Christian Pastor Shares the Gospel with a Mormon

To do there on a Thursday evening.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Oh.

Baptism by Proxy and Mormon Background

Baptism baptism by proxy. Yeah. Okay, and What is this something you've been in your whole life or.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, and was there ever a time where you would say, you know It became more real to you or like, you know, it's just part of your culture or how would you? Yeah, oh wow, where'd you go. Argentina.

Wow.

Yeah, that's that's an incredible story of just what you've been through and.

So.

The Gospel According to LDS Teaching

What is the what is the gospel to you then? Like, you know, you went to Argentina. Yeah, I'm sure you tell people about Jesus even here in Utah. What what is the gospel?

To me the gospel is, you know starts with faith. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe that he came and that he performed the atonement for us so that we can be saved. And part of that atonement is that we can repent.

And I believe in baptism and making other promises with God.

And yeah.

That we can be blessed with the Holy Ghost and and all these things that are just sort of you know part of the gospel of Jesus Christ that he taught and the commandments and all those things. Yeah, the gospel is just sort of.

Ephesians 2 and Salvation by Grace Through Faith

Yeah, yeah, would it would I be able to look at Ephesians 2 with you real quick, yeah, all right, this is a New American Standard Bible, it's an English translation a little more modern made in 1995. But uh, you know very similar with the King James Version you might be used to in that King James Translates from the Greek word for word versus message to message.

This is more word for word from the Greek New Testament. So.

So I.

Asked you about the gospel and you know, that means good news, right? Good news. So then if there's good news then there's something that Required there to be something good that came into history that stepped into this creation.

Something that was bad for us and that's how Ephesians 2 starts out. It says and you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you formally walked according to the course of this world. According to the Prince of the power of the air of the spirit.

Now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them too. We all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh. Indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind and whereby we're by nature children of wrath even as the rest so by nature.

When Adam fell in the Garden of Eden It says that by that one man all all fell. All fell at that day the curse of the fall affected all of us affected the land. Disease death decay was brought into the world.

And so it says here that we Before Christ were dead in our trespasses and sin. And we were by nature children of wrath, which is often different than what you know people. Tell us today like I don't you might talk to someone who's LDS or you might talk to even someone who's Even like someone who believes in new age beliefs and they'll say and we're all God's children.

Stuff like that. So What we really see though in the Bible is That we were all children of Adam. We were all made from him. Yes. God made us in his image and likeness but after that fall we were by nature children of wrath and so that's the bad news is that We were children of wrath and what that means is where does wrath come from.

Wrath comes from God? That's what says in the Old Testament the New Testament that God has a holy character a good character and That he's a that he's just and so because he's so perfectly holy and just by his very nature.

He must punish sinners. And and so that's that's part of the even though that's good. And that's God's character. That's part of the bad news for us is like oh my goodness. Because we've sinned and we're by nature children of wrath we deserve God's justice.

We deserve his wrath because he's perfect and holy and we're not and then that's where the gospel comes in. But God being rich in mercy because of his great love with which he loved us even when we were dead in our transgressions made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved and Raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Excuse me that so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of his grace and kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you've been saved through faith and that not of yourselves.

It is a gift of God not a result of work so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand. So that we would walk in them so. One thing and you probably have heard this verse come up, right?

Yeah, you've heard this section. So if we were dead and We couldn't do anything to remedy our situation. We were dead in our trespasses and sin and we were only made alive. Once he saved us because he it says that God came to us when we were dead In our transgressions and so he came to us when we were dead and he initiated that grace.

And so it says here that it's through faith not of yourselves. It is the gift of God not a result of works because if it was then we could boast so I've just talked a whole lot. But I guess when I look at LDS doctrine when I look at like Moroni chapter 10 with The that if then statement if you Deny yourself of all in godliness, then God's grace is sufficient for you.

If you do this, then his grace comes but what we see here is actually his grace comes then the good works follow. So I'm just concerned that there's an order of operation. Change there. Does that make sense?

Celestial Glory, Temple Endowments, and LDS Authorities

Okay.

Do you.

So.

Could someone get to the celestial? Level with God in God's presence if they're not baptized in the Mormon Church. They can. Okay. And if they don't get temple endowments they can go to the celestial level.

Be with God. Is that. Is that something you think that like previous prophets and apostles would agree with.

Because.

Like Heber C. Kimball you ever read the miracle of forgiveness. Yeah, yeah, okay, I wish I had my copy. He says that trying is not enough I'm paraphrasing. He says that grace isn't sufficient that we have to.

Be.

Be near perfect to be saved to make it to that level with God. And that's not unlike things that even Brigham Young or Joseph Smith. It said I wish I had my different clothes from then. Yeah.

So.

Moroni, Baptism, and the Order of Salvation

Yeah, what do you actually. Let's see that maybe. Maybe there's some stuff in here, too. I Mean, there's that Moroni. Repent all ye ends of the earth and come unto me and be baptized in my name and have faith in me that you may be saved.

So.

Moroni Says here that these things have to be done for you to be saved, right? Come unto Christ be perfected in him deny yourself of all ungodliness. And if ye shall deny yourself of all ungodliness and love God while your might mind and strength then is his grace sufficient for you.

After they had been received unto baptism and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost They were numbered among the people of the Church of Christ. It was after those things but again we see in the Bible that Salvation regeneration a change of heart Miraculously comes upon dead people as Ephesians 2 says then We're gonna want to get baptized then we're gonna want to do those good works.

So, what would you how would you reconcile these verses in Moroni then? Okay, sure sure. Do you okay well my numbers on the back here you can text me or my email this goes directly to me. Wade what was your name?

Grace? There you go. Yeah, thanks for listening to me. Yeah, have a good evening.