Discussing Reading Assignment (Class 02)

Week one scared you.

Hopefully week two has made you less less apprehensive.

All right.

I want to start tonight with a with a question from the floor because while we had our break Ross asked me a very good question and I said I said Ross hold that question until we get done with the break.

So Ross ask your question again.

Okay so let me let me let me try to clarify what you're saying and make sure I'm getting it right.

I'm going to repeat the question and make sure I understand.

What you're saying is how can we expect someone to believe something they obviously can't because they are suppressing it.

And the answer to that is welcome to Calvinism.

No I'm serious right because that's the point is they won't.

It's not even an issue of can't it's an issue of won't.

So you say well why then argue and this is we're going to get there.

God uses the means of the proclamation of the gospel to bring about the salvation of his elect.

Therefore part of the proclamation of the gospel is giving a reason why we trust it.

That's according to 1st Peter right I am to give a reason for why I trust it and I am to do so with gentleness and reverence because God may according to 1st Timothy or excuse me 2nd Timothy God may by chance grant that person repentance.

And so that's the whole reason I'm doing this.

So when I'm standing there talking to if I'm sitting in the hospital room talking to that guy and look at the building all I'm doing is appealing to what he does know in his heart but I know he's suppressing and as I said earlier I said tickling the hand that was kind of just my sort of picture.

I'm not tickling the hand the Holy Spirit's tickling the hand.

I'm not going to remove that.

I'm not going to lift anything but what I am doing is I'm poking holes in the dike as it were and I'm creating I am creating for him less reason to push that down and and again all by the power of God being used by God.

This is why when I'm done having apologetic conversation with somebody and they say well I don't believe you and I still don't believe in God I say to them I'm not surprised.

You're still suppressing the truth and unrighteousness.

You're still there and it's only by the grace of God that you're going to ever be not there.

So when it comes to a person going from death to life that is a work of God and yeah you don't know that that's the other thing too right we don't know if they're the elect or not they may continue to stay in unbelief until eternity but there is also to the call to be the watchman on the tower you know the the Old Covenant text that talks about you know the one who who warns them you know I I don't remember who said it it may have been Spurgeon but he said and I think it was now that I think about it but I could be wrong he said if a man goes to hell he should do so having to go over us to get there you know he should have to step over us to get there meaning we should try in every way we can to put before him the obstacle of the gospel and the obstacle of the of the truth of the faith and and if he's gonna go he's gonna go in spite of me calling him to repentance not without me calling him to repentance you know so I you know again how much relies on me how much relies on God it's a hundred percent God and yet he uses me he uses me as his means of bringing the gospel to somebody yeah yeah absolutely and that's why I say evangelism for me apologetics isn't evangelism but it it it it comes into evangelism but evangelism begins with the gospel you know well the Muslim doesn't believe the Bible how can you give them the gospel because I'm I believe the Bible I don't I'm not asking I'm not asking what he believes I'm telling him what is true the Bible and and so I begin there you know but you can't do that he's not new he's neutral no he's not so again I'm circling back yes yes he said many things like that he was the one who said I don't go around and lift up people's shirt to see if there's an e on their back you know to see if they have an e tattooed on their back for elect he said we don't know who the elect are so we proclaim the gospel to everybody that's right I had a conversation not too not too terribly long ago with a guy who was saying ultimately that people didn't have to hear God was gonna save who he wanted that's hyper Calvinism because hyper Calvinism says God doesn't use means God saves who he's going to save regardless of means Calvinism says that God uses means and and effects in time to bring about his eternal purpose and one of those means is the preaching of the gospel that's right and and we're not saying that we're not and that's the thing about presuppositional we're not saying arguments are unnecessary we're saying how do we start the argument how do we start the discussion we're saying well later on we're going to talk about going on offense you know right now we're really talking about defense we're going to talk about offense Frank you got your hand up yeah but again but you have to say that you have to know that that's my point you have to know what's real what can't be denied how do you get there everybody open your book to the first page not the first page of the book but page one of the text which is apologetics the basics every semester I give you reading material as I said this semester I've given you a little heavy stuff but I do want to make sure that we're kind of being able to go over it in class and understanding it I've made a few highlights of things I want to point out to you and if you have questions about the book please raise your hand and ask and if I don't understand it I'll tell you I don't understand it because frame is smarter than I am so there may be some things I don't understand either yes yeah doctrine of knowledge of God this is another book that he wrote yeah there's a page for abbreviation his doctrine of the knowledge of God is is a book that he appeals to a lot and it's it's it's really his writing on the from what I understand it's his writing on Calvin's Institutes because Calvin's Institutes began with the doctrine of the knowledge of God so he's writing on that all right so on page one apologetics it gives the definition which we went over last week you know we're not apologizing for the faith it is the discipline that teaches Christians how to how to give a reason for our hope let me ask you this and this is in no way meant to be a negative I think this is actually okay do you think that there are believers who don't know why they believe and is that always wrong see see we in our in our natural tendency our natural tendencies to say of course it's wrong you shouldn't believe something you don't know why and yet how many people do you know that have been faithful believers their whole life and couldn't really articulate the reasoning but they believe it and you might say well I don't like that yeah yeah that's the point is again in the five years book this was really articulated well in the fifth view we were talking about this on the break Calvin called it the census divinity or didn't divinity it's that the sense of the divine that we all have no God exists and some people can't make that argument there are people that I know that are the most blessed Christians in the world but they can't argue themselves out of a brown paper bag they just don't have that capacity to think that way and yet they they trust Jesus and they're they're on their way to glory and so you know should we have a reason for the hope that we have and be able to give it yes but it when we say well if a person doesn't have it that makes their faith somehow inferior no not necessarily it's just you know what do they people can understand their faith but not always understand why in the sense of reason yeah yeah again we talk about children who know their parents love them you know they know it you know all right and I'm not saying that's a good argument for faith I'm just saying it's it's enough for them and that's okay all right moving on in your book we have the section on presuppositions I really like what he says on page 4 at the top it says our apologetic approach is firmly rooted in our commitment to Christ's covenant lordship see it's it goes beyond just I'm presuming God exists no I'm presuming Christ is my Lord and I'm in covenant with him so I'm beginning much further down the line than just a God might exist that's where evidentialists arrive a God might exist the Christian God probably exists no I'm in covenant relationship with my Lord Jesus Christ and that's my starting point page 5 at the end of the first paragraph we are either for Christ or against him no one is unbiased and he references Matthew chapter 12 verse 30 somebody want to look that up real quick you got a you got a Bible on that computer of yours or somebody please you got it Matthew 5 or 1230 he's Frank Scott I think he's right there anyone who is not with me is against me and anyone who does not gather with me scattered yeah and that basically that's all dr.

frame is saying no one's unbiased no one is you're either for Christ or not it's not a nobody can say well I'm neutral I love something he said in his lectures I've been listening to dr.