March 15, 2017 Show with C. Matthew McMahon on “The Preacher’s Charge & the People’s Duty”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's.

Our host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you a happy Wednesday on this 15th day of March 2017.

I'm delighted to have back on the program someone who has proven to be one of my favorite guests, a fountain of knowledge. I really love having this brother on the program. His name is Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.

He is founder of A Puritan's Mind and we are addressing today The Preacher's Charge and The People's Duty, a book that he has brought back into print and edited that was written by John Brinsley. And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.

Thank you so much, Chris. Very much with you and talk about this great subject. Amen. And I'd like to give our listeners our email address right off the bat. If you have questions for Dr. C. Matthew McMahon, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. And John Brinsley was a 17th century evangelist. Tell us something more about him.

John Brinsley and the Value of Forgotten Puritan Works

Well, Brinsley, Emanuel College, right when he was appointed in his life, his uncle, who's a well-known, about 20 years ago, got rejected. John Brinsley, the descendant of Dort, went with him, attended it, respected the minister in many ways, you know.

And then from that point, he was minister all through that time, up until the time of the Reformation, he was one of the ministers. So he would be a non-conformist. So much, in 13 or 14 of his books, nothing.

And this work, he's in charge of people's duty, even though it's, you know, and, like, just thinking about, and I was really thinking through, very focused, very, he's very applicable. He wrote a book here on the preacher, and yet, he's all around, and something on healing Israel's breach.

All of his works are from beginning to end. I think we're on one of my favorite books, one of those top 10, I'd say five or six, to be able to have only book on talking about the commission of the preacher.

It's more set in the work. And again, that kind of shows you marriage put together. They wanted you to tear it out of the book and hang it on your wall, put together their mind that they have not been able to read.

Where, even though many did, for example, put together his chart on salvation and damnation using circles and lines, so that people, as he said, could take their finger and place it in each one of these places and follow along, almost like a game, like chutes and ladders, when you hit the ladder and you get to climb up it.

He put a table together, book, read it, and then tear that out, hang it on the wall, and be reminded.

We have a question from Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, New York, who says, I, from time to time, discover these unknown gems, such as John Brisley, through the Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio program and through other sources.

Why do you think it is that men who have such profound talent and abilities are not as well-known today, and in fact, are often unheard of, when compared to the likes of great men like Charles Spurgeon and Jonathan Edwards?

Other publishers have come in and done things like all of Thomas Manton's work. Some of these buy them for a time, and then they become scarce. They become difficult to get. I think with just the sheer volume, it's going to be a long time.

We say, here's a gem, John Brinsley. It's not that I think we're neglecting them, because between all of these different publishing houses and putting out these great works, and now with the way that Google Books works, and maybe Internet Archive, and some of these other places where you can go and actually get some of these, all these works that are printed, but at least are available, there's just so many of them.

Unless you're constantly reading all of these original source documents, again, where are we going to get all of those? We also want to be discerning in what it is that we want to put out. Sometimes it's sad when we find a really, really good Puritan, and there just isn't anything of a book.

Gammon is one of them, and Thomas Valentine, same thing. They only have three. You take those, you put them in one volume, it makes up 100 pages or so, and then you're sad that there's no more, because they're such a good one, such a treat, once they actually get published.

But I don't think it's like an aversion to it. I just think it's time to be able to get to them, and ultimately, they should be published. I mean, I've read works that you read by people who were known at the time, like, for example, Henry Hammond, and some of his works, you just say, you know, we just don't need to do that, or he's just a little off there.

We just don't really need to deal with that particular volume, and so you have to be choosy about it.

Yeah, you mentioned Don Kistler earlier, and he said there's only a tiny handful of works that he thinks are worthy of republishing by Richard Baxter.

Exactly, right. I mean, Baxter's works, I believe Soledeo did this gigantic one, did that, little teeny tiny print, gigantic volume, 1 ,800 pages, but when you really get down about what you read by Baxter, because he's got a lot of stuff that's kind of odd.

Right.

So, you know, you want to choose the best stuff, even among the Puritans, you know, you choose the best stuff to publish.

Yes, and his Reformed Pastors seems to be universally applauded as a classic and a must-read in spite of anything else that he wrote that was aberrant in other places.

Yes, the Reformed Pastors is a phenomenal book. Any preachers who are listening, if you have not read...

And it has nothing to do with Reformed theology, they may be misled by the title. It's actually like, Reformed as in being transformed.

Yes, it's pastoral theology, it's about the pastoral ministry. It's what you should be an exhortation in that department. I had one gentleman, because every now and again I'll... What do you mean? He was like, what are you doing?

Wow.

That's what I said, you know, it's like, yeah, I mean, I definitely understood what he was saying. But yeah, so it's a classic. The way that you think about the ministry, just in...

Yeah, I have heard from at least three different pastors that I know that don't even know each other, who have said that when they were Arminians, when they first read A .W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God, they got so angry they threw the book across the room.

But then later, as the curiosity welled up in them, they had to search for it, pick it up and read it to its conclusion. And all three of them were eventually, by God's sovereign grace, drawn into that theology and accepted it.

So... Right, right.

By the way, Ronald, in Eastern Suffolk County, you have just won a free copy of The Preacher's Charge and People's Duty by John Brinsley, with chapters by our guest C. Matthew McMahon, who also edited the book.

And we thank you for submitting that question today. Give us your full mailing address and we'll have that shipped out to you as soon as possible via our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, cvbbs .com.

One more quick note about the availability of these other more well-known preachers, when you compare them to somebody who might be virtually unknown, like John Brinsley, is that Charles Spurgeon, for instance, every one of his sermons was transcribed.

I mean, all of his sermons were available in print, and so there is a difference. I discovered somebody, I don't know if you've ever read, a pastor in New York, The Life and Times of Spencer Cone by John Thornberry.

Spencer Cone was a 19th century particular Baptist in Manhattan, pastor of First Baptist Church in Manhattan, and it is quite a remarkable story. And John Thornberry, the biographer, is convinced that if Cone's writings were as available as Spurgeon's were, if his sermons were transcribed and so on, that he believes he would be just as well known today and just as much cherished as Spurgeon.

But now, what was it specifically that made a light go on in your head and say, I've got to get this book into the hands of pastors, I've got to bring John Brinsley's work back into print?

Preachers Must Preach the Word, Not Their Own Ideas

Yet his exposition. Generally, when you read, come away with what they are dealing with, because generally the whole book is going to be set on the springboard of one particular scripture. In this case, Brinsley's scripture, if nobody gets anything other than this one thing, Brinsley is pressing, pressing, pressing this one point.

Preachers are to preach the Word. And you say to yourself, well, if you're a preacher and you're a minister, isn't that what you're supposed to do? Well, yeah, that is what you're supposed to do. The United States, for example, and gone into all sorts of different kinds of churches, a lot of times you would think, or a messenger, as a minister, because Brinsley, in season or out of season, whatever aspect or time it may be, whether necessity makes it to be important or not, the preacher is supposed to be excellent.

And then, I mean, that would be in this one particular text. He never even read the text from the Bible, instead of what it is that he's at or what it is that he's trying to demonstrate to us. Well, in the course of a 25-minute sermon, 15 minutes of it were five illustrations in the beginning, the text was never read, and the rest of it never given the minister, because on it I have a finger.

Every single thing that I did over the... And that caused me to do two things. The pages, and needed to be able to have done my duty exegetically. And two, every text from that text, mind is. And for some reason, we want to begin with something other than the text, like some illustration.

I don't, honestly, I really don't understand why seminaries teach that. They add that idea of wanting to catch their interest. Me, personally, I think the Word of God is interesting, and I think we should start, we should be preaching the Word.

The Puritans used a lot of illustrations. They use what interest is a concern in preaching, because the preacher has to be... The problem that arises already is interesting. Preacher makes it... Transcribe them on Lord's Day, so that he had to be able to memorize it.

People think, oh, it's written out. They were just... In the Puritans, they should write out their sermons until they get used to being able to be precise in preaching their sermons. Edwards used to write out his sermons.

He did that on purpose. Why did all of these guys, why don't all of these... Why do we have all of these books of sermons from all of these... Why do we have them? Well, because they wrote them out. They wrote them out word for word.

They would then preach, and then... African enlarged it, and done that way on purpose. So, well, why? Exactly what Grinsley begins in his... To be preaching the Word. The command is, preach the Word. That's what it says.

They want to be able to take what is happening in that text, and they want to tense in that text together. That's what they all want. And the manner... Say, hey, that seems to be a simple idea. We need preachers to grab hold of that, take that bull by the horns, and run with that, and do that every single week when they're not doing it.

They need... That needs to be corrected. I encourage lots of people to get up there, and they give theological lectures in the preaching. Then you just have... 20 minutes needs to come every Lord's Day, and so they know that that's part of what they do.

He shows what my function is in the body. Well, that means the mind is. To men. In another book that we're working on, he says, it's a very interesting thing. He gave men men in this particular way. God uses men.

He uses men to do that.

Yes, in contradiction to the hyper-Calvinist claim, we have to go by what the scriptures teach, even if it may seem on its first appearance to contradict our theology. That's why historic Calvinism is very balanced about the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of men.

Very much so. Jonathan Edwards, in some of his sermons, said, look, he's Arminian. Look at the way that he's trying to implore people to come to Christ. That they just misunderstand what preaching is about.

Yes, and I had just had that charge hurled against Charles Spurgeon yesterday in a private conversation. But in fact, let's pick up right where you left off because we have to go to a station break. And Joe in Slovenia, we will get to your question as soon as Dr. McMahon finishes his thought when we return from the break.

If anybody else would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.

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The Minister as God's Herald and the Work of Preaching

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnsin. If you just tuned into Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, our guest today for the full two hours is Dr. C. Matthew McMahon. We are discussing The Preacher's Charge and People's Duty by John Brinsley, a 17th century nonconformist, and we are taking your emails, your questions by email at chrisarnsin at gmail .com, chrisarnsin at gmail .com.

Before I go to any of our listener emails, Dr. McMahon, if you could continue your thought on God using men to bring new life to sinners.

Yes. You know, in the Old Testament or the New Testament, God has his mat. He uses men to convert other men. It's not that the man himself does some kind of converting, but if only if the spirit uses the word.

And so talking about the minister and the office as a man bringing the word, don't get to muse up at the pulp in that way at the pulpit. Rather, the office of the minister, he's an aid to God and the people.

He does two things in his office. He deals with God for the people and he deals with the people for and from God. So when he deals in the first request, their desires, their supplications, their thanksgiving to God, they're praying for him.

Samuel said in first Samuel bid that I should sin against the Lord and the minister should be thinking one of his two main objective and Jeremiah 15, 19 from the vial, thou shalt be as it were my mouth.

The prophet Jeremiah that the prophet, the ministers of the word are God's mouth to his people. And that's where he begins by who utilized the minister in the second part of the office, which is to preach that way.

Audible voice. He says the audible voice by the will of God's mouth. In preaching, he says they take, see what he just did there. The outline for everything, some doctrine out of the text, and then they would apply if the text is analyzed and divide the text to expound some doctrine out of it, and then you apply the text.

So this was a common of the minister all through the Reformation, all through the Puritans. You go grab one of Calvin's sermonies is the very thick, some doctrines and teaching and then applied it. And that was the basic function of what it was that the ministers expound that.

Chris, when you were going to say that you had someone that had a question.

Yes, we actually have a few. We have Joe in Slovenia who says, from what I've read, John Brinsley continued to preach in the town hall after having been dismissed from his ministerial function. This was in direct disobedience to the governing authorities.

How do we understand this to be heroic when he could have moved away to another country in order to be obedient to the God ordained authorities? How do we emulate this great man of faith and others like him who did not love their life more than obedience to God in our present day as our government, as our government, more and more impinges against faithful obedience to Christ?

Excellent question. Thank you for focusing on preaching God's precious word. Very good, very timely. And obviously we are to obey the authorities above us until they have us violate his very word, right?

Yes, because he was given, in the Puritan days, they were given stipends. And so they would be under a particular and community that they cared. This was not a presbytery. It was not a session. It was not a group of ministers rich enough to be able to have a minister.

And so for Brinsley, he, in this particular, in Yartmouth, there was a conflict between another minister who thought that he was supposed to be in there instead of Brinsley. And so there was some contention.

It didn't suddenly unordain contention about who should actually be preaching in that particular church where Brinsley had to leave and he wound up preaching in another part of, wound up different than going against the magisterial or going against the government.

It was more over who was going to get the stipend, who is going to be the one paid to preach in that particular church.

But don't you think though, whether what we are never to obey any man or body of men when those commands that we are given or prohibitions we are given cause us or would have caused us to violate commands of God.

Yeah, we would never have done that. Jeremiah Burroughs called great and evil times. We are never judged in some way that would cause us even upon pain of death again. We just had a conversation yesterday.

With Dr. Barry Horner on John Bunyan. And obviously I believe that John Bunyan was completely correct to disobey the Anglican authorities who were forbidding him to preach without an Anglican minister's license because that is nothing that is commanded in the scripture.

So anyway, I really view Bunyan as a very courageous and noble hero of the faith. We have, let's see, we have Jeremiah in Charlestown, New Hampshire. And he says it is astounding and sobering at the pace at which I have seen pastors end their ministry by committing disqualifying sins.

It seems that we would do well to heed Paul's exhortation to the Ephesian elders in Acts 20 to 28. Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to care for the church of God which he obtained with his own blood.

My question is, what are specific ways that we can obey this charge? Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock so that we might avoid stumbling instead of being faithful shepherds.

...video show in the end of it.

Or a series of...

I have no doubt about that. There are so many acts the minister can do to take heed what the minister can do in that particular manner. Take heed to your life and to your doctrine. A really good work, The Faithful Minister of Jesus Christ by John Jackson.

And he talks about the breastplate of the ephah that had the 12 stones, stones that are found amazingly in the way that he deals with the text of the ministry in the Old Testament and the New Testament by each one of these stones.

Ministers, how ministers of being unfearful of men, melancholy or sad that they are to be preeminently to be a glorious shining light against any kind of possible evil. And all together, taking heed in that way encompasses so many different things and having a gravity about all the two.

William Perkins or the minister of the gospel be about that business. Now, if ministers would do that, they would avoid so many discrepancies in that way. And I agree with your emailer that astounding rate, some heinous, disqualifying way then to stop.

Amen.

And by the way, I forgot to mention to Joe in Slovenia and Jeremiah in New Hampshire that you are both getting a free copy of The Preacher's Charge and People's Duty by John Brinsley with chapters by C. Matthew McMahon.

And thank you, Joe in Slovenia for providing an American address where we will ship this to your daughter. Saves a lot of money to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com. CVBBS .com saves them a lot of money in shipping costs because they ship out all of our winners, their free books and Bibles and whatever else they win by submitting questions.

So thank you very much for your questions. We are going to go to another break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

In fact, I'm going to read you a question before the break and you can answer it when we return. I'm going to read a question by Erin in Indianapolis, Indiana. And she asked, could Dr. McMahon please tell us ways the Puritan preacher advised the hearer of the sermon to best hear or absorb the sermon or text during preaching in order to apply the word to our sanctification?

Wow, that's a pretty excellent great question. Well, we'll have you answer that when we return from the break. And as I said, if anybody else would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence. If you live outside of the good old USA, you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable for reasons such as you're disagreeing with your own pastor or something like that.

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This is Chris Arns. And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Dr. C. Matthew McMahon, founder of A Puritan's Mind. We are addressing the book The Preacher's Charge and People's Duty by John Brinsley, which has been brought into print or back into print, I should say, by Puritan Publications, a publishing arm of A Puritan's Mind.