July 31, 2009 Show: Harold Camping Reviews His Debate with James White

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon, Long Island, New York, Connecticut.

And those listening internationally over the internet. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Friday. Today is day number two of listener calls. We are receiving calls from you, the listeners, regarding the recent debate between Harold Camping and Dr. James R. White on the theme, Has the Church Age Ended?

Harold Camping, founder and president of Family Radio, just recently debated Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Actually, it was just this past Tuesday and Wednesday. They had a debate on that subject, Has the Church Age Ended?

Yesterday we took live phone calls from Dr. James R. White alone and today we will take live phone calls for Mr. Harold Camping alone and we are delighted and honored that Mr. Camping has graciously accepted our invitation to be on today's programs, today's program to seek to answer your questions.

The number that you should call to ask a question of Mr. Harold Camping is 877 -753 -3341. 877 -753 -3341. Whether you agree with Mr. Camping or disagree, you are free to call in. We will not tolerate any insults or arguing.

Do not speak over Mr. Camping. We want you to ask a brief question and then listen to your answer over the internet or the radio. 877 -753 -3341. 877 -753 -3341. We'll be right back with Mr. Harold Camping of Family Radio and.

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1 -866 -403 -3768. BatteryDepot .com. The spirit of New York, WNYG. Welcome back, this is Chris Zarnes, and if you've just tuned us in, today is the day we are taking listener phone calls for Mr. Harold Camping of Family Radio.

For those of you who missed the two-day debate that took place on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week between Dr. James R. White and Harold Camping on the theme, Has the Church Age Ended?, we urge you to listen to those two days of debate on MP3, which is available at the AOMIN .org website, www .AOMIN .org, or at the Iron Sharpens Iron website, sharpens .org, S-H-A-R-P-E-N-S .org, and also yesterday we took live phone calls from our listeners for Dr. James R. White, and today we are giving Mr. Camping the final word and taking phone calls for him at 877 -753 -3341, 877 -753 -3341, and we do once again want to thank BatteryDepot .com, the law firm of Buttafuoco Associates, and the publishers of the New American Standard Bible Update for making this debate possible.

The End of the Church Age Debate and Harold Camping's View

Well, first of all, let me welcome you to the program again, Mr. Harold Camping. Hello, Mr. Camping. Yeah, it's great to have you back on the program, and why don't you give our listeners a brief assessment of the debate, or...

Can you hear me now, Mr. Camping? I can hear you. Well, until we get this resolved, perhaps, Mr. Camping, you can let me know when you do hear me. Our phone number is 877 -753 -3341, 877 -753 -3341. I can't hear you.

We're going to have to work out these bugs. I'm not sure why this is happening, but you can feel free to call in whether you agree with Mr. Camping, whether you disagree with him, but please keep your questions brief.

We do not want preachers or lecturers. This is Rich in Phoenix, and we're having a situation here where we're getting mixed minus through. I'd like to let the engineer know, if he could, to please check into that, because we are getting a full mix from him.

It's actually looping down. I can see my indicator showing it, and if they can clear up that mixed minus situation, we'll get that nice, clean connection that we had the other day. Oh, so this is actually coming from the Family Radio Studio?

I believe it is, yes. Okay. We'll give it another shot here, okay? By the way, while we're working this out, I just briefly want to announce that on Saturday, September 19th, there's going to be a one-man play starring Roger Nelson, who is a professional Christian actor, winner of the International Christian Visual Media's Crown Award for Best Actor.

He is going to be starring in a one-man play on the life and ministry of John Wesley called The Man from Aldersgate. This is going to be held at Freedom Chapel International Worship Center on Broadway.

That's Route 110 in Amityville, Long Island. Tickets are $20 a piece and $15 a piece for groups of 20 or more. This is a fundraiser for the Timothy Hill Children's Ranch, a home for abused and abandoned children in Riverhead, Long Island.

Long Island Teen Challenge, which is a ministry for teenagers and young adults who are drug and alcohol abusers, and Long Island Citizens for Community Values, which is a very important organization trying to keep pornographic stores and strip clubs and things like that out of residential areas and away from schools and so forth.

But those three charities are going to receive the benefit from all the profits. I believe we've cleared the problem up. Okay, great. I just want to give you the phone number real quick. For information on this one-man play on the life and ministry of John Wesley, call 631 -789 -5050, 631 -789 -5050 or 631 -321 -7070, 631 -321 -7070.

Mr. Camping, can you hear me now? I do. That's great. And once again, our phone number is 877 -753 -3341 for our listeners to call. Mr. Camping, if you could give us a brief overview.

Of this debate that we've been having on the end of the church age. Recognizing 17 David guided it that he made in May 21, and we've... Before we go to our callers, I just wanted to ask you.

Two questions for clarification. Do you believe that those who are still within the church, even those that are faithful to the doctrines of sovereign grace, the teachings that Family Radio had at one time for many years taught, do you believe that those within the church when.

Christ returns are going to be damned for eternity? The problem is, I don't know that if you are trusting in anything at all is between anymore than it begins without. What happens.

When people who you believe are true and faithful Christians, what do they do when they gather now that the church, in your opinion, is not in existence? Obviously, there's no ordinances.

How do you conduct discipline and so on? I teach their organization...

Let's go to our phone calls. Rich, who's waiting online? First, our first caller is Francis in New York. Francis, welcome to Iron Trip and Zion. Thank you. Hello, Mr. Camping. I appreciate your many years of Bible study.

Fairly simple biblical question that I think has a bearing on this topic. My question is this. Who is, according to scripture, who is Moses' father? And the reason I ask is that scripture tells us in four verses the particular name of a particular.

Person, Amram. Thank you, Francis. And who's our next call, Rich?

All right, we're not quite ready. You've got to screen another one. Okay. Just out of curiosity, Mr. Camping, since you believe that Christ is coming, returning in 2011, coming up very quickly, and the scriptures clearly teach that those who are in heaven rejoicing and worshipping Christ are from out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

Do you believe that every single tribe and tongue is going to know, or at least have heard, I should say, the gospel prior to Christ's return within the next two years? Because I know missionaries who know that there are unevangelized tribes that are still in existence.

They became many people. But do you believe that those who, as you said, who are the elect, who.

Will bow down and cry for mercy, will they specifically, as most Christians believe, have to cry out to Christ, Jesus, for mercy and trust in his atonement? Or do you have a view that people can be saved by Christ without specifically knowing him?

Well, yes, they can get paid for it. We get to the letter. That is it. Every individual. Well, so in other words, you're saying you make no distinction between believers in the.

Old covenant and those in the new, and the old covenant, even though Christ, as Christians, have always believed that Christ has always existed, and eternity passed, and so on. But he was not in the flesh on earth until, obviously, the new covenant, and he was not known by the name of Jesus Christ until then.

So even today, you would say that somebody could.

Be ignorant of Christ and still be saved. When we talk about the old and new covenant, first of all, we have to go to break right now, and when we return, we will take our.

Listener phone calls. Our number is 877 -753 -3341, and it's toll-free, 877 -753 -3341. Whether you agree with Mr. Camping or disagree, we welcome your phone calls, but please, we do not want sermons or lectures.

We want brief questions, and no arguing or mockery will be tolerated. 877 -753 -3341 is the number, and we'll be right back.

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1 -866 -403 -3768. BatteryDepot .com. The spirit of New York, WNYG. Welcome back. This is our day for listener phone calls for Harold Camping of Family Radio. And Rich, who is our second call? Chris, we've got James in New York.

James, welcome to Iron Sherpa's Iron. Hello. Yes. Yes, hello. Mr. Camping. Mr. Camping, do you hear our caller?

I do not hear him. Can he read Jeremiah 25 verse 10? Did you hear that, Mr. Camping? Jeremiah 25 verse 10. Can you read that? Let's look at that, Jeremiah. Three years. That's Satan. That's a big... Be drunken.

So that anybody, maybe, maybe, like the Ninevites, might become a... Thank you for your call,.

James. Who's our next call, Rich? First, we've got Art in Sacramento, California. Welcome to Iron.

Sherpa's Iron, Art. Thank you. Yes, I have one quick comment and one question, real quick. The comment is, yesterday, Jewish calendars, and certainly, sure enough, May 21st, 2011, 17th day of the second month, just as Noah went into the ark on the 17th day of the second month.

People out there, check it out for yourselves. This is true. And my question is, Mr. Camping, on 2 Peter 1 20, no prophecy interpretation, that is of the same sentence 19, the previous verse. It's all one sentence.

And Mr. White said that no prophecy of the private interpretation. He was saying that... Yeah, we can still hear you. Okay. He said that no, it's not subject, or he said that it's not subject to the prophet's own interpretation, as I understand.

And I think he was referring that to verse 21. But that can't be, because it's the same sentence as verse 19, and it's talking about the prophecy that we already have. So it is the interpretation of the word of God that we already have, and not what God is revealing, and not what God is adding to the Bible through new prophecy.

Is this correct? And could you give us a more clear.

Understanding of that? Thank you. Thank you, Art. If you could listen over the internet, that'd be.

Great. Yeah, well, the fact is, that he had not, and we get the first, that doesn't mean that that cannot be adjusted subject to us. And then he gives us these fantastic days from May 21st, that indeed we have come...

Very much, and who's our next caller, Rich? Chris, we've got Donna.

Driving from Alabama to Florida. Wow, should you be on the phone while you're driving?

Welcome, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron, Donna. Thank you. Mr. Camping, the Lord, right now it's raining very heavy, in case you're hearing that. Mr. Camping, the Lord led through his word, he saved me back in 1982.

And through his word, he convicted me to leave the Catholic Church. And he convicted me that he could teach me through his Holy Spirit in his word. And by his electing sovereign grace, he opened my eyes to see God's work of salvation in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ on my behalf.

Shortly afterwards, the Lord led me to tune into family radio, and I learned from you how to use a concordance and be able to compare scriptures with scriptures. I heartily thank you for that. Back in those days, you were being careful with using words in their context.

You stressed that everything must come from the Bible. I have listened to you the two days of debate, and several things leap out at me. Your closing admonition to us was, I hope that people will remember that there are 365 .2422 days, and do their own arithmetic, multiplying 1978, and what do they get, and breaking that down.

And then you'll find that it all ties in perfectly with the Bible. Well, first of all, what I noticed was that 365 .2422 is not found in the Bible, and 1978 is not found in the Bible either. Then you want us to further factor this.

Yes, the Lord has numbers in the Bible, and yes, in certain places he factors them, but he does the work. And then he opens our eyes to see certain patterns, such as either judgment or mercy for the number five, depending on the context.

But here in the calendar is the work of our hands, first originating with you, Mr. Camping. You keep stressing, check out our work. The Bible's crystal clear that we are not to be depending on the works of our own hands, or we are under God's wrath.

We're to depend solely on the work of Christ and what he has written. Mathematical computations are not comparing spiritual with spiritual. It is a talent, not spiritual discernment. That ability is not given to all, especially the mentally limited.

However, the mentally limited are not spiritually limited if they are one of God's elect, and they will see and hear the work of Jesus Christ as the word is read or heard by them. Donna, we need to have a question here, please.

Yes, yes, I do. But I have to just state these.

Donna, Mr. Camping is trying to respond to you.

Let me respond to you now. Five years to say that. Thank you, Donna and Rich. Who's our next call?

Our next caller is Jill in Los Angeles, California. Jill, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron. Thank you. Yes, if you could please be brief this time. Mr. Camping is,.

Can he please look at Isaiah 29 verses 13 to 16?

29. And while he's looking that up, what's your question? While he's looking that up, what's your question? We lost her, Chris. Oh, we did. Okay.

She'll be a theme that made it. He made ideas rather than a Bible. Do we take our next call?

Yes. Who's the next caller, Rich? And we've got Tony on Long Island, Chris. Tony, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron. Thank you, Mr. Arms. And Mr. Camping,.

I have a question for you. I'm sure you have read it. Just one statement that Jesus himself makes after talking about the end. He says, but on that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only.

How do you, how do you justify that? Jesus himself said that. And how could you actually say that, you know, that you have, you know, a day and time. Great question, Tony. Well, that question is, uh, in agreement.

I mean, that church, beginning with the apostle to be giving it to them, all kinds of things going to be open. It's sealed. And he had the authority. It was actually a church day. But once the church age was spinning that he, they don't know that ready.

They will, but you're not, cause we have to live, cry to God for when my church and they know nothing we've spent in the Bible, but cry time, he would open complicated things. Even I've ever done fashion.

And that is like having another God, Mr. Camping.

Uh, we're running out of time rapidly before we go to our next call, or just let us ask a brief question of my own from first Corinthians 11, uh, verse 26. Uh, we read, uh, we read. For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Now, obviously, since the church, in your opinion, doesn't exist now, how do Christians do that until.

He comes when he hasn't come yet? Well, it is really, you know, the salvation will be completed because let's, sorry, let's take one more caller. Uh, Rich, who's the next one online? Uh, this call is James in New York.

Yes. James. Yes. Um, I called earlier about Jeremiah 25, uh, relation no more at all in the, at all at the end of the world. Thanks James. And your answer finally, Mr. Camping. Uh, what was the question?

I taught the teacher. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Camping.

For graciously accepting our invitation to participate in the debate and on today's program. And I want to thank all of our listeners today, especially those who called in and I want to thank you for your politeness and so on.

And, uh, I want to thank, uh, everybody involved in this program, including the staff of WNYG radio, uh, Alpha Omega ministries and family radio for making this for last four days, a success for those of you who missed, uh, the two day debate.

You can hear those, uh, two days on free downloadable MP3 at www dot a O M I N dot O R G a O M as in Michael I N as in Nancy dot O R G. And you can also hear them on the iron sharpens iron website, sharpens .org S H A R P E N S dot O R G.

And, uh, we, uh, also we'll have the MP3s of the yesterday, uh, yesterday's program and today where we took calls from our listeners for Dr. James R. White and Mr. Harold Camping. I.