LDS Spin: Eternal Progression

The LDS Temple Presentation and the Hidden Face of Mormonism

Alpha and Omega ministries presents the dividing line radio broadcast. The Apostle Peter commanded all Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us. Yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence.

Your host is dr. James white director of Alpha and Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. If you'd like to talk with dr. White, you can call now by dialing 602 274 1360.

That's 602 274 1360 or if you're out of the Metro Phoenix dialing area, it's one eight eight eight five five zero thirteen sixty. That's one triple eight five five zero thirteen sixty. And now with today's topic.

Here's James white.

Well, they say they have 600 ,000 lights out there this year. I don't know. I've never been out there during Christmas to be perfectly honest with you I'm speaking of the LDS a temple the Arizona Temple out there in Mesa, Arizona.

And last night they had their opening ceremonies as I understand it and now thousands of people are flocking on to the temple grounds to see all the lights hung from the Trees and in various sundry other places, and I'm sure it's quite pretty.

The problem is what are the lights hiding? Well, that's what we're talking about today on the dividing line last week. We started looking at the subject of how false religions can present such a such a pretty front they can present such a a Pleasant appearance when you first begin to look at them.

And of course, they've learned they've learned from Madison Avenue they've learned from the advertising gurus out there that if you want to bring people into a Particular place whether it be a store or a religion you need to give them what they're looking for.

You need to give them something that they like or makes them feel good. And so various sundry false religions are very very intent upon providing to the quote-unquote seeker and I don't think it's an issue of a seeker in the sense of someone who's seeking after God but seeking after the benefits of God without the Responsibilities of dealing with God but they want to provide to people something to make them feel good.

Something that will cause them to become a part of their group. And so last week we looked the fact that Roman Catholic apologists, well, they they like to. They like to talk about things like even purgatory doctrines that were normally very much repulsive to those outside of their own communion and sort of Prop up purgatory as something that's much nicer than we thought it actually was.

Well last week I was going to talk about our subject this week, but I somewhat waxed a little bit long last week. We began talking about Indulgences and purgatory and things like that had some good calls.

Mormon Secrecy and the Public Face of the LDS Church

So this week we turn our attention to the LDS Church and if you go out to Mesa if you go out there during the Christmas season, you will see the 600 ,000 lights that they've hung there. And of course if you want you can take a tour of the visitors center and some very very nice people.

Frequently sort of grandma and grandpa style folks some very very nice people. Will greet you and maybe some young folks that are are clean and moral and nice will greet you and You're not gonna see much while you're visiting the temple grounds that would tell you That what is believed by the LDS Church is significantly Different than what is believed by the vast majority of those who are coming on to the grounds who are Protestant Christians.

Well that there's a purpose for that. There's a reason for that and that is Mormonism is very much involved right now in making itself Look as mainstream as possible while Struggling to maintain its very unique identity.

The result of this has been that there are two sides to Mormonism. Two faces to Mormonism. The face that you see on television. The face that you see and the Representatives of the church. The face that you see when you attend the various functions of the LDS Church.

Whether it be the Christmas lights out of the temple or whether it be the Easter pageant coming up in Shockingly small number of months when you think about it a Easter pageant that we attend every year to pass out tracts and witness to People when you go to those events, you're not going to see the the inside of Mormonism.

You're not going to see the theology of Mormonism. You're going to be given something that is much more palatable to you and Yet when you start digging into the documentation of Mormonism into their own documents what they teach their own people.

You get a very different story and my friends that shouldn't be. In fact, if you if you get a different story on the inside of religion. Then you get on the outside of a religion. I would suggest to you that you're looking at a cult.

Because Mormonism is well known for its secrecy. Not only are its temple ceremonies considered sacred. They are considered secret and Interestingly enough I mentioned to you just a number of weeks ago The fact that a lawsuit has been filed against the Utah Lighthouse ministries Gerald and Sandra Tanner because they placed a section of a copyrighted internal manual a manual for bishops in the church.

A manual of how you're to appoint people to various positions how you're to handle and this was the port Part that they were quoting how you're to handle removing people's names from the church rolls.

Many former Mormons individuals who have discovered what Mormonism is really all about and have come to know Christ as their Savior and desire to have their names removed from the roles. The church can find it to be a very frustrating experience.

Mormonism has a large hierarchy and many processes through which you must go. And so the tanners posted a segment of this manual on their website to help people who want to remove their names From the rolls the church.

Well now they're getting sued for having done that and the material is available elsewhere on the internet but for some reason I guess because the tanners are the tanners and the tanners live in Salt Lake City and Utah is the is.

You can't tell where the government starts and the church ends in Utah. There is no. No two ways about that. In fact, just noticed this past week that the ACLU has filed suit against the church because the church bought Main Street in Salt Lake City and are are going to be creating a a Park type situation right right next to Temple Square so on and so forth.

Anyways, since they're in Utah. Maybe that's why that's taking place and the other people even in the United States that have posted the material. No one's bothering them or at least not yet. But anyways Mormonism has its secret side and for some reason, you know.

Here's here's an example of something where I would think that no religious group would really want to avoid. Having people know how to remove their names and the roles of the church. I would think that if someone came to a church and said you know what I do not want to be associated with you anymore.

That the process of having one's name removed should be not only fairly simple, but readily known to everyone. But this is just one of the many examples. We have the first presidencies vault that remains locked and there are all sorts of documents in there that if they were to be released Would would rock the very foundations the Mormon Church, but Mormonism has its secret side and so there's these these two elements to Mormonism you have the outward face and then you have what is taught within the church a Number of years ago a book came out you've heard us talk about before entitled how wide the divide a Mormon and an evangelical in conversation.

Craig Blumberg from Denver Seminary and Stephen Robinson from Brigham Young University wrote it. This was in 1997. I wrote the response to it or the review of it for the CRI Journal, which is available I believe online right now if you wanted to read my comments on the entire book at equip org if I recall correctly I would imagine that's all of the journals up through 97 are are available.

But just to give you an example. Similar to what we did last week. We we talked about how Roman Catholic apologists would present a particular doctrine in a way that sounds good to Christians. Well, listen as Stephen Robinson who is one of the leading scholars and apologists for the Mormon Church presents the doctrine of deification in a Conversation with an evangelical this is how Mormonism wants to present this to evangelicals.

Why. So that it can be more acceptable to us. Here's what it says. This is page 80 if you happen to have the book in the matter of deification Latter-day Saints believe that God intends through the gospel of Jesus Christ to transform those who are saved by Christ.

To be like Christ. Moreover, we believe that God will succeed in what God intends. Since Latter-day Saints take seriously and literally the scriptural language about becoming the children of God Romans 8 16.

It makes sense to us that children will grow up to be like their father. According to Scripture God is the father of spirits Hebrews 12 9. We are his offspring x 1729 and offspring grow up to be what their parents are.

Certainly through the atonement of Christ. We have been begotten sons and daughters of God first Peter 1 13. We partake of his divine nature second Peter 1 4 and we have been designated heirs to all he has Romans 8 15 through 17 Revelation 21 7 which is all that the father has John 3 35.

Latter-day Saints might again be charged here with taking language of Scripture to literally. But the doctrine is scriptural and the same passages of Scripture have led many others in the history of the Christian tradition to conclusions similar to those of Latter-day Saints.

For example long before Joseph Smith Clement of Alexandria around 150 to 215 could state that those who are perfected through the gospel of Christ quote are called by the appellation of gods. Being destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first installed in their places by the Savior and quote.

It could of course be argued the Latter-day Saints have misinterpreted the evidence from New Testament and the early Christian Church in this case. But that is merely to stipulate that we disagree over how to interpret what is in fact New Testament and early Christian evidence.

And in that case deification ought not to be considered some pagan idea that the Latter-day Saints have invented imposed on the text. But as a biblical doctrine that may be and has been understood variously by different groups.

After all when Christ appears the sons and daughters of God will be like him first John 3 2. Changed in the same image from glory to glory 2nd Corinthians 3 18. We receive his glory John 17 22 to 23 and sit on his throne Revelation 3 21.

We become joint heirs with Christ to all that the Father has Romans 8 15 through 17 Revelation 21 7. 1st Corinthians 3 22. And we partake of his divine nature 2nd Peter 1 4. What could it possibly mean to partake of the divine nature if the divine nature is not extended to us and does not become?

Part of us. To Latter-day Saints the glorified and resurrected Christ illustrates in his person what the saved can be come through his grace for us. The logic of the scriptures. It is inescapable one Jesus Christ is divine and to through the atonement of the grace of Christ the saved become one with Christ become like him first John 3 2 and receive his image and glory John 17 21 to 23.

2nd Corinthians 3 18. Therefore three through the atonement of Christ the saved become in some sense divine. If a equals B and B equals C. How shall one resist concluding that a equals C? Well, how would you respond to such a presentation?

Most evangelicals have never heard any type of presentation of the concept of deification. In those terms most would not know who Clement of Alexandria was and the number of verses cited would be enough to cause most people to Find some way of ending the conversation fairly quickly.

It sounds so biblical. It sounds as if it truly is a biblical doctrine. Well, this is one of the main reasons that we so strongly emphasize the need to memorize Scripture and to know your faith. So that you can interpret Scripture within its own context those you're listening closely.

Notice that in actuality a couple of verses were cited two or three times. It sounded like there were many Bible passages being cited but in reality There was only a very small handful being cited some of them cited repetitively and in each instance.

What was missing in the application made by this Brigham Young University professor is the fact that the entirety of Scripture? testifies to the uniqueness of God to the uniqueness of the divine nature and the fact that these passages could not begin to be understood in their original context as Teaching that we can become what God himself is is somehow missed in the presentation that dr. Robinson presents.

But our point in quoting it is not so much to critique Robinson and his misuse of biblical passages but to simply point out that when speaking to evangelicals Mormons today are being very quick to make the assertion that theirs is a biblical faith.

Now any Mormon who remembers Mormonism 50 years ago has to recognize that this is definitely a development. It was not all that long ago that for example LeGrand Richards could write the book a marvelous work and a wonder.

And anyone who's read that book and it used to be a book that was given for free to every missionary before his mission. And is still available for a laughingly low price. LeGrand Richards over and over and over and over again in discussing all the unique doctrines of Mormonism says Joseph Smith did not learn this from reading the Bible.

No, this was a part of revelation given to Joseph Smith. It was not that long ago that Mormons recognized the Foundational and fundamental chasm that existed between themselves and the Christian faith and we're not seeking to bridge it.

Now as Mormonism has become more of a worldwide religion that has changed and now the approach changes. So what do the Mormons say within the walls of the Mormon Church? When Mormons speak to Mormons when the Mormon Church Speaks to its people and teaches them.

What does the Mormon Church say to them? Well, that's we're gonna take a look at but first I am reminded that so the phone lines are open at 602 274 1360 602 274 1360 or if you're outside the Phoenix dialing area You are listening on the internet today one triple eight five five zero thirteen sixty one triple eight five five zero thirteen Sixty do not be one of those people who waits until we have only five minutes left and Gets the high-speed FedEx man response to your question.

If you call early you get the nice slow speed understandable response to your question. So give us a call get online 602 274 1360 or one triple eight five five zero thirteen sixty. I hold in my hands a Publication of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints entitled achieving a celestial marriage.

Achieving a Celestial marriage. This is the student manual the temple preparation manual the Mormon Church to their credit. Anyways has Temple preparation classes and they also have preparation classes for a temple marriage and as a part of The studies that you would do for a temple marriage you would receive this manual and The very first page that you would read outside of the introduction to what the manual is says and this is page 4 celestial marriage key to man's destiny.

The first italicized title says God was once a man who by obedience advanced to his present state of perfection. Through obedience and celestial marriage we may progress To the point where we become like God and by the way.

You could go down to the LDS bookstore today and you could pick this up. The last copyright is 1992 by the Port Corporation of the president of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints all rights reserved.

Printed in the United States of America. So this is not something that's from the 1800s. This isn't ancient Mormonism. It's no longer relevant and this is available right now at your LDS bookstore. Let me read Proclaiming the divine potential within man.

John Taylor once wrote knowest thou not that thou art a spark of deity. Struck from the fire of his eternal blaze and brought forth in the midst of everlasting burnings. Elder BH Roberts stated man has descended from God.

In fact, he is the same race as the gods. His descent has not been from a lower form of life. But from the highest form of life. In other words man is in the most literal sense a child of God. This is not only true of the spirit of man, but of his body also.

Can you see the implications these two statements as they relate to you and to your eternal destiny? Elder James E Talmage did he declared in his mortal condition man is God in embryo. However, any individual now a mortal being may attain to the rank and sanctity of Godship.

How is this possible? What course of action will bring this potential into fruition as you study this lesson look for the answers? To these questions and what does the lesson say? Well, it starts off points to ponder.

God became God by obedience to law. That's how God came to be God in Mormonism. You didn't quite hear that in dr. Robinson's presentation as you may recall because no one would even pretend. To attempt to say that the Bible presents the idea that God became a god by obedience to law.

The idea that law pre-exists God is a pagan concept. It has nothing to do whatsoever with Christianity. There is nothing in the Bible that even begins to suggest such a thing and. So when you're presenting Mormonism, you want to make it sound good?

You're not going to be this open. You're not gonna be this clear and saying God became God by obedience to law. But when you're talking to your own people and you're preparing them for activities in your own temples.

Then then we are very straightforward. I read page 4. It was late afternoon as we sat in my office, but I felt the time had been well spent. He sat silently now obviously contemplating the ramifications of the things we had been discussing.

We had talked of God and how he became God and of what that meant in terms of our own exaltation. Finally, he spoke. What is this law of exaltation of which you keep speaking? Well, it involves the whole the gospel law.

Everything required of us by God is associated with this law. But the major crowning point of law which man must obey is eternal marriage. Therein lies the keys of eternal life or as the Doctrine and Covenants puts it eternal lives.

In other words an eternal increase of posterity. I break from the quote just for a moment so that you don't miss what was just said. Perhaps a truck just drove by you in your car. Perhaps the child just interrupted you but I you need to understand the Mormons when they speak of eternal life.

Then retranslate that into the phrase eternal lives. In other words an eternal increase of posterity. In Mormonism the power of God is associated with the power of the priesthood and procreation again, something so utterly foreign to the Christian faith that to present it as If it were would immediately alienate the audience you're seeking to address and so that isn't exactly Addressed very often.

I continue my reading then what you're saying is that God became God. By obedience to the gospel program which culminates in eternal marriage. Subtitle through obedience to law we can become like our Father in heaven.

The conversation continues and I continue my quote. Yes, do you realize the implications this doctrine as far as you are concerned? I think so if God became God by obedience to all the gospel law. With the crowning point being the celestial law of marriage.

Then that's the only way I can become a god. Right, and it is the law that assists us in reaching that potential. It tells us what we must do to gain the ultimate freedom. In fact, it is by obedience to the law that we have progressed to our present position.

You mean we have always been governed by law. Always you are an eternal being. You were never created and you cannot be destroyed, but you can advance progress and develop by obedience to law. Then Hamlet's question to be or not to be is not the right question.

Right, not in the ultimate sense at least. Order means law and that law is the law of the celestial kingdom. Any who come unto that kingdom must obey that law. But I thought God had meant freedom if I have to do the things do things to become God am I really free.

You've got it wrong. It was the Savior who said if ye continue in my word that is obey the law. You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. So by obedience to law we learn truths by which we become.

Not by let's try it again. We learn truths by which we become free but not free from the law. Can you see that? I think so. I can be a god only if I act like God. Exactly, right. Can you imagine the state of the universe if imperfect gods were allowed to spawn their imperfections throughout space?

If beings who did not have law under their subjection were free to create worlds. I Guess that would be pretty disastrous. But I'm not sure I see why celestial marriage becomes the crowning apex this progression.

Marriage doesn't seem directly related to the creation of the universes. I break for my quote from just a moment. Please notice creation of the universes not universe, but universe says. Many Christians get confused when a Mormon will say there's only one God for this universe.

We're a monotheist. Well, that's because Mormons have more than one universe here in their own books, which they amongst themselves the creation of the Universes Plural it's an oxymoron, by the way, but that's the way it works.

I continue with my quote. Oh, but don't be limited by your mortal perspective. God himself has declared his own reasons for existing. Remember he said for this is my work and my glory. I see his purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man Moses 139.

Which involves giving birth to spirit children saying them on the road to exaltation and if that is to be done you must have an exalted man and an Exalted woman exactly an exalted man and woman who have been joined together in an eternal marriage.

If this man and woman were obedient to all gospel laws except celestial marriage. What would be the result? They could still not be gods now. I understand celestial marriage is the crowning ordinance of the gospel.

Right. I said with a smile and with that comment. I think we can end the discussion and Quote Pages four and five of Achieving a celestial marriage student manual published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

There was a lot in there that Some reason wasn't in dr. Robinson's presentation. There's a lot in there that you won't find. Openly discussed by dr. Peterson and dr. Rick's in their book offenders for a word.

When the more missionary comes to your door, they're not gonna be carrying this manual with them and quoting from it. No. Those things aren't gonna be presented. And when the Mormon prophet last about a couple years ago.

Right after Gordon B Hinckley became prophet of the Mormon Church a man who had spent many many years in the LDS Church in public relations. Goes on Larry King or he does interviews with Time or Newsweek or whatever else it might be.

Oh how he is. So very very careful in his words and how easy it is for him to say Oh, we really don't know much about that stuff. You know the stuff about men becoming gods. We don't know a lot about that stuff yet.

You know that Gordon B. Hinckley has read this manual he knows that. This manual speaks. The way that it does here speaks of men not being created and not being able to be destroyed. Looking for the ultimate freedom folks.

What is that? Did you hear what was said in those words? What you have in what I just read you from this particular publication is the very lie of Satan himself. You see Satan in everything that he does attempts to get man to believe that he can be free from God free from being a creature.

Free from being the Potter. Who is created by the hand the pot who is created by the hand of the Potter? It is the very essence of sin for man to pervert the creator creation distinction and to get away from the fact that he is created and he has a creator.

And Mormonism does that because you see Mormonism has no creator. If God was once a man who became a god by obedience to the law, then Mormonism has no creator God and. So the ultimate freedom that is being offered is freedom from being a creature.

Because God and man are of the same species you see as we quoted earlier. This is not Christianity. At its most fundamental basic level it bears no resemblance to Christianity. Because the most fundamental truth of Christianity is that God is the only true God.

God has eternally been God and God is the creator of all things. That's why God can say what is right and what is wrong. Not because the law pre-exists him but because he is the source of all things.

Do you think Gordon Hinkley knows what's in here? You better believe he does 602 two seven four thirteen sixty one triple eight five five zero thirteen sixty. We're gonna take a break if you'd like to comment on our topic today.

Please give us a ring and do so.

Eternal Progression, Exaltation, and the Doctrine of God in Mormon Teaching

We'll be right back and welcome back to the dividing line.

My name is James White and we are talking about the subject of Mormonism today or at least the representation of Mormonism and their own publications and in their public Presentations later on in this very same bit of material.

There is an entire section if anyone picks this up. There's a section of white pages then blue pages and right after the blue pages. We have a section celestial marriage key to exaltation. Let me just read you some of the some of these subtitles here.

God was once a mortal man. Now the more missionaries when they walk into your home are not going to tell you that Unless you pry it out of them. And in fact, sadly, we've talked to a few folks who actually didn't know that.

Even as more missionaries now, you might say well, they knew that they just wouldn't say nah I think these guys actually were completely clueless on the particular subject. God was once a mortal man. Subtitle that is he lived on an earth like our own and the second subtitle he experienced conditions similar to our own and advanced step by step.

Next subtitle God is now an exalted man with powers of eternal increase. Now what was last time you heard a more missionary talk about God having powers of eternal increase? Well, you're not gonna hear it.

You didn't hear that in dr. Robinson's presentation either. The subtitle there is our Father in heaven lives in an exalted Marriage relationship. Let me read the quote they give you here. No matter to what Heights God has attained or may attain he does not stand alone for side-by-side with him in all her glory a Glory like unto his stands a companion the mother of his children mother is capitalized.

For as we have a father in heaven, so also we have a mother there a glorified exalted ennobled mother. That's Melvin J. Ballard is quoted in Bryant s Hinkley sermons and missionary services of Melvin J Ballard pages 205 to 206 and I only mention the irony of this and That is there are LDS apologists out there Who are constantly beating upon my head and shoulders?

For quoting anything in representing Mormon theology except the standard works the LDS Church. How dare you quote anything other than what is found in the standard works of the Mormon Church and yet the Mormon Church in Instructing its own people in its own theology Can quote from sources such as sermons and missionary services of Melvin J Ballard pages 205 to 206 and I don't get the idea.

I Don't get the idea at all That anyone raises any bit of complaint in fact right above that when We read the subtitle says he experienced conditions similar to our own and advanced step-by-step. We have this quotation notice what it's from.

Remember that God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child and mortal like we ourselves and rose step-by-step in the scale of Progress in the school of advancement has moved forward and overcome until he has arrived at the point where he now is.

Is this really possible? Why my dear friends? How would you like to be governed by a ruler who had not been through all the vicissitudes of life that are common to mortals? If he had not suffered how could he sympathize with the distress of others if he himself had not endured the same?

How could he sympathize and be touched with the feelings of our infirmities? He could not unless he himself had passed through the same ordeal and overcome step by step. Now where's that from that's Orson Hyde in the Journal of Discourses volume 1 page 123 and one thing I've learned of late is that if you dare to quote anything from the Journal of Discourses LDS apologists will go postal Go Ballistic how dare you quote the Journal of Discourses?

We don't know how accurate those things are. Oh shame on you. You're misrepresenting us. You're an anti-mormon. You're terrible and horrible, but I doubt any of them have written any letters to the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints the president of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints and Complained how dare you misrepresent us in our own materials by quoting from the Journal of Discourses.

So anyways, we have this assertion that our father in heaven lives in an exalted marriage relationship and Next subtitle we are literal children of God part of his family unit. And this is this quotation comes from Bruce R. McConkie households of faith in the ensign magazine April of 1971 how dare they quote Bruce R. McConkie.

Bruce R McConkie is the is the single LDS apostle that modern Mormons like to disrespect most. If you go with us to Salt Lake City stand outside the temple gates quote Bruce R. McConkie and duck I Mean, I remember passing trying to pass a tract out to the man back before he died back in the 1980s and boy after he's gone.

Every missionary green missionary straight out of the missionary training center somehow knows more than Apostle Bruce R. McConkie ever knew. You quote Bruce R. McConkie and you're automatically proving yourself to be a terrible horrible nasty person.

Well for some strange reason. The LDS Church doesn't mind quoting him and here's what he said. We are the children of God our Heavenly Father. We are members of his family. We are his spirit offspring.

We were born in the premortal life as spirit beings sons and daughters of a glorified perfected exalted being. This holy being himself lives in the family unit. He has a fullness of glory and power and might and Dominion.

We are the literal offspring of the most glorious personage of whom it is possible to conceive He is God Almighty our Heavenly Father. The next subtitle says we lived with our heavenly parents prior to coming to earth and Then a big subtitle it says men are gods in embryo.

Now I read that before but maybe it went zooming right on past you men are gods in embryo. The next time that you hear someone saying oh, this is Christian theology. We're a Christian group. In fact, we have the fullness of the Christian faith.

Remember the phrase men are gods in embryo and God himself was once a man and then compare that with the Bible. Subtitles we have the potential to become like our heavenly parents, you know, the Heavenly Father and the mother capitalized.

Next subtitle this potential was transmitted to us through our spiritual birth and you see there's another example. Spiritual birth that's in the pre-existence not spiritual birth as we talked about and being born again.

Exaltation is attained by going from one small degree to another and that's a quotation. Directly from the King Follett funeral discourse a passage I've cited many many times in my books and in our tracks on Mormonism, but again, you'll find LDS apologizing.

Hey, don't don't hold me accountable to that. Well for some reason the church to the church doesn't mind holding people accountable to that they use it in their teaching right here in their own publication.

Big subtitle exaltation is attainable only in Family units and it goes on from there to talk about Celestial marriage brings many blessings. Exaltation is based on the celestial marriage. Then shall they be gods because they have no end.

Etc. Etc. Etc. Now you think that the Mormon Church knows this is what it's teaching. Sure. So the question is why aren't they right out front and open with all of us? About what they believe. Why when their apologists come out and present their viewpoint do they hide?

Do they hide these things behind platitudes? Or why has the president of the Mormon Church went on 60 minutes or or Larry King made statements and said well. You know, we don't know much about that. When he probably had a hand in the production of this material when he was a part.

And when he was one of the Apostles working within the inner workings of the church, I think they call that dishonesty and It's not a Christian virtue and yet is a part of the LDS faith. 602 two seven four thirteen sixty one triple eight five five zero thirteen sixty.

Maybe there are some LDS people in the audience that would like to attempt to explain. Why it is that you all say one thing to each other in your classes and something else outside. I Know that if you come to our church this coming Sunday morning.

You will hear a Bible study lesson. Specifically this coming Sunday morning. The Bible study lesson will be in church history and we will be looking at the Didache. And one of the earliest writings outside the New Testament.