May 7, 2019 Show with Pete & Kelli Orta on “Apologetics in Your Own Home”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on the 7th day of May, 2019.

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And I am so thrilled to have both a first -time guest and a returning guest to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio today.

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First of all, the returning guest is Pete Orta. He is, or was, the lead guitarist for Petra from 1996 to 2000.

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And that renowned Christian rock group is a Gospel Hall of Fame inductee.

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And Pete is also a winner of a golden record, or should

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I say gold record, a Dove Award nominee for three Grammys and Grammy winner for Gospel Rock Album of the

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Year for the award -winning album Double Take. He was a contributor of production techniques to the soundtrack for the film

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Left Behind, World at War, and subsequent to a genuine rebirth in Jesus Christ, he is now pastoring a

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Reformed congregation called Cottonwood Creek Church in Denison, Texas. And I'm so delighted that for the very first time his lovely wife

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Kelly Orta is joining him on the program and they are going to both be discussing apologetics in your home.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you both to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for the first time together on the program,

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Pete and Kelly Orta. Hey, thank you so much. We're glad to be here.

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Oh, I'm thrilled that you're both here. And I had a great time with Pete last time and I'm sure I'll have an even better time with both of you now that you're both on.

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And before I go into our theme at hand today, apologetics in your home, let me first of all give our listeners our email address, chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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that's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And please, if you're sending in a question, give us at least your first name, city and state and country of residence, and that is your country if you live outside the

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USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Well, Kelly, as I told you before the show, we have a tradition on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio whenever we have a first -time guest, we try to make sure that we have time to allow them to give a summary of their testimony of how they were saved.

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Give us, if you could, something about a description of what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord used to draw you to himself and save you. Yeah, oh, I'd love to.

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Well, I actually was born into a Christian home.

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It was a, I say, Christian home. My mother was a Christian, and she was the one who took us to church.

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My dad was not around, and when he was, he really wasn't engaged.

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He ended up leaving when I was about seven. But my mom was saved a couple of years before I was born, and we went to a non -denominational church at that time.

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We eventually ended up in the Charismatic Church, but I would not call the first church that I was a part of charismatic, really.

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I went to my mom when I was six years old and told her that I wanted to ask Jesus into my heart, and we did that, and I was very serious about it then, and I think

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I was eight when I was baptized. And so, you know, I grew up thinking, even professing that I was a

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Christian. Unfortunately, the churches that I went to did not teach a good understanding of salvation and God's sovereignty and, you know, all the things that we learn typically in the

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Reformed faith. And so because I was a moral child in my nature,

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I just tend to be moral. So even if I wasn't a Christian, I would still try to do the right thing,

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I think. And so my salvation then, because of the lack of understanding of God's sovereignty and election and those important doctrines,

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I relied on my works. And I don't really know if I ever thought that my works saved me, but I think, you know,

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I think a lot of Americans struggle with feeling like we have to earn it in some way, whether it's through prayer or, you know, just what we're doing.

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But so there was some self -righteousness definitely involved, and, you know, Pete and I got married, and gosh, as you heard his story before, we are completely opposite in our personalities.

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And, you know, he doesn't have a moral compass. It's only because of Christ that he does now.

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And so he was the wild one, and I was, you know, the more,

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I guess, calm and, you know, I don't know, quiet one to a certain extent.

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But I think really when it comes down to it, we came to a place in our marriage when we were in the music industry where we were just floundering.

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I mean, it was not good. We were never counseled before marriage.

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We never had anybody really step in and want to help us or help mentor him or anything like that.

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It just never seemed to happen that way. And so as our marriage was falling apart, you know, we were both dealing with different things.

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Of course, in my nature, I'm looking at what he's doing or not doing. You know, if he had hurt me or struggling with different sin or whatever,

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I'm focused on what he's doing and really not understanding my own sin. And so I think through all that and just the

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Lord putting different people and things in our lives to draw us to the faith that we have now,

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I started to realize that, my goodness, I've got my own sinful, wretched heart to deal with.

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And, you know, so as far as salvation, I don't know when he saved me.

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I just know that it was a, obviously, just like everybody, a journey to get to that place of true understanding of, you know, of the gospel and, again, my salvation and what that meant and what

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I was even being saved from. And so, you know, to give you an exact, you know, moment in time,

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I can't. But that is the journey that, you know, that the Lord kind of had me walk through. And so just figuring out that, man, even a moral person, to me,

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I think a moral person is even harder. It's an even more, I guess, miraculous salvation sometimes,

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I think, because we're just, because of our sin not being blatant and in everybody's face, it can be either secret or just what's going on in our head, you know, a lot of the time.

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I think that, to me, is just as if not more miraculous, because we are the type of people that think that we don't need a

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Savior or think that, you know, we can save ourselves through our works, like I said.

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So that's my story. Well, praise God for it. And it is interesting how

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Jesus' harshest words of condemnation and rebuke were for the self -righteous religious folks.

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And he was far more gentle and compassionate in his approach to those that most people at the time and today as well would look down upon as the outcasts, the dregs of society, the worst of the worst, the thieves and the prostitutes and so on, the sexually perverse and promiscuous.

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And when they came to him, he just had a very different approach, but he had no tolerance for the unrighteous who were, in their minds, righteous.

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Right, right, exactly. And, I mean, I thank God so much for choosing to have mercy on me, and he has had mercy on me.

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I feel like he has been so gentle with me, considering what he could have been. And it could be that, you know, my self -righteousness was out of ignorance because I didn't know, because I wasn't being taught like I should have been.

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But either way, I don't like that person at all, and I'm so grateful for God's grace in my life.

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Amen, and I don't want anybody to mishear something I just said because I may have fumbled with words improperly.

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I didn't mean to indicate that Jesus tolerated the immoral sexually and those that were thieves and so on.

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I just meant that he was more compassionate towards them and less severe in his rebuke to them.

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But so, now let's hear, I mean, I'm sure that Pete, if my memory serves me right,

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I'm sure that he told me the story of how you two met, but you might have a completely different story because it's coming from a different angle, though.

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Yes, you're right. So yeah, we, let's see, I was, so the second church that I went to, the one that I mentioned that was the more charismatic one, that's where we met.

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We went to the same high school, but we hadn't really met there. I think we'd seen each other there. But yeah,

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I was 15, he was 17. Him and his band, or him and his drummer, I should say, wanted to find a keyboard player, and so they knew that you find keyboard players at churches, so that's where they went.

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And they just happened to show up at our church, which is funny now that I think about it because it was in an old mall, and I don't even know if people realize that that was actually a church.

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But anyway, so they showed up there, and that's how we met, but I actually dated his friend for a little while first.

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So that wasn't my finest moment. Lay in,

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Chris. Anyway, but Pete and I, throughout that horrifying relationship, we actually became really good friends.

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And so we were, I mean, I don't know if I'd call us best friends, but we were pretty close friends for about a year and a half.

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And then we, after, see, I had broken up with that other guy because he was just not a nice guy at the time, and could be now, but wasn't then.

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And so me and Pete just stayed friends, and then, yeah, we just ended up deciding that, gosh, you know, this could be something.

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And so we dated for a couple of years, and then we got married when I was 19 and he was 21.

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So we got married, we got started pretty young. Wow, that is pretty amazing, though, that you got married pretty young, and you're still married to the same spouse.

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So you're both still married to the same spouse. Yeah, I guess that's the grace

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I was talking about earlier, too, because, I mean, we could so easily have been divorced. And, you know, for some reason, you know, sometimes

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I wonder, like, why, Lord, you know, did you choose our marriage to continue when we see so many around us that don't?

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And I don't know why, you know, other than it's just, you know, for his glory, and we're grateful for it because I don't want to start over with somebody else.

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He's worn me out. Now, from Pete's testimony, he, even when he was performing with Petra, and even when he went into a solo career with a debut album,

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Born Again, he admitted on the show that, I think it may have been the first public time that he admitted this, from what

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I recall, on Iron Trump and Zion Radio, but that he was not born again when he was in the height of his professional music career as a

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Christian, as a professing Christian, I should say. Yes, yes, yes. Now, were you confident of the fact that he was not born again?

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And perhaps you could also give me a timeline of when you think you came to true saving faith.

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Was it before Pete or after? And also, when you came to embrace the doctrines of Reformed theology.

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Okay. So, you know, it didn't ever dawn on me that he was not truly saved during that time because of my lack of understanding of what the fruit of salvation should look like.

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And so when we got married, we both thought we were Christians, you know, and again,

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I could have been. I don't know if it was just in the earlier stages of it, and it was just this long journey he was walking me through at that time.

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But, you know, seeing Pete speak in churches and different events, I mean, what

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I heard him saying, it sounded that way to me. But, of course, as really when it came down to it, when everything started hitting the fan and things started falling apart, that is when it was really starting to be clear that we were not right, that my understanding of the

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Word and of God was not right and so was his because he would say things like, you know, well, yeah, he would just basically say, hey, you know,

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God's not involved. I mean, he just, yes, he's the creator. He made us, but he just spinned the world on its axis and just hands off.

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And that never sounded right to me, but again, because of my lack of understanding, I didn't really know how to refute it.

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And so it just kind of bothered me. I said he was kind of going through this season of being jaded and kind of pulling away, but that was at the end.

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So while we were in Nashville, while he was in the industry, you couldn't have told me at that time that he wasn't saved.

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I would have argued with you. And so it wasn't until the

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Lord just started that stripping process for both of us that, at that point, he just started putting things in our path, you know, as far as just things that he was reading with Spurgeon and then

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Sproul somehow came across his path. So we just started digging in, and that was,

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I would say, you know, 10, 12 years ago that that really started, that we really started diving into all that and understanding and studying.

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And, I mean, he studied heavily for the first four years, just always learning, always trying to consume information and be a good student because he wanted to know.

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He's naturally a thinker and wanting to question things and kind of playing the devil's advocate.

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And so he really wanted to know why he believed what he believed. And, of course, through that process, he started to disciple me.

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And then that's when it happened as far as just our understanding came together and our marriage just started to grow again after that just in understanding

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God's providence and his will for our lives and that it wasn't about us and how we felt, you know, and really starting to understand at that point that our marriage was not about us being happy.

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It was so that we would be holy and that it would glorify the Lord. And so, you know,

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I think that's pretty much the story and the timeline. I hope

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I made it clear for you. Oh, yeah, sure. And you reminded me to give a loving rebuke to all of my fundamentalist friends out there.

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I don't want to broad brush because I don't believe all of my fundamentalist

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Baptist friends believe this way. But many, too large a number, believe that you cannot be born again unless you can remember the day and the hour you were saved.

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And I'm sorry if I'm laughing at you folks, but that's absurd because that would require omniscience.

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I mean, that would require knowing your heart a lot better than anyone really does know it.

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We're saved by faith and grace, not by date, right? That's right. Well, I mean, who's to say that John the

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Baptist could have even said, been able to answer that because, you know, yes, we know from the writings in Scripture that he was saved in the womb, but would he have been able to say that when he was six years old that that's when he was saved if somebody was to ask him?

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I don't know. Maybe he was sitting around bragging with his friends when they were telling him the moment they were saved.

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He's like, hey, well, I got that topped. I was saved in the womb, okay? Yes. I looked for joy. Oh, that's funny.

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I don't know about that. I don't want to offend anybody, but I can't tell you.

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I mean, if I was to go by when I was six, I could tell you then. But, you know, it's hard because I'm like,

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I didn't have even a close understanding of what it really meant. I just knew in my heart that that's what

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I wanted, and so was it the Jesus that I had kind of developed in my own mind during those years of what

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I thought he was? You know, I don't know, but I just know that I am now.

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That's what really matters because actually if people get too hung up on the day they believe they were saved, they might be perpetuating a false conversion that never really took place at all.

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They just think in their minds, well, I remember when I held my hand up at the Bible camp when I was eight and I went forward.

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I know that that's when I was saved, and they may be carrying that with them for decades as some kind of a treasured possession, this memory, and it may have been a false conversion for them.

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Yes, absolutely. Remembering these things does not prove anything, and I cannot be certain either when

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I was saved. In fact, I think there are people on the elder board of my church that still do not believe

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I'm saved. I'm only kidding. But the time frame that I believe with some sense of confidence that I was saved is when

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I went from being terrified to be baptized to being,

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I can't wait, to being excited and impatient and just wanting to get baptized because I wanted everybody that I knew and loved to witness that, to witness my public profession of dedication to Christ and my transformed life due to his grace and mercy alone, and especially my

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Roman Catholic family and friends. I wanted them to hear that. And I think that when that switch went off,

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I can remember hearing from the pulpit calls to, if you really think that you have come to faith in Christ and you are not baptized, you are disobeying him.

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And I remember being physically trembling over it, and I just couldn't do it because I don't think that I was at a point where I was ready to abandon the idols in my life, which included addiction and so forth, addiction to alcohol.

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But I also, I think, was ashamed of the gospel to a certain extent because I didn't want to publicly declare something in front of people, and also because I was not regenerate.

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I don't believe. So, therefore, when that changed, that radical transformation in my attitude took place,

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I believe that that's one way to say it. But we are going to go to our very first break right now.

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And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Pete and Kelly Orta.

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And when we come back, you have to tell us about this ministry that you both run where you have actually purchased a home large enough where you have invited people who are really experiencing great difficulties and trials in their lives, where they cannot maintain a proper lifestyle independently yet, and you have welcomed them into your home.

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And you can give us more details on that. But when we come back, I want to hear about that. Because that is also an amazing story when

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I think of the far less significant and serious things that cause couples to break up and cause couples to be in a constant state of war with each other.

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And the way that you two have welcomed people into your home and dedicated your lives to this ministry, it's just a very breathtaking and impressive and awe -inspiring story.

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But if anybody wants to join us, as I said, send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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And as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pete and Kelly Orta right after these messages from our sponsors.

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the more likely we will continue to exist. We are back with Pete and Kelly Orta.

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Pete was the lead guitarist for Petra from 1998 to 2000.

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And he and his wife Kelly are on the program discussing apologetics in your own home. Pete currently pastors

35:21

Cottonwood Creek Church in Denison, Texas, which is a Reformed Baptistic congregation.

35:27

And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

35:34

And just to tell you a little funny story about that commercial you just heard, Pete and Kelly, the commercial for Solid -Ground

35:42

Christian Books. I was interviewing a pastor from South Carolina, and he happened to be in the studio with me because he had moved here to Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

35:52

And he heard the ad, and during the station break, he was laughing. And if you recall, someone with a

35:59

British accent is imitating Charles Spurgeon in the ad. And my pastor friend started laughing, and he said, that's the funniest

36:08

English accent I've ever heard in my entire life. And I said, brother, that man is from England.

36:22

Every time I hear the ad, I'm reminded of that incident.

36:30

That's funny. Well, tell me about, tell us, I should say, our listeners as well, about this phenomenal ministry that you have that actually required you to purchase a much larger building that you now call your home, your residence.

36:46

That enabled you to fulfill the ministry's requirements to get people into your home and have them basically a place where they can restart and get back on their feet and so on.

37:02

Tell us about this. Well, about ten years ago,

37:09

Kelly and I felt a call to ministry. And, you know, not really being very familiar with church work because of just our involvement in, you know, kind of the

37:29

Christian rock industry and just music. You know, there's, even though we, I associated with a lot of churches or pastors around a lot of Christian people.

37:40

There's a whole other subculture of Christianity in kind of the, how the church operates and how missions operate.

37:54

I'm very familiar now, being a pastor, understanding those dynamics.

37:59

And now that I look back, we really started that whole thing in an unorthodox way, you know, completely set up and done the hard way.

38:10

But we just didn't, we didn't know. And I don't even think that, I don't,

38:16

I'm not speaking, you know, of every church, but I don't even know of a lot of churches that would even, they would probably give you a thumbs up like, hey, go for it.

38:24

But I don't think that they would want to be in something this sloppy, this messy.

38:32

So, you know, it was probably for the best. I would assume God knew what he was doing. And so I talked to my wife and, you know,

38:40

I just wanted to help young people at that time that came from the type of background that I had.

38:50

And, you know, so we didn't know where to start. You know, I wanted to help young people out from about 18 to 24.

38:56

I thought that was a good age to bring them in. And it was an age where if they hadn't ended up in prison yet, even if they had been to jail maybe once or twice just for some minor things that we could, you know, we could kind of help them set on their path.

39:14

And we wanted to, we started off by helping those that were aging out of foster care.

39:21

They weren't getting adopted, and at that time there wasn't a lot of help for them. You know, even today, just with the way the world works,

39:30

I mean, you can raise funds for, you know, whales and exotic birds and trees and children and even the disabled.

39:45

There's a heart there that people want to pour out to. But not a 23 -year -old that hates the world.

39:52

There's no support for that. You're not going to come in and, you know, you're not going to come in and go, oh, this is just so heartwarming, and here's a blank check.

40:02

It doesn't operate like that. Chris, if you were to come in when we've got, you know, depending on the season, you know, some of these guys might not even say hi to you or even might not even be happy that you're there.

40:16

So in that, there's not really, there's no hard strings to pull, and you probably, most people might not even want to donate to something like that.

40:25

It's not Hollywood, and, you know, those other needs are,

40:33

I'm sure they have their struggles and things like this, but this is a bear to wrestle.

40:41

And so we just started pulling in people and didn't know how we were going to even support ourselves, much less the ministry, but the

40:50

Lord provided the story kind of buzzing around our community, and people would stop by, and they would see all these kids, teenagers, and the young people that we had that we were pulling in.

41:02

And I started out by calling foster care, you know, children's homes, and anybody that was aging out, we would take them in and started calling at detention centers and saying, if there's somebody you can't handle, we will.

41:19

Send us your worst. And, you know, a lot of institutions, they, you know, a lot of them, man, they just kind of want an easy, they want the easy kids.

41:29

So you'll find that a lot of these type places that are helping, they do want the easy kids, and we understand that now, of course, but so that's how we started.

41:38

And we just, the Lord just provided.

41:44

We didn't have a proper building. It was in our home that we lived in.

41:51

We had an HOA, of course, rule that we started realizing the more we were bringing in, you know, one or two was no big deal, but as more started coming in, once you have about eight plus our own kids in the house, you know, we're kind of violating some rules.

42:07

So we started praying for a place to be and work someplace we could rent or ranch or something like that, and the

42:15

Lord has definitely, you know, moved us from one place to another, and we ended up in an old hotel in Denison, Texas.

42:26

And it has been quite the experience here. I was talking to a friend of mine this weekend, and he worked at a place that took in young people as well, and they're still going strong.

42:44

And he was just saying that residential ministry has got to be one of the hardest ministries that there is, and he worked in this place as well where they're handling, you know, these young people.

42:57

You know, if they got too crazy, they would kick them out, and so they would give us a call when there was somebody that they couldn't handle.

43:05

And I told him it is difficult. I said, but can you imagine if you handed all your students the keys to your home on the property on the premises?

43:15

And he's like, man, I can't. I said, that's what we're in. We're in a situation where they can,

43:21

I mean, Kelly and I, we're not at home right now. Anybody can go in our room. Anybody can take what they want.

43:28

Right now we've got a couple of guys there that we definitely trust, and we're transitioning them out.

43:36

They've got jobs and cars, and we're making sure that they've got a good start, and so we're in a good place where we can be here at the church.

43:44

Our kids are at the ministry right now. So, you know, it just started like that just to help these young people, and it is a very intense calling.

43:59

It's a very intense ministry. And, you know, my wife and I, we've been on a sabbatical here for the past few months because in the last decade we have not taken a sabbatical.

44:14

We've not taken a break. And, you know, I mean, the only way that anybody could ever really understand is if I just dropped off about six felons in your home that were all at the age of rebellion and said, good luck, and you've got your kids there.

44:31

There's just no rest. There's no rest. And so we've been resting, and we've also been questioning, too, this time period that we've been given to just kind of stop and reflect.

44:43

Chris, I've just got to be honest. Do we continue in the same way that we continue?

44:50

Do we reshape it and make it look different? Only because as time went on,

44:57

Chris, the young people went from foster care kids and some kids that kind of were dealing with POTS to schizophrenic, sociopathic, you know, drug addict dealers that are just on another level of insane, and the danger started just rising and the exhaustion, if you can imagine.

45:26

And I can't explain to people the just the stress.

45:33

I wouldn't call it PTSD only because I respect our soldiers enough to not carry that, and nor would

45:43

I even come close to it. But whatever there is, a light version of that where you are always on guard, you are always like a prison guard that never gets to leave, but you have to sleep there in the cell with them.

45:57

I can't describe it well, but it's tiring and it's exhausting, and we're taking this time right now just to kind of see, okay, hold on.

46:08

Do we back up and kind of go about the original mission statement and helping kind of a lighter cases of kids that actually want to get better, or are we just caretakers for the mentally insane?

46:25

The reprobate that has just been handed over to their own demise around my own kids and allow people with bigger staff, cameras, and straitjackets to do.

46:39

And so I'm just questioning it. Different things have happened during our sabbatical. I was really exhausted last night.

46:46

We were trying to celebrate my wife's birthday, and she was at the supermarket.

46:52

You know, we don't live in a great area, and I said, I'm going to go with you just to make sure. It's at night, and she wanted to get some ice cream and make some desserts for the kids.

47:00

And just an example of, like, I don't know if the Lord's trying to show me something, but I see this guy walking in the parking lot, and at the angle where he's walking, something doesn't look right, doesn't feel right to me.

47:12

And I'm like, drop me off right here because where you're about to park, I don't want to be trapped in the vehicle as this guy's approaching us.

47:19

And sure enough, something was not right. I go straight up to him. I'm about two feet in front of him face to face, and I'm like, man, are you okay?

47:27

And he's bleeding. He's got blood all over his head. He's got no shirt on, blood all over his body.

47:34

And I'm sitting there talking to him, and he's kind of just hyped up and amped up. And I'm like, dude, what is wrong?

47:41

And I see this stream of blood as we're talking squirting out of his hand. He hit an artery.

47:47

He got in a fight with somebody. Who knows? The other guy they said was in worse condition.

47:53

And he's bleeding all over me, my shoes, my pants, my skin.

47:58

I was just kind of paranoid and where that blood has been and everything like that.

48:05

And at the end of it, we get home. I'm showering, stripping down, and just scrubbing myself.

48:10

And I'm so comfortable around walking violent zombies that it's normal to me that I'm almost stepping back going, this isn't right.

48:24

This is, you know, and I'm just being honest with you. I know we're live, and I didn't talk to my wife about this.

48:32

I just told her I would take lead on answering this. But, you know, for that to be normal for you, as going to get birthday ice cream and getting a guy bleeding all over you and you're accustomed to it, and I was ready for him to charge at me or to be violent or to help him or do whatever.

48:51

And, you know, we called 911. He needed help because that guy was bleeding out.

48:57

I mean, he probably just in the few minutes that he was there probably bled out a pint. I've never seen anybody bleed like this, just a constant stream.

49:06

And anyway, I was too exhausted to get involved. I told the police I want to stay out.

49:12

I went home, got showered up, we had some ice cream. This is normal? And so I'm just going,

49:20

Lord, we need a different dynamic.

49:25

So we're looking at maybe, I don't know, looking for another property where I can lock up my family at night, we can have our own little quarters, have little bungalows.

49:36

And if somebody wants to just be destructive, I'll handle it in the morning. So we're just in prayer about that.

49:43

But, yes, it's extreme. We've had some wonderful times too. It hasn't always, not every season is like that.

49:52

The Lord has protected us, protected my family. And so we are just, it just kept evolving where people just, we didn't have enough help.

50:04

We don't have any staff. We don't have the funding because nobody wants to. It's not heartfelt to give to people like this.

50:14

And so it's just a struggle. And we're just looking at, like, Lord, you know, this one place that also helped these young people on a lighter, they were lighter cases.

50:30

Kelly, I don't know if you remember how much staff they said they had. It was like 16. 16 staff.

50:38

And I think they took, go ahead. They took in the same amount that we do.

50:45

12 to 16 grown people on staff paid, and it's just my wife and I. And I'm just, so we're just, we are, we are.

50:56

You know, we did have, we did have a director who did take over and help throughout most, a lot of the years.

51:03

Not, I would say, you know, seven, six, seven of the years. But he has moved on. And so that's where we're just kind of in that mode of, you know, wanting the

51:12

Lord to just show us the direction to go in. And, you know, Pete has, he still has the desire to help these young people.

51:22

It just needs to look a little bit different, whether it's the property that we have or the type of guys that we take in.

51:30

But I do want to say one thing real quick, too. Something that has been really cool with the ministry is that Pete learned profiling.

51:40

He learned how to profile. He learned how to interview these people because we wouldn't just take in anybody.

51:47

We, you know, he would do like a two -hour interview process just to make sure that they weren't going to be dangerous for our family.

51:55

This started a little bit later on in the beginning. We were just kind of taking whoever we could. But he learned how to profile, which was awesome.

52:03

He, you know, understands the different personality types, which is extremely helpful in so many areas of our life and in the church.

52:12

And so that's been a blessing. And like he said, we've seen some transformations of some of these young men that has been very encouraging.

52:20

A lot of it can be discouraging. And, you know, we – can you all hear me okay?

52:28

Yes. Oh, yeah. I hear you perfectly. I heard a little bit of an echo of myself, so I wanted to make sure.

52:35

Anyway, so, you know, there has been – God has completely used it in so many ways.

52:42

But, yeah, we've gotten to a point to where we're at a place of just saying, Lord, please reveal to us, you know, what we should do.

52:50

We know that there's a lot of young people out there who need, you know, some direction, who need discipleship.

52:57

And it doesn't even need to be or have to be the kind like Mikey's talking about that are just so far gone.

53:05

We know that there's a group of young people out there that would love to be able to even have like a residential place for six months to go and get some discipleship in between maybe high school and college or high school and a career or whatever.

53:19

And we want to be able to do that. And I know Pete still has a big heart for that.

53:24

So, you know, everybody could just be in prayer with, you know, the direction that we take. Well, you know, now you have both made me really ashamed of myself because I have a very close friend and brother who

53:38

I won't even share a hotel room with him when we travel because he snores. I mean, in comparison to what you guys –

53:46

You don't – I'm sorry. I didn't hear what you said.

53:52

I'm sorry. Don't feel bad. Yeah, don't feel bad. I don't blame you. Well, you've endured a lot worse than that.

54:00

Oh, sorry. In fact, I'm going to put you guys in touch with friends of mine that run the

54:05

Timothy Hill Children's Ranch who – they have strict requirements on who they take in, but they are troubled youths, many of them.

54:15

In fact, most of them. But they are children of prison inmates. They are children of – they are abuse victims.

54:23

You know, sometimes their parents have abused or molested them. Or sometimes their parents just cannot have them remain in the house because of something that they are themselves struggling with.

54:35

But – And also to let our listeners know, timothyhill .org. timothyhill .org

54:41

is the website, Timothy Hill Children's Ranch. But I'll tell you more about them when we go off the air. We have to go to our first –

54:48

I'm sorry. We have to go to our second station break right now. This is the longer than normal station break that we have because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle because they air their own public service announcements and local commercials while we air our own commercials that are heard globally.

55:07

They have to localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, with their own identity and their own public service announcements.

55:15

So please use this time wisely. Write down questions for Pete and Kelly Orta. But also write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them because, as I keep reminding you, we require or we depend upon, we rely upon the advertising dollars that come in from our sponsors in order to exist.

55:38

We could not exist without them. So please, the more you patronize them whenever you can, the more likely we will remain on the air for a longer period of time.

55:49

So please write down their information and also send in your questions to Pete and Kelly Orta to chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

55:55

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

56:03

USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pete and Kelly Orta.

56:14

Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to our family of sponsors. Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering, understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

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57:24

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

57:30

I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

57:37

And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

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No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

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For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Hey, this is

58:56

Pete Orta, former guitar player for the Grammy Award -winning Christian rock band, Petra. I'd like to invite you to my new podcast called

59:03

Christian Conversations Unfiltered. This channel is much different than my sermon podcast. The episodes are intimate conversations with people who

59:11

I enjoy about topics that I can't really unbox from the pulpit. Each episode is unproduced, unedited, and unapologetic, conversations that might not only help you answer some relevant questions you might be struggling with, but also help create some questions in your head that you might not have even ever thought of.

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The purpose of this podcast is to help people apply their theology while broadening their biblical worldview.

59:34

So go to PeteOrta .com, that's P -E -T -E -O -R -T -A dot com, and click subscribe to podcast, and then choose what podcast you'd like to hear, if not both, and what platform works best for you.

59:47

Can't wait for you to join us. God bless. Did you know that all believers are priests?

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In 1 Peter chapter 2 verse 9, the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

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Visit CitizenPriest .com today. I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, host of A Visit to the

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Pastor's Study, and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising family right here on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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If you live on Long Island or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area, I invite you to join us for worship at The Haven on Sundays at 4 .30

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p .m. We meet at the Ascension Lutheran Church facility, 33 Bayshore Road in Deer Park, New York.

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At The Haven, you'll find God -saturated singing, gospel -rich ministry, and Great Commission opportunities.

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Learn more about us at thehavenli .com and join us this Sunday at 4 .30

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p .m., 33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

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I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

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Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture, and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

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Our churches and our people need to be well -grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

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If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

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Thriving Financial is not your typical financial services provider. As a membership organization, we help

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We were made for so much more than ordinary life.

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Lending faith, finances, and generosity. That's the Thriving story. We were made to thrive.

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown

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Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

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.nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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.nyc. Have a great day. I'm Dr.

01:04:37

Gary Kimbrell, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 1 .27 that pure and undefiled religion is to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction.

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In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

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Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans. I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

01:04:58

What was I to do? Could I just say, God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

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As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

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The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

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If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

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So if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans. In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

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Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

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Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or bbclaurel .com.

01:05:50

Thank you. Music Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

01:06:03

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you. There are four ways you can help.

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First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

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Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise, and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at ironsharpensironradio .com

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and click support at the top of the page. But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

01:06:42

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come. Music Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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01:09:06

I hope somebody someday makes a movie out of his life. He was a teacher.

01:09:12

He was an attorney. He was a stage actor in the 19th century involved in the theater and was so wracked with guilt and his conscience troubled him so much that he had to leave that profession.

01:09:30

He thought it was an ungodly profession, which was a common view in the 19th century of that type of livelihood.

01:09:38

He was a war hero in the War of 1812, and the accounts of his bravery are absolutely astonishing.

01:09:47

And, of course, he was a pastor, including a long term as the pastor of First Baptist Church of New York City, right in the heart of Manhattan, where I actually, that building is still there in Manhattan, and I had an event featuring my friend

01:10:01

Dr. Tony Costa at that event a couple of years ago, and it was quite moving to me to be in that building for the first time after reading this biography.

01:10:11

Well, you'll get this biography absolutely free if you purchase $50 or more worth of merchandise from cvbbs .com.

01:10:18

All you have to do is enter in the coupon code IRONSHARPENSIREN, and that's all one word and all capital letters,

01:10:26

IRONSHARPENSIREN, and you have to include the book, A Pastor in New York, in your cart, and then add an additional $50 worth of merchandise, and as soon as you enter the coupon code, the cost of the book,

01:10:41

A Pastor in New York, will be subtracted from your total. So you have to do it that way, and just remember it's

01:10:47

IRONSHARPENSIREN, all caps, all one word. You can also verbally tell them the coupon code,

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IRONSHARPENSIREN, if you call 800 -656 -0231 and order that way.

01:10:58

800 -656 -0231, they man that phone line Monday through Friday, typically between 10 a .m.

01:11:04

and 4 .30 p .m. Eastern Time. So please remember to tell them that you heard about cvbbs .com

01:11:11

from Chris Arns and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We just have a few very important announcements to make in regard to upcoming special events that our sponsors are conducting.

01:11:22

Well, before I even talk about the events, I just want you to remind yourselves by writing it down on your calendar that tomorrow

01:11:28

Terry L. Johnson returns to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to discuss his book published by the

01:11:34

Banner of Truth, The Identity and Attributes of God. That's tomorrow, Wednesday, the 8th of May from 4 to 6 p .m.

01:11:43

Eastern Time. I hope that you tune in. And here's a little heads up. We are giving away copies of Terry L.

01:11:51

Johnson's book, The Identity and Attributes of God. So keep that in mind and send in a question so you can win a free copy.

01:11:59

And we are only able to give free copies to the first four people who send in questions.

01:12:05

That's tomorrow, Wednesday, May 8th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:12:11

Then, coming up after that, Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m.,

01:12:17

I am having my next Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon, absolutely free of charge at the

01:12:24

Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. This is an event that my precious late wife,

01:12:31

Julie, came up with and started with me back in the 1990s when

01:12:36

I was living in New York. And she told me one Christmas season, why don't we forego giving

01:12:43

Christmas gifts to each other so we can afford to treat your pastor friends to lunch.

01:12:48

She knew that I had more pastor friends than most people. In fact, even to this day, most of my friends are pastors.

01:12:55

So she said, let's treat your friends to lunch, and why don't we get a good speaker to give them a good message for men in the ministry, and why don't we get some publishers to donate books that they can take home with them.

01:13:09

And she just really had a burden on her heart for these men of God. And we have continued, or I have continued this after she has gone home to be with the

01:13:19

Lord for eternity. Now I conduct these events in her honor, in the honor of my late wife,

01:13:25

Julie. So Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m., at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall, Carlisle, Pennsylvania, the guest speaker is

01:13:33

Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. He is going to be doing a

01:13:39

PowerPoint presentation on how the Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the

01:13:44

Bible. And every man is going to be leaving with a heavy sack, or maybe even two heavy sacks, of free brand -new books that I have personally selected from many major Christian publishers all over the

01:13:55

United States and the United Kingdom. So you're probably going to be leaving there with between two and three dozen books.

01:14:03

That's right, two and three dozen books, absolutely free. And they are really good books, all of them.

01:14:10

So please send me an email and register if you can make it out here to Carlisle, Pennsylvania, May 23rd, 11 a .m.

01:14:17

to 2 p .m., at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall. The email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:14:23

chrisarnson at gmail .com. And just put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line, and I will register you immediately.

01:14:30

And invite all men that you know in ministry leadership. Sorry, ladies, this is a men's -only lunch.

01:14:36

That was actually a strict requirement of my precious late wife. In fact, even though I would beg her to come to the luncheon with me because it was her idea,

01:14:45

I said to her, Honey, nobody's going to care that you're the only woman there because it's your idea.

01:14:50

But she wouldn't listen. She never would ever come to the luncheon herself. So don't feel too bad, ladies.

01:14:56

My own wife wouldn't come to the luncheons that she actually established. But this is a men's -only lunch.

01:15:02

So send me an email if you're a man in ministry leadership, whether you're a pastor, an elder, and those are both the same office, by the way, deacon, parachurch, ministry leader, whatever type of leadership position you hold if you are a man, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:15:15

and I will register you immediately. Hope to see you there Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m.

01:15:21

at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall, Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Dr. Costa will be preaching at a number of churches after that in New York.

01:15:30

He and I are packing up our bags and heading out to New York for the whole weekend where he is speaking at New Hyde Park Baptist Church in western

01:15:40

Nassau County, Long Island, Wading River Baptist Church in central

01:15:45

Suffolk County, Long Island, Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, also in central

01:15:52

Suffolk, and Missio Church in Ridge, Long Island, which is in eastern Suffolk County. If you want a complete itinerary with the topics and the contact information for all of the churches involved, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:16:05

and put Dr. Tony Costa in the subject line. I'll make sure I email you a complete itinerary. Then I'm packing up my bags again and heading back to Pennsylvania, but this time

01:16:15

I'm heading to Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, to the Elizabethtown College where the

01:16:21

Banner of Truth is having their East Coast Ministers Conference. The same requirements apply here.

01:16:27

If you are a man in ministry leadership, you are welcome to register. I Believe in the Holy Spirit is the theme, and the guests are

01:16:34

Jeff Kingswood, Terry Johnson, who I just mentioned before, who is returning as our guest tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron, David Vaughn, Steve Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

01:16:46

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, Michael Morales, and Chad Vegas. That's Tuesday, May 28th, through Thursday, May 30th, in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania.

01:16:56

If you would like to register, go to BannerofTruth .org, BannerofTruth .org, click on events, and then scroll down to East Coast Ministers Conference.

01:17:05

I hope to see you there. Ask around and look for me, because I would love to see as many Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners, both old and new, as possible at the

01:17:14

East Coast Ministers Conference. Then, on December 19th and 20th, which is a

01:17:19

Thursday and Friday, I am going to be heading to New York City, my old stomping grounds, to the

01:17:26

Foundations Conference, a conference of sermonaudio .com, and they do a phenomenal job every time they have this conference.

01:17:35

I am eagerly looking forward to returning. The speakers include Dr. Stephen J.

01:17:40

Lawson. You've been hearing him every day advertise New Covenant Church, NYC, one of the sponsors of this program.

01:17:46

He is the founder of One Passion Ministries and an extraordinary preacher. Paul Washer is on the roster, and he is one of the finest preachers alive as well.

01:17:54

Rev. Jeff Thomas, another extraordinary preacher and author, retired after over half a century pastoring the same church in Aberystwyth, Wales, Alfred Place Baptist Church.

01:18:06

What a fine man of God he is. Rev. Armand Tomassian, a young pastor who has gifts and abilities far beyond his youth, and I am certain within the next decade he is going to become a household name in Reformed circles, because he is so gifted and so profound and so powerful.

01:18:22

I am looking forward with bated breath to hear Armand preach again. Richard Colwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley are two men

01:18:28

I've never heard preach, but since Sermon Audio selected them, I'm sure they are magnificent as well. If you'd like to register for this event,

01:18:35

Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in New York City, the Foundations Conference, go to thefoundationsconference .com,

01:18:42

thefoundationsconference .com, and you can register there. And then

01:18:47

I'm heading out in January of 2020 to the G3 Conference once again.

01:18:52

The G3 Conference, I always have an absolutely phenomenal time at this event.

01:18:59

This one is going to be held from Thursday, January 16th, through Saturday, January 18th at the

01:19:06

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta. They are expecting, as they do every year, over 5 ,000 people to attend.

01:19:17

And as every year, they are having an absolutely extraordinary lineup of speakers.

01:19:25

These lineups that they have, I don't even know how they could afford to handle these conferences because of the very large roster of speakers that they have.

01:19:36

And it's just extraordinary. One of them is a friend of mine who

01:19:41

I actually referred to the G3 Conference and urged them to have him speak there, and they finally took me up on my suggestion.

01:19:49

Kosti Hinn, yes, his last name is H -I -N -N Hinn, and if that name sounds familiar, it's likely because of a very bad reason.

01:19:58

Kosti's uncle is the notorious charlatan Benny Hinn, and Kosti has repudiated, pronounced, and repented of his

01:20:05

Word of Faith background. He is a Reformed Baptist today and a cessationist, and he is a pastor of a

01:20:13

Calvinistic Baptist church in California. He is an extraordinary speaker as well, and I'm looking forward to hearing him at the conference.

01:20:21

David Miller, a good old -fashioned fire and brimstone preacher of extraordinary gifts, is going to be there.

01:20:28

Derek Thomas, a name that is certainly familiar to all Reformed Christians, or at least most of them.

01:20:34

My friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, he is going to be speaking.

01:20:40

Joel Beeky is going to be speaking. Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3 Conference.

01:20:46

Paul Washer and Stephen Lawson are also going to be on this roster, as they were in New York City, or are,

01:20:53

I should say, in New York City. My friend Dr. Tom Askell, who is the

01:20:59

Executive Director of Founders Ministries, the Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention. And Voni Baucom, one of the finest speakers on the planet

01:21:07

Earth as well. So, if you want to register, go to G3conference .com, G3conference .com. And I would strongly suggest you register for an exhibitor's booth as well, just as I will be manning there, because, as I said, there are over 5 ,000 people that they are expecting to attend.

01:21:23

So, I strongly urge you to do that while they still have room for exhibitor's booths. Go to G3conference .com,

01:21:30

and please tell them that you heard about their event from Chris Arnsen on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Always tell any of our advertisers that.

01:21:38

Also, I want to remind you, please, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, go to irontripandzionradio .com,

01:21:46

click support, then click, click to donate now. Once again, we are in urgent need of your donations.

01:21:52

We hit these rough spots about four times a year, where they get very scary. We wonder if we can continue doing the program because bills begin to mount up that we cannot afford to pay.

01:22:05

And about four times a year, the contributions drastically drop in number.

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01:23:07

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01:23:15

If you are not a member of a Bible -believing church and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

01:23:22

You have to rectify that situation. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put in the subject line,

01:23:28

I need a church home and I can help you find one. I have churches, biblically faithful churches on lists from all over the world that I can refer you to.

01:23:38

I've already helped a number of people find churches in Australia and other countries and in the

01:23:43

United States and all over the 50 United States. I can help you find one as well.

01:23:49

I can also help you find a church if you're going on vacation and want to be recommended to a church near where you're vacationing.

01:23:56

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church home or something similar in the subject line. I will help you if I can.

01:24:04

And that is also the email address where you can send in a question to Pete and Kelly Orta.

01:24:09

We are now going to be heading into our discussion on apologetics in your own home.

01:24:14

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:24:21

And, you know, Pete and Kelly, we do have not only seasoned

01:24:26

Christians in the audience who already are fully aware of what apologetics means.

01:24:32

Many of them consider apologetics one of their life passions. But we also have new

01:24:37

Christians listening, and we also have non -Christians listening sometimes. So can you define for us, Pete, what is apologetics?

01:24:47

Apologetics is basically having a reason why we believe what we believe about the

01:24:55

Bible. It is, of course, a lot of people say to, you know, have a defense for the gospel.

01:25:06

So, you know, to me it is just knowing why you believe what you believe.

01:25:14

Of course, Christian apologetics, once you put the word Christian before it, it's a defense, an answer for what your faith is and why.

01:25:30

Sorry, I was pouring myself a cup of coffee. And I put myself on mute when

01:25:39

I do stuff like that, so I apologize for that. Yes, and one thing that some people make the mistake of believing is that only a certain group of people who are highly educated and who are professional seminary professors, or they are published authors, or they are involved in some kind of high level of academic instruction, and so on, they think they're the apologists, we don't need to worry about that.

01:26:14

Well, every Christian, in his own way, is called to be an apologist, are we not?

01:26:21

I mean, we're not all called to be experts on the cults, we're not all called to know

01:26:26

Greek and Hebrew, but we are called to be able to give an answer for the hope that lies within us.

01:26:34

Isn't that right, Kelly? Oh, yes, I completely agree.

01:26:40

I think a lot of times us moms tend to think that same thing because we're so busy with our kids and the home and things like that, but in reality, we've got to be that to our children.

01:26:55

We have to be able to explain to them, and like you said, we don't necessarily have to be somebody that's extremely well trained in it, but everybody, to some level, needs to be some type of a theologian,

01:27:12

I would think, even as a mom in our home with our children, and just preparing them to be able to answer questions when their friends ask them, or if they're playing games with somebody, and there's somebody on the other end playing the video game with them, and they can't see him or talk to him, but they're able to have conversations.

01:27:31

I hear my boys having conversations about that they're Christians and that they're not allowed to do your testing or different things like that, and these kids respect them, and they stay online and play with them, knowing that, hey, this kid's a

01:27:45

Christian, and just little things like that that help to prepare our kids just for when they leave, and like Pete said, to be able to answer why they believe what they believe.

01:27:56

Man, I would like to jump in real quick before we pivot off of that. You know, one of my most favorite stories in the

01:28:06

Bible is in the Gospels when Jesus healed a man, and they were, you know, people around were trying to debate the man on his healing, and he was just saved, just healed, and was like, you've seen me struggle with this my entire life.

01:28:25

You know who I am. And he was probably one of the greatest apologists of all time, at least the top ten.

01:28:35

He made the cut in the Gospels, and he just got saved. Was there a cut, by the way?

01:28:43

Yeah, I guess there was a cut. Like the Hall of Faith, you know, there was a cut. But, you know, and I want to squash this idea because I know that we are, you know, as they say, like secular humanism, you know, insufficient education, insufficient medicine, you know, insufficient government, we need more of that, that's the answer to the world, you know, therefore, consume and enjoy, and this is where we're at.

01:29:11

And in that, I think the new rock stars of today are atheists.

01:29:18

You know, they're intellectuals, and they're highly educated, and they're just, they're in that academic world, and they intellectually bully, you know, the church, and a lot of them are winning, and we do love guys that are well -studied in Scripture and in apologetics, and, you know, and we need that because it's really encouraging when some of these debates are recorded and we hear them on podcasts or we see them on YouTube and things like this.

01:29:53

But there's been, in that, because we have so much access to just about anything that you want, when we're learning how to defend our faith and we're watching some of these guys that are just really heady, very intellectual, somebody that can stand toe -to -toe with a

01:30:12

Christopher Hitchens or, you know, things like this, or a Sam Harris, it makes the normal believer think that, oh, you've got to be that guy, and then those that are blessed with an intellectual mind, they don't ever stop to think, okay, listen,

01:30:31

I'm up here in the stratosphere because I'm debating Sam Harris, but there's hardly any.

01:30:38

There's only one Sam Harris in the world. There's very few people that can think at this level and are allowed to debate at this level.

01:30:47

You don't have to be an intellectual to give reason why you believe what you believe, and so I'd like to squash this little circle that's going around of these really heady people and just say, hey, listen, they're doing a job that's before them, but that is just a very rare case in a very small percentage of people, and that's not everyday life.

01:31:14

Yeah, and unfortunately, even though the majority of Americans, for instance, claim to believe in God, we know that that alone does not save them because it's very, very obvious that America is not dominated by actually regenerate

01:31:30

Christians, but it's sad because these people who are either nominal

01:31:38

Christians or, yeah, they believe that God exists, but it's not really our business to really know much about him and all that.

01:31:47

They use these atheists and their arguments as a further salve for their conscience just to live any way they want to live and to rebel against Christ and so on, and so I routinely, with young people, when

01:32:01

I get into discussions about the Lord, they will bring up the arguments of some of these guys as their way of hiding from their own responsibility before God, who will be their righteous and wrathful judge one day if they don't repent.

01:32:18

Yes, and I'll tell you this, just to say it on record, there is nothing worse and more,

01:32:28

I don't know, nothing more reminiscent of a clanging gong than a non -intellectual trying to copy an intellectual on YouTube in real life.

01:32:43

There's nothing more gross. I think people, we just need to be ourselves. Well, let's take apologetics into the four walls, or how many walls you have in your home, and Kelly, I believe it was your actual desire to speak on this today, so tell us about why this is important.

01:33:07

Actually, it was Pete's. Oh, it was Pete's, okay. It was actually Pete's, yes, it was his. That was kind of something he wanted to definitely talk about, and I'll for sure chime in here and there.

01:33:19

Okay, well, Pete, go ahead. Why is this important to have apologetics in your own home in addition to when you are out and about and meeting with strangers and especially the lost?

01:33:31

Well, my wife is just being super courteous, and I'm going to throw her in the mix here, too, because she's the one that, as a mom that's homeschooling, and building, has helped build the majority of the kids' foundation.

01:33:46

You know, while I'm working, she's schooling them, so I want definitely her to share what kind of foundation she is building.

01:33:55

But as far as apologetics in our own home, I was talking to Vody Bokum a couple of weeks ago, and we share a lot of things in common.

01:34:05

He was here in Texas, and one of the things that we really love is jiu -jitsu.

01:34:13

And, you know, we use a lot of, you know, there's just so many parallels to the

01:34:18

Christian walk and in our sanctification process and learning that, you know, a martial art like that, you know, just kind of runs right alongside of it.

01:34:29

So it's really hard for me not to give a lot of martial arts scenarios and examples in a sermon because there's just so many.

01:34:39

But I do, at least once a month, I'll throw something in there. But, you know, with my kids,

01:34:45

I do jiu -jitsu with my kids, and so does Vody as well. And it's just something that I do with my children, and it's some bonding time, and we get to exercise in their homeschool, so it gives them a sport.

01:34:57

It also gives them some, you know, I feel good about them learning how to protect themselves. But right now it's just a game, and it's fun, and, you know, we'll walk in on our boys, and one of them will have the other one in a guard or a rear naked choke, and they're just having fun with each other.

01:35:14

And, you know, and we have this thing while we are, we have it on Monday.

01:35:20

And here at the church, we have jiu -jitsu classes here at the church, so Monday and Friday we have classes. And in this time there's some instruction time where we stretch, and then the instructor, the coach, will give us some moves, and we'll work really slow, and this is the reason why you do this, and this is the angle that you have, and this is where you would use it, and it's this and this and this and that.

01:35:44

And it's all teaching, and it's all real slow pace, and it's almost classroom.

01:35:49

You're kind of sitting around here watching somebody just use an example, and then at the end of the session, at the end of the class, there's this thing called live roll.

01:35:58

And a live roll is you put in your mouthpieces, you pick a partner, and you fight.

01:36:06

You go at it. Something like a church business meeting, you mean. And I tell my church, if you don't like what

01:36:16

I say, at any point on a Sunday, you can come on Monday and choke me out for it.

01:36:25

Some of the guys put a little extra oomph in it. I would never say that to Votie Balcom ever, ever, ever.

01:36:33

I tried to roll with Votie. I was like, let's roll. We're going to roll next time you're in Texas. But I tell you what,

01:36:40

I don't think I can handle it. He's in a different weight class for sure. That's a big dude. So we have this thing called live roll, and what live roll is, you go at a certain speed to just give you the feel for ever being attacked, ever being in a situation.

01:36:58

Because if you just went just for the classes and there was no live roll, the moment you did get attacked, you wouldn't know what to do.

01:37:05

The very first time that you get in a live roll situation, you panic. You kind of freak out.

01:37:11

You're being smothered. You're being choked, or somebody's putting you in an arm bar. And I'm serious, it really does, it really is overwhelming.

01:37:19

And, you know, like I was telling you earlier, there was that guy was standing two feet from him. He was bleeding from his artery.

01:37:25

Before that, I didn't know if he was a threat. I was ready for the next move. And my heart rate was as cold as ice the entire time.

01:37:33

Live rolling really does help you in a situation like that. And what parents are doing, they're doing the part of instructing and showing and breaking things down and stuff like this.

01:37:47

And they're not live rolling with their kids. They're not challenging their kids in certain ways.

01:37:52

I can give some examples if you want later. And when they throw them out to college, throw them out in the real world, they're getting into these fights and just being overwhelmed and losing.

01:38:04

And each time they do lose, it shakes their faith. So it is very important to live roll theologically with your kids at home.

01:38:15

Yeah, I was just astonished when I had a conversation recently with the mother of one of my pastors who is from Ireland.

01:38:27

She is visiting the United States right now. And she was having a conversation with her four -year -old granddaughter.

01:38:36

And she said to her four -year -old, remember, four years old, she says to her granddaughter,

01:38:43

How many persons are in God? And the kid looks up at the grandmother and says,

01:38:49

You mean the Godhead? Laughter So, I mean, you know that the kids are being trained apologetically in that house.

01:39:01

But what are some of the primary things that you think children need to at least start their apologetics training on in your own home by their parents?

01:39:13

Because, obviously, time is precious. You can't be going into the depths and intricacies of the heresies of Swedenborgianism unless, of course, there's

01:39:24

Swedenborgianist in your family or next door. But, I mean, what do you pick when it comes to the primary things that children especially, and even teenagers, should know?

01:39:36

I'll let Kelly, she does all the showing and the breaking down and stuff like that, and I'll give you the live roll version that I do with my kids.

01:39:45

But I'll have her go through just what she picks and what she does in the material and that whole foundation that she helps set with them.

01:39:55

Which, of course, he's being quite humble because, of course, they get quite a bit every

01:40:00

Sunday when they're sitting at church. I'm proud to be humble. I, of course, love the catechism.

01:40:10

That, to me, is a huge thing because it covers all the doctrines.

01:40:18

It covers all the things that they need to know. I actually have them just on a,

01:40:24

I think it's every other day, they're writing a few of the catechism questions, and I just have them go through it, and when they finish, they're going to start over and they're going to do it again.

01:40:35

They're just going to keep doing it. That helps, of course, with their practice, their handwriting, but it also helps just feel that in their mind.

01:40:45

That's probably the biggest thing. Of course, when they come to me and they're telling me, when I was a mom, I was playing this game, this so -and -so game, and this kid started saying this.

01:40:55

You know, I've got two younger boys, the 11 and 12 -year -old. The 11 -year -old is definitely just naturally a good communicator and naturally a good debater, and so I have to just try to keep him from just trying to crush people.

01:41:12

Hey, you've got to just chill out. You've got to have mercy. He comes at you like a

01:41:20

Reformed Baptist. Hey, babe, you've got to have mercy on these kids because they don't know, and they're maybe not growing up in the same situation, and they're not as blessed as you to be able to just hear this stuff all the time.

01:41:37

Hold on. I'm going to say this so he'll be embarrassed later. He came up to us and said,

01:41:43

Mom and Dad, I can't wait to learn all this stuff about the Bible so I can just crush atheists.

01:41:50

I'm like, God, that's not the purpose of the Bible. Yes, that's not the reason.

01:41:57

But anyway, so they'll come to me when they're playing or talking with their friends or whatever, and I just try to give them the right thinking on something like in that situation.

01:42:11

That's kind of where my part of things at home is just giving them perspective and giving them examples and just trying to help them in their character and not just their behavior.

01:42:26

It's so easy for us to look at behavior and manage that when in reality we need to be really focusing on their character, and that's to me what helps them once they leave the house because then it's not because they're afraid to be disciplined.

01:42:40

It's because they are truly being convicted by the Lord. And then Pete will come in and step in and start just asking questions and playing like he's an atheist, which is awesome, and I'll let him share about that.

01:42:54

In fact, we're going to go to our final break right now. It's going to be much briefer than the last one, so you could pick up where you left off when we return if anybody wants to join us.

01:43:03

We do have several people waiting to have their questions asked, so please be patient, and we'll get to as many of you as possible in the brief time that we have left.

01:43:11

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. If you'd like to join them and get in line, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:43:17

Don't go away. We will be right back right after these messages from our sponsors. I'm Pastor Billy Linhart of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas, and I'm thrilled to have joined the

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01:47:21

Hey, this is Pete Orta, former guitar player for the Grammy Award winning Christian rock band, Petra. I'd like to invite you to my new podcast called

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So go to PeteOrta .com. That's P -E -T -E -O -R -T -A dot com and click subscribe to podcast and then choose what podcast you'd like to hear, if not both, and what platform works best for you.

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Spread the word about FirstLoveRadio .org. Welcome back.

01:54:52

I already know that I've got to have Pete and Kelly Orta back on the program again soon because we're rapidly running out of time and it seems like we've only been on for five minutes.

01:55:01

But we do have a listener. Before you go into anything you'd like to say, Pete, about the apologetics with your own children, we do have a listener,

01:55:11

CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who asks, What do you say to a child who asks you if he is going to heaven?

01:55:21

Obviously, there are Christians who have very different answers to that question from their own children.

01:55:27

In fact, Baptists and Presbyterians often answer those questions differently and even Baptists and Presbyterians disagree with their own members in their own denomination.

01:55:37

So how would you approach this situation with your own children? Well, that's a good question.

01:55:45

And we've been asked the same thing by our kids. And the thing that a parent wants to naturally do is assure their kids that they're saved and they're going to heaven.

01:55:58

You want to do that. I remember being asked that from a couple of my children.

01:56:04

And, you know, you want to soften it. You want to go, well, you are, and you kind of want to almost tie the knot yourself and say a prayer with them, which you can.

01:56:16

I have with my children and different things like this. But I, as far as me personally, and then

01:56:26

Kelly could probably answer maybe some experiences she's had with our kids, but I just treat them like a lost sinner when they ask that.

01:56:35

I treat them like a Nicodemus. And I say what salvation is, and I say that we're saved by faith.

01:56:46

And I think a kid in a believing home like this that's asking, I let them know the sheer fact that you are asking shows that you're seeking the

01:56:58

Lord, shows that, you know, and why are you asking? So I'll ask questions back. You know, do you love Jesus?

01:57:03

Why do you love Jesus? And so, you know, I wouldn't just go this or this or that. Now, I'm against the

01:57:11

Charles Finney way. I'm against, you know, saying, you know, asking Jesus into your heart when, you know, we should be asking for a new heart.

01:57:19

You know, that's, it's not keeping the old one, and we all know that. I mean, all of us here, if you're

01:57:25

Reformed and you're on here, you understand where I'm coming from. But I think that it is important if your kids, and I was talking about, you know, we were talking about earlier not having an exact date, but I think it is, it's important for your kids to have some sort of prayer, not of salvation, but profession, just to say, hey, you know what, you know, just that very question, and I'm asking you, and you're kind of getting into your kid's heart.

01:57:53

Is it just curiosity? You know, or are they just young and going, oh, I want to be in Heaven with you?

01:57:59

Well, that's a means to their grace, wanting to be, you know, in kind of the same thinking that their parents are, and want to be in Heaven with their parents, too.

01:58:08

I mean, even my kids are really young, and they're like, they were asking us last night at dinner, are we going to even know that we are each other, and are you not going to be my dad?

01:58:19

You're going to be my brother in Christ? There was kind of a sadness, because he's just thinking in human attributes, and so am

01:58:25

I. So there's this thing that they want to be with us, and I think that's a means to their child's grace.

01:58:35

I know that we always talk about the means to grace that the Lord might use in our life, and even tragedy or pain, or things that are, you know, some of our struggles are a means to grace, along with the gospel, and somebody preaching that gospel, and us being involved in church, and things like that.

01:58:51

But a little child, the covenant family is a means to their grace, so their desire, like, am

01:58:58

I going to heaven, that concern, I will talk to them about it, and once I get their heart, and I can kind of see where their heart is,

01:59:06

I'm like, you know what, let's pray. Let's pray, and like, thank you, Lord, for saving us, and making our heart want you, and that's like professing your faith.

01:59:21

That's a saved person that is praying that with all their heart.

01:59:27

It just shows conversion, so I'll go that route. And Kelly, you have about 30 seconds, and then we have to schedule you for another interview.

01:59:36

Okay. Kelly? Is Kelly there?

01:59:43

Oh, I guess, I don't know if she might. I'm sorry, I'm here, I'm here. You have about 30 seconds to wrap up, say anything you'd like, because we are rapidly running out of time.

01:59:53

Okay, so Zayd and I had that conversation the other day. He just was talking about that he was kind of afraid that he, what if I'm not, and I told him kind of essentially what

02:00:01

Pete said. It's like the fact that you're looking, you know, you're asking that question shows that there's concern in your heart, and so I told him too, you know, just are you, or is there sorrow for your sin?

02:00:13

Do you feel convicted when you're doing things that you know that would hurt the Lord and that would not please

02:00:19

Him, and you know, and he said, yes, I do, and so that helped, even just asking that question just to help bring some assurance in that, you know, he is desiring, you know, to be with the

02:00:30

Lord and to be with us for eternity. So, yeah. Well, we are out of time now, but I definitely want you to hold on the line so I can reschedule you for another interview, but I want to thank you both.

02:00:44

Do you have any contact information that you care to give, and you want to remind folks how to listen to your podcast?

02:00:52

It's PeteOrta .com, P -E -T -E -O -R -T -A dot com, and I try to keep things pretty current on that.

02:00:59

Great. Well, thank you so both. If you could please stay on the line so I could say a proper goodbye to you and also schedule you for another interview.

02:01:06

I want to thank everybody who listened, everybody who's waiting for their questions to be asked and answered.

02:01:11

You can have those questions brought up next time when we have Pete and Kelly return.

02:01:17

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.