January 29, 2018 Show with Ron L. Kohl on “When Your Doctor Says ‘You Have Cancer'”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnton. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 29th day of January 2017 and I heard some bittersweet news today.

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A dear old friend, a senior saint who was a crucial friend of mine when

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I first became a born -again believer in Christ, she and her husband, although decades my senior, really latched on to me and occupied a lot of my free time as a single young man with much fellowship and just laughter and Bible study and all kinds of Christian activities where if I was left to my own state as a young single man,

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I don't know what I might have been drawn to do if it were not for this couple, Nigel and Barbara Stone.

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Well, Nigel had already departed into glory a number of years ago but Barbara Stone, who

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I don't know for certain how old she was because Nigel and Barbara never would reveal their ages to anybody, but they were certainly or I believe

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Barbara was certainly in her 90s and she went home to be with the

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Lord today, I have just learned from my former pastor and this is a bittersweet day because while it's always sad when you hear about the death of a

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Christian loved one, it is filled with simultaneously joy especially when you know that the person lived a full and rich and godly and God -fearing life and when you are certain where that person is and we know that Barbara Stone is now in eternity with Christ along with her husband

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Nigel and I ask of you to pray for the surviving Stone family, in particular their son, their only child

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Jonathan, who I believe is in his 40s perhaps he's even in his 50s by now, but Jonathan and his wife and children and so on and the rest of the

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Stone family and I just wanted to give that message for all of you today who might even know

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Barbara who was a member before relocating to Tennessee, was a member of Calvary Baptist Church in Amityville and in fact was a member of the very first church that I began attending on a weekly basis,

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I don't even think I was a born -again believer at the time but I was searching, they were members of the

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Evangelical Church of God in Lindenhurst and then when I wound up getting baptized at Calvary Baptist Church in Amityville over Forum Baptist Church on Long Island they were there when

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I got there so we both moved there by the providence of God and it was such a joy to know them and be such close friends with Barbara and Nigel Stone but today we have a very important guest in fact

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I want you right now to call or text or email anyone that you know that either is suffering with cancer or perhaps they themselves have a loved one who is battling this very serious illness because today we have a survivor of cancer on the program,

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Pastor Ron L. Cole, he is former youth pastor at Cedar Crest Bible Fellowship Church in Allentown Pennsylvania, a former camp counselor at Victory Valley Camp in Zionsville Pennsylvania, former full -time sports editor for a weekly newspaper, editor of the

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PNR publishing book The Triune God, and chairman of the

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Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology and we'll be finding out more about the Quakertown Conference in just a bit.

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He's also senior pastor of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown Pennsylvania. Today we are going to be addressing the theme when your doctor says you have cancer and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Ron L.

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Cole. Chris it's good to be with you my friend. And in fact I found out that my guest had cancer the day after he did.

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I was at the Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology in 2016, that's

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I believe that was correct in November of 2016? That is correct. And the very next day that after you had been diagnosed with cancer that was the first day of the

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Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology and you just happened to sit down with me for a cup of coffee or a snack or something and you had told me that you had this tumor, but we will get into that in a moment.

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First I want for you to let our listeners know something about Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology.

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We are a partnered event with the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, the ministry that the late

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Dr. James Montgomery Boy started many years ago to call the evangelical church to reformation.

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Many of you are probably aware of the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, the longest continually running

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Reform Conference in our country. I've been an attendee for many, many years and many years ago

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I heard someone from the pulpit, it was probably Rick Phillips, say you know we have this conference in Philadelphia but we are open to having it in other places.

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And the light bulb went on and I thought even though we are just a medium -sized church in Quakertown, Upper Bucks County, Pennsylvania, the light bulb went on and said well why not?

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And within two years, 2008, we hosted our first Quakertown Conference and here we are over a decade later and I'm already fully planned for 2018 in terms of speaker and theme.

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We're working on 2019. Praise God and God willing I will be there at the 2019

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Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology as well unless God has plans,

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I'm unaware of. And now let us hear something about Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

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A lot of people when they hear that name they may think that is just the name of some independent church but Bible Fellowship Church is actually a denomination or at least a fellowship of churches, is it not?

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It is a denomination but I run into that problem all the time whenever someone tries to sell me advertisements for the phone book.

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The Bible Fellowship Church, you're an independent church, no we're a denomination.

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You're something else, no we're not. There are about 65 Bible Fellowship Churches.

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Most of them are in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, although we have branched out into Mexico.

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In fact, our church in Mexico is already in the process of planning daughter churches. So we are a little unique in the sense that we came from a

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Mennonite background and we are the only denomination I know of that actually did a bit of a flip -flop from an

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Arminian position to a reformed Calvinistic understanding of soteriology. That was back going on 50 years ago but that's who we are.

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And you cannot get more Arminian than the Mennonites. Yes, that's pretty much but it's often said that we weren't really good

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Mennonites. We weren't always as pacifistic as some other Mennonites and it actually started over 150 years ago as I understand it when basically a half dozen young men in the

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Zionsville, Emmaus area just thought it would be a great thing to go off and start and have a prayer meeting.

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And the powers that be sort of put the kibosh on them so they broke away and formed the

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Evangelical Mennonite Society which eventually became the Mennonite Brethren in Christ. And then several of our pastors, finally all of whom had been laymen at one point with the understanding that formal

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Christian education was not to be desired, well some of them went off to Bible colleges and seminaries and at that point discovered reformed theology.

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And we finally decided that we couldn't stay with the, you know, Mennonite Brethren in Christ, they're my brothers, but we just had too many differences and we broke off and formed the

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Bible Fellowship Church. Yeah, next to the Church of God, Findlay, Ohio, and perhaps the

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United Methodist Church, I think that the Brethren in Christ are the largest denomination where I am in Carlisle.

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I mean, I think in this one town alone there's several Brethren in Christ congregations, there's a lot of them around here, that's for sure.

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But there are more Bible Fellowship Churches than people might think, especially if you're trying to call and sell me an ad on the phone book.

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And I was honored to be in attendance at a pastor's fellowship that the

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Grace Bible Fellowship, or should I say the Bible Fellowship denomination, had in the Poconos not long ago with Phil Johnson.

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I was invited to be present there and it was a real joy to be there and I really enjoyed myself thoroughly at that conference and look forward to future opportunities.

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What I usually do when I have a first -time guest is I have them give an abbreviated version of their testimony of salvation.

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I'd like to get an idea of what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what providential circumstances our

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Lord used to draw you to himself and then finally save you, and then of course how you realized you had the call upon your life to become a minister.

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Providence is the word that always comes to mind because the circumstances surrounding my salvation were absolutely amazing.

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It was the death of my brother that brought first me and then the other members of my family to saving faith in Christ.

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My parents were raised Lutheran, Christmas and Easter Lutheran, I guess you would say.

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But living in Center City, Allentown, someone, if I'm tracing it back, someone placed a door hanger on my parents' door in Center City for Vacation Bible School at Bethel Bible Fellowship Church in Center City, Allentown, and my brother

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David went off to VBS and immediately fell in love with the church, heard the gospel, and responded to it, even as a small child.

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As he got close to his eighth birthday, he became sick, deathly sick.

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By the time they figured out that he had a form of encephalitis, it was too late to save him. The Lutheran pastor that my parents were familiar with did nothing to minister to the family, but Carl Castle, the pastor at Bethel, reached out to them, loved them, and they, after David's death, sent me to church.

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And you can see where God moved all the way through, and the wonderful thing is that I've had a long -time friendship with the pastor of my childhood.

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I just saw Pastor Castle just a week ago, and just love him still.

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He is so influential in the lives of my family. Praise God. And, of course, that does not mean to say that there aren't many

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Lutheran pastors that would not have reached out with you. That's right. I don't want to cast aspersions on a denomination.

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It was just in this one instance, what my parents needed as they moved through the mourning process was exactly what they received.

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Amen. In fact, I can openly say that during a dark period in my life, when

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I was a backslidden Christian and had returned to the sin of drunkenness that I had abandoned for 18 years, a local

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Missouri Synod Lutheran pastor was really a primary source of encouragement and comfort to me when

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I was awaiting entrance into a Christian rehab ministry in North Carolina. So, my shout -out to Pastor David Anglin of St.

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Paul's Lutheran Church in Amityville, Long Island, just so we know that there are some very

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Christ -like Lutheran ministers out there. And so, when did you realize, you know,

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I really believe God wants me to be a pastor? Some people just need a little nudge, and they have a sense of God's calling.

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I'm more of a two -by -four kind of guy. I went to Moravian College as a journalism major, had a full understanding that God had given me a talent to write, but was always thinking it from a worldly perspective.

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If I had followed through on my own plans, I might be heading to Minneapolis right now to cover the

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Philadelphia Eagles in the Super Bowl. I was always a sports guy, and I had the privilege, it seems like a past lifetime, to get down and cover a few

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Eagles games, 76ers games, Phillies games, but I was a journalism major. And it was interesting that between my freshman and sophomore years,

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I had the director of Victory Valley Camp come to me and say, you know, we need a counselor. And my first question, man of the worldly mind, how much does it pay?

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He said $300. And I thought, $300 a week is a very nice job. It was $300 for the whole summer.

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I think I got 23 cents an hour. But it was there that I learned that God had gifted me to, well, essentially to preach, because they kept giving me campfire talks and people kept responding to them.

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And this shy kid came out of his shell and never went back in. So it was at that point that I began to think, there's something there.

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And I immediately got involved in junior high Sunday school teaching and taught for a quarter century. But all the while through,

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I got my degree in journalism from Rabian and got involved in the newspaper as a sports editor.

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Even up until a year and a half or two ago, I was still doing some freelance high school coverage for the morning call on Allentown.

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But God progressively started grabbing my heart. And even what was a passion for professional sports, the kid in a candy store kind of Christmas morning feeling of going down and covering famous people was replaced by a love for high school kids.

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And at age 39, I left newspaper business completely from a full -time perspective and became a youth pastor.

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A 39 -year -old youth pastor is kind of the Methuselah of the I loved every bit of it.

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And when I got engaged, that's when churches started saying, we're interested in considering you as a senior pastor.

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So my wife and I, my dear wife, Kendra, and I, we got married in September 2003.

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And in June 1st, 2004, we came to Quaker Town as the Senior Pastor Grace Bible Fellowship Church. And we've been there ever since and love our, we have such a dear congregation.

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I'll praise God. Now, why did you choose a Moravian college? There's only two things I know about the

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Moravians. Number one, Andy Griffith went to seminary, had a Moravian seminary.

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And I can't remember if he was fully ordained or not. But also the Moravians were the ones who led

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John Wesley to a saving knowledge of Christ. I know that. Your memory is good, but there were no spiritual considerations to it at all.

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Growing up in Allentown, Moravian College was in Bethlehem. So it was in some ways because I laughingly refer to myself as a ghetto youth.

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We were fairly low middle class, and I'm the first person in my family ever to go to college, but we got loads of scholarships and grants.

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And I didn't have my driver's license, but my dad worked two blocks away from the campus so he could drive me to school every day.

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So those are the not very exciting parameters to my ending up a

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Moravian. Okay, great. Well, we are going to be discussing, as I already said, when your doctor says you have cancer.

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And in fact, I'd like to give our listeners our email address if you have a question of your own. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter. I can obviously understand a theme like this would readily lend itself to people perhaps having personal private questions.

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So feel free, and we will not identify you if you would rather not call attention to your true identity.

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But other than that, please give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence. Well, as I said in introducing you in November of 2016, when

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I had met you at the Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology, you had told me that you had discovered,

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I believe, it was like a golf ball -sized tumor or growth somewhere in your armpit perhaps? No, in my throat.

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In your throat, that's right, I'm sure. So tell us about that experience starting from the beginning of your symptoms and what your emotions were when you were not only discovering something that was wrong that compelled you to see a doctor, but also waiting for his diagnosis and so on.

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Because all I could tell you is the day that you told me that you were diagnosed with cancer, you were very calm, you didn't seem to be troubled by it, but of course people don't necessarily wear their emotions on their sleeve.

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Some do, but many don't. So if you could tell us about that. Chris, it was such a whirlwind and I think

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I must have been bluffing pretty well. Maybe perhaps because I was serving as the moderator chairman for the conference and we had over 300 people in the building that day, but one of the freshest memories

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I have of that particular year was trying to make announcements and introduce speakers when

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I had a tumor, officially large B -cell non -Hodgkin's lymphoma growing in my throat that had about two -thirds of my vocal cords blocked.

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And I'm trying to make announcements and it was just, I found myself being so frustrated that I could hardly speak.

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I am a high tenor, Chris. I was a low bass. And fighting to get the words out to the point where if anyone were to go onto our church's website, one of the last sermons

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I preached before going into the hospital and being treated for it, I can pull it out and listen to it and I think it was someone else.

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It just was not me. It did not sound like me. It was low gravelly voice, which is not who

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I am. So here I was wrestling with all the emotions, but at the same time knowing that I was responsible for overseeing a theology conference with speakers coming from all over the country and trying to make sure that everyone's needs were met.

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But that was very much a trial, a trying time in my life, for I had only found out,

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I remember meeting with an ear, nose, and throat specialist and it was Halloween day. It seems entirely appropriate for, you know, a day of dark things.

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And he took a biopsy and he said, you know, I don't want to be sure until we get the results of the biopsy, but I've been doing medicine for over 20 years and that sure looks like cancer.

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Wow. So how did that hit you? What was your emotional response to that? I know there's a sense in some circles that Christians are supposed to be stoics and internally optimistic, but my wife and I wept for about three days, you know, praying, crying, because cancer is,

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I know there have been so many advances made in cancer treatment, but you hear that C word and when you hear it applied to you,

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Chris, I'm not afraid to die. And yet I look at my life and I have so many things that I still want to do.

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I know the hope of glory, Christ in you, the hope of glory, and yet the idea that I wouldn't be able to do some of the things that, and I'm not just talking big goals, but just I love my life,

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I love being a pastor, I love my flock, and the idea that that was threatened was hard to take.

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I just don't think of myself as a courageous person, and yet God supplies grace.

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He supplies strength. His grace really is sufficient for me, but I had to relearn that, and there's a big difference between theory and practice.

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I had to actually live it out. Amen. Yes, there are Christians who unfortunately behave like Job's friends, and I put friends in quotes.

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Who are fine until they actually open their mouth. That's right, exactly. They did the right thing when they were silent, and Christians can say the most remarkably stupid things, very often very well intended, but those that think that a

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Christian, if his faith is strong and real, that they should never go through periods of fear,

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I don't think that they ever read the account of Gethsemane in the Scriptures. No. I agree,

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I agree, but it's almost as if we're programmed to think and behave in a certain way, but I don't regret even working through all the emotional trauma of it, because it is, you know, your life is going along.

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The older I get, the more I like my routines, and those routines, it seemed like everything was about to go out the window, and for a period of time it did.

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Everything was set aside. By the way, what did the doctor tell you about this specific kind of cancer, about if it was, you know, malignant, if the test results were positive before you knew they were?

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Did he give you any idea of, you know, life expectancy and all that kind of a thing?

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He didn't go that far, and a lot of medical personnel, a lot of oncologists are very careful about those things.

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He did suggest, and let me see if I can remember his words almost exactly, he said, there are basically two different types of cancer that deal with your area, and if I had to have cancer, he said,

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I think I would prefer to have the kind that I think you have, which is, you know, I don't know how

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I can, you know, I'm sitting there going, oh, that's very interesting, but there's another type of cancer that deals a lot of times with the area that I was in that actually was a 50 -50 survival rate and could involve the removal of part of your jaw, which my wife made the mistake of going on the internet, trying to find as much as she could, and some of the things you find on the internet are like a house of horrors, and so I determined very quickly

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I was not going to do that. Yeah, that is probably a good step.

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I can unfortunately remember vividly, as if it were yesterday, the horrible, the horrific bedside manner that my mother's doctor had, not toward her necessarily, but towards me.

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My mother went home to be with the Lord at 70 after a bout with pancreatic cancer, and the doctors were dishonest with my mother.

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They told her that she had gallstones, and one day I went to visit her, totally relieved.

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I visited her in the hospital, and I was sitting at her bedside. I was just, the weight of the world was off my shoulders.

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We were chatting up a storm, and then the doctor walked in, and I said, just out of curiosity, doctor, is there any kind of diet or anything that my mother should be on while she's recovering from this?

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He just said, can you come with me, please? I said, okay, and we walked down the hall, and he turned around.

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He was in front of me, and as we were walking, he stopped and turned around, and with absolutely no emotion, he just said, your mother has pancreatic cancer.

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She'll be dead in six months, and I almost fell to the floor, and I began bawling hysterically, and I had to compose myself and dry my eyes, splash cold water on my face, and then dry my eyes before returning to my mother's room, because she did not yet know this.

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She was such an example to me, an amazing example, and to the rest of my family, of courage and confidence in Christ, because eventually, when we went to Sloan Kettering for a second opinion, she knew that she had an inoperable pancreatic tumor, and that it was terminal, and it was amazing to see my mother not buckle at all under this, and I remember one day when she came to visit my church, before the church service started, she started weeping uncontrollably in the narthex of the church, and I was asking her what was the matter, and you know what was the matter?

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It wasn't the fact that she had pancreatic cancer. It was that she was angry at her doctors for not diagnosing the problem sooner, and she felt guilty over that anger.

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Yeah, that sounds like a mature Christian believer, and my immediate reaction,

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Chris, is, you know, if you can't do compassion, you should not be in the medical practice.

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But it works the same way even with a pastor. If you can't be compassionate, should you be shepherding a flock?

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That's right. I deal with ill people all the time. I walk with them through the valley of the shadow of death, and I just, you know, sometimes

27:44

I just want to with them, and it's okay. It's okay to do so. Well, I know that you have made some notes throughout this whole process of the trial you have gone through, but before we go to a break, which we're going to in a couple of minutes,

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I want, obviously, because some of our listeners may be on the edges of their seats wondering what the update is on your condition, so if you could, let us know where you are at now in regard to your health and in regard to the cancer.

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This is a matter of terminology, Chris, because I heard my oncologist say certain words that I immediately drew the connection,

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I am cancer -free, and he immediately said, no, you are in remission. And then he said, it's highly unlikely you'll ever have to deal with this again.

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So I said, oh, that means I'm cancer -free. No, you're in remission. But the simple fact is that I have been in remission since May, and I saw my oncologist back in,

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I believe, November, and he graduated me from every three months to every six months.

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So I don't have to see him again until April or May, and I feel absolutely fine.

28:53

Praise God. Well, we're going to go to our first break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Pastor Ron Cole, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

29:10

USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.

29:16

We'll be right back with Pastor Ron Cole and our theme, When the Doctor Says You Have Cancer, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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34:05

This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is cancer survivor

34:11

Pastor Ron L. Cole, who is the chairman of the QuakerTown Conference on Reform Theology and senior pastor of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in QuakerTown, Pennsylvania.

34:22

We are discussing when your doctor says you have cancer. If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is

34:28

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com if you have a question.

34:33

And Pastor Ron, I'm going to go to our first questioner right away, because he's actually asking a question off -topic, but it has something to do with what you were describing in your own call to ministry.

34:49

And Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama says, Does it bother you that churches did not express an interest in you as a potential pastor until you were engaged?

34:59

The implication seems to be that single men have no place in the pastorate. Surveying the evangelical horizon does nothing to dispel that implication.

35:14

I appreciate the question, because trust me, it is one that I've thought about quite a great deal over the course of my life.

35:22

I didn't get married until I was 43. So I jokingly mentioned that whenever I've gone through an interview, they basically wanted my wife.

35:34

My wife really interviewed probably better than I did. But I've often had that feeling as a single guy, that why is it?

35:43

My thinking was even, you know, Paul was, the Apostle Paul was even saying, You know, if you have to get married, do so, but better to remain single because you could be single -mindedly focused on serving the

35:54

Lord. So I understand that I do think some churches are a bit tin -eared when it comes to considering single men.

36:01

Now I can look at it from the other side of, the other perspective of things, and my wife is such a valuable asset to my ministry.

36:10

I have the job description. She does not, but she ministers to me in such a necessary way.

36:17

I come home so many times, bearing the weight of the world, so to speak, and her presence there, to hear me unload upon her, just to share with the other half of what is one flesh for me, is such a benefit.

36:33

So I wish churches didn't rule out candidates just because they are single, but there is such an asset when it comes to pastoral care, when it comes to counseling the counselor, and when it comes to serving together that I find my wife,

36:50

Kendra, is such a helpmate to me. Is she from a Scandinavian background? Because I only know of one other woman named

36:56

Kendra, and she is of a Norwegian descent, I believe. I think she would probably say she is a Heinz 57.

37:03

She has a little bit of everything. So I can't confess that she is not

37:09

Norwegian, I do not think. Well thank you, Ted, and I know that there are even some, not only denominations, but even just specific congregations that believe that Paul requires that a man be married because of the charge that he must be the husband of one wife if he is called to the office of a bishop, which of course we, most of us in the

37:35

Reformed faith, believe there are only two offices in the church of the pastor and the deacon, and the passages that refer to elder and bishop most of us would say are the same office, but obviously there's disagreement on that.

37:50

Thank you very much, Ted, and if you also have a question later on on the actual subject that would be also helpful as well.

37:58

Well let us hear some of your counsel in regard to the initial way those of us who may one day hear from the doctor the same terrifying words you heard, you have cancer, what would you counsel our first thoughts be?

38:17

Because our initial reaction may guide, for better or for worse, the remainder of this trial that we may have to endure ourselves.

38:29

Just a few things come immediately to mind. One is to not sequester yourself away from people you love and respect.

38:38

There is a part of whatever degrees of dealing with trial that some people subscribe to, and I know it's a purely secular thing, but you go through denial and anger, don't do it alone.

38:52

I had so much help. There are two ladies in my church who are both cancer survivors, and they became regular confidants for me.

39:01

I would call them, they would call me, and we would talk through it. They knew what I was going through, and for me it was such an encouragement to hear from them.

39:13

So that is, please do not suffer alone, don't suffer in sequestering yourself away from brothers and sisters, because, hey, the last time

39:23

I checked, iron really does sharpen iron. That sounds like a good radio. So that was valuable to me, certainly to be in the

39:32

Scriptures. The Psalms were very helpful to me. I came to understand different passages of Scripture in a different way because of what

39:42

I was dealing with. So the idea of, you know, the psalmist writes and covers every emotion of life, including frustration, including discouragement, and including, you know, not understanding why

39:54

God was doing what God is doing. Although I must admit, I was always saying, I know that Romans 828 is true, absolutely, that we know that God causes all things to work together for those who love

40:08

Him and are called according to His purpose. So I started looking for purpose. Now that does not mean that God does not reserve the right to not tell you why

40:18

He is doing everything He is doing with you. He is God, and I am not. But one of the things

40:24

He quickly showed me is that I was going to come out of this, if God saw fit to grace me with remission as a better pastor.

40:34

I understand my people in a different way now than I ever did before, because when they suffer,

40:40

I can say, I have walked some of the road with you. Amen. Yes, and I can recall that the sovereignty of God, or the belief in the sovereignty of God, was such an anchor to me after my mother had gone home to glory, because I was battling with anger, because I had learned of some physicians that were doing experimental treatment of pancreatic cancer and having some success.

41:12

One of the doctors involved in this experimental area of treatment told me that Sloan Kettering had known about him for years, and they refused to let their patients know about him.

41:29

And I had a lot of anger and bitterness toward them, especially in developing weeks when my mother was on her deathbed, the way that her physician treated me over the phone.

41:43

He actually basically said, stop calling me, your mother's dying, let her die. You're annoying me, basically, is what he was saying.

41:49

I've got patients to deal with. And I think I may have said some unfortunate things like, you're going to need a physician if I ever get my hands on you, or something like that.

41:59

But really having the notion, more than the notion, the solid truth of God being in control of all things, when it really settled and took hold of my mind and heart,

42:17

I knew that my mother had a specific day and hour when she was going to be called home to glory, and that nothing that I may have discovered would have changed that decreed day and hour.

42:31

Does that have any meaning to you, as far as your own personal journey? Absolutely does.

42:38

The sovereignty of God is a bastion of strength. It is an absolute bulwark. I'm actually looking over a few of the things that I wrote, and sometimes it's interesting to go back to things that you just penned while you were going through it.

42:53

And I wrote Galatians 4, 4, and 5. When the fullness of time had come,

42:58

God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, unto the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

43:05

A lot of times we look at that passage, and it reminds us of God sending his

43:11

Son at Christmas time. But it reminds me that God is always on time. He makes no mistakes.

43:17

He's never early, never late. He does all things in the fullness of time. And that was such a comfort for me, knowing that there's not something out there that's being withheld from you that, oh, this is going to catch

43:29

God by surprise, and what a great misfortune it is. No, I knew my life, my days, my moments were in his hands.

43:38

And so, in the midst of even all the trial that I was going through, and I will not say that I did not have discouraging times, but I also had a peace that I knew that God does all things well.

43:51

Now, did you have to go on any kind of a hiatus as a pastor while you were going through this journey?

43:57

You talk about God's, you know, grace takes many forms, and God knew. He knows how

44:02

I'm geared. I am, if not a social butterfly, at least a social moth.

44:08

I need to be around. And he so arranged my chemotherapy treatment schedule that the type of chemo

44:18

I had, and I understand there are several different types and severities of it, but I would have to be in pretty much total isolation for 10 or 11 days, then

44:28

I could come out of my hole and spend time around people. And it coincided that I was able to preach every third

44:35

Sunday all the way through my chemo treatment. So, in fact, the first Sunday I was in the pulpit, after my chemo treatment had begun with most of my hair gone,

44:47

I stood at the pulpit and prayed. I'm not going to get into the details of the story, but I want you to know that the rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated.

44:55

But that was so good for me, I didn't know whether the punchline actually worked, but it was good for me, and God knew what

45:02

I needed, and he supplied it. Amen. But of course, you would fully support any pastor's decision to take a respite or hiatus or sick leave or sabbatical, however you want to phrase it, while going through something like this?

45:19

Yes, and my elders at Grace were fully supportive. They understood. You know, if I had said,

45:25

I need to step away from ministry for five months, they would have granted it. I have such understanding brothers.

45:31

But they were willing to say, you know what, there are a couple other staff members who need to step up to the plate, and they did.

45:38

My brothers were so kind to me. But they also said, you know, Ron, you need to be around people.

45:44

You need to be... How often do we as men, we define ourselves by what we do, and I'm a pastor, and I just need to be...

45:52

I needed to be preparing to preach. I needed to be doing some administration. I just needed to be around, and God -sustaining grace was there too.

46:01

Amen. And you touched on something before about don't isolate yourself from people you love.

46:09

When you don't isolate yourself, you're obviously also on the flip side of the coin, opening yourselves up to some of the stupidity that we mentioned earlier, the

46:22

Christians, even well -intentioned and loving, kind Christians who have the best intentions may say things without wisdom or knowledge or abundance of zeal without wisdom.

46:36

I mean, you could even have, as even Job's friends at times had, very truthful things to say.

46:45

But sometimes the way people can say things, even if they are true, have the opposite effect that they are intended.

46:52

For instance, if you tell somebody that you have cancer, and somebody flippantly says to you without emotion of any kind, well, remember

47:02

Romans 8, 28, bow, and pats you on the back and walks away, or whatever, something that could be true, but is thrown at you like a placard perhaps, without real feeling, without empathy or sympathy or compassion, that can be really a negative thing to somebody.

47:18

You have to learn to take some things with a grain of salt and understand that people do mean well, but they don't always connect their mouths and their brains, and they don't have the same experience as you do.

47:31

Even simple things, like I was just listening to a message D .A. Carson preached recently on the subject of suffering, and he reminded me of a situation where there was a woman who was dear to many people in a particular church, and everybody was praying for her healing.

47:47

But what if that was not God's will for her? Oh, well, he has to heal her. Well, what if glory is better, and it is better?

47:55

So people just don't automatically, you know, they mean so well, and I can't say

48:01

I ever had anybody judge me or suggest that my cancer was a result of something that I had done, but sometimes you have to understand that they only have a limited perspective.

48:14

And guess what? I had the same perspective until I started walking this trail. Yeah, that is a horrifically cruel theology as well as an anti -biblical and heretical one, the idea that if you are sick, not only if you are terminally ill, but if you have a cold, it is your fault because of the fact that you do not have enough faith.

48:40

I can remember a friend of mine back in the 1980s, I can't recall if he was the very first liver transplant, but if he was not the very first, he was one of the very first.

48:52

And his entire congregation, this charismatic congregation, were demanding of him to confess the unconfessed sin that caused this problem.

49:05

And he kept saying to them, I have confessed everything I can remember,

49:10

I don't have any unconfessed sin that I know of. He left that church and unfortunately and tragically, to my knowledge, unless something happened over those years that we became disconnected from each other,

49:28

I don't know if that man ever darkened the door of a church again. And it was a heartbreaking thing to see, but that is a very not only cruel thing to do to somebody, but it's also totally heretical, isn't it?

49:42

It certainly is, and bad theology is dangerous. What a reminder that theology is important for all areas of life.

49:52

We sometimes want to separate doctrine from application, and we can't, because proper application is always going to be the result of solid doctrine.

50:03

Now, obviously, just because there are heretical individuals and churches and denominations and so forth that misuse the area, totally abuse and twist the scriptures in regard to somebody being sick, and how

50:23

God may or may not use that as a form of chastisement, we cannot rule that out completely, can we?

50:30

I mean, we are to examine our hearts when we go through a crisis, aren't we? Yes, if there be any wicked way,

50:36

I mean, lead me in the way everlasting, yes, we don't automatically limit out, you know, rule that out.

50:42

So there was certainly time for self -reflection, but also we need to spend a lot of our time as we're going through things like that examining the character of God, examining who

50:53

God is, coming to know Him afresh and anew, understanding the general tenor of Scripture regarding any particular subject, and you'll find yourself comforted by it.

51:06

We have CJ from Lyndonhurst, Long Island, New York, who asks,

51:12

Do you have any books that you can recommend that may have been used of God to comfort and courage and strengthen you during their trial?

51:20

Well, it's interesting how you find, as I've said in doing some of the writing that I've done, that there's an awful lot of books on the subject.

51:30

From people like, oh, okay, I'm just looking at my bookshelf, David Jeremiah went through cancer as well, and his book,

51:39

Abandon the Road, deals with an awful lot of his working through the Psalms, and he had a pretty virulent form of cancer that kept coming back.

51:50

That's one that I have in mind. Deborah Howard's book, Where is God in All of This?

51:57

Finding God's Purpose in Our Suffering. Wayne Mack wrote the foreword, it's from PNR Publishing.

52:03

Also, this is basically a transcript of a past conference, but it's

52:10

John Piper and Justin Taylor as general editors, Suffering in the Sovereignty of God. Those are books that were all on my shelf.

52:19

And Pastor Piper was himself a cancer survivor. Yes. So, yeah, there's definitely something to be said about men who have come out the other side.

52:29

Tim Keller has written, I don't have every book in front of me, oh, here it is, Walking with God Through Pain and Suffering, Timothy Keller.

52:38

A book by Milton called Songs in the Night, written from a more pastoral perspective,

52:44

How God Transforms Our Pain to Praise. So I guess I'm giving you probably more than I thought, but they all happen to be on my shelf.

52:52

They've never gone far away. And one more, Lincoln Duncan's Does Grace Grow Best in Winter, which

52:58

I'm sure in Dr. Duncan's case, these were sermons that he preached. And that's probably the best title

53:04

I've ever heard for a book on that subject. I have a couple, even though I've never personally experienced having a life -threatening illness myself,

53:14

I have not only witnessed my dear mother and father enter into eternity, but my precious bride,

53:26

Julie, after nearly 20 years of marriage, went home to be with the Lord unexpectedly after a heart attack.

53:32

But books that have helped me as not the person who was actually going through the sickness, but as the loved one who was the bystander, the witness, and so on,

53:47

R .C. Sproul's Surprised by Suffering, and hoping that R .C. Sproul's family is now taking advantage, if they have not already, of that very book he wrote now that he is in glory, having departed into eternity very recently.

54:02

And I know that he was one of the contributors to the book on the Trinity, was he not, that you edited? Yes, he was.

54:08

It was a chapter from a plenary message he'd given at Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology.

54:16

And I must say, Chris, the idea of me serving as an editor for something by R .C. Sproul filled me with fear and trepidation.

54:24

This guy from a church in Quaker Town is editing R .C. Sproul? There's something desperately wrong about this!

54:32

And also, another brother who's in glory with Christ, who wrote the book

54:37

Trusting God Even When Life Hurts, Jerry Bridges. What a precious and powerful and vital book that has been in my life, personally.

54:48

I also can recommend a new booklet, it's very new, by Earl M. Blackburn, who's a friend of mine,

54:55

How Can I Honor Christ in Fighting Cancer? And Earl is going to be, God willing, my guest on this program very soon.

55:02

In fact, he was supposed to be my guest last week, but I was too sick to conduct the interview, he was in bed with the flu.

55:10

But Reformation Heritage Books has published this 30 -page booklet by Earl Blackburn.

55:16

It's the kind of thing that your church can order cases of because it's so brief and inexpensive that you can put them in the track rack.

55:23

But we are going to our midway break right now. This is a longer break than normal because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida, 90 .1

55:33

FM, requires a longer break between our two one -hour segments, so please be patient.

55:38

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

55:47

Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back with Pastor Ron Cole and more of the theme, When the Doctor Says You Have Cancer.

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And one more thing I forgot to mention that I definitely want to announce is don't forget to mark your calendar for November 9th and 10th of 2018 for the next

01:09:53

Quakertown Conference on Reformed Theology, which will be held at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

01:10:01

The theme is The Glory of the Cross. And Pastor Ron Cole, can you tell us about any of the speakers that are already on the roster at this event?

01:10:09

We have an old friend, Rick Phillips, who's going to be with us. Amen. I think this is his third or fourth time.

01:10:16

He has become a dear friend. He was with us the first year. I know Rick very well. Yeah, Rick is just a great brother.

01:10:24

David Garner, he is a professor at Westminster, just a wonderful man, wonderful speaker.

01:10:31

The one new voice will be a gentleman named Ray Ortlund, certainly have worked with the

01:10:37

Gospel Coalition, but never been at an Alliance event or Quakertown, so I'm looking forward to meeting

01:10:43

Ray and hearing what God gives him to say in this important subject dealing with the

01:10:48

Atonement. If I'm not mistaken, Rick Phillips was a tank commander in the Army, wasn't he? Yes, he was.

01:10:54

And he sounds like one if you hear his voice. I think that's a fair assessment,

01:11:00

Chris. Yeah, I've known Rick for many years going all the way back to the days when Dr.

01:11:05

James Montgomery Boyce was still with us. In fact, I can remember when I organized my very first theological debate with Dr.

01:11:16

James R. White, a Reformed Baptist theologian, and Roman Catholic apologist, Jerry Manetix.

01:11:21

I remember I had posters that Rick Phillips permitted me to put out at the

01:11:28

PCRT in Philadelphia at the 10th Presbyterian Church there during one of the

01:11:35

PCRT conferences, and I was very honored and thrilled that he gave me that opportunity to promote the debate.

01:11:41

But he's been a good man to know ever since then, decades later. I've enjoyed this friendship, and he has been an encouragement to me in many, many different ways, even simple things as recommending other potential speakers, giving me insights on whatever theme we follow through for the conference.

01:11:59

I always want our conference to be accessible to laymen and pastors alike, and Rick has just been an asset but mostly a real friend.

01:12:09

Amen. And to register for this event, you go to Alliancenet .org, Alliancenet .org,

01:12:15

click on events, and then look for the Glory of the Cross, the Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology, November 9th through the 10th, 2018.

01:12:24

And God willing, I will be there, and I'm looking forward to it. Once again, we have joined our discussion, or rejoined it, on When Your Doctor Says You Have Cancer.

01:12:36

Our guest today, for the full two hours with about an hour left, is Pastor Ron L.

01:12:42

Cole, the Chairman of the Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology and also Senior Pastor of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

01:12:50

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:12:58

Did your journey going through this trial, was it an unbent upward arrow of progress and confidence and encouragement, or was it hills and valleys and so on?

01:13:12

Did you have twists and turns, and was there ever a time when you began to doubt anything important about your faith, etc.?

01:13:21

I would say in general, my walk through the cancer road reminded me a lot of progressive sanctification in general, which is a lot of times three steps forward, two steps back, but always knowing that you began a good work and you'll be faithful to complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

01:13:40

So I will say that there were many moments of discouragement just because of the nature of chemotherapy.

01:13:47

It was always interesting to me that the first chemo session I had was six hours long, and I just kept looking at the things that they were injecting into my body, and they all had the suffix toxin or tuxin, so it just hits me quickly.

01:14:04

I'm a very, very little brain, but I got the fact that they're putting poison in my body to kill the other poison of the cancer, and chemo is everything people will tell you it is.

01:14:16

It's difficult. It kills your taste buds. Water even tasted metallic. Now, that said,

01:14:23

Chris, I actually gained 25 pounds on cancer because the only food that tasted like food was junk food.

01:14:30

I was on a first name basis with just about every fast food restaurant in the greater town area.

01:14:37

But yeah, you go through. You just get tired of it. I would begin to dread the next time a chemo session would happen.

01:14:44

the last few days before the next one, because I just knew the impact it had on my body, and yet it was hard on my body, but it did what it was supposed to do.

01:14:53

And so I have to, like everybody else, rest, reflect, and be at peace.

01:15:02

And let's see, we have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who asks, had you ever considered any type of alternative medicine during this trial?

01:15:15

I know that that is a big umbrella, which has a wide range of individuals under it that include some that seem very sound and have documented evidence for success, and of course the lunatic fringe of scam artists.

01:15:31

But was this ever a consideration, and did you ever investigate any of it? Thank you for the question.

01:15:37

I think it's a very important question, because there are times when you have to look for the options of medical care and alternative medicine, but I had received such good care at the start, and it was optimistic care.

01:15:52

This was not a case, Chris, of doctors having no bedside manner, but they gave me reason for optimism.

01:15:59

And so I recommend, honestly, in many cases, looking for a second opinion, of course.

01:16:05

And when there are cases where there's a more cynical outlook, I think it's a valid thing to look at alternative possibilities.

01:16:12

But I was given such an optimistic route that, okay, this is what we're going to do, and there was confidence in my doctors, and after much prayer, it was just, let's go with it.

01:16:24

Amen. Well, why don't you let our listeners know more about how you maintained the spirit and the forward -looking attitude that you had, of course, with eyes upon Christ during this process, because it's one thing to react initially in a certain way.

01:16:42

It's another thing to maintain a Christlike and godly mindset throughout a trial like this.

01:16:51

I can talk about a lot of different things, and certainly fix your eyes upon Jesus, the author and perfecter of your faith.

01:16:58

That is always it. And always in the back of my mind is the idea that my

01:17:03

God is not a God who does not understand what suffering looks like, because His Son did.

01:17:11

I was not alone. And as I shared already in the first hour, that it is very helpful to me to be around people who would walk the same path, people who loved me, supported me.

01:17:23

And I knew all the way through that people were praying for me. My congregation was absolutely marvelous in not only upholding me in prayer, but telling me regularly that they were upholding me in prayer.

01:17:36

One other thing. I wrote. I just wrote. And I wrote. And I wrote. And any time

01:17:42

I had a day where I had any little bit of energy, I'm sitting there in my kitchen at the table with my laptop just writing, and so much of the writing was just reflecting on not just my experiences, but what

01:17:54

God was teaching me through His Word. I would recommend journaling, writing, for anyone going through this.

01:18:02

You will find it helpful. And it's just interesting during the break while I'm listening to some of the commercial sponsors,

01:18:08

I'm just going back over some of the things that I have not read probably for close to a year. And it's an encouragement to me even now.

01:18:18

And you have shared with me that there's a possible consideration that you will eventually compile lists for manuscripts for,

01:18:25

God willing, eventually getting published. Maybe somewhere along the way.

01:18:31

I've always felt that I have a book in me. This is not the book that I intended to write, but this is the book that God deigned for me.

01:18:40

But there are times when I think something that is so emotional can be too close, so I basically put it to bed for a while.

01:18:47

Chris, if anybody actually wants to read it, email me, send me some information,

01:18:53

I'll be glad to pass whatever I've written along, because it's basically just a series of reflections, trying to keep my good humor, not always maintaining it, but just a lot of things that God is teaching me.

01:19:05

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says,

01:19:13

I know that Pentecostals and Charismatics may mishandle the

01:19:18

Word of God when it comes to healing, but I'm also concerned with my fellow Reformed brethren who seem to be so shy or paranoid about anything that looks like we are to look optimistically for a healing and expect one when it comes to a sickness either within ourselves or amongst anyone in the

01:19:41

Church. And why is it that it seems to me, in my experience, so few

01:19:47

Reformed pastors and Christians adhere to the teaching in James 5, verse 14, as anyone among you sick, that he must call for the elders of the

01:20:01

Church, and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the

01:20:07

Lord. I appreciate the question, RJ, and I thank you for it. I must say that I never lost my optimism that God was going to heal me, and I was not hesitant about praying for healing all the way through, although I do understand that there almost seems to be a very uneasy truce between God's sovereignty and almost a fatalistic approach to illness, that it's almost a caesa rasa, and it seeps into some

01:20:39

Reformed circles, and yet, James, the last time I checked, is part of the biblical canon, and we are invited to pray for healing, and even in some cases, and I have gone to hospitals and taken some of my fellow elders, and we have anointed with oil, if that is what

01:20:56

God's Word is saying we can and even are encouraged to do, we should do it.

01:21:02

So I don't want to overstep the idea of God's will, because sometimes God's will is to call

01:21:08

His servants home, but until we know for certain, and do we really know for certain?

01:21:14

I mean, there are some cases where I just, you know, I was just telling a brother in Christ today who looks like he's going to be walking the cancer road, and I said to him, my brother, you fight, and you fight, and you fight until God makes it clear that you are to stop fighting, and if that means praying for healing, if that means calling upon the elders of the church, please, the

01:21:34

Bible's telling you to do it, so let's do it. We have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who says,

01:21:41

I have heard a number of times what seems to me to be very wise counsel, that we should not be looking at ourselves as counselors all the time, especially if we are not ministers of the gospel officially, but just smother people with love when they are going through trials, be there for them with hugs and shoulders to cry on, to bring them food, to alleviate them from responsibilities and unnecessary work that they might not otherwise have to do with your help.

01:22:17

Am I on the right track here? You are so on the right track. Those things work like a medicine, and sometimes they are some of the most precious medicine you can have, to know that people care, and they put legs and arms and sinews on their care to provide meals for you.

01:22:39

So many people in our church just cooked for me. Can I bring you a meal? And if you ever saw me, well, you have met me,

01:22:46

Chris, you know that I will never turn down a meal. But they lifted my spirits.

01:22:51

It was just so, so delightful. Please, that's what churches need to do, because you just never know.

01:23:00

I just sat at times at home weeping tears of joy, because I knew that I was loved.

01:23:09

So I can't recommend that too heartily. Amen. And we have

01:23:15

Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, and he asks, what role, if any, do you think humor should play when you are seeking to comfort someone in trial?

01:23:27

Some people might be too shy or intimidated to say anything funny, because they will be viewed as being insensitive.

01:23:36

Thank you to that reader. I hope I have not indicated that I am entirely somber all the time.

01:23:44

You have to know the person you're, you have to have the relationship with them.

01:23:49

You have to know them. Because there are times when humor is inappropriate, but the last time

01:23:55

I checked, the Bible does say a merry heart works like a medicine. And to have light and gentle humor, to make a cancer patient laugh is so delightful.

01:24:09

So many times as a pastor, I do pastoral visitation, and I actually, I almost inflict myself upon my people.

01:24:15

I call them pesterings, and I just, if I can just make them laugh, I consider it a worthwhile visit.

01:24:22

That's not that I try to become a clown or do something that's inappropriate, but just to remind them that God is faithful and good, and he has even given us humor to lighten our spirits.

01:24:34

Amen. And not that I would recommend every episode of Seinfeld, so I don't want to get hate mail.

01:24:40

Yes, it has to be appropriate. But I can tell you that my mom, during the last six weeks of her life on this earth, when she was at home waiting to enter into heaven, she would call me up and say,

01:24:54

Chris, can you come over and watch Seinfeld with me? And I actually wrote to Jerry Seinfeld to tell him that, hoping it would open the door for evangelism, but I never got a response from him.

01:25:04

But, because I actually was raised within a stone's throw of where he was raised, on Long Island, and my mom, just something about Seinfeld, tickled her funny bone, even though she was of an older generation, and obviously it had value to her that she made sure she watched it every

01:25:23

Thursday. There's something to be said about actually almost having a go -to set of movies, that when you're down, when you're in the middle of a chemo cycle.

01:25:34

For me, I'm going to date myself and show myself as a lover of show tunes, but I would watch the

01:25:40

Music Man every so often. You can't listen to 76 trombones or watch

01:25:47

Buddy Hackett mangle the English language. I'm just laughing hysterically, and I find myself singing along.

01:25:56

By the way, you just dredged up a horrific nightmare for me, because I can still remember as a kid, a little kid, tiny kid, when my parents had company over,

01:26:07

I ran to my room weeping because the Wizard of Oz was on at the same time that the

01:26:12

Music Man was on, and they insisted on watching the Music Man. That's unfair TV programming.

01:26:20

I don't know why I remember that. If you asked me to, I could kill all your rating by just starting to sing

01:26:26

Shapoopy right now, right in the middle of the Music Man. Bet you probably never had that on Iron Shard, and you probably never wanted to have it again.

01:26:35

And I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit, but I was 27 years old when that happened. I'm only kidding. We're going to our final break right now, and if you'd like to join us, please do so now or forever.

01:26:47

Hold your peace, because we're rapidly running out of time. And of course, I'm kidding there, you can contact Pastor Ron afterwards if you would like to.

01:26:53

But as far as this program is concerned, if you'd like to ask a question, send an email now as soon as you can to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:27:00

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And please give us at least your first name, your city, your state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

01:27:13

USA. Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages with more of Pastor Ron Cole and our theme,

01:27:19

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Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon

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Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study, because everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back, and please, if you listen to my friend

01:34:07

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01:34:18

And we are back with our final 25 minutes of discussion with Pastor Ron L.

01:34:24

Cole of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania, on the theme, When Your Doctor Says You Have Cancer.

01:34:31

If you'd like to join us, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:34:38

And Pastor Ron, we have Erin in Indianapolis, Indiana, who doesn't have a question. She just has some words of encouragement for you.

01:34:45

Thanks for this topic and conversation. I traveled this road a couple of years ago on a very small scale without needing chemo, only radiation.

01:34:55

Your counsel is good and very similar to my experience, very helpful to someone who may currently going through this battle.

01:35:07

Chris, your mother's story is a delight. And that was Erin in Indianapolis. Thank you very much,

01:35:13

Erin. Keep spreading the word about our program in Indiana and beyond. That's quite an encouragement.

01:35:18

That just made my day. Not that being on the program hasn't already made my day. I just want to be a help and an encouragement.

01:35:26

And there's so many times, I tell you, one verse that comes to mind more and more often, and the reader just highlighted it, was what we read in 2

01:35:35

Corinthians 1, where it talks about God being the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may in turn be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

01:35:49

So God gives us this for a good purpose, and hopefully we can turn around and encourage others.

01:35:55

Amen. And let's see, we have John in Bangor, Maine, who says,

01:36:02

Don't we have to walk a fine line when seeking to comfort those who are seriously ill when they are not believers?

01:36:11

We don't want to unnecessarily give them greater cause for anxiety and discomfort, but at the same time, are we to merely swab their foreheads and tell them everything is going to be all right when they may be at the doorstep of eternity, not awaiting a very good place to be?

01:36:30

Yeah, two words that come immediately to mind just as I'm listening to that insight, urgency and compassion.

01:36:40

Yes, you do need to be compassionate, understanding that they are walking through the valley of the shadow of death, but one of the things that cancer has made me is much more urgent in my desire to share the gospel.

01:36:53

As if to say to whoever it is who's lying in that hospital bed, I know this is hard and I can't promise that it's going to be better this side of eternity, but there is a hope of eternal life that you can know only through knowing

01:37:06

Jesus Christ, turning from your sins and trusting in Him for salvation. I want to share the gospel every opportunity

01:37:12

I have, because I cannot imagine walking the cancer road without Christ.

01:37:20

Yeah, I'm imagining that this would be something that you should be deeply in prayer over before you're approaching these.

01:37:28

Absolutely, pray for wisdom and discernment with what you're going to say, because you don't want to be callous and you don't want to be false.

01:37:37

One of the greatest dangers of our day is we almost make the only qualification for heaven is death.

01:37:45

Everybody dies, they're all in a better place. No, they need to know

01:37:51

Christ, and yet if they do know Christ, I've just watched too many people pass from this life into a glorious eternity and have that peace, even as they're going from one destiny, as they're walking through the valley.

01:38:07

Yes, it's not going to be easy, because every person is different, and you don't want to be so,

01:38:16

I'm assuming, you don't want to be so overbearing that the person bars you from entrance into their sick room.

01:38:25

That's right. You know, you could shut somebody down, they don't even want to listen to you anymore, especially,

01:38:31

I'm assuming, because of the manner in which you may be sharing the truth with them.

01:38:37

I mean, obviously, the gospel is an offense, and those who are lost are going to be offended in different manner, different ways and different levels and so on.

01:38:50

I have had pastors tell me that elderly people on their deathbeds will say, go away.

01:38:58

They know they're about to leave this earth, but they have no interest in hearing about the gospel.

01:39:03

They'll say, leave me immediately, and so on. But obviously, you're not going to know when you've reached that point unless you reach it.

01:39:10

Your duty as a Christian is to proclaim the gospel to them, and we as Calvinists, unlike the stereotype that has been hurled against us, we believe that God uses the earnest and urgent evangelism of Christians to the lost as his vehicle to awaken them, all right?

01:39:31

And we who have walked the cancer road have a greater open door than many others, because when someone is suffering, you actually do, in many cases, want to talk to someone else who knows what it's like to have been through it.

01:39:47

So cancer has made me more compassionate, and hopefully will continue to give me wider doors for not...

01:39:55

Yes, I agree with you, Chris, that the gospel is an offense. Let's not make it more offensive than it needs to be.

01:40:01

But as someone who understands a little bit of what they're going through, and just even in a small way,

01:40:07

I don't want to overemphasize or amplify my cancer. So many people have it so much harder than I do, but I want to be able to share with someone who doesn't know

01:40:17

Christ, hey, I know what it's like to think about death. I know what it's like to have fears and to cry tears.

01:40:25

Let me tell you about something that has caused me to be able to go through so much of this with optimism and even joy.

01:40:34

Amen. I can remember when I was a new Christian in my early 20s or mid -20s, and I had learned that the doctor, my family doctor, who delivered me from my mother's womb and had been my doctor all through my childhood, up through my late teens,

01:40:55

Dr. Daniel Bradley in Amityville, Long Island. I had heard that he had developed lung cancer,

01:41:01

I believe it was. And I went to deliver him a

01:41:07

Christian card, and he greeted me at the door and accepted the card.

01:41:13

And I basically wrote a gospel message to him, and I pled with him, if he had not already trusted in the finished work of Jesus Christ already, that he do so because it would be a win -win situation, whether he was healed or whether he departed this earth, he would be with Christ for all eternity.

01:41:32

And I even put in there a booklet, Sickness by J .C. Ryle, in the card.

01:41:38

And I remember my father, he rebuked me for doing this.

01:41:44

He said, what are you doing that for? You're going to depress him. The man's already depressed. He's dying of cancer, for crying out loud, why did you do that?

01:41:51

And I said, well, I think it's more important that he hear the truth about Jesus Christ and his gospel than to hurt his feelings.

01:41:59

I mean, people's eternal, never -dying souls are more important than their feelings. And I don't know how many years later, maybe it was two years later,

01:42:09

I went to that doctor's funeral. And at the wake,

01:42:16

I don't know if they call them wakes here in Pennsylvania, but in New York, the viewing of the body, that little ceremony is called the wake.

01:42:25

And I was there at the wake. And one of the daughters of Dr.

01:42:30

Bradley, who happened to be one of my barmaids during my wayward years, she was greeting me and embraced me and was so happy to see me.

01:42:42

And she introduced me to her sister. And she said, this is Chris Arnzen. And her sister stopped in her tracks.

01:42:50

And she said, Chris Arnzen, did you write a card to my father?

01:42:55

I said, yes. With a booklet in there? I said, yes. And she said, did you know that for two years until the day he died, that card was on his nightstand next to his bed?

01:43:06

I almost fell over. Do I know what happened to that man before he departed this earth?

01:43:13

Do I know if he actually took heed to what I wrote? I don't know, but that was definitely an encouraging sign. And it goes to show you that, like I said before, and I'm sure you agree, that we are not to be more concerned with the feelings of those who are sick and dying than we are over their immortal souls.

01:43:30

God uses means, and he might just use you. And yes, eternity is at stake.

01:43:37

And so much of it is just, do we love people enough to share the gospel with them?

01:43:43

You don't have to be a jerk about it. You just need to, with compassion, say, this is what

01:43:49

I believe. This is what I've experienced. This is what the Bible tells me to be true. And you need this.

01:43:56

And it can take a great amount of fear away from someone who is breathing his or her last breaths.

01:44:03

I've just seen it. I've seen peace that God provides. Through his word and through the gospel.

01:44:09

Well, I definitely want to make sure that some of the notes that you have written over this journey that you've had, that you make as much use of them as possible during the moments that we have left.

01:44:20

If you have any other words of counsel that you might want to share with our listeners right now. Well, please, if they want to contact you,

01:44:27

I'll be glad to send them everything that I've written. I mean, it's just, it's not in book form. It's just 100 pages of reflections of just what

01:44:35

I'm dealing through. And just even some of the observations that I've had right in the middle of, you know,

01:44:41

I think I wrote, there are times when I wrote just when I, as soon as I got home from chemo, I wrote.

01:44:47

So that can be a help and encouragement to anybody. But let me also say that the final chapter is not written on a lot of different things.

01:44:57

One of the things just that I was thinking of as you're talking, Chris, is I've made friends with my oncologist.

01:45:03

I see a neurologist for chronic migraines. She's my friend now. And it's just neat how just that God is sovereign, that He has a purpose for this.

01:45:14

And He's allowed me to build relationships that I don't know where they're going to go. The final chapter hasn't been written yet, but I have more opportunities.

01:45:23

And may God open doors, even as a listener is going through cancer, may He use you for His glory and His great namesake.

01:45:32

We have, let's see, we have

01:45:37

Joseph from Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says,

01:45:44

How do you respond to the person who asks, Why me? Hard question.

01:45:52

I mean, I can give some of the basic explanations that come from Scripture.

01:45:58

Even as I've been preaching through Romans, I'm just reminded that so much of the things that happen are happen because we live in a fallen world.

01:46:06

And because we live in a fallen world, things die and people suffer. But on the other hand, there's part of me that at least can examine the possibility instead of saying,

01:46:16

Why me? Why not me? Because God has used this in my life for good.

01:46:22

That Romans 828 is actually true. And I don't know, I don't have all the answers.

01:46:28

I always like, one of my favorite lines from a sports movie comes from the movie Rudy, where he goes to see the older priest, and the priest says to Rudy, you know, who wants to play football for Notre Dame, but he weighs about 137 pounds, sopping wet.

01:46:43

And the priest says, You know, I've learned two incontrovertible facts over my 30 years of ministry.

01:46:49

One, there is a God. Two, I'm not Him. And I'm not God. But I've seen

01:46:55

God even use this for my best. And behind all this, I know that God is good.

01:47:03

And I might not understand why He chose me. Why me? But I know that His purposes are good.

01:47:10

And that is a comfort to me. Amen. Well, his words, that priest's words in the

01:47:16

Rudy movie were far more accurate than Spencer Tracy's words in Boys Town, who said,

01:47:21

There is no bad boy. Yes, you're absolutely right.

01:47:27

He obviously didn't even believe in the Catholic concept of original sin. Yeah, you know, sometimes we have to remind ourselves, we're not watching movies for theology.

01:47:38

But if occasionally I get a good illustration that is theologically accurate, I'm going to go with it.

01:47:47

One of the things that you've mentioned throughout our interview, at least a few times, is a purpose that God has in this, even if He never reveals it to us, this side of heaven.

01:47:59

That's one of the many, I believe, advantages that Reformed theology has when compared to other systems of theology or other interpretations of the

01:48:13

Scripture. Because when you believe that God is not in complete and total sovereign control over every single thing that happens, every molecule, every single puff of wind, every single drop of rain, when you believe that He is not in complete control over these things, that introduces purposelessness into our lives, where things happen at random, at happenstance, and when someone gets sick, when somebody is hit by a car, or whatever the case may be, the person is left with, that did not need to happen, this was totally without purpose, totally with no good use at all.

01:48:58

How do you respond to what I just said? I mean, there's a sense in which you don't want to be trivial about it.

01:49:03

You don't want to simplify things. But I've done funerals for people who have died in tragic circumstances, and you want to be compassionate, but behind all that, you can't actually offer hope, because the way of looking at life, the way you just described, is hopeless.

01:49:22

It is empty. It is happenstance, and it goes nowhere. And the response of that person is to almost adopt the line of the preacher, vanity of vanity, all is vanity.

01:49:36

And yes, I know that's in there, and I'm not ready to go through a whole exposition of the book of Ecclesiastes, but there is meaning, and that makes all the difference, even as you're walking the road.

01:49:50

Now, knowing that, however, I'm sure you would like to, as do

01:49:55

I, want to make clear to our listeners that, especially when it regards someone else's life, we are not to claim that we know with certainty what those reasons

01:50:06

God has are. Like, for instance, even when it comes to natural disasters, so -called, we have sometimes heard evangelical

01:50:16

Christians or fundamentalists or even Pentecostals, but not necessarily Pentecostals, say things like, the reason why that tornado or that hurricane or that flood ripped through that area and destroyed so many homes and ended so many lives was because of the high population of homosexuals there, or whatever the case may be.

01:50:39

They completely forget that there were also Christians in those areas very often, whose lives were taken.

01:50:44

But we are not to play God, where we know exactly what his plans are at all times.

01:50:50

Sometimes he does reveal those things with some kind of certainty through providence, but very often they are a mystery.

01:50:59

And yes, a mystery on this side of eternity. So we've all had opportunities to hear—opportunities is not the right word, but occasions when we've heard such things and we cringe.

01:51:13

We cringe, like, just please don't speak. But it reminds us also that we need to carefully choose our words.

01:51:21

We need to really be quick to hear, slow to speak, and then offer, you know,

01:51:27

Lord, help me to offer something that is wise in discerning the things I say, because I am not

01:51:33

God. I cannot—I'm so glad I'm not God, because I would make a botch of the entire universe.

01:51:40

But there is a God, and I trust him even when he has not revealed reasons for why he acts.

01:51:48

Amen. Well, I will use the word opportunity as I give a quote now.

01:51:56

When you use that word, even though you apologize for it, it triggered a memory of one of my favorite lines in J .C.

01:52:05

Ryle's beautiful booklet, Sickness. By the way, you can get this booklet from chapellibrary .org,

01:52:12

chapellibrary .org, which has just a ton of phenomenal resources in booklet and book form, very, very inexpensive and sometimes and very often free of charge completely.

01:52:28

But J .C. Ryle said, Jesus was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. None have such an opportunity of learning the mind of a suffering

01:52:38

Savior as suffering disciples. That's just a way that 19th century bishops have with words that is far beyond my ability to use.

01:52:49

Yes, he certainly was a treasure for the Church. I want you to have now about five minutes of uninterrupted time where you could just unburden your heart.

01:53:00

You could just talk to our listeners and let them have what you most want etched in their hearts and minds before we leave this program today.

01:53:09

Wow, that's almost a dangerous thing. Wow, what do

01:53:15

I say? I can say this, that God is faithful. When we are at our weakest point, when we think that our strength is gone, that God is faithful.

01:53:29

That God will see us through. He will give us what we need. Many times

01:53:34

He does so by means, by instruments, by people. I just, I wish,

01:53:40

I almost feel like I'm accepting an Academy Award and you have only so many seconds to say thank you to all the people that have had a role in your life and whatever project caused you to win the

01:53:55

Oscar for me going through cancer. I am thankful first and foremost for my wife.

01:54:02

I am thankful for my brothers and sisters at Grace Bible Fellowship Church. This reminds me,

01:54:09

Chris, that it is so essential to be part of a

01:54:14

Bible -proclaiming, Gospel -preaching, God -honoring church that I have never seen in general a person growing in their faith without active involvement in a church.

01:54:28

And if that is true as a general principle, how much more so is it true when you are going through trial?

01:54:35

That we are not designed as individuals to have an individualistic faith, but we are designed to grow in community, to be strong in community, and I credit my brothers and sisters in Christ here in Quaker Town with so much help, so much love, so much compassion, so much wisdom that I could not have gone through this without them.

01:55:03

And I praise the Lord for them. So many times the Apostle Paul wrote in so many of his letters,

01:55:10

I thank my God in every remembrance of you. If you as a listener to this program are going through cancer,

01:55:18

I hope that you have the great benefit of knowing that there are others who love you. They love you in the name of the

01:55:24

Lord Jesus Christ, that you have developed friendships with them that are leading them to support you even now.

01:55:32

And if you don't have those friendships, don't wait. Take the time even to extend yourself so others get to know you.

01:55:40

Be real with them. Allow them to be real with you. So when you come to these times,

01:55:45

I mean, don't wait until... How many times I see so many expressions of love at funerals.

01:55:56

Hundreds and hundreds of people will show and express their concern and their love, and there's just an old adage that I remember from my youth pastor days that says something along the lines of, if you think that praises do him, then you better give it to him, for he cannot read his tombstone when he's gone.

01:56:16

Let us not wait to love one another, because God uses instruments, and the love of the brethren is a mighty and powerful thing.

01:56:26

Amen. Well, I'm going to give your contact information, and after I'm finished, if you could close in a word of prayer.

01:56:33

Something that we rarely do here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, perhaps we should do it more often, but I know that the

01:56:38

Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology is to be found at AllianceNet .org,

01:56:45

AllianceNet .org, and then click on Events, and specifically, if you want to know more about the

01:56:51

Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology, look for that and the Glory of the Cross, November 9th through the 10th.

01:56:56

And also, the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania can be found at QuakertownBFC .org,

01:57:04

QuakertownBFC, which stands for BibleFellowshipChurch .org. Now, if you could,

01:57:10

Pastor Ron, close in prayer for us. I would be glad to. I only wanted—this is my only plug in all our time together.

01:57:19

I'm not usually a salesman, but with the Alliance, we're also running a women's conference this

01:57:24

May 18th and 19th, and it's going to be called Women at the Feet of Jesus. You can see that at the

01:57:29

Alliance website as well. Great. Let's pray together. Heavenly Father, thank you that the wonder of the glorious gospel is that it can extend even over computers and radio waves, that you can use even my feeble and frail words, the ministry of Chris, our brother, to minister to hearts.

01:57:52

But Lord, we know that you love sinners with an everlasting love, and you provide all that we need, even as we go through trial.

01:58:00

So I do pray for those who might be going even through cancer or a similar trial now.

01:58:05

May you uphold them by your grace, and may you use your word to remind them that you are their

01:58:14

Father, and they are your beloved children. So see us through. Give us strength, sustaining grace for every trial, and may you receive all the praise and honor we pray in the name of Jesus Christ.

01:58:27

Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, Pastor Ron. If you could hold on just for a moment when we go off the air,

01:58:33

I'd like to say a proper goodbye to you. Sure. It's been a pleasure, Chris.

01:58:38

Oh, it's been a great pleasure for me as well. I'm so glad that the Lord providentially opened up the door for this. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

01:58:50

Please feel free to contact Pastor Ron Cole afterwards if you have any questions or need of counsel, especially, obviously, if you are experiencing illness or perhaps you're just wondering about your own eternal state.

01:59:06

Whatever the question you may have, go to quakertownbfc .org, Quakertown B for Bible, F for fellowship,

01:59:14

C for church .org, quakertownbfc .org. And I want to also once again remind you to pray for the family of Barbara Stone, my dear friend of many years who went home to glory today, this senior saint, this precious gifted pianist trained at the

01:59:35

Royal College of Music in England who was our church pianist at Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville.

01:59:42

Please pray for the Stone family. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater