John 6 Avoidance Example #4,698, and Deuteronomy 18 Fulfilled in Jesus Confirmed

And welcome to the dividing line just a little bit late. It's called a Bill Gates delay We reset the machine an hour ago, then we decided we set it right before the program again.

How many how many updates? Well, I know three restart recycles.

They're like 13. I think he's like 13 updates and three starts and stops and I Dived there you go.

That's it's Microsoft. What do you want? There you go. Anyways, we're here and It's good

We went almost two hours and I did not get to the second article that I had announced.

I was gonna be getting to so today I want to address the

John six article from latent flowers and Then I want to address some statements from Zakir Hussain for those of you into The study of Islam that will be

Relevant to you and if for some reason I am concise If for some reason

I am concise and quick and so on so forth then we'll open the phone lines and talk to you, but Chances of that or I know it's rich isn't even bothering to set things up because it's sort of like a concise quick, right?

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So that's that's good All right John chapter 6

I Love I love the title of Layton flowers article John 6 down from heaven why context kills

Calvinism Given how often we have demonstrated the a

Contextual nature of so much of non -reformed Argumentation and especially exegesis

Oh And go back I What what does this look like to you see see the you can't see it in the thing there that that that's a

Mac This is a Mac You're on my desk is a Mac But that guy if he switches the kit, well, he can't switch camera angle today that you cannot switch camera angle today

Ridge That guy across the window is a PC guy, he's still in the oh you

Mac guys are terrible Cult and yes, it says the cult. So don't look at me.

I don't need to repent. I've already seen the light Okay, it's it's Rich Pierre who needs to see the light and We'll go from there.

So don't don't don't tell me about that Why context kills Calvinism? I remember my hermeneutics professor saying at the beginning of every class

Text about context is a pretext for proof text Well, yes We've all heard that before context tells us the history the setting the audience and thus helps understand the intention of the author

The grammar can inform us of what interpretations are allowed, but the author's intent is best discovered in the overall context well, that's certainly true and that's why it's so beautiful to weave the contexts in John together and You see the the themes

Especially coming to the fore in John chapter 6 In 8 10 the shepherd and his sheep.

You're not of my sheep 17 the father has given people to the son and I want you to listen carefully folks because as Much as this is, you know, sometimes some of our listeners we've gone through so many

Failed attempts to get around John 6. I mean, it's a sort of a hobby of ours to Collect all these amazing explanations that people come up with Which generally involves creation of some context?

Outside of John chapter 6 which is imposed upon the text So the words can't have the meaning that they had obviously to the people who heard them when they were first uttered

We've done it so many times that you might be sort of your mind might be wandering or something. There is an important result of Latent flowers interpretation here because fundamentally what he's going to be saying is this is only about the

Apostles This is only about the days of Jesus. There was a

Temporary judicial hardening of the Jewish people at that time And if you follow the link at the bottom of this to his other article on John chapter 17

Have you been given to Christ by the Father? He identifies that as the disciples alone.

Now, of course the disciples were given by Christ the Father But the result of this interpretation folks is is that one of the most precious?

Grounding Encouraging truths of Biblical soteriology is taken away from you in the service of the almighty autonomous will of man.

That's what you have here Jesus taught all

That the Father gives him will come to him Once you create an artificial context that says yeah

I'm gonna get all the disciples and has nothing to do with after that then Throw the rest of John chapter 6 out all those other promises.

They're just about the disciples Place in heaven go to prayer place few as disciples

John chapter 3 God's love the world disciples now He may not go that far. But what consistent basis does he have to not go that far?

the cost of Attempting to turn the biblical narrative about the autonomous sovereign free

God and His creatures who are redeemed by him to his honor and glory into the story of God Creating autonomous creatures who then do all this stuff.

The cost is huge. The cost is massive And if you have ever found yourself

Rejoicing as I certainly have in the keeping power of God Rejoicing that The Sun has come down from heaven

Not to do his own will but the will of him was sent him and this is the willingness of that all that has been Given to him he lose none of it

But raise it up on the last day and that I'm one of those that has been given it is it is in his hand

He is the perfect Savior if you've ever rejoiced in that well,

I Guess you need to recognize the only way to rejoice in that consistently is to be a monarchist because once you're a synergist

Once it's a cooperative thing All bets are off Christ will do is Christ will do his part.

He'll do his best, but If he doesn't really have that ultimate authority to save the uttermost

If it's all up to us as to whether we're drawing near it's it's our will we are the autonomous creatures

It's a it's a very very I don't know how there is any Assurance in that system.

I really don't I can't see how there's any consistent assurance in that system

Back to the article The sixth chapter of John is one of the top three most contested passages in all scripture regarding the doctrine of salvation

Along with Romans 9 Ephesians 1 well again as much as Layton doesn't appreciate this that just shows me that in his mind

Calvinism is the thing Because I deal with Roman Catholics all the time and these would not be the text and there's you know

I don't know how many hundreds of millions of them Deal with Muslims all time not those texts

To say that these are the three most contested passages in all scripture regarding the doctrine of salvation Means that in his mind the primary thing in the doctrine of salvation is

Calvinism So as students of scripture, let's put our hermeneutical training to work and answer the major questions about the context this hotly contested chapter

Ironically Well, listen to the information provided by professor flowers and Ask yourself a simple question.

Is this actual actually? The contact the context of Romans chapter 6 what what would give you?

the context Romans chapter 6 Think about that in your mind for a moment and then listen to what is actually presented

The audience is a bunch of unbelieving Israelites looking for the food and the 12

Apostles What do we know about the Israelites of this day? A They have become calloused

Otherwise, they might see with their eyes here with their ears understand with their hearts in turn. I should heal them acts 28 27

They were not born calloused Excuse me, that's gonna happen a few times today

Allergies told you about it. Don't worry about it. But there is bugging me It's giving me a headache to cough that many times during the day.

So sort of like oh eyes about to explode They were not born callous, but over time they had grown hardened in their religious self -righteousness which prevented them from hearing seeing and responding to the revelation of God a

B they are being judicially hardened or cut off or sent a spirit of stupor So as to seal them in their callous condition why to accomplish a greater redemptive purpose to their rebellion

Crucifixion and grafting Gentiles in the church Romans 9 through 11 noticing some real broad

Claims here See Jesus is not attempting to win them over or have them come to faith in great numbers as we see in Acts 2 when?

Peter preaches in Fact the support of God's judicial hardening of Israel We see Jesus actively instructing his apostles to not tell others who he is

Matthew 16 20 Jesus purposely purposely speaks in parables in order to prevent their coming to faith and repentance mark 411

Matthew 13 If anything Jesus is actively provoking the

Jews with very difficult teachings in this chapter He tells them to eat his flesh and drink his blood without explanation Clearly, he is not attempting to persuade this audience to stick around.

He is provoking them purposefully Is this contextual information relevant when attempting to understand the author's intention with regard to the natural inability of mankind from birth?

I Certainly would think so given he is addressing a large group of people nicknamed the elect of God We're being actively blinded by God from seeing the truth now need

I point out the Huge number of assumptions being made here. I hope not but I also hope that you're all recognizing

So far, we haven't even touched on the actual context of John 6, which would sort of require going to John 5 and Then looking at what happens the beginning of John 6 anyway

Notice the judicially hardened Jews are not the only ones present when Jesus is speaking in John 6 the 12 apostles are also

The fact they are the only ones who stick around after Jesus is done provoking the crowd with his pro cannibalistic sounding sermon

I'm reading it. Yeah Yeah, I know. I'm yeah missing by a mile, but we'll get to that in a second

Why didn't the 12 leave to it is almost as if they are drawn to him through persuasive through persuasive teachings and miraculous signs

Remember unlike the other Israelites in the audience They had watched Jesus walk on water control the weather heal the blind Be the masses and had personally explained to them the meaning of the mystery

Mysterious the meaning of the mysterious that the world had not yet been given of course these folks

Especially the ones that come across the lake had actually seen the miracle of the feeding of the 5 ,000 but Those GS are entrusting with the truth from Israel are only a select few at this time while he is on earth the rest are being hardened and they're already calloused self -righteous stubborn condition not a condition from birth

Due to the fall as Calvinists impose onto the text as if any of this is relevant to that But a condition of their own doing a condition

God is using to accomplish a greater Redemptive good for all which of course raises all sorts of questions about well

What if they didn't do that then God couldn't have done it But that's that that old sovereignty thing and you know

God's knowledge what he's gonna do and part of his decree if you don't have a decree and it all gets You can't really affirm any of it.

Anyhow Uh with that context in mind, let us look at the text timeout what context

You saw y 'all see what just happened. This is how you set up Ignoring what the words actually say you create

This alleged context by pulling together this thing that that was not the context of John 6 okay, if you want the context

John 6 you actually have to look at the text of John 6 and The text of John 6 begins with the feeding of the 5 ,000 and then

Jesus sends them away They want to make him king He sends the disciples away.

He comes them walking on the water immediately They are then at Capernaum and now other disciples have

Crossed the lake they've entered the synagogue Capernaum. They're actually seeking Jesus They are called

God seekers well Jesus seekers at least in this context That's the context

Now what you've he's done here is tried to create this idea That there is this judicial hardening of Israel that makes possible

The redemptive work of Calvary but Because of his commitment to synergism and autonomy

He has to say that what's Going on here is not a part of the decree of God or God accomplishing something but what's going on here is

The righteous hardening of people who had hardened themselves They And so they're gonna be hardened so that the redemptive acts can take place

But there is a specific people the Apostles who are being chosen out of Israel and they're good to be given these truths and so what

Jesus is actually talking about is just the disciples and And The judicially hardened

Jews and hence it's only about then and there is no application that can be made beyond that It's just about that But I don't have anything to do with today because there is no judicial hardening of Jews and So there's no, you know any of that stuff so Let's continue on now,

I just simply point out that's You're pretending that you're given the context of John 6 what you've done is you've created a very easily refutable by the way

Theological narrative that you're now going to use to filter John 6 through That's not that's not context

That's a pretext Okay, very clear very obvious Just just straightforward with that context in mind let us look at the text then we have provided for us verses 35 through 44 that's for some reason this is 43, but 44 is included as well.

And wow, what a strange People cannot come to me unless the father who sent me draws them to me and I'll raise them to life on the last day

Let's let's hope a Decent translation is used in the debate that is actually understandable

But since There may be people in the audience who have not worked through John 6.

Let's Let's work it through through it together Very quickly.

I don't have time to I'm just gonna go through it quickly Jesus said them I am the bread of life the one coming to me

Shall not hunger and the one believing in me will never thirst so Coming and believing present tense participles

Notice hungering and thirsting. This is going to define the eating the flesh of the

Son of Man drinking his blood the whole cannibalistic idea is absurd in light of The context that defines eating and drinking as coming and believing in verse 35

Verse 36, but I said to you that you have seen me and you are not believing here is absolutely key

Which evidently is completely skipped by professor flowers the context is the explanation of the unbelief

Why have they seen they've seen the miracles They are seeking after Jesus You have seen me and you are not believing

That's this that's the statement of verse 36, by the way, I should be feeding this If you want to have it there

Am I not? Yes, very good, but I said to you

Sorry verse 36 All That the father gives me will come to me and the one coming to me.

I will never cast out Because I have come down out of Heaven not in order to do my will

But the will the one who sent me so here you have the explanation of Why it is these men are unbelievers

All that the father gives me will come to me Now, how would that be an explanation of their unbelief?

Because coming to Christ believing in Christ, these are synonymous actions as we will see

All that the father gives me will come to me. Well that explains why they are not coming explains why they are not believing

Because they've been not been given by the father to the son and The one coming to me.

I will never cast out now if he was saying this only to the

Apostles and was Contrasting the Apostles to everybody else

That would at least be supportive of the flowers thesis But that's not what you have here

I suppose I'll leave the flowers thesis off for the moment until we actually read it

I mean, I've already read it you can go read if you want to but well, we'll leave the refutation part out until later the one coming to me

I Will never cast out why? Because I've come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will the one him who sent me so the father and the son have the exact same will in The accomplishment of the salvation of God's people is direct parallel to John chapter 10 verse 30 and so verse 39 says

What is that will the one who sent me? In order that of all that he has given to me and notice the use of the neuter there

Gathering the whole group together of all he's given me. I lose none of it singular

But raise it up on the last day Now Notice that the purpose of The will of the one of the father that is expressed here ties all of those who are given to Christ up and Promises their resurrection at the last day

So Whatever that resurrection last day that's receiving eternal life So this is speaking in very expansive terms, it's not speaking in minimalized terms that are relevant only to the twelve

What about everyone else is gonna be raised up in the last day? They seem to be be included in what

Jesus is saying Well, that's true because for this is the will of my father in order that all the ones seeing the son and believing in him

Might have eternal life and I will raise them up in the last day. There is a general

Evangelistic promise that extends to all people in all ages Anyone who looks upon the son and believes in him not just the disciples

But anyone who looks upon the son and believes in him Has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day

So the ones given by the father son and those who look upon the son believe in him same group

Same group you cannot differentiate them. You cannot distinguish them the same group and so if you have looked upon the son in faith the promise of your salvation is found in the obedience of the son to the father and That he will always do the father's will

That really is the foundation of all of our salvation It's not my faithfulness.

It's not my autonomous will It is the Security of knowing that the son will always do what is pleasing to the father

There's your foundation now

There's grumbling in verse 41 Versus 40

At first 41 Jews grumble about him. Is this not Jesus so on so forth verse 43

Jesus answered and said to them do not gun guns at a met a lay loan.

Do not grumble amongst yourselves Who nice do not I L thine cross may a on may hop a tear hop empsas may help who say out on God go on a steso out on and a escorte.

Hey Mira No one is able to come to me

Unless a on may The father the one who sent me draws him and I will raise him up that two hymns are the same.

I Will raise him up in the last day who was raised up in the last day in verse 44 the one who is drawn by the father to the son

But previously it was that who looks and believes Previous to that given by the father the son.

They're all the same group. They're all the same group It is impossible it is artificial to make distinctions at that point and to say that there's any others and I would have continued on to verse 45.

It is written. It stands written In the prophets and they shall all be taught by God everyone hearing from the father and Learning is coming to me so that hearing and learning

Those are things that you do When something is presented to you this is describing what the drawing of the father is

The opening of the ears the learning of who Jesus is. This is all divine revelation of the human soul and Everyone hearing and learning from the father

Is coming to me Everyone do we hear and learn from the father if you limit who is being spoken of here to the disciples?

You just might as well put You know, this does it puts it in the same category as Jehovah's Witnesses Because Jehovah's Witnesses look at the

New Testament ago. That's about the anointed class not about me And so now John becomes something.

Oh, isn't that special what the disciples had but it's not about me. Hmm All right.

So what's the argument then that is given well You have the quotations as Calvinistic believers often emphasize verse 37 as it relates to verse 39 to prove that the author intends to teach

Calvinistic doctrine That is that God has pre -selected a particular number of people to irresistibly draw to faith

Believing all others without the ability to respond willing to respond I assume this is supposed to be willingly to the revelation of God As if God is under some obligation by grace to make them capable because they're

Fallen at Adam, but I doubt I doubt there's a belief in that kind that strong form of original sin with them

Well, of course there isn't anyways, however, I'd like to draw our attention to the context clue given in verse 38

Everyone whom my father gives me will come to me I will never turn away anyone who comes to me because I have come down from heaven to do to Do not my own will but the will of him who sent me and it is the will of him who sent me that I should

Not lose any of those he has given me, but I should raise them all to life on the last day Well, I really don't like that translation.

Whatever it is. Jesus is clearly speaking Contextually of what is happening while he is down from heaven while on earth

God has clearly sent Christ to accomplish a specific part of his redemptive will

Is that will to be a great evangelist like Peter in Acts 2 and when thousands to faith clearly not

God's will is for Jesus to come down from heaven and train a group of pre -selected

Israelites Those given to him by the Apostles to carry the gospel to the rest of the world and establish his church after he's raised up Interestingly enough he quotes

John 12 32 or yeah, John 12 32 there keep that in mind It's gonna be come up a little bit later on Now is it true that in God's sovereign decree he

Elected the Apostles gave them unto the Son all of that's very true

Um, but is there anywhere that John says that what

Jesus actual mission in coming to earth was was simply to Train a group of pre -selected

Israelites To carry the gospel to the rest of the world and establish his church after he is raised up.

No, not quite. Yes, sir You've given up You threw in a towel, huh?

You got nothing towel is thrown in that's all over with okay Calvinists are taking something

Jesus is addressing in his actual first century context and applying it to their Holistic systematic view of salvation for all

God's elect throughout all time. This is an example of proof texting Well professor flowers.

I hope you never quote John 316 Because that's from the Gospel of John 2 is that proof texting?

Oh Wait a minute. I happen to know you do quote John 3 16. Oh, that's about something else Really? That's about something else

How about John 10? The sheep, how about John 14? Preparing a place for you that was originally spoken to the disciples only about them, right?

It's amazing what happens when you try to Rip the sovereign freedom of God out of the the text of Scripture.

It becomes a royal mess It really does Calvinists, okay. Um, what

Calvin what Calvinist unintended what Calvinists should be an s there unintentionally fail to see is that Jesus while here on earth in the flesh is actively and judicially blinding

Israel by means of parables a spirit of stupor and provoking language while only drawing to himself while on earth a remnant of pre -selected

Israelite messengers To carry out the purpose for which Israel was elected from the beginning to bring the light to the rest of the world

In other words Jesus audience in John 6 is made up of his pre -selected Apostles from Israel Well, there was that Judas guy and the already calloused

Israelites who are being judicially blinded by God from seeing the truth You realize what this means, don't you?

That no one who heard these words was ever saved. How do you know that?

Not sure how that church grew The way that it did at Pentecost and afterwards I think all sorts of folks who had eaten of the

Feeding of the 5 ,000 or had heard the words of Jesus once the Spirit came the Gospels preached were saved

I can't prove it, but somebody was being saved The term ice of Jesus is floating through my mind here

In other words Jesus audience in John 6 is made up of his pre -selected Apostles from Israel and Judas and the already calloused

Israelites who are being judicially blinded by God from seeing the truth. Nobody else evidently. No nobody else

Well, they all walked away, didn't they? They did all walk away at that particular point in time but They weren't nobody was saved later

Every but all those everybody that saw the feeding of the 5 ,000 Jesus was just doing that teaching just to judicially blind them all no preparation for anything future

No, cuz because we got to find a way around John 6 so yeah, they were all judicially blinded as was

Judas I guess The reason his audience walks away is not because God rejected them from before the foundation of the earth as If there was something about that as Calvinism presumes

Well, if you let the whole Bible speak and Ephesians 1 and stuff put all together By no means

God has consistently expressed desire for the repentance and faith of the Israelite people and then you have you know

The standard Matthew 23 37 second Peter 3 9 first 72 for the big three, you know

Been there done that Oh Ezekiel 18. Oh, let's throw that one in for the fun of it All a contextual they're walking away because God has sealed them over there in their already rebellious condition

For a time for a time in order to accomplish his redemptive plan as was prophesied

Israel is not rejecting I guess Then they could have been unhardened later on maybe

I guess Who knows? I mean, we're just making it up as we're going along Israel is not rejecting

God because God rejected them quite the opposite God is temporarily hardening those in their callous condition in order to accomplish redemption for all including them

So if they had followed Jesus and there couldn't have been any salvation I guess So what is the intent of John 6 is it as the

Calvinist teaches that God has condemned all men over to a totally disabled condition from birth due to the sin of Adam and Only irresistibly draws out a pre -selected number of people for salvation

Leaving the rest on any hope of response to his own appeals for reconciliation. Don't you don't just what when you have to express the other side in that kind of language

You know that the person doing it is afraid of a letting the other side actually express it in their own language because they don't

Really have a strong argument against it. It's just just how it is. But Is that what it is or is the intent of John 6 to tell us the narrative of Jesus is provoking

Israel in their hardened unbelief while drawing out for himself a remnant of divinely appointed

Messengers to take the gospel into all the world drawing all to himself after he was raised up then quoting

John 12 32 When I am lifted up from the earth,

I will draw everyone to me Hmm well remember

I told you he quoted John chapter 12 up above and I said, you know keep keep that in mind because it seems to be rather inconsistent to quote it up above in John 12 in regards to To carry the gospel the rest of the world and establish his church after he is raised up John 12 32

But John 12 32 is talking about Greeks, right and John 12 32 is talking about the cross, right

So are you really saying that the cross is a universally attractive thing or is the meaning of John 12 32 obvious?

Obviously that both Jews and Gentiles will be drawn by the cross

Which is repulsive to the natural man when it says all men

It's not every single man because it is plain as the nose on anybody's face There for the vast majority of humankind

The cross is repulsive The cross is a sign of weakness of failure. It's foolishness according to first Corinthians chapter 1 stench of death in the nostrils those who are perishing

Now, of course the synergist has no real again the categories of those who are being saved and Those who are perishing

Common and Paul have no meaning for the synergist Because they're all based upon man.

It's man's choice to be one of the two But in first Corinthians 1 we see that those categories are based upon God's choice

God's election God's freedom and What you end up with when you try to come up with a non sovereignty based

Gospel message is always gobbledygook, which is what you've ended up with here

So a Text that Not only teaches the sovereignty of the father

But the perfect ability and power of the son In saving all that the father gives him a

A Excuse me text that Shows the unity of the father and the son the ability of the son to fulfill the father's will and hence becomes the very foundation of the security that the believer has in Jesus Christ I'm sorry, if you're a synergist, you can't claim it for yourself because Well, it was only about the disciples

So all that stuff about the Sun Coming down from heaven to do the father will the father all that was

Was not about salvation for anybody pass the disciples. No, no, no. No, that would no it was it was just about that remnant of Israelite teachers messengers

And and Jesus accomplished that but now synergism it's we've got to do our part.

There you go And there was a link To Another article have you been given to Christ by the father which?

Tries to derive this from John chapter 17 and once again what you just need to understand I'm like I don't have time to go into that But what you need to understand is if you've ever read

John chapter 17 and you have read about Christ's high priestly prayer in his intercession

Up until when Jesus as I pray for those who will believe because of their word everything that's before that Irrelevant to you.

It's not relevant to you only about the disciples now Obviously, there was a historical fulfillment of the special calling of disciples in our apostolic ministry in the giving of revelation and so on and so forth but thankfully down to the history of the church people have recognized that Jesus's words in the gospel of John Especially given that John is one of the last to write

Are meant to to be that incredible comfort and treasure that people have always found them to be and That we can as believers rejoice in The fact that the

Son will always do the will of the Father and that is the very foundation of our own

Understanding with God when you try to get away from the freedom of God and salvation you end up with a man -centered salvation that does not have as its central purpose the glorification of God big price to pay big big big price to pay to Try to get around the clarity of John chapter 6

Move on from there in the last 20 minutes or so because we have to go a few minutes long to as we get got started a little bit late.

I Wanted to respond to some statements. Oh Goodness 13 tweets

Yikes. Oh Brother flower says

I'm not representing him. Uh, nothing. I said suggest those present may not have been saved again You are not representing me correctly

Okay so The only two people the only only people in the audience are the judicially hardened and the disciples.

So the temporary judicial hardening Taken off later on once the crucifixion takes place.

So maybe they can be saved later on I think I did actually raise that as a possibility. It's still

Grossly artificial you you never prove that from the text you impose that on the text

Completely It is so artificial sir, and it is so plain to many of us that it's just because you won't let the words mean

What they mean because they will not let you be a synergist. They will not let you control the power of God in salvation

I Never said it was only about the disciples. Well, that is an overstatement. I've read it pretty much directly

Didn't he said do I have to open it up again? I was that's how I thoroughly understood what you were reading and apparently we need to I don't know

Read him as he reads John 6 maybe so we can now we don't want to do that.

No, we don't we know No, don't want to do that So the context was one more time

Did it did it did it did it did it today this place teachings

All apostles are also in the audience God's will train a group of pre -selected

Israelites Proof texting But we fail to see the judicial blinding and the drawing of the remnants and In other words

Jesus audience John 6 is made up of his pre -selected apostles from Israel and the already calloused Israelites who are being judicially blind by God for seeing the truth

I Think that's what you said in that. Yeah, that's what you said. Apparently there was another paragraph that wasn't actually on the page

Yeah, well, okay All right Zakir Hussain did a debate a few months ago.

I played a clip from it we use it as an illustration of Examining synoptic parallels and recognizing

In that situation that Matthew was telescoping Mark was not telescoping mark uses three times number of words and Matthew uses so on so forth.

I Want to address another issue and this one's a little troubling to me Because some of you will remember that Zakir Hussain is the young man that I debated in the

East London Mosque a week after the Benghazi attack and The subject that debate was is

Muhammad prophesied in the Bible Which means that what we're gonna listen to today.

I've already addressed with mr. Hussain and Have pointed out the problems with this presentation to mr.

Hussain Now, unfortunately, I do not recall the

Christian representative in this debate Thoroughly answering this question thoroughly answering the presentation here

It's possible that he's just never Heard this presentation before I don't know but I think it is important that we listen to what

Zakir Hussain is saying and be prepared to answer this because Hopefully you are familiar with the fact that in Deuteronomy chapter 18

We have a a prophecy A Prophecy that is rather important because according to the

New Testament it is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and when we look at Deuteronomy chapter 18 and we look for context

We need to define some certain terms in Deuteronomy 18 2 and I'll go ahead and put the

Text here Deuteronomy 18 to talking about the

Levites and in Deuteronomy 18 to it says

They shall have no inheritance among their brothers Yahweh is their inheritance as he promised them

We can't bring up anything Okay So verse 2 let me

There we go make it a little bit larger Okay The Levites shall have no inheritance among the countrymen.

Yahweh is their inheritance as he promised them. So among their countrymen What does what does that mean?

Well This means 12 tribes of Israel as Verse 5 makes very plain go down here to verse 5

Where Yahweh your God has chosen him and his sons from all your tribes

To stand and serve in the name of Yahweh forever So this is these these men have been chosen out of your tribes the tribes of whom the tribes of Israel so countrymen tribes talking about Israel this is the

Israelite people that is being discussed so among your brothers out of all your tribes verse the same thing

Israelites not anyone outside the specific 12 tribes of Israel and then in chapter 17 verse 15

I Won't bring it up right now because I need to keep moving here But you may indeed set a king over you whom

Yahweh your God will choose one from among your brothers You shall set his king over you you may not put a foreigner over you who is not your brother

All right, so All of this is the context then that we have when we look in Deuteronomy chapters 17 18

Among your brothers equals Israelites. It's not foreigners. It's not Ishmaelites. It's not Edomites either

Israelites and So we go down to Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 15 and here's what we have

Yahweh your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you from your countrymen

You shall listen to him Now, is there anything in the context that would cause us to go?

Oh That must be somebody from Arabia That must be something other than an

Israelite know everything in the context would indicate that it is in fact

Specifically someone from amongst them and Then verse 18 says

I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you

Speaking to Moses and I'll put my words in his mouth and he shall speak to them all that I command him

It shall come about that whoever will not listen to my words, which he shall speak in my name I myself will require it of him now in the context of Deuteronomy There is no question.

This is talking about a Jewish prophet a man from the countrymen of Israel There is no other contextual meaning

You you are playing with the text if you do anything else with it than that Now some of you might be aware of the fact that according to the

New Testament, this is fulfilled in Jesus We look at Acts chapter 3 begin at verse 22 and we have

Moses said The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers You shall listen to him and whatever he tells you it shall be that every soul who does not listen that prophet shall be destroyed

From the people and all the prophets who have spoken from Samuel to those who came after him also proclaimed these days

You are the sons the prophets and of the covenant that God may be their fathers saying to Abraham and in your offspring shall all the families the earth be blessed

God having raised up his servant sent him to you first to bless you by turning every one of you from your wickedness

Who is this servant has been raised up Peter is proclaiming. This is Jesus this is

Jesus and so in fact That's specifically said right here

The times refreshing may come to the presence of the Lord that you may send the Messiah appointed for you Jesus whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all things about which

God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long Ago, and where is one of the places he did that Deuteronomy 18?

15 18 19 so on and so forth now this was plainly a part of the in geel that existed in the days of Muhammad The author of the

Quran knows nothing about the content of the in geel so he doesn't know anything about this The early

Followers of Muhammad likewise did not seem to have any firsthand knowledge of the content of the

New Testament text and I remind you of The story

I believe and I'm not sure if our friend is out there at the moment But I believe if I recall was it

Let's see if I can get some some help from the studio audience the story about I Thought it was

Umar Who was reading the Christian scriptures? No, he's reading the

Torah and When Muhammad saw him reading the Torah his face changed color and he said is not what

I have given to you sufficient for you I My recollection is either hurt to be or Tabari as the source that I don't think it's in Bukhari or Muslim Bukhari it is in Bukhari.

Okay. Thank you Obviously our studio audience knows something about Um There is the story told

I just narrate it for you that one of the Early followers of Muhammad upon reading if I recall the the

Torah Muhammad's face changed. He was angry and as a result

Most Muslims do not spend a lot of time reading the scriptures. That's good.

The old New Testament And this was certainly true of the early followers and as a result they wouldn't they wouldn't know that Peter preached these things as he does here in Acts chapter 3 so That ignorance of the fulfillment is at least understandable in those days

And it's It's very interesting to note that When you look at John chapter 8, there's also stuff going back

John chapter 14. We'll get to that in a moment So with all that in mind with that as the background, let's listen to what

Zacher Hussein said And I need to turn this down from 1 .6 because that would sound silly this is

Slightly sped up just simply so we have more time There is some comments as Zacher Hussein made

Oh We need to plug things in earlier

One of the reasons Christians should accept the Quran is because the Bible commands you to in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse number 18

God speaks about raising a prophet from the brethren of the Israelites who will be like Moses and he will also be a mouthpiece for God and any person who does not listen to this prophet will be destroyed

This prophecy was not fulfilled before Jesus as a Dead Sea Scrolls and a New Testament confirmed Moreover Jesus cannot be this prophet as due to run a me chapter 34 verse number 10 says and there shall never arise again in Israel a prophet like unto

Moses and since Jesus was from amongst Israel. He is ruled out Well, there you go, there's there's the argument

Jesus is ruled out Because of Deuteronomy chapter 34 verse 10

Well, that's interesting Was Deuteronomy 34 10? Let's take a look at it

While we put up on the screen there since that time

No prophet has risen in Israel like Moses whom Yahweh knew face to face for all the signs and wonders which

Yahweh sent him to perform the land of Egypt against Pharaoh and all his servants and all his Land and for all the mighty power for all the great terror, which

Moses performed the sight of his of all Israel Let's go back to verse 10 and let's let's listen to What Zakir Hussain said again cannot be this prophet as due to run a me chapter 34 verse number 10 says and there shall never arise

Again in Israel a prophet like unto Moses and since Jesus was from amongst Israel. He is ruled out

It doesn't say what Zakir said it says does it it says since that time

No prophet has risen as in Israel like Moses. This is written in Deuteronomy.

This is written hundreds of years before Jesus Huge difference, isn't there?

Since that time up to this time the compilation of all Moses's writings being put together

Which is else the more liberal scholars would say hundreds of years more conservative scholars like me much shorter period of time

In either case This is written long before minimally

Minimally at most look well most liberal. You can't say that. I mean liberals to come up with anything

But in even the common liberal perspective You're talking minimally 500 years for Christ Probably more like 800 years for Christ.

So all it's saying is between Moses and 800 years before Christ No prophet has arisen like Moses it does not say shall never

That is that is not a valid translation of the Hebrew. That's not a valid translation of the

Greek Septuagint That is just simply a completely misrepresented citation of the text

I can only hope Zakir that You got that from some secondary resource and didn't check it out because That would be like me

Misquoting the Quran to try to make a point that Muhammad couldn't possibly be a prophet You don't want to do that.

You don't want to do that But there is a little bit more to listen to here Moreover Jesus himself said that this prophet will come after him and John chapter 14 15 and 16

Jesus speaks of someone to come after him who will testify to who he is if you read the text carefully

You can see that this person is in fact the prophet like Moses who shall speak what he hears and shall be told what to Say which doesn't sound like a holy ghost is a hundred percent

God Christians claim this text is regarding the Holy Ghost, but it's clear that it's not the Holy Ghost Also did the

Holy Ghost guide Christians into all truth and testify regarding Jesus the answer is no as any book on church history shows

That Christians were at each other's throats for centuries upon centuries Trying to figure out things like was Jesus just a man or was he just God or was he both?

now clearly Zucker has come to recognize that this kind of argumentation is effective

For people who are already convinced that you're telling the truth, but it is not effective

If you're actually attempting to communicate to the other side Notice the rat -a -tat -tat throw this stuff this stuff the answer is this when actually that's an extremely

Controversial statement, I mean John chapter 14 and John chapter 16 are specifically about the

Holy Spirit. They say that John chapter 14 and John chapter 16 are

Jesus promised to his disciples that they will be indwelt by the

Holy Spirit of God If that is Muhammad that is being spoken about then that was not a promise to the disciples themselves

That would not be a promise to anyone for 600 years. And even then Muhammad doesn't dwell on anybody's heart

Furthermore Muhammad didn't know anything about what Jesus actually taught or said and Therefore he did not bring to mind

The things Jesus had taught and said and did not fulfill the promise of John 14 through 16. There are few texts.

Well Ironically given Zucker is defensive this about the only worst text to try to force into this is

Song of Solomon 516 But once again,

I understand why the Muslim has to do what he has to do because the Quran says That we find

Muhammad in our scriptures and the reality is we don't It's not because we ain't looking it's cuz he ain't there

But any honest reading of John 14 through 16 in its context will never lead you

To the conclusion that it's talking about a 7th century Arabian prophet and by the way

The presence of the Holy Spirit in the church is not a guarantee that there will not be controversies in the church the

Holy Spirit was in the church and yet the Apostles had to write against numerous heresies and falsehoods is

The fact that Muhammad has come and given the Quran kept kept Islam unified soccer You all on the same page on everything soccer

How about them they're Shiites and the Akhmadis and the Druze and all the rest of the guys So that would mean that Muhammad doesn't fulfill it right?

Oh Well, but we know who Jesus is Not really Not really. I mean, there's so little about who

Jesus really is in the Quran how can you really say you have any type of in -depth knowledge of Jesus you could not create a meaningful full

Christology From the pitiful references in the text of the Quran you couldn't do it. It's just not enough there

Not up there One other one other thing and then we'll wrap it up because we're pretty close to about an hour

I think we got started about five minutes late something like that I'm gonna leave Paul aside for a moment and I might touch upon him in a rebuttals

But I'm gonna stick to the Gospels for now Biblical scholarship mentions that Mark was the first gospel to be written around the year 70

CE With Matthew and Luke copying from Mark and changing things to improve the image of Jesus around the years 80 to 85

CE now notice This is biblical scholarship Well, I can sit here and say the

Quranic scholarship says that the Quran it was collected over the period of time from 630 to 705 that there was a plenty of evidence of substantial alteration in 705

AD as well as under Uthman in in in the 650s and this is a

Quranic scholarship And I'll just base all my arguments upon that. Why not? Why not?

Every assertion being made here is easily disputed but This rat -a -tat -tat throw it all out there.

Don't substantiate anything approach It doesn't it doesn't move the conversation forward it just simply makes your side go rah rah

Yes, I go. Yeah It doesn't it doesn't accomplish anything and it's it's unfortunate.

I wish that there was Something better I could say about that There's a lot more to be said about that But we have gone about as far as my voice is gonna let me go today

Anyways, and pretty much right at an hour, I think pretty close. So Thanks for listening to my line today

Lord willing we will be back Yep next week on Tuesday.

Well, I'm there won't be much left of me on Tuesday Lord willing I blogged about that put stuff on Facebook about that, but Hopefully there'll be something of me here on Tuesday to meet with you