July 31, 2009 Show: Harold Camping Reviews His Debate with James White

Program is a paid program.

The views and opinions expressed on the show are those of the host and guests and not necessarily the views of staff and

management of WNYG.

Iron Sharpens Iron brought.

To you in part by Buttafuoco and Associates Attorneys at Law.

Welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron, the only daily live broadcast in the New York metropolitan and

greater Long Island area on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians

have a platform to address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and

directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you,

the listener, with your own questions.

And now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Long Island, New York, Connecticut.

And those listening internationally over the internet.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Friday.

Today is day number two of listener calls.

We are receiving calls from you, the listeners, regarding the recent debate between Harold

Camping and Dr. James R. White on the theme, Has the Church Age Ended?

Harold Camping, founder and president of Family Radio, just recently debated Dr. James R. White of

Alpha Omega Ministries.

Actually, it was just this past Tuesday and Wednesday.

They had a debate on that subject, Has the Church Age Ended?

Yesterday we took live phone calls from Dr. James R. White alone and

today we will take live phone calls for Mr. Harold Camping alone and we are

delighted and honored that Mr. Camping has graciously accepted our invitation to be on

today's programs, today's program to seek to answer your questions.

The number that you should call to ask a question of Mr. Harold Camping

is 877 -753 -3341.

877 -753 -3341.

Whether you agree with Mr. Camping or disagree, you are free to call in.

We will not tolerate any insults or arguing.

Do not speak over Mr. Camping.

We want you to ask a brief question and then listen to your answer over the internet or the

radio.

877 -753 -3341.

877 -753 -3341.

We'll be right back with Mr. Harold Camping of Family Radio and.

Your phone calls after these messages, so don't go away.

My

name is Kristen Buttafuoco.

My father.

Is Dan Buttafuoco of Buttafuoco and Associates, the personal injury lawyers.

I've seen firsthand the time, love, and dedication that my dad puts into each and every case.

His firm is dedicated to helping victims of accident and medical malpractice.

It was his passion for his clients that inspired me to pursue a law career of my own.

He has over 20 years of experience, so he knows exactly what to do for you.

If you or a loved one have been injured, please call my dad at 1 -800 -669 -HURT.

That's 1 -800 -669 -HURT.

I know he will help you, just as he's helped thousands of other victims rebuild their lives.

Hopefully one day I will be able to touch people's lives as my father and his staff have.

So call Buttafuoco and Associates at 1 -800 -669 -HURT and let them fight for you.

1 -800 -669 -HURT.

We help accident victims rebuild their lives.

Christian Radio, WNYG, and the Iron Sharpens Iron broadcast are honored to welcome

BatteryDepot .com to our family of advertisers.

BatteryDepot .com provides you with an affordable, easy way to quickly get almost any kind of

battery you need without ever leaving your home.

Go to BatteryDepot .com whenever you need a camcorder battery, a cell phone battery, a

cordless phone battery, a digital camera battery, a laptop battery, a power tool

battery, or nearly any other kind of battery for your home or industry.

99 % of all orders are shipped within 48 hours.

Take advantage of their 99 cent shipping charge now while this special discount is still available.

Visit BatteryDepot .com or call toll

-free at 1 -866 -403 -3768.

That's 1 -866 -403 -3768.

BatteryDepot .com's prices are very competitive, and further discounts for multiple orders and

tax -exempt organizations are available.

Visit BatteryDepot .com now or

call 1 -866 -403 -3768.

1 -866 -403 -3768.

BatteryDepot .com.

The spirit of New York, WNYG.

Welcome back, this is Chris Zarnes, and if you've just tuned us in, today is the day we are

taking listener phone calls for Mr. Harold Camping of Family Radio.

For those of you who missed the two -day debate that took place on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week

between Dr. James R. White and Harold Camping on the theme, Has the Church Age Ended?,

we urge you to listen to those two days of debate on MP3, which is

available at the AOMIN .org website, www

.AOMIN .org, or at the Iron Sharpens Iron website, sharpens

.org, S -H -A -R -P -E -N -S .org, and also yesterday we took live

phone calls from our listeners for Dr. James R. White, and today we are giving

Mr. Camping the final word and taking phone calls

for him at 877 -753 -3341, 877 -753 -3341, and we do once

again want to thank BatteryDepot .com, the law firm of Buttafuoco Associates,

and the publishers of the New American Standard Bible Update for making this debate possible.

Well, first of all, let me welcome you to the program again, Mr. Harold Camping.

Hello, Mr. Camping.

Yeah,

it's

great to have you back on the program, and why don't you give our listeners a brief assessment of the

debate, or...

Can you hear me now, Mr. Camping?

I can hear you.

Well, until we get this resolved, perhaps, Mr. Camping, you can let me know when you do hear me.

Our phone number is 877 -753 -3341, 877

-753 -3341.

I can't hear you.

We're going to have to work out these bugs.

I'm not sure why this is happening, but you can feel free to call in whether you

agree with Mr. Camping, whether you disagree with him, but please keep your questions brief.

We do not want preachers or lecturers.

This is Rich in Phoenix, and we're having a situation here where we're getting mixed minus through.

I'd like to let the engineer know, if he could, to please

check into that, because we are getting a full mix from him.

It's actually looping down.

I can see my indicator showing it, and if they can clear up that mixed minus situation, we'll get that nice, clean

connection that we had the other day.

Oh, so this is actually coming from the Family Radio Studio?

I believe it is, yes.

Okay.

We'll give it another shot here, okay?

By the way, while we're working this out, I just briefly want to announce that

on Saturday, September 19th, there's going to be a one -man play starring Roger Nelson, who is a

professional Christian actor, winner of the International Christian Visual Media's Crown Award for

Best Actor.

He is going to be starring in a one -man play on the life and ministry of John Wesley called The Man

from Aldersgate.

This is going to be held at Freedom Chapel International Worship Center on Broadway.

That's Route 110 in Amityville, Long Island.

Tickets are $20 a piece and $15 a piece for groups of 20 or more.

This is a fundraiser for the Timothy Hill Children's Ranch, a home for abused and abandoned children in

Riverhead, Long Island.

Long Island Teen Challenge, which is a ministry for teenagers and

young adults who are drug and alcohol abusers, and Long Island

Citizens for Community Values, which is a very important organization trying to keep

pornographic stores and strip clubs and things like that out of residential areas and away from

schools and so forth.

But those three charities are going to receive the benefit from all the profits.

I believe we've cleared the problem up.

Okay, great.

I just want to give you the phone number real quick.

For information on this one -man play on the life and ministry of John Wesley,

call 631 -789 -5050, 631 -789 -5050 or 631 -321 -7070, 631 -321

-7070.

Mr. Camping, can you hear me now?

I do.

That's great.

And once again, our phone number is 877 -753 -3341 for our listeners to

call.

Mr. Camping, if you could give us a brief overview.

Of this

debate

that

we've

been

having

on

the

end of

the

church

age.

Recognizing

17 David

guided

it

that he made in

May

21, and

we've...

Before

we go

to

our

callers,

I just

wanted

to ask

you.

Two questions for clarification.

Do you believe that those who are still within the church, even those that

are faithful to the doctrines of sovereign grace, the teachings that Family Radio had at one

time for many years taught, do you believe that those within the church when.

Christ returns are going to be damned for eternity?

The problem is,

I

don't

know

that if you

are

trusting

in

anything

at all is

between

anymore than it

begins

without.

What

happens.

When people who you believe are true and faithful Christians, what do they do when they gather

now that the church, in your opinion, is not in existence?

Obviously, there's no ordinances.

How do

you

conduct

discipline

and so on?

I teach

their

organization...

Let's go to our phone calls.

Rich, who's waiting online?

First, our first caller is Francis in New York.

Francis, welcome to Iron Trip and Zion.

Thank you.

Hello, Mr. Camping.

I appreciate your many years of Bible study.

Fairly simple biblical question that I think has a bearing on this topic.

My question is this.

Who is, according to scripture, who is Moses' father?

And the reason I ask is that scripture tells us in four verses the particular name of a particular.

Person,

Amram.

Thank

you,

Francis.

And

who's

our

next

call,

Rich?

All right, we're not quite ready.

You've got to screen another one.

Okay.

Just out of curiosity, Mr. Camping, since you believe that Christ

is coming, returning in 2011, coming up very quickly,

and the scriptures clearly teach that those who are in heaven rejoicing and worshipping Christ

are from out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

Do you believe that every single tribe and tongue is going to know, or at

least have heard, I should say, the gospel prior to Christ's return within the next two years?

Because I know missionaries who know that there are unevangelized tribes that are still in existence.

They

became

many

people.

But

do you

believe

that

those

who, as

you said,

who are the

elect, who.

Will bow down and cry for mercy, will they specifically, as most

Christians believe, have to cry out to Christ, Jesus, for mercy and trust in

his atonement?

Or do you have a view that people can be saved by Christ without

specifically knowing him?

Well,

yes,

they

can

get

paid

for

it.

We

get

to the

letter.

That is

it.

Every

individual.

Well, so in other words,

you're saying you make no distinction between

believers in the.

Old covenant and those in the new, and the old covenant, even though Christ, as Christians, have

always believed that Christ has always existed,

and eternity passed, and so on.

But he was not in the flesh on earth until, obviously, the new

covenant, and he was not known by the name of Jesus Christ until then.

So even today, you would say that somebody could.

Be ignorant of Christ and still be saved.

When we talk about the old and new covenant, first

of all,

we have to

go

to

break

right now,

and

when

we

return, we

will

take

our.

Listener phone calls.

Our number is 877 -753 -3341, and it's toll

-free, 877 -753 -3341.

Whether you agree with Mr. Camping or disagree, we welcome your phone calls, but please, we do not want sermons or

lectures.

We want brief questions, and no arguing or mockery will be tolerated.

877 -753 -3341 is the number, and we'll be right back.

The New American Standard Bible has been widely embraced as the most literally accurate English translation from the original

languages.

Millions of people, students, scholars, pastors, missionaries, and laypersons alike trust the NASB,

learning from it and applying it to the challenges of their everyday lives.

Discover what the original text says word for word.

The New American Standard Bible has been updated, increasing clarity and readability.

Vocabulary, grammar, and sentence structure were carefully reviewed for greater understanding and smoother reading.

In perfecting the updated NASB, more than 20 translators spent nearly three years scrutinizing the

NASB in order to modernize it and maintain it in accordance with the most recent research on the oldest and best

manuscripts.

Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today.

For more details on the most literal Bible translation that is now more readable, visit www

.nasbible .com.

That's www .nasbible .com.

Many times people come to our office, they don't even have the means to get their medical.

Situation addressed.

Dan Barufugo is a different kind of personal injury attorney.

To bring a.

Large personal injury case, the attorney has to have financial resources to lay out on behalf of the client.

No attorney should ever ask you for money for expenses, and yet I know that it's done in this business.

We don't do it.

We lay out as much as fifty, sixty thousand dollars of our own money on a case, and we collect that back at the end.

So that's proof that we believe in the case, and if an attorney isn't willing to do that, then find another attorney.

It's absolutely nothing ethically wrong with contacting me if you have another attorney.

Under New York law, you can change attorneys at any time, as often as you like, without penalty.

When you have an injury resulting.

From somebody else's negligence, call Dan Barufugo.

There are no upfront fees.

The only fee is after you win your case.

For a free consultation, call the law offices of Dan Barufugo at 1 -800

-NOW -HURT.

Christian Radio, WNYG, and the Iron Sharpens Iron broadcast are honored to welcome

BatteryDepot .com to our family of advertisers.

BatteryDepot .com provides you with an affordable, easy way to quickly get almost any kind of

battery you need without ever leaving your home.

Go to BatteryDepot .com whenever you need a camcorder battery, a cell phone battery, a

cordless phone battery, a digital camera battery, a laptop battery, a power tool

battery, or nearly any other kind of battery for your home or industry.

99 % of all orders are shipped within 48 hours.

Take advantage of their 99 -cent shipping charge now while this special discount is still available.

Visit BatteryDepot .com or

call toll -free at 1 -866 -403 -3768.

That's 1 -866 -403 -3768.

BatteryDepot .com's prices are very competitive, and further discounts for multiple orders and

tax -exempt organizations are available.

Visit BatteryDepot .com

now or call 1 -866 -403 -3768.

1 -866 -403 -3768.

BatteryDepot .com.

The spirit of New York, WNYG.

Welcome back.

This is our day for listener phone calls for Harold Camping of Family Radio.

And Rich, who is our second call?

Chris, we've got James in New York.

James, welcome to Iron Sherpa's Iron.

Hello.

Yes.

Yes, hello.

Mr. Camping.

Mr. Camping, do you hear our caller?

I do not hear him.

Can he read Jeremiah 25 verse 10?

Did you hear that, Mr. Camping?

Jeremiah 25 verse 10.

Can

you

read

that?

Let's

look at

that,

Jeremiah.

Three

years.

That's

Satan.

That's

a big...

Be

drunken.

So

that

anybody,

maybe,

maybe, like

the

Ninevites,

might

become

a...

Thank

you for

your

call,.

James.

Who's our next call, Rich?

First, we've got Art in Sacramento, California.

Welcome to Iron.

Sherpa's Iron, Art.

Thank you.

Yes, I have one quick comment and one question, real quick.

The comment is, yesterday, Jewish calendars,

and certainly, sure enough, May 21st, 2011,

17th day of the second month, just as Noah went into the ark on the

17th day of the second month.

People out there, check it out for yourselves.

This is true.

And my question is, Mr. Camping,

on 2 Peter 1 20, no prophecy

interpretation, that is of the same sentence 19,

the previous verse.

It's all one sentence.

And Mr. White said that no prophecy of the

private interpretation.

He was saying that...

Yeah, we can still hear you.

Okay.

He said that no, it's not subject, or he said that it's

not subject to the prophet's own interpretation, as I understand.

And I think he was referring that to verse 21.

But that can't be, because it's the same sentence as verse 19, and

it's talking about the prophecy that we already have.

So it is the interpretation of the word of God that we already have, and not what

God is revealing, and not what God is adding to the Bible through new prophecy.

Is this correct?

And could you give us a more clear.

Understanding of that?

Thank you.

Thank you, Art.

If you could listen over the internet, that'd be.

Great.

Yeah, well, the

fact is,

that he had not,

and

we get the

first,

that

doesn't

mean

that that cannot be adjusted

subject to us.

And then

he

gives us

these

fantastic

days from May 21st,

that indeed we have

come...

Very much, and who's our next caller, Rich?

Chris, we've got Donna.

Driving from Alabama to Florida.

Wow, should you be on the phone while you're driving?

Welcome, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron, Donna.

Thank you.

Mr. Camping, the Lord, right now it's raining very heavy, in case you're

hearing that.

Mr. Camping, the Lord led through his word, he saved me back in 1982.

And through his word, he convicted me to leave the Catholic Church.

And he convicted me that he could teach me through his Holy Spirit

in his word.

And by his electing sovereign grace, he opened my eyes to see God's work of salvation

in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ on my behalf.

Shortly afterwards, the Lord led me to tune into family radio, and I learned from you how to use a

concordance and be able to compare scriptures with scriptures.

I heartily thank you for that.

Back in those days, you were being careful with using words in their context.

You stressed that everything must come from the Bible.

I have listened to you the two days of debate, and several things leap out at me.

Your closing admonition to us was, I hope that people will remember that there

are 365 .2422 days, and do their own arithmetic, multiplying

1978, and what do they get, and breaking that down.

And then you'll find that it all ties in perfectly with the Bible.

Well, first of all, what I noticed was that 365 .2422 is not found

in the Bible, and 1978 is not found in the Bible either.

Then you want us to further factor this.

Yes, the Lord has numbers in the Bible, and yes, in certain places he factors them, but

he does the work.

And then he opens our eyes to see certain patterns, such as either judgment or mercy for the number five,

depending on the context.

But here in the calendar is the work of our hands, first originating with you, Mr. Camping.

You keep stressing, check out our work.

The Bible's crystal clear that we are not to be depending on the works of our own hands, or we are under God's wrath.

We're to depend solely on the work of Christ and what he has written.

Mathematical computations are not comparing spiritual with spiritual.

It is a talent, not spiritual discernment.

That ability is not given to all, especially the mentally limited.

However, the mentally limited are not spiritually limited if they are one of God's elect, and they will see and hear the

work of Jesus Christ as the word is read or heard by them.

Donna, we need to have a question here, please.

Yes, yes, I do.

But I have to just state these.

Donna, Mr. Camping is trying to respond to you.

Let

me

respond

to you

now.

Five

years

to

say

that.

Thank

you,

Donna

and

Rich.

Who's

our

next call?

Our next caller is Jill in Los Angeles, California.

Jill, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron.

Thank you.

Yes, if you could please be brief this time.

Mr. Camping is,.

Can he please look at Isaiah 29

verses 13 to 16?

29.

And while he's looking that up, what's your question?

While he's looking that up, what's your question?

We lost her, Chris.

Oh, we did.

Okay.

She'll

be a

theme that

made it.

He made ideas rather than a

Bible.

Do we take our next call?

Yes.

Who's the next caller, Rich?

And we've got Tony on Long Island, Chris.

Tony, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron.

Thank you, Mr. Arms.

And Mr. Camping,.

I have a question for you.

I'm sure you have read it.

Just one statement that Jesus himself makes after talking about the end.

He says, but on that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only.

How do you, how do you justify that?

Jesus himself said that.

And how could you actually say that, you know, that you have, you know, a day and time.

Great question, Tony.

Well, that question is, uh, in agreement.

I mean, that church,

beginning

with

the

apostle

to be

giving

it to

them, all

kinds

of

things

going to be open.

It's sealed.

And he had the authority.

It was actually a

church day.

But

once

the church

age was

spinning

that

he, they

don't

know that

ready.

They will,

but

you're

not,

cause

we

have

to

live, cry to God

for

when my church

and

they

know nothing

we've

spent

in the Bible, but cry time, he

would open complicated

things.

Even

I've

ever

done fashion.

And that is like

having another God, Mr. Camping.

Uh, we're running out of time rapidly before we go to our next call, or just let us ask a brief question of my own from

first Corinthians 11, uh, verse 26.

Uh, we read, uh, we read.

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until

he comes.

Now, obviously, since the church, in your opinion, doesn't exist now, how do Christians do that until.

He

comes

when he

hasn't

come yet?

Well, it is

really,

you know,

the salvation will be completed because

let's, sorry, let's take

one more caller.

Uh, Rich, who's the next one online?

Uh, this call is James in New York.

Yes.

James.

Yes.

Um, I called earlier about Jeremiah 25, uh, relation no

more at all in the,

at all at the

end of the world.

Thanks James.

And your answer finally, Mr.

Camping.

Uh, what

was

the

question?

I

taught

the teacher.

Well,

thank

you

very much,

Mr.

Camping.

For graciously accepting our invitation to participate in the debate and on today's program.

And I want to thank all of our listeners today, especially those who called in and I want to thank you for your

politeness and so on.

And, uh, I want to thank, uh, everybody involved in this program, including the staff

of WNYG radio, uh, Alpha Omega ministries and family radio for making this

for last four days, a success for those of you who missed, uh, the two day

debate.

You can hear those, uh, two days on free downloadable MP3 at www dot a O M

I N dot O R G a O M as in Michael I N as in Nancy dot O R G.

And you can also hear them on the iron sharpens iron website, sharpens .org S H A R P

E N S dot O R G.

And, uh, we, uh, also we'll have the MP3s of the yesterday, uh,

yesterday's program and today where we took calls from our listeners for Dr. James R. White and Mr.

Harold Camping.

I.