Paul Williams' Comments

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic here is James white.

Weather, Travel, and Upcoming Appearances

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line on a Thursday in October. We're starting to act a little bit a little bit like October. Well, November. Well, December. Well, we live in Arizona. But it's cloudy outside.

I got rained on this more in fact, I started to try to ride this morning I didn't go back. I was getting rained on so much it cleared up a little bit later and then I rode but we got we had precipitation we have clouds and we have wind and Some places in the valley it will dip into the 50s tomorrow night, which is exciting.

Very exciting. Yes. Fifty nine. Come on. That's in the 50s 50. You gotta take what you gotta get man. He died in three quarters. That's still below 60. That's all that matters. So anyways Oh, LaShawn was just saying a good late afternoon live DL then the game.

I assume she's referring to the vice presidential Smackdown, I'm sort of worried about that to be honest with you because if if Joe Biden Manages to get one complete coherent sentence out. He wins. I mean, that's how low the expectations are I mean as long as he doesn't go Then he wins that's it because that's that's about what the level of expectation is.

I'm a professional debater folks I know these things and when you have a when you have expectation level. For For uncle Joe of yeah, the vertical of a credit card. That's just that's bad. That's really really bad.

Oh, oh, no. She says the Steelers Titans game. Okay, well she's got her priorities, right doesn't she. That's funny. Anyway, I would like to remind folks in the Delaware area I will be Saturday evening October 13th 6 to 9 p .m.

I gotta keep clicking the previous button here Delmarva Christian High School gym Georgetown, Delaware free admission do Christians and Muslims worship the same God and so I will Invite you to be with us and then I will be preaching the next morning as well.

We don't have that on there, but I will be preaching the next morning. Hmm. Just not there Anyways, I don't know why we don't have on the on the banner ad but that's okay, but that's coming up this week next week will be in Livonia, Michigan and for the whole week and Couple those days.

I'm gonna be sneaking over to a BN and doing some teaching for the Aramaic broadcasting network there and that will be that'll be exciting and Anyway, so that's what's coming up now.

Pew Research on the Rise of the "Nones"

A.

Very very interesting article. I love I love a love Al Mohler and the briefing if you do not have Al Mohler and the briefing as a part of your every morning listening then I. You're missing it. You're missing it.

You're missing it. If you want to hear a fork about 14 minute. Period of sanity during your life during your day. That's it is really really really worth. That that kind of thing that kind of investment.

And Dr. Moller mentioned I believe yesterday morning a Pew research study that had just come out Protestants are now 48 of the American population. In other words Protestants are longer the majority Catholic 22

Mormon 2 Orthodox I would assume that's Orthodox Jewish 1 Other faiths. Which I would mean I imagine it isn't funny. Islam Buddhism Hinduism throw them all into one big pile and call them other faiths.

6 don't know 1

And.

Nuns the NO NES 1 out of 5 20 percent listed at that point now. One of the things that was that was brought out that was rather important. Today fueled by young adults the nuns have leapt from 15 .3 of US adults in 20 set 2007 to 20 now that.

That is an amazing one in three of the nuns are under age 30. Unlikely age and unlikely to age into claiming a religion says Pew Forum senior researcher Greg Smith. The new study points out the today's Millennials are more unaffiliated Than any young generation ever has been when they were younger.

Now when I heard this I.

I.

Understand the initial reaction to this. The initial reaction is well. There you go there is the secularization of the United States not one level the strip this is this is the open clear obvious Secularization of the United States and A lot of people would look at that and say this is a bad thing.

The younger generation is is not even pretending. But the very fact that we say that Makes me go is this really a bad thing or is this just more honesty? Than we've had in the past. Now I wish that 85 of the population of the United States of America in response to polls Would say I bow the knee and repentance and faith to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

And if they lived that way that would be wonderful, but this would be a completely different nation if that were the case we could not have had.

The.

Political conventions that we had we could not have had.

The.

Constant.

Worship of.

Abortion and homosexuality and the perversion of marriage at one of those political conventions that we had. If that were the case because said political party would not be able to get elected dog catcher if 85 of the people United and look if 49 Or 48 of the population of the United States actually said the same thing and Did the same thing and live that way?

This would still be a completely different nation. We all know that when people say well look look at that 60 a 70 of The American population claims 72 Throw the Mormons in there Claim to be Christian Between Protestants Catholics and Mormons almost three-quarters.

You telling me? That this world Looks at this nation and sees anything even slightly reflecting that No way no way We murder babies at the drop of a hat. We are perverting marriage we we exalt every kind of of sexual perversion and sexual license on the planet and if 72 of this nation was actually even Slightly Christian that wouldn't happen and so we've all known if we've thought about it.

That all these numbers all these these Polls and stuff like that were not reflective of anything that was real anything that was that that had any reflected reality at all and You know years ago my My daughter you're driving home from church one day and she was talking about the Christian school that she went to and She was talking about how she didn't want to go there anymore, and we said well, why is this because I I don't know any Christians there.

We're like what and she started talking about it, and it's a problem with Christian schools that very frequently parents will just throw students in there because the public schools have gotten tired of them, and they've got the money to do it and One of the things she said was I prefer my pagans straight up.

Thank you and I I agree I Think it's easier to evangelize. Someone who does not make a self-righteous hypocritical claim to religious faith that's one of the real problems, that's one of the one of the really bad results of the Denial of the gospel that is the anti lordship.

You can have faith in Jesus, but you don't have to repent for your sins. That's a bunch of works, and y 'all see that video before before the guy pulled it down this way. Was that is it yesterday morning day for yesterday?

Yesterday morning I posted a I I woke up. I got in channel and pinkster in channel Said I'm watching this video ten reasons why James White's going to hell. How's the first thing? I saw in the morning.

I was great as a wonderful way to start the morning. Thank you very much get up. And there's someone who's putting an entire Thing up about you know ten reasons why I'm going to hell well if you listen to it.

It was just not even absurd is not an appropriate term to be used for the mishmash of Irrationality and is Jesus and everything else that that was the basis of that but evidently people say it's brother Jack I couldn't even find out who it was I don't know.

But if it's brother Jack then You know brother Jack is an anti lordship guy and there you see what happens. You don't have to repentance that's works that James White's teaching work salvation and blah blah blah and.

That.

That is the issue. When you have that kind of preaching it's gonna produce a church filled with unregenerate people with driftwood. Who will respond to you know I can just see the the pew religion researchers going through a a Neighborhood and knocking on doors, and would you have a few moments to answer some questions, okay, and there you're standing there, and you know you're.

You haven't been to church and I don't know how long and you don't ever give a thought to the Bible or Jesus or anything else and You're you're standing there with the bear in your hands and You a Christian yeah, I'm a Protestant.

Well that sort of inflates the numbers a little bit doesn't it, but that's really reflect anything. No it doesn't and So when you have and dr. Moeller made a very excellent observation He made an observation That this is a good thing.

That it is a a good thing because all these nuns no NES Very clearly need the gospel of Jesus Christ. And they're not already making a profession in a false gospel, and he's and he's even made the observation.

He said you know there's been long for a long time people have been saying That you can sort of I Guess the term be friendship people into the church you can you can get them you get them started on Christianity light.

No challenge to their their sinfulness no challenge to their self-will no no call to Bow to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in other words the faith that you teach them is not the biblical faith. It's not saving faith.

It's it's something less than that. And then over time they will grow into wanting more that's been the theory. But as dr. Moeller pointed out these numbers demonstrate. Just the opposite. That that's not what happens.

That they don't grow into wanting more they grow into wanting less.

And.

That's Represented by the numbers as we see them so when I see These numbers I expect them to continue to go down unless there is One of two things either a sudden rise in hypocrisy in the United States.

And you know we saw that on September 12 2011 people who hadn't even mentioned the word God outside of profanity. For a couple weeks there were saying God bless America. And they might have cleaned up their language a little bit, or you know just just for a little while.

It's just just not for long. So I suppose we could have a you know a big increase in religious hypocrisy that would change the numbers. But the only thing that can really change numbers is if is if God changes the hearts of people and that's exactly That is exactly what this nation and every nation needs and so It's a little bit like the sermon that I taught I preached a few years ago, and then in fact I will be summarizing and sort of making application to this in in Delaware out of a first John chapter 2 I titled it the blessing the blessings of apostasy and What I meant by that was There is something good There is something right there is something proper in Making distinctions that clarify the gospel and What the Bible teaches us is that when the gospel is being preached in the church It's going to have a result, and it's going to drive out Those religious hypocrites who are playing games and It is necessary That they go out from us so it might be demonstrated.

They were not truly of us if they if they stayed amongst us. That's what causes confusion. Look in our own land. How many people outside the Christian Church? have a really clear idea of what the gospel really is because of all the false Gospels and everything else and so When you think even of these numbers Protestant 48 that includes United Church of Christ Which is an apostate denomination?

That includes all the liberals Who do not believe in the deity of Christ or the resurrection of Christ or the inspiration of Scripture? What percentage really does represent? Believing Christians, I don't know I Don't know.

I don't know how anybody could actually Pursue that particular inquiry to be honest with you, and I don't know what to guess. I really don't I Thank God that there are believers in almost every denomination.

I Mean there are some where you just go why on earth would you be there, but you know God still has his people I guess Some are just completely apostate denominations, but the fact the matter is that only a small percentage of even that 48 Would reflect regenerate believers.

So.

When we look at things like this the natural reaction is oh. Look at that if we just we just need to get that number back up above 48. That's gonna. That's gonna change everything. No, it's not. I mean look at the debate the debate.

It is tonight. Isn't it? Yeah look at the debate tonight. As anyone well, I know people have dr. Moller even point this out, but if you thought about this What's the religious affiliation of both men?

They're both Roman Catholics and yet could they have a more diverse view of Ethical and moral issues. No couldn't couldn't have it. So it is fascinating to to note that All four of these candidates presidential and vice presidential candidates.

You.

She'll look at the logical spectrum Represented there, and it's about as wide as you can get. I Mean we know what Barack Obama has said about the Bible and we know What his pastor thinks about the Bible and what black liberation theology is all about.

Someone I saw online I would love to see verification of this because I this would fascinate Me this would be extremely theologically relevant. But I've not seen any confirmation of it. I wish somebody to ask a question, but I did you see this article.

I saw an article where the the writer was alleging not just simply on some theory, but Says that they have sources for this. That the ring that Obama wears. You saw this. He got some emails about that the ring that he that he wears has the shahada on it now that would not shock me.

Because there is no question Whatsoever. That at a time in his young life. He said the shahada. There's no question about that and if someone's wondering what the shahada is that is the confession of faith that makes one a Muslim and It Probably just has la ilaha illallah or someone like that on it in Arabic if it it's even the case I would be fascinated that would be case because someone taking his liberal perspective would not see that as being what Conservatives would take it.

Yeah, that would be. That would be a connection between him and his father and his heritage and and you know all the rest that stuff it. It would not in all in any way shape or as I say he really is a Muslim.

No, no he believe me the things he's said and done are not things that a Muslim would do but he was a Muslim once which makes him apostate Muslim and There's only one law in in the sharia for apostasy from Islam, and it is it is death and.

So you've got someone who's gone from that to this wild Crazy you call an heirloom. Maybe it's it's possible. Yeah. This wild crazy rings from my father. That's me Tato he came up with that one. That's good rings from my father.

That's good. I only met him once so which is which is a sad thing honestly I mean honestly folks we are dealing with the result of broken families in that situation. We really are I mean on a national level that one broken family has had massive impact upon each one of us now.

Don't tell me you live on an island. Don't tell me you're changing you've of marriage isn't gonna affect my marriage. Here's one situation where one man who was in essence a functioning polygamist. His abandonment of wife and and child that child ends up president United States and Therefore influencing the moral fabric of this country think about that one for just a moment but anyways the wild form of religious liberalism that Obama embraced Black liberation theology and all things there together with the liberal Roman Catholicism over against The Mormonism that no one is quite 100 certain.

Exactly. How that functions in Mitt Romney's thought process. Because I'll be honest with you. I don't think Brigham Young could have been elected governor of Massachusetts. Okay, I mean seriously and this has nothing to do with Brigham Young's wives.

Okay. This has nothing I want to say right now to everyone listening. I am NOT making any commentary whatsoever about Brigham Young's wives even though I would encourage you to go online and find the graphics of them and.

But that had nothing to do. I wasn't thinking about that really what what do you want to add that you're going.

Are you trying to work up a disclaimer here for the moment disclaimer? Yeah.

The views expressed by the director of the ministry is not necessarily. Well, they have to don't they? Oh, man. Yes, this is first lady Loretta and this is first lady Jamie and this is firstly. Oh brother anyways.

Getting back to the point I Don't know how Historic Mormon theology which views the Constitution as a divinely inspired document well that influence I mean could a believing Mormon nominate To the Supreme Court of the United States a justice who was not an originalist.

I don't know I. Good question. It would seem that a Mormon would be significantly more likely to.

Nominate as.

Consistent with his worldview an Originalist a person who believes that the Constitution should be interpreted in light of what it originally meant. But hey, they're liberal Mormons. I Don't think the Romney family is overly well known for being liberal in their theology.

But who knows who knows.

So and.

Then you've got so you've got a Mormon of.

Unknown.

I'm not gonna say of unknown Mormon credibility because it's not that's not the case. You know, we just. Has he been able to? disconnect the Mormon worldview from His political worldview, I mean it almost had to do that in in, Massachusetts I mean that is a liberal liberal liberal liberal liberal state.

One would wonder when the last time he did his temple.

You know what I doubt when you've got the kind of money he's got and you donate the kind of money he donates. I Bet you he can jet into Salt Lake and do his endowment stuff and I bet you he gets access.

He's I bet she's never had to go to a temple other than Salt Lake. Because going to Salt Lake is I mean, that's that's the Cadillac. That's uh, that's that's you sure.

They didn't just go ahead and give him a pass. I mean, hey, you know, you don't need enough.

No, no. No, I I'm. You can you can bet that was a temple marriage and you can you can bet he does his His temple work. You bet he does you bet he does so.

So.

It's a fan, Massachusetts is so left-wing it flies in circles. That's right. And If it gets way out wide it runs into California, which is also going in a left-hand circle, too. As well as everybody in the Northwest anyhow.

Yeah, it's then just over the flyover area and in between where the rest of us are going. What are those people doing. But anyway. So you've got that with with on the other side and then you've got Paul Ryan.

Who by all accounts is a believing conservative? All the way. Roman Catholic probably likes Catholic answers and everything else. Type guy and. That's quite. And so and right now on the Supreme Court Roman Catholics and Jews not a single Protestant.

Roman Catholics and Jews no Protestants. So. This might have some impact upon some who go. Well, I'm not gonna vote for anybody but an orthodox Christian. Well, you got no way to vote for. There ain't nobody there by any by any stretch the imagination and.

That.

Will raises the question how do Christians when they are a small minority true Christians true Orthodox Bible-believing Christians. Believe the Christian scriptures that they'd have the same view of the scriptures that Jesus himself had.

What do you do? When You are in a society where you are a teeny tiny minority and therefore and therefore Nobody up for election reflects your perspective. What do you do? That's what we have to deal with folks.

That's what we have to deal with fascinating of someone someone on Twitter. I just just saw who is this this is Burn Roberts. Just put a Twitter pickup of me. Evidently froze the video frame with my mouth wide open and put in a bubble thing.

I've never met a consistent Muslim apologist and it's where I'm staying right next to the MDI thing. There's there's Doug McMaster's head glowing clearly in the foreground. I Hadn't seen that before man, but No, you must have snapped that picture.

I have to save that one. I'm gonna have to find that and save that to my iPhoto collection there. That's that's rather cool. Anyway, I just just some thoughts that I wanted to. Uh-huh. That's interesting.

Bigelow just posted something about Mitt and Ann were married on March 21st 1969 when it was 22 and I was 19. First part of their wedding took place in Ann's parents home in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan in a civil ceremony officiated by church elder Edwin Jones had around 250 guests including President Ford and received congratulations and award from President Nixon.

Next morning Mitt and Ann flew to Salt Lake City and were sealed for eternity in the Mormon temple. I told you I didn't know that. Thank you big low. But does not surprise me and that is not uncommon.

Especially for someone in politics you want people to be able to come but they can't go in the temple. I mean Richard Nixon, especially. Go in the temple. So there you go. Interesting flew to Salt Lake City and Had.

Had the.

Sealing for time and eternity there. So anyway some thoughts as Protestants is the title to the pew thing was as Protestants declined those with no religion gain. Well, were they really Protestants in the first place is the question or is this just simply the American?

Secular nation is being more honest than it has been in the past. Is that a bad thing? I don't happen to think that is a bad thing. I I think it's a bad thing in the sense that anyone who doesn't bow the knee to Christ, obviously it's under the wrath of God, but I Think it's easier to deal with someone who is open about it than someone who pretends that they actually do Bow the knee to Christ when in fact they do not.

So there you go. All right. I have two things queued up. And we have gone through the first half hour. And Maybe if I can make rich do some work on the other side of the windows. We can take a quick break.

I can swig some whatever it is. I've got in this thing here and come back and do a little more with Bart Ehrman and Dan Wallace and Paul Williams and All the rest that stuff before we get on a plane tomorrow and head for the East Coast.

See you all In that area tomorrow actually Saturday evening anyways, we'll write back.

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Transition Back to Paul Williams and Debate Methodology

Easy way Thursday we're gonna be here for the regularly scheduled programs next week. It's the week after that. It's going to become somewhat problematic. As I'll be in Livonia. I think we might be able to work out the Tuesday.

But probably not the Thursday of the week thereafter unless of course something Just earth-shattering happens like Ergen Kanner comes out and repents, you know, well, we will do a special dividing line.

If Ergen Kanner has anyone heard anything about Ergen Kanner for months now I mean, he's just like Disappeared off of the radar screen and Toto and coming up on you know this February three years since that that whole thing started and Repentance has yet to take place unfortunately anyway.

We were at the very end getting toward the very end of Paul Williams opening presentation and it's been so long. Let me remind you of something I When he finishes Which he will hear in just a matter of moments Chris Green gets up and Begins his rebuttal period and and Chris Green said, you know, I haven't done very many debates.

I don't know if you remember if I don't remember if he said this was the first one he had done or anything like that but he makes a Major mistake the same kind similar mistake not the same kind but similar mistake to what Adnan Rashid did in our debate a couple weeks ago and That is you.

You you do not turn control of your time over to somebody else. Even if you think they're on your side or whatever else it might be remember I'd none trying to get that guy to quote from sir to and it didn't really quite work out the way you wanted to and in fact gave me a.

Excellent.

Excellent opportunity of actually Countering his argument with with documentation, which was very very useful. But in this situation Chris Green Actually asks Paul Williams a question I don't like when that happens everybody got all over Obama because Obama was looking down during the presidential debate.

Look when the other guy is speaking I'm writing. I mean, I'm trying to take down. Of course, I'm talking about a 20-minute statement here unlike a couple minutes. Where you you know, if your other if your opponent only has two to three minutes to speak.

Okay, you can remember the points you need to make when you got a 20-minute statement. You got to start writing this stuff down and so on and so forth. And I really don't like it when people turn to me and address me and expect me to respond to them.

When they're saying at the microphone and I'm not the microphone That's wrong, that's it's a in in a formal debate that would not be allowed there aren't that many formal debates These days and so anyway.

That's gonna happen here. And of course, I think Paul Williams used Chris Green's mistake to his full advantage, but we'll get there in just a moment. Let's pick back up with where we were with Paul Williams openings statements.

Paul Williams on Jesus in Acts and the Synoptic Gospels

I.

Would like to make a brief mention of the Apostle Peter's first speech recorded in the book of Acts. He has this to say about Jesus' status before God. You that I israelite. As you yourself know.

Now is there anything there that a Christian Finds troubling that is contrary to Christian affirmation of the humanity of Christ the prophethood of Christ.

No.

But you know that his argument is he's he's just a man. He's just been made Lord. He's just been made Messiah. Just been made Christ as. If that was Peters, you know, remember this is same Peter that you know starts off with that Granville Sharp construction in 2nd Peter 1 1 and Identifies Jesus God but and had identified him as the the son of the Living God in Matthew 16 and so on and so forth.

But that's the idea. And again, who's that aimed at. That's aimed primarily.

At.

His base not at Christians, but again, this man is allegedly a former Christian. Wouldn't he know that.

Now.

Now by the way, one of the reasons I know that's exactly what what his target is is. Because you know something. He made no explanation. He just read it and moved on. When someone does that they're assuming that the way they read it and what it said is gonna have a certain meaning.

They don't have to explain it. And yet for a Christian you'd have to explain how that somehow is contrary to what we believe. Because it wasn't obviously.

But.

Now here you have the again the the voice of modern skeptical scholarship and much of scholarship in general that does not allow for. The analogy of faith of the analogy of Scripture does not allow for inspiration.

Which.

You would expect in debating Bart Ehrman again coming from the Muslim it is just as Inconsistent and contradictory as it can be. Because applying those kinds of Presuppositions those starting points would mean that you cannot assume the consistency of the Quran.

You have to Look at the various times and frames in Muhammad's life. You have to look at the Quran is only right reflecting Muhammad's understanding and if you can make an argument That's what is great.

But that's the starting point of that kind of thinking and that's the starting point of this kind of thinking rather than Proving that. Well when you enter into John, it's a it's a completely different world.

Don't worry about that stuff in Matthew 11. It sounds like John Don't don't worry about all that stuff. You can come up with in Mark that has such a high view of Jesus you know, let's just let's just Simplify stuff to such a point where it's no longer even slightly accurate.

And if you repeat it enough times, well people will believe it.

Word.

There is of course no contradiction because we already pointed out the Contra the error in The citation from Mark 3 and interestingly enough. He's about to go after Richard Balcom. But Richard Balcom I have played on this program also giving that interpretation March 3.

Now.

How do you respond to that. I mean it's a really bad argument, but how do you respond to it there. The assumption is That you have this clear high affirmation on John the Baptist part of The Messiah ship of Jesus at the very beginning the gospel John but the synoptics have John's sending a Message.

G is saying are you the Blessed One or should we be looking for someone else? So what do you do with that?

The.

Skeptic assumes its contradiction. Are there other possible explanations? They don't even offer to think about other explanation. Where is John? Well, first of all in the synoptics does John make a Profession of who Jesus is the one whose shoes he's not even worthy to unlatch.

Yes, he does. Does that come before he sends the messengers? Yes, it does. So what's going on when he sends the messengers? John's languishing in prison. John is hearing that Jesus is. He's not doing things that are necessarily what John expected the Messiah to do.

There were a lot of misapprehensions as to what the Messiah was going to do and John was a man of his age and he may have imbibed some of those misapprehensions if you're sitting in jail and The Messiah is there and you think the Messiah is gonna have all this political power.

Maybe the Messiah would free you before you're executed. Possibly.

And.

And how do we know this is the case. Well Paul Williams isn't gonna look at this because Paul Williams isn't trying to handle the text with any accuracy or honesty but What's Jesus's response to the messengers that are sent to him by John?