May 7, 2019 Show with Pete & Kelli Orta on “Apologetics in Your Own Home”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us.

Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris

Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming and iron sharpens iron radio

.com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this seventh day of May 2019.

And I am so thrilled to have both a first -time guest and a returning guest

to iron sharpens iron radio today.

First of all, the returning guest is Pete Orta.

He is or was the lead guitarist for Petra from 1996 to

2000 and that renowned Christian rock group is a Gospel Hall of Fame

inductee and Pete is also a winner of a golden

record or should I say gold record a Dove Award.

Nominee for three Grammys and Grammy winner for Gospel Rock Album of the Year for the award -winning

album Doubletake he was a contributor of production techniques to the

soundtrack for the film left behind world at war and Subsequent to a genuine rebirth in

Jesus Christ.

He is now pastoring a reformed congregation Called Cottonwood Creek Church in Denison, Texas.

And I'm so delighted that for the very first time his lovely wife Kelly Orta is joining him on the program.

And they are going to both be discussing Apologetics in your home and it's my honor and privilege to

welcome you both to iron sharpens iron radio.

For the first time together on the program.

Pete and Kelly Orta.

We're glad to be here.

Oh, I'm thrilled that you're both here and I had a great time with Pete last time and I'm sure I'll have an even better

time with both of you now that you're both on right.

And Before I go into our theme at hand

today apologetics in your home.

Let me first of all give our listeners our email address.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

That's CH r .i .s. They are NZ energy email that common please if you're sending in a question, give us at

least your first name city and state and country of residence and That is your country if you live outside the

USA and Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Well, Kelly as I told you before the show We have a tradition on iron trip and Zion radio whenever

we have a first -time guest.

We try to make sure that we have time To allow them to give a summary of

their testimony of how they were saved.

Give us if you could something about a description of What kind of religious

atmosphere you were raised in if any and what providential?

Circumstances our Sovereign Lord used to draw you to himself and save you.

Yeah, I'd love to.

Well.

I am Actually was born in home.

It was a I say Christian home.

My mother was a Christian and she was the one who took us to church.

My dad Was not around and when he was he really wasn't engaged.

He ended up leaving When I was about seven but but my mom was

saved a couple of years before I was born and We went to a non -denominational church

at that time.

We eventually ended up in the charismatic church, but I would not call the the first church

really.

I.

Went to my mom when I was six years old and told her that I wanted to ask Jesus into my heart and we did

that and I was Very serious about it then and I think I was eight when I

was baptized.

And so, you know, I grew up Thinking in professing that I was a Christian.

Unfortunately, the churches that I went to did not teach a

good understanding of Salvation and God's sovereignty and you know, all the things that we

learned typically in the Reformed faith and so.

Because I was in my nature.

I'm just I just tend to be more moral.

So even if I wasn't a Christian, I would still try to do the right thing I think and so my my

salvation then because of the lack of understanding of God's sovereignty and election and those

important doctrines.

I was, you know relied on my work and I don't really know if I ever

thought that my work saved me, but I think you know, I think a lot of Americans

struggle with feeling like we have to earn it in some way whether it's through prayer or You know just what

we're doing.

But so there was some self -righteousness definitely involved and you know, Pete and I got married and

gosh as you heard his story.

Before.

We are completely opposite is in our personality.

And you know, he's he just he doesn't have a moral compass it's only because of Christ that you

know.

He was he was the wild one and and I was you know, the the more I

guess calm and you know, I don't know quiet one to a certain extent, but I

Think really when it comes down to it.

We came to a place in our marriage when we were in the music industry where we were just floundering I mean it was

not good.

We did we were never counseled before marriage.

We never had anybody really step in and want to help us help mentor him

or anything like that.

It just never never seemed to happen that way.

And so As our marriage was falling on, you know, we were both

dealing with different things.

Of course in my nature I'm looking at what he's doing or not doing.

You know if he had hurt me or struggling with different sin or whatever I'm I'm focused on what he's doing

and really not understanding my own sin.

And so I think through all that and just putting different

You know different people and things in our lives to draw us to you know.

To the face that we have now I started to realize that my goodness.

I've got my own Sinful wretched heart to deal with and you

know, so I it's as far as Salvation.

I don't know when he saved me.

I just know that it was a Obviously just like everybody a journey to get to

that place of true understanding of you know.

Of the gospel and and again my salvation and what I was

even being saved from and so, you know To give you an exact, you know moment in

time I can't but that is the journey that you know.

That the Lord kind of had me walk through just figuring out that man even

to me I think a moral person is even harder if it's even

more I guess miraculous salvation.

Sometimes I think because oh, yeah, we're just because of our sin not being blatant and in

everybody's face.

You know, it can be either secret or just what what's going on in our head, you know a lot of the time I think

that it's not more miraculous because we are the type of people that think that we don't need a

Savior or think that you know, we We can save ourselves.

So Through our works, like I said, so that's that's my story.

Well, praise God for it.

And that is interesting how Jesus's harshest words of condemnation and

rebuke were for the self -righteous religious folks and he

he was far more gentle and compassionate in his pro an approach to those that

most people at the time and and today as well would look down upon as the

the down the the outcasts the the dregs of society the worst of the worst

the The thieves and the prostitutes and so on the sexually, yeah

perverse and promiscuous.

And when they came to him, he just had a very different approach, but he had no

tolerance for the the unrighteous.

Who were in their minds righteous?

Right, right exactly.

And I mean I and I thank God so has had

mercy on me.

And it could be that you

know.

My self -righteousness was out of ignorance because I didn't know because I wasn't being taught like I

should have been.

You know, but either way, you know, I look I don't like that person.

God's great and in my life.

Amen, and I don't want anybody to miss Hear something.

I just said because I may have fumbled with words Improperly, I didn't mean to indicate that Jesus Tolerated

the immoral sexually and those that were thieves and so on.

I just meant that he he was more compassionate towards them and less severe in his rebuke

to them.

But but so now let's hear.

I mean, I'm sure that Pete if my memory serves me, right.

I'm sure that he told me the story of how you two met but you maybe you might have a completely different story.

Because it's coming from it's coming from a different angle.

So, yeah, we let's see I was so the second church that I went to the one that I mentioned that was the

more charismatic one.

That's where we met.

We went to the same high school, but we hadn't really met there.

I think he had seen we'd

seen each other there and find a keyboard player and so they

knew that you find keyboard players at churches, so that's where they went and they just happened to show up at our

church and.

Which is funny now that I think about it because it was in a it was in an old Mall, and I don't even know if

people realize that that was that actually a church.

But anyway, um, so they showed up there and that's how we met but I actually dated his

so that that wasn't my finest.

Haha.

Anyway, so

but Pete and I throughout that horrifying Relationship we actually were

became really good friends and so we were I mean I don't I don't know if I'd call us best friends, but we were pretty

close friends for about a year and a half and then.

Um, we, after I had broken up with that other guy, cause he was just not a nice guy at the

time and, um, could be now, but it wasn't been.

And so, uh, but so me and Pete just stayed friends and then, yeah, we just ended up deciding that, gosh,

you know, this, this is, this could be something.

And so we dated for a couple of years and then we got married when, when I was 19 and he was 21, so

we got married, we got started pretty young.

Wow.

That is a pretty amazing though, that, uh, you got married pretty young and you're still married to the same

spouse.

So it's, uh, yeah, you're both still married to the same spouse.

Yeah, that's the, I guess that's the grace I was talking about earlier too.

Cause I mean, we so

easily have words, you know, do you, did you choose our

marriage to continue when we see so many around us that don't, and I don't know why, you know, other

than it's just, you know, for his glory, we're grateful for it

because I don't want to start over with somebody else.

Now, uh, from Pete's testimony, uh, he, even when he was

performing with Petra and even when he went on to, into a solo career with a

debut album, born again, he admitted on the show that

I think it may have been the first public time that he admitted this from what I recall on Iron Sharp and

Zion radio, but that he was not, that he was not born again when he was, uh,

in the height of his professional music career as a Christian, as a professing Christian, I should say.

Yes, yes.

And, uh, now did you, were you confident of the fact that he was not born again?

Uh, and, and perhaps you could also give me a timeline of when

you think you came to true saving faith, was it before Pete or after, and also

when you came to embrace the doctrines of reform theology?

You know, I didn't, it didn't ever dawn on me that he was not truly saved, um, during that time

because of my lack of understanding of what, you know, the fruit of, of what the fruit

of sin.

So when we got married, we both thought we were Christians, you know, and again, I could have been, I don't, I just,

I, I don't know if it wasn't just in the earlier stages of it and it was just this long journey he was

walking me through at that time, you know, but you know, seeing Pete speak in churches and, and

in different events, I mean, I, what I heard him saying, it sounded that way to me, but of course, as

really when it came down to it, when everything started hitting the fan and,

um, that is when, that is when it was really starting to be clear that we

were not right, that, that I, my understanding of the word and of God was not right.

And so it was his, because he would say things like, you know,

well, yeah, he would just basically say, Hey, you know, God's not involved.

I mean, he just, yes, he's the creator.

He made us, but he just spin the world and on its axis and just hands off.

And that never sounded right to me.

But again, because of my lack of understanding, I, I didn't really know how to refute it.

And so I just kind of bothered me.

I said, he was kind of going through this season of, of, of being jaded and kind of pulling

away and, and, but that was at the end.

So while we were in Nashville, while he was in the industry, you couldn't have told me at that time that he wasn't

saved.

I would have argued with you.

And so it wasn't until the Lord just started that

stripping us that, um, that at that point he just

started putting things in our path and our, you know, as far as just, you know, things that

he was reading with Spurgeon and with, and then scroll somehow came across this path.

And then, so we just started digging in and, and that was, I would say.

You know, 10, 12 years ago, um, that that really started

that we really started diving into all that and understanding and studying.

And, and I mean, he studied heavily for the first four years, just always

learning, always, um, trying to consume information and be a good student.

And because he wanted to know he's, he's, uh, he's naturally a thinker and

playing the devil advocate.

And so he really wanted to know why he believed what he believed.

And, and, and, and of course, through that process, he started to disciple me.

And then that's, that's when it happened as far as just our understanding came together and our

marriage just started to grow again after that, just in understanding God's

life and that it wasn't about us and how we felt, you know, and really starting to

understand at that point that our marriage was not about us being happy.

It was so that we would be holy and that it would glorify the Lord.

And so, you know, that's, I think that's pretty much the story and the timeline is that

I hope that I made it clear for you.

Oh yeah, sure.

And, uh, you reminded me to give a loving rebuke to all of my

fundamentalist friends out there.

Uh, I don't want to broad brush because I don't believe all of my fundamentalist

Baptist friends believe this way.

Uh, but many, uh, too large a number, uh, believe that you cannot

be born again unless you can remember the day and the hour you were saved.

And I'm sorry if I'm laughing at you folks, but that, that's absurd because that would, uh, that

would require, uh, omniscience.

I mean, that would be required and that would be required knowing your heart a lot better than anyone really does know it.

Uh, we're saved by faith and grace, not by date.

Right.

Well, I mean, and who's to say that John the Baptist could have even said, been able to answer that

because, you know, yes, we, we know from the writings in the, in the, in scripture that he was

saved in the womb, but you know, would he have been able to say that, you know, when he was six years old, but

that's when he was saved, if somebody was, I don't know.

Maybe he was sitting around bragging with his friends when they were telling him the moment they were saying, Hey, well, I got

that top.

I was saved in the womb.

Okay.

I look for joy.

Oh, that's funny.

I don't know about that.

I don't want to, I don't want to offend anybody, but I can't, I can't tell you.

I mean, if I was to go by when I was six and I could tell you then, but you know, it's hard because I'm like,

I didn't have even a close understanding of what it really meant.

I just knew in my heart that that's what I wanted.

And so was it the Jesus that I had kind of developed in my own mind during those years of what I

thought he was?

Um, you know, I don't know, but I just know that I am now.

That's, that's what really matters because, because actually if people get too hung up

on the day they believe they were saved, they might be perpetuating a false

conversion that never really took place at all.

They just think in their minds.

Well, I remember when I held my hand up at the Bible camp when I was eight and I went forward, I

know that that's when I was saved and they may be carrying that with them for decades as some kind of

a treasured possession, this memory, and it may have been a false conversion for them.

So remembering these things does not prove anything.

And I cannot be certain either when I was saved.

In fact, there are, I think there are people on the elder board of my church that still do not believe I'm saved.

I'm only kidding.

But the, the, uh, the, the, the, the, the timeframe that I

believe with some sense of confidence that I was saved is

when I went from being terrified to be baptized

to being, I can't wait to being excited and impatient

and just wanting to get baptized because I wanted everybody that I knew and loved to witness that, to witness my

public, my public profession of dedication to Christ.

Uh, and my, my transformed life due to his grace and mercy alone.

And especially my Roman Catholic family and friends.

I wanted them to hear that.

And I, I, I think that that, when that switch went off, when I went from, uh, I can, I can remember, uh,

um, hearing from the pulpit, uh, calls, uh, to,

uh, if you really think that you have come to faith in Christ and you are not

baptized, uh, you are disobeying him.

And I remember being physically trembling over it and I just couldn't do it because I didn't, I don't think that

I was at a point where I was ready to abandon the

idols in my life, which included addiction and so forth, uh, addiction to alcohol.

Uh, but, uh, I also, I think was ashamed of the gospel to a certain extent because I

didn't want to publicly declare something in front of people.

And also because I was not regenerate, I don't believe.

Uh, so, um, uh, so therefore when that, when that changed, that radical

transformation in my attitude took place, I thought, I believe that that's one way to say, but,

uh, we are going to go to our very first break right now.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for, uh, Pete and Kelly Orta,

and when we come back, you have to tell us about this ministry that you've both run,

uh, where you have actually purchased a home large enough where you have invited

people who are really, uh, experiencing great difficulties and trials in their

lives, uh, where they, they cannot maintain a proper

lifestyle independently yet, uh, and you have welcomed them into your home and you could give us more

details on that.

But, uh, when we come back, I want to hear about that because that is also an amazing story when

I think of the far less significant and

serious things that cause couples to break up and cause couples to

be in a constant state of war with each other and the way that you two have welcomed people into your

home and dedicated your lives to this ministry.

It's just a very, uh, uh, breathtaking and impressive and awe

inspiring story.

But, uh, if anybody wants to join us, as I said, send us an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

And as always, give us your first name, your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA and please only remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pete and Kelly Orta right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Hey, this is Pete Orta, former guitar player for the Grammy award winning Christian rock band Petra.

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The purpose of this podcast is to help people apply their theology while broadening their biblical worldview.

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We are back with Pete and Kelly Orta.

Pete was the lead guitarist for Petra from 1998 to

2000, and he and his wife Kelly are on the program discussing apologetics in your own home.

Pete currently pastors Cottonwood Creek Church in Jennison, Texas, which is a Reformed Baptistic

congregation.

And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail

.com.

And just to tell you a little funny story about that commercial you just heard, Pete and

Kelly, the commercial for Solid Ground Christian Books, I was interviewing a pastor from South

Carolina, and he happened to be in the studio with me because he had moved here to

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And he heard the ad, and during the station break, he was laughing.

And if you recall, someone with a British accent is imitating Charles Spurgeon in the ad,

and my pastor friend started laughing.

And he said, that's the funniest English accent I've ever heard in my entire

life.

And I said, brother, that man is from England.

Every time I hear the ad, I'm reminded of that incident.

That's funny.

Well, tell me about, tell us, I should say, our listeners as well, about this

phenomenal ministry that you have that actually required you purchase a much

larger building that you now call your home, your residence, that enabled you to fulfill

the ministry, the ministry's requirements to get people into your home and have them

basically a place where they can restart and get back on their feet and so on.

Tell us about this.

Well,

not

really being

because of just our involvement in, you know, kind of the Christian rock industry and just

music.

You know, there's

pastors around a lot of Christian people.

There is a, there's a whole other subculture of Christianity and

kind of the, how the church and how missions operate.

I'm very familiar now understanding those dynamics.

And now that I look back, we really started that whole thing in an unorthodox way.

You know, completely set up and done the hard way, but we just didn't, we didn't know.

And I don't even think that I'm not, but I

don't even know of a lot of churches that would even, they would probably give you a thumbs up like, hey, go for it.

But I don't think so.

You know, it was probably for the best.

I would assume God knew what he was doing.

And so I talked to my wife and, you know, I just wanted to help young people at

that time that came from the type of background that I had.

And you know, so we didn't know where to start.

You know, I wanted to help young people out from about 18 to 24.

I thought that was a good age to bring them in.

And it was an age where if they hadn't ended up in prison yet, even if

they had been to jail maybe once or twice just for some minor things that we could,

you know, we could kind of help them set on their path.

And we wanted to, we started off by helping

getting adopted.

And at that time, there wasn't a lot of help for them.

And, you know, there's even today, I mean, you can

you can you can raise fun whales and.

Exotic birds and trees and

even the disabled, there's a there's a heart there that that people want to pour out to, but not a

23 year old that hates the world.

There's no support for that.

You're not going to come in and, you know, you're not going to come in and go, oh, you're this is just so heartwarming.

And here's a blank check.

It doesn't operate like that.

And Chris, if you were to come in when we've got, you know, depending on the season, you know,

some of these guys might not even say hi to you or even might not even be happy that you're there.

So in that there's not really there's no hard strings to pull.

And you probably most people might not even want to donate to something like that.

It's not it's not Hollywood and and, you know, those other

those other needs are I'm sure they have their struggles and I'm and things like this.

But this is a and so we just

started pulling in people and didn't know how we were going to even support the

ministry.

But the Lord provided the story kind of buzzing around our community and people would stop

by and they would see all these kids, teenagers and young people that we had

that we were pulling in.

And I started out by calling foster care, you

know, children's homes and anybody that was aging out.

We would take them in and started calling a detention centers and saying, if there's somebody you can't handle, we

will send us your worst.

And, you know, a lot of institutions, they they, you know, a lot of them, man,

they just kind of want an ease.

They want the easy kids.

So you'll you'll find that a lot of these places that are helping, they they do want the easy kids.

And we understand that now, of course.

But so that's how we started.

And we just the Lord just provided.

We didn't have.

We didn't have a proper building, it was in our had an

HOA that we started realizing the more we were bringing in, you know, one or two is no big deal.

But as as more started coming in, once you have about eight plus our own kids in the house, you know,

we're we're kind of violating some rules.

So we started praying for a place to be and rent or ranch or something

like that.

And the Lord is definitely, you know, moved us from from one place to another.

And we ended up in an old hotel in Denison, Texas.

And it has been it has been quite the the experience here was talking

to a friend of mine this weekend, and he worked at a place

that took in young people as well.

And they're still going strong.

And he was just saying that residential ministry has got to be one of the hardest

ministries that that there is.

And he worked in this place as well, where they're handling, you know, these young people, you know, if they got

too crazy, they would kick them out.

And so they would give us a call when there was somebody that they couldn't handle.

Told him it is difficult.

I said, but can you imagine if you handed all your students the keys to your

your home?

He's like, man, I can't.

I said, that's what we're in.

We're in a situation where they can.

I mean, Kelly and I, we're not at home right now.

Anybody can go in our room, anybody can take what they want.

It's a right now we've got a couple, you know, we've got a couple of guys there that that are, you know, we definitely trust and

we're transitioning them out.

And they've got jobs and cars and we're making sure that they've got a good start.

And so we're in a good place where we can be here at the church.

And our kids are at the ministry right now.

But like that, just to help these young

people.

And it is a

very intense ministry.

And, you know, my wife and I, we've been on a sabbatical a few months.

We have not taken a sabbatical.

We've not taken a break.

And, you know, I mean, the only way that anybody could ever really understand is if I just dropped

off about six felons in your home that were all at the age of rebellion and said, good luck.

So we've been resting to

this time period that we've been given to just kind of, Chris, I've just

got to be honest.

Do do we continue in the same way that we continue?

Do we do we only because as time went

on, Chris, the young people went from foster care kids

and some kids that kind of were dealing with a

frantic drug addict dealer

on another level of insane.

And the danger started just rising and the exhaustion, if you can

imagine.

And I can't explain to people the

I wouldn't call it PTSD only because I respect our soldiers enough to not to

not carry that.

And nor would I even come close to it.

But a light version of that where you are always on guard,

you are always like a prison guard that never gets to leave.

But you have to sleep there in the cell with them.

It's like I can't describe it, but.

Well, but it's it's just it's tiring and it's exhausting and we're taking this time right now just

to kind of see, OK, hold on.

Do we do we back up and kind of go about the original mission

statement and and helping kind of a lighter cases of kids that actually want to get

better?

Are we or are we just caretakers for the mentally insane

and the reprobate that has just been handed over to their own demise around my own kids,

people with bigger staff, cameras and straitjackets to do.

And I and so I'm just questioning it.

Different things have happened during our sabbatical.

I was really exhausted last night.

We're trying to celebrate my wife's birthday.

And we were she was at the supermarket and we don't live in a great area.

And I said, I'm going to go with you just to make sure it's at night.

And she wanted to get some ice cream and make some desserts for the kids.

And just an example of like, I don't know if the Lord's trying to show me something, but I see this guy walking in the

parking lot and at the angle where he's walking, something doesn't look right, doesn't feel right to me.

And I'm like, drop me off right here, because where you're about to park, I don't want to be trapped in the vehicle as

this guy's approaching us.

And sure enough, something was not right.

I go straight up to him.

I'm I'm about two feet in front of him face to face.

And I'm like, man, are you OK?

And he's bleeding.

I got blood all over his head.

Got no shirt on blood all over his body.

And I'm sitting there talking to him and he's kind of just hyped up and amped up.

And I'm like, what is wrong?

And I see this stream of blood as we're talking, squirting out of his hand.

He hit an artery.

He got in a fight with somebody.

Who knows?

The other guy, they said, was in worse condition and he's bleeding all over me.

My shoes, my pants.

My skin, I was just kind of paranoid and and and where that

blood has been and everything like that, at the end of it, we get home, I'm showering, stripping down and just

scrubbing myself.

And and I'm so comfortable around walking violent

zombies that it's normal to me that I'm almost stepping back going.

This isn't right.

This is this is you know, and I'm just I'm just being honest with you.

Just I know we're live and I didn't talk to my wife about this.

I just told her I would take lead on on answering this.

But, you know, for that to be normal for you is going to get birthday ice cream and

getting the guy bleeding all over you

charge at me to be violent.

Or, you know, I was I need I call we call 911.

He needed help because that guy was bleeding out.

I mean, he probably just in the few minutes that he was there, probably bled out a pint.

It was I've never seen anybody bleed like this.

Just the constant stream.

And anyway, how did he get involved?

I told the police, I want to stay out.

I went home, got showered up.

We had some ice cream.

This is normal dynamic.

So we're looking at maybe a property where I can lock up my

family at night.

We can have our own little quarters, have little bungalows.

And if somebody wants to just be destructive, I'll handle it in the morning.

I mean, I so we're we're just in prayer about that.

But yes, it's extreme.

We've had some wonderful times, too.

It hasn't always not every season is like that.

It's protected us, protected my family.

And we

didn't have enough help.

We don't have any staff.

We don't have the funding because nobody wants to.

It's not hard.

So it's it's just a struggle.

And we're just looking at like, Lord, one, this one

place that also helped these young people on a lighter.

They were like, I don't know if you remember how many how much staff.

The full time.

And I think they go ahead.

It took in the same amount that we do.

Well, the 16 grown people on staff paid is just my wife and I, and I'm just.

So we're just we are we did have we did have

a director who we did take over and help a lot of the

years, not I would say, you know, seven, six, seven of the years that he has moved on.

And so that's where we're just kind of in that mode of, you know, wanting the Lord to just show us

the direction to go in and, you know, Pete has he still has the

desire to help these young people.

It's just it just needs to look a little bit different, whether it's our the property that we have or

the type of guys that we take in.

But I do want to say one thing real quick to something that has been really cool with the ministry is that.

Pete learned profiling, he learned how to profile, he learned how to

interview these people, because we wouldn't just take in anybody.

We you know, he would do like a two hour interview process just to make sure that that they weren't going to be

dangerous for our family.

This this started a little bit later on in the beginning.

We were just kind of taken whoever we could.

But he learned how to profile, which was awesome.

He, you know, understands the different personality types, which is

extremely so that's been a blessing.

And like you said, we've seen some of these young men that are

encouraging.

A lot of it can be discouraging.

And and, you know, we.

Can you hear me OK?

Yes.

Oh, yeah, I hear you perfectly.

I heard I heard a little bit of an echo of myself, so I wanted to make sure.

Anyway, so, you know, there has been God has completely used it in so many ways.

And but yeah, we just get to we've gotten to a point to where we're at a place of just saying,

Lord, please reveal to us, you know, what what we should do.

We know that there's a lot of young people out there who worship

and it doesn't even need to be or have to be the kind like like he's talking about that are just so

far gone.

We know that there's a group of young people out there that would love to be able to even have like a

residential place for six months to go and get some discipleship in between maybe high school and college or

high school and a career or whatever.

And we want to be able to do that.

And I know Pete still has a big heart for that.

So, you know, everybody could just be in prayer with, you know, the direction that we take.

Well, you know, now you have both made me really ashamed of myself because I have a

very close friend and brother who I won't even share a hotel room with him when we travel

because he snores.

I mean, in comparison to you guys, you don't.

I'm sorry.

I didn't hear what you said.

I'm sorry.

I don't feel bad.

Yeah, I don't feel bad.

I don't blame you.

Well, you've endured a lot worse than that.

Oh, in fact, I'm going to put you guys in touch with friends of mine that run the Timothy Hill

Children's Ranch, who they have strict requirements on who they take in.

But they are troubled youths, many of them.

In fact, most of them.

But they are children of prison inmates.

They are children of their abuse victims.

You know, sometimes their parents have abused or molested them, or sometimes their parents just cannot

have them remain in the house because of something that they are themselves struggling with.

But but and also to let our listeners know, Timothy Hill dot org, Timothy Hill dot org is

the website, Timothy Hill Children's Ranch.

But I'll tell you more about them when we go off the air.

We have to go to our first or I'm sure I'm sorry.

We have to go to our second station break right now.

This is the longer than normal station break that we have, because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida,

requires of us a longer break in the middle because they air their own public service announcements and local

commercials while we air our own commercials that are heard globally.

They have to localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida with their own identity and their own

public service announcements.

So please use this time wisely.

Write down questions for Pete and Kelly Orta, but also write down the information provided by our

advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.

Because as I keep reminding you, we require or we depend upon, we rely upon

the advertising dollars that come in from our sponsors in order to exist.

We could not exist without them.

So please, the more you patronize them whenever you can, the

more likely we will remain on the air for a longer period of time.

So please write down their information and also send in your questions to Pete and Kelly Orta.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question

involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pete and Kelly Orta.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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Hey, this is Pete Orta, former guitar player for the Grammy Award winning Christian rock band Petra.

I'd like to invite you to my new podcast called Christian Conversations Unfiltered.

This channel is much different than my sermon podcast.

The episodes are intimate conversations with people who I enjoy about topics that I can't really unbox from the pulpit.

Each episode is unproduced, unedited and unapologetic conversations that might not only help you answer some

relevant questions you might be struggling with, but also help create some questions in your head that you might not have even ever

thought of.

The purpose of this podcast is to help people apply their theology while broadening their biblical worldview.

So go to Pete Orta dot com.

That's p -e -t -e -o -r -t -a dot com and click subscribe to podcast and

then choose what podcast you'd like to hear, if not both, and what platform works best for you.

Can't wait for you to join us.

God bless.

Did you know that all believers are priests?

In First Peter chapter two verse nine, the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a

chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that

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I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, host of A Visit to the Pastors Study, and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising

family right here on Iron Sharpens Iron.

If you live on Long Island or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area, I invite you to join us for worship at The

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We meet at the Ascension Lutheran Church facility, 33 Bayshore Road in Deer Park, New York.

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Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, assistant professor of systematic theology at IRBS

Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of

God in the churches of our Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth

of Holy Scripture.

I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture

and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths.

Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them

to all of God's people.

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at IRBS Seminary dot org.

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Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about the Thriving Difference.

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do?

Could I just say, God bless you and walk away?

The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need.

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

So if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi,

39443.

Or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel,

Mississippi, 39443.

Or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you.

Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

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But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And remember, they have a phenomenal offer due to my very strong suggestion and

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He's one of my heroes who has become almost virtually unknown in the 21st century.

And that is a tragedy because Spencer Cone is a phenomenal man, or should I say was a phenomenal

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But Spencer Cone, his life is so phenomenal and extraordinary

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He was a teacher.

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He thought it was an ungodly profession, which was a common view in the 19th century of that type of

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And the accounts of his bravery are absolutely astonishing.

And of course, he was a pastor, including a long term as the pastor of First

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We just have a few very important announcements to make in regard to upcoming special events

that our sponsors are conducting.

Well, before I even talk about the events, I just want you to remind yourselves by writing it down on your calendar that

tomorrow, Terry L. Johnson returns to IRONSHARPENSIREN radio to discuss his book

published by The Banner of Truth, The Identity and Attributes of God.

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That's tomorrow, Wednesday, May 8th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern on IRONSHARPENSIREN radio.

Then, coming up after that, Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m.,

I'm having my next IRONSHARPENSIREN radio, Pastor's Luncheon, absolutely free of charge

at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

This is an event that my precious late wife, Julie, came up with and

started with me back in the 1990s when I was living in New York.

And she told me one Christmas season, why don't we forgo giving Christmas gifts to each other so we can

afford to treat your pastor friends to lunch?

She knew that I had more pastor friends than most people.

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So she said, let's treat your friends to lunch and why don't we get a good speaker to give them a

good message for men in the ministry and why don't we get some publishers to donate books

that they can take home with them?

And she just really had a burden on her heart for these men of God.

And we have continued, or I have continued this after she has gone home to be with the Lord

for eternity.

Now I conduct these events in her honor, in the honor of my late wife, Julie.

So Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall, Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

The guest speaker is Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

He is going to be doing a PowerPoint presentation on how the Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the

Bible, and every man is going to be leaving with a heavy sack or maybe even two heavy sacks of

free brand new books that I have personally selected from many major Christian publishers all over the United

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So you're probably going to be leaving there with between two and three dozen books, that's right, two

and three dozen books, absolutely free, and they are really good books, all

of them.

So please send me an email and register if you can make it out here to Carlisle, Pennsylvania,

May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall.

The email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and just put Pastor's

Luncheon in the subject line and I will register you immediately and invite all men that

you know in ministry leadership.

Sorry, ladies, this is a men's only lunch.

That was actually a strict requirement of my precious late wife.

In fact, even though I would beg her to come to the luncheon with me because it was her idea, I said to her,

honey, nobody's going to care that you're the only woman there because it's your idea, but she wouldn't listen.

She never would ever come to the luncheon herself.

So don't feel too bad, ladies.

My own wife wouldn't come to the luncheons that she actually established.

But this is a men's only lunch.

So send me an email if you're a man in ministry leadership, whether you're a pastor, an elder, and those are both the same office, by the way, a

deacon, parachurch, ministry leader, whatever type of leadership position you hold.

If you are a man, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and I will register you immediately.

Hope to see you there Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall, Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Dr. Costa will be preaching at a number of churches after that in New York.

He and I are packing up our bags and heading out to New York for the whole weekend where he is

speaking at New Hyde Park Baptist Church in Western Nassau County, Long Island,

Wading River Baptist Church in Central Suffolk County, Long Island, Hope

Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, also in Central Suffolk, and Missio Church in

Ridge, Long Island, which is in Eastern Suffolk County.

If you want a complete itinerary with the topics and the contact information for all of the churches involved, send me an

email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Dr. Tony Costa in the subject line.

I'll make sure I email you a complete itinerary.

Then I'm packing up my bags again and heading back to Pennsylvania, but this time I'm heading to Elizabethtown,

Pennsylvania to the Elizabethtown College where the Banner of Truth is having their

East Coast Ministers Conference.

The same requirements apply here.

If you are a man in ministry leadership, you are welcome to register.

I believe in the Holy Spirit is the theme and the guests are Jeff Kingswood, Terry Johnson, who

I just mentioned before, who's returning as our guest tomorrow on Iron Sherpens Iron, David Vaughn, Steve

Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligetier Ministries.

Michael Morales and Chad Vegas.

That's Tuesday, May 28th through Thursday, May 30th in Elizabethtown,

Pennsylvania.

If you would like to register, go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org, click on events, and then scroll down to

East Coast Ministers Conference.

I hope to see you there, ask around and look for me because I would love to see as many Iron Sherpens Iron radio listeners,

both old and new as possible at the East Coast Ministers Conference.

Then in December, December 19th and 20th, which is a Thursday and Friday, I am

going to be heading to New York City, my old stomping grounds, to the Foundations Conference,

a conference of sermonaudio .com, and they do a phenomenal job every time they

have this conference.

I am eagerly looking forward to returning.

The speakers include Dr. Stephen J. Lawson.

You've been hearing him every day advertise New Covenant Church, NYC, one of the sponsors of this program.

He is the founder of One Passion Ministries and an extraordinary preacher.

Paul Washer is on the roster and he is one of the finest preachers alive as well.

Rev. Jeff Thomas, another extraordinary preacher and author, retired after

over half a century pastoring the same church in Aberystwyth, Wales, Alfred Place Baptist Church,

what a fine man of God he is.

Rev. Armand Tomassian, a young pastor who has gifts and abilities far beyond his youth, and I am certain within the next

decade he is going to become a household name in Reformed circles because he is so gifted and so

profound and so powerful.

I am looking forward with bated breath to hear Armand preach again.

Richard Colwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley are two men I've never heard preach, but since Sermon Audio selected them, I'm sure they are

magnificent as well.

If you'd like to register for this event, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in New York City, the Foundations Conference,

go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com, and you can register

there.

And then I'm heading out in January of 2020 to the G3 Conference once again.

The G3 Conference, oh, I always have a absolutely phenomenal time at this event.

This one is going to be held from Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th

at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.

They are expecting, as they do every year, over 5 ,000 people to attend.

And as every year, they are having an absolutely extraordinary lineup of

speakers.

These lineups that they have, I don't even know how they could afford to handle these

conferences because of the very large roster of speakers that they have.

And it's just extraordinary.

One of them is a friend of mine who I actually referred to the G3 Conference and urged them to have him

speak there, and they finally took me up on my suggestion.

Kosti Hinn, yes, his last name is H -I -N -N Hinn, and if that name sounds familiar, it's

likely because of a very bad reason.

Kosti's uncle is the notorious Charlatan Benny Hinn, and Kosti has

repudiated, renounced, and repented of his Word of Faith background.

He is a Reformed Baptist today and a cessationist, and he is a pastor of a

Calvinistic Baptist church in California.

He is an extraordinary speaker as well, and I'm looking forward to hearing him at the conference.

David Miller, a good old -fashioned fire and brimstone preacher of extraordinary gifts, is going

to be there.

Derek Thomas, a name that is certainly familiar to all Reformed Christians, or at least most of them.

My friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, he is going to be speaking.

Joel Beeky is going to be speaking.

Josh Peiss, who is the founder of the G3 Conference.

Paul Washer and Stephen Lawson are also going to be on this roster, as they were

in New York City, or are, I should say, in New York City.

My friend Tom Askell, Dr. Tom Askell, who is the Executive Director of Founders Ministries, the

Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention.

And Voni Baucom, one of the finest speakers on the planet Earth as well.

So if you want to register, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

And I would strongly suggest you register for an exhibitor's booth as well, just as I will be manning there,

because as I said, there's over 5 ,000 people that they are expecting to attend.

So I strongly urge you to do that while they still have room for exhibitor's booths.

Go to g3conference .com.

And please tell them that you heard about their event from Chris Arnz and on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Always tell any of our advertisers that.

Also, I want to remind you, please, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, go to

irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

Once again, we are in urgent need of your donations.

We hit these rough spots about four times a year where they get very scary.

We wonder if we can continue doing the program because bills begin to mount up that we cannot

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And about four times a year, the contributions drastically drop

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And so please, if you can, if you love the show, donate very soon

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If you are not a member of a Bible -believing church and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against

God.

You have to rectify that situation.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put in the subject line, I need a church home and I can help you find one.

I have churches, biblically faithful churches on lists from all

over the world that I can refer you to.

I've already helped a number of people find churches in Australia and other countries and in the United States

and all over the 50 United States.

I can help you find one as well.

I can also help you find a church if you're going on vacation and want to be recommended to a church near where you're

vacationing.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church home or something similar in the subject line.

I will help you if I can.

And that is also the email address where you can send in a question to Pete and Kelly Orta.

We are now going to be heading into our discussion on apologetics in your own home.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And, you know, Pete and Kelly, we do have not only seasoned

Christians in the audience who already are fully aware of what apologetics means.

Many of them consider apologetics one of their life passions.

But we also have new Christians listening and we also have non -Christians listening sometimes.

So can you define for us, Pete, what is apologetics?

Apologetics is basically having a reason why we believe.

A lot of

people say

why you believe.

Sorry, I was pouring myself a cup of coffee.

And I put myself on mute when I do stuff like that.

So I apologize for that.

Yes, and one thing that some people make the mistake of believing is that only a

certain group of people who are highly educated and

who are professional seminary professors, or they

are published authors, or they are involved in some kind of high level of

academic instruction, and so on, they think they're the apologists, we don't need to worry

about that.

Well, every Christian, in his own way, is called

to be an apologist, are we not?

I mean, we're not all called to be experts on the cults, we're not all called to know Greek and Hebrew,

but we are called to be able to give an answer for the hope that lies within us.

Isn't that right, Kelly?

Oh, yes.

You know, I tend to think that same thing because we're so busy with our kids and the

home and things like that, but in reality, we've got to be that to our children.

We have to be able to explain to them, and like you said, we don't

necessarily have to be somebody that's extremely well trained in it, but

everybody, to some level, needs to be some type of a theologian, I would think, even as a mom

in our home with our children, be able to answer questions when their friends

ask them, and or if they're, you know, playing games with somebody, and there's somebody on the other end, you know, playing

the video game with them, and they can't see him or talk to him, but they're able to have conversations.

I hear my boys having conversations about, you know, that they're Christians and that they can't,

you know, that they're not allowed to hear cussing or different things like that, and these kids respect them, and they stay online and play

with them, knowing that, hey, this kid's a Christian, and just little things like that that help to prepare our kids just for when

they leave, and like Pete said, to be able to answer the, you know, why they believe what they believe.

I would like to jump in real quick.

You know, one of my most, a man, and

they were, you know, in his

healing, and he,.

Was there a cut, by the way?

Yeah, I guess there was a cut.

Like the hall of faith, you know, there was a cut.

But, you know, and I want to squash this idea,

because

I

know

that

we

are,

and

in

apology,

debating

Sam

Harris,

but people that can,

and are allowed, don't have to be an

intellectual to give reason why you believe what you believe,

and so I'd

like to

squash the

people, and that's not every.

Yeah, and unfortunately, even though the majority of Americans, for instance,

claim to believe in God, we know that that alone does not save them, because it's

very, very obvious that America is not dominated by actually regenerate Christians.

But it's sad, because these people who are either nominal

Christians, or yeah, they believe that God exists, but it's not really our

business to really know much about him, and all that, they use these atheists and their arguments as a

further salve for their conscience, just to live any way they want to live, and to rebel against Christ, and so

on.

So it's, I routinely, with young people, when I get into discussions about the Lord,

they will bring up the arguments of some of these guys as their way of hiding from their own

responsibility before God, who will be their righteous and wrathful judge one day if they don't repent.

Yes, and I'll tell you this,

then I'll be an intellectual.

Well, let's take apologetics into the four walls, or

how many walls you have in your home, and Kelly, I believe it was your actual

desire to speak on this today, so tell us about why this is important.

It was Pete.

Oh, it was Pete, okay.

It was actually Pete, yes, yeah, it was his.

That was kind of something he wanted to definitely talk about, and I'll for sure chime in here and there.

Okay, well, Pete, go ahead.

Why is this important to have apologetics in your own home, in addition to when you are out and about,

and meeting with strangers, and especially the lost?

Well, and my wife, my wife has just been the

mom foundation.

I mean, not to,

once a month, I'll throw something in there,

but, and it's

some bonding time, and we get to exercise,

you do this, and this is the angle that you have, and this is where you would use it, and it's this.

Something like a church business meeting, you mean?

And I tell my church.

I would never say that to Votie Balcom.

Ever, ever, ever.

I'll put

you in

an arm

bar,

and

I'm.

Yeah, I was just astonished when I had a conversation recently with

the mother of one of my pastors, who is from Ireland.

She is visiting the United States right now, and she was having a conversation

with her four -year -old granddaughter, and she said to her, remember,

four years old, she says to her granddaughter, how many persons are in God?

And the kid looks up at the grandmother and says, you mean the Godhead?

So, I mean, you know that the kids are being trained apologetically in that house, but what

are some of the primary things that you think children need to at least start

their apologetics training on in your own home by their parents?

Because obviously, time is precious.

You can't be going into the depths and intricacies of the heresies of

Swedenborgianism, unless, of course, there's Swedenborgianists in your family or next door.

But, I mean, what do you pick?

What do you pick when it comes to the primary things that children especially, and even teenagers, should

know?

I'll let Kelly do the live

roll of

what she does in the material.

Sunday when they're sitting at church, with, you know, hearing him in the pulpit.

I'm proud to be humble.

I, of course, love the catechism.

You know, that, to

me, that they need to know.

And so, you know, I think it's every other day

they're writing, you know, a few of the catechism questions, and I just have them go through it.

And they're going to, when they finish, they're going to start over, and they're going to do it again.

They're just going to keep just in their handwriting, but it

also helps just feel that in their mind.

And that's probably the biggest thing.

Of course, you know, when they come to me and they're telling me, Mom, I was playing this game and this so -and -so game, and

this kid started saying this.

You know, I've got two younger boys, the 11 and 12 -year -old.

The 11 -year -old is a good communicator and naturally a good

debater.

And so I have to just try to keep him from just trying to crush people.

I'm trying to teach him, hey, you gotta just, you can chill out, you gotta have mercy.

And he comes at you like this.

So, you know, I just say, hey, babe, you've got to have mercy on these kids because they don't know,

and they're maybe not growing up in the same situation, and they're not as blessed as you to be able to just hear this.

I'm like, oh my God, that's not, it's not the reason.

So anyway, so they'll come to me.

They'll come to me, you know, when they're playing or whatever, and

just, I just try to give them, you know, the right thinking on something like in that situation.

And just, that's kind of where my part of things

at home

is just behavior, and maybe

we need to be really focused.

Then it's not because they're afraid to be disciplined, it's because they are truly being convicted by the way.

And then Pete'll come in, he's an atheist, and you know,

which is awesome.

In fact, we're gonna go to our final break right now.

It's gonna be much briefer than the last one.

So you could pick up where you left off when we return, if anybody wants to join us.

And we do have several people waiting to have their questions asked.

So please be patient, and we'll get to as many of you as possible in the brief time that we have left.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com if you'd like to join them and get in line.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we will be right back, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back where I already know that I've got to have Pete and Kelly Orta back on the program again soon

because we're rapidly running out of time and it seems like we've only been on for five minutes.

But we do have a listener before you go into anything you'd like to say, Pete, about

the apologetics with your own children.

We do have a listener, CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who asks,

What do you say to a child who asks you if he is going to heaven?

Obviously, there are Christians who have very different answers to that question from their own children.

In fact, Baptists and Presbyterians often answer those questions differently and even Baptists and

Presbyterians disagree with their own members in their own denomination.

So how would you approach this situation with your own children?

Well, that's a good question.

You want to do that,

you know, you want to soften and you kind of want to almost

and

then

tell it, you

know, I treat

them by faith and,

you know, so I'll ask

questions.

No, I wouldn't just, I'm against the

trust thing, you know, asking Jesus,

not keeping the old one.

And we all know that

it is important if you're

a kid

asking you and you're kind of getting into your kid's heart.

Is it just curiosity?

I want to be in heaven with you.

Well, that's a means to their grace, wanting to be, you know, in the kind of bar and

want to be in heaven,

want to be with us.

And I think that's a means to their child's grace.

I know that the Lord might use in our life and

even tragedy or pain

preaching that gospel and us being

involved in

it.

Am I going to them about it?

And once I get their heart and I can kind of see where their heart is, like, you know what?

Let's pray.

Let's pray.

That's like, that's like your faith.

And Kelly, you have about 30 seconds and then we have to schedule you for another interview.

OK.

Kelly?

Is Kelly there?

Oh, I guess she might.

I'm sorry. I'm here. I'm here.

You have about 30 seconds to wrap up and say anything you'd like, because we are rapidly running out of time.

OK, so Zayden and I had that conversation.

The other day.

He just was talking about that he was kind of afraid that he, what if I'm not?

And I told him, you know,

you're you're holding to,

you know, just are you are there sorrow for your sin?

Do you feel convicted when you're doing things that you know that the that would hurt the Lord and that would not please him?

And, you know, and he said, yes, I do.

And so that helped even just asking that question just to help

is desiring, you know, to to be with the Lord and to be with us for eternity.

So,.

Well, yeah,.

Well, we we are out of time.

Yeah, we're out of time now, but I definitely want you to hold on the line so I could reschedule you for another interview.

But I want to thank you both.

Do you have any contact information that you care to give?

And you want to remind folks how to listen to your podcast.

Great.

Well, thank you so both.

If you could please stay on the line so I could say a proper goodbye to you and also schedule you for another interview.

I want to thank everybody who listened, everybody who's waiting for their questions to be asked and answered.

You can have those questions brought up next time when we have Pete and Kelly return.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you

are a sinner.