology based upon critical theory.

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And the vast majority, certainly of my generation is clueless.

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We're sitting here and we see Ekamini Uwan at the Sparrow Conference. Are you guys going to do anything on that?

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I don't know. I would highly recommend it. I haven't talked to Summer about it.

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I feel like maybe we did have something planned. Yeah, that would be a really good idea because it's a woman's conference, it's about peacemaking da da da da da da da da da and this woman is sitting there, a graduate master's divinity graduate from Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia That's what blew my mind.

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Is sitting there talking about the wickedness of whiteness and that it's something you need to repent of.

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Now people in my society, in my age group are sitting here going, how do

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I repent of whiteness? I don't get it. So there's obviously something more going on here and younger people who have already been in the university classrooms and things like that, they've already been getting the foundational stuff like this and the problem is they're accepting what they've been taught within the university framework and then when they come to the church they start using that as a filter through which to read the scriptures

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Right. And so you generally have older people doing the proclamation from the front that don't understand what those filters are and then the younger people it's creating a massive divide that is going to result in a huge division in the church and it already is resulting in a huge division but much more so as the years go on.

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I've talked with reformed men older than me and they're like, this isn't going to affect us and I'm like you're not going to be here forever someone's going to end up taking your pulpit someday and they're being trained in seminaries that are already buying into all of this stuff.

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The speed with which this has come into our seminaries is astounding. Now don't get me wrong don't get me wrong, there are a bunch of people in our seminaries that see the danger and but they're they're in a situation where they can't speak out because it's the leadership that has already been deeply impacted and I could go into some of the reasons for that follow the money donations have been made from big, big, big outside the

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United States sources that has led to all this it's not that it happened so fast it's just that we noticed that it happened so fast.

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This has been being planned for a long time I know, I sound like a conspiracy theorist You sound like a conspiracy theorist. I know exactly what you're talking about and it's the truth

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Did you say from Big Soros? That's one of them, but there are others and so there's been donations given to set up professorships and all the rest of this stuff and if you've got the big box seminaries that have huge budgets whether you've got students walking in there or not you need that external money that stuff's going on, but the point is

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I had never heard I think it was Summer that explained to me what intersectionality was. I didn't know what it was I mean, this was not something that was taught in seminary when

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I was in seminary Nope, nope and until you get a grasp on what critical theory is, not just critical race theory, there's critical gender theory and family theory and you can put critical put almost anything in between it and put theory at the end and you'll have somebody who's already written a book on it in some gender studies program someplace once you understand what critical theory is then you can hear

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Ekamini Uwan who was the woman who said you need to repent of your whiteness and you can at least sit back and go, okay the best interpretation

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I can give of a Westminster seminary graduate saying you need to repent of your whiteness, because I don't remember that from any of the apostles

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I don't remember anything of that that can even come close from any of the No. Okay, so Do you think they knew a lot of white people?

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No, I was just thinking that. Well, that's just it Yeah, there wasn't any white people See, in those days See, when we talk about whiteness now in this context the best interpretation is that you're talking about power, structural power and oppression

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So, white privilege in those days would have been Roman privilege So it wouldn't have been connected to a particular skin color it would have been a social status

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Whiteness just means you were the most power -holding powerful, authoritative race that there was.

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Which is why this is so confusing to people outside the United States or Western culture When we export this to South Africa or some place like that, it is poison

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It is absolute poison. What we're hearing, what we're hearing from Ekamini even though she's

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Nigerian or whatever the tribe she actually identified with. Well, that's her colonial That's the colonial tag What we're hearing from her is a very

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Americanized version of these things It does not have global application because you can't take this to China White privilege in China is

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Chinese privilege Really, all white privilege is majority privilege. So if you have a majority in a country, they're going to design things for their benefit.

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And so if you come into that situation, if I as a white man try to go live in Zaire I'm going to be in the minority and I'm going to be outside of that realm of quote unquote privilege.

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So the problem, here's where the problem is They don't remain consistent with that definition.

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Because when they then speak to the black experience it becomes very much something that flows from their ethnic experience.

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So if on the one hand you say whiteness, it doesn't really have to do with your skin color, but then you turn around and say the antidote for that has something to do with skin color

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How do you hold these things together? There's a conflict there. You can't make heads or tails out of it.

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So the one thing that's really helped me to understand all of this is to understand that in critical theory the categories that you and I function on of truth and error logic factual, factuality and history, you know, representing the other side accurately all that comes and in fact is being identified as colonial or an expression of white privilege and all the rest of that kind of stuff.

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Within critical theory since everything is defined on the basis of power structures oppressor, oppressed when you define morality, and this is where we get into issues regarding abortion and everything else.

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When you define morality morality is the destruction of oppression

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That is the highest good is you must destroy oppression.

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Now be careful because you and I automatically defined oppression in a biblical context

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We're not talking about that This is where when you bring this into the church it creates such massive confusion and it's creating massive confusion all across the

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United States right now. It's causing tremendous division even amongst Reformed churches. I never thought it could happen because I thought

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Sola Scriptura would keep this from happening I was silly. How does it make its way in when people hold to that principle?

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It just went through the back door. And so fast. Lightning speed

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Then we're all looking really stupid When you ask what oppression is oppression is difference in socio -economic status

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So I don't have to oppress you. I don't have to be forcing you to do something you don't want to do But if I have things you don't have, then

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I'm oppressing you simply by my being a part of a different group than you are.

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See, you must understand critical theory cannot build anything up.

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It can only tear down. That's why I've heard Joy and Summer talk about when they talk about intersectionality that if you just follow it long enough, you're going to end up alone.

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It just divides, divides, divides, divides, divides You think you've gotten down to this really neat group and then you discover that you're actually a little more oppressed than somebody else so now you've got to divide again.

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That's what intersectionality does, and that's a function of critical theory. It breaks everything down, and it destroys having any common basis upon which you can have you start building something back up You've got to have a foundation to build a building

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But since all this can do is break down and can't build anything we're seeing the destructive impact that it has upon society.

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Joy, can you help us with this? We're using words like intersectionality and critical theory. These are now important definitional terms and they're being used to build a new society, a new world, a new way to see the world.

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I would imagine that much of our live audience right now, and those thousands of you guys who are going to listen to this later, much of you feel like probably us, before we started hearing you talk about it definitionally, what exactly does that mean?

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Is it very important to understand it? And it is. Once you understand it, you see it everywhere.

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I'm going to toss it over to you, but in terms of what I was even just seeing this morning, I got out of bed and said hello to my wife and got something to eat, and I just pulled up my phone to make sure no emergencies are going on, pastoral emergencies

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I look through the feed and I start seeing the articles come up from Vice and all the popular mega channels that are pumping stuff into the minds of our youth and just young people in college age and the pop culture stuff.

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These are the important, listen to us. And when you understand this, it's every article you see from, say,

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Vice or Motherboard, you're like, and there it is. It's almost like they sit in a board meeting and they go, now does this cross the

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T's and dot the I's of the worldview we are trying to propagate? Make sure that you are using the language in this article.

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Make sure that you are making sure you're instructing people that this is how we're supposed to think about these things. This is what is right.

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And you see it, you're right, everywhere. So help us with that because people are going to come across this. If you're concerned with impacting the world with the truth of the gospel, you're going to face this in the days ahead.

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You're going to see it in media, especially in the next election. Goodness gracious, it is going to be definitional in so many different ways.

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So Joy, help us to understand intersectionality and all the rest. Well, so I think critical theory and intersectionality, defining them together definitely helps you sort of understand.

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So when I'm talking about what intersectionality is, keep in mind what Pastor James, I was going to call you

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Dr. White, said. Or you can just call me Summer's dad. Or Summer's dad. But only

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I get to call him that. Well, so intersectionality was a term, an idea that was coined basically by the third wave of feminists who came out of the second wave and what they saw was obviously lots of pro -female ideology, lots of legislation that was raising the rights of women and making them more equal to men.

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But then you had portions of women, basically people, women who were not white and women who were not straight that felt like feminism didn't represent them at all.

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And so Kimberly Crenshaw specifically, she was an author in the kind of,

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I mean, mainly I guess she's known for the third wave, but she was around during the second wave. And so she had all the same sort of idea about equality as the women in the second wave, but she also had this idea that feminism should be representing all the groups in her that were oppressed.

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So she was oppressed, she was the minority, not just because she was female, but we also needed to address the fact that she was black.

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And we also needed to address the fact that if there were women out there that were lesbians, they weren't being justly represented by this vast white feminism.

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So she coined the term intersectionality and basically a good way to think of it is intersections, even if you want to consider driving down the road an intersection and consider that basically the more intersections you go through, so if you're on the corner of female street, then you pass through that, and then you pass through African American Avenue, and then you can pass through Raised in Poverty Boulevard, and so basically the more intersections that you go through, the more nuanced your representation should be,

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I suppose. And so I think intersectionality is actually, it's interesting because I think that really represents the breakdown of critical theory quite a bit more than just defining critical theory because that's where you really see the only way that I don't know, basically you just end up having a bunch of people defining themselves by all these intersections that they can go through, but the thing is is that, well, generally there's an assumption you were talking about with critical theory, the assumption is that if you're white, you have these certain things, but chances are, according to intersectionality, you'd pass through, you may be white and you may pass through other intersections, so this is where you see a lot of, for me,

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I think this is where you get into a lot of the inconsistency because the assumption is that if you're white, that you're a part of the oppression group, but really, realistically, according to, so, for example,

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I pass through an intersection that you guys don't because I'm female, but what if you guys pass through an intersection that I don't, which is you grew up poor, or your parents, my parents were divorced, but maybe your parents stayed together, and so it just breaks down and it breaks down until like he was saying, you're alone, you've passed through a million intersections and you're alone.

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You've got no group left. You cannot produce a harmonious group, and that's why a lot of feminists are getting upset with transgenderism because transgenderism fundamentally undercuts everything the feminists were trying to fight for, if there is no such thing as the feminine, if you can't even define it anymore.

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Oh yeah, that's a good point. Look at Martina Navratilova. In my age, she was the very icon of rebellion, the lesbian tennis player, blah, blah, blah.

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And now she's on the outs because she dares to realize hey, wait a minute, if we're taking this too far, this is going to result in a complete destruction of women's sports.

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It's not fair to have a guy playing a gal. It's just not right, and so she's now on the outs.

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It just divides, divides, divides, divides, divides, and there is no foundation for bringing it together because of the issue of oppressor versus the oppressed.

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So if you're a white, cisgendered, and I even had to figure what that was, but white, cisgendered, male,

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American, then you have all this privilege, and that means by your breathing air, you are an oppressor.

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You're guilty of oppression. And that's the whiteness that you have to repent of. So repentance doesn't mean what we think it means.

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Oppression doesn't mean what we think it means. None of these words mean what we define them as meaning coming out of the page of Scripture.

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And so when this comes into the church and starts adopting that language, and now you have a

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Christian minister or, in this case, a woman with a master's degree from Westminster Seminary sitting up there and presenting this, the confusion is amazing and it's extremely dangerous.

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And it destroys what should bring us together because it's designed societally is to break society down so that eventually it collapses and can be remade into something new.

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That sounds familiar. Which sounds very, very familiar. But what happens when you bring that into the church?

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Who's going to remake the church? Yeah. By what standard? Exactly. And so this is what we're really fighting now is that in our very seminaries, and we're talking

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Dallas. We're talking Westminster. We're talking even some of the

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RTS campuses. We're talking everywhere. Let me read you this quote. Somebody's live in the feed right here.

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A couple hundred listening right now. It says, Timothy says, Amen Dr. White, thank you for clarifying this dangerous leaven.

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In my grad program, we're studying this to such an extent it's coming out of my ears, eyes, and nose.

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Oh yeah. And that's why when I talk to older Reformed men, they go, this isn't going to impact us.

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I'm going, someone's going to stand in your pulpit someday. You're not going to live forever. And this is what is being presented.

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And we have not prepared people for it. We don't even know what the lines are right now. We are in such a transitionary period here that we don't even know who's on what side.

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And if you dare say, if you dare push back, then you're accused of divisiveness.

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And we're all talking about the divisiveness of this. That's what critical theory does. It divides. So the other side is saying, well, if you just would come along with us, then everything would be fine.

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Well, we can't. And that's why in my naivete, when I first, my first major comment on this in the current session was after the

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MLK 50 thing just a little over a year ago. And, silly me, what did

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I do? I went to Scripture. Now, Scripture doesn't talk about critical theory, so you have to ask a more basic question.

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And that is, how did the apostles deal with the pressures that faced them?

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Or did they, did pressures face them that could be made even somewhat similar to what we're facing in our society today?

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And the fact is, you look at the early church, and there were all sorts of possible divisions in the early church based upon forms of ethnicity.

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The Romans were forcing all sorts of people to peaceably live with one another, lest the

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Roman come and cut your head off, who hated each other. And so one of the things that I went to was in Colossians 3 when

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Paul's talking about this renewal in which there is no, and then he goes through all these possible divisors, male and female, and Jew and Greek, and then he uses

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Scythians and barbarians. Those are ethnic designators.

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Barbarians were anybody outside the borders of the Roman Empire. The Scythians, this is interesting, were just northeast, looking at a map there, northeast of where Colossae was.

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And these were, these were warrior people. And so if you can imagine what it was like in Colossae, very easy to see how when the church gathered at the table, there would be people who in their parents' generation may have had what we would call war crimes, or genocide, or horrible things took place, because these

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Scythians came in and there was war going on. And the Romans finally come in and say, stop all that.

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But the point is, there would be strong ethnic tribal divisions that exist within the church.

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And for me, I hadn't read a bunch of stuff on this stuff. I'm just sitting here going, okay, the only way

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I can draw a parallel here is how did the apostles deal with producing unity in the church?

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What was the basis? Because they did not have a Lord's Supper table over here. I love how we do

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Lord's Supper. I've always liked when you get up and you move yourself to the elements, because of Paul's statement that this is a means by which you are testifying as to what

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Jesus Christ has done, the resurrection, your redemption. So instead of it just being passed to you, I love the fact that you're going down there and doing that.

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But we only have one table. Right. That's right. We don't have a table over here for this ethnic group or that ethnic group or depending on how much ink you've got or something like that.

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We have one table and we go to one place. And that's always been how

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Christians have done it. And that reflects what Paul saw as the danger in Galatia. What was in Antioch?

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Two tables. There was going to be two tables. And he saw that was going to result in a division.

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You can't have division because there is only one righteousness of Christ that is imputed to us.

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There is only one Savior. And so how did the apostles deal with the reality they faced that could have torn that infant church into pieces?

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They absolutely insisted that you're a new creation in Christ and all these things, all these things in the past.

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There may have been people in Colossae that had an absolutely just complaint against how their grandpappy was treated by the

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Scythians. It doesn't matter anymore. It's the past. The gospel turns you from the past to the future.

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It doesn't allow you to continue to dwell upon those pains from the past.

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It doesn't say those things didn't happen. It's not saying that that was a just thing that happened. You don't have to call slavery in the

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United States a just thing. To at the same time say, but that was then. We need to be looking forward, not constantly looking backwards.

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If you're driving a car, constantly looking backwards, you're going to get in trouble. And what the gospel does is we are part of a kingdom.

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That kingdom is being built. It has a future. You're not constantly looking back at what's happened in the past.

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You can learn from things in the past. There's wonderful things to learn from the past. But dwelling on it and then using that as a means for division now.

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You remember what happened to me? What was it? May? I put up that meme.

33:13

I actually took the time to make a meme. Normally people are making memes of me and you. We get memed all the time.

33:20

But I put up that meme because I had been having a conversation with someone where they had talked about the need for black spaces in the church.

33:31

And how the church was a white space and they needed black spaces. Now again, that just seems so out of place for me.

33:42

I never understood it. But I was trying to understand it. And so I responded to that by saying, well look, when we come to the table, that is a

33:52

Christ space. You want to use the term space? Okay, let's use the term space. The table is a Christ space.

33:57

You are focused solely and completely upon the one who gave himself his perfect sacrifice, my complete reliance upon him.

34:06

There is no place, and this is where I got in trouble, there is no place for bringing your past of your people to the table of the

34:17

Lord when it could cause division with other people in the table of the Lord. I said, there is no place for ethnicity in the table of the

34:24

Lord. Oh my goodness. That's what caused people to be calling for an ecumenical council to identify colorblind theology as heretical.

34:34

Just like the Council of Nicaea. Ended up in Woke Church, the book by Eric Mason.

34:41

With Forward. Who was Forward by? Lincoln Duncan.

34:47

And it's in that book. And so, the only thing I could do was let's go to the scriptures, let's look at what signifies absolute unity amongst the body.

34:59

And that is, we come for, we take that bread and that wine. You don't get to do that in a special, we don't elevate you, you get your own little table up there because you just preached the sermon.

35:14

No. There's one table. That's right. And it doesn't matter if you've been here for one week, or for as long as we've existed, you go to the same table.

35:22

Because we only have one hope. We only have one Redeemer. We only have one Savior. And so true

35:28

Christian unity is understood theologically in that way.

35:33

And I see, once you bring critical theory in, critical theory and that understanding of the unity of the church cannot coexist.

35:41

One's going to have to give in to the other. Well, and one of the foundations of intersectionality, critical theory is that there is no room for forgiveness.

35:52

And you talked about there being a different definition of repentance. And you talk about breaking something down so that you can build it up.

36:00

But I have never once seen any evidence that anyone is trying to build anything back up. Because the standard happens to be that the standard is created by the oppressed group.

36:13

So they can say, justly, forever, for the rest of time, they could say, no, you still haven't earned my forgiveness yet.

36:23

You still haven't made up for that wrong. And so there is no, it's a complete, there's no desire for unity.

36:30

There's no desire for forgiveness. And it's interesting that you specifically bring up the table because those are the things that keep you from the table.

36:39

And so if you have a brother or sister in Christ who has no interest in going to the table because they hold this other thing so much higher as pastors, what would your response be to someone who said,

36:53

I don't want to go to the table because I want to have an issue with someone else in the body? I would send them to the parable of the wicked servant.

37:04

The unforgiving servant, I mean. But you see, there is, I came up, maybe somebody else came up with this before me, but I said there is therefore now much condemnation in the woke church.

37:13

Right. Oh yeah. Put your mic a little closer because people are starting to get here. There is no end game.

37:19

Okay. Because there is no basis for redemption. Okay. And there is no end game.

37:26

So that's what was just being said. As long as the oppressed want to continue to consider themselves as the oppressed and value their position as the oppressed, there is no redemptive process that can undo this.

37:42

Even to the point where they are the oppressors. Right. They could be physically, and you might think

37:49

I'm exaggerating. I'm not exaggerating. The oppressed group could be physically violent towards the oppressors and that's still not considered oppressed.

37:58

At no point will the tables switch. That's how it works.

38:04

The oppressed have a different set of moral standards that develop from their being oppressed than the oppressors.

38:11

So there was an incident recently where a Trump supporter and they try to make this just that but again it shows the

38:18

Americanization of it. But a Trump supporter got hit upside the head by someone promoting critical theory who happened to be a professor of moral and ethics at the local community college.

38:31

Now why would he think that was a moral and ethical thing to do? Because critical theory produces a completely different set of morality and ethics.

38:41

He was protesting the oppression represented by the other person.

38:47

Since the greatest good is the destruction of oppression then you can oppress the oppressors.

38:53

Right. And that is a good moral thing to do. So that's why Antifa can do what Antifa is doing and as long as it breaks down and as long as you stay within the parameters of who's the oppressed and who's the...

39:05

Now that changes over time. It does. That's the key thing. It's in flux. Because only a few years ago transgenderism wasn't nearly the deluxe standard of oppression that it is now.

39:20

Right. But what's going to come next? Again there's no moral or ethical foundation to provide limits.

39:29

Well this is really just power grabbing isn't it? Because if you're white or whiteness and you have all the power,

39:35

I want power over you. So now I'm the one that's going to tell you what you need to do. And so it's almost like they're trying to grab and take control of things.

39:45

You know what I'm saying? Except that you... I would understand that in for example a business context or governmental context but critical theory isn't that rational.

39:59

And the problem is that we keep trying to apply our old way of thought to this and it just doesn't work.

40:10

It's fundamental purpose is to bring society to its knees and then who gets to take over?

40:18

And trust me, once that happens all this stuff gets thrown out the window. No one's going to care about any of this stuff anymore.

40:27

It's who then has control of the technology and there's some... I read an article just this morning about a lot of this stuff.

40:35

If you didn't believe God was in control, this would be a very frightening time. For sure.

40:42

People used to tell jokes about this. ... ... ...

41:00

... ... ... They were ahead of their time. Yes, very much so. Very, very much so. Including this. I'll go ahead and play this in terms of...

41:06

Oh yeah, listen to this. This is really important. Make sure the sound's up here, Isaac. You should probably tell what this is. This is from Monty Python's Life of Brian which isn't necessarily a recommendation.

41:16

Bad movie. There is a clip from this that is definitely ahead of the time. I want to be a woman.

41:23

... ... ... ...

41:31

... ... ... ... ... ...

41:37

... ... ... ...

41:43

... ... ... ...

41:52

... ... ... a perfect right to play a part in our movement

41:58

Reg. Why are you always on about women Stan? I want to be one. What?

42:06

I want to be a woman. From now on I want you all to call me Loretta.

42:11

Loretta. What? It's my right as a man. Why do you want to be

42:17

Loretta Stan? I want to have babies. You want to have babies?

42:24

It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them. But you can't have babies. Don't you oppress me.

42:30

I'm not oppressing you Stan. I've got a womb. Where's the fetus going to gestate?

42:35

You're going to keep it in a box? These days. So there,

42:41

I mean that was supposed to be funny. That was an engaging. But does oppression don't oppress?

42:47

I mean they saw this coming long before I did. I'm going to admit it. Monty Python.

42:54

Yeah. Powerful stuff. Sorry. I was just, we told Pastor James before the show, every show we get someone asking why we have a pagan symbol on the wall.

43:03

That's why. They're there. Every show. Luke and I usually do a little like eye contact when it happens.

43:09

Every time. That has to be one of my absolute favorite symbols of the Trinity because it's so instructive because you have three equal arcs that together form something that they alone would not form.

43:23

And the idea of it being pagan. Well did you know where the buttons on your shirt came from?

43:30

Those were originally meant to keep demons out. I did not know that. There's all sorts of stuff that you can connect to paganism.

43:39

Right. But it just tires me when people miss the historical relevance of stuff and miss what we're talking about.

43:46

Yeah. The tricetra is not. And make sure you remember that when you're blowing out your birthday candles.

43:52

Yeah. Because you're supposed to read your fortune in the smoke. So yeah.

43:57

Anyway. So let's move forward from here though. Where do we go in terms of, okay, we can recognize these new definitions.

44:09

It's a propagation of a new world. And world and life view and view of the future.

44:16

It's an attempt to reform society. And all these instructors and professors are discipling.

44:23

They're making disciples. And we've crossed paths with these disciples out on the streets. We've had

44:28

Antifa come and cross paths with us out there. They're oodles of fun. They are an interesting, interesting group.

44:34

And we can hear the language. We can understand what they're trying to do. And they are definitely an intense group. And they've been discipled by this culture, this generation.

44:41

Students from ASU coming out to us. And you hear it in their language and their perspective. And it's all over major media.

44:48

You've got some major funding sources behind some of the popular media channels that are propagating all of the new way to think and view the world and sexuality.

44:58

I mean, I was just reading an article today from a popular channel that I know has funding from a very well -known source in terms of a different kind of worldview that was propagating the idea of this monogamy, this idea of this outdated ancient idea of monogamy.

45:14

Polyamory is really the way to go and multiple partners. And this is so stupid that we have this exclusive monogamy.

45:20

People need to understand that's not what we're built for. It's so easy to see that out there.

45:26

What is troubling me is now it's being expressed in the church. Oh, I know.

45:32

And I'm not talking about the wacky leftist mainline denominations that went a long time ago.

45:38

I'm talking about in churches that five years ago had never said a word about this.

45:45

And since three of the four elders are sitting here right now and love being with you. What do we do?

45:53

What do you do? Let me throw this your direction. All right, let me focus. Okay, you do most of the preaching.

46:01

You're doing a series on the kingdom of God. All right. Do you need to in your consideration of what you're covering and how you're covering?

46:13

Yes. Need to keep in mind that the people coming into that room, we haven't designed,

46:21

I'm trying to design it. We haven't designed the machine to put over the door that sucks the worldview errors out of people as they walk through.

46:30

Wouldn't that be wonderful? Man, that would be amazing. That would make a lot of money if we could sell it. Doesn't exist, won't exist.

46:38

So guess where I think the primary responsibility as elders lies in modeling how to differentiate between a truly

46:50

Christian worldview and the worldly worldview. Somehow in the midst of our being careful exegetes, church history, sound and systematic theology, what we're now being called to do because we've been called to this time and this place is to make specific application that my great -grandparents never had to make and never had to think about.

47:15

That's right. But if we don't make the application, then when are our people going to be being instructed on these very issues in the recognition of the dangers of what's divisive?

47:28

You don't have to do every sermon on critical theory, but if it's in the back of your mind, even going through Matthew 23 and 24, you're going to be encountering categories of oppression.

47:44

So you can properly define them and contrast them.

47:50

That's right. So that when you have young people coming out of the educational system, coming into our fellowship, they have been infected by these things.

47:57

How is it going to be dealt with unless we model it from the pulpit? That's right. That's right. And I think that's one of the glories of the

48:05

Word of God is that it's the truth of God. And so you can make wide application to all these new errors that pop up.

48:13

And it is interesting because the whole context room of the kingdom of God right now, all those themes that flow throughout the

48:19

Old Testament and come to their amazing fulfillment of the New Testament, all those themes I would think could actually create a fence around the church and the people of God to not allow this kind of thinking of critical theory and intersectionality and all this stuff of race and oppression to come in.

48:36

Because that's one of the glories of the rule of Christ in the world is just what God does to bring the nations up to the mountain of God and to himself to bring redemption and salvation.

48:46

And this dismissiveness that you see in scripture in terms of like this color of skin is more or this people group or this...

48:56

It's something entirely different that you would think would guard the people of God from this kind of indoctrination and this infection coming into the church.

49:06

Except that critical theory divides human knowledge into little packets.

49:14

We are trying to show the beauty of the unity of Christianity. That's right. Fulfillment of prophecy.

49:20

The flow of history. Critical theory does the exact opposite and teaches you to see things as individualized points.

49:28

Yeah. And so what's happening in the church is you can preach a sermon like that, but if you already have as a mindset, well, that's just one view.

49:37

That's just one element over here, but you're not forced to see how it all is connected together. Then you can reinterpret what is being said and end up with an extremely contradictory conclusion and way of thinking.

49:49

It has to be modeled from the pulpit. And then as elders, we can encourage other people who have other opportunities to reach a whole other audience.

49:59

Yes. Like Summer and Joy. Right. To press on with the with the theologians and that way

50:05

I can go to Zambia again and find out that there are theologians fans in Zambia. That's right. We're more excited about that than they were that I was being so awesome.

50:15

So which is which is really awesome. But there is a place, especially in being fulfilled by what they're doing, because this feminism, there is a huge publishing industry, there are books being cranked out right and left.

50:35

And there's a lot of people who have pretty much ignored the women and and not have not found the proper means of communicating to them.

50:47

The ministry of the word from from the pulpit is first and foremost. No question about that. But when we want to make sure it's being understood and applied, there is room for a lot of of that kind of ministry.

50:58

Yes. To make it make it real in the home. No, I agree. Especially as especially as moms are homeschooling and things like that.

51:05

Oh, my goodness. Our young people need to understand. Yes, they need to have a deep worldview education.

51:12

And, you know, Summer will tell you, you know, she's probably told the story a million times of driving around the backseat of the car with the whiteboard as I'm doing as I'm doing

51:20

Christian worldview stuff with them in the car. That was in 1990 something. There is so much more of a need for that.

51:28

Yeah. Now than there even was that. Right. That's right. And that speaking of that Christian worldview and okay, so I don't have all the answers on this, but there are certain areas where I'm very confident in terms of I know what the word of God says about this, but there's so much coming at us so quickly.

51:43

It's like you're just trying to manage these things. I feel like, okay, a lot of where you see this becoming like a part of infecting the church and the minds of the church and even solid, like you said, reformed institutions or churches sort of just going, okay,

51:57

I'll take that. I think it's because and obviously there's a question of funding. There's question of influence.

52:03

But I think that a lot of times you'll have the acknowledgement of a failure in a particular area of theology.

52:11

So let's say somebody drops something and says, well, we care about justice. Where's your concern?

52:17

You supposedly are from Jesus and the Bible and you have that word of God there and you talk about image of God and you talk about value and human dignity and the worth of human beings, but where's your conversation about social justice?

52:29

I don't even hear you talking about it now. So on the one hand, you'll have reformed guys hear that and go, dang, that's right.

52:35

Like where is my conversation about justice in the world around me today? And then on the other side, there's the concern where you have the liberal theologians that talk all about Jesus and social justice, but then you look at it, you go, that's perverse.

52:48

There's nothing in there about what God says about justice. That's not even Christianity. I mean, you got guys there that just rank heretics, deny the trinity.

52:57

This isn't even Christianity, but they use Christian terminology and they talk about social justice and justice categories.

53:03

And some people go, well, at least that sounds like you care about justice and human beings a little more consistently than this reformed dude over here that's not even talking about justice.

53:12

So I feel like that's brought us to a place where it's like a perfect storm of opportunity for these descendants of Marx and others to sort of come in and go, let's grab hold of this now, this opportunity to start infecting all these areas.

53:26

So this is my concern, is that how do we hold together the consistent Christian worldview, the consistent, the unity of the scriptures, without abandoning necessary commitments to the word of God and Sola Scriptura, and without going to the direction of like the heretical and those who just don't even know the

53:46

Lord in the first place. So how do we do this, hold this together? And that's my question is like, by what standard? Because when I see it...

53:52

Stop being antinomian. Yeah, exactly. Now don't be antinomian. And that's the concern for me. This is the biggest concern

53:57

I have when I see this taking... The American church is antinomian. That's what I'm saying. That's exactly my point. You said it in one word there. That is the major concern that I see.

54:05

My concern is like, uh -oh, we've got solid dudes now that are actually going, no, you're right.

54:11

I should care about justice. And I'm going, hey, good job, because that's what I've been saying for years. I think that's important for us as we proclaim the excellencies of Jesus and his rules over this world.

54:19

There's nothing in this world that's outside of his authority and control. And yeah, he does care about justice and law and righteousness and his holiness.

54:27

He does care. So I start listening. I'm going, okay, so what are you going to say back to them then? What reference point are you using now that you accept the fact that, yeah, it is true that the

54:36

God of all the universe has all authority and he does care about righteousness in the world today. What are you standing on?

54:41

And that's my concern is because now you see these guys who were like appealing now to the intersectionality guys and critical theory guys, and they're just sort of gobbling it up going, no,

54:53

I do care about justice. Help me to understand what I ought to do. And I'm going, no, no, no, no, no. Don't go ask them.

55:00

It's good that we're repentant over like, do we have a failure as a church? Is there an area I need to do better? We're not asking them. We're hiring them as the professors in ourselves.

55:07

That's my point. That's what I'm so concerned with is that what I'm saying here is that if Christ is ruler overall, of course, we have to acknowledge he's always talked about being about this stuff.

55:17

God has always said so, but what's the reference point we're going to? Are we going to go to Paul and say, this is how he talks about it and the concern.

55:26

Are we going to go and look at like, has God spoken about this area anywhere before?

55:32

We're not talking about slapping the law of God down on society. We're just asking like, has God ever disclosed like himself on this issue?

55:37

Should we actually go to him as a reference point here as to what is just and how to handle this? That's the thing of concern.

55:43

It's a burden for me. I see solid dudes now actually going, no, we need to care about justice.

55:48

And then they're opening their ears up to the wrong side and the wrong source. And I'm like, you realize, of course, we've got a long history of the kingdom of God in the world where we have predecessors before us who actually address these issues pretty faithfully.

56:01

And they appeal to scripture to do so. Like, shouldn't we be appealing to that? That's my concern. That's biggest fear right now in terms of what's ahead is solid dudes going, opening their ears to people who are saying,

56:12

I'll tell you what justice is. And I look at that and I go, that doesn't look anything like anything in this book.

56:18

Nothing. Just because they have adopted a lens that exists over scripture so that social justice becomes defined by the parameters of the society around us rather than on the basis of God's laws.

56:31

So the very idea of social justice, we, for some reason, to our own destruction, end up reinterpreting that in our categories as God's justice being done in society.

56:45

But in critical theory, that's not what social justice is. It's the destruction of oppression and the writing of all the oppressive wrongs, which brings everybody to that magical place where we're all the same, but none of us are all the same.

56:59

And so it doesn't actually work. I don't want to lose where you're going, but can you help us with that? Even that terminology of like the word justice in scripture, like what does that reflect in scripture that when we talk about justice, justification, righteousness, like.

57:14

Well, when we're talking in this context, we're talking about the fact that scripture tells us that justice is the foundation of God's throne.

57:23

So it's a divine attribute in the sense of the absolute consistency of God in dealing with his creation.

57:32

Critical theory has no place for a creator being the transcendent definer of all these things.

57:38

And so justice has to become something that is culturally derived and hence will be different from culture to culture.

57:46

And that's how you get people to understand what you're trying to say.

57:55

For example, the feminists, they had to make femininity a social construct and not something that was natural so that we could say this was from society.

58:07

So these groups, they have to make sin and evils and morality something that is produced societally, not something that is naturally occurring so that they can say, well, we got it wrong and we need to change it.

58:21

Because if it just exists like that, then there's no need, like if there just is femininity, what can we do?

58:29

It's built into all of us. But if we can say, no, society created these gender norms, then we can change them.

58:36

Okay. Can we expatiate upon that a little bit more in terms of, you brought up justice as the foundation of God's throne.

58:43

I'm not sure how to expatiate about anything. Oh, yeah. Okay. Expand on the issue.

58:53

Justice is the foundation of God's throne. So what we would say is, no, we don't want out of the discussion of social justice.

59:00

We want in that discussion. But there's a particular way that we actually, we want to have a reference point and say, this is what we mean by that.

59:08

When you talk about the society around just random sort of going, I think it means this.

59:14

And in 25 years, it's going to mean something entirely different because we have a new oppressive group, or however it ends up looking.

59:22

We're pointing to the very character of God. So when we talk about justice according to a truly unified biblical and Christian worldview, we say, no, no, he's the reference point.

59:33

It's his character that's the standard. And what I want to know as a Christian, if I talk about justice for other human beings in the world and correction of wrongs to any degree, current, whatever that looks like,

59:44

I want to go to him as the reference point. What is his character? How does he deal? And what has he said about himself and how we're to love one another and care for one another?

59:53

They don't mean that. No, no, they can't. They don't mean that. It's a Darwinian world. So there is no creator.

01:00:00

There could be no standard. Only society can define these things. Because what's absolutely important in defining true justice is to recognize that man is made in the imago dei.

01:00:12

Without an imago dei, you have no means of discussing any kind of morality, ethics, law, or justice.

01:00:21

And so you have to take that word justice. Once you get rid of man created in the image of God, you're going to have to fill it with something else.

01:00:27

And critical theory fills it with something that is rabidly unbiblical. And that's the problem.

01:00:34

When you then bring that into the church, something's got to give, something's got to be replaced.

01:00:40

And what we're seeing is divine truth being replaced with societal, theoretical materials in our own seminaries, in our own seminaries, which then becomes the lens through which the preaching and teaching is done, which then ends up in the next generation with a perverted gospel that no one in our generation will even recognize.

01:01:02

Yeah. That's what's scary to me because you mentioned some of these older guys that are more elder than you.

01:01:09

It's hard to believe. I know. But these guys are saying, you know, they kind of are like, well, whatever. It's, you know, this isn't going to affect us.

01:01:15

I'm saying this has happened so quickly. Oh, it's already affecting these guys. You know, this is really, this discussion is kind of blown up in the last year even.

01:01:24

And so, yeah, no, it is affecting even the older guys. And yeah, like you said, it's not just the seminaries, it's solid pastors and not just like wacky, you know,

01:01:35

Arminian, whatever, like guys out there. It's solid reform guys that it's affecting. And it's just been shocking and eye -opening.

01:01:43

When you see major Christian organizations promoting Jamar Tisby's book, The Color of Compromise, which in the historical stuff is is an interesting read, but then transitions very quickly into a amazingly critical race theory based dialogue or diatribe,

01:02:02

I guess would be the better term. When you see people who 10 years ago we would have sent anybody to listen to those people speaking.

01:02:10

Right. And now they're promoting this. Were we just asleep? I'm not 100 % certain.

01:02:18

Was something going on that we just didn't notice it? Were we extending too much grace?

01:02:25

I mean, that sounds really strange to me that you ever could do that. But I don't know what happened.

01:02:31

All I know is in a matter of years, the number of places that I could suggest that someone go for theological education has shrunk dramatically.

01:02:44

Oh yeah. Dramatically. Yes. In ways that I never ever could have seen coming. And it's...

01:02:52

God's got to be behind something here. I mean, there's blindness. There's judicial blindness taking place.

01:03:00

Yeah. It's scary. I think you're right, brother. I think that the place to start being concerned and getting on your knees and being serious about prayer and the future is when you start to see the church now abandoning...

01:03:16

and we've obviously... we're always a work in progress, of course, but we start seeing the church lose it in major, really, really, really serious areas on a large scale, and it's just expanding.

01:03:27

That's where I start getting concerned, because we start seeing that the judgment of God is on culture around us, the abandonment of righteousness, and just fundamental understanding as image bearers of God just being thrown out the window in terms of gender, and marriage, and children, and sexuality, and you name it.

01:03:45

And then it starts going... you start going, well, at least segments of the church are still pushing against that, and we have an understanding.

01:03:53

Then you start seeing what you thought was a solid segment of church, and the solid segments going, no, we'll take some of that.

01:04:00

We'll go that direction. You start going, all right, now the judgment of God isn't just really just out there. It's coming now here, and we're starting to see this, and it's always a big concern when you start to see it happening within the context of what you thought were solid segments of the church community.

01:04:15

Right at the time when we need unity more than ever because of the fact that the left wants total control, and Christianity doesn't allow that, so it can't be fortuitous.

01:04:30

It's obviously, hey, God's still on his throne, but we are in a situation where very clearly we need to discern the times and the seasons.

01:04:38

Yeah, and my reason for saying that is not to freak anybody out and to say the sky is falling.

01:04:44

It's to say that we have a duty as Christians to be faithful in the midst of what God puts in front of us. We have to be, and so wherever we find ourselves in history as the people of God, we have to face what's in front of us with faithfulness, and it could come with great difficulty and trauma and trials and even death and loss, but we have to just know what's ahead of us and be willing to face it with the truth that comes from this revelation, this revelation, and it can't just be a pithy slogan and Christian t -shirt.

01:05:17

It can't be. It can't just be a meme you share that says solo scriptura. That's got to mean something, that the word of God is the sole infallible rule of faith and practice for the church, and we know what that means to hold the words of God in our hands, and that has to mean something in terms of our witness and our call to go into the world.

01:05:36

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me, Jesus says to us, Matthew 28, and he says, therefore go, because it's all mine, and he says, and go disciple the nations, baptize them, name of the

01:05:47

Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, teach them to observe all that I have commanded you. Like that's the commission, and so when we see the nation around us that we find ourselves in just going off the cliff like this, and you see other professing

01:05:59

Christians going with them, like that's, you know, you can't just say, well, I got nothing to do with this, and I'm just gonna sit back here and do nothing.

01:06:05

No, the call was, he already has all authority, and we don't know exactly what his plans are for our nation, but his command to us is, you go, you go, and you preach the gospel, you make disciples, and that means coming into conflict and getting into fights sometimes.

01:06:22

We gotta be ready to fight, and I think that to me is my biggest concern as a pastor, is raising up men and women and children that can face what the enemy has put before us, and what he brings against us, can face it with consistency, with, of course, boldness, and love, and respect, but being able to face it.

01:06:44

That's what my dedication as a pastor is, making sure that we're raising up men and women to be able to face what's ahead of us, and also, you've got grandkids now.

01:06:53

I have a grandson now, and my oldest daughter just got married, and maybe, Lord willing, there's more grandbabies ahead of us, so thinking ahead even, and you've got a baby coming into the world now.

01:07:03

Like we have got to stop being so short -sighted as Christians, and think about the future, and like, you know, it's

01:07:08

Christ, it's his rule, his kingdom, his gospel, but you know, on a real practical level, like we're sending our children and grandchildren into this world, and it's like, what does love require of me?

01:07:19

Love for God, love for his truth, means I've got to tell the truth, and love for my neighbor, especially my little one right here, means

01:07:27

I'm going to try to build the world that actually blesses them, and I want to have something to do with that, and I can't control

01:07:34

God's providence, and his sovereign plan for history, but I want to be faithful with what he's put in front of me, as faithful as I possibly can be.

01:07:42

Well, and God knows the fruit of your grandson.

01:07:48

Yeah. Like, we don't know it, we don't ever get to, we lose that perspective, I think, but to consider, like,

01:07:53

I think that even, I try to, like, obviously, we're family integrated, and so sometimes, like, people, they're like, oh my gosh, am

01:08:01

I ever going to be able to sit in church again? My kid just screams, and I have to leave, and whatever, you know, and you wonder, like, what's the point?

01:08:08

But the point is, is that we don't, like, especially as we, like, bring up little ones, we don't, we may never get to see the fruit of that, but if you raise your kids to be

01:08:18

God -fearing, there's fruit there. Absolutely. God willing. That's right, that's right.

01:08:24

All right, time's up, good show, more to come. He's got to go. Yeah, more to come.

01:08:29

Yeah, I'm flying, I'm flying to London. Oh, that's right, that's right, we're gonna get you out of here. All right, and you are leaving to go, let's let him announce, everyone knows what's happening.

01:08:38

I'm gonna be at Grace Life Church on Sunday morning, preaching there in London, and then we're recording some unbelievable radio broadcast, two debates, which will be very, very interesting the following week, then

01:08:50

I'm gonna be in the Netherlands, doing a conference there, and then I have a debate, I believe it's

01:08:55

May 2nd, in the East London Mosque, on does the Quran misrepresent the Trinity? So, I'm gonna get back until May 6th, and then, as you know,

01:09:06

I've got a bunch of stuff in the weeks after that. That's right. The rest of this year is just absolutely insane. It's all booked up. That's right, yeah, we have a lot, we have a lot planned.

01:09:14

I mean, I'm not sure what you guys have done, you've made me an elder, and I'm gonna leave. I know, I know, we have a lot planned together, too, for the rest of this year, and going into next year.

01:09:22

We have lots of plans, hopefully lots of things that will bless you guys, who are big supporters. By the way, check out

01:09:27

Alpha Omega Ministries on YouTube. Make sure you guys go to that channel. A whole long history of debates, and dividing lines, and just really helpful stuff.

01:09:37

Yes, very long history. Back when I was, you'll be watching what I was watching, and don't forget to go to ApologiaStudios .com.

01:09:46

We need your support. We need you to join with us prayerfully and financially. If you sign up for All Access, you get access to every

01:09:52

TV show, every after -show, Apologia Academy, which includes some of Dr. White's stuff as well, and a number of other great teachers.

01:09:58

Pastor James. Pastor James, that's right, yes, and just go sign up for All Access. You make it all possible, guys. We have some stuff we're releasing in the next couple of weeks here.

01:10:05

I can't wait to show you. It may even be next week. Pray for that of our stuff out in conference at Salt Lake City, and I got to tell you, the only reason it exists and you're going to see it is because of all of you who are

01:10:17

All Access with us. So, if you're All Access, what you're going to see drop next week in terms of the conflict that's out there at the

01:10:23

Mormon Temple, it only happened because of your giving and your help. So, believe me, we need your support.

01:10:28

Also, want to say just very, very quickly, encouraging story. So, we're talking about this content,

01:10:34

All Access. You help us make it all possible. Today, we had guys... No, no, last night. Last night, we had guys out at the abortion mill doing ministry, gospel ministry at the abortion mill, and two older ex -Mormons came up to the abortion mill who have come out to Arizona just to meet us, just to say that God brought them to Christ out of Mormonism through the content right here on Apologia Studios that we have on Mormonism.

01:10:59

God used it to bring them out of Mormonism to Christ, and they've come out just to meet us, just to say, you know, praise

01:11:04

God for the work. All of that happens because of All Access, guys. So, thank you so much. Joy the Girl.

01:11:10

See you guys. Luke the Bear. Peace out. Pastor James. All right, guys. Catch you next time right here on Apologia Radio.