Abolitionism with Derin Stidd

It's fascinating to me how easily someone in one religion can find the fallacies and biases in another religion.

I think that what's fascinating...

You're razor sharp on your criticism of Islam here.

Yeah, but what I find fascinating, Jeff, is that you recognize that with other religions, but you don't do it with your own. Because I...

That may be the case. And there's that confirmation bias coming up again.

Introduction to the Show and the Ohio Sports Clip

This is Apologetics Live. To answer your questions, your host, from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport.

We're live! All right, Apologetics Live, we're here tonight. We are Anthony Free. They bring Pastor Justin in. We're Anthony Free here. He's still doing stuff. I thought he was going to be back this week.

But in light of the fact, we're going to have something special since he's not here. We'll do something special for Ohio. Have a special video to show. So before we get started, I'm Andrew Rappaport. This is Pastor Justin Pierce.

We are part of Apologetics Live. This is a show where you can come in, ask any question, any challenge you have for us. We're here for that. This is our office hours. Thursday nights, 8 to 10 Eastern Time.

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We've had that happen. This is the Ministry of Striving Fraternity. Find out more about Striving Fraternity at strivingfraternity .org. And in light of let's bring this up here. In light of well, I guess in light of Anthony not being here.

Now, I don't know if you've seen this. Justin Peters told me he hasn't seen this yet, and I know he couldn't make it in tonight. But this is from Ohio. Now, this is we're going to talk about issues of morality and culture tonight.

Oh, yeah. And this should be like when you talk about brain-dead simple legislation, okay, having legislation to say that men should not compete in women's sports. That's right. I mean, there shouldn't be a need for legislation like that, but there is.

And as we're seeing, men are winning all the women's sports that they couldn't win if they were I mean, now you've got a 40, what, 6-year-old guy that's going to compete as a woman weightlifter. And the only reason he wants to do that is because, well, he wants to be able to burn the U .S. flag.

How in the world is he ever going to represent this country? All right. So let's play this first clip. This is from Ohio, a woman that is going to present legislation to ban biological men from playing in women's sports.

So let's give a listen.

Oh, yeah. Helps if I hit play. Move to amend with Amendment 1594. Object. The chair has the amendment. The amendment appears to be in order. The representative may proceed. Watch what happens as you read.

It is a fairness issue for women to be able to achieve their dreams and athletics in our state. And it's crucial to preserving women's rights and the integrity of women's and girls' sports. Across our country, female athletes are currently losing scholarships, opportunities, medals, education, and training opportunities.

This amendment will require schools that are part of the OHSAA to designate separate teams for participants of the biological sex. School interscholastic conference or organization that regulates interscholastics shall permit biological males to participate on athletic team or an athletic competition designated only for biological female participants.

Okay. So you look at that. I mean, that was just simply incredible. You can't hear what she's saying. And that was their purpose, is to drown her out so you can't hear. I mean, they couldn't even hear when you watch the video.

He's banging the gavel, can't hear that over it. But I want you to see the other angle on the Democrat that I'm sorry. I don't know any other way of saying this, but to me, it's like this is a third grader.

I want my way. I want my way. Okay. This I don't know how else to say it, but the Democrats can't win. It seems on any issue. Without it's like, well, in Texas, if we can't get our way, we're going to we're going to walk out.

There's not enough of a coalition to be able to not coalition, but enough of a quorum to be able to vote. Okay. I want you to watch this guy's behavior. He's the guy in the center. And if he doesn't get his way, he doesn't want to hear what this woman has to say.

He's just complete disrespectful to anybody else's ideas. Watch when the camera's just on him. And I don't know. Tell me if you think he's acting like a three year old with a tenor penchant tantrum. Yeah.

I can't even say the word.

Apparently, there's several involved in that.

I mean, is that childish or what?

Well, but you think if it's if it's designed to disrupt and stop the governmental process, if it's designed to do that. I mean, they learned, you know, on the sixth that they can do that same thing. They can they claim to cause turmoil, upset, you know, people and cause problems like that.

And next thing you know, we can have laws based on fear and tactics like this.

We mentioned Ohio and Dr. Svestro comes in as me.

Well, it's because he he doesn't want anybody to see his face. Yeah.

He puts himself in here, but then doesn't have a camera on. So he's got my face. I don't know why he did that.

He's on mute. Yeah. You know, Chris Huff says this is something a five year old does when he doesn't get his way, you know, and he's exactly right. Yep. You know, that's the tactics of a bully, of of somebody that that they don't actually have law.

They know they don't have the position.

And that's what you just said. It's that they they know they can't win. Yeah. In the area of ideas. Yeah. Behave this way. Okay. That's amazing. I was. Anthony added himself in here. I'm kind of hoping that he will get his camera and microphone working because I'd love to see what he's got to say.

But, you know, this is this is, you know, Katie says disrespectful.

But that's a socialist tactic. You got to think about it as a communist socialist tactic. The idea of of intimidating everybody else to silence them.

I'm going to put Anthony out till he gets his camera working. Okay. Oh, he's saying, I think he's. I think he texted me lots of allergies is what I think he just texted us.

Poor guy. Everybody praying for him. He's having a lot of allergy problems.

Yeah. I guess his non-dairy diet didn't get rid of his allergies. Like he says. All right. Okay. So he says he's just listening, but he came in here. All right. I would have loved to have seen what his what he would have had to say about.

Well, his his state representatives, because that was a really bad representation of Ohio. Sorry. All right. But let's get to tonight's topic. And Pastor Darren is going to join us later. He is as pastor, you know, he's discipling people and that's what he is doing.

And so he told me he was going to come in late. I did call him last night. We had a very lengthy talk so that we could go over some of the things that since he was going to come in late that I would be discussing.

So he knows my position. I know his position. Anything that he and I would disagree with. We now we know clearly what they are so that we can discuss those. I wanted to have that up front. So he's going to come in late and it'd be unfair for him to come in and have anything that would be a disagreement.

Now, we want to talk about abolitionism. And nobody knows my position on it. So I know, you know. So we have not on this show in a very long time. It's been many, many years since we've talked about abolitionism.

And there's reasons for that. And, you know, I got in. I had met Pastor Darren last year and, you know, he and he'll probably tell the story. Actually, I'll let him tell the story. But, you know, he essentially was warned about me being this wicked, evil person that I am.

Yeah, he's right. Yeah, but maybe not in the way that you would mean it. I mean, you're thinking about the fact that, you know, I'm a wicked awful person like every human being is. But, you know, he ended up getting talking with me, he ended up with a very different impression.

It's kind of interesting how many people have been told how I am. And then they meet me and discuss these issues and go, oh, oh, he's not like I was told. Yeah, well, maybe it's that you were told something that you believe something that was inaccurate.

So here's the thing. As we're going to talk about abolitionism, you know, I have had vehement disagreements with a group called AHA. It stands for Abolish Human Abortion. You know, and when I put this out in the show notes, I said that I, years ago, explained that their practices that they had back then, glad to hear from Pastor Darren that these practices are not continued, that there's been some repentance of them.

And they don't continue some of the things that I criticized, that I said were cultic. Now, the interesting thing is if they've gone away, if they've moved their position to be where I am, and I haven't changed, then I guess they should be saying, hey, you know, we should have listened to Andrew earlier, right?

I didn't plan on going into why I felt they were a cult. I didn't think that was necessary. But it seems that as soon as I posted this show, lots of people decided to go after me saying that I'm a liar and things like this.

One person even, you know, because I made the comment that I was an abolitionist prior to AHA's existence. And someone was like, oh, nothing happens before Andrew. It's just a simple fact. I remember when I started and how I started to think about abolitionism as it applies to the issue of abortion.

And I'm going to define abolitionism in a moment. And I'm going to also have, I want to give Pastor Darren a time for him to give a better definition as he is more active in the movement of abolitionism, which is going to be different than abolitionists.

There's some differences there as far as people who are abolitionists but don't participate in AHA, babies are murdered here, end abortion now, or with the ministry that he's involved with, SOS. So as we look at these things, I remember back and I couldn't, just literally two minutes before the show went live, we tried figuring it out.

But when the movie 180 came out, I used to, prior to the movie coming out, use an argument about abortion regarding Hitler and similar to the argument Ray Comfort used. But when 180 came out, anytime I used that argument, it became, oh, you're just Ray Comfort.

And so I like to get away from things like that. And I was reading a book on the history of John Brown. Now, anyone that claims to be an abolitionist that doesn't read abolitionist writings or people like John Brown, people that were in the abolition movement against slavery, well, then you really don't know the history of abolition maybe.

But when I started reading about John Brown and seeing his argument, John Brown was, as far as we could tell, he was a Christian by profession. I mean, we never got to really talk to him. And in the book, at least, it didn't give a profession of faith.

But everything he did was based in his views of Christianity. And he wanted to bring an end to slavery. Now, he took it to a violent means. I think it was I think he kidnapped. It was like the great grandson or great, great grandson of George Washington.

But he actually did. He was instrumental in really ending slavery and not the way that he thought, by the way. It was kind of interesting when you read the history, because when he when he'd go to these and by force to free the slaves, he thought all the slaves would join him in the fight and that he as he moved his way through, he'd build a bigger army of not only whites, but blacks that would fight with him and found that many of them wouldn't fight with him.

And so that was, you know, son that very discouraged him and took him down different paths. Now, what I ended up realizing, my argument when it comes to abortion changed when Ray did the 180. I started to to as I was reading different books on abolitionism, started to look at the issue of what is wrong when it comes to slavery.

Now, Pastor Justin, you know, in my household, I was raised in a Jewish home. We would debate as just family activity. There's no you know, I know that on social media, it's really hard. People put so much emotion when they when they debate something, when they disagree on something.

And I just wasn't raised that way. There's not emotion when when I debate. I mean, sometimes there is. I can't say there isn't ever. But there could be things that, you know, I mean, we would sit around table.

I remember having to being given the task of arguing for slavery. You know, my dad would just be like, OK, you're going to argue this. You're going to argue that, you know, pro Congo. And, you know, and we do that in debate class.

And there wasn't all the emotion in it. You were just honing your skills that, you know, with areas that you need to improve your arguments. And so I remember when I had to argue for slavery, I couldn't back then.

And, you know, he's given some arguments that, you know, OK, actually, you know, slavery wasn't as bad as you think. But there was one there's one key element that really is the essential element that the abolitionists made against slavery.

And that's the ownership issue, that it is immoral to argue that one person can own another person. And this when I started to think about it, when it comes to the issue of abortion, realized there is absolutely no difference between saying this is my property and this is my body.

They are the same argument. It's an ownership issue. There is a difference, though. In slavery, it doesn't always end someone's life in abortion. It does. So my argument is that abortion is far worse than slavery.

OK, because of the fact that slavery, I mean, if you ever read if you read the book Twelve Years a Slave, even Solomon says in his autobiography that had he only known his first master, he wouldn't have thought slavery was a bad thing.

But then he had a different master and realized it was. And so a lot of it comes down to that now. And I will give an open thing here that I know there's some folks who disagree with me, maybe even not knowing my position on on these issues that are they're reading, they're following and some they're disagreeing in comments.

You are welcome to come in. This is an open show. Just go to Apologize Live dot com and join. Go to the duck icon and we can have a reasonable discussion, at least up until Pastor Darren comes in. I want to give him some time to go through some issues.

And so abolitionism, I think, actually, in Christianity, the way I see it now where I disagree with some of the movement of abolitionism is it is focused for many, not all. And I want to be really clear.

I'm you know, this is a very varied group. When we talk about the abolitionists and the movement, you have a lot of different people in there. So you can't make generalities. You can make them when if there's an organization that's saying this is what we stand for, then you could do something like that.

But what I see with a lot of people that claim the name abolition abolitionists, they for many, not all and hopefully not most now because I've kind of moved away from those movements or they just slandered me.

So it made it easy to move away. But what ended up what ends up happening is I think abolitionism is more than just the issue of abortion. OK, I think abolitionism, when you look at it in when it was the issue of slavery, it was a moral issue that had to do with ownership of a person.

Therefore, it was broader than just the issue of abortion or even back then just slavery. So to me, as an abolitionist, I view this as a broader cultural issue than just the abortion issue. I think it includes human trafficking.

I think it includes any kind of slavery where you have one person owning another. And looking them or treating them as property, I think that one of the I think one of the good thing is with the movement that we see with abolitionism is that we see abolitionism has really brought in.

You know, we saw this really kind of I think I saw the start really take take a lot of movement with Ray Comfort's 180 movie. When he put that out, it got a lot of people going out to abortion clinics, a lot more Christians used to be the Roman Catholics who went there and we saw a lot more movement there.

And so that's good. I do think that part of the issue is we've we've fought for, in my opinion, when it comes to politics. And I know there's many, many abolitionists that are going to disagree with me on this.

But I think that we are winning a battle and losing the war. We're winning the battle in in abortion for many. And but the problem is we've we've we're losing the cultural war because while we're still fighting the issue of abortion, there's they're moved on to human trafficking, LGBT, and they're they're taking over the culture.

We we we need to you know, the abolitionists want to make slavery unthinkable. We need to make that we need to make all ownership unthinkable, not just abortion, which it should be. I think abortion, as I said, is the worst, worse than slavery in the sense because it is you know, it killed a person.

However, you look at the human trafficking and many not all there's many who and many abolitionists who will do this, who do deal with the issue of human trafficking, but not to the same level. And so when we speak of abolitionism, there is and I know someone asked me, will I address the issue of abolitionism versus pro-life?

And there is a difference there. Now, Pastor Darren was very instrumental when he comes in. Maybe we'll talk about his involvement in what happened at the SBC, that convention where they actually I was brilliant.

We built school, did that the way he worded it. I was like, when I heard him speak, I'm like, they are going to put abolitionism in. They are going to resolve that. That'll be great. I was surprised that that they did.

They tried to, you know, the SBC elite tried to get rid of it. They tried to water it down because what many when it comes to pro-life, what many abolitionists will see with the pro-life movement is for many pro-life is like, let's chisel away, chisel away, chisel away.

Very much what you had with Wilberforce, you know, William Wilberforce over in England, where that's really it was like 40 years of him trying to just push, push, push, push before you can get it completely outlawed.

And for an abolitionist, the years, it's the ideas, no wanting to just get better laws. It is basically the idea of making this unthinkable, that this is murder. And therefore, it's not, OK, let's lessen this.

Let's ease this. It's that this is murder and we have to treat it as such. And therefore, we can't say, well, let's get better legislation for murderers. No, we need to say this needs to be outlawed. And that's what is really, in my opinion, needs to happen with this.

And so this is a thing that you'll see a difference between abolitionists and pro-lifers. Now, I will say that for many who are pro-lifers, they have not thought through these issues. I think that many of them have not really given enough thought of, they're arguing for just this incremental changes.

Now, James here is saying, he's saying Wilberforce was not an incrementalist. That's a common myth. I, you know, I'm sorry. I actually read the, you know, you know, things that Wilberforce wrote and things that, you know, the laws that England had passed.

And it was a 40 year battle, you know. Well, you know, that's the thing. I mean, just let me finish this and I'll let you go. He did put, he wanted to outlaw it completely. But one of the things he was able to get into law first was the outlaw of the kidnapping.

And he took that and then moved on. He never stopped. He always had the goal of ending it completely. But he did make incremental steps. He did get legislation and proposed legislation that did make some incremental steps.

But the thing is the incremental steps are never where he stopped. Exactly.

Exactly. One thing I want to point out here, KT, Jesus says the war isn't a culture war as much as a spiritual issue. And she's exactly right. You know, there's semantics being argued by James and others that are coming on and trying to have a discussion on the sideline here.

And there's a semantic range that's being discussed here. And we're talking about incrementalism. And as soon as you say that word, you're automatically cornholed or shoehorned into a certain understanding.

What Andrew's trying to say is, is when Wilberforce started this battle, he knew it was going to happen instantly. You know, we're talking about, hey, we need to we need to stop abortion right now. OK, but how do you how do you do that?

Do we go in and have a physical fight, a physical battle? Because I'll guarantee you, you start trying that route, you're going to lose. OK, the argument is not, do we use do we use a worldly means to win a spiritual battle?

But we use spiritual means. Yes, we want to use the government. Yes, we want to bring in laws that will end these things. But you have to recognize the culture that you're at. And the very first thing that Christians start with is the gospel and prayer, you know, and and Wilberforce being a Christian.

He recognized that we are we are fighting. We're fighting a spiritual battle. And he began. Where do you begin with? He began in prayer. He began, you know, going to going to learn about what the word of God says that we're supposed to be doing first.

He stood there and then he was willing to fight no matter how long it took. You know, there's people that are saying, you know, the the pro-life battle. Look, I mean, I think Andrew is on the same page.

You know, the pro-life position is is such an incremental position that they don't want to win. I mean, you know, maybe I'm wrong, but the way I see it is that they would rather slowly come to the position of winning by attrition in the next 200 years to keep their jobs.

And maybe I'm wrong on that, but I do see that. OK, and I'm not saying everyone I wouldn't want to would want to claim that for every single person. But there there seems to be that bent of, well, let's not go too quick.

Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, look, I remember someone saying to me once the reason the NRA will never actually push for for, you know, they want the gun control arguments to continue because that's what gives them money.

And there's probably some of that, I think, in the pro-life movement. I mean, I'm not as active with them at the at the national levels with those those groups that, you know, you like care net and those those different groups.

But I'm sure that, hey, if we if we abolish abortion, they lose their jobs. They should look forward to something like that. You know, Sam said here that doesn't make him an incrementalist. His letter on on the abolition of the slave trade is clear on his thoughts about regulation.

And but the thing is, he did like see, this is where we get we talk past semantic range. Yeah, it's a semantic range. Yeah. And this is the thing that, you know, I at least hear me out before you judge me type of thing.

And I want to do the same with with those who would be disagreeing with me. Wilberforce did pass, you know, bring legislation up that was not a full end to abortion, sorry, to slavery in his time. He did make steps to first and he tried different things, but he ended up bringing realizing he can bring an end to the kidnapping because there was a moral outrage on that issue.

And so he brought that first. And that is what many would would see as incrementalism. So some of this is going to be how we define the terms. The issue is, as you said, I think this is a spiritual battle.

I think. Where was it? One of the guys was it's I know it's always Sam or James. James, you're right, said when you were speaking, he said, I'm into that. It's a spiritual battle and must be at the forefront of everything we do.

And this is the thing that I see. I when I look at the abolition of slavery, it was more than just a spiritual issue. They made it a cultural issue. And I think that this is where I see I do see a difference because we are looking to solve this just with the church.

It often looks like now there's been many movements, good movements to try to get guys elected or bills passed that would end abortion. But, you know, this has got to be just like with the slavery, a multipronged attack.

It is a spiritual issue. I do think that there's a lot here that we have where I think I think the real issue is back in the, you know, well, the Scopes monkey trial is really where we see this happening, where the church just got embarrassed with Scopes monkey trial and said, we're getting out of these.

The fundamentals got it said, we're getting out of culture, basically, you know, got out of the schools, got out of the start their own schools. You know, they went into this idea of like, we're going to go to, you know, the, you know, a monastery type of behavior.

And what they did is created a vacuum for the human secularists to just suck on in. And so that's what happened. And we gave the church, I think it back then they made the mistake of giving up on culture and no longer was the church.

I mean, you think about this years ago, the church is where culture went to for morality. Now, the culture is the one defining morality, and that's the problem. And this is where so I do see this as a broader thing than just abortion.

I see this as an issue where the church has failed in its responsibility. Most lately, I think it's a lot because they they're they're looking to have the big churches. I mean, a lot of these are looking to, you know, they just want to try to fill pews and keep their big salaries going.

And that's a major problem that we have. It's the reason it's one of the major reasons why it's driving fraternity. We focus on trying to minister to the smaller churches. You know, there's 10 ,000 churches that closed last year.

Let that number sink in. The average church size in America is 25. When you compare that to the to these megachurches, it means that there's a lot, far more churches that are under 25 people. And they're struggling and they're not making an impact in the culture.

Why? Because those big churches aren't those big churches are trying to get along with culture. We're seeing that with, you know, some with the SBC convention we've been talking about. Right. And the behavior that they've had.

So when we look at when we look at these issues, we have to look at the fact that an abolitionist is going to be one that says we need to end abortion. Not at the third trimester, the second trimester, the end it.

Right. This is the issue. That's the goal of the abolitionist movement. Right. But I would say that for me, it goes beyond just that and saying all slavery. OK, human trafficking of any kind should be fighting that.

Now, I know that, you know, years ago when Toby was out at the Shepherds Conference protesting, you know, he was trying to argue that, well, abolitionists only focus on abortion because that's legal and human trafficking isn't.

Well, see, when arguments like that, I go, well, that's, you know, abolitionism. To me, it was like, well, then you really don't understand what abolitionism, the heart of abolitionism, is the ownership issue.

It's the idea that one person can own another person. OK. And so I see those differences now because some of the folks who were challenging me on social media today, you know, I didn't want to go into this at all, but people have been calling me all kinds of names and liar and things like that.

Why? I, I said that H .A. in, you know, was a cult back years ago. I've been told there there has been repentance on some of that stuff. Great. See, and this is the thing that if you see for me, I'm I'm trying to be consistent here.

I'm not trying to say, well, I have to be right. I'm trying to say, hey, if if they moved away from the positions that I criticize them for, then I am going to support them more. It's just that simple.

But the fact is, is that, you know, when you sit when they were there, certain definitions. And I remember I think now I see with the history with time, I don't remember if it was Russell. Russell, he's doing a lot of videos against me.

Now, I will I will say he's right in one sense. He you know, when I said that they were a cult, I know that Amir Ramos afterwards came on with that and James White and Jordan Hall. Now, Jordan Hall had come up with I think it was a 14 point list of what a cult is.

And I will agree with Russell Hunter that that list really looked like it was tailored for AHA. OK, so, you know, but when when he he ended up saying that both Jordan and I both came up with our list, you know, looking to make a list that would name AHA.

The issue I had there is that my list has been documented out there for 10 years before AHA existed. So if I'm that good at being a prophet, then someone should be listening to me, not criticizing me.

I don't think I'm a prophet. I think it was the 14 years of of study into cults and world religions that developed it. And I didn't have AHA in mind when I developed it. I had more like, you know, the Latter Day Saints and and all that.

John's asking what AHA is. It's it's abolish human abortion. OK. Yeah. And so it was a group that early on they tried to say they weren't an organization, yet they are an organization. You you had to, you know, early on, at least you couldn't use their logo without funding, you know, paying for it.

And there was things like that. They were. So let me go through my five points and why I thought back then, and I'm trying to be really clear back then. If that's not true today, then they're not a cult today.

And part of doing this show and part of the reason why I wanted to have Pastor Darren on is because for years I have been known for saying that. But if it's not true anymore, then I need to correct that record and say that, OK, this doesn't apply to them anymore.

OK. And so, you know, so, hey, any of you, you know, that that want to get some of these guys that were involved in that early on, if they have, you know, want to call me, you know, get them in touch with me and we'll talk.

And if they've if these positions have changes, as Pastor Darren has said, they have then. Hey, that's what I'm doing the show for is to say, I don't think from what I'm hearing, they're not a cult anymore.

OK, but the first thing was is scripture twisting. And so the first thing or when we look at actually the first first one is going to be authoritarianism, really. But when you look at authoritarianism is when when you have one either individual or group of people that they alone can interpret the scriptures and they don't.

And no one else has a right view except for them. By the way, in case you think, you know, this is it's on our website, Striving for Eternity. If you look up for cults, get my book, What Do They Believe?

And it's there. It's been there for years. And so this has been out there. So authoritarianism is the first thing you see. You'll see this in like the watchtower. Only the watchtower can be the interpreters of the Bible.

The church only only the magisterium can interpret the Bible. And yes, I just tip my hat that I think that the Catholic Church is a cult. The you know, if you look at the Latter-day Saints, they have their living prophet.

Only they can interpret. That's the idea of their authoritarianism. Now, some of the issues I have when it came to the the authoritarianism, some of that also comes into play where you have a lack of integrity with language.

You have leaders who say things and everyone just mimics it. And you had that early on with those guys. They were repeating bad arguments. You know, the arguments of child sacrifice, trying to say that abortion is worship.

It's not. I mean, it's wrong, but arguing that it's a human sacrifice, people don't go have abortions as a human sacrifice. But what people do with that is they're trying to give it some biblical underpinnings.

And that's why what you end up seeing with authoritarianism, what always leads to that is scripture twisting. And that's where I saw that that was, because what what you see them doing is twisting the old.

And I don't know why it is. Latter-day Saints, Jehovah Witnesses, you know, Word of Faith, all these groups always want to focus on the Old Testament historical narrative and read it as if it's as if it's instructional.

That's a major problem with cults. But part of this lack of integrity and language is the scripture twisting where what you see them doing is trying to give the scripture something, a meaning it didn't have or give, in this case, abortion, a meaning it doesn't have to make it fit with the Old Testament, you know, sacrificing of children as an act of worship.

They're not the same thing. They're both equally as sinful. But they're not the same thing. When it comes to exclusivity, that we're the only ones with the truth. Now, this has been something I do. And this is why I would say that AHA is not a cult today, because this is one that I do know has changed.