The Laborers' Podcast- Current Topics and Events

Good evening. Welcome to the laborers podcast tonight. It's going to be a plethora of different things from non experts. We will have a conversation with you about things going on in this world. So stick with us for the laborers podcast.

Welcome to the laborers podcast, which is a part of the truth in love Network. Join us as together. We strive to grow up together in all things into Christ. Subscribe and follow the truth in love Network on Facebook YouTube Rumble Spotify and iTunes.

Now let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast.

Current Topics, Housekeeping, and Conference Promotion

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the laborers podcast. Thank you so much we're so blessed to have each other that God has put these men in my lives and and I feel like they've expressed to me that they're thankful that God has put them in this group and We we love having a conversation with you tonight.

We're just going to talk about some current topics if you have a question. Something you'd like to talk about we'd love for you to join us. The comment line is going to be open. We hope that it makes it to our screen so that we can see it.

Sometimes it doesn't but we hope it does because we would love to have a conversation with you and try to answer your questions. Let me do this little Housekeeping before we get started two things. People who say they they like what we're doing they support the truth and love Network our podcast.

We appreciate them. We want to give them a shout out if you are a church. We'd love to start the truth and love Network Church. Church Network of like-minded believers. But if you're a church a ministry a Christian business owner, we'd love to support you and we would love your support.

But for right now, these are the folks that have said they appreciate what we're doing. I want to give them a shout out real quick. Right, thank you guys for your support and again, let us know and we'll put you on there.

We'd love to give you a shout out as well the laborers 2023 conference is coming up vertical life church in Newton, North Carolina. You can go to vertical life NC church slash conference and see the conference schedule all these sessions.

What's going to be preached the the breakout sessions and we would really like for you to come. We'd love to meet you and see you and also we'd like for you to register if you're coming especially for Saturday.

So that we know how to set up for the breakout sessions. We got a little promo video that I want to share with you. It's a little over three minutes long and I don't want to share the whole thing. But I at least want to get to Brother Jeremy get to his part and so enjoy this little promo.

Welcome to the laborers podcast 2023 laborers conference.

Is Considered a celebrated act. In the world in which we live as Christians We must have a right knowledge and a right understanding of right. God hates sin. God sent his son into the world to die for sin.

2023 laborers conference.

But just as a jeweler cannot see the whole diamond when examining the piece through the loop. The Old Testament was not a look at the full diamond. It was not designed to show us the fullness of God's revelation and plan.

That fullness came in the person of Jesus Christ.

2023 laborers conference that it's important to understand the role of the king and the role of the kingdom. Jesus isn't just spouting out words. He says seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

You seek the kingdom because in seeking the kingdom seek the king.

2023 laborers conference.

Why was Jacob saved and not Esau. It was according to election. Why was there a remnant in that first century and not all Israel saved. It was according to election. Why were any Jews saved at all? It was according to election.

Why are Gentiles saved? It's according to election. Why are you saved?

2023 there we go. Now we could we can start there on that topic be John. I'm just kidding. That's that's the beauty of our group is that we we differ on some things. But we find unit we find unity in Christ.

We find unity in the gospel. We find unity in those those core doctrinal issues that that Christ when he we tore down those walls. There's the dividing wall. That he brings us all together. We're all one in Christ, and we're all just trying to Seek the Holy Spirit keep our mind and eyes on things above and and let him teach us and guide us into all things.

As as Ephesians chapter 4 verse 15 says and we and we speak the truth in love. As we as we do that, but we're we're all in different places on some things. But we love each other's brothers and we're all working towards that goal of loving Christ more.

Glorifying God and sharing the gospel with as many people as we can. So that's where we labor together. In the gospel and in growing in sanctification and in knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Opening Conversation and Shared Testimony

We've got Big John with us tonight real talk with me John, how you doing brother man, if I seem better I'd be a can. I Hope you doing good. Well, I'll give you my shoes for a day, is that right and I think I think my life would improve a whole lot so I.

Think I love you, brother. I wouldn't trust. I wouldn't trust me. I see I've seen me let people down too much.

Jer big Jeremy hole. How you doing brother. I'm doing well, I got a if you see me rubbing my eyes, I'm I promise I'm not crying. I just mowed the lawn. I got grass and dust and stuff all over me, so I Feel your pain you were talking about Mowing taking two hours.

I'm now having to. I have maybe like three quarters of an acre. And I'm having to do it in Parts that that's where I am right now. I'm having to do three quarters of an acre in parts. Yeah, that's crazy.

But uh, how you doing brother Robert? I'm I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm. You know, we got ups and downs. Age seems to be getting a hold of me, but I'm trying to figure things out how I can Maintain some energy, you know watching some videos on how to have some good fix my gut health.

So that I can I can have good energy take care of myself. Take care of my body so that I can keep serving the Lord have have good energy some days. You know energy level drops like crazy just so tired, but I'm trying to figure all those things out just like everybody else.

Figured out let me know Jeremy Jeremy's always looks so fit. Well, I get up early and go work out that's for sure. And that's it that hey, that's a good example to follow right there. Be nice to be able to do that.

One day, hopefully I'll be able to. Yeah, yeah so let's uh, let's jump into some of these topics and and and folks still, you know, We I know I could get a lot of criticism because I'm not read well enough on on these issues.

I'm not an expert and and you know somebody. There's probably folks out there that are way smarter than me that that are on the other side of these issues that could you know? Just run me over with with intelligence, but uh you know, we want to do the best we can coming at it from a Christian perspective and We'll see where this conversation leads us.

The Abortion Pill, Local Activism, and the Pro-Life Response

You know recently there has been. Well, I guess I guess the tide has changed since Roe vs. Wade was was overturned and it in some areas momentum has gained for the pro-life movement. And one of those areas has come up recently where you had a The abortion pill issue come up in in our court system.

And I want to give a shout out some people don't like the group some people do I like the group so I get notifications from them. It's called personhood Alliance. They are They I Would say for the most part from there.

Is it inception or conception not conception inception and from the beginning from the beginning of the organization? They are. They focus on the the local grassroots level so they're focusing on the the city and the council.

They pushed Regular folks going to your commissioners your city councils passing a resolution and I know Resolutions, they don't have the bite that laws do but they are. They want to abolish abortion.

I mean, they're they're all about it. And I know it they don't go far enough for for some abolitionist but they are. They have seek to get resolutions passed and you can't can't do a whole whole lot on the local level.

But recently concerning this abortion pill conversation. And I don't know. I don't know much about citizen go either. But they either connected or partnered partnered with citizen go. Seems to put together these petitions.

They're looking at moral things going on in society. And so they put together this petition. They make created these signs that you could print off and and go stand in front of CVS and Walgreens. I say we don't we don't want you to sell the abortion pill here in our local Walgreens and CVS and they were encouraging to go out and stand in front of the Walgreens and CVS and.

And sign a petition I guess for the national Wherever the national seat is for CVS and Walgreens for them to stop. Stop their pharmacies from being part of the abortion meal. And and stop selling the abortion pill and and I appreciated that work.

I signed the petition wasn't able to go out with a sign but I appreciate those who did and I think that How many states it's been it's been too long now. But but I think in several quite a few states that I think at least Walgreens stopped selling the abortion pill.

So and and I think I think this this endeavor that they took played a big part in it so that's that was that and now it's going to a Court in Texas brought it up and You were bringing up Louisiana earlier.

I think it was New Orleans. It was the other I was reading articles. We were talking the Orleans was the other court that had ruled about an abortion pill. Take Texas the the court in Texas took a stronger stance on Denying the the sale of the abortion pill the the court in New Orleans it I think Took the the more liberal side.

Yes, only abortion people and so and and they're they're both federal level. I think. See, I'm not I'm not up on How all this works? But they must be to some degree or or equally at the same level of judicial level.

And so but they're ruling Differently and now it's got to go kind of to the Supreme Court or go going up a little bit further.

Have you guys I Haven't followed hardly any of that to my shame. I'll be honest with you. I don't. Almost everything you said I would be I'd be speculating if I was to give them very much in opinion. How about you brother Jeremy?

Well, he said more than I already know about it we have some members in our church though. I mean, they would they know a lot about this as well they are. They feel called to that ministry. We're actually this Saturday going to Wilmington where they got the abortion mill there and preaching outside of there as a church, so.

But for me, it's always been just simple, you know, I mean if the baby's conceived that's it like. So all the other issues and stuff like the the pills and all that stuff. I don't I don't really. Haven't paid a whole bunch of attention to apart from like you're still killing a baby.

So right. And we we haven't gone far enough. That's for sure. Like, you know, Roe Roe v. Wade overturned, whatever. But I mean, there's still an abortion mill 45 minutes from my house. So, I mean they could still go right there and get an abortion so we haven't done enough.

And I'm not you know, there there's some certain groups that are kind of Almost like they hate the church because of because of abortion still takes place, but it is somewhat the churches. It's kind of you know.

There's a quote as the church goes so so so does the world. You know when we we allow that stuff It's gonna happen so We need to have more people out At these places speaking the truth. Yeah, I think it also needs to Before I say what I'm fixing to say.

Let me uh, you know, one of the things that we try to do here brother Robert is uh Whenever we're expressing our We're expressing our viewpoint in our worldview. We always try to do it in a way that That one communicates the truth and doesn't love at second at second time At least in my desire is that whatever we're saying is helpful, right?

So if we use big words that have massive amounts of Of Greek or Hebrew meaning or something somebody always breaks that down you know usually Tyler breaks that down for us and what that means and and.

And how you use in the English language or what would be an English language equivalent to this word? And I want to do the same thing here. We didn't talk about this before and I hope you're okay with it.

If I just ask it this way. Oh, yeah. All right. You have the obvious Why does this matter so much to believers that we protect the unborn? That's there's there's a very obvious thing one because it's human life and we should protect this human life.

Because this human life is made in the image of God. There's it's sinful to kill and you shouldn't have to say that this is murder because it's very clearly killing someone and yet everything's been muddied so bad with Secular humanism running running rampant in most most schools and colleges and Courtrooms and things like it.

So then When people ask you why do you care? One of the things that's really got in my crawl bad is whenever people say well as a man. Why do you even care what a woman does with with her womb or whatever, right?

I think wait a minute. Kind of nonsense is that? Am I not supposed to care because it's just not my my particular partner my family or my particular person. I mean, we wouldn't use that logic for anything else, but I'm curious as How would you express to someone who's watching who's already turned their mind off?

Who's already turned their ears off because they've done heard way too way too much About how How our worldviews gonna vary with theirs that they would stop listening. What would you tell that person if they would listen anymore?

As to why you care so much.

The Image of God, Male Responsibility, and the Call to Protect the Unborn

So let me start here. Thank you for asking questions, thank you for Both you guys you can add both of you guys can ask questions help co-host. That's awesome. And and these questions that I put down.

You guys are taking it to where I really wanted to go because you know We don't have time to be experts in all these fields. But we want to know what the Bible says. We want to know what God says about the issue in general.

So that's where you guys are are naturally taking this issue. And I want to make this comment first kind of in a strong way so it's not going to be how I would address. Probably somebody Asking me that question.

So I'll get to that second. But let me answer it in a in a more strong way I think. Whether you're a Christian or You're a non-christian. God is the creator of all of us. Mm-hmm. And he's made he's made men and women but he's made us in his image he's made us in a certain way.

So there's characteristics that that all of us share and carry together because we have a common creator. Yeah, and you were talking about children in in the womb the preborn and and women carrying carrying these children the the blessing of carrying these children and who are we to.

To speak to that issue because we're not women we don't have to carry those children and. And the first thing that I thought of is that one of those things that we as men all have in common. That God has given us is that protector instinct.

That's right. And so these children are innocent. They are human lives. Human beings created in the image of God and the first thing that comes to my mind. Maybe not the first on the priority list, but just tonight, you know as you're talking the first thing to come on my mind was That protector instinct that I think God has given all men and of course We wouldn't be here if the men in our ancestral line didn't take up that mantle and protect their families when there was.

When they fought the wilderness they fought the winners. They they they fought the land to grow food. They fought the wilderness to hunt, you know, that's where we come from and we don't reflect on our history but the men in our Ancestral line we wouldn't be here if they hadn't taken up that mantle to protect their families to build those homes to protect from the elements.

To protect from the wilderness to protect from the enemies to protect from and wild animals and and provide for their families and and we still. And you know, we've let society Jeremy and and John you guys were talking about this before the podcast how society has Changed our view of women has changed the view of men as well.

Men Society has tried to make men effeminate. Even even masculine men. We're are more effeminate and and we we suppress that protective instinct. What you were saying there about why couldn't the guys just go to Walmart or something?

Yeah I mean why not? They're hunting and stuff. They just go to the local Walmart and pick up dinner. Yeah, and and now today instead of going to Going out to to buy diapers they they cower to Their own pride they cower to society.

They cower to their own selfishness because it's going to ruin their life or they cower to the girl who's telling them To go to Walmart and buy the peel. Yeah, well, let me just let me say something on that real quick.

Yeah. The baby's not gonna ruin their life mm-hmm, like They might have that thought and fault might be going through their head, but that's not what that's not this. I'm how many people you know, they go man.

I regret having this kid. I Haven't met that person. I yeah, cuz it there's. Even the ones that Have been turned away From they were going to the abortion mill and they were turned away from it and then had the baby.

They don't regret it one bit now. It might make their life harder. But you know that that's that's not. That's that's really part of life anyways, right like I don't think marriage in itself made my life easier course.

Made my life harder in the sense that I got to work right like just lay around and be a bum and only have one mouth to feed. Right. I had to I had to get up. I had to go to work. I had to you know, leave my wife I have children.

I got to you know, leave my children. It's definitely harder, but it's So much more rewarding. Yeah.

Well something Robert said and he was quoting Paul Walsher, I believe but you know, sometimes I misspeak. So if I say anything out of line, obviously I reserve the right to be corrected. I Want to say he was talking about being tired when you get home at the end of the day.

He said you're supposed to be. Yeah, and and and I know that that doesn't sound. Maybe like the American dream I would. Well American dreams don't work. Yeah, we're gonna get we're gonna get away from the topic.

I'm not careful so I'm not I'm not gonna say that I'm just gonna leave that alone, you know, but we're dealing with a Society that is saying Essentially and it started. I'm glad you brought this up brother Robert.

It started when they started to Demasculize me and when they started to make men more and more whenever when masculinity become a bad word to describing a man. Right, that's where this attack started and it started a long time ago this is this has been a More of an evolution than it has been a revolution and people are only now seeing it because the heat's been turned up faster than they could then they could adjust to it and so Whenever it became a bad a bad term to be considered a manly man, then they wanted everybody to be.

I don't know there's this version of a man that a Woman rules over in a sense. I know that sounds like I'm trying to pit two people against one another. That's what I've seen if you take an older show.

It's a sitcom on television, right whenever I was growing up. Pick one the dad was the guy that everybody got advice from and he got advice from his dad. Maybe a pastor or something like that. There was a clear logical Attempt to figure out what was right and I want you to hang on to that what was right fast forward.

The programs I wouldn't let my kids watch the dad was the dumbest guy on the show. He was the only guy who had no idea what was going on and then. The mom was really running the house and the dad was more of just a figurehead fast forward a few years later.

The parents aren't even in the programs. The kids are running the program. You don't ever see the parents at all and and I'm talking about television. But I'm using something that you can go back right now as soon as we're done and go to YouTube and start pulling up shows and you test me and see if I'm not right and and what you see is what is a mirror of the people watching these shows and Now the attack is against women and I believe wholeheartedly.

You'll never it'll take something extravagant to convince me different. The attack on the family was the first attack in the garden the enemy when it's went against the weakest Person in that garden and the man let that happen.

We've said that piles of times on this program and I still see this exact same attack. We're going against the weakest in the family the unborn the ones that can't do for themselves. We're gonna attack the mother.

We're gonna take the child because the man is going to be a much more difficult opponent. So instead if we can eliminate him from the equation. Then we can we can just run the whole we run the whole outfit with a whole outfit with very little resistance.

Am I am I completely out of touch brother Robert brother Jeremy? Are you are you tracking you picking up on land there?

Actually had this discussion at like 5 o 'clock this morning with another gentleman. Okay, what about the exact same thing? You just said like, you know, we were talking about those those TV shows, too like, you know, was it married with children or the Simpsons and it's like the The Father husband was always the the idiot.

Yeah. Yeah, and you know the the whole role was. You know, he just went to work came home sat on the couch put his hands down his pants and drank beer. Yeah, and you know, that's unfortunately. Because of I don't know if it's because we we watched that is kind of growing up.

We kind of Society started going that way too. Like you see that's what men think that they got, you know, I put in my you know, eight eight hours of work today I'm done. I'm gonna go sit down in front of the television watch six seven hours of television yeah, and then go to bed and do the same thing tomorrow and in the meantime the you know, the Wife and children suffering.

Yeah.

Well think about so I'm gonna play hardball. When I when I first became a Christian and joined the church for people watching. That's what Christians do and become you become accountable. You don't watch.

Some of the greatest sermons you can watch in your life will be on YouTube sitting around reading your Bible watch YouTube sermons. It's not constitute being part of the church. Especially if you have an option to join fellow believers that parts are with.

I'm just saying it'd be done with it. I Were the primary movers in the church. There were the people who done majority of the work whenever we. I would go to a to a function I'll get there to help set up because I just assumed.

They'll need to be helped to be set up and and me. Maybe two other guys and then the rest would be women you go to the nursery in the Sunday school classes. They were always filled with the women who were teaching the children who were changing the diapers they they were bearing an awful lot of responsibility inside of a church that was void of a man's presence and and that just shouldn't be you know, and I've been pretty clear inside my denomination about more how I feel the.

The role of women and men and the church is clearly laid out in Scripture and we don't not deviate from that. But it's also difficult for me to stand there without any kind of Reservations and say things.

When I know that inside my own denomination at times. The majority of the things that women are in roles doing is because I wasn't a man that would do it. Yeah, and and shame on the men for letting that happen.

Yeah, right and I have a hard time finding fault with a woman who says this needs to be done and nobody will do it. So I'll do it. Yeah, and and I'm not gonna blame her for being faithful, right? I mean that that sounds again.

It's like I'm being angry and maybe I am being a little angry about that because. In my in my church now the men have a much more active presence in the church. There's men at every function at every event and I'm so thankful because I came out of a church where that wasn't the case.

But if you're watching. You know Ironman you can do better because I see you at a lot of things that you don't go to that. You don't make you know, you you make it to other events that you don't make.

I Football's okay softballs. Okay.

That's not our priority. Yeah, I can probably encourage a little bit on that. I see the younger generation of men actually. Wanting to step up and lead. Yeah, I see that like in our church. We have 25 26 year old men that they they're like, they're all I wanted.

I wanted to leave my family you know, I want to leave I want to serve and they're they're the ones and it's funny because sometimes like I don't even had to say anything like. They just step up and start doing it and that's that's that's really what you know.

That's what a leader is. You're not made a leader you you just lead and then therefore you are a leader and that's what a lot of the I See it a lot in the younger generation coming up. So now there's me some.

And it might be because what the the younger gentleman I was talking to this morning. I think he's 26. And he said, you know the when everything's going woke now to rebel is to be conservative.

I never thought about that. Yeah, right. Yeah.

He said it's funny because you know. The younger the younger generation always is always going to rebel against culture and if the culture is going woke. They're the rebellion is being conservative. Well, I mean that's a good question is Is it just?

Part of a rebellious nature because I mean that is true. That's very true because society I mean that's that's the natural path is to is to go woke to follow society follow the crowd. It's to go woke to be on the liberal side of things.

So is it just. Because my first first response to you, of course, and it's true, you know, there's young men in your church Jeremy. You're talking about there's they're stepping up and that's definitely if they're.

If they're doing that In a God honoring way motivations there, you know all the. All the ducks in the row. Boxes are checked. This is where the Holy Spirit. Yeah. But how do you how do you distinguish between this is just natural rebellion because it's its counter society versus Or the Holy Spirit because like you said because the conservative.

The conservative way is going to be the rebellious way. Yeah. Well, I can actually I think it's kind of easy to answer that in a sense as believers is. Look at like Say Joe Rogan Jordan Peterson Matt Walsh.

Like how many young men are following those guys and it's because they're Conservative because they're pushing against this wokeness. Ben Shapiro. Yeah, and that doesn't mean that they're believers though.

That's right. So just because and this is one of the things, you know, I'm not gonna mention his name, but there's a certain pastor that he's kind of been. I've been through a lot of stuff and they had a podcast about him and all the stuff he went through but now people were.

I've seen some people sharing his stuff because he's preaching against wokeness and I'm like that still doesn't Qualify the man as a pastor because he's preaching against wokeness like, you know, Joe Rogan preaches against wokeness.

He's a rabid unbeliever. Yeah Yeah.

So we I mean just because a Preaches against wokeness and he's standing behind a pulpit with a Bible and that does not make him a qualified Pastor. The same thing we could say with the men and women in our church is that come to our church just because they're against Something that does not mean that they're for Christ.

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That's good wisdom. Yeah, first Corinthians 12 and 2.

First Corinthians 12 and 2.

The Holy Spirit, Confession of Christ, and the Difference Between Conviction and Mere Rebellion

So the Holy Spirit go ahead, I'm sorry, you know says you.

You know that you're pagans. You were led astray by mute idols. However, you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speak it. Speaking by the Spirit of God says Jesus is accursed and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

So a life that is obviously in alignment with Christ being the head and the Lord of your life can only be accomplished by work of the Holy Spirit as you were saying a minute ago brother Robert. And We know talks cheap, right?

So.

Fruit bear that out. Yeah. Well that distinction that you're talking about is made in this In this network in this labor's podcast that we're doing. I mean weird. I mean we can We could partner with some of these guys because we have some some commonality, I mean they're they're gonna be against wokeness.

They're gonna be against abortion. They're gonna be against a Lot of these these liberal movements that are they're having now. And and we would have agreement To be against those things but the reasoning why we're against those things and then Who we're looking to for our objective standard is going to be different.

So so that's why we We're not going to lock arms in in this network or on this podcast with just somebody who's just Conservative going against the grain of society. We're going to lock arms with somebody who's going to honor and glorify Christ.

Yeah, the proclamation of the gospel is what we need like that's what we need when we go, you know, and it's a part of the thing that with You know To go back to the abortion thing. There's a bunch of abortion ministries out there and when we're gonna be up in Wilmington on Saturday the last time we were up there There was also Roman Catholics out there.

So but we're not locking arms with them in ministry. We have a different gospel like they just happen to be there I'm not going to go over and say, you know Come together with these guys and even though we're against abortion, which they should be which I mean, I think it's every Every person should be a human being should be.

Yeah. That doesn't mean I'm a lock arms in ministry with them, right? Because for me, it's not even obviously we want to Have abortion abolished, but it's not even just that for me. Like I want to see people saved.

That's right. Not just from Being killed in the womb. I want their soul saved. Yeah, and that's that's So the end is never from for me the end of that ministry is never just just simply that they don't kill their baby.

I don't want them to do that. They shouldn't do that. But I want to see that baby saved and that woman saved and that that man that is there saved.

I so appreciate you saying that because We're as Christians obviously we're for We're for life. Not just for the unborn's life, but life right eternal life. The things that in a lot of ways the not only so the obvious the abortion the murdering of this unborn child is an assault on that on that individual.

I Mean, it's it's an absolute assault in which that individual's life is snuffed out. But it is still an attack on that mother. Yeah, I don't care what they say the the statistics bear it out. Anybody who's ever spoken to anyone who has committed an abortion will tell you that it they're they're.

They're never allowed to be the same. They're changed forever negatively. These women are never you they're the things done Against that child are criminal. The things done against that woman are critical.

And the man has no say in the matter. Which is criminal? It is a trifecta of evil and it it breaks my heart.

I'm gonna go back to Go back to the original question that you posed to us John I think I started us on a rabbit trail and we took off with it. That's good. So let me go back to the original question that you posed to us, which was how how would you and and Sticking with our theme and single scripture speaking to that person With truth, but in love that says, you know, this is a woman's body And she's she's having to carry this child.

So how how should you as a man, but then ultimately it's gonna It's gonna be for anybody how would you as a Christian Address, how would I address that? Yeah, how would you address this? So for my out from my perspective You know The person asked this question or the woman carrying the child that you're addressing answering asking this question Is believing the lie that that Satan was taken to Eve in the garden, you know God really say you're they're questioning God's Word, you know.

We come at them with God's Word and and they're gonna say who cares who cares what God's Word says who cares about his authority? You know, I'm just concerned with with I'm the authority in my life, you know, they're there They're blinded by the lie of Satan that that he started in the garden garden with Eden however, I Still believe that as Christians That's where we should start is is because that's where our authority and our Objective authority comes from is is his word even though they deny it.