August 7, 2023 Show with Ed Romine on “The Open Air Preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon”
August 7, 2023
ED ROMINE, pastor of education and evangelism @ First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah, who will address:
“The OPEN AIR PREACHING of CHARLES HADDON SPURGEON”
Transcript
Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson,
19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports
legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.
This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning
issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens
another.
Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to
have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener,
with your own questions.
And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on
the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this seventh day of
August, 2023.
I would appreciate the prayers of our listeners today, because here in Carlisle,
Pennsylvania, where my studio is located, we are
receiving tornado warnings.
So there is a possibility that this live program might be cut
short due to a tornado passing.
Through.
I might lose power.
I may have to run to the basement of this home.
So we will let you know if we hear any further updates on those warnings, and
obviously, you will know if we get cut off the air by hearing dead silence.
So please keep us in your prayers.
I'm thrilled to have on the program today a first -time guest.
His name is Ed Romine, pastor of education and evangelism at First Baptist Church of
Provo, Utah.
And today we're going to be discussing the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.
It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor
Ed Romine.
Thank you, dear brother. Thank you so much.
Well, before we get into your personal testimony and before we get into the
theme of our program today, tell our listeners something about First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.
Yes, sir.
Well, Provo, Utah is very significant in that
Brigham Young University is located here, otherwise known as
BYU.
And if you know anything about BYU, it is the private
university that is owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints,
more commonly called Mormons by the wider religious community
in the world.
And so being the location of BYU, Provo is
very much highly LDS or Mormon.
It is about 79 LDS here, and it is about
0 .49 Evangelical Christian.
Wow.
So, yeah.
So it's the most lost metro area of the United
States.
Wow.
And I'm assuming you folks have a vigorous outreach to the Latter -day
Saint community?
We do.
We do.
And this dovetails well into our topic today.
My title, as you stated, Brother Chris, is the pastor of education and
evangelism.
And in particular, we're going to be talking about the evangelism aspect of my role
today on your program, Lord willing.
And in so doing, I do a lot of street evangelism, passing out
tracks, getting into conversations, doing open -air preaching.
And the Lord has just really, really blessed the ministry here.
My goal as one of the pastors is to equip our people to want to
go out and do street evangelism, to even be very
intentional, as it were, to do gospel -centered relational
evangelism in the workplace with those whom they can build relationships with,
to where that relationship is founded upon being very forthright about the
gospel rather than this idea that's commonly purported of, oh,
well, you've got to earn the right to share the gospel with somebody through a friendship.
I don't think that's very good or biblical.
But a good relational evangelism is just being very upfront about the
gospel because we are Christians, and the gospel permeates everything
we think about life and the world around us.
Amen.
But I'm sure you would agree that whenever possible, it is a very wise and biblical thing
to create friendships, friendships
with the lost, specifically, just as our Lord Jesus did, and to use those as
opportunities to evangelize and pour upon these folks the love of Christ,
not only through evangelizing them, but through good deeds.
Amen.
Amen.
Do you have the FBI flying a helicopter over you right now?
There is a plane flying over.
There's something flying over.
Maybe it's a UFO.
Those have been in the news a lot lately, right?
Yes, they have been.
What is the primary theological basis of First Baptist Church of
Provo?
Broadly speaking, we would consider ourselves Baptists who are
Calvinists.
Our official statement of faith is the Abstract of Principles,
which is the first document of the Southern Baptist Convention that
is very Calvinistic.
Personally, I affirm and confess the London Baptist Confession
of 1689, but we are not a 1689 Reformed Baptist Church.
I understand.
Yeah, we don't require for church membership for somebody to sign onto that
document.
Right, and when I, by the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ,
was saved out of Roman Catholicism and entered into membership
at a Reformed Baptist Church, I was not required to agree with the
confession, even though it was a confessional church, but they insisted that I
pledge not to undermine those teachings and to recognize that the leadership of that
church held to those positions, and I was to respect that and submit
to their authority in those things.
But they recognized that sanctification is a process, and it
may take years for some people to grasp the doctrines of grace and embrace them
personally.
Thankfully, it only took a couple of months for our Lord to show mercy on me in that area and open
my eyes to these teachings.
Right.
So I just wanted to say that because not all confessional churches, some may, but not all confessional
churches insist that a candidate for baptism and membership believe
in its entirety the London Baptist Confession of Faith, or even the Westminster if you're a Presbyterian or the Three
Forms of Unity if you are a Continental Reformed brother or.
Sister.
Right.
Go ahead.
Right.
And we're much the same way in that we have members of our church
who wouldn't even consider themselves Calvinistic or adherence
to the doctrines of grace, but when you live in Provo,
Utah, you can't be too picky because it's not
like the Bible Belt South where there's a gospel preaching church
on every corner.
Yeah, and I'm originally from New York, and we're pretty much in the same boat in a different way, not that we're saturated
with Mormons.
That would be a minority of the population there.
But we have obviously, we are notorious in New York for being
saturated with leftists and also a very
diverse religious makeup in New York.
Yeah.
Isn't the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses headquartered in New York?
Yes, it was in Brooklyn, and I'd have to check if it's still in Brooklyn.
I know they moved their exact location in Brooklyn, but
I don't know if they left Brooklyn entirely.
I'd have to look that up.
They may still be in New York State, though.
Okay, okay.
Oh, New York City, okay.
Yeah, Brooklyn is one of the five boroughs of New York City, even though technically it's on Long Island
where I am from, because you don't cross a bridge to get from Long Island to Brooklyn.
It's part of the same thing.
And so is Queens, for that matter.
I just wanted to make sure our listeners have your email address for First Baptist Church of Provo.
It's fbcprovo .org, F -B -C for First Baptist Church,
Provo, P -R -O -V as in victory, O, .org, First Baptist Church of Provo,
Utah.
And now, as I hinted at earlier, we have a tradition here on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, whenever we have
a first -time guest, we request of that guest to give a
summary of their salvation testimony that would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they were
raised, and what kind of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives
that drew them to themselves and saved them.
So I'd love to hear your story.
Yes, sir.
Well, it'd be a joy to share it.
So I know you can see me.
The listeners cannot.
But if you were to be able to watch our video, you could see, as Brother Chris can't hear,
that I am in an electric wheelchair.
I was born with cerebral palsy.
And if you've heard the name Justin Peters...
He is a good friend.
Yes.
I love Justin.
He's one of my best friends.
We both have the same...
Yes.
We both have the same disability, cerebral palsy.
And I tell him every so often, Brother, you're the good -looking version of
me.
And he just laughs.
And, you know, I, dear listener, was raised
by my grandparents.
And what I tell people all the time is that they were C &E Christians.
C &E standing for Christmas and Easter.
So they would ship me off to vacation
Bible school sometimes during the summer when I was a little
kid.
And I always personally hated vacation
Bible schools because all the activities, at least back in
the 90s, presupposed that you could sing and dance.
You wanted to be all happy -clappy and things of that nature.
And in so doing, my experience at
church was limited to those things, just the holidays and the vacation Bible
school.
And you know how those can oftentimes be run.
Not all of them.
A well -meaning Sunday school teacher and maybe even the pastor will say, well,
kids, you don't want to go to hell, do you?
And of course, no kid wants to go to hell.
So there were a couple times I can remember raising my hand to quote -unquote
accept Jesus into my heart.
So they would get a letter.
My grandparents would get a letter saying that I did that.
You know, that didn't mean too much.
I didn't know what I was doing.
And as well -intentioned as those VBS teachers were, I
would say now that the methods that they were using were not the best.
And I don't think it's wise to do that sort of thing.
But that being said, I didn't really grow up in a Christian home.
I wouldn't say that at all.
But they taught me general truths about God that
every American, at least back in the 90s, would have agreed with, such
as God is good.
God created.
God is all -powerful.
But they also taught me things that were not good at all, such as
because I had several palsy, because I'm disabled, I would die and go to heaven and
become one of God's angels.
Looking back on that now, that's got multiple theological problems with it.
But that's what they taught me.
So I can remember as far back as six, seven years old, thinking, God, if
you're good, and if you created everything, and you're all -powerful,
why in the world did you create me with a disability?
And I remember from a young age just resenting God because of that.
And I can also remember at a young age just having this
inclination and fascination towards dark things.
Towards demonic things.
And I don't know exactly where that came from.
We're all inclined to certain sins, I think.
And for me, mine was with a fascination towards dark things.
And demonic things.
I remember I would actually scare my grandpa because he
would ask me sometimes, Son, why are you fascinated with
the devil?
Why are you fascinated with demonic things?
When I was growing up, Brother Chris, Christmas was not my favorite holiday.
Even though I enjoyed the gifts that I got and all that good stuff, my favorite
holiday was actually Halloween.
And I didn't just enjoy it for like trick -or -treating and candy, but I enjoyed it for like all
the blood, guts, and dark and demonic things.
And it got to the point to where they actually called in a local pastor
to talk to me about it because they were so scared.
And that didn't really do anything for me.
Fast forward to the age of 14.
Both of my grandparents who had raised me, my grandmother and my step -grandfather,
they were like my mom and dad.
And they both died six months apart from each other
from lung cancer.
So to kind of put this on a timeline, I was born in 1990.
By about 1996, 1997, I really began to
not question God's existence.
I never struggled with that.
I knew he existed.
I just hated him.
Like I said, I was like, God, why did you make me with a disability?
Why did you do that?
So fast forward to 2004, about 13,
14 years old, depending on the month, my grandparents
died from lung cancer.
Both of them diagnosed six months apart from each other.
They were heavy smokers.
And I grew up with them smoking in the house and all that stuff.
And so they died around that time.
And that just sent me off into a rage, Brother Chris.
So I decided to delve in more deeply into
demonic things.
And I used to go into all the details of what that was like.
And I don't really do that anymore because I find that the Christian community has an
unhealthy fascination with the occult.
And so all that to say, a lot of weird, weird,
spiritual, supernatural things happened to me.
Because as far back as I could remember, I always felt more spiritually sensitive to
dark and demonic things to begin with.
And so I delved into it more, just developing a
fascination with all things dark.
That lasted for about two years.
And then at the age of 16, I
at that time was getting very, very good on my musical instruments.
I had started playing the trombone and the euphonium
at the age of 11, 12 years old in beginner band.
And by that time, 2006, I'd gotten pretty good at my
instruments as an upperclassman in high school.
Good enough to where I could actually teach the lower class.
What is a euphonium?
It is a small tuba.
So if you want to Google it real quick, it's E -U -P -H -O -N
-I -U -M.
E -U -P -H -O...
Yeah, E -U -P -H -O -N -I -U -M.
Okay.
And you'll see it looks like a miniature tuba.
And it's got a very beautiful sound.
I think if you know how to play it well, it's very mellow.
And just a wonderful, wonderful instrument.
So I played both those.
I ended up majoring...
My bachelor's degree is in music.
And I majored in music and took lessons on both
throughout college.
And so my bachelor's degree is actually in music.
But going back to my junior year, I met this freshman trombonist
who my band director had said, I want you to teach him and prepare him for some
competitions.
So I ended up doing that.
And this young man ended up both telling me
about Jesus and inviting me to church.
Yeah, he did both.
And he kept nagging at me.
And the way he invited me to church, Chris, it was like, hey, we have a church
orchestra.
We would love for you to come play in our church orchestra.
And so finally, he ended up letting me do that.
Looking back on it, I would never allow an unbeliever to participate in
that way in our service.
But hey, that's what the Lord uses.
God uses the foolishness of men every day to bring his elect
to himself.
That's right.
So I ended up going and playing in the church orchestra.
And I had to sit there through the service and we would always play the invitation
hymn as well.
And I don't remember what the preacher preached on.
His name is Roy Ford.
He's still pastoring and preaching.
But I remember the gospel was clearly explained.
And the Lord used that preacher to open up my heart and save my soul about
two weeks later.
Praise God.
Now, going back to your occult days, and I
will not ask you for details or in -depth details, as you said you don't like to do.
But were you in any group, gathering,
association of people involved in the occult and involved in Satanism and so on?
Yeah, it was all private for me.
So yeah.
Which I'm glad I wasn't involved in a group.
I was telling a brother at our church the other day, I'm glad the Lord got me out early.
I was simply a dabbler.
You know, if you know the name Doreen Virtue?
I was never into it as deeply as Ms. Doreen was.
Especially with the hardcore Satan worship stuff because as you
may be aware there's a lot of there's a lot of child
sacrifice, a lot of homosexuality that goes on.
I'm so thankful the Lord only allowed me to do it privately.
Do you think that the child sacrifice was something that was really taking
place?
I remember there was a lot of hype in the 80s, maybe before you were born,
you looked like a young guy.
There was a lot of hype where there were charlatan Christians making a ton of
money by making all kinds of claims such as
that there was this very vast and wide and numerically large
underground of Satanists and they were sacrificing babies and a lot of these people or at least
a significant number of them who were prominent were proven to be charlatans even on that
level.
Yeah, are you talking about like the satanic panic.
And like John's heart and things.
Like that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think they blew it out of proportion but it does
happen.
I can't go into details on this but we have
a brother in our church that can attest
to such things.
Yes, and there was a very well -known Christian
stand -up comic Michael Warnke who made all kinds of claims about being a high priest in
the church of Satan and that was all disproven as being.
False.
Right, right.
Well, we are going to our first commercial break and when we come back we are going to sink our
teeth into the main theme, the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.
And if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Ed Romine and I'm pronouncing
that correctly, am I.
Not?
Yes sir, yes sir, yeah.
A lot of people say Romaine like the lettuce and it's like there's no A in there so you're
exactly.
Right.
When we return we'll be discussing the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.
And this was a dissertation of yours, correct?
Correct, yes sir, yes sir.
What was the degree that the dissertation was for?
Yes, I have a PhD.
Oh, praise God.
And so this was your doctoral dissertation?
Yes sir, yes sir.
Oh, praise God.
Well, as I said, we would love to have your questions via email at chrisarnsen at gmail .com
c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n z -e -n at gmail .com.
As always, give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.
Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
Don't go away, we'll be right back with Pastor Ed Romaine after these messages from our sponsors.
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We are now back with our guest today, Pastor Ed Romine, who is pastor of education and
evangelism at First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.
We are discussing his doctoral dissertation theme, which is the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon
Spurgeon.
If you have a question of your own, please send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.
ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.
Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.
Before I even start asking you questions about this theme, we do have
Ted in Moundville, Alabama, who has already submitted two questions.
The first is, Mr. Romine's bio on the church website states that he's
been a preacher since 2007.
Having done the math, I deduced that this means that he was preaching at the age
of 17, and he was preaching less than a year after he became a Christian.
How would he respond to the argument that a Christian shouldn't be preaching so soon after his conversion,
and that perhaps no Christian at the tender age of 17 should be preaching?
Well, just guess what, Ted, that would rule out Charles Haddon Spurgeon, for your information.
Who was a pastor when he was 16.
But anyway, if you want to respond.
And I understand Ted's point, though, because we're not to hastily lay hands
upon a new convert, as the Bible says, and that's in reference to ordaining them.
But go ahead.
Yeah, so I think that's a very fair question.
So notice that it says I was a preacher since 2007.
I was not a pastor.
So if I could delve into some of my post -salvation testimony.
After I got saved, it was so radical for
me.
My family, my mom, my brother, my mom and my
brother.
I had a sister, too, but she's nine years younger than me.
So she doesn't remember this.
They saw a radical change in me.
I started carrying a Bible with me to school, reading it during study hall
period.
And they noticed that my demeanor was completely changed.
I didn't struggle as much with angry outbursts at them.
And I mean, honestly, even more so than dabbling into various parts
of the occult, I was really just an angry human being.
I did not like other human beings.
And they saw a radical change in me that if my mom was still alive today, she
would attest to.
My brother would tell you that our relationship is a thousand times better.
My preaching was under the very strict oversight of Pastor
Roy Ford.
He's just the old school Southern Baptist type of the
50s and 60s.
If he saw any potential in a preacher boy, he immediately took him under
the wing.
And he always thought I was well -spoken ever since he got
to know me.
So he told me to consider the ministry.
And he told me if I ever wanted to preach, all I had to do
was ask him for a Sunday night step away from the pulpit, and he would let me preach.
By the way, is Roy still alive?
Yeah, he just turned 80, and he is still pastoring.
Because I'm almost certain that that name rang a loud bell.
I'm almost I'm almost certain somebody urged me to interview him.
And somehow along the way that that idea slipped through the cracks.
Well, now I'm even more committed and determined to try to find.
In fact, you could give me off the air his contact information and perhaps we can invite him on the show.
Yeah, well, Roy is a common name.
Roy Ford's a common couple names to put together.
I wonder if it's even the same Roy Ford.
In fact, that's where I purchased my first car at 18 years old at the Roy Ford.
I'm only kidding.
But that directly answers the question.
Tim is his name, right?
That's the question.
No, Ted.
Ted.
Sorry.
Sorry, Ted.
So, Ted, in general, I agree with you that a
teacher of the word should not be a recent convert.
So would I do it that way now?
No, but that is what happened to me.
Right.
So you've got to understand that even that preaching, though, I was not
officially a teacher.
And I was under the strict oversight of Pastor Roy Ford.
And he gave me a lot of tips.
I tell people all the time, even though I've been to seminary, Roy was the one that taught me how to
preach.
So that would be the answer.
Yes, I did start preaching very soon after conversion.
Would I do that now?
No, that is what happened to me.
But it wasn't even a Charles Spurgeon situation or an H .P. Charles situation
where I was thrust into the pastoral office.
I didn't know that happened with H .P. Charles.
Yeah, he started pastoring, I believe, at 16 years old.
Well, Ted has a second question.
And this would require a much more brief answer because it's totally off topic.
He is asking this from information he saw on your website.
What is third wave coffee?
Now, obviously, there's an old saying that's very true.
You can't buy coffee.
You can only rent it.
So I'm hoping and praying that third wave coffee has nothing to do with the third
phase after the rental process.
Well, you know what's funny, Ted?
I was on Justin Peters' YouTube channel talking about Spurgeon and
complementarianism.
And Justin made the joke about how I hope I
wasn't getting into the third wave charismaticism.
So, yeah, third wave coffee, though, has to do with how you prepare the beans and
all that good stuff.
So it's a step above, like, Starbucks or a random
coffee shop.
And it has nothing to do, I'm hoping, also with that coffee that comes out of a certain
nasty orifice of a monkey.
Yeah, right, right. Yes.
There are people that swear by that coffee.
I'm not making that up.
That's a real thing.
Well, something you learn about people when you're in ministry, as I'm sure you know, is
people can be very weird sometimes.
Well, Ted, thanks for the question.
In spite of your shocking news that you're no fan of Charles Haddon Spurgeon,
I'm very tempted to publicly announce Ted's exact
address in Moundville, Alabama, so that my Reformed Baptist hitman can
search him down and rough him up a bit in the parking lot, just as if
he was under church discipline in a Reformed Baptist church.
That's right.
But I really appreciate that honest question.
I could see how the preaching so soon would have done some bad stuff.
And, folks, I just heard a very loud rumble outside.
I hope this is not news that I've got to hit the basement.
But as I mentioned earlier, there's a tornado warning here.
But I will keep conducting the interview until I hear otherwise or until the roof is torn
off my studio here.
What made you say to yourself when it came time for you to write a doctoral dissertation?
And I know that the goal of a doctoral dissertation is that you're supposed to write on something that nobody has
ever written on before in regard to a doctoral dissertation.
I don't know how possible it is to always accomplish that, because there are
no doubt millions of people throughout these centuries who have written doctoral dissertations.
But tell us about that, the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.
Yeah.
So just real quickly, a lot of times the way people work around that is that they
will present their doctoral dissertations for the Ph .D. a
different angle on somebody else's position.
So you take, for example, all the different shades of nuance on limited
atonement, for example.
That can be a way that people write a Ph .D. dissertation because it's still
technically a contribution.
They're just saying why somebody is wrong.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
So for me, I already mentioned I did my bachelor's in music
on my instruments.
I have a bachelor of arts in music, trombone and euphonium.
And I had every intention of going to get a
master's in music after that.
And providentially, God shut the doors on that for me.
And God opened up the doors for me to go into ministry with
a church's blessing.
And so I ended up getting the master of divinity in biblical
languages and a master of theology in preaching
from the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth.
And while I was working on my master of divinity, I ended up
meeting a young man who was a freshman at the College of Southwestern Baptist
Theological Seminary at the time.
And he got to know me through talking theology.
We found out that we were theologically like -minded.
And he was very much influenced by the ministry of Ray Comfort.
And he said to me, why don't you come out and do evangelism with me?
And I responded to him, well, I don't think I'd be very good at that because I'm
disabled.
I just don't see how that would work.
And Brother Taylor Callen, the young man, said to me, if you want to
come, I will help you get around.
And so Brother Taylor introduced to me the idea of street
evangelism and open air preaching.
And I found out through doing it that I love street evangelism, all
forms of it.
And as I started digging into that world
and finding the reformed wing of that world, the
Calvinistic wing of that world.
No doubt a tiny wing, unfortunately.
Yeah, it's very niche, right?
And so I got involved in that world.
And I had already heard of Charles Spurgeon by this time.
But somebody had mentioned, I think it was at a Sports Fan Outreach
International, that Bill Adams host.
I went to one of those.
And I think somebody had mentioned there, you know, Charles Spurgeon was an advocate of
open air preaching.
And I remember thinking, oh, really?
So I looked it up and lo and behold, there it was.
There was two lectures there.
And so I got to doing some digging.
And, you know, this is near the coattail ends of what's called the Young Restless
Reform Movement, 2013 -2014.
You know, Mark Driscoll was still big at the time.
You know, looking back on it, you know, the YRR movement was coming to an end.
So there was a lot of people that wanted to have a Spurgeonic ministry.
And then I started realizing that nobody had written about
Spurgeon's open air preaching, but everybody wanted to have a Spurgeonic ministry.
And so I did research on it, and I found out, like, wow, this is a
big part of Spurgeon's thinking.
And so I ended up doing the MDiv and the THM through Midwestern.
And then I did another THM in pedagogy, which is the art of
teaching through Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.
And then I did the PhD proper and wrote the dissertation.
So I have Taylor Cowan to credit for getting me into
open air preaching.
And I think it might have been him that actually told me about Spurgeon, too, but my memory fails me
on that.
Well, it seems that you have at least five degrees less than I do.
I'm only kidding.
I don't have any degrees.
Other than an associate's degree for art in a community college
that, unfortunately, where I was a student before I was saved.
So I treated that really just like a three -year party.
It took me three years to get a two -year degree.
But anyway.
Well, brother, I'll tell you, I don't think too much about the fact that I have a
doctorate.
I mean, you can see my bed because you can see where I'm at.
And guess where my PhD is?
It's under my bed.
So I don't think too much about it.
Not that I don't care about the work or anything.
But, you know, I tell my church family, please don't call me doctor.
I'm just Ed.
And then, of course, they do whenever I don't know something.
So, yes, I have to constantly repeat to my audience, I am not a doctor.
I just play one in my spare time in my neighborhood.
I have to go to our midway break right now.
And, folks, the midway break is always longer than the other breaks in the show.
Because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the
show.
Because the FCC requires of them to localize this show geographically to Lake City,
Florida, where they are located.
And they do that with their own public service announcements and other local things.
While they do that, we simultaneously air our globally aired commercials.
Please use this time wisely.
Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can.
So that you can more successfully and frequently respond to our
advertisers.
And hopefully that will mean sometimes you'll buy their products and use their services.
But when you can't do that, please at least contact our advertisers and thank them for sponsoring the show.
Because we absolutely positively depend upon our advertisers to exist.
So if you love this show and are grateful that there are people who actually spend their hard -earned money to keep us on the air,
please thank them for that.
And also send in your questions to Ed Romine at chrisarnson at gmail .com.
Chrisarnson at gmail .com.
As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.
We'll be right back with Ed Romine.
Do not go away.
The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023, The Gospel at
War.
September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
Featuring Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.
We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.
Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian,
A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity.
The debate topic, Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable Identity for a Member of Christ's Church?
So come join us for the sixth Future of Christendom conference.
The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day Saturday,
with an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the Independence Reformed Bible Church.
This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching, with a theme of the Gospel at War in many areas of our culture, including
government schools, the Supreme Court, missions, feminism, and even the church pulpits.
Head to futureofchristendom .org.
James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.
I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I
are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.
That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd, on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching,
writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.
I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott
Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.
And there's more great news.
Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration
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Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo code
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Chris Arnson, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3
National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.
Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while
you're there.
Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for
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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American
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It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been
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Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church.
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Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and
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This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.
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This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron
Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers that strives
to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work
of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes,
or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we
hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.
Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.
That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign
Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and
always.
Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.
Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at
CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
They specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for
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CVBBS has been a family -owned book service since 1987, operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
They seek to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices.
Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because, frankly,
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Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.
If you love Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is
by supporting our advertisers.
One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is
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They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare
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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.
I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.
I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope
Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher
McDowell.
It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in
Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the
unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ
Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing
of being showered by their love, as I have.
For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.
That's hopereformedli .net.
Or call 631 -696 -5711.
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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa
on Iron Sharpens Iron.
Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.
Do you know what they all have in common?
They all require training, assessments, and certifications.
But do you know what requires no training at all?
Becoming a parent.
My name is A .M. Brewster.
I'm the president of Truth Love Parent and host of its award -winning podcast.
I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s.
And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in
their homes.
That's why Truth Love Parent exists.
We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.
We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of
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Please visit us at truthloveparent .com.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.
The man who never reads will never be read.
He who never quotes will never be quoted.
He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read.
Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.
The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and
future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting
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We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.
That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past
or present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
And please, folks, make solid -ground -books .com your very first stop
for all of your gift -giving needs.
And I want to please urge you folks to prayerfully consider
buying books from solid -ground -books .com today
if you've never purchased books from them before, especially.
Or if you are already a customer, I'm asking you to please purchase extra
books from them.
They are hitting a sales slump right now, and we absolutely
positively depend upon the advertising dollars from solid -ground -books .com,
a premier and a vital sponsor of this program.
And we would hate to hear the bad news from Mike Gaydosch, the founder and
president of solid -ground -books .com, that they would have to either postpone
further advertising or cancel advertising completely because they just can't afford it.
So please help us by helping them, and you're going to be helping yourself.
You're not only going to be doing solid -ground -books .com a
favor by purchasing books from them, and you're not only going to be doing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a favor
by keeping one of our most prominent and important advertisers happy.
You're going to be doing yourself and anyone for whom you are purchasing gifts from solid -ground -books
.com an enormous favor of incalculable value because they bring back into print and also publish for the
first time nothing but the finest in Christian literature dating back to the 16th century Protestant Reformation
and extending forward to our current day, including such modern -day authors as Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega
Ministries.
So I'm urging you, please, if you love this show, go to solid -ground -books .com today,
purchase generously, and mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
I'm urging you, please do that if you love this show.
Also, folks, another thing that I'm asking you to do if you love this show, go to
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You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.
And if you prefer the old -fashioned way of donating to an
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And I'm also urging you again, please help us, because after the
insanity of the COVID hysteria, the giving to Iron
Sharpens Iron Radio plummeted, and I can only assume that was because
people's livelihoods were negatively affected, and the giving has never bounced
back.
I'm urging you, please, if you love this show and wanted to stick around, go to ironsharpensironradio
.com, click support, then click click to donate now.
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Please always remember, although we are in urgent need of your donations, I never want anybody giving less money to their
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Please never do that.
Never cut in to the funds that you have set aside for your Lord's Day giving to your own local
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Do not do that.
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There are things in the Bible that are commanded of us by God to do with our finances.
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We really need it.
Go to ironsharpenesignradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.
Also, please do not forget that Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, my very dear friend
since 1995, is coming here to Pennsylvania, Lancaster County, to
be more specific.
He is one of the speakers, the keynote speaker, at the Future of
Christendom Conference, a conference that is being arranged by yours truly and also the
Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society.
And not only is there going to be a three -day conference from September 15th through the 17th, that's
Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, there is also going to be a debate on Saturday, September
16th, starting at 3 .30 p .m., between Dr. White and Dr. Gregory Coles,
who identifies himself as a gay Christian.
The theme of that debate is, is gay Christian a biblically acceptable identity for a
member of Christ's church?
So please, if you would like to attend any of those events, the three -day conference and
the debate, go to futureofchristendom .org today,
futureofchristendom .org to register.
Finally, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound,
doctrinally solid church, like First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah, no matter where you live on the planet Earth,
I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches spanning the globe, and I've helped many people in our audience in all
parts of the world find churches, sometimes just within a few minutes from where they live, that they didn't
even know existed.
So, if you are in that predicament, you don't have a biblically faithful church home, or you are a member, send me an email, no matter
where in the world you live, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line.
That's also the email address where you can send in your questions to Ed Romine on the open -air preaching of Charles Sattin Spurgeon,
chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.
And one of the first things that comes to mind, Pastor Ed,
in regard to this theme of your doctoral dissertation, is that it is an
excellent way of not only proving to Reformed people themselves, but especially those
who are outside of the Reformed faith, outside of the church that
identifies itself as Calvinistic, or believers in the doctrines of sovereign grace,
there is a stereotype that Calvinism would
absolutely remove that kind of passion from Christians to not
only present and declare and preach and teach the gospel within the four walls of
a church, but to actually venture out into the public square and other places outside where
many lost people are gathered in order to, in an open -air fashion, preach the gospel,
knowing that a notable figure, a hero of the Reformed faith, who is actually a
hero of people outside of the Reformed faith as well, there are vehement anti -Calvinists who are
fundamentalists who claim to love Charles Sattin Spurgeon, I wonder sometimes if they've ever read what he wrote, but
it is a good proof that this is not antithetical, this open -air preaching is not
antithetical to Calvinism, am I right?
That is correct, that is correct.
And given to the meat of our show today,
my dissertation, the meat of it, the subtitle of my
dissertation is called, The Pedagogy and Practice of
Charles Sattin Spurgeon's Open -Air Preaching.
By the way, I absolutely, a local Polish restaurant, I absolutely love pedagogy and
sour cream.
I'm sorry.
It deals with the art of how to teach, and I alluded before the break to
the fact that Spurgeon has two lectures dedicated to open -air
preaching.
Those lectures are found in volume two of Lectures to My Students, and
normally when you get a publication of Lectures to My Students nowadays, it's one big
volume, but originally it's two volumes, and it's found
in the second volume, two lectures.
The first lecture is called A Sketch of Its History, Open -Air Preaching,
A Sketch of Its History, and the second lecture is called Open -Air
Preaching Remarks Their Own.
First off, I just think it's significant that that's one of the very few topics
that Spurgeon devotes two lectures on in his big ministry
book called Lectures to My Students.
If you're not familiar with what Lectures to My Students is, the first
parachurch ministry that Spurgeon founded and the one that was dearest to his heart
was the Pastors College, P -A -S -T -O -R -S
apostrophe, college.
What that was was it was an educational institution in order to
train ministers who were too poor financially to go to an
official Church of England institution, and he wanted to train men who
were already doing the work of the ministry.
In fact, his first -ever student, who was named Medhurst,
T .W. Medhurst, he found out on the streets
doing open -air preaching, and he thought Mr. Medhurst had a
wonderful zeal, but he lacked theological knowledge and precision in his
preaching.
So Spurgeon, being young himself, took him under his wing and
taught him how to do theology and how to be a
good preacher both in the streets and in the pulpit.
Well, with the Pastors College, every Friday
afternoon, Spurgeon would give his own lectures to his
students, and they were more casual in nature because it was the end of the week,
Friday, and a lot of Lectures to My Students, if you've ever read it, there's a lot
of humor within his lectures.
They're very laid -back, very casual, but it's still very Spurgeonic in
the way that he lectures and the way that he outlines things, and the
open -air preaching lectures are two of the lectures within the Lectures to My
Students on Friday afternoon.
And the lecture entitled, A Sketch of Its History, is
exactly what it sounds like.
So Spurgeon goes back to Old Testament times and
traces open -air preaching from the Old Testament, beginning with what
he argues was Noah, who was a preacher of righteousness, according to
the New Testament.
So he said Noah was the first open -air preacher that we know of.
Then he traces the Old Testament all the way through Noah,
Moses, the prophets primarily.
Then he gets into the New Testament with our Lord Jesus, who in
Mark 1 .15 says, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
And a lot of people miss the fact, where did he start preaching that?
Well, the text says he was walking along the seashore, so
technically that is an open -air preaching event.
And open -air preaching, broadly speaking, is any preaching that
happens outside the four walls of a building.
So it can be in a field, it can be on the street proper, it can be on a college campus,
it can be on the beach.
I know Ray Comfort does a lot of beach preaching.
And the first ever sermon that we know of given by Jesus in Mark
was the walking along the seashore saying, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at
hand.
And then Spurgeon traces through the Book of Acts
all the open -air preaching that happened in the Book of Acts, most famously Morris
Hill in Acts 17, I believe.
And then once he's done with the New Testament, he goes into the early church,
he goes into the pre -Reformation or Reformation periods, and then
he goes into the Puritans, and then he traces his open -air
preaching all the way up to his current day in the 19th century.
And what I find most interesting is that he even mentions closer to
his present day the old Methodist circuit riders
that would often preach in the open -air on horseback.
They would go from town to town and preach.
And then another thing that's very interesting, Spurgeon believed that
the Reformation fires were stoked by actually Catholic friars
who preached in the open -air.
If you want to know more about that, you can actually read the book itself because I
delve into some of the sources by men like J .H. Merrill and
Ogbegun.
I don't know if I'm pronouncing that name right because it's French.
But he goes into a lot of sources that in the
lecture are unsighted, so a lot of my doctoral work actually
goes into giving academic citations to a lot of Spurgeon's
references that weren't there in the publication as we have it
in lectures to my students.
Was Spurgeon referring to in regard to those Catholic friars who in his
opinion sparked the Reformation?
I'm assuming they sparked the Reformation because they were in the open -air declaring and
preaching something that was contrary to the official dogma of Rome.
Yes, he did say that a lot of the old open -air
preachers in the Catholic Church were actually Dominican
friars who Spurgeon and other 19th century preachers
say actually went against the current Pope of the day.
Well, it's good to know that some of the Dominicans did that contrary to Johann Tetzel who was a Dominican
and he did nothing of the sort obviously.
He was bilking the public financially to raise money
to build St. Peter's Cathedral and was
scaring them using tactics of threats that if they did not give alms
to the Catholic Church, their loved ones would be troubled.
Yes, what's the old saying?
A coin in the coffer clings to self in purgatory springs.
That's right.
Let's see.
The first question is, I understand that the Wesleys and George Whitefield
had confrontations with the established Church of England who opposed
their open -air preaching.
Did Spurgeon face the same thing over a century later?
No, he did not.
The 19th century England under Queen Victoria was
pretty free for things like that.
And there was even, I actually bring this up at the end of my
dissertation for suggestions for further research.
There were actually clergy of the Church of England, the
established church today, that also did open -air preaching.
So some doctoral student ought to roll up their sleeves and take
that on as a research project because I couldn't find any
documentation of what the Church of England preaching was like.
But to answer your question, 19th century England was much freer
than what Whitefield and Wesley faced.
At least what I would say right now.
I'm actually working on a second book on the preaching of George Whitefield.
And so I'll probably be able to delve into that more and give them a better
comparative analysis in a year or two.
So just so you know, Brother Chris, because of my CP, I tap
with this finger.
I've never been able to do the home row keys just because my hands are too stiff.
And for those of you that are just listening, I'm holding up my right
corner finger.
And so it takes me a little bit of time to type out anything, whether it's a text message
or an article for a journal or whatnot.
You probably still type faster than I do using my two
index fingers.
I don't know how to type.
People use ten fingers to type.
I only use my two index fingers.
And when I'm texting back and forth with people, especially if they're young, they will return
five texts before I even have a chance to respond to their first one.
Well, I'm right there with you.
And I'm not as young as I used to be.
I'm in my 30s now.
So the real young people of today, they think I'm old.
So I always tell people age is relative to where you're at.
Now, the listener was asking about a comparison between the
Wesleys and Whitfields and Spurgeon a century later,
where the Wesleys and Whitfields had opposition to their open air preaching from the Church of England.
Do you know the primary reasons why the Church of England opposed them?
Was it primarily superstition, that there was something unique about the
building of a church where they were expected to confine
their proclamation of the gospel?
What was the deal with that?
I can't remember who it was, but I remember hearing stories.
It might have been the Wesleys, where the members of the church actually
unleashed or opened up the gates where there were
herds of cattle and chased them into the areas where
possibly the Wesleys were preaching just to disrupt the whole thing.
I don't know if that's folklore or not.
Yeah, yeah.
I can't speak to the whole cattle thing.
But what I can say, and I'll be able to, Lord willing, give a more fleshed out answer later,
is that we've got to understand that for those who
baptized infants back in the day, to
be a part of a non -conformist group,
which this would have been the same.
So the Church of England was the established church of the day.
That meant that they were the state church.
And the Wesleys and Whitfield were members of that church.
Right, right.
And what you essentially have is the
established Church of England, and you have Roman Catholicism, and then you have what's
called the non -conformists.
The non -conformists were Baptists, Presbyterians, Congregationalists,
Methodists, primarily.
There were others, like the Quakers, but primarily those groups.
And the reason why they were called non -conformists is because they didn't conform to the religion of the
day, the Book of Common Prayer.
And so for them to
not be a part of the Church of England, this was true in Spurgeon's day, but more so in
Whitfield and Wesley's day.
You're not only making a theological statement, you're also being a
turd bucket politically.
You know what I mean?
That is the first time that the phrase turd bucket has ever been uttered on this
program.
Well, I just said the first thing that came to my mind.
It has been included in hate mail to me personally.
Well, that was not directed at you.
Oh, goodness.
But, you know, essentially they would have seen those as
going against the grain, being a troublemaker, right?
Right.
And so it caused a lot of political pressure,
especially for men that were a part of the Church that got dejected.
Now saying, well, you won't let me preach in the established churches.
I'm going to go out because people still want to hear my message.
So they were saying, you're going to not allow me to preach the gospel?
I'm going to go against you, and I'm going to preach the gospel.
And you know what?
People still went and heard them preach.
Amen. Hallelujah.
Yes, sir.
We have an anonymous listener.
Uh -oh.
The anonymous listener says, I am having a struggle with the Reformed Church, where I am
a member, to launch open -air preaching events.
It's not that they are technically opposed to such a thing, but there just seems to be apathy,
and there seems to be a relegation of these things to a much lower level of
importance than the preaching that occurs within the gathered assembly in the four walls
of our church building.
What do you think are the primary reasons why churches today are not involved in open
-air preaching?
That's excellent.
I think one of the things he already answered for himself, there's apathy, there's perhaps even laziness,
or not to slander pastors that aren't involved in it.
Many pastors, especially if they are in growing congregations,
they just don't have time themselves, and they're waiting for somebody qualified to step up
to do that kind of a thing.
But what do you think, and in fact, especially in your own experience of
having conversations with people, what do you think the most primary reasons churches aren't
doing this?
Right.
So, I like how you gave them the benefit of the doubt to begin with.
I would want to know if this anonymous listener is a
pastor or not, so I'm going to answer this kind of a two -pronged approach.
I think a lot of doctrines of grace affirming churches have a functional
Arminianism when it comes to
being skittish about the validity of open -air preaching.
You'll hear them say, well, it may not be effective, it may push people away.
And if we believe that God has an elect that are drawn by the preaching of the
gospel, that ought to give us further emphasis to obey
Romans 10.
How would they hear unless there's a preacher?
How would they preach unless they're a saint?
So, it's my personal belief that preachers ought to be sent out,
commissioned by their local churches to preach the gospel.
That's one thing I wanted to make sure of your opinion on, is that
the best of the Calvinists that I know that are heavily involved in open -air preaching,
do not believe that mavericks should just be going out and doing it without the approval
and the call of their own churches.
Right.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
One of the things I would say, if you're not a
pastor, Mr. Anonymous, I'm going to assume you're a man,
is that one of the things you can do, in fact, I think the best thing you
can do is be the best church member in the church that's not a pastor.
Be there for every Bible study.
Get there early.
Get there early before the service.
Be at every prayer meeting.
Love the church.
Do the work of a pastor without being a pastor.
And then say, hey, Brother Pastor, I
would really like to invite you to come watch me open -air preach.
And say, I want you to see where my heart is.
You know I love the church, and I want
you to see exactly what I want to do.
And after seeing it with his own eyes, he or
they, if you have a plurality of pastors, are much more likely
to either bless your ministry outright and say, keep on doing this, or say to
you, hey, Brother, we know you love the church.
Here are some ways that we want to bless it, but we want to see these
improvements.
Or they could say, hey, Brother, we do not think you're called to this ministry as
your pastors.
And if they say that, because you love your pastors and your local church, accept
it.
That doesn't mean you'll never be called to it, but you may not be called to it right now.
We have to go to our final break, Brother, and you can pick up where you left off.
If anybody has a question, I strongly urge you to send it in immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.
ChrisArnson at gmail .com.
Don't go away.
We'll be right back with Pastor Ed Romine and the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon,
right after these messages from our sponsors.
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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in
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We're back with our guest today, Ed Romine.
And, Ed, I don't know if you were finished saying what you were saying before we had to interrupt you and go to the
final break.
But if not, I'll go to another listener question.
Yes, sir, I was for the most part, so we can go to another listener.
It was a good time.
Okay, we have another anonymous listener who says, I believe one of the reasons why
Reformed churches may not be so frequently involved in such things as open -air
preaching is that, unfortunately, many Reformed….
Further, you've gone out really bad.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
That's interesting.
I can hear you perfectly.
It might have something to do with the storm.
I don't know.
Can you hear me now?
Okay.
Can you hear me?
I can.
Yes, sir.
Okay, and I just heard a loud thunderclap, so that could be it.
The anonymous person was saying that one of the reasons he or she believes
that Reformed churches shy away from open -air preaching
is that, unfortunately, many Reformed churches and pastors do not want
to be associated or in any way resemble Charismatics, Pentecostals, and Arminians, and
they are doing the bulk of this.
How do you respond to that?
That's an excellent question, and obviously, just because people who disagree with us are
dominating something, that shouldn't be a reason for us to retreat from it if it's biblical.
That's right.
We should be even more concerned with being a dominant participant in those things.
Right, that's exactly.
And that segues well into the second lecture, which is entitled Remarks
Their Own, which I spend a bunch of time in, in the pedagogy section,
where Spurgeon just gives practical hints on how to do it.
One of the things that's very pertinent for this question that he says is,
don't scream your lungs out.
Nobody wants to listen to a raving lunatic, essentially.
You want to project your voice and preach with power, but you don't want to be
perceived as one who is just mad at the world and hates humanity.
And it's like they use an example of a bad open -air preacher,
Jesse Morel, who seems to delight in
telling sinners that they are going to hell.
Just like the Westboro Baptist Church.
Right, right.
Who, unfortunately, are professing Calvinists.
Right, confessing 1689ers as well.
That's right.
Right.
And so in the second lecture, Spurgeon
just gives practical hints.
Preach with the wind, not against the wind, so that the wind can carry your voice.
And preach in a winsome way because you want sinners to come to the Lord
Jesus Christ.
And when he says winsome, he's not saying downplay truths of
sin and the truths of man's need for repentance and faith.
But there was a lot of bad open -air preaching even in his day, and he
was counteracting that.
By the way, brother, we've got to have you come back because we're out of time.
I'd love to have you do a part two on this topic.
Oh, I would love to because we didn't even get to the practice section.
Sure.
Well, we'll have you back.
In fact, I will pick a date with you when I get off the air.
And don't forget, folks, the website for my guest's church is
fbcprovo .org.
F -B -C for First Baptist Church.
Provo, P as in Peter, R -O -V as in directory, O .org.
First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.
Thank you so much, Pastor Ed, for doing such a remarkable job.
I'm excited about continuing this conversation with you.
I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions.
Please remember that we need your donations and advertising dollars as soon as possible.
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I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you
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I look forward to hearing from you and your questions for my guest tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.