Separation and Theological Non-Negotiables

No Compromise Radio

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:12

Welcome to No Compromised Radio Ministry. My name is Michael Lee Apendroth here with Steve Cooley, Steve Buchanan Ferguson Cooley.

00:20

Mm -hmm. I didn't know you were Scottish. I Guess I was Irish Hey, we are in Boston after all

00:29

Steve welcome back to No Compromised Radio the Tuesday guy incarnate. Thank you very much What does incarnate actually mean incarnate in meat?

00:37

Is that what it means in flesh in the flesh? I believe it is Okay, I could be wrong though. You're you're always the etymology guy.

00:47

What's going on? Somebody taught me the other day. They said Cerveza and cereal both have the same root because I guess it's wheat or grain or something like that Who know?

00:59

Uh -huh. I know that's weird. I have been studying Hebrew modern Hebrew with Duolingo and I'm only up to about a hundred and fifty five days in a row

01:07

How many days in a row are you with Spanish? It's about eleven hundred and fifty I think have you missed any days and had to do the bridge the gapping?

01:14

Oh, that was early on I think I had that but not for a long time. Okay well I miss and now they make it easy because they give you bonus points for doing in the morning and bonus points in the evening and I know

01:26

I know I Has studied a little bit of the Hebrew language background and how they were having to make up a lot of words because there are certain, you know words that Exist today are things that exist today that didn't exist in the

01:40

Bible And so how would they make and some of these words they just make up and on my Duolingo It has something about Bira or something.

01:46

That's what so it's not Cerveza in Hebrew. It's something like Bira. I Just say

01:52

Cerveza Steve I last show brought up the

02:00

Message Bible and I'm gonna just read from a passage you tell me what it is celebrate God all day every day

02:06

I mean revel in him make it as clear as you can To all you meet that you're on their side working with them and not against them help them

02:15

See what the Masters about tour that he's about to arrive. He could show up at any minute Somewhere in second

02:23

Thessalonians Philippians chapter 4. I I mean, you know, it's so other than Pointing us toward the second coming.

02:35

I would have absolutely no idea. I mean that could be anything But didn't Bono sit down and talk to Eugene Peterson who did the message?

02:43

Yes, he did I mean Bono will sit down and talk to just about anybody, you know I mean, let me let me ask you this if you went to a church service you're on vacation and it's

02:52

Sunday so you go to Lord's Day worship service and Somebody was preaching and up on the

02:57

PowerPoint. The message version was put up there MSG For a verse, what would you what would go through your mind?

03:05

well, I'd say I'm going to probably talk to the pastor on the way out and just Just tell him

03:12

I'm allergic to MSG Makes me bloated Remember that was a big deal though for a while the saddleback kind of thing

03:23

Yeah, you'd find whatever version was kind of touchy -feely and you'd put that up.

03:28

So it'd be new living Well, it was actually like whatever said What you were thinking rather than?

03:35

Rather than trying to interpret the word accurately. It'd be like why doesn't the Bible interpret me?

03:40

Right? And so it's so I Don't I guess that would be like me Jesus right instead of I said

03:47

Jesus or X Jesus me Jesus Yeah, yeah self. Oh Jesus. Yeah self. Oh Jesus.

03:53

Yes Okay One more thing before the topic does your when you heard the word exe

03:59

Jesus for the first time? I assume you're a Christian Yeah, sure Once in a while,

04:05

I'll hear Victor Davis Hanson or Jordan Peterson talk about exe Jesus or something in a different context

04:11

But when they first said exe Jesus and you heard them say that did you think it was something about Jesus?

04:17

Yeah, I guarantee you I had absolutely no idea what the word meant I mean, I you know coming I I was about as Biblically stupid as anybody could be when

04:27

I got and people might still say well Steve you haven't got any brighter Baptist I mean, it's

04:37

Even if I knew various passages from the Bible, I just didn't you know, I I didn't know anything about Christianese so exe

04:46

Jesus would have been like completely foreign to me Herman who yeah, I'd feel do a series of that Yeah, Herman.

04:52

Yes. He did. I think Herman udix came from Hermes Right, and he was the great interpreter the the goddess of interpretation or the

05:00

God Meal that's right. All right today. Let's talk a little bit about Putting up walls around our building.

05:10

So no theological errors come in It's called separation where we're gonna hunker down Us for shut the door no more

05:20

Steve. What do we do? When certain Bible teachers say something that's off.

05:25

When do we say I just can't recommend him anymore I have to just disassociate myself from that orbit

05:33

What's what's our strategy when it comes to people online saying things is there a point or what's the point

05:40

So it's today's show are we gonna call it putting the fight back in fighting fundamentalists

05:46

Again, typical Baptist always up there Fighting no, here's the here's why

05:52

I bring up this question now because of social media we can see what people think and do and believe and say and we all like to hear preachers that Are really good preachers and lots of times they're more famous as it were not even intentionally trying to be famous So, when would you stop listening to someone and Furthermore, when would you start telling other people to stop listening?

06:15

So let's make it easy There's a famous teacher and he teaches something different than we do and he teaches infant baptism

06:22

Would you tell the people at BBC stop listening to the person who teaches infant baptism? No, okay how about if they are a

06:32

Congregational rule that they are pastor of congregational rule or Maybe having not an elder rule like we would but more like a

06:40

Presbyterian elder rule in a session Well, I kind of admire people who survive congregational rule I think I think

06:46

I think you know It's kind of like if you're a pastor and you've you survived like 10 years of that you deserve some kind of WWE Belt or something, you know and Steve here in New England what our listeners probably don't know if you're not from New England Congregational rule in New England is capital

07:04

C. It used to be like law of the land Literally, you had to have a congregational church in your town to be a town.

07:11

So, you know a Dunkin Donuts and a Congregational Church Dunkin Donuts founded in 1653

07:21

How about eschatology when someone says they're post mill pre mill now a mill could you attend those churches no

07:31

Yes, if somebody at church was listening to someone and they said that oh They're a mill or pre mill or something like that and they would say are they still okay to listen to?

07:40

Yeah, I mean, you know the the I guess the caveat I would make is if it's

07:46

I don't really care What it is if it's pre mill post mill a mill reconstruction or whatever

07:53

If I go there every Sunday and have to listen to You know, whether it's making the

08:00

Ten Commandments the law of the land stoning homosexuals or Whatever it is.

08:05

They're gonna going to do that week after week or even if it's just like okay, the rapture is Wednesday Oh, no, it's probably this coming

08:12

Tuesday. Well all that stuff I don't want to hear at all eschatology all the time. No matter what your position is.

08:19

I just don't but Steve Gerhardus Voss would say eschatology precedes soteriology.

08:26

Okay back to the other point, right? All right now you brought up something Steve that's important you're brought up in time, but then

08:32

Reconstruction and theonomy if someone at Bethlehem Bible Church comes to you are no co -listener writes in I love listening to this theonomist

08:39

Should I keep listening to the theonomist? No. Okay, so we've moved from okay

08:45

I know post mill is hot and trendy and all that but if people are post mill Reconstruction Theonomist and that's their kind of hobby horse, by the way that ends up being their hobby horse all too often

08:58

I I would say there's got to be somebody else you can listen to because it's going to wind up I mean, they might have a lot of really good things to say, but it's probably going to wind up influencing a lot of a lot more than it should it's going it's going to you know, it's like the like the chili powder

09:20

In your cornflakes. I mean, it's just it's just too much If it was somebody who said

09:26

I'm reading this Lorraine Bettner book Lorraine was a man and he wrote many books one was on kind of a

09:33

Christian theology, which is good I can't remember the name of it. He wrote one on Predestination what was it called the reform doctor and they said

09:43

I'm reading that book. We'd say great Yeah, great, and he wrote a book on post -millennial ism. So we're not against post -millennialists

09:51

We might disagree with their doctrine, but I would have no problem with somebody here saying I love Lorraine Bettner And I'm reading that book.

09:58

I mean you can learn a lot from you could you can learn a lot from You know BB Warfield or I mean there are men who hold

10:06

They have some quirky views about different things, you know But you can you could learn a lot from a lot of these godly men who've gone on to glory

10:15

I think maybe Warfield was more a mill than post mill, but there really wasn't a category.

10:21

It was either pre mill or post mill I was more about his He has some odd things with the

10:27

Trinity what you you know, you know, so oh So now that's where we're moving.

10:32

Okay way to go way to go Steve. That was a good little. Thank you Segway segway for a long time.

10:37

I spelled that SEGW a why in my notes Well Sad and then remember people writing segways.

10:46

Mm -hmm. Did you ever write a segway? No, I never did either I wonder if they'd be any fun. I don't know.

10:52

Maybe we could ask my neighbor. Oh As inside scoop there today on no compromise radio

11:03

I have Steve Cooley with me and we're talking a little bit about Pretty much if you're listening to our show and you're a layperson or if there are people at our church

11:11

You know at the church It's not our church the Lord's Church here and they say should I listen to this person and they are post male

11:19

I'm reading this book by so -and -so When are we going to tell them no pick somebody else.

11:25

So let's Talk a little bit about Trinitarian issues doctrine of God big deal no big deal plenty of room to Pretty big deal, you know,

11:38

I mean What if someone came to you and said I'm reading about this guy a reading this guy and he

11:48

Says in his book about the man Christ Jesus when he was on earth that he

11:56

Didn't you know do any of his divine? Prerogative he had divine prerogatives but he didn't use any of them and he kind of like cloaked himself and didn't do divine things or I don't even know how they say it.

12:08

It would be this kind of hyper canonic thing What if they're reading a book by someone who says something like that about the

12:15

God man? What would you say? I would say avoid Yeah, I I think there are certain

12:22

Certain Variants shall we say certain wrong views that I just they they they're just a time sink

12:33

They're not helpful in any way and When they go counter to Sound doctrine and the historical doctrine of the church, you know, what has been seen as Orthodox Confessional I would just say run put those books down read something better Right, there's good better best and if I could be honest, you know

12:56

That book may not even fall into the good category, right? If I'm if I'm thinking good better best

13:01

I can name You know half a dozen books off the top of my head or that are better on Christology than that one

13:06

So don't read that Steve. I think kind of what we're driving out here is If you've got a good doctrine of God good doctrine of soteriology

13:15

I personally don't care about a lot of the other little things that might happen whether it's pedo -baptism credo -baptism

13:23

Whether what their end times things are what their polity is I mean ultimately Jesus is

13:29

Lord of the church those things are to me I don't mean secondary doctrines, but they're

13:34

They're secondary for me to say. Oh, this is a this is a big deal Well, I think what it gets down to is something that you and I were talking about earlier off the air

13:44

Which is can I learn something from this person, right? and Something some doctrines just overshadow other things where it makes me in it makes it impossible for me to To read or to listen to somebody, you know, if I know they've got their doctrine of justification wrong.

14:07

I Have a real hard time than reading anything They might say about the law or about salvation or you know

14:14

And so it gets the point where I'm just like why would I even listen to that guy? why would I even read what he has to say because I You know,

14:22

I'm I'm going to have to be so hyper critical that unless it's for some kind of assignment

14:28

I don't want to read it. Well, let's just name names then John Piper if someone said to you

14:34

I'm attending Bethlehem Bible Church. I'm a member. I'm excited to learn and There's a new book on Providence by John Piper.

14:42

I haven't read it and let's just say it's 99 % great Maybe it's a hundred percent great.

14:48

Who knows? Would you want them to read that book knowing that his final justification stuff?

14:56

Is a problem I I mean the short answer is no

15:02

I would not you know, and I would I would rather they read somebody else on the same topic and I Mean there are things

15:11

About John Piper that I wish I could just steal, you know, and I and I think that's what people really value about him, you know his enthusiasm and his

15:23

Ability to speak plainly about a number of issues And certainly there's a winsomeness there

15:31

I And drama, but I but I think when it when it comes down to his

15:39

What's it what let's say wisdom in terms of you know Who he platforms and who he goes and speaks with and you know are in Wilson Yes, well and even down at the passion conferences when he was there with just outright, you know,

15:54

Christine Kane and other Heretics, I don't understand that, you know, and you could say well, he's just bringing light to the darkness

16:03

Okay. I mean, I I'm just not going to have other people Thinking that well

16:11

She's okay as a teacher and he's okay as a teacher because John Piper, you know was preaching right along with him

16:17

No, just no, don't do that As a pastor sometimes

16:24

I'll say and I know you'll say the same thing when we're thinking about different people and what they write and Say, would you have that guy come and preach for you?

16:31

Right? That's that's that was a question. We always had at seminary I couldn't trust I couldn't trust him because I've seen him get he's even confessed that he's gotten

16:41

Explicit instruction on what he was to do and then he decided not to do it And I Know just know

16:49

Steve. What about this? This is a little tangent, but that's okay because it's it's radio We like to do that and change things up We have a congregant.

16:58

Let's say then they they have the Providence book by Piper or Since we just brought that up or I brought that up and they have

17:07

David Jeremiah books, I Personally would rather have them read David Jeremiah than John Piper.

17:14

Well because his his errors are easier to discern You know and and he's pretty he's pretty obvious about right

17:25

So and and we kind of know he's not in a different camp I'm not calling him an unbeliever or anything like that But it's just more mainstream kind of bit like in the old days with Charles Stanley right or a

17:36

Chuck Swindoll Just you know, there's just kind of teaching and you know, they're just they're They're teaching as faithfully as they can.

17:43

I don't think that's any big deal for me. But when it's John Piper and he's Everybody thinks

17:49

Piper's the Calvinist. He's the five -pointer. Therefore. He's kind of this leader in the camp. He's not

17:55

I'd rather have them listen to a Calvary Chapel then Piper because at least we know

18:01

Calvary Chapel is Arminian no membership Low low -key charismatic stuff.

18:09

Does that make sense? Yes Yeah Because I think our tendency with somebody that we consider to be in our camp is to to let our walls down let our guard down, you know not be hyper discerning and smart and in fact,

18:22

I think The the obvious or the the opposite is true that we need to be even more discerning particularly with people

18:31

Like Piper So are there certain people Steve that when you when you hear your dog to hear their doctrines that that do you have any music?

18:38

Go through your mind when when they're teaching Man I started looking for the shark

18:48

All right, let's keep going eternal functional subordination or eternal subordination of the

18:54

Sun EFS ESS Can you give us kind of just a sketch on some of the components of those people that think

19:04

What they believe and then we'll talk about Should we jettison that or what? Well, the basic idea is that there's some sort of Hierarchy in the

19:12

Trinity and it's eternal Right. I mean if you want to say that the Sun in his incarnation his humanity

19:21

Was subordinate to the father Well, I think you can certainly see that and teach that right out of the scripture if you want to say that the

19:29

Sun from all eternity was less than the father well, and that's what the

19:36

EFS ESS crowd says that he was kind of You know taking orders

19:43

From the father in eternity past that shorthand for it, but wrong. That's just wrong.

19:49

It's heretical That was done. I I mean, it's it's been brought up.

19:54

It's been recycled. It's been repackaged That's always been a problem that the church has had, you know going back to their early days

20:01

I the first time it was declared, you know a dead letter. There was declared heresy was in Council of Nicaea 325

20:10

But it came back and had to be dealt with again in 387 and you know on and on it goes and People are still trying to teach that today

20:19

Steve I'm thinking now big picture when you are at a local church and you're influenced by social media and print press and advertisement and PNR catalogs and Reformation heritage books and Westminster books and Christian book discounters, etc, etc

20:37

Amazon books Should you kind of have a strategy and say to yourself we love our pastor.

20:44

We love our elders pastors They Teaching the

20:49

Bible faithfully. They keep quoting Machen they keep quoting Calvin.

20:55

They keep quoting Jerry Bridges, I think I should probably read those same people what

21:01

I guess here's what I'm driving at Why doesn't pastor Mike? Why doesn't pastor Steve ever quote positively

21:07

John Piper? Why don't they quote Greg Bonson? Positively What is that his first name

21:14

Greg Bonson? It was great. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, Greg Oh, why aren't they why aren't they saying positive things about Doug Wilson?

21:23

Why why is it negative or why are they just avoiding it? Don't you think it'd be a good strategy for people at the church?

21:28

I think it would be very good and you know, sometimes people will say, you know I noticed we don't have any books by so -and -so, you know, why is that and I'm happy to answer that question

21:38

Why don't we push? John Piper That's that's a very easy question

21:44

And you know It's not like because John Piper's never done anything good because I can I can hold up books and go, you know

21:50

And I really like this book, you know, the supremacy of God and preaching It's not a how -to but it kind of gets you in the right mindset about Preaching and I think that's fine

22:01

Or what about his Romans 9 dissertation? Has some really good information there in Romans 9 and I think have

22:08

I benefited the answers? Yes, but I'm trying to think as a pastor That's the point Just how am

22:14

I? How am I gonna tell somebody? Oh, here's a book and by the way future grace Watch out for this this this this this yes and and and and and don't be fooled by his book to refute

22:24

NT right because he doesn't believe in justification like we do at the very I just Again, you know,

22:31

I think if I'm reading it if it's an academic assignment, you know, or there's some

22:37

Exceptional reason for me to read it. Okay, fine because I I kind of know what

22:43

I'm looking for, but I think for the For the layperson I'd be like don't don't do that.

22:49

You know There's just too much to jump over to you know, it's like an obstacle course.

22:56

Why would you do that? So on the show today we started off by saying of course There's charity and there's an openness in a good way to read all kinds of different Christian writers from different backgrounds

23:08

We didn't mention JC Ryle, but you think oh we want to read Anglicans, right?

23:13

I I think of 1662 come a book of prayer other things. We don't have to believe exactly what people

23:21

Believe in order to benefit from them So there's the charity there But pretty soon it starts to narrow a little bit when it comes to folks at the church because we're supposed to be shepherds

23:31

We're supposed to say watch out for this and watch out for that But what happened Steve is we're just two guys here in a town of 7 ,000 people

23:40

And we don't have the platform that John Piper does or Francis Chan or somebody like that So, how can we be right when those guys are who they are?

23:48

Yeah, you don't know anything Have you sold half a million books? No. No, I haven't how big's your radio station?

23:55

Yeah, how many stations are you on how many churches have you planted? You know, how many conferences have you spoken at where thousands of people were there buying your t -shirts?

24:05

Okay, I think for the most part we recommend and read probably

24:10

Presbyterians. Don't you think? it's a probably More Presbyterians than not are there are there some

24:18

Baptist around that kind of have figured things out a little bit What's that guy's name Steve Blyster?

24:25

Steve yeah, yeah, Steve Steve Munchkin. No Steve Meister. That's right Rich Barcellos is writing things

24:32

Jim Renahan. They're all kind of the federalism 1689 branch I don't agree with all the little details of this that of the other but I love those guys.

24:41

I'm glad they're around So there are some Baptist John Gill is a

24:46

Baptist. I just picked up his systematic theology. I think that'll be be good I think it will be good because Matthew Barrett's been quoting him a lot in the simply

24:55

Trinity So there's another Baptist for you. Oh, I know who else are the other Baptist the styling

25:00

Baptist? I don't know what I mean We'd have to sit here and think about it a little bit, but there are some

25:06

Baptists. All right, Pat Avendroth's a Baptist Yeah so far Well You know what to just to just be totally fair I said something to him in a text or the other day and he said he said

25:25

I Said something about Presbyterians and he goes not enough water, you know, so he's he's fun

25:33

So the show today here's what we wanted to try to accomplish There are so many different theological positions out there that we have to just be aware of them and We can say yes to many things, but there are a few things we have to say no to yes and we're saying no to if you reject the classical view of God that we see in Nicaea and Chalcedon and Athanasius Creed if you're off on that then we say to our congregants.

26:01

I wouldn't read that. It's not good for you. Correct, right? You know, they there are a lot of implications to getting that wrong

26:09

Secondly, if you get justification wrong Lee and why don't mean just initial justification and you're putting back in a position of favor

26:18

With God I'm talking about justification If you get that wrong Which leads all the way to the end to no condemnation on Judgment Day if you get sola fide wrong

26:27

And you maybe get it right other places, but you teach final justification we say we wouldn't read that person, right or how about the

26:38

Imputation of the act of obedience of Christ that is to say what he did his perfect life some people say that you don't get that credited to you as a believer and I'm That's Roman Catholicism to me.

26:51

I mean, that's that's errant theology. It's bad. Okay, so that's good So I think so far on the show we've established there's many things we do agree with We would say to folks at the church, you know what their theonomist

27:02

I wouldn't their EFS ESS I wouldn't they're off on sola fide. I Wouldn't they're off on the active obedience of Christ.

27:13

Yeah, isn't there some cult in Colorado now? That's trying to say, you know We're gonna give you 50 grand if you can come and prove the point against active obedience or for active obedience

27:23

They're against it. I don't know but that sounds like a good show They're the ones that I don't want to give them much publicity

27:29

But I think they went to the Shepherd's Conference and they were handing out a little They've called out Pat I think by name

27:35

But I mean, what are you gonna do go there and they're gonna make up the rules They're not giving their money to anybody wrestling to the ground

27:44

So we don't want to be fundamentalist and say unless you believe in what we believe exactly let's say 1689

27:50

Everybody else is awful. And I think we see some very kind Presbyterians Who realize that we're

27:56

Baptist and they have certainly been nice and kind to us Nice, I'm gonna be nice and kind to the

28:03

PCA OPC You are see people. We're not gonna be nice to them. Not at all

28:10

And can you think of anything else that might make you say hmm, we probably shouldn't recommend that person

28:16

Any kind of big things that are happening in light of today's? Theological news.

28:22

Well, I didn't really sit and think about this I know I gave you no time. Yeah, so I I don't know but I mean

28:28

I I would again, you know, the Active obedience of Christ the imputation of that.

28:33

I think that is a big issue and One that's probably a lot more widespread than some even some of these others.

28:41

Okay, good I like that pastor Steve Cooley and Mike Abendroth here on no compromise Radio ministry.

28:46

I have all these different buttons here and you have to try to figure out the buttons in this new mixer

28:53

Steve I'm gonna be gone this summer for a while and you're gonna take over for me as you faithfully do every year You're probably gonna be in the book of Acts.

28:59

Do you think you want to record some shows? I don't know. Is this like are you putting pressure on me right now on the air?

29:05

Yes, I'm gonna say if you'd like pastor Steve to do some shows. Why don't you write me? I think it's actually

29:11

Steve at no compromise radio or is it TMS Steve Tuesday guy Steve? I don't know I never get any no -co mail, so You remember when

29:19

Ray Johnson used to answer all the yes That was back in the day when we were a discernment ministry and a lot of people were asking questions.