August 7, 2023 Show with Ed Romine on “The Open Air Preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson,

19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports

legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning

issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener,

with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on

the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this seventh day of

August, 2023.

I would appreciate the prayers of our listeners today, because here in Carlisle,

Pennsylvania, where my studio is located, we are

receiving tornado warnings.

So there is a possibility that this live program might be cut

short due to a tornado passing.

Through.

I might lose power.

I may have to run to the basement of this home.

So we will let you know if we hear any further updates on those warnings, and

obviously, you will know if we get cut off the air by hearing dead silence.

So please keep us in your prayers.

I'm thrilled to have on the program today a first -time guest.

His name is Ed Romine, pastor of education and evangelism at First Baptist Church of

Provo, Utah.

And today we're going to be discussing the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor

Ed Romine.

Thank you, dear brother. Thank you so much.

Well, before we get into your personal testimony and before we get into the

theme of our program today, tell our listeners something about First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.

Yes, sir.

Well, Provo, Utah is very significant in that

Brigham Young University is located here, otherwise known as

BYU.

And if you know anything about BYU, it is the private

university that is owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints,

more commonly called Mormons by the wider religious community

in the world.

And so being the location of BYU, Provo is

very much highly LDS or Mormon.

It is about 79 LDS here, and it is about

0 .49 Evangelical Christian.

Wow.

So, yeah.

So it's the most lost metro area of the United

States.

Wow.

And I'm assuming you folks have a vigorous outreach to the Latter -day

Saint community?

We do.

We do.

And this dovetails well into our topic today.

My title, as you stated, Brother Chris, is the pastor of education and

evangelism.

And in particular, we're going to be talking about the evangelism aspect of my role

today on your program, Lord willing.

And in so doing, I do a lot of street evangelism, passing out

tracks, getting into conversations, doing open -air preaching.

And the Lord has just really, really blessed the ministry here.

My goal as one of the pastors is to equip our people to want to

go out and do street evangelism, to even be very

intentional, as it were, to do gospel -centered relational

evangelism in the workplace with those whom they can build relationships with,

to where that relationship is founded upon being very forthright about the

gospel rather than this idea that's commonly purported of, oh,

well, you've got to earn the right to share the gospel with somebody through a friendship.

I don't think that's very good or biblical.

But a good relational evangelism is just being very upfront about the

gospel because we are Christians, and the gospel permeates everything

we think about life and the world around us.

Amen.

But I'm sure you would agree that whenever possible, it is a very wise and biblical thing

to create friendships, friendships

with the lost, specifically, just as our Lord Jesus did, and to use those as

opportunities to evangelize and pour upon these folks the love of Christ,

not only through evangelizing them, but through good deeds.

Amen.

Amen.

Do you have the FBI flying a helicopter over you right now?

There is a plane flying over.

There's something flying over.

Maybe it's a UFO.

Those have been in the news a lot lately, right?

Yes, they have been.

What is the primary theological basis of First Baptist Church of

Provo?

Broadly speaking, we would consider ourselves Baptists who are

Calvinists.

Our official statement of faith is the Abstract of Principles,

which is the first document of the Southern Baptist Convention that

is very Calvinistic.

Personally, I affirm and confess the London Baptist Confession

of 1689, but we are not a 1689 Reformed Baptist Church.

I understand.

Yeah, we don't require for church membership for somebody to sign onto that

document.

Right, and when I, by the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ,

was saved out of Roman Catholicism and entered into membership

at a Reformed Baptist Church, I was not required to agree with the

confession, even though it was a confessional church, but they insisted that I

pledge not to undermine those teachings and to recognize that the leadership of that

church held to those positions, and I was to respect that and submit

to their authority in those things.

But they recognized that sanctification is a process, and it

may take years for some people to grasp the doctrines of grace and embrace them

personally.

Thankfully, it only took a couple of months for our Lord to show mercy on me in that area and open

my eyes to these teachings.

Right.

So I just wanted to say that because not all confessional churches, some may, but not all confessional

churches insist that a candidate for baptism and membership believe

in its entirety the London Baptist Confession of Faith, or even the Westminster if you're a Presbyterian or the Three

Forms of Unity if you are a Continental Reformed brother or.

Sister.

Right.

Go ahead.

Right.

And we're much the same way in that we have members of our church

who wouldn't even consider themselves Calvinistic or adherence

to the doctrines of grace, but when you live in Provo,

Utah, you can't be too picky because it's not

like the Bible Belt South where there's a gospel preaching church

on every corner.

Yeah, and I'm originally from New York, and we're pretty much in the same boat in a different way, not that we're saturated

with Mormons.

That would be a minority of the population there.

But we have obviously, we are notorious in New York for being

saturated with leftists and also a very

diverse religious makeup in New York.

Yeah.

Isn't the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses headquartered in New York?

Yes, it was in Brooklyn, and I'd have to check if it's still in Brooklyn.

I know they moved their exact location in Brooklyn, but

I don't know if they left Brooklyn entirely.

I'd have to look that up.

They may still be in New York State, though.

Okay, okay.

Oh, New York City, okay.

Yeah, Brooklyn is one of the five boroughs of New York City, even though technically it's on Long Island

where I am from, because you don't cross a bridge to get from Long Island to Brooklyn.

It's part of the same thing.

And so is Queens, for that matter.

I just wanted to make sure our listeners have your email address for First Baptist Church of Provo.

It's fbcprovo .org, F -B -C for First Baptist Church,

Provo, P -R -O -V as in victory, O, .org, First Baptist Church of Provo,

Utah.

And now, as I hinted at earlier, we have a tradition here on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, whenever we have

a first -time guest, we request of that guest to give a

summary of their salvation testimony that would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they were

raised, and what kind of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives

that drew them to themselves and saved them.

So I'd love to hear your story.

Yes, sir.

Well, it'd be a joy to share it.

So I know you can see me.

The listeners cannot.

But if you were to be able to watch our video, you could see, as Brother Chris can't hear,

that I am in an electric wheelchair.

I was born with cerebral palsy.

And if you've heard the name Justin Peters...

He is a good friend.

Yes.

I love Justin.

He's one of my best friends.

We both have the same...

Yes.

We both have the same disability, cerebral palsy.

And I tell him every so often, Brother, you're the good -looking version of

me.

And he just laughs.

And, you know, I, dear listener, was raised

by my grandparents.

And what I tell people all the time is that they were C &E Christians.

C &E standing for Christmas and Easter.

So they would ship me off to vacation

Bible school sometimes during the summer when I was a little

kid.

And I always personally hated vacation

Bible schools because all the activities, at least back in

the 90s, presupposed that you could sing and dance.

You wanted to be all happy -clappy and things of that nature.

And in so doing, my experience at

church was limited to those things, just the holidays and the vacation Bible

school.

And you know how those can oftentimes be run.

Not all of them.

A well -meaning Sunday school teacher and maybe even the pastor will say, well,

kids, you don't want to go to hell, do you?

And of course, no kid wants to go to hell.

So there were a couple times I can remember raising my hand to quote -unquote

accept Jesus into my heart.

So they would get a letter.

My grandparents would get a letter saying that I did that.

You know, that didn't mean too much.

I didn't know what I was doing.

And as well -intentioned as those VBS teachers were, I

would say now that the methods that they were using were not the best.

And I don't think it's wise to do that sort of thing.

But that being said, I didn't really grow up in a Christian home.

I wouldn't say that at all.

But they taught me general truths about God that

every American, at least back in the 90s, would have agreed with, such

as God is good.

God created.

God is all -powerful.

But they also taught me things that were not good at all, such as

because I had several palsy, because I'm disabled, I would die and go to heaven and

become one of God's angels.

Looking back on that now, that's got multiple theological problems with it.

But that's what they taught me.

So I can remember as far back as six, seven years old, thinking, God, if

you're good, and if you created everything, and you're all -powerful,

why in the world did you create me with a disability?

And I remember from a young age just resenting God because of that.

And I can also remember at a young age just having this

inclination and fascination towards dark things.

Towards demonic things.

And I don't know exactly where that came from.

We're all inclined to certain sins, I think.

And for me, mine was with a fascination towards dark things.

And demonic things.

I remember I would actually scare my grandpa because he

would ask me sometimes, Son, why are you fascinated with

the devil?

Why are you fascinated with demonic things?

When I was growing up, Brother Chris, Christmas was not my favorite holiday.

Even though I enjoyed the gifts that I got and all that good stuff, my favorite

holiday was actually Halloween.

And I didn't just enjoy it for like trick -or -treating and candy, but I enjoyed it for like all

the blood, guts, and dark and demonic things.

And it got to the point to where they actually called in a local pastor

to talk to me about it because they were so scared.

And that didn't really do anything for me.

Fast forward to the age of 14.

Both of my grandparents who had raised me, my grandmother and my step -grandfather,

they were like my mom and dad.

And they both died six months apart from each other

from lung cancer.

So to kind of put this on a timeline, I was born in 1990.

By about 1996, 1997, I really began to

not question God's existence.

I never struggled with that.

I knew he existed.

I just hated him.

Like I said, I was like, God, why did you make me with a disability?

Why did you do that?

So fast forward to 2004, about 13,

14 years old, depending on the month, my grandparents

died from lung cancer.

Both of them diagnosed six months apart from each other.

They were heavy smokers.

And I grew up with them smoking in the house and all that stuff.

And so they died around that time.

And that just sent me off into a rage, Brother Chris.

So I decided to delve in more deeply into

demonic things.

And I used to go into all the details of what that was like.

And I don't really do that anymore because I find that the Christian community has an

unhealthy fascination with the occult.

And so all that to say, a lot of weird, weird,

spiritual, supernatural things happened to me.

Because as far back as I could remember, I always felt more spiritually sensitive to

dark and demonic things to begin with.

And so I delved into it more, just developing a

fascination with all things dark.

That lasted for about two years.

And then at the age of 16, I

at that time was getting very, very good on my musical instruments.

I had started playing the trombone and the euphonium

at the age of 11, 12 years old in beginner band.

And by that time, 2006, I'd gotten pretty good at my

instruments as an upperclassman in high school.

Good enough to where I could actually teach the lower class.

What is a euphonium?

It is a small tuba.

So if you want to Google it real quick, it's E -U -P -H -O -N

-I -U -M.

E -U -P -H -O...

Yeah, E -U -P -H -O -N -I -U -M.

Okay.

And you'll see it looks like a miniature tuba.

And it's got a very beautiful sound.

I think if you know how to play it well, it's very mellow.

And just a wonderful, wonderful instrument.

So I played both those.

I ended up majoring...

My bachelor's degree is in music.

And I majored in music and took lessons on both

throughout college.

And so my bachelor's degree is actually in music.

But going back to my junior year, I met this freshman trombonist

who my band director had said, I want you to teach him and prepare him for some

competitions.

So I ended up doing that.

And this young man ended up both telling me

about Jesus and inviting me to church.

Yeah, he did both.

And he kept nagging at me.

And the way he invited me to church, Chris, it was like, hey, we have a church

orchestra.

We would love for you to come play in our church orchestra.

And so finally, he ended up letting me do that.

Looking back on it, I would never allow an unbeliever to participate in

that way in our service.

But hey, that's what the Lord uses.

God uses the foolishness of men every day to bring his elect

to himself.

That's right.

So I ended up going and playing in the church orchestra.

And I had to sit there through the service and we would always play the invitation

hymn as well.

And I don't remember what the preacher preached on.

His name is Roy Ford.

He's still pastoring and preaching.

But I remember the gospel was clearly explained.

And the Lord used that preacher to open up my heart and save my soul about

two weeks later.

Praise God.

Now, going back to your occult days, and I

will not ask you for details or in -depth details, as you said you don't like to do.

But were you in any group, gathering,

association of people involved in the occult and involved in Satanism and so on?

Yeah, it was all private for me.

So yeah.

Which I'm glad I wasn't involved in a group.

I was telling a brother at our church the other day, I'm glad the Lord got me out early.

I was simply a dabbler.

You know, if you know the name Doreen Virtue?

I was never into it as deeply as Ms. Doreen was.

Especially with the hardcore Satan worship stuff because as you

may be aware there's a lot of there's a lot of child

sacrifice, a lot of homosexuality that goes on.

I'm so thankful the Lord only allowed me to do it privately.

Do you think that the child sacrifice was something that was really taking

place?

I remember there was a lot of hype in the 80s, maybe before you were born,

you looked like a young guy.

There was a lot of hype where there were charlatan Christians making a ton of

money by making all kinds of claims such as

that there was this very vast and wide and numerically large

underground of Satanists and they were sacrificing babies and a lot of these people or at least

a significant number of them who were prominent were proven to be charlatans even on that

level.

Yeah, are you talking about like the satanic panic.

And like John's heart and things.

Like that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I think they blew it out of proportion but it does

happen.

I can't go into details on this but we have

a brother in our church that can attest

to such things.

Yes, and there was a very well -known Christian

stand -up comic Michael Warnke who made all kinds of claims about being a high priest in

the church of Satan and that was all disproven as being.

False.

Right, right.

Well, we are going to our first commercial break and when we come back we are going to sink our

teeth into the main theme, the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

And if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Ed Romine and I'm pronouncing

that correctly, am I.

Not?

Yes sir, yes sir, yeah.

A lot of people say Romaine like the lettuce and it's like there's no A in there so you're

exactly.

Right.

When we return we'll be discussing the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

And this was a dissertation of yours, correct?

Correct, yes sir, yes sir.

What was the degree that the dissertation was for?

Yes, I have a PhD.

Oh, praise God.

And so this was your doctoral dissertation?

Yes sir, yes sir.

Oh, praise God.

Well, as I said, we would love to have your questions via email at chrisarnsen at gmail .com

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n z -e -n at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with Pastor Ed Romaine after these messages from our sponsors.

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We are now back with our guest today, Pastor Ed Romine, who is pastor of education and

evangelism at First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.

We are discussing his doctoral dissertation theme, which is the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon

Spurgeon.

If you have a question of your own, please send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Before I even start asking you questions about this theme, we do have

Ted in Moundville, Alabama, who has already submitted two questions.

The first is, Mr. Romine's bio on the church website states that he's

been a preacher since 2007.

Having done the math, I deduced that this means that he was preaching at the age

of 17, and he was preaching less than a year after he became a Christian.

How would he respond to the argument that a Christian shouldn't be preaching so soon after his conversion,

and that perhaps no Christian at the tender age of 17 should be preaching?

Well, just guess what, Ted, that would rule out Charles Haddon Spurgeon, for your information.

Who was a pastor when he was 16.

But anyway, if you want to respond.

And I understand Ted's point, though, because we're not to hastily lay hands

upon a new convert, as the Bible says, and that's in reference to ordaining them.

But go ahead.

Yeah, so I think that's a very fair question.

So notice that it says I was a preacher since 2007.

I was not a pastor.

So if I could delve into some of my post -salvation testimony.

After I got saved, it was so radical for

me.

My family, my mom, my brother, my mom and my

brother.

I had a sister, too, but she's nine years younger than me.

So she doesn't remember this.

They saw a radical change in me.

I started carrying a Bible with me to school, reading it during study hall

period.

And they noticed that my demeanor was completely changed.

I didn't struggle as much with angry outbursts at them.

And I mean, honestly, even more so than dabbling into various parts

of the occult, I was really just an angry human being.

I did not like other human beings.

And they saw a radical change in me that if my mom was still alive today, she

would attest to.

My brother would tell you that our relationship is a thousand times better.

My preaching was under the very strict oversight of Pastor

Roy Ford.

He's just the old school Southern Baptist type of the

50s and 60s.

If he saw any potential in a preacher boy, he immediately took him under

the wing.

And he always thought I was well -spoken ever since he got

to know me.

So he told me to consider the ministry.

And he told me if I ever wanted to preach, all I had to do

was ask him for a Sunday night step away from the pulpit, and he would let me preach.

By the way, is Roy still alive?

Yeah, he just turned 80, and he is still pastoring.

Because I'm almost certain that that name rang a loud bell.

I'm almost I'm almost certain somebody urged me to interview him.

And somehow along the way that that idea slipped through the cracks.

Well, now I'm even more committed and determined to try to find.

In fact, you could give me off the air his contact information and perhaps we can invite him on the show.

Yeah, well, Roy is a common name.

Roy Ford's a common couple names to put together.

I wonder if it's even the same Roy Ford.

In fact, that's where I purchased my first car at 18 years old at the Roy Ford.

I'm only kidding.

But that directly answers the question.

Tim is his name, right?

That's the question.

No, Ted.

Ted.

Sorry.

Sorry, Ted.

So, Ted, in general, I agree with you that a

teacher of the word should not be a recent convert.

So would I do it that way now?

No, but that is what happened to me.

Right.

So you've got to understand that even that preaching, though, I was not

officially a teacher.

And I was under the strict oversight of Pastor Roy Ford.

And he gave me a lot of tips.

I tell people all the time, even though I've been to seminary, Roy was the one that taught me how to

preach.

So that would be the answer.

Yes, I did start preaching very soon after conversion.

Would I do that now?

No, that is what happened to me.

But it wasn't even a Charles Spurgeon situation or an H .P. Charles situation

where I was thrust into the pastoral office.

I didn't know that happened with H .P. Charles.

Yeah, he started pastoring, I believe, at 16 years old.

Well, Ted has a second question.

And this would require a much more brief answer because it's totally off topic.

He is asking this from information he saw on your website.

What is third wave coffee?

Now, obviously, there's an old saying that's very true.

You can't buy coffee.

You can only rent it.

So I'm hoping and praying that third wave coffee has nothing to do with the third

phase after the rental process.

Well, you know what's funny, Ted?

I was on Justin Peters' YouTube channel talking about Spurgeon and

complementarianism.

And Justin made the joke about how I hope I

wasn't getting into the third wave charismaticism.

So, yeah, third wave coffee, though, has to do with how you prepare the beans and

all that good stuff.

So it's a step above, like, Starbucks or a random

coffee shop.

And it has nothing to do, I'm hoping, also with that coffee that comes out of a certain

nasty orifice of a monkey.

Yeah, right, right. Yes.

There are people that swear by that coffee.

I'm not making that up.

That's a real thing.

Well, something you learn about people when you're in ministry, as I'm sure you know, is

people can be very weird sometimes.

Well, Ted, thanks for the question.

In spite of your shocking news that you're no fan of Charles Haddon Spurgeon,

I'm very tempted to publicly announce Ted's exact

address in Moundville, Alabama, so that my Reformed Baptist hitman can

search him down and rough him up a bit in the parking lot, just as if

he was under church discipline in a Reformed Baptist church.

That's right.

But I really appreciate that honest question.

I could see how the preaching so soon would have done some bad stuff.

And, folks, I just heard a very loud rumble outside.

I hope this is not news that I've got to hit the basement.

But as I mentioned earlier, there's a tornado warning here.

But I will keep conducting the interview until I hear otherwise or until the roof is torn

off my studio here.

What made you say to yourself when it came time for you to write a doctoral dissertation?

And I know that the goal of a doctoral dissertation is that you're supposed to write on something that nobody has

ever written on before in regard to a doctoral dissertation.

I don't know how possible it is to always accomplish that, because there are

no doubt millions of people throughout these centuries who have written doctoral dissertations.

But tell us about that, the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

Yeah.

So just real quickly, a lot of times the way people work around that is that they

will present their doctoral dissertations for the Ph .D. a

different angle on somebody else's position.

So you take, for example, all the different shades of nuance on limited

atonement, for example.

That can be a way that people write a Ph .D. dissertation because it's still

technically a contribution.

They're just saying why somebody is wrong.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So for me, I already mentioned I did my bachelor's in music

on my instruments.

I have a bachelor of arts in music, trombone and euphonium.

And I had every intention of going to get a

master's in music after that.

And providentially, God shut the doors on that for me.

And God opened up the doors for me to go into ministry with

a church's blessing.

And so I ended up getting the master of divinity in biblical

languages and a master of theology in preaching

from the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth.

And while I was working on my master of divinity, I ended up

meeting a young man who was a freshman at the College of Southwestern Baptist

Theological Seminary at the time.

And he got to know me through talking theology.

We found out that we were theologically like -minded.

And he was very much influenced by the ministry of Ray Comfort.

And he said to me, why don't you come out and do evangelism with me?

And I responded to him, well, I don't think I'd be very good at that because I'm

disabled.

I just don't see how that would work.

And Brother Taylor Callen, the young man, said to me, if you want to

come, I will help you get around.

And so Brother Taylor introduced to me the idea of street

evangelism and open air preaching.

And I found out through doing it that I love street evangelism, all

forms of it.

And as I started digging into that world

and finding the reformed wing of that world, the

Calvinistic wing of that world.

No doubt a tiny wing, unfortunately.

Yeah, it's very niche, right?

And so I got involved in that world.

And I had already heard of Charles Spurgeon by this time.

But somebody had mentioned, I think it was at a Sports Fan Outreach

International, that Bill Adams host.

I went to one of those.

And I think somebody had mentioned there, you know, Charles Spurgeon was an advocate of

open air preaching.

And I remember thinking, oh, really?

So I looked it up and lo and behold, there it was.

There was two lectures there.

And so I got to doing some digging.

And, you know, this is near the coattail ends of what's called the Young Restless

Reform Movement, 2013 -2014.

You know, Mark Driscoll was still big at the time.

You know, looking back on it, you know, the YRR movement was coming to an end.

So there was a lot of people that wanted to have a Spurgeonic ministry.

And then I started realizing that nobody had written about

Spurgeon's open air preaching, but everybody wanted to have a Spurgeonic ministry.

And so I did research on it, and I found out, like, wow, this is a

big part of Spurgeon's thinking.

And so I ended up doing the MDiv and the THM through Midwestern.

And then I did another THM in pedagogy, which is the art of

teaching through Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

And then I did the PhD proper and wrote the dissertation.

So I have Taylor Cowan to credit for getting me into

open air preaching.

And I think it might have been him that actually told me about Spurgeon, too, but my memory fails me

on that.

Well, it seems that you have at least five degrees less than I do.

I'm only kidding.

I don't have any degrees.

Other than an associate's degree for art in a community college

that, unfortunately, where I was a student before I was saved.

So I treated that really just like a three -year party.

It took me three years to get a two -year degree.

But anyway.

Well, brother, I'll tell you, I don't think too much about the fact that I have a

doctorate.

I mean, you can see my bed because you can see where I'm at.

And guess where my PhD is?

It's under my bed.

So I don't think too much about it.

Not that I don't care about the work or anything.

But, you know, I tell my church family, please don't call me doctor.

I'm just Ed.

And then, of course, they do whenever I don't know something.

So, yes, I have to constantly repeat to my audience, I am not a doctor.

I just play one in my spare time in my neighborhood.

I have to go to our midway break right now.

And, folks, the midway break is always longer than the other breaks in the show.

Because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the

show.

Because the FCC requires of them to localize this show geographically to Lake City,

Florida, where they are located.

And they do that with their own public service announcements and other local things.

While they do that, we simultaneously air our globally aired commercials.

Please use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can.

So that you can more successfully and frequently respond to our

advertisers.

And hopefully that will mean sometimes you'll buy their products and use their services.

But when you can't do that, please at least contact our advertisers and thank them for sponsoring the show.

Because we absolutely positively depend upon our advertisers to exist.

So if you love this show and are grateful that there are people who actually spend their hard -earned money to keep us on the air,

please thank them for that.

And also send in your questions to Ed Romine at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Ed Romine.

Do not go away.

The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023, The Gospel at

War.

September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

Featuring Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian,

A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity.

The debate topic, Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable Identity for a Member of Christ's Church?

So come join us for the sixth Future of Christendom conference.

The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day Saturday,

with an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the Independence Reformed Bible Church.

This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching, with a theme of the Gospel at War in many areas of our culture, including

government schools, the Supreme Court, missions, feminism, and even the church pulpits.

Head to futureofchristendom .org.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I

are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd, on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching,

writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

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Chris Arnson, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers that strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

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And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes,

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in

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Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

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He who never quotes will never be quoted.

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Also, please do not forget that Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, my very dear friend

since 1995, is coming here to Pennsylvania, Lancaster County, to

be more specific.

He is one of the speakers, the keynote speaker, at the Future of

Christendom Conference, a conference that is being arranged by yours truly and also the

Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society.

And not only is there going to be a three -day conference from September 15th through the 17th, that's

Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, there is also going to be a debate on Saturday, September

16th, starting at 3 .30 p .m., between Dr. White and Dr. Gregory Coles,

who identifies himself as a gay Christian.

The theme of that debate is, is gay Christian a biblically acceptable identity for a

member of Christ's church?

So please, if you would like to attend any of those events, the three -day conference and

the debate, go to futureofchristendom .org today,

futureofchristendom .org to register.

Finally, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound,

doctrinally solid church, like First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah, no matter where you live on the planet Earth,

I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches spanning the globe, and I've helped many people in our audience in all

parts of the world find churches, sometimes just within a few minutes from where they live, that they didn't

even know existed.

So, if you are in that predicament, you don't have a biblically faithful church home, or you are a member, send me an email, no matter

where in the world you live, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in your questions to Ed Romine on the open -air preaching of Charles Sattin Spurgeon,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And one of the first things that comes to mind, Pastor Ed,

in regard to this theme of your doctoral dissertation, is that it is an

excellent way of not only proving to Reformed people themselves, but especially those

who are outside of the Reformed faith, outside of the church that

identifies itself as Calvinistic, or believers in the doctrines of sovereign grace,

there is a stereotype that Calvinism would

absolutely remove that kind of passion from Christians to not

only present and declare and preach and teach the gospel within the four walls of

a church, but to actually venture out into the public square and other places outside where

many lost people are gathered in order to, in an open -air fashion, preach the gospel,

knowing that a notable figure, a hero of the Reformed faith, who is actually a

hero of people outside of the Reformed faith as well, there are vehement anti -Calvinists who are

fundamentalists who claim to love Charles Sattin Spurgeon, I wonder sometimes if they've ever read what he wrote, but

it is a good proof that this is not antithetical, this open -air preaching is not

antithetical to Calvinism, am I right?

That is correct, that is correct.

And given to the meat of our show today,

my dissertation, the meat of it, the subtitle of my

dissertation is called, The Pedagogy and Practice of

Charles Sattin Spurgeon's Open -Air Preaching.

By the way, I absolutely, a local Polish restaurant, I absolutely love pedagogy and

sour cream.

I'm sorry.

It deals with the art of how to teach, and I alluded before the break to

the fact that Spurgeon has two lectures dedicated to open -air

preaching.

Those lectures are found in volume two of Lectures to My Students, and

normally when you get a publication of Lectures to My Students nowadays, it's one big

volume, but originally it's two volumes, and it's found

in the second volume, two lectures.

The first lecture is called A Sketch of Its History, Open -Air Preaching,

A Sketch of Its History, and the second lecture is called Open -Air

Preaching Remarks Their Own.

First off, I just think it's significant that that's one of the very few topics

that Spurgeon devotes two lectures on in his big ministry

book called Lectures to My Students.

If you're not familiar with what Lectures to My Students is, the first

parachurch ministry that Spurgeon founded and the one that was dearest to his heart

was the Pastors College, P -A -S -T -O -R -S

apostrophe, college.

What that was was it was an educational institution in order to

train ministers who were too poor financially to go to an

official Church of England institution, and he wanted to train men who

were already doing the work of the ministry.

In fact, his first -ever student, who was named Medhurst,

T .W. Medhurst, he found out on the streets

doing open -air preaching, and he thought Mr. Medhurst had a

wonderful zeal, but he lacked theological knowledge and precision in his

preaching.

So Spurgeon, being young himself, took him under his wing and

taught him how to do theology and how to be a

good preacher both in the streets and in the pulpit.

Well, with the Pastors College, every Friday

afternoon, Spurgeon would give his own lectures to his

students, and they were more casual in nature because it was the end of the week,

Friday, and a lot of Lectures to My Students, if you've ever read it, there's a lot

of humor within his lectures.

They're very laid -back, very casual, but it's still very Spurgeonic in

the way that he lectures and the way that he outlines things, and the

open -air preaching lectures are two of the lectures within the Lectures to My

Students on Friday afternoon.

And the lecture entitled, A Sketch of Its History, is

exactly what it sounds like.

So Spurgeon goes back to Old Testament times and

traces open -air preaching from the Old Testament, beginning with what

he argues was Noah, who was a preacher of righteousness, according to

the New Testament.

So he said Noah was the first open -air preacher that we know of.

Then he traces the Old Testament all the way through Noah,

Moses, the prophets primarily.

Then he gets into the New Testament with our Lord Jesus, who in

Mark 1 .15 says, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

And a lot of people miss the fact, where did he start preaching that?

Well, the text says he was walking along the seashore, so

technically that is an open -air preaching event.

And open -air preaching, broadly speaking, is any preaching that

happens outside the four walls of a building.

So it can be in a field, it can be on the street proper, it can be on a college campus,

it can be on the beach.

I know Ray Comfort does a lot of beach preaching.

And the first ever sermon that we know of given by Jesus in Mark

was the walking along the seashore saying, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at

hand.

And then Spurgeon traces through the Book of Acts

all the open -air preaching that happened in the Book of Acts, most famously Morris

Hill in Acts 17, I believe.

And then once he's done with the New Testament, he goes into the early church,

he goes into the pre -Reformation or Reformation periods, and then

he goes into the Puritans, and then he traces his open -air

preaching all the way up to his current day in the 19th century.

And what I find most interesting is that he even mentions closer to

his present day the old Methodist circuit riders

that would often preach in the open -air on horseback.

They would go from town to town and preach.

And then another thing that's very interesting, Spurgeon believed that

the Reformation fires were stoked by actually Catholic friars

who preached in the open -air.

If you want to know more about that, you can actually read the book itself because I

delve into some of the sources by men like J .H. Merrill and

Ogbegun.

I don't know if I'm pronouncing that name right because it's French.

But he goes into a lot of sources that in the

lecture are unsighted, so a lot of my doctoral work actually

goes into giving academic citations to a lot of Spurgeon's

references that weren't there in the publication as we have it

in lectures to my students.

Was Spurgeon referring to in regard to those Catholic friars who in his

opinion sparked the Reformation?

I'm assuming they sparked the Reformation because they were in the open -air declaring and

preaching something that was contrary to the official dogma of Rome.

Yes, he did say that a lot of the old open -air

preachers in the Catholic Church were actually Dominican

friars who Spurgeon and other 19th century preachers

say actually went against the current Pope of the day.

Well, it's good to know that some of the Dominicans did that contrary to Johann Tetzel who was a Dominican

and he did nothing of the sort obviously.

He was bilking the public financially to raise money

to build St. Peter's Cathedral and was

scaring them using tactics of threats that if they did not give alms

to the Catholic Church, their loved ones would be troubled.

Yes, what's the old saying?

A coin in the coffer clings to self in purgatory springs.

That's right.

Let's see.

The first question is, I understand that the Wesleys and George Whitefield

had confrontations with the established Church of England who opposed

their open -air preaching.

Did Spurgeon face the same thing over a century later?

No, he did not.

The 19th century England under Queen Victoria was

pretty free for things like that.

And there was even, I actually bring this up at the end of my

dissertation for suggestions for further research.

There were actually clergy of the Church of England, the

established church today, that also did open -air preaching.

So some doctoral student ought to roll up their sleeves and take

that on as a research project because I couldn't find any

documentation of what the Church of England preaching was like.

But to answer your question, 19th century England was much freer

than what Whitefield and Wesley faced.

At least what I would say right now.

I'm actually working on a second book on the preaching of George Whitefield.

And so I'll probably be able to delve into that more and give them a better

comparative analysis in a year or two.

So just so you know, Brother Chris, because of my CP, I tap

with this finger.

I've never been able to do the home row keys just because my hands are too stiff.

And for those of you that are just listening, I'm holding up my right

corner finger.

And so it takes me a little bit of time to type out anything, whether it's a text message

or an article for a journal or whatnot.

You probably still type faster than I do using my two

index fingers.

I don't know how to type.

People use ten fingers to type.

I only use my two index fingers.

And when I'm texting back and forth with people, especially if they're young, they will return

five texts before I even have a chance to respond to their first one.

Well, I'm right there with you.

And I'm not as young as I used to be.

I'm in my 30s now.

So the real young people of today, they think I'm old.

So I always tell people age is relative to where you're at.

Now, the listener was asking about a comparison between the

Wesleys and Whitfields and Spurgeon a century later,

where the Wesleys and Whitfields had opposition to their open air preaching from the Church of England.

Do you know the primary reasons why the Church of England opposed them?

Was it primarily superstition, that there was something unique about the

building of a church where they were expected to confine

their proclamation of the gospel?

What was the deal with that?

I can't remember who it was, but I remember hearing stories.

It might have been the Wesleys, where the members of the church actually

unleashed or opened up the gates where there were

herds of cattle and chased them into the areas where

possibly the Wesleys were preaching just to disrupt the whole thing.

I don't know if that's folklore or not.

Yeah, yeah.

I can't speak to the whole cattle thing.

But what I can say, and I'll be able to, Lord willing, give a more fleshed out answer later,

is that we've got to understand that for those who

baptized infants back in the day, to

be a part of a non -conformist group,

which this would have been the same.

So the Church of England was the established church of the day.

That meant that they were the state church.

And the Wesleys and Whitfield were members of that church.

Right, right.

And what you essentially have is the

established Church of England, and you have Roman Catholicism, and then you have what's

called the non -conformists.

The non -conformists were Baptists, Presbyterians, Congregationalists,

Methodists, primarily.

There were others, like the Quakers, but primarily those groups.

And the reason why they were called non -conformists is because they didn't conform to the religion of the

day, the Book of Common Prayer.

And so for them to

not be a part of the Church of England, this was true in Spurgeon's day, but more so in

Whitfield and Wesley's day.

You're not only making a theological statement, you're also being a

turd bucket politically.

You know what I mean?

That is the first time that the phrase turd bucket has ever been uttered on this

program.

Well, I just said the first thing that came to my mind.

It has been included in hate mail to me personally.

Well, that was not directed at you.

Oh, goodness.

But, you know, essentially they would have seen those as

going against the grain, being a troublemaker, right?

Right.

And so it caused a lot of political pressure,

especially for men that were a part of the Church that got dejected.

Now saying, well, you won't let me preach in the established churches.

I'm going to go out because people still want to hear my message.

So they were saying, you're going to not allow me to preach the gospel?

I'm going to go against you, and I'm going to preach the gospel.

And you know what?

People still went and heard them preach.

Amen. Hallelujah.

Yes, sir.

We have an anonymous listener.

Uh -oh.

The anonymous listener says, I am having a struggle with the Reformed Church, where I am

a member, to launch open -air preaching events.

It's not that they are technically opposed to such a thing, but there just seems to be apathy,

and there seems to be a relegation of these things to a much lower level of

importance than the preaching that occurs within the gathered assembly in the four walls

of our church building.

What do you think are the primary reasons why churches today are not involved in open

-air preaching?

That's excellent.

I think one of the things he already answered for himself, there's apathy, there's perhaps even laziness,

or not to slander pastors that aren't involved in it.

Many pastors, especially if they are in growing congregations,

they just don't have time themselves, and they're waiting for somebody qualified to step up

to do that kind of a thing.

But what do you think, and in fact, especially in your own experience of

having conversations with people, what do you think the most primary reasons churches aren't

doing this?

Right.

So, I like how you gave them the benefit of the doubt to begin with.

I would want to know if this anonymous listener is a

pastor or not, so I'm going to answer this kind of a two -pronged approach.

I think a lot of doctrines of grace affirming churches have a functional

Arminianism when it comes to

being skittish about the validity of open -air preaching.

You'll hear them say, well, it may not be effective, it may push people away.

And if we believe that God has an elect that are drawn by the preaching of the

gospel, that ought to give us further emphasis to obey

Romans 10.

How would they hear unless there's a preacher?

How would they preach unless they're a saint?

So, it's my personal belief that preachers ought to be sent out,

commissioned by their local churches to preach the gospel.

That's one thing I wanted to make sure of your opinion on, is that

the best of the Calvinists that I know that are heavily involved in open -air preaching,

do not believe that mavericks should just be going out and doing it without the approval

and the call of their own churches.

Right.

That's exactly right.

That's exactly right.

One of the things I would say, if you're not a

pastor, Mr. Anonymous, I'm going to assume you're a man,

is that one of the things you can do, in fact, I think the best thing you

can do is be the best church member in the church that's not a pastor.

Be there for every Bible study.

Get there early.

Get there early before the service.

Be at every prayer meeting.

Love the church.

Do the work of a pastor without being a pastor.

And then say, hey, Brother Pastor, I

would really like to invite you to come watch me open -air preach.

And say, I want you to see where my heart is.

You know I love the church, and I want

you to see exactly what I want to do.

And after seeing it with his own eyes, he or

they, if you have a plurality of pastors, are much more likely

to either bless your ministry outright and say, keep on doing this, or say to

you, hey, Brother, we know you love the church.

Here are some ways that we want to bless it, but we want to see these

improvements.

Or they could say, hey, Brother, we do not think you're called to this ministry as

your pastors.

And if they say that, because you love your pastors and your local church, accept

it.

That doesn't mean you'll never be called to it, but you may not be called to it right now.

We have to go to our final break, Brother, and you can pick up where you left off.

If anybody has a question, I strongly urge you to send it in immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pastor Ed Romine and the open -air preaching of Charles Haddon Spurgeon,

right after these messages from our sponsors.

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We're back with our guest today, Ed Romine.

And, Ed, I don't know if you were finished saying what you were saying before we had to interrupt you and go to the

final break.

But if not, I'll go to another listener question.

Yes, sir, I was for the most part, so we can go to another listener.

It was a good time.

Okay, we have another anonymous listener who says, I believe one of the reasons why

Reformed churches may not be so frequently involved in such things as open -air

preaching is that, unfortunately, many Reformed….

Further, you've gone out really bad.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

That's interesting.

I can hear you perfectly.

It might have something to do with the storm.

I don't know.

Can you hear me now?

Okay.

Can you hear me?

I can.

Yes, sir.

Okay, and I just heard a loud thunderclap, so that could be it.

The anonymous person was saying that one of the reasons he or she believes

that Reformed churches shy away from open -air preaching

is that, unfortunately, many Reformed churches and pastors do not want

to be associated or in any way resemble Charismatics, Pentecostals, and Arminians, and

they are doing the bulk of this.

How do you respond to that?

That's an excellent question, and obviously, just because people who disagree with us are

dominating something, that shouldn't be a reason for us to retreat from it if it's biblical.

That's right.

We should be even more concerned with being a dominant participant in those things.

Right, that's exactly.

And that segues well into the second lecture, which is entitled Remarks

Their Own, which I spend a bunch of time in, in the pedagogy section,

where Spurgeon just gives practical hints on how to do it.

One of the things that's very pertinent for this question that he says is,

don't scream your lungs out.

Nobody wants to listen to a raving lunatic, essentially.

You want to project your voice and preach with power, but you don't want to be

perceived as one who is just mad at the world and hates humanity.

And it's like they use an example of a bad open -air preacher,

Jesse Morel, who seems to delight in

telling sinners that they are going to hell.

Just like the Westboro Baptist Church.

Right, right.

Who, unfortunately, are professing Calvinists.

Right, confessing 1689ers as well.

That's right.

Right.

And so in the second lecture, Spurgeon

just gives practical hints.

Preach with the wind, not against the wind, so that the wind can carry your voice.

And preach in a winsome way because you want sinners to come to the Lord

Jesus Christ.

And when he says winsome, he's not saying downplay truths of

sin and the truths of man's need for repentance and faith.

But there was a lot of bad open -air preaching even in his day, and he

was counteracting that.

By the way, brother, we've got to have you come back because we're out of time.

I'd love to have you do a part two on this topic.

Oh, I would love to because we didn't even get to the practice section.

Sure.

Well, we'll have you back.

In fact, I will pick a date with you when I get off the air.

And don't forget, folks, the website for my guest's church is

fbcprovo .org.

F -B -C for First Baptist Church.

Provo, P as in Peter, R -O -V as in directory, O .org.

First Baptist Church of Provo, Utah.

Thank you so much, Pastor Ed, for doing such a remarkable job.

I'm excited about continuing this conversation with you.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

Please remember that we need your donations and advertising dollars as soon as possible.

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I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

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I look forward to hearing from you and your questions for my guest tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.