Dead Men Walking Podcast: Doreen Virtue

Dead Men Walking

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00:14

Welcome back to another episode of dead men walking. I'm your host Greg and this is our fearless co -host

00:22

Hey guys, what's going on? It's Jason. I thought you're gonna say your name there. No. No, I'm not. No, I'm fearless after 57 episodes

00:30

You're like you want to what they better know my name. I don't know. No, no, nothing like that. But yeah, how you doing, brother?

00:35

How's it going? Oh doing good. We got a new year here Yeah, and we took a little break there at the beginning too

00:41

And I think it's been a couple weeks since we've been in the studio. Yeah, it feels like This is you man.

00:47

This is yeah. Yeah, I think we need to get back at it here We need to get back to work. There's a lot going on in this world.

00:53

Oh so much Yeah, man, and I and I was actually gonna become a vegan in 2021 really?

00:59

Yeah, I'm just so full of bologna Oh You're gonna make me hit it that early

01:07

Drop in there for the dad joke, right? I can't help myself You know, I got an 11 month old actually

01:12

Emsley's turning one. Oh my god next week. Oh, look at you She was born during the kovat.

01:19

Well just before the coast the kovat. Yes, but yeah Yep. Yeah, so she's gonna be walking getting into everything man.

01:25

I can't wait Loving it opening cupboards. Love my baby. Yeah, cool So, uh, yeah, normally we talk a little bit more

01:33

But when we have special guests on like this We like to get to them and I know we're gonna get into the news here We had a lot of feedback on the newsy news, by the way.

01:40

Yeah, that was Not only the intro song. I just love that. It's called newsy news every time

01:47

And I like just giggle we We did we didn't think we were gonna go that route

01:52

Newsy news, but we have with us today You know just someone who

01:58

I when you go to YouTube There's certain people on there where you go. Thank God for the Internet I mean right now with all the tech censorship and the garbage that's on the

02:06

Internet There's certain people even like the Stephen bank cars we had on Thus Stephen. I said the preposition.

02:14

He'll like that cars This this one's just a special because I know you turn me on to her videos.

02:20

No, and I've been watching them now They're like, they're so interesting And then of course she has all kinds of other things

02:26

But and I'm gonna let her do a little bit of the intro. Yeah, but we have Doreen virtue. How are you

02:31

Doreen? So during tell tell us a little bit about yourself introduce yourself to the listeners

02:43

We're gonna get into some questions that have to do with new age and in some other in Christology and some other things in the church

02:50

But for the listeners that don't know who you are I'm sure most of them do but for those that don't give us a little

02:55

Introduction of your background in what you're all about and what you do on your YouTube channel Well, I'm a wretched sinner

03:03

Seriously, I mean I'm just like I know the Paul's the best at the biggest Center But I'm probably close second and by the grace of mercy of God.

03:12

He saved me. Amen It was it was a slope. It was a slow process when I look back I can see him calling me over the years and I went the other way

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Anyway, so I was by the by the time he saved me it was really interesting.

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I mean God's timing is perfect, right? Yeah, I was at the pinnacle of my career I was at the peak of my career as the top -selling new age author in the world

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Wow of the at the top -selling new age Publishing house and I was traveling around the world

03:45

Being treated like a rock star didn't think I was doing anything wrong. I still I thought I was a Christian You know,

03:52

I mean I would talk about Jesus I would quote the Bible but I was like with these false prophets you see at the false churches and I was teaching heresy and I didn't know it and If I had died before I was saved

04:05

I would have gone straight to hell. And so I spend all my time Telling people what

04:11

New Agers think like because I see New Age creeping into the church and People in the church don't even know that they're doing

04:17

New Age. So I'm like a translator Yeah Wow, and that's mainly what you deal with on YouTube and we're going to and also speaking publicly and podcasts and all those things

04:28

We're gonna get into that. Let's get to some news really quick We'll get that out of the way and then we're gonna jump in with Doreen and we're gonna get to some really

04:34

Great questions that I think she's gonna have some insightful information on But first I think

04:41

Jason you have a few things for us, right? Hey, okay. We got the newsy news. Let's get into it Here we go.

04:46

All right News, the news, the newsy newsy news, the news, the news, the newsy newsy news news

04:55

We got some news! We talk about such deep intellectual things on this

05:01

I know, that's our news intro. That is so great. That's what we're known for baby.

05:07

Go ahead. What do you got on the docket? What's the first news story we have? Let's start with a little bit of fun. All right, so So, I guess in Oklahoma, there is the, what was it?

05:22

The governor? State representative, I think you're right. State representative is introducing a bill that would establish a hunting season.

05:28

Okay, I'm with you so far. I'm a hunter. For Bigfoot. Oh, no way. You could go hunting for Bigfoot.

05:35

Out there in the great state of Oklahoma. So we're closing down businesses in Michigan.

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We're putting on masks. We're sheltering in place. Oklahoma's out there making hunting permits for Bigfoot. Trying to make.

05:46

Is that what you're telling me? Exactly. Oh my goodness. And we'll just leave that one there. All right. Now we can get into a little bit of politics.

05:53

I don't know if you guys have noticed or not, but we do have a new president of the

05:59

United States. Was there an election? There was an election. We won't talk about it, but he has started to do many different new orders.

06:11

The infamous executive orders. Yes. So he's rejoined the Paris Climate Accord. Okay. He's revoked the

06:20

Keystone XL Pipeline. Right. He's ending Trump's ban on travel from seven

06:27

Middle Eastern countries. Okay. And a repeal of the border wall. Wow.

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And I'm pretty sure he's on his way to making abortion the law of the land. Well, I do know that he signed the

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Mexico City Executive Order, which allows us to fund abortions in other countries as well.

06:47

Wow. Trump had rescinded that. So, I mean, he's making due on his promises.

06:52

He's doing exactly what he said he was gonna do. Which, and then it was very funny. I saw a tweet by a major union in early

07:00

November, and they said, hey, we pushed on November 7th or something right after the election. And it says, we pushed

07:06

Biden across the finish line and Harris, and yeah, it's gonna be awesome. And today they're tweeting like, hey, we're gonna lose 50 ,000 jobs on this

07:14

Keystone. They're all union members. What are you doing? And it's like, wow. It's unbelievable to watch this. I mean, I was a part of the union for a long time at Ford, and here we are.

07:25

I'm wondering how that's gonna affect the automobile industry, but anyway. Well, the nice thing is is that executive orders are only over the executive branch.

07:33

They can do some things, but they're actually pretty limited in power. Hopefully, Congress will get their butts in gear and at least try to stand up against some of these things, but you get exactly who you vote for.

07:46

Yeah, you do. I mean, that's. And that's probably who we deserve at this point in America.

07:51

The best part, though, is Christ is still king. He is. He still is on his throne. Yes, sir. So what's that last one?

07:58

Last one, here we go. The Methodist Church. Ooh, I heard about this. Is now splitting because of LGBTQ.

08:07

Because of the issues, right? Issues. Letting them marry and be clergy and things like that. Yes. Correct? Yes. And I say letting them be married.

08:15

It's truly not a marriage if it's between the same sex. We know what God -defined marriage is, and that's the third largest denomination,

08:24

I think. There's like six and a half million, seven million people in the United Methodist Church, right? Exactly.

08:29

That's the third largest denomination of Protestant denomination splitting over LGBTQ issues.

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That's something that Dr. Michael Brown was talking about when he was on a few weeks ago. He was, yeah. He's going, look it, if you think this isn't going to affect the church, it absolutely is.

08:45

How about you, Doreen? Have you seen issues like that affecting the church? I mean, that's a huge denomination, and I know we've probably been watching this both, you know, for the last few months they've been talking about it.

08:56

But I mean, that's just insane, isn't it? Well, I mean, it's just, you know, the survey after survey shows that people just don't read the

09:04

Bible. Before I was saved, I was as liberal as you come. I mean, I was really into Bernie Sanders, and I was beyond left.

09:15

I was beyond Democrat left. I was always pro -life. I mean, thank you,

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Lord, I never had an abortion or was pro -abortion, but I was, you know, completely liberal.

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And what made me a conservative was reading the Bible. So I really think that, you know, instead of telling people this left is bad or, you know, any of those kinds of things,

09:38

I think we just got to encourage people to study the word. Right. Yeah. Yeah, amen. I think having a biblical worldview is going to change a lot of the issues in our country, not necessarily one politician or political party.

09:50

I agree with you, absolutely. All right, so is that the news? That's the Newsy News. All right, there you go.

09:56

The Newsy Newsy News, the News, the News, the Newsy Newsy News, News.

10:03

We got some news. If you guys could only have heard all of the songs and all of the ideas that we came up for that.

10:10

And that's the best we could do. Oh my gosh. Sorry, Doreen, that's the best we could do. We have such a classy guest on here.

10:16

I know, right? She's subject to our buffoonery. I know, sorry. No, I think that'd be a good ringtone.

10:22

Yeah, right, right. There we go, okay, there we go. Maybe we can make $72 in retire on Apple ringtones.

10:29

I like it. All right, so let's dig in here, okay? We've already wasted enough time because we've got Doreen on here.

10:35

And can I throw out the first question? Absolutely. So we know you came out of, like you said, new age, best -selling author, the whole thing.

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I mean, you were kind of it for a while in that realm. And then the Lord, it sounds like, radically saved you, right?

10:50

I think I saw something online saying you were even listening to an Alistair Begg sermon at one point.

10:55

Yeah, exactly. Go ahead. Yeah, that's because I always thought

11:01

I was a Christian, but I had this, I thought that all paths led to God.

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You know, I had the whole universalism belief. And so I would listen to a sermon from a

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Buddhist monk, and then a Hindu, and then a Christian. And I would just say, oh, you know, they're all saying the same thing to the same

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God. I didn't know, because again, I hadn't studied the Bible. So I would listen to Christian radio all the time.

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When Chuck Smith was alive, I was listening to Calvary Chapel radio daily.

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I would call in. You know, so that's why I can see, when I look back, the Lord in my life, all those years, sharing the gospel with me.

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But as Paul talks about in his letters, you're blind, you're spiritually blind to the gospel.

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It's foolishness to those who are perishing. And that was me. I didn't think that Jesus really died on the cross.

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I didn't even know who Jesus was. In the New Age, they say he's a mortal man, a created being, who was a really good role model for us all.

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And that after he died, he's in the sky. They call him an ascended master, and he's helping us from the sky.

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You know, so it's really a very immature view of Jesus.

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And I always thought he was my spirit guide, you know, my wish granter. So I was very word of faith.

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When I look at the New Apostolic Reformation churches, NAR, I can see myself in those false prophets.

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I'm so glad you brought that up, because that's kind of the first place I was going was, so if I have a listener right now, or listeners that are listening, and you know, we talk about this often.

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In 2004 or five, when I bought Bill Johnson's book, When Heaven Invades Earth, and I said the sinner's prayer at seven,

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I was saved at 24, which I've said that a million times on here, and I went, I'm gonna dig into the

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Bible, and I'm not gonna look to men to teach me. I wanna see what the Bible says. And I started reading through that book, even back then as a mid -20s year old guy,

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I went, this doesn't seem right. He's got stuff in here about Christ emptying himself of divinity, and not really being

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God, but being man, and all these things. And that's what brought kind of NAR and Bethel to my attention.

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I say Bethel because they're probably the most popular out of the new apostolic reformation movement. Someone who's been, who was in that, and steeped in that, like yourself, in kind of the

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New Age movement, what kind of, you know, to someone listening who goes, what man, they're Christians, they just, you know, they just worship in a little different way, or they have some different things they do in their services.

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What are some things about NAR that you see that relate to New Age, or that are unbiblical, that you could maybe provide for our listeners?

13:43

Well, absolutely. You mentioned Philippians 2, where Paul's talking about Jesus emptying himself.

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And what Paul's talking about in context is Jesus humbling himself by coming to earth. He's God, and he comes to earth, you know, the second person of the

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Holy Trinity, and he's fully God, fully man. He's here on earth, he's a humble servant, he's washing his disciples' feet.

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You know, he's doing things that you don't think of God, the creator of the universe doing. And so, but Bill Johnson, in his book,

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When Heaven Meets Earth, and we've got a copy if someone wants to have this validated, wrote that Jesus emptied himself of his divinity, so that he was

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God, but when he came to earth, he was only man. And that's called the kenosis heresy.

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It's a very old heresy. It goes back to Athanasius, and some of the early ecumenical councils were fighting it.

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So that belief, and that was what I was raised with, by the way, I was raised Christian scientist, that Jesus was just a man.

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And I don't know how anyone reading the Bible could even think that. You know, how could just a man raise

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Jairus' daughter or Lazarus after four days of death? I mean, how could he feed 5 ,000?

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There's just no way that an immortal man could do that. But in the New Age and in the NAR, they point to out -of -context verses, such as greater things than these, you will also be able to do.

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And of course, in context, Jesus meant that you would be able to disciple more people.

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And we can now, with podcasts like yours, we can reach people worldwide. But in the twisted version of that verse, they believe that we are able to do things like raise people from the dead.

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And of course, Bethel has their actual team of raising people from the dead. They say they've raised hundreds of people, can't find any paperwork on it, you know?

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And they had that tragedy last year with the little girl, Olive, where they refused to acknowledge that she had died.

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And that was just super sad. And actually, as a parent myself, I can understand where you wouldn't want to come to grips with that reality.

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But the thing is that Christian science that I was raised in, New Age that I was steeped in, and NAR, they all deny who

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Jesus really is. Their Christology is not orthodox, so therefore it's a heresy.

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Yeah, and you know, because there's been things where, you know, I talk to friends and I go, look, there's things that just really border on almost outright

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New Ageism. I mean, they have Christian tarot card readings now in some of the Bethel sessions. They're doing grave soaking.

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You know, even when you get into fire tunnels and things like this that are really rooted in Eastern mysticism, you know, a red flag goes up for me, but unfortunately,

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I see a whole generation in different non -denominational churches and Charismatic and Pentecostal churches that are just kind of eating this up because it seems to be, you know,

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I say new, but you know, even the last decade, it seems to be the new kind of hip kind of Christianity.

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They really did that a lot through their worship music. Hillsong has done the same thing, kind of pushed their theology and doctrine through a worship band.

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But I mean, even like the grave soaking and the tarot card reading, I mean, wouldn't you agree that that's rooted in some type of New Age kind of theology, right?

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Yeah, well, there's a group from Australia that is loosely connected through Ben Fitzgerald, who kind of now is on staff in Europe with Bethel Reading.

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He used to be in their American branch. But his mother, Jen Hodges, has

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Christ alignment cards. And she says they're not tarot. And actually, to be accurate, they're not tarot, but they're divination, they're oracle cards, just like I was using.

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And she takes them into kind of mind, body, spirit festivals and she says she's using them to witness for Jesus.

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And she uses graduate students from Bethel Supernatural Ministry School, which is this kind of sham school that says for thousands of dollars in tuition, they'll teach you how to be a prophet, a certified prophet.

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Doesn't work that way. And so what they'll do with these cards is they are leading people, they say, to a

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Jesus encounter. And that's what's super dangerous because they meet the false

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Jesus. In those card readings, they're not allowed to use the name of Jesus.

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They're not allowed to use the name of God. They never are allowed to talk about repentance or sin because they don't wanna scare off people.

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But look, as you mentioned, I heard Alistair Begg's sermon in January, 2015, where he told us that I was sinning.

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I mean, he was talking about 2 Timothy 4, where at the end times, there'll be false teachers who will tickle the itching ears of people who wanna just hear lies.

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And as Alistair described the false prophets, it pierced me. And I said, that's me.

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I do that. And it's really, and then I was listening on the car radio.

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I came home and I told my husband, I wanna go to church, not a new age church like we had been going to, unity and all that, but I wanted to go to a regular church.

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And so we started going to church and from church is when I started reading the whole Bible. And when

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I got to Deuteronomy 18, 10 through 12, there's this whole list of things that I was doing in the new age, fortune telling, divination, interpreting signs and omens, mediumship.

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And it says that God considers people who do these things detestable abominations.

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And it just floored me, you guys, because here's kind of insight into false teachers.

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I believed back then that I was doing God's work. And if you would interview false teachers, which

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I don't recommend, but if you did, they would also tell you they're doing God's work. They're convinced of it because people will say, oh, what you're doing is so comforting.

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These seeker friendly churches, they say, oh, you're a wonderful person and God loves you just the way you are.

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And then the whole congregation doesn't know that they are unsaved. Maybe they're not all unsaved, but they might not know they're unsaved.

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They might not know that they're acting in ungodly ways. I didn't, I was told that you could do whatever you wanted to do as long as you were positive and happy.

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And so I was doing whatever I wanted to do. I was, like I said, a wretched sinner. I was doing, just living a hedonistic lifestyle and reading the

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Bible was my big wake up call. It's not in just the Old Testament. Some people say, well, that's the Old Covenant.

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No, you look in Acts 16, 16, Acts 19, 19, throughout

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Paul's letters, Revelation, the book of Jude, it's all in there. The things

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I was doing in the new age. And I'm here to give people a wake up call for those who have ears to hear.

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The new age is the path to hell. And so is any of the new age, like so -called

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Christian teachings, like contemplative prayer. You know, this whole thing about Lectio Divina, contemplative prayer, where you just empty your mind.

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That's Eastern meditation. That is not the meditation that the Bible talks about. When we look at Joshua 1 or Psalm 1, where in Hebrew it says haggah, meditate, it specifically says meditate on the word.

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And haggah itself means to utter or mutter. So it really means in the Bible to say the

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Bible out loud, speak it out loud, mutter or utter it. In the Eastern meditation, you're told to empty your mind.

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Maybe you're supposed to focus on your heart rate or your breath, or you're supposed to have a guided meditation where you have this lovely scenario told to you.

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But you aren't meditating on scripture in contemplative prayer,

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Lectio Divina, or this mysticism that really comes from the ancient

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Catholicism branches. What you're doing is you're really making yourself a target for Satan, who masquerades as an angel of light.

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And that's what happened to me. And I hear so many things that I was involved with as well from your story.

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I mean, I was getting into astrology. I mean, I thought that I was, you know, it was fine.

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I was a Christian, but I could look into these different practices that would help me with my future, you know, or believe so much in something like the secret.

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I know I brought that up before on this podcast, but I truly, I dipped into that, and I thought that I could attract things to myself.

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And the divination that you were just talking about from Deuteronomy 18, if you guys wouldn't mind if I read that real quick.

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Deuteronomy 18, nine. When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations.

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There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the

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Lord. And because of these abominations, the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the

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Lord your God for these nations, which you are about to dispossess. Listen to fortune tellers and to diviners.

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But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this. And I mean,

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I also experienced a moment where I was witnessing to a friend, oh, actually, I thought that we were on the same page for about 10 minutes.

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He was like, oh, yeah, you know, talking about church, talking about worship. And all of a sudden, he said it.

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He was just like, yeah, but there's so many ways to God. And I said, no, there's not, you know.

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John 14, six, you know, right here. Wanted to read that as well. I'm the way, the truth, and the life.

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No one comes with the Father except through me. You know, I mean, it's very exclusive. And I mean, it's just things that are getting twisted in our world these days that unfortunately people are believing.

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I mean, the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel. I mean, like, you know, it's just a sad one because people, what they get attracted to is the gold, the silver, you know.

24:51

Silver and gold I do not have, you know. And it's like, I mean, here we are.

24:57

We wanna follow Christ. We should deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily and come to Christ, you know, and I mean, follow him.

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It doesn't say, hey, you're gonna have this huge house. Hey, you're gonna have this awesome car. If you pray hard enough, if you believe enough, you know, you're gonna have all these things.

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It's like, man, that puts a lot of weight on a person that's dead inside, you know.

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And if these things don't come true, you know, if they don't happen, then it's God's fault. And then, or the person gets, you know, depressed and they feel unwanted or whatever it is.

25:32

But yeah, I mean, I wasn't sure if you wanted to just speak on some of the prosperity gospel stuff.

25:39

Yeah, because I heard her mention that a little bit. Is that intertwined at all with, like, the New Age movement and the prosperity gospel? Can you speak to that?

25:45

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Jason, you mentioned the secret and that was a bestseller,

25:50

Celestine Prophecy before then. And there's so -called Christian word of faith prosperity teachers that are very popular.

26:02

And they're popular just, again, because of Second Timothy four, they're itching people's ears. People who are desperate, they wanna hear that if they have enough faith, that there's this formula that they would be granted their wishes, not even prayers, but wishes to get their health back or their loved one's health back or get a promotion, or like you said, the house, the car, the soulmate, you name it, they want things.

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And it's that lack of contentment with that Jesus is sufficient. The Bible is sufficient.

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He gives us our needs, but not our wants, unless it's his will. And that was a big one for me, because I wanna tell you that I was kind of having an existential crisis before I was saved, because I really, from a worldly standpoint, seemed to have it all.

26:53

My husband and I were living in Hawaii. We had a big 50 acre ranch overlooking the ocean 3 ,000 feet up.

27:01

I had wonderful, I thought they were wonderful friends. Most of them are gone now. They don't wanna hear about Jesus.

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And health, health, I had enough money coming in. I was spending it as fast as I was making it, but I just seemed to have it all.

27:18

Successful career. And I was empty inside. I thought I was happy, but I was still seeking.

27:25

I could see that in myself. I was still looking for some secret. And the people who go for the secret, or the self -seeming prophecy, or law of attraction,

27:35

Joel Osteen, it's because they're not filled. And we need to nourish ourselves with,

27:42

Jesus says he will make us so we're never hungry or thirsty again. And we take our eyes off him and we're empty.

27:50

We can't take our eyes off him. John Piper has a great quote that says, why would

27:55

Christ promise you the one thing that can ruin your soul? When it comes to riches, and glory, and fame, and all those things that health and wealth.

28:03

Well, I'm not gonna talk about John Piper right now, Greg. No, I'm just kidding. Is he in the doghouse for you?

28:09

He might be in the doghouse for me right now. At the moment, I love him, he's a brother. I know I'm gonna see him in heaven.

28:14

There's no man or woman perfect. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. You set aside the stuff you don't like.

28:20

We'll talk to him about that. Let me just call up John and get him on the podcast. Something else

28:26

I was gonna ask you about, Doreen. I used, my wife used to have a orange crystal lamp in our home and at work.

28:41

And we had read that, and this was after I was regenerated. When we had this in the house,

28:49

I knew there was something going on. I knew something was wrong, but I started, she told me that she had found it.

28:56

I can't remember where she, it might have just been from Bath and Body Works or something, but it was supposed to help with allergies.

29:02

It was supposed to help with some other ailments or whatever, and anyway, so I was like, at one point

29:10

I just said, you know what? We're gonna get rid of this. We're gonna throw it away, and I mean,

29:16

I had been praying about it, and she started praying about it after I just started bringing it up all the time. I was just like, you know, there's just something about these crystals.

29:23

Is there anything that you could expound on about those crystals that a lot of people are starting to, yeah, like.

29:32

Within Christianity. Exactly. Like the use of crystals and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, it's just that temptation from the devil.

29:40

I actually wrote a book about crystals, and I did a video series about crystals when

29:45

I was in the New Age. I was all in. I had crystals on my nightstand, on my altar.

29:52

You know, I was wearing them constantly. I had a lot of crystal crosses I would wear because to me that was a symbol of blending

29:59

New Age with Christianity, because I kept trying to do that, and it doesn't. They're polar opposites.

30:05

You can't blend them, but it's kind of confusing to people because in the Bible there's crystals from Genesis to Revelation, and the ephods of the high priest in the

30:16

Exodus, and the Levite priest had the 12 crystals for the 12 tribes on their breastplate.

30:24

So people say, well, God made the crystals. Well, yeah, he did, but it's how they're used.

30:30

If they're used for idolatry, that's where we get into trouble. Romans one said we can't worship the creation instead of the creator, and that's what

30:40

I was doing. A lot of people doing that, and if you're really honest with yourself, you can see that idolatry.

30:46

Do you have crystals above the Lord? Do you have crystals as a place in your heart? That's idolatry, folks, and that's a sin all throughout the

30:55

Bible, Old and New Testament, by the way, because a lot of times people want to say, oh, that's just Old Testament. No, it's in the

31:01

New Testament, too. Old Testament matters, because the 10 commandments are still for today, and so the crystals, when

31:09

I talk to people about crystals, I say, if you look at them like you would a bouquet of flowers, and you really can have them in your house, and say, look at God's handiwork.

31:19

I mean, it's part of God's general revelation of himself is through nature. But if you're thinking crystals have some special power, get something out of your house.

31:31

They're an idol. Yeah. Right. No, it's one of my favorite Martin Luther quotes that says, you know, anything that your heart clings to in times of trouble, that is your true

31:40

God, and you can make anything an idol. We're just not picking on crystals or tarot cards.

31:46

I mean, I know a lot of people who make their profession, who make their spouse, who make their hobbies, they're idol and claim to be

31:53

Christian, so you can make anything your idol if it takes preeminence over Christ. Right.

31:59

Yeah, John Calvin said our heart is an idol factory. Yeah. It's part of our sinful nature. It's true.

32:04

Yeah. You know? One last thing about the crystal stuff. Have you heard of the amber teething necklaces for babies?

32:13

Yeah. Wait a minute now. Are those? I used one of those on my first one. I know, that's what I'm asking about.

32:18

She's 11 years old. She came out okay. Are those okay? That's just amber, isn't it?

32:24

For babies, yeah, yeah. It's not nothing that - I'm getting pediatric advice. I'm sorry. He's got a one year old, so we gotta cover everything,

32:32

Doreen. You know, if you talk to our friend, Stephen Bankart, he's got a little more extreme view of crystals than I do.

32:40

He's got get them all out of the house, no matter what. I look at it as an idol or not.

32:46

Right, okay. So you have to be honest with yourself and the Holy Spirit, and the

32:51

Holy Spirit will convict you if it's an idol. Yeah, I think Paul talks about that, right? The personal conviction of those things.

32:59

My wife wanted me to ask you that. That's why I threw it in there. Well, happy wife, happy life,

33:05

Jason. There you go, Mandy. Don't think that it has magical powers. Right, right, yeah, exactly.

33:10

What else you got for us, Jason? Yeah, I mean, I wrote, I'm always the guy that has like 25 questions.

33:18

You wanna, oh my. Well, what is your response? Because I've taken over quite a bit.

33:23

Yeah, so I'll ask this as we - Can we circle back to - Yeah, go ahead. Can we circle back to astrology?

33:29

Because you mentioned astrology. Definitely, definitely. I'm seeing a lot of people who are professing

33:35

Christian getting into horoscopes and astrology and arguing with me that it's in the

33:41

Bible, so therefore it's okay. And I just wanna say that the magi is where they're pointing.

33:48

They may or may not have been astrologers. It actually doesn't say that. Magi means magician. I mean, they definitely charted the stars.

33:55

They probably just looked at the old messianic prophecies, which talked about a star for the

34:02

Messiah. So it does not say in the Bible astrology is okay. In fact, it says the opposite.

34:07

When you look at Isaiah, it says that those who practice astrology will be burned as stubble in the eternal fire, scary.

34:16

And then when you look at the book of Daniel, that his astrologers could not interpret

34:25

Nebuchadnezzar's dream, so astrology's condemned in the Bible.

34:31

The other movement that I'm so concerned about is witchcraft. There's a big movement of Wicca and witchcraft where they're calling themselves

34:40

Christian witches, which is just - I heard this, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they are actually claiming that Jesus did witchcraft, so therefore it's okay, which is as blasphemous as it gets.

34:50

We have to pray for these guys. They're mostly women who, in my experience, when meeting them, have had bad experiences with their dads or men in general, and so they are rejecting any kind of patriarchal system, which is what they think

35:08

Christianity is, and they're going into goddesses, and they're seeing Jesus like he's a cartoon character.

35:14

So he's doing things, and they're saying, well, look, he's using sacred geometry symbols when he's drawing in the sand and doing things that the

35:25

Bible does not say. So it all goes back to biblical illiteracy. I think the best thing we can do for folks who are deceived is pray for them.

35:34

A lot of people were praying for me when I was deceived. They told me after I was saved, and thank you to everyone who prayed for me.

35:42

Second thing is help them read the Bible. Encourage them to get into, maybe they'll use like a dynamic equivalency translation to begin with, like the

35:52

NLP or NIV. Not the message, not the passion. No, no, no, message.

35:58

We blow our nose with those. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, you know, I had a father and a mother that said, that told me many times when

36:07

I was younger, anything that comes at you, measure it against the word. I mean, that was probably the best advice that they gave me.

36:13

Go to the word and use that as your dividing line. Shout out to James White there. Sorry, is that patented?

36:19

Is that copyrighted? I don't know. But use that as a dividing line. And I think one of the greatest PR moves that Satan has ever done, was he's been able to paint himself as the red horned, spiky tail, you know, guy that hides in the shadows, that's ugly.

36:34

I mean, Satan comes as an angel of light. He is one degree off of truth. He takes that truth and he twists it.

36:41

And I feel like too many Christians don't understand that when Satan presents something to you, it feels good, it looks good, and it seems right.

36:49

Charles Spurgeon said, true discernment is not knowing right from wrong, it's knowing right from almost right.

36:55

And Satan is so good at doing almost right. And I feel that new age movement is so almost right.

37:01

I have the same feeling with people who are a new age, the same way I kind of feel about Native Americans.

37:08

They're so close with that creator and everything working together and worshiping the one that's created all these things, but they're just off a little bit.

37:16

And when I talk to people who are steeped in new age, they're right there. I don't, you know,

37:22

I don't, they mean well. They want to do good, kind of like what you said. Yeah, a lot of people in the new age always are some of the nicest people

37:31

I have ever met in my life. Like, I wish Christians would at least have that attitude.

37:37

I'm sorry, yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, and we do have brothers and sisters that are super positive, great people, you know.

37:46

Right, 100%. But yeah. But I want to touch on that too, because you brought it up a few times, Doreen, that you were, you thought you were doing right.

37:53

I mean, you thought you were a good person. I'm serving a higher power. I'm helping people.

37:58

Goes back to the, you know, kind of the false prophets that you mentioned as well too. I think most of them are not malicious.

38:05

I think that's the minority. I think they think they're actually doing God's work. They have people that come up to them and go, oh yeah,

38:11

I feel better, and you helped me with this. And, you know, kind of echo chamber of, you know, keep, you know, supporting their doctrines and theology.

38:19

So I don't think a lot of them are malicious and I'm going to trick people, but they're just that one or two degrees off from what the actual word says.

38:27

And boy, when you get one degree off and then you do that for any length of time, you're way off base 20, 30, 40 years later as a leader.

38:38

Yeah, the book of Hebrews says that, you'll drift away if you don't cling to Jesus. So that one degree, if you're sailing a boat, can make you go completely off course.

38:48

So let me ask you this as we wrap this up. So listeners right now that maybe have dabbled in some of these things we've talked about, and we've covered a lot, like we said, grave soaking, tarot cards, astrology, crystals.

39:00

I mean, all these things that are kind of seeping their way in to the

39:05

Western American church. So we have a listener out there that's listening right now and they're going, well, I've dabbled in that.

39:10

What's the big deal, right? Like, you know, it's fun, or maybe we do a Ouija board once in a while, or whatever it is.

39:16

What is your advice to them that they think, no big deal, I got it under control, or I don't really see the big harm in it.

39:23

What's the overall message you would give them in a few minutes? Well, first of all, our

39:28

God is holy and he deserves our awe. And actually new agers don't like this word, but he deserves our fear, our holy fear.

39:38

Reverence, yeah. We don't wanna bring to him this strange fire, this strange incense of things that he's condemned.

39:49

That's an offense to God. And when we do that, it breaks our relationship with him. That's when you find you can't sense

39:57

God, your prayers don't seem to be heard or answered because you've broken the relationship. Nobody's perfect, nobody's a saint, you know, only

40:05

Jesus is sinless. But we wanna grow more Christ -like. We wanna pray every day,

40:10

Lord, reveal to me anything I've done that offends you and show me your way, purify me.

40:16

I'm sorry, you know, repent for your sins. We need to do that daily, maybe all throughout the day, because we all sin.

40:23

To do something consciously that is a known sin without repentance is called unrepentant sin.

40:30

And it can be a sign that you're not really saved. Once you're saved, you don't wanna sin anymore.

40:36

You still will, but you'll feel horrible about it. The Holy Spirit will convict you and you'll want to repent to get some relief from that conviction.

40:45

So these things, and I just wanna mention just kind of a quick list if I could. I've got more information on my website and my website's not monetized.

40:54

I'm not trying to make any money off of this. I just desperately wanna help people away from these sinful actions.

41:00

But Enneagram was made by an occultist through automatic writing, which is channeling spirits that are demons.

41:10

And if you don't believe me, go on my YouTube channel or go on my website. I've got proof. Yoga is not just stretching.

41:17

It's not just exercise. It is Hindu spirituality. You talk to anyone from India, they'll tell you it is not just innocent stretching.

41:25

It's been Americanized, but it's still based on each pose is acting out a scene from the

41:32

Vedas. It's worshiping pagan deities and even the sun salutations.

41:39

There's poses that are acting out that you're an actual demon, warrior three, for instance.

41:46

And so these things that are new age seem innocent. I was a former woke person and I would have argued to the end if someone told me this in the past.

41:56

So people may not understand this now, but for those who have ears to hear, be very careful and check it out.

42:04

As Greg said, compare everything to scripture. And we're not talking about being legalistic here.

42:10

We're talking about caring about God's holiness and his high standards for us all. That's awesome.

42:17

And can you throw out, we're gonna link this all up in the podcast and on the YouTube channel, but for those listening, can you throw out your website and anywhere that they can get in touch with you or see any of your content?

42:29

Yeah, absolutely. My website is doringvirtue .com and I've just got a whole list of blogs there.

42:36

I'm adding as much as I can. I'm in seminary full time. I'm in my second to last semester.

42:42

That's awesome. So pretty busy. I'm almost done with my master's in biblical and theological studies.

42:48

That's why I have all these commentaries because we write so many papers and the professors require commentaries as footnotes in bibliography for these papers.

42:59

So I've been in the word. I started seminary January, 2019. I've been in it full time since.

43:06

So my point is that I don't really have a lot of time to write people back like I used to in the beginning because it's just,

43:14

I'm not bragging. There's hundreds of letters coming in. So I have an auto reply on my Instagram, direct messages with links to helpful places for frequently asked questions.

43:24

And I hope that this video will help someone. I just pray that it's used for God's glory.

43:32

Amen. Well, here's the thing. When I go to YouTube and I had very specific questions about things, even a few years ago that a lot of Christians weren't talking about, your videos were the ones that were coming up.

43:43

So I just wanted to let you know that you might be thinking, ah, I'm stretched or why am I doing this?

43:48

Or I had this amazing, I say amazing, but in the world you had this amazing kind of new age thing going on where you're making money and traveling and speaking and all this, and then the

43:58

Lord saves you. And then it probably wasn't the best. You said you lost some friends and they went, we don't want to hear about the Jesus thing.

44:04

Let me tell you, you've not only ministered to me, but I've heard from people say, yeah, I watched this

44:09

YouTube video or I heard this lady speak and she was talking about this very specific thing that now seems to be like everyone is talking about.

44:17

So you were kind of before your time in this. I found you before Stephen Bancar's. There we go,

44:23

I like it. Yeah, I did. She was, yeah, yeah. So I just wanted to encourage you. I wanted to encourage you as well too that you've ministered to us and that what you're doing is extremely important to make sure you're, you know, like you said, measuring against the word.

44:38

It's not legalism, but it's like, you know, if you truly love someone, you're going to warn them if they're in some type of danger.

44:44

And we're all in some type of danger if we truly haven't surrendered to Christ, repented and believe.

44:50

Yep. Amen. Did you have anything to say? No, I was just going to say, thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for coming on,

44:56

Ms. Doreen. This has been a great pleasure and I'm sure a lot of people are going to be having a great time listening to it and learning from you.

45:05

And I just pray that everybody does go to her YouTube channels and - Website, yeah. Yeah, website and all of it.

45:11

She has books. I mean, I'm looking at Deceive No More right now. Yeah, that's a book

45:17

I wrote for Thomas Nelson and it's been updated because there was a part in the book that I had help from Justin Peters and Chris Rosebro to have a better understanding.

45:30

Awesome. Yeah. Justin will set you straight. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he will.

45:36

He's great. Well, Doreen, we're going to wrap up here. Thank you so much for coming on and listeners, like we said quite a few times, make sure you go out there, check out her

45:46

YouTube, check out the website. She's got some great information and it's stuff that really the Christian community is just now starting to talk about and she's been talking about it for quite a while.

45:56

She, you know, in the new age, she's kind of the votee on cultural Marxism. He's been talking about it for 15 years and now it's popular and it's like, this guy's been, you know,

46:05

John the Baptist out there in the desert, kind of like how Doreen has been. Hey, look it, we need to look at this stuff.

46:11

We need to make sure we're thinking clearly about it and make sure we're, you know, using the

46:17

Bible as our dividing line, as I said, and Doreen has done that so well. Guys, also for those of you who've been reaching out to us, sending us updates, giving us comments, commenting on the

46:27

Apple and Google and the Spotify channel, we really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. The only way we bring glory to God is when you guys tell friends, tell family about the podcast, they listen.

46:38

We try to do, you know, just two guys over here, you know, trying to bring glory to God.

46:44

And if we can do that through this podcast, we're more than happy to do that. So thanks for listening and make sure you're following the

46:50

Facebook page. Well, I was going to say parlor. I don't know if parlor's even up anymore. Yeah, I don't know if it's up anymore.

46:57

Doreen says, ugh. Unfortunate. But make sure you follow us on Facebook, Instagram, all those places,

47:03

YouTube, Dead Man Walking podcast. We really appreciate it. Jason, do you have anything before we're out? Later. All right,