Death Ethics

Like to welcome you all to like to welcome you all back to our study of Christian ethics and Tonight is if last week wasn't a doozy on the subject of life ethics. This week is certainly a doozy because we're going to discuss the subject of death Ethics, but before we get to that I have a few quick announcements to make Number one if you don't remember this Monday coming up.

I'm going to be speaking at a little mini conference on tough questions real answers and For believers doubters and skeptics, and I'm one of three pastors who's going to be on a panel answering questions.

And so if you're interested, please let me know. I can give you a card with the address. Also, don't forget your homework is due. You had the choice of doing one of the things that I gave you one of the ethical dilemmas or simply doing the.

The briefing you did not have to do both this past week. It was an optional choice, and you could have done both, but you didn't have to wasn't wasn't required. And the if you turned in your briefing homework last week.

It's in the box for you to take back, so don't forget that. Want to also mention that we are Already in plans for our next semester course or term. It's not really a full semester our next term course and our next term is going to be in Greek so Basic Greek is this is the textbook.

I've taught out of this book for years. It's called basic Greek in 30 minutes a day by James found as a very useful tool and even if you are intimidated. Or maybe feel like you don't think you would get anything out of it.

I can tell you that one of the richest studies that I've done in my life is Learning more about how the Bible was written and the language that the New Testament was written in so if you're interested Please let me know and I'll give you the link and you can go ahead and get the book and Even go ahead and get get it get a little ahead of the game.

We're going to start in January. The other thing I want to do before we get started tonight is I have a handout to give you. I Want to read it to you very quickly, and then I'll hand it out. Prefer preparation for week eight.

Remember this is an eight-week course and the space provided below. Please provide an ethical dilemma you would like us to discuss in class. This can be a variation on something already discussed or an introduction of a new topic not previously mentioned.

And our last session we will address as many of these subjects as time allows and examine the relevant scriptures. This sheet must be turned in by week seven. Because I need the time to make sure that I've put in the preparation of looking.

You know finding the scriptures and getting everything ready to at least have a cogent conversation. I don't want to be hitting something that night and Blindsided I need these at least back by week seven, but even earlier if you can't so part of your homework this week.

Think of an ethical dilemma. Maybe something you've dealt with maybe something someone's brought to you. Maybe something that you have you'd like for us to discuss as many as we can you remember last semester when we did?

The Bible verses and I said turn in the Bible verses and we only got to one. That was my bad. I Didn't mean for that to happen my real intent was to look at as many as we could and unfortunately We only got to one because I I just you know I didn't didn't manage my time very well, but I do promise to at least try better this time and.

So if you have a and here's the thing if it's a simple question it might not necessarily get a simple answer. But it might it might just be well. This is what I think the Bible says and other people can share and we move forward.

It might be a simple thing or it might not but I am curious to see what what ethical Dilemmas you all have considered or had to deal with and ones that you would want to share. So I'm gonna pass these this way, and I'll pass these this way.

Just please make sure that you do this because if no one does it and in our last class We'll just be sitting here. You already got one okay, okay great. So and like said if you do you can turn that in as part of your homework next week or the week after.

Just like I said week seven is the is the cutoff for for that for that sheet all right. So as I mentioned last week we dealt with life ethics we dealt with abortion Reproduction and we dealt very very surface level with the subject of genetics and the possibility of Genetic tampering and the ethics involved in that.

Suicide, Eternal Security, and the Question of Salvation

Tonight we are going to move to the subject of death ethics, and if you have your Syllabus you know that that in title or entails us discussing suicide Euthanasia and Capital punishment now. I want to preface this lesson.

This subject is probably one that hits very close to home for many people. I Don't know very many families that have not been touched by the the horror of suicide. So I want to encourage all of us if we engage in dialogue tonight no matter how strong our opinions may be to please be mindful of the Pain that certain people may have been through as we engage the topic.

I'm not saying don't say what you need to say, but I am encouraging you to speak with grace and Not with you know as my brother might call your off and says don't be a chainsaw to a blade of grass. Yeah.

Consider the topic and the weightiness of it. Agreed. All right. All right, so it's beginning with the subject of suicide a few weeks ago. The church world was stunned yet again to hear of another pastor Who committed suicide?

Unfortunately, this is an all too common occurrence. But what made this particular? suicide noteworthy is that the pastor who Committed suicide was identified as a mental health expert. He was one who had counseled People most assuredly counseled people who themselves had dealt with depression anxiety.

And the other things that might lead to the problem which would would end in suicide. And as I just said a moment ago most of us if not all of us have been touched by the reality of it. Our family was rocked by it not just a few years ago, and it was a tragic day.

I remember exactly where I was when I received the phone call that my cousin had taken his own life and I then had to go and tell my other cousin and all of us were very close and he we were in a bowling alley together, and he just fell apart and We had to go and then see my uncle who had found his son.

Having taken his own life. Likewise I've stood alongside many families. I Was thinking about this story today. I I did a funeral for a family, and I was called pastor Foskey. Can you meet with this family do the service absolutely and so I did the service not a month later I was called by the funeral home, and they said hey We need you to do a service this family requested you and that's very rare because normally I don't know the family and and I said oh, they requested me.

Why they said well you did their family service last month and It was a second suicide within four weeks in the same family. And what was what was the dad insult to injury? The man. I remembered the man being at the first funeral and he had Said to his wife how angry he was and how selfish he felt like the person who committed suicide was and not not a month later He ended his own life.

So as I said, it's a terrible thing to have to discuss, but in regard to ethics it certainly Falls under the category of one of the things that we need to discuss. The dictionary defines suicide as the act or instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally.

However, I prefer the ESV study Bible Translation the ESV study Bible and their ethics section gives a little simpler definition murder of self. Think that's simple. But it really does get to the heart of what we're talking about.

If we define suicide as murder of oneself it would seem to fall squarely into the category of something that is wrong or Unlawful because there is a clear law both in the Old Covenant and in the New Covenant that would add a prohibition against murder.

We know within the Ten Commandments. It says thou shalt not commit murder and Jesus reaffirmed this when he said you've heard it say don't commit murder. I tell you not even to hate your brother when you do you've committed murder in your heart.

So we have not only the external aspect of the law, but we have the internal attitude of the heart that reflects the law so One might think based on that. This is the open and shut Ethical question it's always wrong.

It's always against the law. Let's move on to the next subject, but like many other ethical issues There are questions which arise and I want us to consider two questions tonight in regard to the subject of suicide.

The first question is the question I always get every time I'm faced with a suicide no matter the situation. Is it possible that a person who commits suicide can go to heaven that is almost every time I've ever had to deal with suicide that question is asked.

The second one is a little more nuanced, but is very important. And the second question is is it ever justified? That a person would choose to end his own life, and that's a little more nuanced and when we get there You'll see why but the first question is can a person who commits suicide go to heaven.

Second question is is it ever justified to take one's own life, and so that's the two questions We're going to deal with and I'm going to try to be as honest and fair as I can and dealing with both. Looking at the first question can a person commit suicide and go to heaven well.

Before we answer that question. I do want to say that you're your theological presuppositions will inevitably affect. How you answer this question? You say well why well if you are a person who affirms?

What I call OSAS if you don't know what OSAS is you're not a Baptist. Because OSAS is once saved always safe. Right that's that's the Baptist motto. That's it's very clear that this is what has been taught and clearly taught that once you are saved you're always saved.

And and I and I'm not making fun of it by calling it OSAS. It just is the acronym that I've used over the years for this particular position. If you affirm what saved always saved also known as eternal security.

You believe that once a person is in grace they cannot fall from grace and as I said this is typically the Baptist position and Therefore that will affect your answer in regard to suicide because your question would then be Was he saved and if he was saved he could nothing he can do can cause him to lose it therefore even suicide Couldn't cause him to fall therefore Person can be be saved and commit suicide and go to heaven you understand what I'm saying.

I'm not trying to oversimplify it. I'm saying if that's your if that's your Presupposition theologically then that sort of answers the question for you the second One would be is if you if you affirm the the other side of that what we would call.

Maybe I don't really have a cute acronym for this one I would just say this would be you affirm that someone can fall from grace. So the first position would be once they've always said can't fall from grace.

You have the second position that you can fall from grace those would be many denominations. Primarily if you want to look I don't really call Roman Catholics a denomination. But if you want to start with Roman Catholicism, they would say absolutely you fall from grace, but but there are others.

You know Methodist believe you can fall from grace. Pentecostals particularly believe. Especially those who come because Pentecostalism charismatic a lot of that began in the Methodist movement. So a lot of the Armenian Methodism Methodism Methodism Sort of undergirds a lot of the Pentecostal theology and and so Wesleyan theology is as far as the theology of salvation sanctification all those things are very prevalent in the in the Pentecostal church, so so you'll see the idea.

Yes, you can absolutely fall from grace and if you believe that well Then you believe that suicide can cause you to lose your salvation even if you were saved up to the point that you took your own life that act of taking your own life could be the Thing that causes you to fall from grace and at that moment You're imperiled forever because of that act of suicide.

So you see so you see how the two Overarching presuppositions would affect how you answer the question, but I want to I want to offer a third perspective. And this is what I would call the the reformed Perspective this is the perspective that I would not only hold but as a church we affirm because we are a reformed church.

And that is called the perseverance of the Saints so So we call it pots yeah perseverance of the Saints everything's got a cute acronym except for the second one Perseverance of the Saints Teaches that once a person is saved He will persevere to the end of his life in faith because God is the one who gave him the faith and God is the one who keeps him in the faith and.

That's a set over simplification of the position, but that is the position therefore. The person who affirms number three would say yes a person can fall from belief. But the belief was never truly genuine.

We would say they were never really saved and and and so You say well, where does that come from well? Two verses in particular that I point to one is 1st John 2 19. It says speaking of false believers.

It says they went out from us, but they were not of us for if they had been of us They would have continued with us but they went out that it might become plain that they are not truly of us and Therefore that would be one of the verses that's used to say if they if they depart from the faith It's because they were not truly of the faith.

And again, that's 1st John 2 19 Matthew 7 21 to 23 this is where Jesus said not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. And at the end of that he says depart from me. I Never knew you he didn't say I knew you for a while and you Fell away, or I knew you up until the point that you sin, and then you sinned and it was too far or whatever.

He says I never knew you and thus there was never a relationship established at the new birth. Therefore The reformed person would say that it is possible for a person to profess faith and fall away but the profession is made void by the The apostasy or the abandoning of the faith.

And that's why a book a reformer a reformed person can affirm both essentially Once saved always saved with the caveat not everybody who thinks they're saved or says they're saved are truly saved. Right because there are people who say they're saved and they're not there people who believe they're saved and they're not in fact I believe one of the one of the subtle attacks of the devil is to make people who are genuinely say feel like they're not and People who are not safe feel like they are.

Because both of them become ineffective right if you if you're really saved and you don't think you are you're always doubting you living in this this constant state of turmoil and If you aren't saved and you think you are you're in a lot of trouble so I think I think that's one of the real tricks of the devil there, but This leads to the bigger question then would the reformed person believe that committing suicide is Is Testimony that the person was never saved.

Not all theologians answer that the same and I can't give you every theologians opinion but most of us. And I do count myself among them. Most of us would hold out. Hope that. A person who has confessed Christ and has committed suicide may have made That may be in heaven.

But again, we don't know and so when somebody asked me is this person in heaven. My first question is if they did they confess Christ and if they didn't then my answer is clear. Even if it's hard if they haven't confessed Christ, there's no hope.

Because there is unless and again, I can always say, you know, maybe they confess Christ at some point. You didn't know it. But if you know my understanding of confessing Christ is that people will know it because your life will have changed.

So it's it's hard to it's hard to really follow through with that. But ultimately though It is a difficult situation. It's a difficult question to answer. I would I want to give without taking the whole time.

Is there anyone who feels very strongly about this who would like to say? Well, if somebody asked me I would say one or the other. Is there anybody here who wants to opine and it's okay. Again I'm not.

I'm not going to challenge you because as I've already said I I hold out hope but I don't know. Okay. Yeah, Charles Spurgeon Talk. Charles Spurgeon dealt with that Depression a lot a lot more than people realize and and I have personally struggled with seasons of depression.

Legitimate depression and when I say that what I mean is I wasn't just sad. I Was to the point of absolutely Absolute darkness and dismay and I didn't want to do anything. I didn't want to go anywhere.

I didn't want to see anyone. I felt like I was ready to die, but I did I never you know, I never considered suicide. But I understand why someone would I understand the darkness and the pain and so. And I always get real scared when I see these medic medications on TV, you know.

Take this medication for your itchy skin and it'll give you thoughts of suicide. You know, I think I'll just have itchy skin. Yeah. I mean honestly, I there's no way I'm gonna even even take that opportunity but.

But yeah, okay. I'm glad you said that brother. I appreciate that, you know and again I have some people that are very firmly if a person commits suicide he can't be saved and they and they take that very hard line.

And I mean again, I appreciate people taking a stand and I appreciate that's the position that they believe I just can't say that with a good conscience, but I also can't say that I believe that they're saved either.

I don't know. That's where my heart would really have the hardest time. Yes, sir.

And I'm. But he went to prison like six months before he overdosed and he told me to confess to Christ when he wouldn't. When he got out.

Yeah, and again, that's where we hold our hope right and and all our hope is in him. You know, if you got a guy who lived his whole life a good life. He's still his hope is in Christ. Nobody's in heaven because they deserve it.

Absolutely. Yes, sir. The third position. Yes, sir. Yeah, the God is merciful. Yeah. Yeah, well, like I said, this is a difficult subject. Yep. Did you want to say something sister? Yeah, I'm sorry, I thought you oh you do.

He I mean. That was. Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying that's why I said that's why I think ours position does differ from the OSAS position because the one saved always position tends to take the position that.

Even if you did just make that profession and there was no life change. It's still you got your heavenly ticket punched. I've heard that language. And I don't and again, I'm not disparaging my Baptist brethren.

I have a I have a degree I have two degrees. From a Baptist seminary. So I feel like if there's anybody who are one I are one in a sense, you know, I can speak my I can speak with you know, and I love.

You know, I feel very I feel very a strong kinship with this 17th century English Baptists because that's really the tradition out of which our Understanding of the Reformation comes, you know the 1689 Brethren the 1644 brethren, you know the ones who came together.

And so so I just think I think that what's happened is the perseverance of the Saints and people say what's the difference between this? And this well the difference here is that and I'm not disparaging but often what the difference is here is Salvation is is tied to a one-time Verbal confession baptism or some other action.

In fact, that's how you usually define baptism. Or that's how you usually define salvation, right? Did you? Profess Christ or did you go down the aisle or did you raise your hand or did you get baptized?

And they tie that to that moment in their life and I've often I've heard Baptist preachers say well, if you ever doubt your salvation go back to the time of your Confession and that's when you find your hope.

Bible never says that the Bible says examine yourself. It doesn't say examine when you got saved. So that and I and again, so I would I would agree with you that that that The that I think that she's holding on to more of an OSAS.

Oh. That's yeah I would definitely discourage that and we're gonna and I am gonna I want to say something in a minute about that too because I Want to point out the fact that the Bible never gives any encouragement in this direction and it always.

Anybody who commits suicide and there's several people who did commit suicide in Scripture. It's always seen as The the route of the wicked it's never seen as the route of the righteous and that's just another.

You know, that's not that's not that's not proof of anything. That's just a point to be made. It's it's but brother has it. Yeah I Don't even think I could even make. Yeah. And there there are there. While I wouldn't disagree with you I would say if a person confesses Christ in there and nothing changes their life is.

Yeah, then I then I would say that that's evidence that it probably is not a genuine confession, but Again, we don't know. We're just basing it on what we see. That's what James says, right? He says you say you have faith and I show you my faith by what I do.

And if you say you have faith and do not have works your faith is dead. So and that means I My belief is what James is saying is you don't have faith dead faith is not just a different type of faith. It's the absence of faith.

Or there it's a faith of demons is what James says. He says you say you believe G demons believe, you know, but I but I'm not. Yeah, I'm with you. We can't. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Hey since Johnny's here, let's close that door.

Thank you. No, no that we were just we knew you were coming. So we left it. We we we we left you a red carpet brother. We knew I did somebody else want to opine before we move on. Yeah, mr. P.

Mock and make fun of when I was a child when I was a teenager. We make fun of Jesus and pagan activity and parties and stuff. They can make you fall remarks and I just didn't understand what that meant.

When I was young I couldn't recognize what that was. I mean she took her own life as a non-professional Christian, of course and it's just for a long time before I Got the words from where you got in the media.

I was like, well, I guess she's in purgatory or some weird thought process until after the things lined up as they were supposed to be. And then now I really see what that all means. It's really important.

It's a complete other side of the spectrum. Yes, no, I love there. She was a great person, but at the same time Never ever said anything good about Jesus around me or anybody.

I Want to add a thought thank you James for sharing that and then I know that's a tough situation. Like I said with my cousin, it's it's hard to even think about. I want to add a thought even if a person who commits suicide Does go to heaven that does not make the act of suicide justifiable.

That's that's a very clear I think we made that clear at the beginning, but I want to reiterate it. We're not affirming the righteousness of suicide. You know, we're affirming the grace of God, but not the righteousness of suicide.

Okay? And as I just said brother when we were talking is that I want to give you four Cases of suicide in Scripture if you want to look these up at some point and think think more on them. The first one King Saul fell on his own sword, obviously he didn't die right away.

But that was an act of attempted suicide that's in 1st Samuel 31 4 through 6 a hippo fell hanged himself 2nd Samuel 17 and 23 Zimri burned the king's house down with himself inside 1st Kings 16 18 and of course Judas Iscariot hung himself in Matthew 27 and verse 5.

So again all of these guys that I just mentioned and just those few examples are Certainly not men who were at the time considered to be righteous or in the will of God. So certainly not justifiable from a biblical perspective.

But that leads to the second question. Would it ever would it ever be justifiable to take one's own life? And most of us are familiar with cases where people die in the act of saving someone else so for instance a soldier is.

In a group of other soldiers somebody throws a grenade he lays on the grenade. The grenade takes his life and everyone else is spared. We would never identify that as suicide. We would identify that as sacrifice.

All right, and we would say that such a thing is not only noble or rather justifiable, but it's noble. Jesus said greater love. Has no man that the one who lays down his life for his friends. So I only mentioned that because there are people who try to justify suicide.

With those types of and the only one I can think of even close in Scripture would be the story of Samson. Samson does in a sense take his own life under the power of God even he takes his own life at the end of his narrative.

And that one always kind of made me kind of rub my my chin and go wow God gave him the power to destroy his enemies, but he died too and How you know that might just be something for your own personal thought to think through.

How do we really understand that? I just don't see it as a Act of intentional suicide as much as I see it as just like a soldier in battle giving himself for the cause. I think we could see Samson as giving himself for what he considered to be a righteous cause which is destroying the enemies of God.

But he did die and he certainly did die by his own hand and in a sense. But there are situations Where a person makes a decision to die where it might not seem so noble. But it might seem equally as justifiable and I want to give you an example.

Brittany Manard was 29 years old. When she was diagnosed with terminal brain tumor the prognosis included uncontrollable seizures and severe pain and In her home state of California physician assisted suicide Was illegal so she moved to Oregon.

Where at the time it was legal. She went ahead with the procedure to take her own life with the help of a doctor and her story Actually made national news and she actually became her story became the impetus.

Which helped get a bill passed in California. Where now California has signed into law physician assisted suicide as of 2015. Some see this not so much as suicide, but as euthanasia and we are going to talk about euthanasia in a minute.

But and by the way, just for just so you know when we get there, we'll talk more about it. Euthanasia is Greek and we're going to study Greek next term. EU prefix means good Eulogy. You good word sort of what eulogy means you use prefix means good.

Thanatos is death. Thanatos so euthanasia means good death. That's that's what this. Or as some would call it death with dignity death with dignity. Okay, so some would say that Brittany Maynard was trying to avoid the indignity of Losing her faculties Losing her bodily control pain and suffering and as a result she chose to simply go with a good death Rather than a bad death and I before we even go further I think we all can sympathize with the pain.

None of us that I know of have had a brain tumor. But God. Well, the question is does God allow That we would take control over our own mortality. That's really the question. Or is this a usurpation of?

His divine Control his divine sovereignty. Are we usurping his authority and saying we're going to do it ourselves? That's really where this comes in. And I and I have a biblical example of this if you want to write write this down.

Now this may seem a little out there, but I think it's a good example in judges chapter 9 verses 50 to 57 a Bimelech and there's quite a few of them Alex in the scripture. So this is just one of them not everyone but this is one a Bimelech has in Battle been injured by a woman.

She dropped a stone on his head and He is dying from this stone. So he demands that his armor-bearer Take his life. So that he would not suffer the indignity of having been killed by a woman in battle.

Okay, I know this is a far cry from a brain tumor. But it is an example of someone who wants a good death rather than an undignified death and To him undignified death means killed by a woman in battle.

So rather than that he requests that his armor-bearer kill him and Save his reputation. Is he justified? Now you may say we whisper we think I Don't think so and I and I and I still as hard as it is for me to say this.

I don't think Brittany Maynard is either. Yeah, what is. Yeah, that's a good question Johnny because that is the issue, right? What if somebody is plagued by something else that they say they can't live with?

Yeah, and so do we allow for suicide in any case? As long as the person is feels like they just can't handle whatever the situation is. Yeah, yeah because he believed that he was helping by providing a good death.

He believed he was helping by providing these people with this. Oh sure. Hmm I never seen the paintings but I believe you.

Fifteen-year-old girl couldn't live with this. Yeah, and it was very we might consider minor. Mm-hmm. Fail the test or something ridiculous. Yeah. Parents let her die. I'm just like so to your point.

I would say nothing is only because you're taking away Your opportunity to serve Christ in another way because if you show up in a hospital or this or that You can preach to the gospel.

That's a good example to you you're robbing God of whatever he you know, whatever the purpose in your in your life may have been. That's that's a good. That's very good. You're saying that it's impossible.

I mean what I'm saying is when you when you take the right of suicide, you're saying there's no hope. Yeah, and and and and that's a good point. Yeah, we're so I again, I I do not find anywhere in Scripture where there would be justification for suicide even in the event of extreme circumstances and that Is hard because there are people who seem to be suffering greatly and and yet.

What do we do we stand on the word that's all we can do again, this is Christian ethics this isn't global ethics. If a woman drops a rock on my head my wife's gonna get her. Exactly. Yeah, like I said, I just thought it was an interesting.

Sort of parallel. I know it's sort of a wild parallel. But for me, here's a guy who wanted a good death. He didn't want what he considered a bad death. And it's about as close as I could get to it to this this type of thing and again I Want to now we're sort of already on euthanasia we've already mentioned it but I'll move to euthanasia and sort of tie these two together because the difference really between euthanasia and Suicide is the introduction of someone else often making the decision.

If you choose to commit suicide You're choosing to end your own life. Euthanasia usually means someone else is choosing to end your life or in the life of someone else. So that's really where the where it's different even physician assisted suicide, which is a form of euthanasia.

You're still making the decision. The physician's not coming to your house to kill you. You're going to him so that he'll kill you. I mean you understand right? It's still it's a personal in that sense.

It's a choice. It's a decision. Whereas euthanasia often happens to people who can't make the choice. What was the lady who had the feeding to baby? We're talking about her Terry Shiva, right? She's not making a choice.

Somebody's making the choice on her behalf and so that's why I think the distinction between suicide and euthanasia while some suicide can be euthanistic or euthanize, you know a euthanizing of someone it's typically that's the distinction so It's long been the custom of many people and I wrote this kind of weird so I want to read it as I wrote it.

It's long been the custom of many people that when a beloved pet Becomes too old or infirm to enjoy a good life He is taken to the vet and put down usually this justification or the justification is that we don't want the animal to suffer and I remember growing up having several pets that were put down because they were either sick or Too old to survive or they were very infirm the same arguments in a sense are used for euthanizing people if They are in a constant state of suffering.

Why not put them out of their misery if we would be so good to an animal Why would we not show the same mercy to a person? That's the argument and again. We're looking from the other perspective but immediately we have to recognize that the comparison breaks down almost immediately because Animals are not people don't get offended.

I Know we love our furry babies or whatever. They're called the people who have their dogs in there. Don't you shoot me? We love their animals and that's fine. But we do understand the qualitative difference between humankind and Animal kind at least we should the biblical differences is very clear therefore the ethical dilemma of putting down a dog or a cat or any other animal is not on the same level as Taking the life of a human being and just just not even in the same ballpark.