Truth in Love- End Times Interpretation

Opening Greetings and the Show’s Focus on End Times Interpretation

Welcome to the truth and love podcast. Thank you for joining us. We're so grateful that you're here with us tonight. We're going to talk about in times interpretation mysteries revealed. We hope you will stick around.

Thank you again for watching the truth and love podcast. We're grateful that you're here with us. Let us know you're watching. Say hello. Ask questions. We'll try to have give you an answer. Hopefully the right one.

If not, we'll look it up. We'd love to be able to pray for you as well. All you got to do is say me and we'll see that we'll pray for you. Tonight we're going to be talking again about in times post-millennial ism and Secrets revealed.

We hope you enjoy the podcast as we talk about in times. But there's there's something interesting about this discussion that we have Dan as post-millennial is. And it's the first part of your chapter here that you sent me the first or one of the first paragraphs in this chapter.

And I was thinking about it last week we didn't get to bring it up we ran out of time, but It's very interesting as Post-millennialist a lot of the verses that we talk about.

Our.

Verses in from the post-millennial perspective are not in times verses. Right. We talk about these verses I think for two reasons one Because they are in times verses for other in times. What do you call them.

Theologies. Yeah, if theologies if theologies other in times views. They they are verses for those. And I think that's one of the reasons why we we bring it up is because you know, we have to say well from the post-mill perspective These are not according to scripture.

According to our perspective our interpretation of scripture. These are not actually in times of verses and and here's why.

And then the other reason at least not the end of times that deals with the end of the world.

Right, right. Yeah, right. So we would in well, how would we say it? These are verses that would talk about the end of the age versus the end of the world.

Yeah, yeah. And end of the Old Covenant age and of the Old Testament stuff like that.

Yeah, and then. Well, the other reason that we bring it up is is less to do with Post-millennialism because when we get to post-millennialism, that's an in times view. We will look at other verses Which I hope that we'll eventually get to but the other reason that we look at these verses comes from our partial preterism view, which is Do what?

Why Partial Preterism Still Discusses End-Times Texts

Yeah, yeah. The other guys went overboard. We didn't we didn't stop short they went overboard.

Let's see, they call it full preterism or.

Heretical preterism. Radical heretical preterism.

Yeah. Yeah. Hyper preterism. Yeah, like hyper Calvinism hyper. There's there's all kinds of ditches that you can fall in. But the the Orthodox or partial preterist position we look these verses. Because the partial or orthodox preterism is tied to the post-millennial position.

Can be yeah. Yeah, so that's why we look at these verses to show while we think many of these verses. Were fulfilled in the past which is what preterism means past.

And yeah, because really if you're gonna if you're gonna try to Show your case and even convince people that what you're doing isn't something wild and off-the-wall. Then if no 80 of the other views out there view these verses as being Relevant to the end times or eschatology then you've at least got to mention them.

Even better you should say what you believe about them what you believe that they're actually saying.

That's right.

And you say so with the consistent hermeneutic all the way through. That way people know that you're not just coming here and then taking a left turn to avoid Something that goes against your positions.

I know I've been using the same Method of Bible interpretation the whole way and that leads me to the conclusions that I've come to right, right and.

Of course, we want people to just you know, if you're listening and you hold to the pre-millennial dispensational view. Of course. You want people to to come to your side and believe because you believe that your side is the biblical side.

And of course, that's the position that we would hold, you know, we feel like we have Done our due diligence to the best of our ability. We believe this is the the correct interpretation. So we want people to come to our side.

So we won't but we want to honor and respect people as Brothers and sisters in Christ and say, you know look Just like us we we were open to Change our view at one point because I you know, I was To the best of my knowledge pre-millennial dispensationalist because that was that was the only position that I ever knew existed and.

And I was I was not a quote Calvinist at one time. Not I wasn't a reformed Baptist at one time. And so I had to be open to let the scripture tell me what to believe. That's that's the stance that I want to take that's where we want to be firm.

Would you agree with that?

Yes Yes.

We want to be firm in that let the Bible tell us what we should believe and not impute our beliefs. We got a question. Great. You guys said that the end of the age was 8070. Matthew 1339 says the harvest slash resurrection happened at the end of the age.

Did the resurrection happen at 70 AD?

Matthew 13 and the End of the Age

No No There's.

There's several things going on here.

One in.

Matthew 13 It's talking about something.

Different.

See exactly.

By the way, thank you for the question. And if you're so inclined Give Facebook permission to use your name. You don't have to you can be anonymous. But if you want to give your name, you know, give stream yard Permission so that we can know who we're talking to but you can remain anonymous.

That's cool. Matthew 13 9. Sure.

What you have going on in Matthew 13 is is an explanation of what's going to happen when the kingdom comes upon the earth. So you've got the kingdom of God that's coming upon the earth. I'll go go into verse 36 is then He left the crowds and went into the house and his disciples came to him saying explain to us the parable of the weeds and of the field so the one who sows.

The good seed is the son of man. The field is the world and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weed weeds are the sons of the evil one. So what you have there is you have the kingdom of God already being there so it.

The age in question is the age that we're presently living in the one where the kingdom of God is ruling over the earth. It's it's going Going around doing its thing. So and the enemy who sowed them is the devil.

The harvest is at the end of the age and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire. So will it be at the end of the age? The son of man will send his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom.

All causes of sin and all lawbreakers throw them into the fiery furnace. And that place will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. So what you have is you have an imperfect? Kingdom of God that will at one that will at some point in the future at the final resurrection at the final judgment.

Separate the wheat from the tares you'll have the the evil ones taken out of the kingdom of God. So that way they'll be no more it says. The son of man will send it will send his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all Lawbreakers and throw them into the fiery furnace in that place.

They'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth so that that right there is talking about the end of The end of all time the end of the church age if you will the end of the The time when Jesus returns again to separate to to raise the living and the dead to judge them to separate good from evil and to Assure in the eternal state.

So I don't think that's talking about the same Time period is what Jesus is speaking of in Matthew 23 and 24 things talking about two different things there.

Right and I think Probably where the the questioning comes from is because we use the we use the word the term.

Age.

The end of the age it's the the end of the world and. Then here, you know, it's it's talking about the end of the end of the age. And I was just I was gonna pull it up to see if we could look up the interlinear ages.

Aeon.

Right.

Was talking about in Matthew 13 altogether is He's speaking in parables and he says in verse 10, then the disciples came and said to him. Why do you speak in parables? He said to you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven.

But to them it has not been granted. So why is he why is he speaking in parables? He's speaking in parables because he's speaking about the nature of the kingdom of heaven. So he's speaking about the the age that started at Christ's first coming and will end at his second coming.

Whereas in Matthew 23 and 24 is talking about the end of the Jewish age and the judgment upon that people for the rejection of Messiah.

Right.

What I.

Know what? So I saw the word world in there. Where did I see that? Uh, I'm having a hard time finding it feel. There it is. First Verse 38. I wanted to see what word is used. Cosmos. Okay, no, which is which is one of the things that I want to point out.

So we use the term we use the term age into the age and And Which was most of time we're talking about 70 AD the end of the Old Covenant into the age but here is speaking of a different an age of a different time period and Daniel's talking about the kingdom the kingdom of heaven the kingdom of Christ here on.

Earth.

Same thing happens with the word world. Sometimes the word world is cosmos and sometimes it is. What's the other Greek word oikomene.

Is that right? Sure. I.

Apologize if I'm wrong on that, but you have you know different Greek words. And the word world can mean different things in different places and so can the the word age. It context is key and I think Dan was.

I think that's what Dan was. Was getting at context is key. Let's see what the other comment here is. Jesus quotes Daniel 12 numerous times in Matthew 13 and It's playing off of that. Do you think Daniel 12 is future?

No, I don't but. We're we're going well depends on what part of Daniel 12. But we're gonna talk a lot about Daniel 12 here in a little bit when we get to it but go over the abomination of desolation and.

And how that was used in Daniel how it's used in different places in.

Matthew 23 and 24. I'm trying to look for Old Testament quotes there in those verses 36 to 43. Is it just 43 that has an Old Testament quote, let's see here. Let me look at them. Sorry. I'm just looking at the cross-reference.

For Daniel or for Matthew 13 43 see there's a Daniel 12 3. So we can keep that in the back of our mind and when we get to Daniel Daniel chapter 12, so thank you for the question is good to that. Iron sharpens iron and we look at these things.

Daniel 12, the Time of the Gentiles, and the Kingdom of Christ

So.

Daniel 12 to answer your question Daniel 12 was future to Daniel. But not future to us. So I think we want to start in and we totally forgot to do the video that I sent you To open up the program, but it's good.

We've got we've got some questions in here. The challenges so that's really good. We appreciate you watching. While you're looking that up. We'll just start in in Daniel chapter 2 and I know that I know that you Dan you spoke a good bit I think last time on Daniel chapter 2 but one thing that that struck me and I shared with you before the program Daniel chapter 2 is is the the vision of the statue and the different parts of the statue represents different kingdoms and the Daniel knew of three of those kingdoms and then the fourth one was was to come the the Roman Empire and.

Then the fifth kingdom was going to be the kingdom of Christ. Which which was a little stone that that crushed basically the whole statue and what I found intriguing was that? Every every part of that statue represented a nation or a kingdom it never spoke about a religion it always spoke of Nations or kingdoms and then what's going to come to replace that's going to be an everlasting kingdom.

Or that's going to be an everlasting Thing is not a religion, but it's going to be a kingdom and it and it's a kingdom. So It made me think about how I was brought up the things that I learned growing up, you know, there's a soul focus on the gospel and and conversion of souls and We don't get involved in politics.

There there's a separation between religion and politics. It's it's just about you know, the gospel and conversion of souls but here Jesus speaks in in Kingdom terms in the New Testament. Jesus speaks in Kingdom terms.

And the Great Commission is go baptize nations. I'm not sure how we What happened what point in time where we? Left that out we we Switched it or or turned a blind eye to it. But it's so to me that was intriguing when I was looking at the statue and and saw.

What was being talked about and what was not being talked about. Yes yes, the gospel is part of the kingdom is it's how you enter into the kingdom, but. But Jesus is Jesus is about taking over the whole world healing the whole world reconciling the whole world.

Not just the conversion of souls.

Right.

How however? We don't want to we don't want to understand The the taking over the world as something that happens apart from the conversion of souls because really what we're saying is is not that That we're here to.

We're not here to change the world by imposing or enforcing Our our viewpoint on someone else it's not a top-down sort of thing, right. Even when you look at the what happens in in Daniel. In Daniel 2 the the stone that is without hands comes and Destroys the nation's meat meaning that it's Christ's kingdom.

It's something that's happening. That's not of the same political Material that these other nations are are built from so when it smashes it It doesn't smash it through through the same means as they derive their power.

The the way that the the nations of the earth are destroyed is through the gospel of Jesus Christ Coming into the hearts of men and changing them from the inside out. So when we want to disciple the nations like we've seen in Matthew 28 we don't necessarily mean we do Preach the goodness of God's Moral standards and laws and stuff.

But really what we want to see happen is The gospel going out changing the hearts of men who then in turn Just naturally adopt as their national standards and laws of the the things that are related to God things that are Put forward by God, so we're not trying to just heavy-handedly Enforce God's rule on people.

What we understand to happen is that things are the hearts of men are changed which in turn will change the way that Civil governments are formed and function because you'll have Christian folks Running things and so if they run things things will become more and more Christian, right?

Well, and that's why we say it's it's Christ's kingdom. Sure. It's it's his method his means his way of doing it and and I think that That phraseology is used elsewhere the kingdom built without hands.

I I'm at a loss for a reference, but it's a New Testament reference if Paul can quote.

If Paul can quote passages of the Bible and say it was stated somewhere saying it's in the New Testament. Close enough for me.

Please don't feel obligated to answer my questions. Appreciate you guys. If you say Aon and Matthew 20 24 3 the end of the old covenant age Then how can you distinguish between that and Matthew 13's use of a on Daniel 12 to speaks of the resurrection?

Which is the same as Matthew 13? In Matthew 1341 the angels reapers gather which is Revelation 14 and is the same concept of Matthew 24 31. Which Jesus says what happened in that generation?

Yeah, I think we'll we'll do better getting to that if we don't just jump around But actually run through the passages like we've planned, okay. Yeah, cuz I mean you we can we can chase stuff all the time, but what we're really trying to Try to put forward is What our position is?

From Scripture. Driving out. So absolutely. We're gonna answer those questions as we come to them but if we jump around to them, I don't think we're gonna lay the necessary groundwork and Interpretive cases neat necessary to be able to answer those things.

Unless we just kind of start from the beginning and roll on through.

So one of the things and one of the things in Daniel chapter 2 talking about laying the groundwork. And there's something that you mentioned last time we talked about it before. But it's it's important to lay the groundwork when we're talking about these things.

Is the time indicators, which is another part? I think it's towards the end of that the chapter that you wrote but um the phrase in the days of these Kings so you have the The the different The different parts of the statue.

And you can you can name them better than I can. There's the gold silver bronze iron and clay at the bottom let's see and then you have the four kingdoms and Then the then it speaks, you know around the last one it says these things will happen in the days of these Kings.

Right, which is going to be the the Roman Empire the king the kings of the Roman Empire.

Right. Oh.

And there was a there was a graphic that I wanted to download and use and it actually gave the the dates. Of those four different kingdoms and and how they just you know, they go one right after the other.

So, I mean it's it's biblical it's historic and and in the context you have this time indicator that says These things will happen in the days of these Kings.

And that's.

You know another part of interpret a biblical interpretation hermeneutics is Interpreting the the unclear in light of the clear and that's where these time indicators Come in handy. So well when you when you have when you're trying to make a distinction between The word age in this verse and the word age in that verse the word world in that verse in this verse you have you do have things that are clear such as time indicators and.

You have one here in Daniel chapter 2 which it says in the days of these Kings. Which tells us? These things are gonna happen in the days of these Kings and it's not something that we should look forward in the future.

I mean to me it would just be the scripture. I Not being accurate if it says in the days of these Kings. But it doesn't happen until 2 ,000 years later. Then it's not it's not being accurate of itself.

Right and some some folks will say that that it's in the future. Because of the mention of the toes. Being 10 toes. Let's try to turn it into 10 Kings or kingdoms in the future. But still that really I mean, I don't know how you have one kingdom that's separated by several thousand years.

And just call it a revived kingdom. It doesn't. I don't.

Right.

Here's another part of Daniel chapter 2 and I know you touched on last time. So What else would you like to say about this part where People want to talk about the the times of the Gentiles and you reference Luke 21 24.

Sure.

Luke See Luke 21 24 He says and starting back in verse 20, but when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies Then know that it's desolation has come near speaking of Jerusalem. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains and let those who are inside the city depart.

Not those who are out in the country enter it for these are days of vengeance to fulfill all that is written for last women who are pregnant and For those who are nursing Infants in those days. For it will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people they will fall by the edge of the sword and Be led captive by all nations and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Now.

When it says the the times the Gentiles are fulfilled we have to understand you what what time period is he talking about. Jesus there in Luke 21 is talking for telling the the destruction of Jerusalem and then he goes on to say later on Let's see He gives the parable of the fig tree and at the end of that he's He's explaining to them.

So also when you see these things take place, you know that the kingdom of God is near being His setting up his rule his reign the kingdom of God that little stone of Daniel that's coming to crush the the nations of the earth.

Truly I say to you this generation will not pass away until all this has taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away. But my words will not pass away. I mean all this is is When it says all this will take place before this generation passes away.

If you back up into 25, you're talking about the Sun Moon and stars and distressed nations are perplexed. See in ways people fainting Powers of the heavens being shaken people will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

These things are or take says these things take place straighten up and raise your heads because your redemption is drawing near so when he talks about the time of the Gentiles, he's also says in the end of Verse 33 down here that the or 32 that these things will all take place.

But with then the generation that's an earshot of these things happening. So the kingdom of God coming upon the earth is going to be a Descriptive of what's happening in Daniel to where the little stone who is the kingdom of God comes and smashes the other kingdoms.

It's gonna happen within the time of the people who are listening to Jesus so when you have Man my brain just shut off. When you have I don't know I Really my brain just quit. Well, I forgot mid-sentence what I was even talking about.

Well, one of the things that come up the reason the time of the Gentiles comes up is because in the Pre-millennial dispensational view the time of the Gentiles is is what they call the church age. Oh, yeah, and and so.

There's got to be a the Gospels got to go out to to all the Gentiles and. When when that time is fulfilled. That's when that's when the Rapture is gonna happen. That's when part of the timetable but but we're saying that the time of the Gentiles that You know Lucas speaking of.

Right. It's something different. Right. The time of the Gentiles then would be those Gentile nations pictured in the Statue of Daniel.

The.

Babylon Medo-Persia the Grecian Empire and then the Romans. That would be the times of the Gentiles times of the Gentiles.

End.

Yeah, those.

They end when the stone hits them and crushes them. It's gonna come through the crew through the the power of the gospel when the kingdom of God comes upon the earth.

Right. Well, and a lot of the verses that you were talking about. As you were talking about these verses in Luke 21 parallel to Matthew chapter 24, which is part of the last question that that our gentleman or I Don't know.

I don't know what gender they are our anonymous questioner asked. Referencing Matthew 24 Daniel chapter 12 and How can we explain the difference in the word age here and age there? It's it's a matter of context and I think that's what Dan was trying to explain when we were looking at the word age in in Luke 21 and In Matthew 13, excuse me, and in Daniel 12.

Context tells us everything. So the context in in Luke 21 and Matthew, especially Matthew 24 Which is referenced in the question Tells us who his audience is Luke 23, which you reference in your paper.

And I know you wanted to you wanted to wait till we get there. But Luke 23 was was the audience was a little bit greater. His audience was wider and then it narrowed down and in chapter 24. His audience was the disciples.

Well, the the context in Matthew 13 is speaking of the kingdom of heaven, right? So he's talking about the After the stone it hit the nation's in the foot and moving forward. What you're talking about in Matthew 23 and 24 is That stone still flying to its target and striking, right?

So you have two different ages one where the age is ending and one where the new age is beginning. So you're gonna have at the end of the the age of the kingdom of God you're gonna have the The return of Christ the separation of the wheat and the tares the the final judgment.

And then when you come to The end of the old covenant era or the or the Jewish age, however, you want to put it You're going to see the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So really you're talking about two different ages.

And it depends on the context of the passage. Which age is being spoken of right? So just because you have the word aeon in there It doesn't necessarily mean it's talking about the same age like we're talking about different things, right?

And that context is key whether you're looking at the word age or you whether you're looking at the word world. And so when we've we've talked about the the end of the age of the Old Covenant and here in Matthew 13 We're talking about the end of the age of the kingdom.

Before the post-millennial second coming at the end of that age. So context context is key and that's how you would.

Jesus is trying to explain the kingdom that he's. That he's actually bringing in Matthew 13. He's talking about the destruction of the the the Old Covenant people in.

Right. Luke 21 31 says the kingdom comes in full when Jerusalem is destroyed 21 31 so you also when you see these things happen recognize that the kingdom of God is near. There's another one of those time indicators speaking to the that audience like you said within earshot.

There's a time indicator they're going to see it that generation and I don't know that necessarily says it will come in.

Full.

In this verse, but it does say that it's coming to them. The kingdom is near. When you see these things happening.

Right and all those things there was a bit of overlap. Jesus is talking about the kingdom that he's bringing in Matthew 13. But there was a sense in which it was among them. While he was still there, but we see that even more in Acts 2 after he's already resurrected.

But we also see it Coming more into fruition as you move into early church history after 70 AD. So I don't.

Yeah, appreciate. Yeah. I appreciate your questions Zach. Could you give us some more clarity on what you mean by come in full? There's another Word that could mean different things like We don't think that it's going to come to fruition or come in full until all of in all of he's Destroyed all of his enemies and last enemy is going to be dead.

So there's the there's the fullness of the kingdom from the partial Protest perspective. So so what are you meaning by the word full? You could mean that it's it's fully initiated it's fully started.

The.

The Old Kingdom Overlap has finished. It's ended. Let's see, let's go to his next question. Would you say New Jerusalem came down in 80 70? Partly. Yeah. Yeah student still coming down. I mean we Write it.

We are the New Jerusalem with a new temple, right? Yep. So the next part of your your chapter here is is Matthew 24. If you want to go there you ready to go there. Yeah, let's do it. And so understanding Matthew chapter 24 Goes back to what we were talking about before understanding the context understand the audience.

Matthew 23–24 and the Destruction of Jerusalem

Yeah, and just a reminder well you started you start in verse 23 so so tell us about what you what you're writing down in your chapter and explain a little bit more about the wider audience versus the The more narrow audience in verse chapter 24.

Yeah, if you chapter 23 and 24 is a it's kind of meant to be read as a whole so in 23 chapter 23 Jesus is addressing crowds and his disciples and he's talking about them or to them about the Scribes and the Pharisees.

He goes through and he he talks about how they they lay heavy burdens on them and how they Like to be in the places of honor like to be called rabbi. He describes a difference between what they're Doing as the leaders of Israel and what God would have them to do.

Christ says in let's see Verse eight, but you are not to be called rabbi. Through you have one teacher and you are all brothers and call no man your father on earth for you. Have one father who is in heaven neither be called instructors for you have one instructor the Christ.

The greatest among you shall be yours shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself would be exalted. He was saying is those Pharisees and scribes were being were exalting themselves saying hey, look how good we are.

Look at how fancy we've become look how well we keep God's law. He's saying that's not how the kingdom of God is supposed to work. He goes on in verse 13 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees Hypocrites for you shut the kingdom of heaven in his people's faces.

For neither you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. He goes on and Talks about how they're blind guides how they're blind men.

How they.

Make make up their own rules how they try to follow every jot and tittle of the law. But they also add in their own Own expressions of it as well. Calls them a blind Pharisees who first clean the inside of the cup and the plate.

But he wants them to have clean Everything. So it goes on. Little bit further in verse 33 he says. You serpents you brood of vipers. How are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I sent the sent new prophets and wise men and scribes and some of you.

You will kill and crucify and some you flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth from the blood of Righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barak I whom he murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.

Truly I say to you all these things will come upon this generation so. Right there. He's saying all of these things are going to come upon this generation being the generation of scribes and Pharisees.

Who are there? Receiving the condemnation that Christ is giving to them saying you are doing these things wrong. You're leading the people astray and because of that you're going to find your condemnation to be just and it's going to come upon you in this generation.

Then he looks over the city Itself and says a Jerusalem. Jerusalem the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it. How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings and you were not willing.

See your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you you will not see me again until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord so you have the scribes and Pharisees are they are going to incur judgment and wrath the Nate the city of Jerusalem, which is symbolic of the entire nation, you know, it'd be the same thing as people saying Washington DC or No, London if you're talking about the UK or whatever.

Your house has left you desolate. No, you have destruction coming on you. So Jesus is speaking to his his disciples and the the larger crowd that's there then they he leaves the temple with his disciples when you start 24 and the point they point the buildings of the temple to him and He you know, how cool is this?

Look at these things very impressive and I'm sure they were beautiful large buildings and he says You see all of these. Truly I say to you there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.

So he's saying you're looking at these buildings all of these things around you the stones that are stacked up the temple here. All that's gonna be thrown down. Then he goes on he explains to them further about the same conversation when he's on the Mount of Olives.

And they asked him this question. He said tell us when will these things be? What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? So you go back and look through what does he just said in chapter 23?