Conference on Answering Abortion Arguments with Scott Klusendorf Session 1

Kootenai Church

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All right, let's bow in prayer and then I will introduce our speaker Our gracious God we thank you for the many rich blessings that we've been able to enjoy throughout the course of this day

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We thank you that you are a sovereign God in control of all of the affairs of men We thank you that you have by your grace provided this place for us to meet that you have brought to Scott and Stephanie his wife

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Here safely and we are grateful for the time that we can have that we have set aside this weekend To be equipped to engage the culture in the pro -life debate the pro -life issue

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Though we are convinced that abortion is morally wrong We pray that our time spent throughout this weekend may equip us to defend that to explain that and to present the gospel

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Alongside of that case for life. We pray your blessing upon this time and that you would to keep our minds and our hearts

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Focused upon you upon what is being presented and help us to be attentive to this and may you be glorified through all the transpires here

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Today and tomorrow we ask this in Christ's name. Amen Scott clues and or travels throughout the

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United States in Canada training pro -life advocates to persuasively defend their views in the public square Scott has appeared on nationally syndicated

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Christian programs such as dr James Dobson's focus on the family the Albert Moller radio program Lee Strobel's faith under fire

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Hank anagraphs the Bible answer man D James Kennedy's truths that transform Richard lands for faith and family

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Tim Wildman's American family radio Kirby Anderson's point of view Todd Wilkins issues, etc

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Todd Friel's way of the master and wretched radio Billy Graham's our decision to Moody radios primetime America with David Wheatley There's quite a list, isn't it?

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And it just goes on He has participated in numerous secular talk show appearances on k -a -b -c out of Los Angeles The Leslie Promal show listened to broadly in the

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Edmonton area and Radio America's nationally syndicated program the Grignap experience Nationally Scott has participated in numerous debates at the collegiate level

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His debate opponents have included Nadine Strossen president of the ACLU from 1991 to 2008

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Catherine Colbert an attorney that has argued for abortion rights in the United States Supreme Court case and Kathy near president

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Planned Parenthood of California Scott has debated or lectured to student groups at over 80 colleges and universities

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Including Stanford USC UCLA Johns Hopkins Loyola Marymount Law School, West Virginia Medical School MIT US Air Force Academy Caltech UC Berkeley and the

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University of North Carolina each year thousands of students at Protestant and Catholic high schools are trained by Scott to make a persuasive case for life as part of The worldview training prior to college he provided the same training to students at summit ministries and focus on the family

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Institute Scott is the author of the case for life and stand for life released in December 2012

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Scott has also published articles on the pro -life apologetics in the Christian Research Journal clear thinking focus on the family citizen and the conservative theological journey a journal

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He is a graduate of UCLA with honors and holds a master's degree in Christian apologetics from Biola University He has four children and lives in Atlanta, Georgia with his wife

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Stephanie who also has joined us here tonight She's sitting right here in the front. So say hi to her.

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I first heard Scott on a stand to reason SDR podcast with Greg Kochel back in the 1990s and I though I was and I wrote this in the little booklet that you got

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All the way through high school I've been a pro -life as long as I can remember but all the way through high school I engaged people on the pro -life issue argued with people who were advocating for abortion other students and teachers, etc

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While in high school But never felt that I was really able to clearly articulate a pro -life point of view being a brand new

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Christian and not well equipped In either apologetics or philosophy or moral reasoning or anything like that I was able to basically take a stand for life

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But never really clearly articulate why it is that we are pro -life and how to defend against common abortion arguments

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Then in the late 1990s when I first was exposed to stand to reason I Heard Scott Klusendorf on the radio with Greg Kochel How many of you know who

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Greg Kochel is with stand to reason? Yep, because we've taken our youth through the tactics and defending the faith that Greg Kochel produces with STR I heard

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Scott on the Greg on Greg Kochel's podcast and it was a one -hour radio segment and I thought to myself

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Where has this been all of my life? Why did I not hear this? Why has this not been made clearer for me?

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And from that point forward Scott doesn't know it but I have stalked him. I've stalked him on Facebook I have stalked his ministry.

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I watched him at STR I got the making abortion unthinkable video curriculum that they produced with STR I've watched his ministry.

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I'm subscribed to his newsletter. I've watched his debates with Nadine Strassen I have seen his presentations.

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I've listened to him anytime. I see that he's on a radio broadcast I'll always listen to it because being refined well in this area of Christian apologetics is essential in today's age to make the case for life, so I Contacted Scott about a year before he moved into the building and I said when we move into the building

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I was friends with him On Facebook. I said we're having you up to do a conference The pro -life issue and he said just tell me when so when we got ready to move in I contacted him.

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I said it's when so here it is and the date and I've known we've known about this for about 18 months so I've been

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Looking forward to this with great anticipation Please welcome Scott Klusendorf. Thank you pastor

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Jim Well today I got to return the favor stalking pastor Jim because I was able to come to his house crash in on the lunch and eat some unbelievable chowder that was made

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For us on our arrival and I got to tell you not only that I borrowed or stole their car

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Which we are using while we're here. So I have paid back my stalking debt How many of you have ever been in an argument?

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You were winning the Lord knew you were winning every rational mind in the universe knew you were winning and the person you were

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Conversing with changed the subject those of you that are married. I expect to see a lot of hands go up right now

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Can I how many come on now? All right now how many of you when you were losing the argument you changed the subject can

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I see your hands Ma 'am, you are the honest person in the room Your neighborhood in heaven will be great.

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All right we're going to talk tonight and tomorrow about a topic where people want to change the topic and Let me tell you in a sentence what the biggest problem is with abortion in the

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United States Nobody talks about abortion. They talk about everything else They don't keep the main thing the main thing and what

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I want to do tonight By the way, some of you are thinking to yourselves. How am I going to keep up with this guy?

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Am I going to have to take notes faster than broke people at a Dave Ramsey seminar to keep up with him this whole weekend?

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And the answer is you're not You don't know it because I haven't told you but we're going to provide for you complete

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Exhaustive notes on everything. I'm going to cover for today and tomorrow But we're not going to give you the website of where those notes are found

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Until the end of the day tomorrow for those of you that in the weakness of the flesh might be tempted

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To sleep in tomorrow morning thinking I'll just read the notes Do not do that.

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You will lose your salvation and I'm a Calvinist. Okay, so just be aware of that Let me give you your job description in the culture we are in today

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You are to be an apologist You are to keep the main thing the main thing in a culture where people want to change the subject

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Your job on abortion is to keep the main thing the main thing and by the time we're done here

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You're gonna know how to do that And it's not as hard as you think and I want to begin by giving you the three most important words for a pro -life

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Apologist an apologist is someone who gives a defense for what they believe. That's what an apologist is

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It's not someone who runs around and says I'm sorry all the time It's someone who makes the defense for what they believe here are the three most

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Important words if you're going to be an apologist word number one

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Syllogism somebody got whoa, wait a minute. I just loaded up on carbs and you're throwing philosophy at me

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Bear with me you use syllogisms all the time premise premise conclusion

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Socrates is a man all men are mortal Therefore Socrates is mortal for those of you students that are here.

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You have had syllogisms used against you dad Can I borrow the car keys

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Friday night? No son, you may not why not? Well, we made a deal that driving privileges were predicated upon you having good grades you do not have good grades

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Therefore you will not drive. That's a syllogism a most unfortunate one for some of you, but a syllogism

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Pro -lifers have a syllogism. We're going to look at in just a moment word number two

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Syllogism Anybody want to guess what the third words gonna be You are all prophets yes syllogism

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Syllogism syllogism Syllogism and I'm about to give you that pro -life syllogism and tell you why it's key.

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So here it is Here's the pro -life syllogism premise number one or if you want to abbreviate p1 it is wrong to Intentionally kill an innocent human being it is wrong to Intentionally kill an innocent human being premise to abortion

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Intentionally kills an innocent human being abortion Intentionally kills an innocent human being conclusion

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Therefore abortions wrong. It's wrong to intentionally kill innocent human beings abortion does that therefore it's wrong now

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Why is it so important that we as pro -life? Apologists stick to that syllogism like glue not only normal glue gorilla glue why

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Because we're among people who will constantly change the subject Let me give you an example my favorite philosopher comedian

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Roseanne Barr said the following You know who I can't stand

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It's them people who are anti -abortion. I hate them They're nothing but a bunch of perverted old men who wants you to keep spitting out kids so they can molest them end quotes

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Okay, Roseanne You're right The entire pro -life movement is nothing but a bunch of perverted old men including the women amongst us

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How does it follow? that a the unborn aren't human or Be it's okay to Intentionally kill them.

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Do you see the problem with what Roseanne said? She did nothing to refute our syllogism.

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She changed the subject to attack personally people She didn't like that's what

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I'm talking about and your ability to stick to this syllogism will make or break you as a pro -life apologist if you forget this syllogism you will chase a million different rabbit trails

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People will throw everything under the Sun at you when the topic is abortion and they won't keep the main thing the main thing

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That's on you to do and your ability to direct them back to that syllogism Which we will spend the next couple of days

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Helping you do is what's going to bring clarity to them and I have another thing to say this seminar is not about giving you tools of thought where you're going to become like a

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Western gunfighter in the old Western movies where you can simply gun down anybody in the street that challenges you that's not how

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Christian apologetics works There was a popular movie a while ago Where you see a student stand up and give a presentation in a college classroom a secular

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University classroom and he defends the Christian worldview and the whole class comes over to his side of the view

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I'm here to tell you that is not the real world It's not the world we live in. You know, what's your job is is a pro -life apologist

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It's not to close the sale Don't raise your hands, but let me ask you a question on evangelism

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How many people have you won to the Lord don't raise your hand? How many?

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The same as I have zero Because it's God who saves people he uses his

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Ambassadors to convey truth, but it's only the Holy Spirit that can make that truth alive and bring that person from darkness to light

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When it comes to the pro -life issue your job is not to close the deal on the spot the great arguer

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William Rusher the guy who wrote the argument how to win arguments more often than not Said in his book that is a standard teaching text on winning arguments that arguments are never

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Almost never won on the spot. You know where they're won To three weeks later when the person you were conversing with admits to themselves in the privacy of maybe the drive -thru at McDonald's or maybe

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Taco Bell that you were right that Is when the argument is won. I mean those of you that are married

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Come on when you have a dispute with your spouse and they are right and you are wrong Do you slap yourself on the knee and say honey?

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I'm so glad that Jesus put you in my life to straighten out my twisted thinking. Is that what you do immediately? That's not what you do immediately.

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What you do is you have to process this There's a couple of hours or days of uncomfortableness while you work it through and then things get along, right?

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This is the world we're in Your job is my friend Greg Coco points out is to put a pebble in their shoe

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Ever had a pebble in your shoe when you're out hiking it wears on you and wears on you

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Until you stop and deal with it And so what we're going to do tonight is look at the three questions that will help you make a case for life on hostile turf

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Help you put a pebble in their shoe that gives them something to think about It's not about having all the right answers.

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It's about making a case that gives them something to think about That's what we're going to look at today.

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Now. Why does this matter politically for where we are right now as a nation? I'll tell you why as You have noticed the abortion issue is heating up.

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It's heating up big time. In fact You've got people yelling at each other all kinds of things in my state of Georgia The movie industry which has moved there in mass to avoid paying taxes in California By the way,

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Hollywood is no longer in California It is actually now in southern states because they can make movies there and not pay taxes

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But then when the conservative governor's signed pro -life bills the movie industry gets all mad

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And so in my neck of the woods the movie industry said to Brian Kemp our governor If you sign that heartbeat bill restricting abortion

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We're going to leave and not do movies here and the governor simply said hey given a choice between Movies being made here or the kids.

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We're gonna go with the kids you do your own thing Now nobody has left Georgia by the way making movies These are all just empty threats when you push back.

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They actually back off. But the point is it's heating up why? for this reason we are in a

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House divided moment right now unlike anything we've seen for a hundred and sixty years Because the federal courts

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Appear to be signaling that they're going to return the abortion issue in some measure to the states

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Act like it was before Roe v. Wade What happened in Roe v. Wade is the federal courts took the issue away from the legislative and executive branches of government and said we alone

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Will deal with abortion now that the courts seem to be pushing it back toward the individual states

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This is what's happening People on the other side of the issue are panicking that in some states

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Abortion rights are going to get pulled back We are in a house divided moment because for the first time we're now arguing about who counts as one of us

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Does it include the unborn and as a result? That's why you feel this tension

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Slavery was a contentious issue and there was no way it wasn't going to be that's why the abortion issue hasn't gone away

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It's because it's a question about who counts as one of us and every one of us has to be equipped to deal with that So here are the three questions that will help you engage that debate question number one.

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What is the unborn? We'll look at why that's so essential. That'll be tonight's topic in particular question two

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What makes us valuable as human beings? What gives us our value and number three?

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What's the point which will be principally what we pick up tomorrow, but we'll touch on it tonight. What is the unborn?

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What makes us valuable What's the point? Those are the three questions that will help you put those pebbles in the shoes of people

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You're engaging if you're clear on those three questions, you're equipped to engage you're ready to be an ambassador

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For the Lord on the pro -life issue. So let's start with that first issue. What is the unborn?

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I want you if you will to imagine this scenario You are if you're a student 15 years into the future for those of you that are adults.

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You can already imagine the scenario I'm about to give you You're 15 years in the future if you're a student or your current if you're an adult

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You're cleaning up after supper one night and as my friend Greg Cockel says a five -year -old your son comes in behind you while you're scrubbing up after kitchen and you're washing those dishes your backs turn to him and That little five -year -old says to you daddy or mommy

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Can I kill this? For any of you that are thinking all those cute little boys would never ask such a question

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Let me enlighten you My dear wife and I we just celebrated 34 years anniversary last week and we have a son 29

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Son 28 son 23 daughter 19. I have heard the question daddy

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Can I kill this usually with his hands around his brother's throat when he's asking the question, right? You would never in a billion years say sure son have at it

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So you answered that predicate question? What does he got? You know what we just did

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We just solved the abortion issue We can all go home. No How do we solve the abortion issue?

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Can we kill the unborn? You know what your answer should be? Yes Yes we can kill the unborn if If what if the unborn are not human

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But you gotta answer the question What is the unborn before you answer the question?

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Can I kill the unborn and it's that question our culture wants to ignore?

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Do you have a I'm gonna pick on you for a moment. Do you have a brother? What's his name? What's your name?

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Wesley Wesley Jeff have you stopped beating your brother Wesley yet? He doesn't know would you extend your hand and pray for him right now?

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No Have you? You have what led to that improvement of behavior?

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Told you not to and that was enough for you to stop. Okay, so you're a good son, by the way Thank you for letting me pick on you.

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I reward everyone that I pick on So I have a copy here of my book stand for life that I have signed for you

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And this is yours. So there you go. Thank you. Who else would like to get picked on right now tonight? Yeah, I thought so, but that's not on the table.

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So Now was my question fair yes or no What was unfair about it?

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What did I assume that he beats his brother? How much evidence did

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I give you that he beats his brother? None. I just assumed it. I gave no evidence.

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No case nothing I just assumed it and this is what people do with the unborn all the time

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They simply assume the unborn aren't human. They don't argue for it

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This is a fallacy known as begging the question where you assume what you're trying to prove

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So, let me give you some examples of this the president of the United States six years ago the previous president on The anniversary of Roe vs.

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Wade the Supreme Court case that legalized abortion in this country through all of pregnancy on the anniversary of that decision

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The president of the United States said the following Today is a day that all

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Americans should celebrate. Oh, why is that? Mr. President? Listen to his words quote

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Because this is a nation where everyone gets to pursue their own dreams and quote

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Whoa Mr. President does quote everyone include the unborn?

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He simply assumed they weren't human. He didn't argue for it. He just assumed it a

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Century and a half ago in a jaw -dropping passage from the adventures of Huckleberry Finn, which some of you have read

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You may recall a passage where Huck Finn has been out on one of his adventures And he happens on the property of aunt

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Sally and aunt Sally sees him coming down the road and she rushes out to meet Him, she's a little mixed up.

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She thinks it's Tom Sawyer, but it's actually Huck Finn She rushes out to meet him and when she gets there, she throws her arms around and says, where have you been?

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My boy, where have you been? We've been waiting for you. What's up with this? Why what is taking you so long and Huck makes up a story?

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he says well ma 'am, we were on a steamboat and it blew a cylinder head and Sally says was anybody hurt

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No, ma 'am. It killed a Negro, but nobody got hurt Well, that's good said aunt

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Sally because sometimes people do get hurt You tell me what was just assumed about the black man that he wasn't one of us.

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It wasn't argued for It was simply assumed This is what we're up against So, how do we deal with people who simply assume the unborn are not human?

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Would anybody you know talk about trusting people to make their own personal decisions if we were talking about killing two -year -olds

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How about five -year -olds? No Why do they do that with the unborn because they assume the unborn are not human

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Here is the tactic we're gonna use to flush that assumption out into the open It's a little tactic called trot out the toddler and let me tell you how it works

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We don't use trot out the toddler to compare the toddler to the unborn and say well if the toddler is human

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So is the unborn? No, no. No, that's not what we do We use trot out the toddler to show that the real issue is not trusting women.

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It's not choice. It's not privacy It's not economic hardship. It's not bodily rights.

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It's none of those things The real issue is what is the unborn and we use trot out the toddler to clarify that so let's try one

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Let's say somebody comes to you and or I'll use myself as an example. Somebody comes to me and says well

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Why don't you trust women to make their own personal decisions? I don't get defensive The first thing that goes through my mind is would this work is a good argument for killing a toddler if the answers

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No, the person I'm conversing with is assuming the unborn are not human like that toddler

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So the first words out of my mouth I put my hand at about knee level and I say pretend I have a two -year -old in front of me

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His parents want the choice to rough him up in the privacy of the bedroom

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And they think we should trust them to make their own personal decisions. Should we let them do it?

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Well, no, you can't do that Why not? Well because he's a human being ah

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And you should say that musically now you'll do it better than me because when I sing things die, but you get the idea

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Ah, ah what if the unborn are human like that toddler?

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Should we kill them in the name of privacy any more than we'd kill a toddler for that reason? Oh, but that's different.

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The unborn aren't human. The toddler is ah, you may be right about that You could be right about that, but you're gonna have to argue for it.

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You can't just assume it You've got to answer the question. What is the unborn before you answer the question?

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Can we kill them? So let's try one together. You're in a conversation with a neighbor. The neighbor says to you, you know,

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I Just don't get you pro -lifers. You would take a poor woman who can't afford another child

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She's already got ten kids and you're gonna force her to bring another child

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Into this world that she can't afford to feed stop right there. What was just assumed about the unborn?

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Listen to her language force this woman to bring another child into this world

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We think she already has a child right? The question is what's she going to do with him? So trot out your toddler.

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I have a two -year -old in front of me His parents can't afford to feed him. In fact, they'd like to balance the checkbook at the end of the month by Eliminating the toddler should they be allowed to do it?

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What's the answer gonna be? No, you can't do that your reply Not ah, you're too anxious some of you

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Too anxious. I get it Why not? Well because he's a human being

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Ah You do sound better than me at that All what?

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Well, if the unborn are human like that toddler We shouldn't kill them in the name of economic hardship any more than we'd kill the toddler for that reason

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Oh, but that's different the unborn aren't human. The toddler is you could be right about that It's possible.

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I'm wrong about the unborn being human, but you can't just assume

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That the unborn aren't human you gotta argue for it now, let me ask you a question

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Have I even argued for the pro -life you yet? No All I've done is clarify the issue.

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The issue is not choice. The issue is not privacy The issue is not trusting women. It's not economic hardship.

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Nobody kills two -year -olds to feed five -year -olds It's not about child abuse and unwantedness.

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Nobody kills a two -year -old so that he's not unwanted at age 10 They only kill a human fetus for that reason.

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Why? Because they assume the unborn are not human and we're not going to let them get away with that Trot out your toddler not to argue your case

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But to make the debate point clear keep the main thing the main thing the main thing is the status of the unborn

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That's it. That's it What is the unborn I'll give you an answer now

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I'm gonna shock a few of you. I'm not going to go to the Bible to answer that question and Neither should you?

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We're not asking how we value the unborn yet there. We do need Scripture We're simply asking what kind of thing is this if you go home tonight?

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And you see a four -legged critter running across your block wall and it's late at night You can't see you don't go to Scripture to find out what that thing is.

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You consult biology We're gonna do the same thing we're going to consult the science of embryology

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What does the science of embryology? Say now in the notes that you're going to get when you all come back tomorrow and you're with us till the end of the day

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To secure your salvation when we give you those notes, you will get the footnote references for the embryology textbooks

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I'm summarizing right now. What does the science of embryology say? About each of us from the very beginning.

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Here's what it says from the earliest stages of development from the one -cell stage you were a distinct living and whole human being

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You were distinct in that you were not part of the mother's body You had your own DNA often you had your own blood type half the time a different gender

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You were living because we know dead things don't grow and You were a whole human being because even if you were small and immature

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The kind of thing you were was not in question. You were a distinct living whole human being

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That's the science of embryology Now there are people who are going to object at this point as you can imagine they're going to bring up some objections

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So let me run you through a few of the popular ones and then we'll we'll continue here

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The first one you're gonna get is this well What about twinning? Why that embryo can split into two up to 21 days after fertilization that embryo can split into two embryos

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How can you say there's a distinct whole human being from the very beginning when it can split into two?

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Question How does it follow? that because a living entity splits

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That it wasn't a whole living entity prior to the split How many of you have ever

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Sliced a flatworm in half. Can I see your hands? The mass murderers are identifying themselves.

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Okay Question what did you get when you sliced that flatworm in half pastor

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Jim? Two worms did it follow there was no worm prior to the split The fact that a living in entity may split doesn't mean it wasn't a whole living entity prior to the split

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By the way, if the fact that a twin can be formed from the embryo meaning means it's not a full human being because twinning is essentially cloning if Twinning means that we know aren't human and a twin can be formed from any of us

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Which by the way with cloning technology is now going to be soon upon us we're going to be able to take one of your

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Cells one of your somatic cells strip the DNA out of it and slap donor

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DNA inside it and wallah We got ourselves a new clone of you Does it follow that because a twin can be formed with you through a cloning process that you're not a whole living human being right?

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Now, of course not. This is a silly argument yet. You will get it. Here's another one. You'll get

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Women don't grieve Miscarriages the way they grieve the deaths of older children and infants who are already born now

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Let me just stop for a moment any of you that have suffered through miscarriage

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I I'm guessing you would beg to differ and you would rightly point out you have no idea

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When the critic brings this up, but I'm gonna for the sake of argument just bracket that for a moment

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How do my feelings about something Change what it is

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Suppose you get a text message That informs you that a close relative has just died

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Do you feel worse about that than hearing that 500 kids died today in India for malnutrition?

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Of course you do Does it follow that those children in India are less human and valuable than your relative

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Simply because you feel worse about your relative dying than those kids in India Your feelings about something don't change what it is

32:45

Here's another objection to the scientific case. They'll throw out at you Why nature itself is the biggest abortionist in the planet.

32:53

Maybe God is in fact Christian Your God is the biggest abortionist in the universe because we know that up to a third of all pregnancies that are conceived

33:08

Spontaneously abort within the first three to four weeks Therefore if nature is spontaneously triggering miscarriages, why are you guys all worried about abortion?

33:22

Question How does it follow that because nature Spontaneously triggers a miscarriage

33:32

That a the embryos in question are not human or B. We may intentionally kill them

33:40

Earthquakes happen in third -world countries Does that justify mass murder just because lots of people get killed by nature?

33:47

This is again a very vacuous argument, but you will hear it and it does not refute your science

33:54

It does not refute your syllogism yet. People will bring it up by the way Just a little side note on this.

34:00

This is an example of what we call the is -ought fallacy People argue that because something is the case it ought to be the case that doesn't follow

34:10

That doesn't follow at all. The fact nature does something doesn't give us a permission slip to do it as well

34:17

This is fallacious thinking another objection. You'll get to the pro -life view Which we will talk about in more detail tomorrow

34:25

Goes like this You're in a burning research lab the buildings in Inferno in This corner over here is a six -year -old girl in this corner over here

34:39

Is a thousand embryos frozen on ice? the buildings in Inferno You only have time to save either the embryos or the six -year -old girl

34:53

Who are you gonna save? Where are we all going six -year -old see there goes your whole case

35:06

Now tomorrow I'm going to deal with that objection in Detail, so I'm gonna leave you hanging on it tonight to go home tonight and be kept awake all night long

35:17

Trying to figure out how we work ourselves out of that one So that's gonna be what happens, but these are common objections to the pro -life view now

35:26

There is one objection scientifically that I get and it goes like this

35:32

You talk to a person about the pro -life issue You explain that the unborn are distinct living and whole human beings and they say to you.

35:39

Okay, I'm hearing you I get it. You you believe this I hear your reasons. I hear your science and it makes sense to me

35:47

But my intuitions don't just identify with that embryo being one of us

35:53

I mean, I don't know if you've seen a picture of an early embryo It's not even visible to the naked eye. You have to see it under a microscope and The person says to you wait a minute.

36:02

I've seen these early embryos. They don't look like babies They're not cute like my cousin

36:08

Sophia. They're not, you know, nice to cuddle. They're just they look like a tiny ball of cells and My intuitions don't view that as one of us

36:18

Now I kind of get this Can we at least admit that this one kind of makes some sense to people if you think about it?

36:26

But sometimes our intuitions are wrong Now, let me explain what

36:32

I mean by intuitions intuitions are not hunches a lot of people think they are what we mean philosophically is something you're justified believing that you naturally don't have to defend but in this case the intuition is mistaken and Here's an example that will illustrate this how many of you have ever seen a

36:57

Polaroid camera from the mid 1960s have any of you seen a picture or seen one of those?

37:04

Okay They were not pleasant to look look at but for those of you in the room that are under the age of 35

37:10

Let's say you need to know there was a time. We did not take pictures with our phones

37:15

We had these things called cameras. They had shutters on them They would let light in they would record the image on the film and the way it would work for you

37:25

Youngsters that are oblivious to all this you would wait till you shot 36 exposures

37:31

You would take your film to the neighborhood supermarket. By the way film was expensive

37:36

We did not take pictures of our food back then You would take the pictures to the neighborhood photo mat.

37:47

How many of you remember photo mat? Yeah That little shack on the fork far corner of the supermarket parking lot you drop your pictures off you wait a month and a half for them to come back and About a third of them are overexposed, right?

38:02

That's that's how it was back then Well, the Polaroid camera allowed you to shoot a picture It would spit out the piece of paper right there

38:10

You didn't have to wait a month and a half to get it back. It was right there You'd pull it out of the camera.

38:15

You'd shake it Some of you're doing the muscle memory on me and your picture emerged 90 minutes to two minutes or 90 seconds to two minutes later

38:23

So pretend it's 1970 we've gone back in time You have a

38:28

Polaroid camera you shoot a picture of a black Jaguar Leaping across the trail in front of us

38:37

Now if you've read your National Geographic, you know, black Jaguars are almost never filmed in the wild You got it.

38:45

You snap that picture the things in midair It's a beautiful pic National Geographic is gonna set you up for life with the amount of money

38:53

They're gonna pay you for that picture And while you're breathlessly waiting for the picture to emerge in front of you

38:58

I come up and rip the camera out of your hands yank the paper out of it and tear it up Are you upset?

39:06

Yeah, you're really upset What if I said what's the big deal I Didn't see a

39:13

Jaguar on that paper. All I saw was a white paper with a brown smudge on it

39:20

Will that satisfy you? You'll look at me with eyes on fire and say you're crazy man.

39:26

The Jaguar in the picture was already there We just couldn't see him

39:33

Because he was still developing From the one cell stage you were already there

39:39

We just couldn't see you because you were still developing. That's the science of embryology

39:46

But there's another reason why people don't get this men and women Their ignorance is sustained by denial

39:55

They have reduced all moral questions to matters of personal preferences

40:00

Have you seen that bumper sticker don't like abortion don't have one That's what we're talking about moral truths on an issue like abortion have all been reduced to you like chocolate

40:10

I like vanilla who are we to judge each other? How do we reach those people with the truth of what's going on on an issue like abortion answer?

40:20

We need to reawaken their moral intuitions There have been pro -lifers who say and they're right we need to capture the language in this debate

40:29

That's true. As far as it goes. We also need to capture the ground that we fight on We need better ground to fight on and one of the ways we get better ground to fight on is to break through People's denial about what abortion really is.

40:44

If you saw the movie Saving Private Ryan, can I see your hands? Oh Wow Passion of the

40:52

Christ Schindler's List Hacksaw Ridge Okay, most of you almost all of you in this room paid money to go watch gruesome imagery on the screen

41:06

You paid money to go do that. Why for the same reason I did

41:12

Because those films I just mentioned Conveyed truths words alone are powerless to convey

41:18

There is no way to put in language What happened to the first wave of Army Rangers at Normandy on D -Day?

41:27

Until you get a sense of it watching the first 35 40 minutes of Saving Private Ryan Then you really get a sense of what happened the passion of our

41:36

Christ. We understand the theology But our visceral connection with his passion increases when you see it

41:44

Hacksaw Ridge you understand what Desmond Doss went through Suffering at the hands of the very men he would later save on Hacksaw Ridge in a gruesome battle there the imagery conveyed truths words alone could never

42:01

Convey and the abortion issue is no different. In fact You will be hard -pressed to find any social reform movement in the last 150 years that didn't use

42:15

Gruesome imagery to confront a culture with truths the culture wanted to ignore

42:22

Abraham Lincoln shortly after the Emancipation Proclamation Was confronted by Frederick Douglass the black abolitionist and Frederick Douglass said to the president.

42:37

Mr. President. I paraphrase here. Mr. President your arguments on behalf of the slaves

42:43

Humanity are stellar We appreciate that They're philosophically robust They're theologically robust But mr.

42:54

President they're falling on deaf ears and here's why What the nation needs right now is to have its moral conscience

43:03

Arrested and it's not going to happen by merely talking about this

43:08

We have to dramatize this fight and guess what started happening not long after that imagery surfaced very crude early black -and -white photographs

43:20

And you've seen them that african -american man with the scar going all the way down his back where he'd been whipped

43:25

Images like that began to change the narrative of the Civil War why we were fighting it and what was truly at stake

43:33

The imagery conveyed truths that many people wanted to ignore at the turn of the 1900s

43:41

Christian missionaries in the Congo led by Alice Harris and her husband John were able to change an

43:51

Excruciating injustice going on in that nation. What was happening is insurgents that were paid by King Leopold the second of Belgium were going into the

44:00

Congo and rounding up children in villages and telling the kids if you don't gather for us the right levels the requisite levels of Ivory and rubber we're gonna cut your hands off and if you do it and if you still don't get it done, right?

44:15

we're gonna cut your feet off and There's heartbreaking images that you can google of children whose arms had been severed by King Leopold's insurgents including one picture of a father sitting on the porch with his hand like this next to his little girl with her severed arm right next to him

44:34

Christian missionaries smuggled those pictures out of the Congo And within seven years

44:40

King Leopold was out of business in the Congo in other words The images conveyed truths that words were powerless to explain and the abortion issue is no different in just a moment

44:52

I'm gonna roll for you a 55 second clip and This clip viewing is completely optional.

45:00

You do not need to watch it. If you do watch it Let me tell you exactly what you'll see You will see a first second and third trimester fetus that has been aborted you will not see an abortion procedure

45:13

But you will see the aftermath and I want to warn you up front. It's disturbing viewing

45:18

Secondly, if you don't want to watch you don't even have to leave the room because we've taken the narration out of the clip

45:24

You will not hear anything described that's on the screen and I will not describe what's on the screen. There's only instrumental music

45:31

That's all that you'll hear Thirdly and please hear me on this We're not here tonight and it's possible

45:38

There are some people here tonight Who have experienced abortion and we're not here tonight to beat you up because we are all committed to the gospel of Jesus Christ And that gospel is you know

45:52

Sends a message loud and clear about every one of us That gospel does not pretend sin doesn't matter.

46:01

It doesn't pretend all sins are equal But what it does do is tell the truth about our condition before the bar of God's justice

46:11

God creates a good world we are there to give him glory we rebel against him and God who would have been just to destroy every last one of us

46:24

Sends Jesus to stand as our substitute in our place

46:29

Condemned bearing the judgment you and I deserve and Jesus absorbs every last bit of the wrath of God that we deserve and Then to prove that his sacrifice was sufficient

46:46

God raises him from the dead three days later and it keeps going because those who trust in Jesus for their salvation

46:55

God the Father isn't your judge anymore He's your heavenly father and you get adopted into his family as a dearly loved child

47:03

That's the gospel and if you're here tonight and you've had an experience with abortion or you're watching on the live feed and you've had an experience with Abortion your answer is not an excuse

47:14

Your answer is an exchange the righteousness of God given to you in virtue of Jesus in Place of your sin that's the great news of the gospel and I want us to keep that in mind as we take a minute to watch this clip and again

47:30

If you want to look away you feel the freedom to look away and then we'll go ahead after the clip and we'll quickly round up and I'll have a few more things to say and we'll we'll go to the

47:40

Q &A. So at this point we'll go ahead and roll this clip in 1955 an

48:46

African -american boy 14 years of age journeyed from Chicago to visit his cousin in the town of Money, Mississippi He took the train down there.

48:54

He gets off the train in the middle of that summer of 1955 and when his cousin greets him at the station

49:01

One of the first things he does is start bragging about his two white girlfriends back home in Chicago, you know 14 year old boys

49:07

They're prone for that The cousin and the cousin's friend said we don't believe you.

49:13

We don't even speak to white girls down here Let alone date them and when Emmett persisted in saying he had two white girlfriends

49:21

They said we dare you to talk to a white girl down here that afternoon Emmett the cousin

49:30

Group of boys from Money, Mississippi go into Brian's grocery store in downtown Money, Mississippi And as recorded in the video series eyes on the prize

49:38

Emmett walks up to the counter Looks at the 21 year old white clerk behind the counter who was married and he says to her as he purchases his piece of gum

49:48

Thanks, babe, and he flashes her a big smile flirtatious, but innocent smile and we think no big deal

49:55

Big deal in 1955 if you were black and you did that Two nights later that boy is taken at gunpoint from his uncle's home where he was spending the summer

50:06

The woman's husband and another man drive him outside Money, Mississippi They savagely beat him break every bone in his upper torso and after several hours of torturing him

50:17

They finish him with a shot to the head and throw his corpse into the river The local sheriff discovers the body presumably three to four days later.

50:25

He cannot believe the sight of this kid He takes what is left of Emmett and puts him in a wooden box.

50:31

Not even a coffin just a wooden box And he puts a note on there to Mamie Till Emmett's mother that reads don't open this you won't like what you see

50:40

And when Mamie Till gets the body Back in Chicago She shocked the world with an announcement that there would be a public funeral for her son and it would be an open casket funeral

50:53

Newspaper press went ballistic. You can't do this. You'll upset people you'll offend people Do you understand the condition your boy is in and she said

51:01

I know people will be upset but I want the whole world to see what they did to my boy and That image of Emmett Till which you can google when you go home tonight

51:14

That image that gruesome image be warned Launched the civil rights movement in this country

51:21

Three months later Rosa Parks is told to go to the back of the bus because she's black What gave her the courage to stand her ground?

51:28

She told us in her memoirs I couldn't get the picture of that boy out of my head. What boy

51:33

Emmett? Why do we show images like this? Not to beat people up emotionally

51:40

But because I'm convinced men and women if pro -life Christians don't lovingly but truthfully

51:46

Open the casket on abortion This nation will continue to tolerate injustice.

51:52

It never has to look at but as Christians we have another duty We not only open the casket on abortion

51:59

We open the truth of God's Word that sinners can be Reconciled to their Creator because Jesus stood in their place condemned and bore the judgment they deserve

52:08

We give them hope at the same time. We give truth That's what a persuasive gospel centered pro -life apologetic looks like Second question we need to look at and I'll rapidly move through these last two what makes

52:26

Humans valuable we've answered the question. What is the unborn? Our next question to answer in a hostile culture is what makes us valuable now in just a minute

52:34

I want you to look around the room and stare at some people but not yet So all of you students that are here if you've noticed someone that's really cute.

52:42

Maybe you've thought all along I really like that person and I'd like to make eye contact with them This will be your

52:47

God sanctified moment right here in the sanctuary of this church to make eye contact

52:53

And by the way, don't laugh. I met my wife at church in precisely this kind of situation

52:59

So this can work for you. All right single people 34 years. So get ready ready

53:05

One two three, go ahead. Give some stares to people Dudes, if you're looking at me, you're looking at the wrong place.

53:12

Okay, go ahead. Look around the room stare All right question what makes us equal

53:21

Are we all physically equal Not a chance Two years ago at age 57

53:29

I did something insane I went back to the high school where I played basketball and played on the alumni team against the current student basketball team

53:38

Don't laugh we beat them by 24 points Yeah, it's called old man smarts

53:43

You plug the middle make them take terrible shots slow the pace to molasses Oh, and it helps that we had recent grads with fresh legs.

53:50

I got one shot off in that game only one a 3 -pointer I drained it nothing but net had a rebound and two assists and you're thinking that's nothing man

53:59

I could do that my sleep But when you're 57 your single objective for that basketball game is to avoid hospitalization, right?

54:06

So the fact that that worked out for me was quite nice now if I had to go one -on -one against a bunch of you

54:12

I'm looking at right now. I'd be in deep doo -doo because don't just say doo -doo from the pulpit. No, that's that Well, that's bad.

54:20

Okay You'd be in deep trouble Edit tape at that point

54:29

You'd be in deep trouble I'd be in deep trouble I should say because I don't have the speed and agility to keep up with you anymore

54:35

But men and women if Planned Parenthood is right that we can intentionally kill a human fetus

54:42

Because it's not developed The way we are if they're right that your development is what gives you your value and you have more of it than me

54:53

You have a greater right to life than me and human equality is out the window Are we all equally self -aware right now?

55:00

How many of you had coffee tonight? Not decaf the real thing.

55:06

Can I see your hands? All right, you're doing real well right now You're flying on all cylinders the synapses are going if you had your coffee at 6 a .m.

55:15

This morning You're probably this side of comatose right now, right? If self -awareness is what gives us our value if we can kill the fetus because it's not yet self -aware if Peter Singer is right that we can kill the newborn and We can kill the unborn because neither is self -aware.

55:34

He's right that neither is self -aware. He's correct about that Neither sees themselves existing over time but if he's right that that means we can kill the unborn and the newborn because they don't see themselves existing over time because they're not

55:50

Self -aware and you're more self -aware than I am right now You have a greater right to life than me and human equality is out the window

55:57

There's one thing we share equally in this room only one. It's not physical. It doesn't come in degrees

56:04

It doesn't come and go One thing is you were staring at each other around the room that we share equally that is this we all have the same human nature

56:19

Now as Christians, we know that human nature bears the image of God. What's a human nature? Well, all living things have natures your pet goldfish has a goldfish nature your

56:31

Dog has a dog nature Cats I now believe have satanic natures.

56:37

You have a human nature your human nature determines the kind of thing you are my cat destroyed a leather jacket of mine and I do not have the votes in my house to push through cat adoption.

56:50

So I am stuck with that cat Therefore I will simply redefine its nature you have a human nature that determines the kind of thing you are and That human nature is something you either have or don't have

57:05

It's not a degreed property. If you don't have it. Guess what? You're now dead That's that's how it is

57:12

You either have it or you don't if you ground human equality in any other thing than our shared human nature

57:18

Human equality is out the window and boy in a culture that's obsessed with equality

57:23

I mean think about it our culture wants marriage equality. It wants income equality It wants social equality, but it can't tell us what makes us equal in the first place

57:32

We have an answer as Christians. We all have equal value. We are all Fundamentally equal because we all have the same human nature that bears the image of our maker

57:43

We've got an answer for equality The secular culture doesn't their answer that you're only valuable because you're self -aware results in savage inequality

57:52

Ours is a better answer. There's four differences Between you the embryo and You the adult and none of them are good reasons for saying we could kill you back then

58:04

But not now Stephen Schwartz suggested the acronym sled as a reminder of these four differences and When people bring up the fact that you differ from the embryo you once were when they say to you

58:18

Well that embryo is different than us. You know what your answer should be so So It's not enough to simply point out a difference your critics need to point out why that Difference matters such that we can say it would have been okay to kill you then but not now

58:36

So what are the differences between you the embryo and you the adult that's here today? There's a difference of size level of development

58:45

Environment meaning where you're at where you're located and degree of dependency again. Think of that acronym sled

58:51

SLED Size were you smaller as an embryo? Of course you were But as a matter of principle, how does body size determine value?

59:02

Men are generally larger than women do men deserve more rights than women simply because they're larger

59:08

Okay, if you're a guy doing this right now, we now know why you will never get married Body size doesn't equal value.

59:17

What about your level of development? Were you less developed as an embryo?

59:22

Of course you were what should your answer be to that? so How does body development determine my value?

59:31

Two year old girls do not have a developed reproductive system yet. Are they less human invaluable than the 21 year old young woman who does?

59:38

Students I have some bad news for you You are less developed than your parents you are less developed than your parents physically and Wait for it.

59:50

You're less developed than your parents Intellectually, which may come as a bit of a shock to a few of you, but you're not going to reach your intellectual peak until You're mid 40s

01:00:00

Does it follow your parents have a greater right to life than you simply because they're more developed This is by the way exactly the point

01:00:07

Abraham Lincoln made on the issue of slavery Lincoln's critics would look at that slave and they'd say he's different from us.

01:00:13

Mr. Lincoln and Lincoln's reply was so is he different from us in ways that justify enslaving him and Lincoln said the following I'll quote him quote you say man a is white

01:00:27

Man B is dark Oh, it is skin color then the fair -skinned man having the right to enslave the dark -skinned man

01:00:34

Take care by that rule. You're a slave to the first person you meet with skin fairer than your own

01:00:41

You say it's not skin color It's a matter of intellect the white man you allege has superior intellect to the dark man

01:00:48

Take care again by that rule. You're a slave to the first person you meet with an intellect superior to yours

01:00:54

You say it's not skin color. It's not intellect It's a matter of interest the white man having it in his interest to enslave the dark man

01:01:01

Take care again by that rule You're a slave to the first person you meet who can make it his interest to enslave you and quote

01:01:07

Do you see what Lincoln just did right there the very arguments used to disqualify the black man work real well for whites

01:01:15

And by the same token the arguments people used to disqualify the unborn apply to a whole lot of people outside the womb

01:01:23

Peter Singer's got a point Fetus is not self -aware Newborn is not self -aware.

01:01:29

You can kill both Now his conclusion is horrific, but at least he's intellectually

01:01:36

Credible in the sense that he's consistent Because he looks at Planned Parenthood and says you guys want to draw this arbitrary line at birth

01:01:44

And there's nothing meaningful that happens at birth. You're intellectually dishonest size level of development

01:01:51

Environment what about environment where you are has no bearing on who you are if you drove at least

01:02:00

Eight lap seven miles to come to this event tonight. Can I see your hands you drove at least seven miles 17 miles 27 miles

01:02:13

Okay, it's starting to get real now 37 miles Whoa, okay 47 miles 57 miles a

01:02:27

Hundred and seven miles a thousand seven miles I win now

01:02:36

If a journey of Let's say 57 miles that gentleman back there in the sound booth

01:02:43

Did not change you from one kind of thing to another How does a journey of seven inches down the birth canal suddenly transform you from non -human non -valuable thing?

01:02:52

We can kill to valuable human being we cannot and the answer is if you weren't already human and valuable

01:02:58

Changing your address doesn't get you there finally degree of dependency How does dependency on another human being mean that we can kill you

01:03:08

Our critics never answer that question How does it? Since when because I depend on someone they can slit my throat now.

01:03:17

I live in the town in noon in Georgia You've never heard of it But the movie industry is very big in Georgia right now because as I mentioned earlier all the

01:03:25

Hollywood lefties have left California they don't want to pay the taxes So they go to southern states where the taxes are less and they make their movies there now

01:03:32

Well not far from us is the major filming locations for the wildly popular television series

01:03:39

The Walking Dead Now for those of you that have not seen The Walking Dead do not go home tonight Pull it up on Netflix and say we're gonna have family viewing tonight watching

01:03:48

The Walking Dead. It's a zombie series It's very gruesome. So be warned.

01:03:53

All right, but The Walking Dead storyline goes like this The hero of the series is sheriff

01:03:59

Rick Grimes he's a sheriff in a county in in Georgia in the story and he and his buddy

01:04:06

Shane are in a gunfight with bad guys and Rick gets hit and he's in the hospital for a month in a coma and while he's in the hospital for a month in that coma the zombie apocalypse breaks out and Season one of The Walking Dead is

01:04:23

Rick waking up in the hospital all alone. Nobody stayed behind to care for him Somehow when the zombies came through the hospital they missed him and he wakes up and has to figure out what happened to the world

01:04:35

I once knew where's my wife? Where's my son? Where's the people? I once knew that's season one of The Walking Dead Let's flip that script

01:04:42

Suppose one doctor stayed behind to care for Rick Rick depends totally on him for survival

01:04:48

Could that doctor? Intentionally slit Rick's throat simply because Rick depends on him for survival size level of development

01:05:00

Environment and degree of dependency are not good reasons for saying we could kill you then but not now.

01:05:06

I End with this question What's the point? The point is simply this

01:05:15

You are to step up and Love your unborn neighbor and let me tell you the way you're gonna do that in this culture

01:05:23

You have to be equipped to defend him How many of you at Christmas or Thanksgiving?

01:05:29

Have people who attend your home? Holiday celebrations that are not believers family members or maybe others friends who are around your table

01:05:40

They're not believers, but they're they're sharing a holiday meal. How many of you that's true of?

01:05:45

Okay, that's true in our family I want you to pretend that you have an aunt Betty from Boston and Betty thinks your

01:05:53

Christianity is bunk She thinks your pro -life views are crazy and she comes to your house at Thanksgiving and she's eating her turkey and stuffing

01:06:03

She's trying to be cordial But finally she just can't take it anymore and she looks at you through the bites of turkey and stuffing and she says now

01:06:11

Why are you pro -life? Here's going to be your answer in One minute or less.

01:06:18

In fact pastor Jim is going to time me to make sure that I get this done in under a minute All right.

01:06:24

Here's what you're going to say ready go And Betty I'm pro -life because it's wrong to intentionally kill innocent human beings and The science of embryology says from the earliest stages of development

01:06:41

You were a distinct living and whole human being and you know what else aunt

01:06:47

Betty? There's no essential difference between that embryo you were and the adult you are today that would justify killing you back then differences of size

01:06:56

Level of development Environment and degree of dependency are not good reasons for saying we could kill you then but not now

01:07:03

Did I get that done in under a minute? Okay. Now quick question By the way,

01:07:08

I may be slow on the basketball court, but I can still get it done when I'm talking to aunt Betty All right now You may have noticed

01:07:16

I didn't cite any Bible verses but did I communicate biblical truth Did I put a pebble in aunt

01:07:22

Betty's shoe? Give her something to think about That's your job men and women. Oh, by the way that one -minute soundbite

01:07:29

They'll be in the notes that we're gonna give out the site list to tomorrow So we'll have that there for you and you won't have to think of boy.

01:07:37

I didn't get get all that We'll make sure you get it notice That I gave aunt

01:07:43

Betty something to think about now is aunt Betty gonna fall on her knees and say that just clarifies Everything I am now pro -life

01:07:51

No and Tomorrow's session first session tomorrow. We're gonna talk about the five bad ways aunt

01:07:58

Betty's gonna respond Five bad ways. You don't need to memorize every objection The truth is if you know these five

01:08:05

You'll be able to slot their objections into one of these five and be able to make a clear -headed response when you hear it

01:08:11

So we'll talk about the five bad ways that people do that. So let's review what we did tonight How do we make a case on hostile turf?

01:08:17

Our job is not to close the deal if that happens great We'll rejoice if there is a case where the person converts on the spot great

01:08:25

But don't think yourself a failure just because they don't immediately say you changed my mind Give them something to think about put that pebble in their shoe.

01:08:33

How do you do that? You persuasively answer the question. What is the unborn? What is the unborn a distinct living whole human being?

01:08:42

You answer the question what makes us valuable it's not some function that may come and go like self -awareness or physical development

01:08:49

Rather it's that we have the same human nature made in the image of God and thirdly we answer the question what's the point by stepping up when the time comes and Defending our unborn neighbor by giving a case for his dignity and humanity that someone can grasp

01:09:07

Even if they're not a believer, that's what we do. That's our job. That's what it means to be an apologist

01:09:12

So pastor Jim is going to come up. Are we gonna take a break? 15 minute break.

01:09:18

This is a very liberal Church. I mean, excuse me a very generous Church Well that that was a slip