Mormonism and the LGBTQ Movement, China’s Totalitarianism, Polight’s Confusion, Open Phones

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:40

What happened? No intro. Well, that's nice Nothing like you know, just throwing it throwing it out there

00:49

You know So did we forget to do something or There's this device on the computer that It sometimes likes me and sometimes it doesn't and it's what plays the music and today it doesn't like me

01:11

That's that that's the way it is, I don't know I don't think

01:16

Rush Limbaugh put up with this personally I think they'd be looking for a new producer or something

01:23

Because I don't think it's a matter of being liked by electronic pieces of Equipment, but hey, welcome to the dividing line.

01:33

I Realized that you know for some folks. It's gonna be a little hard to get into it without the music

01:40

But there there you go Welcome to the program that threw me off completely now.

01:48

I don't know what in the world. I'm supposed to be talking about but Hey, but it gets it gets things going it gets things going

01:58

I would imagine hopefully most of you have been noting. Well, by the way before I jump into that Just Reposted or however, it is you a do a

02:12

Facebook thing I just shared it on our on my timeline about the

02:19

I guess I didn't know we're doing it this way, but the dialogue with Kwaku L Of the three

02:28

Mormons will be on Apologia TV radio Whatever it is

02:34

Live tomorrow morning starting at 1130, which means I really need to be there on time and so I Last time

02:45

I went over there. My my GPS was sending me to all the wrong places. It was a little bit weird anyway

02:53

So that will be 1130 Phoenix time which

02:58

I guess would be what? 230 Eastern Time something along those lines

03:05

So that will be will be live I thought we were just recording and then it would be, you know put together and and go from there but from what

03:13

I'm seeing it will be It will be live. So Keep that in mind tomorrow for those of you who have a special interest in Mormonism and especially sort of the the new

03:27

Mormonism I I saw a video posted just yesterday or day before yesterday on three

03:37

Mormons with one of the Ostler guys Who had who?

03:44

If you look him up now on on Google almost everything is LGBTQ ally

03:51

He's one of the big guys pushing Homosexuality acceptance of homosexuality within Mormonism and You know for me

04:01

I On One hand I look at Mormonism and I go you cannot have a more patriarchal religion in its historical

04:14

Manifestation, I mean when the woman does not hold the priesthood When the woman is resurrected by the power of her husband's priesthood

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When you have polygamy Um, that's about as Man -centered patriarchal kind of a setup as you can have and obviously what's even more amazing is

04:41

In Mormonism the power of God is the power of the priesthood and the power of procreation so if one of the very defining powers of deity is

04:54

Is procreation then the idea of male and female is You can't the idea of male and female you could argue is more foundational

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Than the idea of God in Christianity Because you can't you can't have procreation without a man and a woman

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The whole concept of celestial marriage. I mean is Mormonism could Mormonism someday

05:23

Have same -sex temple marriages. Well, what would stop that?

05:30

Well What what would stop that? would be a commitment to believing as The founders believed

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Joseph Smith Brigham Young no one can possibly argue That any

05:50

LDS leader up to up up through Brigham Young up through Bruce R. McConkie Up through Bruce R.

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McConkie. I mean we're talking we're talking somebody I passed a track to many years ago

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Nobody could make an argument that any of those leaders David O. McKay Spencer W. Kemp You name them go all the way back

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James Talmadge, you know go back to the preceding century That any of them would have for a moment

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Contemplated the concept of same -sex ceilings same -sex marriages

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Because there just isn't any room for this within the context of Mormon theology,

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I mean at least historic Orthodox Mormon theology and that's that's the whole point

06:48

But so if people were really, you know committed to Believing Exactly What the earliest individuals believed then?

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Okay, but the but the problem is Given the concept of latter -day revelation and given the fact that Mormonism has already begun to embrace the ramifications of That in the sense of its own evolution.

07:27

I can't see it. There actually is a meaningful foundation for Mormonism to resist the

07:39

Survival instinct Survival instinct in the sense of we need to have people coming in we need to grow we need to You know, it's not like there is a once -for -all delivered the

07:52

Saints faith Mormonism at its heart says there isn't a once -for -all delivered the Saints faith It's still being delivered and what's delivered today might look a whole lot different than it looked last time

08:02

You know, I I go back to the very first thing That I said at the end of my first Discussion with The two missionaries in 1982

08:20

Someday gentlemen elders read and race you are going to need to know the God who does not change and When that time comes,

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I hope that you'll contact me or more likely that you'll know of other Christians in your life that you would be able to To communicate with and so When when you think about it that there is no

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It it's like a jellyfish there is no internal skeleton As far as a meaningful unchanging worldview that can keep

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Mormonism from morphing into whatever and Is that what we're seeing?

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I mean I Would just have to imagine that there are a lot of Mormons around Manti That would just go no way ain't going there

09:23

Is that what will lead to the split or many splits and splinterings?

09:28

I don't know but the the willingness of the

09:36

Mormon leadership to play footsie with the LGBTQ movement when it is fundamentally contradictory to any meaningful explication of LDS theology

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Temple ceremonies the whole concept of who God is as a I mean in Mormonism.

09:55

God is a gendered being Transgender what what I don't know.

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Anyways, this just appeared on the three Mormons thing I guess yesterday,

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I guess the date was 28. So maybe the day before yesterday And I was just I Was just left going you've got to be kidding me

10:17

Why do you waving at me in there at that blood is on the track does nothing This is exactly what I thought of when

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I watched it because I think this is what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would do with Those three guys

10:28

Oh blood atonement. Yes Well, there's there is absolutely no question And don't blame well three guys that include included

10:37

Osler And Man I listening to Osler sitting there, you know, he's about my age and You know

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It's the you know, I've lived my whole life without knowing this View of liberalism and now

11:00

I'm so excited to have become a liberal and been You know freed from the chains of my bigotry of my youth and all the rest this kind of stuff

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That's not what you're saying. But that's that that's the mindset that you were you were getting We've all seen people doing that and of course

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I sit back and go so You got all the way into your mid -50s not having any idea of the foundations upon which your your beliefs were built

11:24

You hadn't thought these things through beforehand Okay, I was just I was

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I was pretty I was pretty surprised I'm not sure that's gonna come up. It might because Honestly The primary area of discussion has to be who

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God is and This is what illustrates. How could Mormonism go from?

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Brigham Young's 48 wives And His views on the priesthood in the blacks to what you see today

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If he was the primary channel through which priesthood authority comes to everybody today Well, this is what illustrates the need to have an objective revelation that does not change over time and I I don't have it in here with me, but there's a

12:18

I'm not sure how popular a book it is anymore But back when I was studying

12:24

Mormonism almost every missionary They used to have these little Missionary packs that you would when when somebody was called to go on a mission when these young guys 18 years old are preparing to Go on their mission

12:33

You could go the LDS bookstore and you could buy a case you know it'd be in a little slipcase and stuff and and it would have like articles of faith by James Talmadge and one of the books that it had was called a marvelous work and a wonder by LeGrand Richards and Richards, I remember

12:52

When I first bought the book That dear Mary The lady at the at the

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LDS book and supply Explained to me that elder Richards had published this book in such a way

13:07

That it would always have to be able to be made available to anybody who wanted a copy It wasn't supposed to be charged for unless you wanted to pay for it type of a thing and you know

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Okay, fine. Wonderful so is widely read and Influential and of course, he was a general authority.

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It was impossible and Over and over and over again in a marvelous work and a wonder

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What did he say? He said Joseph Smith did not learn this from the Bible We did not get this from preceding scripture.

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It was just a constant theme constant theme constant theme. We got to understand that's

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That's going to impact Your Religion in the long run and when your religion runs out of Charismatic leadership and Mormonism has

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By a long shot. I mean I'd say about the last really I mean the last

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Authoritative Guy that sort of sound like an apostle Was Bruce R.

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McConkie He's willing to say this is right, this is wrong, we're right you're wrong You know and and once Mormonism fell into the

14:28

Gordon Hinkley public relations Let's make everybody love us stuff

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You know, they're becoming as someone said to me spineless liberal Episcopalians and I'm sorry, but the

14:45

Episcopalians are not doing well You may have noticed that most those churches are all boarded up or become nightclubs and there there is a reason for that so Is that where Mormonism is headed?

14:57

I don't know. I don't know but it was um, it was fascinating to see you might want to look it up three

15:03

Mormons on YouTube and and see the last one that they did and So so there you go.

15:10

Anyways, I wasn't gonna go there But I spent 15 minutes on anyways, isn't that interesting what

15:16

I was going to mention was the continued, you know, we we

15:23

Invest a lot of our time here in the United States on Issues that are primarily focused upon us upon Americans We have been rightly criticized for having a non global view

15:39

And there's no question about that and I think we've gotten a little bit better But I basically had to be kicked out into the globe

15:48

To really start to see and and to realize and put a face on Global Christianity And the fact that I have brothers and sisters all around the world the thing that has always

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Been so very Encouraging to me is to recognize

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That what holds us together what unifies us is our common faith.

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It's not how we dress or how we Sing or any of these things it is it is the common faith that is ours no matter where we are in in the world and so we have for a very very long time been praying for the

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Saints in China and Though the Chinese government has done what it could to try and Co -opt

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Christian evangelicals to their side. They they've pretty much failed to do so and If you listen to the briefing you remember,

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I don't know six months ago a year ago, I forget when it was You had the

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Chinese Communist government Talking about Establishing basically the religion of their their current premier or whatever they call him party chairman and Recognizing that what this meant was there is going to be a coming crackdown on Religion as a whole in China, and I know it's a whole lot easier for us since So we're praying for to focus primarily upon Christians, but it should be recognized

17:36

That China is functioning as an equal opportunity persecutor It is not just Christian buildings that have been dynamited and crosses taken down and and now

17:50

The the House churches that had been somewhat just sort of overlooked they're going after them

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They're forcing Christians If you want your children to be able to go to school, you're gonna have to sign this document

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That says that you renounce all all claims to Christian faith This kind of stuff they're doing the same things to Muslims they this is a and it makes sense because both

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Islam and Christianity would involve a Acknowledgement of an authority above the state and Communist totalitarianism

18:30

Can't allow that now in Western totalitarianism You still you you have in the mind of Western totalitarians

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The coalescence of state and science when it comes to epistemology and authority

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So, you know the state is always the state gets to define what science actually says so Let's not worry about intelligent design and all that evidence and and things like that We you know, the state says this is how you interpret that so that is the orthodox way of doing so if you interpret it differently you are a cultural heritage

19:09

Well in in China then they are going after the

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The Muslims There was a I did not hear what happened on this

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But I saw a picture I do follow some some Muslims on Facebook and things like that and I saw a picture of a very large mosque

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That had just been completed. I mean you can tell it's quite new and quite extensive and There are all these people standing in a circle around it

19:46

Protecting it from the authorities who have been ordered to dynamite it because It was built without the proper paperwork.

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Well, we all know how that works You know that they had all the paperwork that the local people demanded of them

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But when you are a totalitarian government, you just come up with new paperwork requirements

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After it's all over say you didn't do it. So we get to blow it up I mean we know what's going on here

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It's I don't know if it's still standing. I would assume that I would have heard had it been dynamited

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But the the point is the Chinese communists totalitarians can not

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You know, there is nothing there's nothing in state religion in Making the religion of the people the state

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There's nothing in that that can actually really attract people I mean you can be attracted to it because you've decided to give in to it and so therefore you

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You might get something out of it. You might get more money or position or power over other people, but in the sense of actually having inherent worth and value

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Something you'd actually be willing to give your life for States are shallow substitutes for a faith in God and So there are numerous

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Articles showing up if you're just keeping an eye open for them Talking about what's going on in the persecution of Christian churches persecution of Muslims and others in China and There are supposed to be a 60 million

21:39

Protestant Chinese Christians, it's really hard to say obviously there is a compromised official church in in China, but it's it's very obvious what

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China is really all all about and So we definitely need to be praying for our brothers and sisters there

22:03

You know, I I had a lot of just wide -eyed naive people on Twitter I I made a statement, you know,

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I'm looking at The People who are winning in the primaries in the

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United States and Everyone is commenting on the reality that one of the two political parties

22:28

Is taking a very Hard left did not liberal leftist swing

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Toward socialism There are open socialists, you know, you had

22:44

Bernie Sanders But hey, come on uncle Bernie with the uncle Bernie who's never met a comb.

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He liked I mean, come on how he How can how can Bernie be scary because he just looks like a muppet, you know

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I mean, you can't you can't how can you be scared of a muppet, you know? I mean, honestly if you put

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Bernie up in the balcony with the other two guys You wouldn't be able to tell which one was which they'd all looked and sound the same

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So, you know, you just don't you don't get all Who evil evil about about the

23:20

Muppets But the fact is that Historically socialism is a vicious enemy of the

23:31

Christian faith and The kind of socialism that produced the

23:38

Stasi prison in East Germany, you know, I've mentioned it many times because I've walked through it The vast majority of people just have no idea and These naive people on Twitter and Facebook Oh, we just live in the best country in the world that does never happen here

23:58

And you're just like you have no earthy idea how fast That kind of Repressive totalitarian

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Murderous regime can take over in places where Liberty once once existed

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There's just a lot of really naive people very very naive people in In this world you say well, you're sure a downer.

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I said look God will always have his people but there have been times when

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God's people have been under severe persecution and That time may come again and as I listen

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To the public discourse and see how people are identifying Acting in such a way that that is very plain they wish to end all

25:00

Meaningful Disputation debate anything in the public sphere

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Anything that does not agree with their narrow socialist viewpoint must be Finished just shut it up You can't say it's all hate.

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We are the only we are the only people who are not hateful and we hate you Um when

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I listen to that I scope I'm not sure where this is going, but I can

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I can I know where it went in the past and Since we don't teach history anymore.

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We teach what is taught for history in public schools anymore. It's not history It's mine.

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It's mine. It's brainwashing It's not actual history The next two generations

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Filled with people haven't No idea what the Stasi prison was of no idea

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What what this nation has fought in the past and and what the root and source of our liberties have been

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You cannot expect a people like that to maintain their liberty. You just can't you can't

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So anyway, oh We're being called Statler and Waldorf in channel, you know that I guess those were the two

26:15

Muppets up in the Up in the balcony, so I guess that's you and me So What?

26:30

Yes. Yes. Well, I I was thinking about that. I was thinking about doing that but well, we'll not do that for the moment

26:39

Okay Let me I hadn't planned on doing this

26:48

Most the time I'm sent this kind of stuff I don't do it but this morning on Twitter Someone sent me a link to brother polite

27:08

I Have no earthly idea who brother polite is. I'm sorry But I'm having to wonder a little bit if he has something to do with black

27:22

Hebrew Israelites or whatever Because he he makes some strange comments here and the whole conversation going back and forth is about Jesus being a white man and Jesus couldn't have been a white man, and I don't know any semi trained

27:47

Evangelical anywhere That thinks Jesus was a white man But same time

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Jesus wasn't black man. It's gone I It may have I put it in the charger because I didn't know you had taken it out

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So I just figured he'd been left there is dead. So So The some of the stuff that says here is a little bit on the weird side, but what

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I wanted you to catch was the Technical Okay, so I'm I just this is sort of weird my watch

28:25

Just vibrated and I'm wearing a watch big enough today to read the messages.

28:32

And so my son's telling me this man is a black Hebrew Israelite Okay There you go

28:42

You know, I I remember I've told the story before but I remember the Christmas that we gave my dad his first else

28:51

LED not the red ones, but I think it was I think it was LCD. No, no, no, they were blue Yeah, okay, but they were it was blue and they glowed in the dark

29:04

Alarm clock thing back in the Late 70s somewhere around there and just how

29:15

Amazed he was and and you know, and we were so like, oh technology and Now I'm sitting here through something that didn't exist back then called the web talking to people all around the world and my son can just Use whatsapp and it shows up on my watch

29:38

This is you know, you know, I I'm old enough to remember Dick Tracy with the

29:43

With the television watch and how that was just completely Sci -fi man, that was just like no stinking way

29:52

No, I will say whatever I want to say Josh Now he thinks he can he can correct what

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I'm what I'm what I'm saying via the watch to no don't think so Because they ain't the second part, but they are the first part.

30:06

So there you go. Anyway so somebody sends this to me and It's it's incredibly bad argumentation, but most of the stuff you get from these folks is incredibly bad argumentation

30:20

But it's the Illustration of What we saw remember how long ago did

30:28

I do that thing with elder a car? I mean that was like two and a half years ago and about two and a half years ago and one of the things that got repeated over and over again was

30:39

You know the guy is going well that's but that's Strong's number blah blah blah blah blah and I'm like sir,

30:45

I Don't care about the Strong's number I actually teach Hebrew and the word is this that it means this and that became sort of viral

30:54

They just it just it just went went all over the place and the thug life thing and all that I don't even get half of that stuff.

30:59

Anyway Well, that's sort of what you got here is you've got the well you just look up that Strong's number and it and it's like No and So let's let's take a listen here to to what is said and then we're gonna go back over it and go

31:15

Not not not quite. So Here we here we go You feel me? But if I go to Matthew chapter 1 verse 23 and I see the word virgin there and they talking about Emmanuel and Jesus being born and then

31:27

I see the word virgin there and then I go into a Greek Concordance and I look up the word virgin and then I see in the

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Greek that the word that they're using for virgin This means an unmarried woman then the virgin

31:39

Marry isn't necessarily it changes the represents a Conception. Yeah, it means a woman who's not married who had this child

31:48

But you know, I will get cursed at and I'll be disrespected but I will also say it's not me in any one of the

31:55

Bibles you choose to read if you get one that has a Corresponding concordance you can look up the concordance number and you can see what the words

32:05

Actually translate to be and thus no matter what if they say not in my

32:10

Bible, that's okay But in everyone's concordance, it's gonna have the same definitions so Yeah okay a

32:20

Couple things. I don't know if you caught it because whoever the interviewer was was talking some Vlad or something Um But did you catch you know, we're gonna look at the

32:30

Parthenos Alma Bethula. Well, we'll we'll take all that apart in a moment But did you catch a really common?

32:41

Misunderstanding on the part of this fellow He talked about the immaculate conception

32:48

He talked about it's not the immaculate conception What do you think the immaculate conception is? Now this is a common mistake,

32:55

I mean lots of Roman Catholics make the same mistake. It's just the virgin birth of Jesus has

33:03

Nothing to do with the immaculate conception. Immaculate conception is about Mary's conception in Roman Catholic theology, it is a

33:13

Concept that developed much later in church history. It was defined as a dogma Only a few hundred years ago

33:23

And it is the idea that Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin by the preemptive application of the merits of Christ to her

33:36

That's what the immaculate conception is about has nothing to do with Parthenos Alma anything

33:46

Total disconnection there. So there's a there's a basic Fundamental error and so now now

33:52

I'm being told on on Twitter that that he's not Hebrew Israelites, so there you go

33:58

Twitter fight. Yeah. Okay. Now you got everybody all of set So That is a is an error, but let's let's consider because this this comes up and we've covered it, especially

34:17

Around the holidays because It's starting

34:23

Sometime late October in the November and certainly in December. We all know that at that time a year and then

34:31

February March April around time the resurrection The media just drags out

34:40

Stuff that they put into a folder a long long time ago And just recycle it about all the errors of Christianity and everything else and so you hear all about How Isaiah 714 doesn't say virgin and blah blah blah, but where this guy is confused

34:57

He's confused on a more basic level the argument that is normally used

35:07

Is that when you go back into Isaiah 714 in the

35:13

Hebrew? text The the term that is used is ha

35:22

Alma Ha Alma he may ha Alma hara while your your your let day date

35:38

Ben a son and the Virgin or the young child the young woman will give birth

35:51

Yellid is the is the root there To a son and you will call his name

35:57

Emmanuel with us is God and Historically this had a fulfillment in the past that was its minor fulfillment as a greater fulfillment when you follow

36:08

Emmanuel all the way from Here through chapter 11, you'll see that it's a repetitive phrase and it's associated with Messianic prophecies

36:17

And we don't have time to go back through that right now. I've presented that a number of times on on the program

36:22

You can look it up. Anyway, the point is Alma in Hebrew Not in Greek.

36:29

He's talking about a Greek concordance First of all, it's not a concordance. It's a lexicon

36:35

What you need is a lexicon where you actually look up roots meanings You you've got halo and you've got you know, you got older ones.

36:46

You got BDB. You've got Kohler Baumgartner, there's all sorts of Hebrew Aramaic lexicons and then when you talk about a

36:55

Greek lexicon, you're not talking about a concordance with numbers No serious scholarly

37:03

Lexicon has numbers So you can just sort of do the number thing It's sort of it sort of assumes that if you're gonna be doing this kind of stuff

37:10

You might want to know the language might be able to read it or something like that at least to a certain level and so If you're looking at Greek lexicons, you know the standard

37:24

Bauer Donker art and Gingrich third edition But there there are numerous others that are available and so many of them now are available

37:35

Relatively Easily not overly inexpensive, but relatively easily obtainable in the various Bible programs which are now available for Your phone and your iPad and everything else.

37:50

I use accordance. They're available in Lagos. There used to be Bible works It's gone out of business now You've got olive tree and You can get these resources in in all of these programs and look these things up for yourself

38:04

And and there you go. Anyway so these are lexicons that you're going to be utilizing and The the area of confusion other than the language that the gentleman has is

38:21

That there is no question About the meaning of the Greek. He mentioned the

38:26

Greek. He didn't mention Hebrew. He mentioned Matthew 123 and In Matthew 123, it's a

38:32

Parthenos now Parthenos. You have the Parthenon in Greece There is no question about its meaning there's none a

38:44

Parthenon the whole point of these temples were the Vestal Virgins that were there and The the the the term has very specific meaning of a virgin

38:57

What he has heard? and has strangely transmuted into something else is that Alma in the

39:07

Hebrew can simply mean a young woman of marriable age and it could

39:17

But Matthew is not quoting the Hebrew he's quoting the Greek Septuagint and the Greek Septuagint uses a

39:23

Parthenon so before Jesus is born 200 years before Jesus is born the

39:31

Jewish translators of Isaiah Translated Alma as Hey Parthenos, and that's what

39:42

Matthew quotes in Matthew 123 So if you look up Parthenos, it's gonna say virgin if you look up Alma It's gonna say young woman of marriageable age or a virgin it can refer to a virgin

39:56

There is a specific term Bethula for a virgin but in Isaiah 7

40:05

The emphasis is upon time frame in the initial fulfillment of the prophecy

40:11

Because what's what's it about if you remember it's about the kings that have come against Israel But by the time that this woman gives birth those two kings will have gone away and so that it's a time frame issue when it becomes

40:27

Cited in the New Testament. It's no longer the time frame issue. The emphasis is upon the nature of the sign itself connected to Immanuel and that's when you then look at Immanuel as it's used in Isaiah 7 and you follow all of the prophetic material from Isaiah 6 through Isaiah 11 and in each chapter you end up with messianic texts

40:54

That are cited in the New Testament. So the New Testament writers see this

41:01

Concentrated area of messianic prophecy and they're drawing from it in bits and pieces in the

41:09

New Testament and so all the stuff about immaculate conception all the stuff about You know, that's just completely out of out of out of relevance that has nothing to do with what we're talking about The Greek was in error it was talking about a dispute over the semantic domain of Alma in the

41:34

Hebrew and even then the question then becomes well, you know,

41:41

I don't know what his his thing is maybe he doesn't Believe Matthew's inspired or I don't know.

41:49

I have no earthly idea if he does then Matthew is

41:54

Utilizing the Greek septuagint and hence the meaning must be determined in that way.

42:00

So There you there you go That kind of The problem is that kind of a statement carries a lot of weight with people for some reason and the vast majority of people are not prepared to explain where the error is to be found and It's it's a very clear error and one that we should be

42:25

Should be aware of So, how about we we go ahead if you want to and open the phones?

42:32

we'll see if we can squeeze a a Few people in on on the phone line today.

42:40

Just grab a few phone calls if there would be some people who'd like to Comment on these things or on other things at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one that is a toll -free number

43:00

So Parthenos has a small semantic domain. Oh, yeah, it's pretty technical pretty technical term

43:06

It has a much narrower semantic domain than Alma does that's for certain eight seven seven seven five three three

43:15

Three four one is the phone number if you would like to call into the program We'll only take a you know, we've only got about 17 minutes left on the program

43:25

So we won't be able to take too many calls The lines are open for you right now if you would like to Call in well one line is open three are already filled eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is

43:42

Is the phone number there and now the last one is is taken so we have one ready to go and At least

43:53

I think we're ready to go there we go All right, let's talk with Alex.

43:59

Hi Alex Hey, dr. White. Thanks for having me. Yes, ma 'am. Yes. Well, hey, we we you know,

44:05

I said to rich for the program So I hope we get Alex on the day yeah, yeah, so a question for you usually when we

44:15

Discuss the topic of the biohazards preservation. We talked about the manuscript evidence would have you just wondering if you would be able to provide a

44:27

Theological basis for the Bible's preservation. In other words, but you believe that the

44:32

Bible says Itself that it will be preserved

44:39

And if so, how would you go about doing that? Yeah, I address that in in the book scripture alone in the chapter on on the

44:47

Canon I make the argument that the Inspiration of scripture

44:57

Is related to the preservation of scripture in that God says that he has a purpose

45:03

In inspiring scripture and therefore a purpose in making sure that the church knows what its scripture is

45:10

And how to access that and so if we on the one hand will say that God will exercise tremendous divine power to Work the miracle of bringing a scripture and that is

45:26

Men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. We don't know all the mechanics of that but it is a

45:34

It is the the statement of scripture itself, then it would make sense In light of the fact the scriptures say these things were written for our benefit

45:46

When the when the New Testament apostles will quote from Old Testament Paul, for example in Romans 15

45:52

We'll say, you know, these things were written for for our benefit so that we might Understand this out of the other thing

45:59

We learn from that that scripture has a a purpose And that God intends us to be able to possess it in the same way.

46:08

Jesus held men accountable for the scriptures and so The only way to understand the apostolic witness and Jesus his own teaching is that there has been a preservation

46:21

Of those texts. I don't go to the the passages a lot of a lot of people go to for example I don't think

46:26

Psalm 12 has anything to do with this to be perfectly honest with you the Isaiah passage

46:33

About my words is primarily about about prophetic utterance as a whole Not necessarily just the the written scriptures

46:42

It is actually more of a presupposition of the arguments of the New Testament writers that there has been that Preservation and then that presupposition from the

46:51

Old Testament I think is is just as valid for anything that is they honest us in the new and so it's related to issues of Canon and it's certainly related to the fact that If you don't think

47:05

God has a divine decree that he is working out in this world I I think that probably frequently ends up leading to some some problems

47:15

I think that our minion ism as a whole because of its rejection of a divine decree has shown itself more readily willing to abandon the high view of Scripture if you have a divine decree then the

47:31

Preservation of Scripture is is sort of axiomatic at that point Because God is working out all things in accordance with the will and obviously one of those things would be

47:41

Having the scripture exists in such a way at the church can access it and hence have the guidance that the

47:47

God intended us to have so that we could have those examples and so on and so forth and and Jesus could teach from the scriptures during his ministry and all that kind of stuff.

47:55

So but like I said Scripture alone My book on that subject

48:01

Will go into a little bit more detail on that looks at some of the texts that announce those purposes and and and things like that Okay Great.

48:10

Thank you so much. I just wanted to make one last comment here You know involved in my my church and I were involved in a lot of Outreach to to Muslims here in our community.

48:25

Yes, Detroit. Yes, really really respect a Lot of the work you do you have had?

48:32

Some opportunities that we could only dream of yeah Being able to preach the gospel openly in a in a mosque.

48:39

It is just not something that happens No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Thank you again for your work.

48:45

All right. Thank you Alex All right Take care of that little one there

48:52

Who was very nice and quiet? Let's talk to no serious. It was you could you could tell uh,

48:58

Thomas. Hello Thomas Hi, hi, dr. White doing good. I had a question on a teaching about final salvation

49:09

It's primarily from John Piper and He's quoted saying we're not

49:16

We don't get into heaven by faith alone, but we are justified by faith alone. Are you familiar with that?

49:21

I am What are your thoughts? What dr.

49:27

Piper is Focused upon ever since his book future grace has been a

49:36

Yeah, I we need to Rich we need to We're probably gonna be able to get these

49:44

The next those three so we need to be careful on how many we pick up there don't want to hang up on folks um, anyway, um

49:51

There has been in his writings and emphasis upon The Necessity of sanctification

50:04

The necessity of holiness not as a

50:10

Addition to the righteousness of Christ, but as an announced necessary Result of the work of the

50:18

Spirit of God within someone which has led him to say that at the final judgment

50:26

There will be a and this comes it's actually goes all the way back to his initial doctoral dissertation the justification of God There will be

50:37

That that that phrase that God will be justified will be shown to have been righteous and all that he has done

50:45

Because he has sanctified a people who have then done these good works Then there is an element

50:55

Vindication of his actions in their final salvation that he has worked out in them an element of Holiness that justifies his actions now.

51:11

I find that highly problematic and I've never met.

51:17

Dr. Piper. I've never talked to dr. Piper about this. We only communicated I think twice

51:23

By email or something like that But I know that many others

51:30

Have shared their concerns with dr. Piper over this issue And dr.

51:37

Piper has a way of saying no. No, I'm I agree with you on that. We just need to emphasize this and The the problem is in this situation,

51:46

I think there needs to be great clarity as to what the foundational basis of My acceptance with God is not just initially but at the great white throne judgment and There is everything right in recognizing that we are being conformed the image of Christ and that he is working in us in such a way that he is

52:15

Bring about our sanctification All these things are true, but the ground of my acceptance before God is

52:25

Always the same and I don't think that can change I don't think it changes from one's initial acceptance before God and then the final judgment

52:34

Will be based upon not by faith alone, but by faith Working together in love or things like that.

52:41

I I think that that's a a dangerous Direction to go. I understand what he's trying to say.

52:49

I think in his mind This is the only way to defend Lordship salvation and a final vindication of God's purposes

53:01

But I think it misses the point badly in the sense that it confuses the categories of Why I am accepted in the final analysis before God and Opens the door because you know, you're more

53:19

Augustinian Roman Catholic is going to say that Their final justification before God is

53:31

Certainly only by grace But it's by a grace that has produced works of love and that's how they open the door of the entire concept of the sacraments

53:41

Now John Piper would recoil against that sacramental system, but but the question is

53:49

Has he left the door open enough with this future grace concept that he's being inconsistent and so That's that's my understanding of what's going on there and So I would not

54:10

Agree with dr. Piper on that and would would say that there's a there's a category

54:17

Distinction that has become unclear in his thinking at that point. Okay Hello, I Guess we lost

54:29

Thomas. All right, hopefully heard there heard that or if you didn't hear that I'll be able to pick it up on the on the other side

54:37

Let's talk to James. Hi James Hey, dr. White, how you doing doing good?

54:43

First of all, let me say I've really enjoyed your program. I've been watching for a couple years now It's greatly helped me to grow in my faith

54:50

And I've recently joined the chat channel and I've received a warm. Welcome. Thank you for both those things.

54:55

Okay My question is something I've been pondering for a while now. I have started to get my feet wet in Apologetics, I've read some of Oliphant and I started to read some

55:07

Van Till I'm loving these all of it's a whole lot easier to understand and then tell but anyway

55:13

He very much is I've had to read Van Till in light of all that. I'm gonna translate it. I'm gonna grasp it

55:18

Yeah, um, well, that's just remember Van Till's original language was not English. So You can definitely see that I have his defense of the faith and it's a mind -stretcher.

55:29

Yeah Yeah, um, but my question is that when we are dealing with Unbelievers and we are trying to give an answer a consistent answer

55:39

When is it appropriate and this might be a broad question? When is it appropriate to say that something is beyond our understanding or to use the term?

55:48

It is a mystery because I've been following your church history session And I know you have said that many times

55:53

Lutheran Jews that term To describe the ubiquity of the body of Christ that does create a problem

55:59

And then I've also seen myself many times where when you ask a non -Calvinist, how does

56:04

God know the future? We can answer it because it's a decree and they just say well, it's a mystery

56:09

Right. When is it appropriate to use that term without it being a cop -out or being inconsistent?

56:15

That I don't think there are many times. First of all, I think it needs to be defined properly and biblically

56:21

The the mysteries are referred to are are normally Things that were hidden from the past Generations or under the

56:31

Old Covenant that now have been made known For example, the church is called a mystery the the unity of Jews and Gentiles and the body is called a mystery

56:38

And so these were things that now had been fully revealed So they were no longer unknown but had been

56:47

Unknown in previous times and then the unfolding of Revelation has given light and come to understand it

56:53

That's not normally how we're using the term mystery when people for example apply the term mystery to the

57:02

Relationship of the divine persons in the Trinity, for example what they're normally communicating there is that there is a

57:12

Limitation to Revelation on this subject and therefore

57:18

When as as Calvin would put it when God makes an end of speaking so must we and Therefore if you're asking questions about that, which

57:28

God has not given revelation Then that would be the appropriate place to utilize a term in terms such as as mystery

57:35

I don't almost ever use the term simply because of the fact that it is it's almost like I almost never use the term cult

57:43

Because it is liable to so many different definitions That if I do use it

57:50

I'm probably have to spend more time defining how I'm exactly using it out of fear of being misinterpreted

57:56

Then I'm saving by using the shorthand And so I try to avoid it and I try to avoid the term mystery for the same reason

58:06

Not because I believe we can answer every question but because It tends to communicate this idea of almost

58:17

Gnostic secret knowledge type stuff and I don't I don't want to communicate that to anyone

58:23

So I will generally be more open in saying There are you know,

58:29

God has made God has told us these positive divine truths

58:35

And that's as far as we can go with that and there is no reason to attempt to go any

58:40

Farther than that and if your question is based upon an assumption about knowledge

58:46

We don't have then I'm going to point out You don't really have the knowledge you're assuming to have rather than just simply appealing to quote -unquote mystery

58:55

So I know that dr. Oliphant uses the term mystery a little bit more often than I do But I think in most situations

59:03

It's just simply the recognition that the Christian faith is a divine faith it is depend upon revelation and revelation is not intended to be exhaustive and So there is great wisdom.

59:14

I've said many times over the years. There's great wisdom in following the example of Calvin over against the example of Jonathan Edwards at this point

59:25

Because I think in many ways When Edwards attempted to develop a pretty much exhaustive theodicy in dealing with the will of Adam he ended up getting into stuff that we have no revelation on and even his friends even his friendly biographers would tell us that The great mind got into trouble because you can even have a mind as great as as Edwards and Still end up tied in in theological pretzels

01:00:00

Which is basically what ended up happening on that particular subject and that's that's the conclusion of friendly reviewers let alone

01:00:07

Negative reviewers. So that's how I would that's how I would look at the at the term

01:00:13

And and how it's being used and why I don't really use it a whole lot because it it tends to communicate stuff

01:00:20

I'm not really attempting to communicate All right, that makes perfect sense that statement by Calvin has also influenced me in some arguments or not arguments the discussions

01:00:29

I've gotten into with my dad and other preachers on things like reform theology They push me and I just say listen, this is all

01:00:36

God's told us He's not told us anything else and that's as far as I can go. Yeah Yeah, and some people don't like that So they try to fill in gaps where they shouldn't be trying to fill in gaps and it's almost always a disaster

01:00:49

Yeah, such as a Benny Hinn claiming they're not members of the Trinity now now now see Benny Hinn's just weird that You know, we're let's stick with let's stick with Edwards.

01:00:59

So let's not go Benny Hinn. So Thank you so much for your ministry. Thanks a lot. God bless. Thank you.

01:01:04

Bye. Bye All right last call. Let's We're not going too far over but let's talk with Thomas down in Houston still still sticky and humid down there 24 hours a day seven days a week

01:01:18

Come on, you get you get a few cold fronts that sneak down there during the winter that actually dry out a little bit

01:01:24

So I well I was I was complaining to somebody the other day that last last

01:01:30

Christmas I walked out to my car to drive to a family gathering. It was like I feel like a frog

01:01:35

It's like 85 out here Wow. Yeah. Okay. Well, I understand though that someone's telling me that Houston is getting a

01:01:45

Taco time the taco time is opening a restaurant in in Houston. So let me recommend that to you

01:01:52

As soon as as soon as I get word on where that is. I remember that phone call Okay on the dividing line

01:01:58

Yeah But I hadn't heard of it until you mentioned it and I haven't heard any word of it here yet Okay, the area that I'm in is big on Portuguese tacos.

01:02:06

So on port Portuguese tacos Torchie to our torches.

01:02:12

Yeah Every time anyway, that's neither here nor there.

01:02:18

Let's let's get to it the question I had I was having a conversation with a fellow believer about divorce and We came across what your seminary professors might call attention on the topic

01:02:30

We were reviewing the text dealing with God's attitude and Jesus's attitude on divorce and came across Ezra 10 and I think

01:02:39

Nehemiah 13 Where in both prophets the people of Israel get together and they send away foreign wives

01:02:47

Ezra lists this is because it's against the law to marry foreign people and Nehemiah lists that and Solomon and the idolatry that came through Solomon through marrying foreign women which

01:02:57

I was curious how you would reconcile the differing attitudes between what

01:03:03

Jesus says Paul says Malachi and then the the marriage of Ruth to Boaz because Ruth was also a foreigner who married

01:03:11

Well, there isn't Boaz saying I wouldn't have any issues with aside the fact she's in the genealogy of Jesus You also have the the fact that she was very clearly a worshiper of God.

01:03:21

So I don't think proselytize proselyte Marriage to a true worshiper would be an issue.

01:03:27

But anyway, um, my understanding is that This particular conversation has been ongoing in a place online called the pub

01:03:38

The reformed pub and so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with your your question or not

01:03:46

And I'm not sure if you're driving a car washing dishes. I'm not sure what's going on there, but We've got we've got some sound coming from you there.

01:03:55

That is is odd What you're hearing is probably my air conditioning, oh, okay.

01:04:03

All right. Well, you've got to have the air conditioning. I Understand that reminds me of when we used to do the dividing line in the in the

01:04:11

Garage, and we had that In the background. Yes, it's at work. Anyway Look, I'm not

01:04:19

I when I heard about the conversation going on about polygamy and what what what you what you should do when a man a

01:04:31

Polygamous man becomes a Christian and all the rest is that when I when I heard that was going on in the pub

01:04:37

I was like, ah Fascinating conversation not one. I'm getting involved with because You know,

01:04:47

I you know who did you know who to ask that question of Ask ask that question of Votie Balcom because Votie Not only has written numerous books on marriage

01:05:00

But he lives in Africa and hence has probably run into it. In fact, I think

01:05:06

I Could be wrong about this, but my recollection is that when I was there just a matter of weeks ago at his house in Lusaka that he mentioned something about About that very kind of a situation

01:05:22

So I'm going to take the chicken route and say I don't know Talk to somebody who's actually done some reading and thinking about it and maybe ask ask

01:05:30

Votie next time you get a chance to to communicate with him I think he'd give you a whole lot more in -depth answer than I could because it's really just not a part of my

01:05:40

My bailiwick, so I'll just be honest about that The the question came up with regard to a

01:05:47

John Piper article on well, there's good old John causing problems again, so It was it was on the topic of a person gets divorced

01:05:57

Unjustifiably and then remarries. What does he do with the sit -in that situation was how it all came up? So yeah, we we get into a lot of tough situations.

01:06:05

There's no choice about it. But anyways, all right Thank you for your call, sir All righty.

01:06:12

God bless Okay, there you go Some good calls right there at the end of the program and as normal a wide variety of topics that have been covered

01:06:22

And that's why we do the program the way we do it and That's why even though we've had people that have said, you know, we'd love to have you come on our our network and stuff like that, we've always resisted that and Primary reason is we can do this program when we need to do it for as long as we want to do it and we can talk about what we need to talk about and I Just don't ever see the reason for Sacrificing that that freedom and it allows us to do what we need to do, so I appreciate all of you who take the time to listen and Have said you have benefited over the years of the of the ministry.

01:07:07

So Lord willing remember tomorrow live stream in the morning 1130 our time and then

01:07:17

Not here on apologia, yeah, look on Facebook I think it's be Facebook live and then we will see you next week.