August 7, 2023 Show with Ed Romine on “The Open Air Preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this seventh day of August, 2023.

I would appreciate the prayers of our listeners today, because here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where my studio is located, we are receiving tornado warnings. So there is a possibility that this live program might be cut short due to a tornado passing.

Through.

I might lose power. I may have to run to the basement of this home. So we will let you know if we hear any further updates on those warnings, and obviously, you will know if we get cut off the air by hearing dead silence.

So please keep us in your prayers. I'm thrilled to have on the program today a first-time guest. His name is Ed Romine, pastor of education and evangelism at First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah. And today we're going to be discussing the open-air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Ed Romine.

Thank you, dear brother. Thank you so much.

First Baptist Church of Provo and Its Evangelistic Context

Well, before we get into your personal testimony and before we get into the theme of our program today, tell our listeners something about First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.

Yes, sir. Well, Provo, Utah is very significant in that Brigham Young University is located here, otherwise known as BYU. And if you know anything about BYU, it is the private university that is owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, more commonly called Mormons by the wider religious community in the world.

And so being the location of BYU, Provo is very much highly LDS or Mormon. It is about 79 LDS here, and it is about 0 .49 Evangelical Christian.

Wow.

So, yeah. So it's the most lost metro area of the United States.

Wow.

And I'm assuming you folks have a vigorous outreach to the Latter-day Saint community?

We do. We do. And this dovetails well into our topic today. My title, as you stated, Brother Chris, is the pastor of education and evangelism. And in particular, we're going to be talking about the evangelism aspect of my role today on your program, Lord willing.

And in so doing, I do a lot of street evangelism, passing out tracks, getting into conversations, doing open-air preaching. And the Lord has just really, really blessed the ministry here. My goal as one of the pastors is to equip our people to want to go out and do street evangelism, to even be very intentional, as it were, to do gospel-centered relational evangelism in the workplace with those whom they can build relationships with, to where that relationship is founded upon being very forthright about the gospel rather than this idea that's commonly purported of, oh, well, you've got to earn the right to share the gospel with somebody through a friendship.

I don't think that's very good or biblical. But a good relational evangelism is just being very upfront about the gospel because we are Christians, and the gospel permeates everything we think about life and the world around us.

Amen.

But I'm sure you would agree that whenever possible, it is a very wise and biblical thing to create friendships, friendships with the lost, specifically, just as our Lord Jesus did, and to use those as opportunities to evangelize and pour upon these folks the love of Christ, not only through evangelizing them, but through good deeds.

Amen.

Amen.

Do you have the FBI flying a helicopter over you right now?

There is a plane flying over.

There's something flying over.

Maybe it's a UFO. Those have been in the news a lot lately, right?

Yes, they have been. What is the primary theological basis of First Baptist Church of Provo?

Broadly speaking, we would consider ourselves Baptists who are Calvinists. Our official statement of faith is the Abstract of Principles, which is the first document of the Southern Baptist Convention that is very Calvinistic.

Personally, I affirm and confess the London Baptist Confession of 1689, but we are not a 1689 Reformed Baptist Church.

I understand.

Yeah, we don't require for church membership for somebody to sign onto that document.

Right, and when I, by the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, was saved out of Roman Catholicism and entered into membership at a Reformed Baptist Church, I was not required to agree with the confession, even though it was a confessional church, but they insisted that I pledge not to undermine those teachings and to recognize that the leadership of that church held to those positions, and I was to respect that and submit to their authority in those things.

But they recognized that sanctification is a process, and it may take years for some people to grasp the doctrines of grace and embrace them personally. Thankfully, it only took a couple of months for our Lord to show mercy on me in that area and open my eyes to these teachings.

Right.

So I just wanted to say that because not all confessional churches, some may, but not all confessional churches insist that a candidate for baptism and membership believe in its entirety the London Baptist Confession of Faith, or even the Westminster if you're a Presbyterian or the Three Forms of Unity if you are a Continental Reformed brother or.

Sister. Right.

Go ahead.

Right.

And we're much the same way in that we have members of our church who wouldn't even consider themselves Calvinistic or adherence to the doctrines of grace, but when you live in Provo, Utah, you can't be too picky because it's not like the Bible Belt South where there's a gospel preaching church on every corner.

Yeah, and I'm originally from New York, and we're pretty much in the same boat in a different way, not that we're saturated with Mormons. That would be a minority of the population there. But we have obviously, we are notorious in New York for being saturated with leftists and also a very diverse religious makeup in New York.

Yeah. Isn't the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses headquartered in New York?

Yes, it was in Brooklyn, and I'd have to check if it's still in Brooklyn. I know they moved their exact location in Brooklyn, but I don't know if they left Brooklyn entirely. I'd have to look that up.

They may still be in New York State, though.

Okay, okay. Oh, New York City, okay.

Yeah, Brooklyn is one of the five boroughs of New York City, even though technically it's on Long Island where I am from, because you don't cross a bridge to get from Long Island to Brooklyn. It's part of the same thing.

And so is Queens, for that matter. I just wanted to make sure our listeners have your email address for First Baptist Church of Provo. It's fbcprovo .org, F-B-C for First Baptist Church, Provo, P-R-O-V as in victory, O, .org, First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.

Ed Romine’s Salvation Testimony and Early Life

And now, as I hinted at earlier, we have a tradition here on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, whenever we have a first-time guest, we request of that guest to give a summary of their salvation testimony that would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised, and what kind of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to themselves and saved them.

So I'd love to hear your story.

Yes, sir. Well, it'd be a joy to share it. So I know you can see me. The listeners cannot. But if you were to be able to watch our video, you could see, as Brother Chris can't hear, that I am in an electric wheelchair.

I was born with cerebral palsy. And if you've heard the name Justin Peters...

He is a good friend.

Yes. I love Justin. He's one of my best friends. We both have the same...

Yes.

We both have the same disability, cerebral palsy. And I tell him every so often, Brother, you're the good-looking version of me. And he just laughs. And, you know, I, dear listener, was raised by my grandparents.

And what I tell people all the time is that they were C &E Christians. C &E standing for Christmas and Easter. So they would ship me off to vacation Bible school sometimes during the summer when I was a little kid.

And I always personally hated vacation Bible schools because all the activities, at least back in the 90s, presupposed that you could sing and dance. You wanted to be all happy-clappy and things of that nature.

And in so doing, my experience at church was limited to those things, just the holidays and the vacation Bible school. And you know how those can oftentimes be run. Not all of them. A well-meaning Sunday school teacher and maybe even the pastor will say, well, kids, you don't want to go to hell, do you?

And of course, no kid wants to go to hell. So there were a couple times I can remember raising my hand to quote-unquote accept Jesus into my heart. So they would get a letter. My grandparents would get a letter saying that I did that.

You know, that didn't mean too much. I didn't know what I was doing. And as well-intentioned as those VBS teachers were, I would say now that the methods that they were using were not the best. And I don't think it's wise to do that sort of thing.

But that being said, I didn't really grow up in a Christian home. I wouldn't say that at all. But they taught me general truths about God that every American, at least back in the 90s, would have agreed with, such as God is good.

God created. God is all-powerful. But they also taught me things that were not good at all, such as because I had several palsy, because I'm disabled, I would die and go to heaven and become one of God's angels.

Looking back on that now, that's got multiple theological problems with it. But that's what they taught me. So I can remember as far back as six, seven years old, thinking, God, if you're good, and if you created everything, and you're all-powerful, why in the world did you create me with a disability?

And I remember from a young age just resenting God because of that. And I can also remember at a young age just having this inclination and fascination towards dark things. Towards demonic things. And I don't know exactly where that came from.

We're all inclined to certain sins, I think. And for me, mine was with a fascination towards dark things. And demonic things. I remember I would actually scare my grandpa because he would ask me sometimes, Son, why are you fascinated with the devil?

Why are you fascinated with demonic things? When I was growing up, Brother Chris, Christmas was not my favorite holiday. Even though I enjoyed the gifts that I got and all that good stuff, my favorite holiday was actually Halloween.

And I didn't just enjoy it for like trick-or-treating and candy, but I enjoyed it for like all the blood, guts, and dark and demonic things. And it got to the point to where they actually called in a local pastor to talk to me about it because they were so scared.

And that didn't really do anything for me. Fast forward to the age of 14. Both of my grandparents who had raised me, my grandmother and my step-grandfather, they were like my mom and dad. And they both died six months apart from each other from lung cancer.

So to kind of put this on a timeline, I was born in 1990. By about 1996, 1997, I really began to not question God's existence. I never struggled with that. I knew he existed. I just hated him. Like I said, I was like, God, why did you make me with a disability?

Why did you do that? So fast forward to 2004, about 13, 14 years old, depending on the month, my grandparents died from lung cancer. Both of them diagnosed six months apart from each other. They were heavy smokers.

And I grew up with them smoking in the house and all that stuff. And so they died around that time. And that just sent me off into a rage, Brother Chris. So I decided to delve in more deeply into demonic things.

And I used to go into all the details of what that was like. And I don't really do that anymore because I find that the Christian community has an unhealthy fascination with the occult. And so all that to say, a lot of weird, weird, spiritual, supernatural things happened to me.

Because as far back as I could remember, I always felt more spiritually sensitive to dark and demonic things to begin with. And so I delved into it more, just developing a fascination with all things dark.

That lasted for about two years. And then at the age of 16, I at that time was getting very, very good on my musical instruments. I had started playing the trombone and the euphonium at the age of 11, 12 years old in beginner band.

And by that time, 2006, I'd gotten pretty good at my instruments as an upperclassman in high school. Good enough to where I could actually teach the lower class.

What is a euphonium?

It is a small tuba. So if you want to Google it real quick, it's E-U-P-H-O-N-I-U-M. E-U-P-H-O... Yeah, E-U-P-H-O-N-I-U-M.

Okay.

And you'll see it looks like a miniature tuba. And it's got a very beautiful sound. I think if you know how to play it well, it's very mellow. And just a wonderful, wonderful instrument. So I played both those.

I ended up majoring... My bachelor's degree is in music. And I majored in music and took lessons on both throughout college. And so my bachelor's degree is actually in music. But going back to my junior year, I met this freshman trombonist who my band director had said, I want you to teach him and prepare him for some competitions.

So I ended up doing that. And this young man ended up both telling me about Jesus and inviting me to church. Yeah, he did both. And he kept nagging at me. And the way he invited me to church, Chris, it was like, hey, we have a church orchestra.

We would love for you to come play in our church orchestra. And so finally, he ended up letting me do that. Looking back on it, I would never allow an unbeliever to participate in that way in our service.

But hey, that's what the Lord uses.

God uses the foolishness of men every day to bring his elect to himself.

That's right. So I ended up going and playing in the church orchestra. And I had to sit there through the service and we would always play the invitation hymn as well. And I don't remember what the preacher preached on.

His name is Roy Ford. He's still pastoring and preaching. But I remember the gospel was clearly explained. And the Lord used that preacher to open up my heart and save my soul about two weeks later.

Praise God. Now, going back to your occult days, and I will not ask you for details or in-depth details, as you said you don't like to do. But were you in any group, gathering, association of people involved in the occult and involved in Satanism and so on?

Yeah, it was all private for me. So yeah. Which I'm glad I wasn't involved in a group. I was telling a brother at our church the other day, I'm glad the Lord got me out early. I was simply a dabbler. You know, if you know the name Doreen Virtue?

I was never into it as deeply as Ms. Doreen was. Especially with the hardcore Satan worship stuff because as you may be aware there's a lot of there's a lot of child sacrifice, a lot of homosexuality that goes on.

I'm so thankful the Lord only allowed me to do it privately.

Do you think that the child sacrifice was something that was really taking place? I remember there was a lot of hype in the 80s, maybe before you were born, you looked like a young guy. There was a lot of hype where there were charlatan Christians making a ton of money by making all kinds of claims such as that there was this very vast and wide and numerically large underground of Satanists and they were sacrificing babies and a lot of these people or at least a significant number of them who were prominent were proven to be charlatans even on that level.

Yeah, are you talking about like the satanic panic.

And like John's heart and things.

Like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think they blew it out of proportion but it does happen. I can't go into details on this but we have a brother in our church that can attest to such things.

Yes, and there was a very well-known Christian stand-up comic Michael Warnke who made all kinds of claims about being a high priest in the church of Satan and that was all disproven as being.

False.

Right, right.

Open-Air Preaching, Calvinism, and Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Well, we are going to our first commercial break and when we come back we are going to sink our teeth into the main theme, the open-air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon. And if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Ed Romine and I'm pronouncing that correctly, am I.

Not? Yes sir, yes sir, yeah. A lot of people say Romaine like the lettuce and it's like there's no A in there so you're exactly.

Right.

When we return we'll be discussing the open-air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon. And this was a dissertation of yours, correct?

Correct, yes sir, yes sir.

What was the degree that the dissertation was for?

Yes, I have a PhD. Oh, praise God.

And so this was your doctoral dissertation?

Yes sir, yes sir.

Oh, praise God. Well, as I said, we would love to have your questions via email at chrisarnsen at gmail .com c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n z-e-n at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away, we'll be right back with Pastor Ed Romaine after these messages from our sponsors.

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So go to royaldiadem .com soon and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with our guest today, Pastor Ed Romine, who is pastor of education and evangelism at First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.

We are discussing his doctoral dissertation theme, which is the open-air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon. If you have a question of your own, please send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Before I even start asking you questions about this theme, we do have Ted in Moundville, Alabama, who has already submitted two questions.

The first is, Mr. Romine's bio on the church website states that he's been a preacher since 2007. Having done the math, I deduced that this means that he was preaching at the age of 17, and he was preaching less than a year after he became a Christian.

How would he respond to the argument that a Christian shouldn't be preaching so soon after his conversion, and that perhaps no Christian at the tender age of 17 should be preaching? Well, just guess what, Ted, that would rule out Charles Haddon Spurgeon, for your information.

Who was a pastor when he was 16. But anyway, if you want to respond. And I understand Ted's point, though, because we're not to hastily lay hands upon a new convert, as the Bible says, and that's in reference to ordaining them.

But go ahead.

Yeah, so I think that's a very fair question. So notice that it says I was a preacher since 2007. I was not a pastor. So if I could delve into some of my post-salvation testimony. After I got saved, it was so radical for me.

My family, my mom, my brother, my mom and my brother. I had a sister, too, but she's nine years younger than me. So she doesn't remember this. They saw a radical change in me. I started carrying a Bible with me to school, reading it during study hall period.

And they noticed that my demeanor was completely changed. I didn't struggle as much with angry outbursts at them. And I mean, honestly, even more so than dabbling into various parts of the occult, I was really just an angry human being.

I did not like other human beings. And they saw a radical change in me that if my mom was still alive today, she would attest to. My brother would tell you that our relationship is a thousand times better.

My preaching was under the very strict oversight of Pastor Roy Ford. He's just the old school Southern Baptist type of the 50s and 60s. If he saw any potential in a preacher boy, he immediately took him under the wing.

And he always thought I was well-spoken ever since he got to know me. So he told me to consider the ministry. And he told me if I ever wanted to preach, all I had to do was ask him for a Sunday night step away from the pulpit, and he would let me preach.

By the way, is Roy still alive?

Yeah, he just turned 80, and he is still pastoring.

Because I'm almost certain that that name rang a loud bell. I'm almost I'm almost certain somebody urged me to interview him. And somehow along the way that that idea slipped through the cracks. Well, now I'm even more committed and determined to try to find.

In fact, you could give me off the air his contact information and perhaps we can invite him on the show.

Yeah, well, Roy is a common name. Roy Ford's a common couple names to put together. I wonder if it's even the same Roy Ford.

In fact, that's where I purchased my first car at 18 years old at the Roy Ford. I'm only kidding.

But that directly answers the question. Tim is his name, right? That's the question.

No, Ted.

Ted.

Sorry.

Sorry, Ted. So, Ted, in general, I agree with you that a teacher of the word should not be a recent convert. So would I do it that way now? No, but that is what happened to me.

Right.

So you've got to understand that even that preaching, though, I was not officially a teacher. And I was under the strict oversight of Pastor Roy Ford. And he gave me a lot of tips. I tell people all the time, even though I've been to seminary, Roy was the one that taught me how to preach.

So that would be the answer. Yes, I did start preaching very soon after conversion. Would I do that now? No, that is what happened to me. But it wasn't even a Charles Spurgeon situation or an H .P. Charles situation where I was thrust into the pastoral office.

I didn't know that happened with H .P. Charles.

Yeah, he started pastoring, I believe, at 16 years old.

Well, Ted has a second question. And this would require a much more brief answer because it's totally off topic. He is asking this from information he saw on your website. What is third wave coffee? Now, obviously, there's an old saying that's very true.

You can't buy coffee. You can only rent it. So I'm hoping and praying that third wave coffee has nothing to do with the third phase after the rental process.

Well, you know what's funny, Ted? I was on Justin Peters' YouTube channel talking about Spurgeon and complementarianism. And Justin made the joke about how I hope I wasn't getting into the third wave charismaticism.

So, yeah, third wave coffee, though, has to do with how you prepare the beans and all that good stuff. So it's a step above, like, Starbucks or a random coffee shop.

And it has nothing to do, I'm hoping, also with that coffee that comes out of a certain nasty orifice of a monkey.

Yeah, right, right. Yes.

There are people that swear by that coffee. I'm not making that up. That's a real thing.

Well, something you learn about people when you're in ministry, as I'm sure you know, is people can be very weird sometimes.

Well, Ted, thanks for the question. In spite of your shocking news that you're no fan of Charles Haddon Spurgeon, I'm very tempted to publicly announce Ted's exact address in Moundville, Alabama, so that my Reformed Baptist hitman can search him down and rough him up a bit in the parking lot, just as if he was under church discipline in a Reformed Baptist church.

That's right.

But I really appreciate that honest question. I could see how the preaching so soon would have done some bad stuff.

And, folks, I just heard a very loud rumble outside. I hope this is not news that I've got to hit the basement. But as I mentioned earlier, there's a tornado warning here. But I will keep conducting the interview until I hear otherwise or until the roof is torn off my studio here.

What made you say to yourself when it came time for you to write a doctoral dissertation? And I know that the goal of a doctoral dissertation is that you're supposed to write on something that nobody has ever written on before in regard to a doctoral dissertation.