Witnessing to Mormons Part 8: Pearl of Great Price

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James White vs. Nadir Ahmed, March 21, 2008 Part 9

James White vs. Nadir Ahmed, March 21, 2008 Part 9

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15 be diligent to present yourself approved to God a worker who does not need to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth
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Alpha and Omega ministries presents the dividing line radio broadcast The Apostle Peter commanded all
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Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence
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Your host is dr. James white director of Alpha and Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reform to Baptist Church If you'd like to talk with dr.
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White, you can call now by dialing 5 0 8 0 9 60. That's 5 0 8 0 9 60 and now with today's topic.
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Here's James White and good afternoon Phoenix This is Rich Pierce sitting in for James White. Once again,
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I know what you're thinking. You've kidnapped him They've stuck him in a dungeon somewhere and dr.
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White is never to be seen again Well, it may seem like that. We've actually had some discussions
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It seems as though I've been on the air over the last six weeks more than he has but dr. White is once again down in Tucson today teaching for Golden Gate Seminary and this
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Scenario, I think is going to be going on and off a little less often as it has been on As of late and so we will have him back with us next week
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And the following week after that, however, dr. White is going to an apologetics conference in I believe
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Chicago he speaks there every year and he'll be one of the speakers there and So I'll be sitting in again.
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And yes, we're going to continue with our Series on the Mormon Church as we've been going on I want to thank
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Sean Hahn for sitting in for me last week as I was up in Salt Lake City I must say it was a very fruitful outreach up there we
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I think we're getting somewhat discouraged as to the possibilities of what might be happening with the construction up there and what are the
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Some kind of changes that they were making to the actual Physical structure to the site up there and that we might actually be shut out and in looking at the scenario right now
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I frankly am very Encouraged by what we're we're going to be looking at because I think number one because it is a bigger facility
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It'll draw more Mormons up there to the general conference and I think that's why the church is doing that they want more of them the the
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Mormons to come up and That frankly gives us a more direct opportunity to communicate pass out tracks and be able to To touch and impact more of the
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Mormon people. That's why we go up there in the first place we want to share the truth of Jesus Christ the truth of the grace of God and expose the
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Mormon Church for the false religion the the cult that it is and We want to be able to to share that and I just once again as I've shared with you before I Can't tell you how many
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Mormon folks I've talked with that really never heard what the Christian gospel really is
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They've heard the Mormon version of it, but they've never really heard the truth of it. And oftentimes they're they're rather struck by By the truth of the gospel and how biblical it really is
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Well today we're going to be talking about the book of Abraham I've talked to you a couple weeks ago about the possibility of digging into this and I believe on my next show in two weeks
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I'm gonna wrap up this series and getting into Joseph Smith The person as an individual
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I want to reiterate I have said it before that we need to stay on target. We need to stay with what the direct
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Logical or pertinent Issues are and we don't want to get sidetracked and I want to reemphasize
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Joseph Smith is a roadblock when you have someone that you're communicating with when you have someone that is
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Locked down. They are just absolutely convinced that Joseph Smith was a true prophet.
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You cannot Ignore that you have to deal with it you have to focus on it and you have to be able to demonstrate that Joseph Smith was in fact a false prophet and It is absolutely necessary that that you do so and so that's what we're going to be focusing on today
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We're going to be digging into the subject of the pearl of great price Specifically the book of Abraham the pearl of great price is a rather little known
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Book Most folks are familiar with the Doctrine and Covenants and more so as a populace in America we are more familiar with the
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Book of Mormon because of the many many ads at the Mormon Church is placed on Television and radio for the
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Book of Mormon and giving it away for free Recent ads that I've noticed they've switched to giving away free
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King James Version Bibles and I frankly was surprised they didn't switch to that technique long ago.
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I wouldn't doubt that they're having more success getting people to to get their own
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Bible To start off with and then try to transition into the Book of Mormon and then go from there into the
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Doctrine of Covenants But the pearl of great price Frankly albeit that is a little -known document.
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It frankly is one of the more impactful Documents when it comes to Mormon doctrine we have talked in May when we did our series we talked about the
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Mormon beliefs in eternal law of progression that there was a pre -existent pre -existent spirits the
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Priesthood we got into all these different subjects that God was once a man lived on another planet on and on and on these things as A whole are really found in the book of Abraham in the pearl of great price and just to kind of break down for you
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What the pearl of great price is in a synopsis? It's a variety of different things.
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First of all, you have the book of Moses which is basically a rewrite of Genesis and kind of digging into Joseph Smith's early
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Look at it. Then we have the book of Abraham which now keep in mind here because this is what we're going to be focusing on today is supposedly translated directly from Egyptian hieroglyphics and That's a key thing because we're not talking about reformed
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Egyptian hieroglyphics here like he claimed with the Book of Mormon. We're talking about Egyptian hieroglyphics the real
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McCoy from Egyptian papyrus Then you have Joseph Smith's version of Matthew 24 his rewrite of it
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And then after that you have extracts from Joseph Smith history Found in documentary history of the church volume 1 chapters 1 through 7 which includes the first vision story
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And I want to emphasize that that is the 1838 version not the 1832
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Version or the 1834 version which are quite different, but we'll do that under the program then you also have the 13 articles of faith and Basically the the pearl of great price was originally published in Pamphlet form by Mormon church leaders in England in 1851 and it was later canonized at the
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October General Conference of 1880 in Salt Lake City and that by a unanimous vote.
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So the Saints In the book I was reading and I'm going to talk to you about this book here in a little bit but in the book
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I was reading it really didn't specify whether it was a Complete vote of everybody attending the conference or whether it was the
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Council of the 70 or if it was the 12 Apostles I'm not sure and I don't want to be
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Absolute on that but there was as it was depicted a unanimous vote in 1880 for this to become part of Holy Sacred Scripture And so we need to keep in mind that as we examine
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Joseph Smith and we examine the book of Abraham the pearl of great price We need to understand that in the
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Mormon mindset this is Equivalent to and in many cases supersedes the
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Bible as a holy scriptural document It is binding if you will on the conscience of the
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Mormon people. It is absolutely binding now I'm going to talk to you about a book here that I've been reading and Alpha and Omega ministries.
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We haven't offered this book in a while But I think after the show today I would think that you would be rather interested if you want to dig into this if you are into Researching the the
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Mormon Church This is an extremely valuable book to have it is by author
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Charles M Larson and is called entitled by his own hand upon papyrus a new look at the
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Joseph Smith papyri And we're going to get into this. This book is very well put together. In fact has a very a full -color fold -out of the papyrus
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That was eventually and I'll get into this found in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in 1967 and then eventually turned over to the
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Mormon Church and You can see the scrolls for yourself.
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You can see how they put together how they fit together and in this fold -out is very impressive
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With with how well they did this. Like I said, we used to offer this book.
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We haven't for some time And frankly, it's it's been more of an interest in it it is the getting into the book of Abraham does require a
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Specific interest and desire to get into the book of Abraham itself and dig into the background of Joseph Smith's ability to translate
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Egyptian But this book thoroughly equips you to be able to examine
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Joseph Smith on that Basis and to be able to deal with the arguments that the Mormon Church has put forward
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In trying to deal with and fend off the criticisms that have been put forward there and I will be reading excerpts from the book today
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It's it's going to be I think quite an interesting eye -opening experience now the impact of the
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Pearl of Great Price on doctrine is key first of all
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In Moses 6 through 7 in Moses 6 7 the gospel was known and in place with Adam and From pages 18 and 19 of the book by his own hand upon papyrus
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The sheer volume of this newly discovered Bible related material was surely impressive enough you'd favor with God now
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This is also reiterated in the book of Abraham That's why I'm reading this section here But the joy of Joseph and the faithful they noted that book that Abraham made repeated repeated references to his lenient lineal priesthood authority and Actually, I think
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I got a little bit ahead of myself there on my quote The Moses passages is about the gospel what
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I'm reading now has to do with the eternal nature of spirits from Abraham 318 and also
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Abraham for one describing the nature of God and his formation of This planet let me go on But to the joy of Joseph and the faithful they noted that Abraham made repeated references to his lineal priesthood authority
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Which he referred to simply as the priesthood. This was highly Significant for some within the church had begun to criticize
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Joseph for introducing back in the mid in mid 1831 the office of high priest within the church
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These dissenters argued that the whole matter of the priesthood had always been a temporal affair
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Developed in the days of Moses and strictly confined to the Levites until the time of Christ when it was abolished
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These critics were the same people who had refused to accept as Scripture some of the writings of Moses rewritten by Joseph in 1830 under the influence of direct revelation in These Joseph had argued that the priesthood was an eternal power in his attempts to reason with these dissidents
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Smith pointed out the revelation contained in Doctrine and Covenants 27 which referred to referred very plainly to the bestowal of the priesthood upon himself and Oliver Cowdery in the spring of 1829
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This he argued occurred long before there had been any question of authority in Response his critics charged that the revelation had simply been altered more recently to include these teachings
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After they had already been put into practice but the book of Abraham changed all this for it stated clearly that Abraham had held the priesthood of God long before the
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Levites existed And if any still cared to question the matter the original manuscripts themselves were on display for all to see
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The challenge had been met and answered both Joseph status as a prophet and the doctrine of the priesthood authority within the church had been vindicated by the timely appearance of the book of Abraham and Then we read on here from pages 20 and 21 regarding the same subject
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Following the episode concerning Abraham's wife and the Egyptians the translation of the ancient record broke off from any semblance of Paralleling the biblical sequence of events and instead recounted an entirely new episode in an elaborate vision
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The Lord is described as instructing Abraham on the principles of astronomy whereby the heavens are likened unto eternal progression the pre -existence of spirits and the governing of Celestial realms of deity
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It is here that Kolob the great governing spear sphere near to the place of the residence of God Is first mentioned in fact the only place that Kolob is ever mentioned in LDS scripture is in the book of Abraham Where it is discussed in both the text and in the inspired
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Explanation of one of the three facsimiles that are included in this part of the Mormon canon of Scripture In explaining the facsimile that depicts
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Kolob the Prophet also made a number of references to the secret phrases and Passwords connected with the ordinances of the temple subject.
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He was just beginning to teach privately among the Saints at that time It provided insight into God's plan for organizing the earth and peopling it for the second estate by the kinds by the spirits of mankind
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Gave further details of Lucifer's rebellion and an account of the resulting war in heaven over the issue of man's
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Free agency and so you can see here as we break this down that there is some major things that are contained within the book of Abraham and as Mr.
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Larson points out there were very timely in 1835 1836 as the
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Translation of the book of Abraham started to come about The other impactful thing had to do with the denial of the priesthood to the blacks this is mentioned on page 22 some of the significant differences when the book of Genesis had been
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Corrected by the Prophet the first time in 1830 the text he produced retained the
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Bibles and Moses's emphasis That there is only one God in Joseph's 1842 translation of portions of the book of Abraham.
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However, did he distinctly taught the plurality of God's a concept of deity?
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Joseph had started teaching a few years earlier But one which many Saints neither understood nor appreciated the book of Abraham also introduced the first and only
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Scriptural basis for denying the priesthood to blacks the church's official position until 1978
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It described Pharaoh and the Egyptians as descendants of Ham and Canaan the progenitors of the
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Negro race and under the curse of Canaan and disqualified from the priesthood that found in Abraham 1 verse 21 22 26 through 27 now
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How did this book come to be? How did this how did all this occur? We're gonna get into that as we progress through the program
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I do want to mention that the phone lines are opening up now at 602 274 1360 that's 602 274 1360 if you're out of the
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Phoenix Metro dialing area, we have a toll -free number for you at 1 -888 -550 -1360 1 -888 -550 -1360
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This is a live program and we invite your phone calls Well, let me tell you a little story here
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About a guy named Michael H Chandler. Okay, Michael H Chandler was a traveling showman and When the
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Saints were still in Kirtland, Ohio Mr. Chandler came to town on July 4th 1835 and He well,
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I'll just kind of let you Follow along with me as I kind of try to depict how it was that mr.
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Mr. Chandler would Present these mummies to folks as he traveled around the countryside
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Step right up ladies and gentlemen step right up direct from the pyramids of Egypt for Egyptian mummies see them with your own eyes
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Direct from Egypt you can see them as they are mummified and you go on and on and on just can imagine the the
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The van that he would come into town with as these four mummies were stored in the back of his his carriage or his wagon with his horses
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Pulling him along and he would just set up in a town and he would just start showing off these mummies and everybody today is
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Going what's the big deal with mummies? You got to be kidding me Well back then in the mid and early 1800s.
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There was an absolute fascination in this country with Egyptology the pyramids were being discovered by the
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West for the first time and Our archaeologists were over there and they were digging and they were discovering all kinds of things and it was absolutely fascinating.
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Well sadly some of the other things that occurred were that the pyramids would be ransacked and They would be they would take things out of the pyramids like the mummies themselves
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And so this gentleman had four Egyptian mummies that were I guess perfectly mummified and they were he was going around showing everybody
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I mean they didn't have TV. So this was a major element of Entertainment for folks in that day and age and so this was this was something that really intrigued people though and they would really want to have to look at and So as he would go around and show these four mummies and do his step -right -up routine
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Well in Kirtland, Ohio There's a group of people called Mormons and They They were absolutely fascinated by this.
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This was an amazing thing because well, their prophet and president was having well, he was under some criticism and his his critics were making all kinds of allegations in his direction because he claimed that he had translated the
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Book of Mormon Using reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics, where did he get these reformed
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Egyptian hieroglyphics? Well, he got them on golden plates golden tablets that he had dug up as an angel showed him where to find them and we can get into Joseph Smith history and and all the the details of the different attempts that he made to recover them and then he wasn't holy enough, etc, etc, but The point is he had these and then once he was finished translating the
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Book of Mormon the golden tablets were taken back By the angel they were taken up and so some of the criticisms that he would receive is hey, why should we believe
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Joseph? I mean after all it's his word against well, we just have to take his word on it
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Where are the golden plates so we can see them for ourselves? We want to be able to look at them We want to be able to touch them and feel them and know that they're real but we only have his word for it how can we know for sure that he's a really a seer and a prophet as he says he is and so the
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Saints decide they're gonna buy the mummies from Michael Chandler and Mr.
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Chandler, first of all, I guess their approach was they wanted to get the debt the the the papyri there were there were manuscripts
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There were underneath the arms of one of the mummies and there was a manuscript underneath the head of this mummy
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And they were really more interested in that than they were the mummies themselves But mr. Chandler would not part with them just the manuscripts if they wanted them they had to buy all of the mummies and So the
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Saints decided to go ahead and buy the four mummies for and imagine what this must have been like in 1835 for $2 ,400 that's right $2 ,400
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And that's pretty good chunk of change in 1835 I would think it really is and so they gave the manuscripts they took the mummies and presented them to Joseph Smith and Mr.
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Smith, I think finding this an absolute absolutely fascinating thing started looking through the manuscripts and doing his seer thing and Well, he he then began to talk and learn teach that these were actually by his own hand upon papyrus the writings of Abraham when he was living in Egypt now you think about that a second
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Suddenly Joseph Smith has discovered the writings of Abraham in Egypt When not not when he was old mind you this is when he first went to Egypt, you know when he told
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The Egyptians that Sarah was Sarah. I was his sister Not his wife because she was beautiful.
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And by the way, the book of Abraham goes into the fact that apparently well let's just put it this way the book of Abraham corrects the
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Genesis account and tells us that It was actually God in a vision that told him to do that.
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That's that's quite a correction Given the context of the book of Genesis, but we won't go there today
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But think about it. And this is exactly the motivation that the Saints had when they decided to buy these mummies if Joseph Smith had
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Egyptian hieroglyphics right in front of him for everybody to see and He could translate those hieroglyphics because you see he's a seer and they just have to be reformed
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Egyptian hieroglyphics The point is he was a seer and a seer could translate anything and that's the big deal there
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He could translate anything and this would once and for all prove that Joseph Smith could in fact translate
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Egyptian and it would silence his critics He would silence his critics within the church and it would silence his critics outside the church those persecuting
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Mormonism And what's more think of the significance? That this would have to the outside world
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The outside world would suddenly be absolutely fascinated with Mormonism because God has see how
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God has brought once again to the Prophet Joseph Smith These artifacts and now within his hand he holds
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Direct writings from the from Abraham and what's more is he also
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Claimed that he well, wait a minute. Was it Joseph Jacob? I'll have to get back with you on that one after the break
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Suddenly, I'm drawing a blank as to which was the other name that he claimed The other writing was he didn't actually translate that one as to as to the source of that but The impact of such a find the document would be
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Just about 4 ,000 years old it would in fact be the most ancient writing manuscript known to mankind
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Unquestionably its impact upon the modern world and what it in fact had to say
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Would be unfathomable Absolutely unfathomable and yet Joseph Smith had this and claimed that he could translate now one of the things that roadblocked
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Joseph Smith or the outside world to be able to test Joseph Smith was we We know how to translate
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Egyptian yet It was a dead language. It had been lost and they didn't they hadn't cracked to the code just as of yet And so when
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Joseph Smith comes along and he starts talking about the book of Abraham and That it says all these things and you've got the teachings these extra teachings and the rewrite of Genesis and of course, you know
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As he claimed this is portions of this manuscript is what Moses used to write the book of Genesis Well, this is a direct a direct link to Abraham himself to find out what he actually said
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And once again, we can compound the issue that Joseph Smith and so many others went want to make in our day
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And that is that the Bible is untrustworthy. It's not complete. You can't really believe it and And that it has not been translated transmitted to us intact and so this would most definitely
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Impact that issue Let's see here looking in my notes get on to the papyrus themselves after Joseph Smith made the translation in the book of Abraham and if you have a
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Pearl of great price handy it happens to be in what's known as the triple Which contains the Mormon the book of Mormon the
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Doctrine and Covenants and the pearl of great price If you have one of those I would suggest you turn to it and we're gonna focus on what's known as the facsimiles
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These were hand -drawn Redos if you will or copies of different images that Joseph Smith found on the papyrus and They have actually been copied in to and published in the book of Abraham themselves and so the facsimiles themselves are actually considered part and parcel of the
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Mormon Scripture known as the book of Abraham and we can Actually look at these and see how well
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Joseph Smith did That's that's a key issue as we as we focus on that The papyrus was
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Well, it kind of got it went along with Emma Smith after Joseph Smith was killed in 1844 Emma Smith and Brigham Young kind of had a split amongst themselves there and Emma insisted that Joseph Smith's son
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Joseph was to be the next prophet of the church and she felt very strongly that this was something that Was to be handed down amongst the
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Smith family line. Well, Brigham Young disagreed quite sharply with her and He declared himself or was elected
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I can't remember how that process but Brigham Young became the next prophet of the church well, Emma split with that if you will that was one of the first split of the
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Mormon Church that ever occurred there been Quite a number since then you don't really hear about that. But the first split that occurred and Emma took her son
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Joseph and She stayed behind in, Illinois as Brigham Young moved the rest of the
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Saints the majority of the Saints out to Utah And we're gonna continue looking at the book of Abraham right after this
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For their part the Saints trusted the word of the prophet and felt no particular need to vindicate
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His work to the rest of the world and even if they had desired such vindication Joseph's papyri collection was unavailable
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It had passed into the hands of his widow Emma who refused to follow the leadership of Brigham Young and had remained in Nauvoo, Illinois so as far as the
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Utah Saints were concerned the world could simply go on and go its own way with its knowledge and the
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Saints would go on their way with theirs that from page 25 of by his own hand upon papyrus now
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I've mentioned before that if You'd like to get a copy of this book, I don't think
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I really finished my thought on that You can do so I will be in the offices of Alpha and Omega in the afternoons
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Monday through Friday And you can contact me if you're interested in getting a copy of the book if you're listening on the
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Internet email me go to www .aomin
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.org and Click on the email link there that will email me and I can then
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Determine how many are Desired to get and we can get them for you. I believe they're going to sell through us around $10 .99
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$11 somewhere else somewhere along that line and We can get a hold of them it is a unique work in that regard and so we didn't move a whole lot of them and so we kind of went to a as the need came up we would get more of them and But as far as our research goes in the information that they have compiled here
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They have put a tremendous amount of information together in this book. It is a very valuable tool to have
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Going back to the issue of Emma Smith and the papyrus well,
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Joseph Smith supposedly gave us the book of Abraham through the papyrus and he Insisted that This was the last word on the subject
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But after he died Emma stayed behind and she got to keep those those documents and Brigham Young went on his way
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Well somewhere along the line and I'm not exactly sure how they wind up in Chicago as the stories told
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But it was believed that they were lost in the Great Chicago Fire later on and That this was the end of the discussion that there wouldn't be no evidence for us once we could translate
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Egyptian to be able to go back and And be able to talk to Joseph Smith or talk to Joseph Smith be able to look at Joseph Smith's work
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And and examine how well he was as how good he did as a seer
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I invite your phone call 602 274 1360 602 274 1360 the phone lines are open now, or if you're out of our dialing area 1 8 8 8 5 5 0 13 60 1 triple 8 5 5 0 13 60 now, let's let's move along and do a little examination of Of well, first of all,
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I got to finish the story and determine how exactly we can Examine the book of Abraham and how well
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Joseph Smith did and there were a few challenges over the years There were three major challenges based on the facsimiles that Joseph Smith had or and I don't know if Joseph Smith did the drawing
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I don't think anybody really does know That are found in the Pearl of Great Price, but they were basically traced or direct copies of it
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Now the interesting thing is is that we dig into this particular book and I can't show you that because we're on radio
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Sure would be nice though but if you look at the depictions or the the facsimiles that they have here in the book and You can see that there are particular areas of the documents that had worn away and that were missing for Joseph And so he kind of guessed as to what they should be and so he filled that in and in Joseph Smith Document number one they they numbered them one through eleven.
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I believe it was Hugh Nibley that did that you can see that for instance, there is a facsimile number one papyrus called
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Joseph Smith one There is a standing figure on the left that has no head that portion of the papyrus has disappeared there was a another section of the
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Person that is laying down that is missing as well. And so you can actually see as what
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I'm looking at a intermediate step in producing correct restoration He he actually redrew in some of the documentation that has since been released the exact Representation of the papyrus itself and that's been apparently in in church archives for some time
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But when we look at the restoration of facsimile number one papyrus based on the modern study of Egypt ology
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Joseph Smith put a human head on the person standing when it was in fact supposed to be the head of a jackal
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Again, we're talking about the religion of the Egyptians here. And as I continue on discussing this matter
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I want you to keep that in mind the Egyptians and by Western standards certainly by the standards of Christianity had some very strange and bizarre beliefs as we're going to get into the actual nature of these
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Papyrus now or papyri, I guess is the actual plural term for it, but To someone's big surprise.
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In fact, I'm going to turn to the page page 30 here Page 31 and I'm gonna read for you something happened in the spring of 1966 that amazed everyone now the manuscripts are supposedly destroyed in the
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Chicago Fire, right? One day in the early spring of 1966 a professor of Arabic studies
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From the University of Utah in Salt Lake City entered one of the vault rooms in New York's huge Metropolitan Museum of Art Seeking supplementary material for a book.
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He was writing. I Was in one of the dim rooms where everything was brought to me. Dr. Aziz s a tia or a
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Taya would later recollect Something caught my eye and I asked one of the assistants to take me behind the bars into the storehouse of documents
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So that I could look some more Dr. Atiyah soon located a file that contained an apparently forgotten collection of Egyptian papyri 11 tattered pieces to be exact which had been glued to stiff backing paper in the 19th century in an effort to preserve them
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The crude preservation efforts had been remarkably successful nearly all the papyri contained beautifully clear and legible writing mostly in black with a small part in red and Many contained illustrations as well
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But the vivid scene depicted on one fragment in particular was striking strikingly familiar to professor
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Atiyah Who though not a Mormon himself was well acquainted with the collection of?
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Various writings his LDS friends and associates revered revered as scripture When I saw this picture at you would later explain to them
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I knew it had appeared in the pearl of great price Thus began an extraordinary series of events which led a year and a half later to what?
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One prominent Mormon scholar has termed the most momentous transaction for the church since the angel
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Moroni retrieved from Joseph Smith the golden plates of the Book of Mormon and Eventually as the story goes on Joseph or the
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Metropolitan Museum of Art eventually presented the Mormon Church with the the actual documents the the papyri and Turned it over to them and it has in 1967 and subsequently been
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Actually verified that it was the genuine article and now we have within our possession the ability to be able to check
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Joseph Smith and the Saints in 60s and late 60s got very excited. They became very
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Excited over the issue of being able to Well don't look for themselves
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Quickly the publication started moving into action pictures of the book the papyri themselves started getting prepared for the subsequent translation
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By Egypt ologist that would then take place and I'm gonna hang you right there on the edge of that syllable as we go to As we go to Martin We're not going to a break yet.
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We're gonna go to Martin in England and Are you there
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Martin? I am rich. I'm here. How are you today? I'm very well. Thank you. How are you? I'm doing great I don't know how much of the show you've had an opportunity to To listen to now.
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What is it? What is the city that you live in over there? Well, I live in Birmingham, which the city the suburb is called
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Barclay Green. Mm -hmm And you and I actually chatted a little bit yesterday and You you had some information that I had
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I don't think I'm familiar with About the book of Abraham and you wanted to share that on the air today.
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Yeah. Yeah I got information from a Christian. He's an astronomer astrophysicist and It's basically talking about the planet
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Colob. I don't know if I can read it out. It's sort of a half a page Okay, sure
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It's done according to Mormon the Mormon scriptures doctrine covenants Abraham three our galaxy
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If not all galaxies is positive to contain countless planets either already or soon to inhabited by human type life
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The greatest of these planets is Colob Colob is said to be the greatest of these planets because it is quote nearest the throne of God But also is quote the greatest of all the kokai beam that has been seen and quote which quote
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Which signifies stars or all the great lights which were in the firmament of heaven and Quote more of at least two of the stars and possibly 15 or more the stars and planets the moon and the earth and the
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Sun Received their light from Colob Colob is also said to be surrounded by a great many stars Which are near to Abraham three to according to the same passage to Abraham three the greater
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The planet the longer the rotational period Colob is the greatest and has a day equal to a thousand years
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Now, how do these statements square with the facts of astronomy? Observations convince astronomers that stars are very different from planets
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Visible stars to Abraham are large and it gives you the size of stars They produce huge amounts of light through nuclear fire talks about how stars are produced
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Says planets the other hand are small It is now known by astronomers that the ability of planets for life depends on its size
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But it's very close to the dimensions. The earth can maintain stable water cycles talks about you know, that the fine -tuning of life a
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Live -support planet must have a rotational period close to 24 hours If it is if it is as brief as it is for the greater planets
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Jupiter and Saturn Thousand mile -per -hour winds result if it as long as Colob's thousand -year thousand -year day
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The night temperature would barely rise above absolute zero minus 460 degrees
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Fahrenheit while day temperatures would exceed the melting point of lead 621 degrees Fahrenheit a live -support planet cannot exist too close to many great stars as in quotes
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Such star would disrupt the planet's orbit and undergo explosions that would detect that would terminate the planet's life -forms
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However, there are more fundamental problems life -support conditions. It talks about how
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You know, you know, I mean, you know the fine -tuning of the universe So then if you've read anything in it It's not that basically only our planet is still fine -tuned enough and the idea of millions of planets out there is just You know just completely unfeasible
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Recently scientists proved the universe requires a transcendent creator the creator in Mormonism is not transcendent rather He dwelled in his kingdom on one of one of the planets for universe
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Obviously the Mormon Colob is an impossible is an impossibly inhospitable place for life Obviously two are its violations of the principles of the astronomical structure
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And I thought that was interesting. I mean, I don't know how you necessarily use it But it seems interesting to me like, you know, when when when
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Christians talk about, you know Archaeology. Yeah, and we can point to archaeology and say well look we can we can prove this and just like when
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Christians point to Just look science and say look there's science the back of the Bible as this guy Later says somewhere else
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He said if they can't be trusted on what they can what if we physically observed or physically tested and should they be trusted?
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What can be you know on the spiritual side of things? You know, the thing is that I listened to that and It is it is interesting information
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The challenge I have with it is that is See I I think that you can simply
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Prove on the basis of the evidence that is direct and that's more indirect and speculative
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Oh, yeah You know I mean We get into the possibilities of all kinds of issues when it comes to Mormonism And I like to stay away from that as much as I possibly can
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But it is an interesting comment that this individual is is making so yeah
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Let me go ahead and have you hang on through the break here at Martin. We'll wrap up as we go to The break and we'll be right back
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And we're back with the dividing line, my name is Rich Pierce sitting in for dr. James White today
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We've got Martin on the line in England, you know, Martin I was thinking about that quote that you gave there and the interesting thing is
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I I don't necessarily See it as a direct impact necessarily on the book of Abraham It's indirect, but I do see it as direct on the overall doctrine of God when it comes to their doctrine of pre -existence, etc when it comes to To their they're basically the doctrine of pre -existence and that God lived on another planet, etc, etc
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And I think it is relevant there and I will tell you I've got I've got basically coming up eight minutes
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To basically show that Joseph Smith mistranslated the book of Abraham Horribly, and so I better get running on to doing that task before the show ends
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The time the clock is unforgiving in that regard and I want to thank you for calling in today We always appreciate it when you call
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Martin. Thanks, Rich. Okay. Take care. Okay. Take care. Bye Okay moving along.
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Well, the we've got to the point where it's 1967 and the papyrus is is out there it's in our hands and How did we do?
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Well, you know There is a huge story about how this all unfolded within the pages of by his own hand upon papyrus
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It is a fascinating read. It really is and if you you want to get the book, like I said contact me, but essentially the translation of the papyrus
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Directly is as follows and mind you This is what it actually says not what the book of Abraham actually says and my remember
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This is from an Egyptian funerary document. The interesting thing is is that was found on an
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Egyptian mummy Osiris shall be conveyed into the great pool of Khans and likewise
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Osiris whore justified born to tic a bit Justified after his arms have been placed on his heart and the breathing permit which is which
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Isis made and has writing on its inside and outside has been wrapped in royal linen and Placed under his left arm near his heart the rest of his mummy bandages should be wrapped over it
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The man for whom this book has been copied will breathe forever as the spirits of the gods do
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This translation was done by dr. Klaus bearer who was the professor of Egypt ology at the
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University of Chicago It is part of what is known as the Egyptian book of the dead, which is an
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Egyptian funerary text Interesting that would fit right in and be very appropriate with an
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Egyptian mummy. Hmm. Okay moving right along Well, what was translated as what? Well Abraham chapter 1 verse 1 and 2 was translated from the
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Egyptian word. They shall Abraham 1 7 through 10 was chant translated from the
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Egyptian word in Abraham 1 11 from the word thee and Abraham 1 11 and 12 from the first half of the
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Egyptian word for pool and Abraham 1 13 and 14 from the other half of the
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Egyptian word pool including 76 English words Abraham 1 16 through 19 includes 177
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English words from the from Khans the Egyptian moon God Abraham 2 20 through 22 from the
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Egyptian God Osiris. I think you get the idea The papyrus actually date from around 100
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AD Thousands of years after Abraham if Joseph Smith could not translate the short segment of Egyptian found on the papyrus
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How could he possibly translate the 500 plus pages contained in the Book of Mormon?
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Well, where'd the book come from? Well, take a look at the 12th chapter of Genesis and you can see for yourself where he got it now as far as Another image and we've been focusing that that translation supposedly came from the facsimile number one located in the book of Abraham facsimile number two and This is contained
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I'm gonna be reading from a tract that we have here and I do want to say that Given the limit time that we have in the program.
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We've asked for your phone calls prior in the program, we won't be taking any other calls today, but given the circumstance facsimile number two, we have a tract called men is not
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God and I need to read from that very quickly here as we move along But if you look at facsimile number two in the book of Abraham, this is what's known as Egypt an
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Egyptian hypocephalus That's right. Hypocephalus and it as I recall was found underneath the head of the mummy and the recovery of the original facsimile that was drawn was in the
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Mormon Church vault for the longest time but facsimile number two from the
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Pearl of Great Price represents God according to Joseph Smith in Figure seven if you look on on the figure seven
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It's actually as you look in the lower right hand corner and you actually have to turn it over to actually see it right side up represents
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God sitting on his throne Revealing through the heavens the grand keywords of the priesthood as also the sign of the
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Holy Ghost unto Abraham in the form of a dove Is this indeed the representation of the one true
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God sitting upon his throne revealing the grand keywords of the priesthood? with Joseph Smith a man ahead of his time able to decipher
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Egyptian writings and in a time when Scholarship was just starting to get a clue on the topic the object of Joseph Smith included in the book of Abraham is in reality a
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Hypocephalus a common item of Egyptian funeral literature all the facsimiles in the book of Abraham are drawn from common
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Egyptian funerary texts or documents It was placed under the person's head and was to aid them in making the journey through the nether
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Netherworld by bathing their bodies in light many examples of this kind of hypocephalus are to be found
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One of the many pagan gods pictured in this hypocephalus is shown and again I want to point out this is a family program.
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And so I'm going to try to Gently as gently as possible Express what's written here one of the many pagan gods pictured in this hypocephalus is shown above It's shown on the tract as it appears in the current edition of the
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LDS scriptures Egyptologists tell us that this is the god min min is an if a phallic
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God that is well aroused an aroused male deity as the picture clearly indicates men is the god of the procreative forces of nature
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Joseph Smith told us that the Egyptian God min was in point of fact the one true God and what is min doing?
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Well, if you can see it for yourself, you can see for yourself Joseph Smith tells us that he is revealing the grand keywords of the priesthood and the sign of the
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Holy Ghost in the form of a dove before him in reality He's holding up the divine flail in one hand and being approached by the figure
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Joseph Smith Identifies as the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove in point of fact Joseph's hypocephalus was damaged at the border
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So that only the head of the dove is visible So Joseph had to restore the picture and did he do so correctly?
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No, he did not the figure to the right provides us with a proper scene from another hypocephalus late in ams 62
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The being that is approaching min is not the Holy Ghost in the form of dud dove. It is yet another if the phallic figure
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Specifically a serpent probably the Egyptian God in the head back in the head. Gah the head cop Presenting to men the we jot.
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I the symbol of good gifts The single LDS scholar who has written on them on the most of the book of Abraham.
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Dr. Hugh Nibley has written of men as the supreme sex symbol of gods and men men behaves with shocking promiscuity, which is hardly
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Relieved by its ritual nature His sacred plants are aphrodisiac aphrodisiac ul and he is everywhere presented as Indulging his incestuous relationships with those of his immediate family
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He had the most numerous and varied religious entourage of all the gods consisting mostly of his huge harem
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Talking about Egypt here folks the hymns or rather chanting of his worshipers are accompanied with lewd dancing and carousing and the exciting stimulus of a band of cistrum shaking damsels
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This from Hugh Nibley's book Abraham in Egypt page 210 It must be remembered that Joseph Smith said that this figure represented
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God sitting on his throne Incredible as it may seem intelligent well -read LDS are fully aware of the true nature of the hypocephalus
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Including the presence of men and Nehebka the vast majority of LDS. However are not
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How do they explain this Mormon Egyptologist Michael Dennis Rhodes said Joseph Smith mentions here the