The Twitter Mob Doubles Down on Dishonesty, Genesis 50 and Compatibilism

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:33

Greetings welcome to the dividing line I'm gonna try to make this quick at the beginning as much as I possibly can though It is important to do so on the last program.

00:41

We got out ahead of a slander campaign That had launched against me

00:47

It seems to happen every once in a while the same suspects are normally the ones involved nothing on the screen again rich and I Sort of figured that was pretty much it

00:58

We put it to bed it was it's it's not this is I'm calling this the nothing burger controversy

01:05

There there's there's nothing here There is absolutely nothing here. This this is made up whole cloth from the start

01:13

If this is the best you've got I mean my goodness Don't I make mistakes on every program that you could find some way of twisting into something worthwhile?

01:21

I mean, this is just pathetic you guys have It's like you're always sitting around in lockdown and you all were in some secret

01:29

Facebook group going I'm bored What can we come up with well here? Let's twist.

01:35

This is so bad that it's it's laughable. It really is But it's it's illustrative.

01:43

We got to deal with it because of the fact that This kind of stuff takes on a life of its own.

01:48

It just gets believed because people want to believe stupid things And dishonest people promote dishonest things it's just so you got it you got to put the facts out there and Hope that those who are actually believers

02:02

Will repent of their promoting falsehoods and things like that and then the rest is there's nothing you can do about it

02:09

So real quick recap for those of you who missed it and a lot of people did a lot of people very busy fully understandable on Tuesday morning a

02:19

Meme started running around Started getting stuff My fellow elders contacted me one of my fellow elders contacted me

02:27

What's this all about? Someone put out the lie and it is a lie. It's documentable lie

02:33

It has been documented so anybody who repeats it is either knowingly or unknowingly repeating a lie

02:39

Here's here's how a guy named Jake Robbie. R -a -a -b -e put it quote

02:45

James White owns Covid widower with facts and logic facts and logic are in all caps

02:51

Sets him straight with hard truths all caps is definitely not something

02:56

I bet on in the Twitter pool this morning So there was the original thing Paul Flynn was promoting it over in Ireland Here's a

03:06

Jack Robbie and Other people jumped in on it.

03:11

So even on April 27th Jacob Denhollander Yes, Jacob Denhollander the Jacob Denhollander James keeps finding newer bigger sharks sharks to jump every day

03:21

Well, who knew I mean, I don't follow him. So I don't see what nasty things he's saying, but there you go

03:27

And then some people are asking what in the world is going on good old Calvinist Batman How can his fellow elders not see that as lovelessness?

03:37

Now I was sent to this thread and it gets much worse Profane and nasty and insulting and so on so forth down below just what you expect from this crowd, but I was sent to this yesterday because What I did on the program was

03:54

I went back and I showed the actual thread and I showed that the man

04:02

That what had happened is I had posted a tweet And I my tweet had said this is on April 26th are a sufficient number of people waking up to the reality that the panic

04:13

Of 2020 which has always been political in nature is now openly and clearly political in its

04:18

Motivations and that the costs in human life will dwarf anything the worst models ever predicted and so I'm talking about worldwide

04:25

I'm talking about famine. I'm talking about disease not kovat 19, but other diseases.

04:31

I'm talking about the shutting down of Medical research into into childhood diseases, which is not going on right now because everything's in this one area one thing

04:40

I'm talking about the possibilities of so destabilizing a social order around the world that you'll have war and hence a lot more people dying because of the massive

04:51

Overreaction that has taken place globally in regards to kovat 19 so the next day a

05:01

Fellow pops in and talks about how His He says my 49 year old ex -wife of 19 years passed last week now,

05:13

I'm not exactly sure what that means but Basically, he says you have no idea till it hits you close.

05:21

You have no idea now The lie that people like Jack Robbie and others were putting out there is that I went after this guy

05:32

With facts and hard truth. The reality is as the actual unedited screenshots show

05:40

I Didn't respond to him. I Recognized that was that wasn't gonna go go anywhere and someone named

05:48

Liana Miranda I don't know how much longer cuz once you get past I guess once you get past like 24 hours it stops putting the time thing it just puts dates instead of instead of Two days what yeah,

06:01

I don't I'm not even sure I'm not even sure if that hasn't changed over time I don't know but someone named

06:07

Liana Miranda said I'm so sorry for your loss I'm sorry that so many are taking the humanity away from such loss and making it about politics

06:16

Okay, that's the person I responded to didn't get anywhere totally emotional

06:24

Woman didn't listen to what didn't interact with anything was said the original tweet didn't interact with anything.

06:30

I had said either But the lie was that I had responded to the first individual not to the person who was saying that if you talk about the political ramifications if you think long -term if you

06:45

If you recognize that the left is using this. Oh my goodness. I forgot to bring this up, but I guess

06:52

Was it Biden or Clinton both? Said that again said with the same thing that that representative said

07:00

When they passed the funny money bill We have an opportunity here to accomplish things that we've wanted to accomplish forever.

07:08

I Was Clinton. Yeah, there you go. That's all I had said I had uttered a factual statement and all this came from that But the whole meme was he went after a widower.

07:19

I didn't it was a lie Liam Miranda is not a widower did not claim to be a widower.

07:24

The whole thing is a lie from the start It's a fake.

07:30

It was made up But people like Jacob Dan Hollander and and and Jake Robbie and then of course

07:39

Joel McDermott jumped in on it. You wouldn't expect Joel McDermott has looked for every single opportunity

07:46

To drive a knife into my back since 2009. Okay, so we're coming up with good solid

07:53

Coming up on a full 11 years here for him. So there's nothing nothing new there

07:58

But the standard group of people out there It is an odd group because they should be fighting with each other.

08:05

They don't have all the same motivations, but They are united Most of them are united in their hatred of Doug Wilson, too

08:13

But of me as well, and so they're all getting this guy and they're not gonna look at the facts

08:18

They're not gonna bother to check things sit there They're gonna believe the worst thing possible and tell other thing other people the worst things possible

08:25

So we took all that apart on Tuesday walked through it demonstrated what the facts were

08:32

Thought we'd put to bed well, not so much because Then and like I said,

08:39

I'm not gonna read you, you know, some of this just absolute Nasty, I mean one one guy

08:50

Well, just just some amazing amazing stuff And I'm yeah,

08:56

I'm just gonna minimize these so you can you can go find the stuff yourself I've had some friends have gone Oh, man,

09:01

I wish I hadn't gone looking Because wow Nasty and yeah, they they're they are so and nobody's rebuking them for being nasty

09:11

You know the other people the Christians are they don't know how you problem, but so Yesterday this is at 5 11 p .m.

09:22

Is when my I took screenshots so 5 11 p .m. Mountain Time Mountain Standard Time, which is always

09:29

Mountain Standard Time Um Christine Pack jumps in now Christine Pack, of course

09:39

Absolutely irreversible case of Doug Wilson Drangen syndrome DWS suffer Used to be a used to be a friend used to be on our side as I recall it's at some point but anyway

09:53

Posted this Yes screen. In fact, let me let me Got that even though making it that big the resolutions bad but So here it is.

10:10

Yes screenshots are readily available white now Notice this folks white author of grieving your path back to peace may not have been immediately aware of the widowers comment

10:19

But pretty quickly after the initial comment approximately a thousand people brought it to his attention and he responded now notice what's posted

10:27

If you look at this Here is my original tweet There is his response.

10:34

Now. This is where Liana Miranda would be but Liana Miranda is gone and instead

10:40

What you have is you've now jumped through dozens of comments

10:48

Hours, maybe even a day. I don't recall when it was this says 427.

10:54

So 1152 so that would be Wherever this one was taken was probably

11:00

Eastern time so later in the day as I said on Tuesday This fellow who

11:08

I do not know Did not recognize the and what do you call these things?

11:14

Is this a Nick? Is it a moniker? I mean mines is it handle? Because there's a difference between the name you use and the at sign that you use

11:25

Anyway, there's no connection between the at sign and the name that is used so And it's not a real name

11:32

All I saw in my feed was just somebody saying I'm disappointed you

11:38

I'm a fan follow your work in debates I'm disappointed myself to have wasted my time on you

11:44

Wasted my time on you now I did not know this was the same guy from earlier in the day didn't even the the things didn't recognize you can't

11:54

The people who use avatars of something else which which can't even read So all

12:00

I see is yet another person I'm so disappointed in you and it has to do with You know, well, you shouldn't never talk about politics.

12:09

You should never talk about Christian world. Well, you do that all the time But anyways whatever so I Just respond to this if I had known this person was the same person from earlier in the day or the day before however many

12:23

Hours, it was I don't know. I probably would have skipped it too, but you know, so I said wasted your time

12:28

Well, thank you. I would ask for some kind of biblical or logical reasoning here But I am quite certain as to what

12:34

I would get back. So you be blessed Go on. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna try to get into an argument with you if that's how you feel

12:42

It's obviously an emotional thing not gonna not even go on there not not knowing there's any connection But what's the point in producing a a thing like this?

12:51

You're putting them together You're putting them together So that you're promoting the idea

12:57

Which has already been refuted But you're sort of hoping people don't listen to the dividing line and you sort of the people you're primarily looking for are the people who want to Believe slander and lies and that's really what the

13:12

Internet's about today people on both sides the political I'll do the same thing right now.

13:17

There are people Joe Biden could walk up to The 20 homeless people and give them his last dime and there are people on the right that would turn it into an insult or something and We all know that there has never been anyone who has created more derangement

13:39

Not even Doug Wilson creates more derangement than Donald Trump does so you see the memes all the time

13:47

There was one recently where where it was Donald Trump saying Yeah, I've heard that it's good to eat your vegetables you'll be healthier and then

13:55

CNN need to mow your lawn and eat the grass You know this guy and it's true. That's exact.

14:01

It is exactly what happens. Well, that's what's happening to me you're looking for those people who have already heard something about this and They are inclined to believe it and So you give them what they want now this

14:17

Right here never happened Okay, there there is there is not only a time period there's a day between these two but down here

14:27

There's no response to this individual, but the idea was I had gone after this guy. It's a lie

14:33

But this is meant to prop up the lie because then you have the later thing which

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I've already said didn't didn't even connect the two two things and All I'm saying is so you'd be blasted.

14:44

I'm not gonna argue the I've you know, whatever Okay, both times it was the other guy coming after me.

14:50

Not me going after the other guy both times and The first one I just ignored is like, okay not going not touching that with a 10 -foot pole

14:58

So you take out everything in between but then you keep the narrative where the narrative is

15:04

Oh, he went after this person and he's arguing this person blah blah, which never happened. It was a lie So it is edited so as to maintain the narrative then when

15:15

I point that out When I point that out this comes up. Okay, so this was late last night and This was again

15:28

Christine pack I've already told her You're you're slandering me. You're lying.

15:34

You're posting stuff that didn't happen When you remove when you take tweets out of their order out of their context and put them in another context.

15:43

This is dishonest I'm sorry, if you can't understand that but it is Dishonest.

15:49

So notice what has been done here here. You have my original tweet the response and then notice.

15:55

Oh, look look For 53 a .m. For 2720 and then here's 10 11 a .m.

16:01

For 2720. So see this is after this So see we're not lying But what is this?

16:07

Look look at what's look what's happened this one up here Notice there's nothing above it, you know why

16:15

Because if you actually looked at it, it's not in response to this guy. It's in response to Liana oops

16:22

Wrong person who cares edit it post it. Keep the lie going

16:28

There you go, Christine back. Okay I'm not sure why you people do this when the other side still has the opportunity

16:38

To put the truth on the screen. It reminds me of remember Eric Eric and Kanner Never I never figured out

16:48

Why he kept lying in front of cameras and microphones there.

16:53

This is all being recorded How do you do realize that that eventually you will be found out well

17:03

Thankfully You know, you know, it's scary is if what if people start doing this with stuff from five years ago that you can't even find anymore and You can't go back and go wait a minute.

17:16

No, that's it. No here You see there is it is there is a reason why scripture has such a high standard for truthfulness and a high standard for witnesses that's

17:30

Really really important stuff So this type of thing doesn't happen. So Up here.

17:37

I say if I were to tweet a picture of someone who died of say a cancer that was caused by industrial contamination

17:42

Would I be taking the humanity away from the loss by pointing out the obvious reality of the political realities underlying the situation?

17:48

I've used the term reality too many times there, but the point is Who is that addressed to well?

17:55

It makes it look by the creation of this that it's a response to this that wasn't let me let me show you

18:02

Let me just make sure that we've we've got it here. Here's Here's the original. Here's the real thing.

18:09

Here's my mine here. There's that one Here's Liana Miranda notice taking the humanity away from such loss

18:18

Right below it if I were to a picture of someone who died of say a cancer that was caused by industrial contamination

18:25

Would I be quote taking the humanity away and quote? Where is that from? That's from Liana Miranda That's not from up here.

18:33

Is it no no honest person is gonna believe these lies Because they're lies documented case closed

18:43

Christine Pack Delete your tweets. I'll accept the the apology. In fact,

18:49

I really really hope you will do that, but I sort of doubt it Same thing with Jacob Denhollander and all the rest of you be glad to accept your apology

18:59

But you've never done it before so I'm really not sure I'll accept it now, but I would like to see it It would be a wonderful thing because this kind of behavior see

19:06

I can fight back. I Can't that's why

19:13

I fight back Okay, internet bullies or internet bullies they need to be identified as internet bullies.

19:19

All right, just all there is to it Hate to have to waste time with this kind of stuff.

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But here's here's the reason why it's important to do So did you see oops,

19:30

I minimized. Oh great. I hate when you you click back on the preview thing and there are now 40 47 shots that you just had up But I mean that I died but I need to show this let me see if I can

19:46

It will be the last one that I choose. I can guarantee. Yep so far So far, so I'm gonna skip

19:53

That's of course when you skip it doesn't work either Okay There it is

20:00

Let me read it again Christine Pack white Parenthesis author of grieving your path back to peace

20:11

Parenthesis closed. No, why do that? It's purposeful It's meant to cause damage

20:16

It's meant to damage the book. It's meant to damage me. It's meant to damage this ministry Now here's why this is important.

20:24

I have had numerous people Contact me over the years

20:30

About how that book helped them through very difficult times and I have had multiple people tell me it kept them from suicide

20:39

So what if you because of your derangement syndrome decide to join into a cabal of liars

20:46

Who have made up a lie out of whole cloth? Made up a story that never happened and that any honest person who looks at the data would know never happened

20:58

What if you join into that for whatever reasons that you might have maybe you think that's a good way of Getting at Doug Wilson or something that would explain this one but what if you do this and as a result

21:13

Someone doesn't buy that book or doesn't distribute that book because well, you know, I heard that thing about white

21:18

I guess I shouldn't do that this morning Unsolicited I was sent a tweet.

21:28

It was solicited by this discussion from a brother named Ray and Ray said this this is from this morning.

21:37

Well, okay. I saw it this morning. It says 11 hours. So it might have been late last night Ray said the only comment

21:42

I have is this my wife committed suicide one month ago No note, no explanation.

21:48

No chance for goodbye Your book on grieving has been very helpful I've given it to others in the past now tragically.

21:56

It's my turn. Thank you. Here's the simple reality

22:02

When you lose your balance When you become deranged and imbalanced in who you have to attack and who you have to make stuff up about you may well preclude people like this from having access to resources that they actually needed and You will bear the responsibility

22:24

Keep it in mind Keep it in mind All right, the nothing burger controversy is ended anyone look we will post this link to it

22:38

Just give it to anybody who you see because we've had people we've had friends. We've had people part of the ministry

22:43

I'm hearing this side of the other thing. What's this all about? That's how this stuff works lies travel far faster than truth ever could far faster than truth ever could and So just link to it say there

22:57

Listen this program at this point this part of this point Documentation is all there. It's the nothing burger controversy.

23:03

There's nothing to it. It is one big huge pack of Lies pack of lies.

23:10

That's funny So there you go Didn't want to waste that time but but there it is now

23:21

I was thinking on a walk slash run this morning

23:27

Um when Well, wait a minute.

23:33

Let me did I bring that up? Yes, I did Let me see here

23:43

Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's pretty much where I wanted to go with that Do y 'all remember?

23:49

I think it was Let's see. It's almost May so early

23:56

April of last year. Can any of us remember pretty much anything before February?

24:03

Because it really seems like the entire world Changed once once all that stuff started happening and it sort of happened slowly

24:13

Well quickly actually so There was an unbelievable radio broadcast that had

24:24

Chris date Enlightened flowers, which is ironic in light of what's happened since then in that We've responded to both individuals in different in different contexts, but we

24:37

Reviewed some of the comments then but that was before and in fact, I don't know.

24:43

Let me I'm not sure if there is I'm not sure exactly when this came out.

24:49

I don't remember when I first it was 2019 But I don't know when it came into when it actually what month that came out but I was this wasn't yet on the

25:04

Reading list shall we say the Ken Wilson book the shorter version and so now that things have

25:16

Changed in light of Working through materials and things like that I Thought it would be useful to go back and to illustrate one of the things

25:31

I've been saying for a long time, but With something that was recorded before all of this started in regards to Ken Wilson that was one of the useful things about reviewing the interview is and I am aware of the fact

25:49

I haven't listened to it That there's been a two -hour thing that Leighton flowers did with with Ken Wilson. I it is

25:56

It is a self evidently true reality Any review of the soteriology 101 website and videos will prove this

26:07

That it's easier to produce material when you're only focused on one subject when you are

26:14

Okay Been attacked for this before but it's simply accurate when you're a one -string banjo

26:21

When you got one note to play you can crank out the information and I just if you think that's mean go look at the videos on the

26:29

YouTube and ask yourself the question how Wide and broad are

26:35

Leighton flowers interests as far as what he's actually addressing I'd say about 1 1 ,000th as as broad as the topics that we address here

26:46

So you can you can put out a lot more information in a short short period of time But I haven't listened to that either this is

26:57

Early last year Pre Wilson as far as my knowledge of Wilson and what it illustrates

27:05

Is one of my key concerns not only with flowers but with Wilson as well when you

27:14

Exegete a text of scripture and We can take this back to 2015 this has been the key all along when someone claims to be exegeting a text of scripture you need to Ask yourself a question

27:35

Is this person spending more time? Telling me what the text cannot be saying or positively what it is saying

27:50

Now we live in a day where unfortunately there is a tremendous amount of agnosticism even among scholars you'd amongst professing

27:58

Christian scholars and You've heard of epistemological humility any useful phrase

28:07

Has some element of truth to it or it's not useful Any joke has some the reason

28:14

Babylon B is normally not always but normally very funny is That there is a clear element of truth, which is what which is what's so much fun about watching

28:26

Snopes Do handstands and cut themselves and beat themselves with bats and everything else

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They're trying to fact -check Babylon B is because What freaks

28:42

Snopes out is there's always an element of truth. And so when you talk about epistemological humility, yeah

28:49

We need to recognize none of us has all knowledge. None of us is in and of ourselves

28:55

Infallible as an interpreter and exegete On the last program.

29:00

I talked about a situation where I myself have to go Now looking at that textual variant and that text

29:08

You know 20 -25 years down the road 30 years down the road from where I first examined it.

29:17

Is it possible that I've either learned more since then or gained enough perspective to look at it from a different angle and see things that I was unable to see before unwilling to see before so I've I I get that level of quote -unquote epistemological humility.

29:37

The problem is that's normally turned into a warrant for biblical agnosticism

29:44

Yeah, we've got the Bible, but we're not really sure what it says about pretty much anything really

29:52

That raises the question I may do this sometime down the road I did a sermon years ago out of 2nd

29:59

John wonderful little book and It was about The fact that the truth of the gospel would abide

30:13

With the church. This is a confidence that we can have Because of God's sovereignty if you don't have a sovereign

30:19

God the yeah the the truth the gospel may have been lost But if you have a sovereign

30:24

God who is accomplishing his purposes in this world Then you can have confidence in in that reality

30:33

So Epistemological humility Has an element of truth, but it cannot be used as a broad warrant for simply saying we can't know what the truth is

30:44

So when you hear someone who is far more concerned about what a text could not possibly be saying

30:53

Than they are in explaining from the text from the language from the grammar and from the flow of the context

31:01

Obviously the emphasis has to go on the preceding context But you can always look at what comes behind even though there may be a break in thought things like that.

31:10

That's why Antecedent context is is always most important Then you you should your antenna should come up and you should be gone.

31:23

Hmm What's going on here this? This is a test

31:30

That you should apply to everyone myself included Myself included anybody and yeah your own pastor as well.

31:41

And here's here's a warning Not every sermon from your pastor is as good as every other sermon from your pastor

31:51

Sometimes there's a clinker even from really good preachers. Sometimes you have a bad week bad day bad morning before service whatever and We should not

32:08

Feel that there is anything wrong with recognizing at times I'm not 100 % certain about that one and there are certain telltale signs and You've heard the argument

32:24

When your point is weak yell louder that happens in a lot of sermons and that happens in a lot of debates, too and So I wanted to go back and I wanted to listen to Because what did we do?

32:41

Again, when you start doing so many programs back -to -back, it's hard to remember what day was what but I think it was this week

32:47

I think it was Monday That we did Isaiah 10. Okay thing is Monday Um, Isaiah 10 is one of the key

32:57

Compatibilistic proof texts When I say compatibilistic simply the recognition that you cannot flatten out the

33:06

Bible's teaching into an either -or situation Where you banish

33:13

God's sovereign decree So as to leave room in your flattened out two -dimensional universe for autonomous free will

33:24

If you allow the Bible to speak it speaks of God's absolute sovereign decree Working all things after the counsel of his will and it says that God is just and holding men accountable

33:36

Based upon the actions of the desires of their heart Both are true

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You're not big enough. You're not smart enough. You're not eternal enough or omniscient enough

33:51

Putting enough with that is enough to figure that out and To make that fit into your little

34:02

World's parameters, but I believe in solo scriptura and I believe in tota scriptura and Therefore I need to believe all of what scripture says

34:13

So in the unbelievable program there were a set of scriptures that were looked at from both sides

34:22

And one of them was Genesis 50 And I did just I suppose

34:33

I can show this to you. Um, I was tracking down Just I don't know just for the fun of it just so you all can be happy Genesis 50 in one of the earliest

34:49

Greek manuscripts we could find of it and I actually have it here and this is

35:00

Codex Vaticanus But unfortunately it is

35:06

Somewhat damaged and remember just in passing this has nothing to do with our subject but just in passing that one of the sad realities of history is

35:19

That some poor scribe somewhere in the medieval period

35:26

Probably as penance for some really bad thing he probably I Don't know spilled wax on the bishops head during mass or something.

35:36

Who knows? But he had to go through this entire manuscript and retrace

35:42

Every letter this entire Bible in Greek Well, okay, we're not sure when

35:49

Hebrews 9 14 and following fell off of Vaticanus whether it was there or not, but But probably still to do that too.

35:58

So here's here's the section in Genesis But you can see or can we see we can't see yes.

36:04

No, there we go But you can see some of its down here is readable and then the rest of it not so much

36:10

It's sort of faded out and gotten icky looking but you can see like up here, especially That's clearly been written over now.

36:18

I don't know what happened down here I'm sure there are entire books on That process and everything else, but I didn't

36:31

I'm Apologize, I didn't get it done Just I was doing it at five minutes before the program started.

36:37

So I wasn't able to show it to you It's not that it changes anything. It just thought it'd be sort of neat to look at it Because Genesis 50 is is

36:45

Genesis 50, but if you're not familiar with the context Let's remind ourselves

36:53

Beginning of verse 15 when Joseph's brothers saw their father was dead Remember the story

36:58

Joseph Egypt becomes second to Pharaoh you know hides himself from his brothers brings them up the hiding of the cup and the sacks and You know all that story, but that what goes before that story was the murderous intention of the brothers and Remember the coat of many colors one of my favorites stories on flannel graph back when you know

37:27

My mom was one of my Sunday school teachers and and we had flannel graph back then and I remember the coat of many colors and that's that's

37:37

Look the scriptures description the scriptures say that that was a great gift that he

37:44

That he gave to his son. And yes, it is the same in a Coogee of many colors or a coat of many colors.

37:53

It's to say I think it was a coogee I think someday they're going to find

37:58

Joseph's Coogee in a somewhere well preserved in a in in Egypt because it could be a

38:06

Coogee could survive in Egypt because manuscripts can a coogee could too so they're gonna find some hidden wall in a in a in a pyramid someplace and there it'll be and It'll say coogee and then it'll it'll still have a dry cleaning thing on that says deliver to Joseph That's my prediction.

38:26

It's about as good as everything else you get in charisma news. Anyways, so Anyway, so You remember the story?

38:36

jealousy God intervenes God intervened that we have to keep we have to keep this context in mind and it's a context that Layton flowers knows because he's going to mention it and That is the the the initial desire of the brothers was not to sell

38:57

Joseph it was to kill Joseph Bury his body

39:03

Deceive their father and That was not God's intention. That's psalm 33

39:11

God's intention is established man's intention is worth it That's not who had autonomy in this situation did

39:23

Joseph's brothers have the ability to kill

39:29

Joseph did they have the ability?

39:34

Of course they would have had the weapons they would have had the opportunity they could have gotten away with it

39:43

But did they have the ability? Because remember this is Layton flowers big thing is

39:50

He wants the provisionists are all about Responsibility means the ability to respond hence autonomy

40:00

So did Joseph's brothers have the ability

40:08

To kill Joseph in reality and the answer is no they did not Why?

40:15

Because as we're gonna see in Genesis 50 It was God's intention

40:23

To bring the children of Israel into Egypt think about it. What is the single most

40:31

Often repeated example in the

40:36

New Testament from the Old Testament of God's action of deliverance in Jesus Passover Exodus, what do you have to have for that?

40:50

You gotta get the people of Israel into Egypt. How do you do that? Joseph Joseph sold into slavery in Egypt it absolutely key to the entire

41:05

Redemptive story unless you're gonna say that God really didn't have a story and he's just sort of bumbling along with these guys and going man

41:13

I'm not sure how long it's gonna take him. I really want to get the Messiah to come but Whenever I can work it out and then

41:23

This happens and it's like oh, well, I'll try to make the best come out of this So I'll try to make the mess best kind of that can you imagine if If the promise of Romans 828 is

41:34

I'll just try to make the best come out of all the evil I can but it's gonna be really ugly messy so that every bit of the blood on the doorposts the paschal lamb the unleavened bread

41:53

The death of the firstborn the despoiling of the gods of Egypt. It's all just fortuitous.

41:59

It wasn't intended by God Because every one of those requires tens of thousands of quote -unquote

42:06

Autonomous free will choices to make any sense or to come about so God kept

42:17

The brothers from killing Joseph, let me put it this way the brothers could not have killed

42:24

Joseph They did not have the ability to go kill

42:29

Joseph Physically, yes on the human plane. Yes in Reality, no, but but and here's the key.

42:39

Here's the key upon which

42:47

Level does God's righteous judgment operate in? Judging where there's something is sin.

42:56

That's the issue and the answer is and the answer given in Genesis 50 is

43:04

The level where our will exists and our knowledge exists because the

43:11

Joseph's brothers I assure you had no idea as They saw him coming

43:20

They saw the Coogee from afar Sometimes I wish the rich cam was on like an

43:29

ISO Channel So I set a switch over here and I could pop it up so you could see the pained expression

43:36

Yeah, yeah there they saw the

43:42

Coogee from afar and You're not allowed to facepalm right now, yeah, it's politically incorrect to facepalm.

43:54

Yeah they saw the Coogee from afar and They are judged on the basis of the hatred and murder that filled their heart

44:09

Not on whether they followed through with it Because they couldn't because it was not

44:15

God's will that Joseph die nobody Could have killed

44:22

Joseph that day Nobody, in fact, no one can kill anyone until God's sovereign decree says they're to die

44:35

That's why the Psalter can say My days are written in your book how we have to on the human level say

44:51

That we could die any day and from our perspective that's true, but from God's perspective

44:59

That is not true. I Can not die Until the day

45:06

God has ordained that to happen, but I don't know when that is So I live as if it could be today or I try to very frequently failing that But I try to So when they saw

45:21

Joseph coming Their hearts are filled with hatred their hearts are filled with murder, but God restrains them and Instead now think about it there is a

45:38

Caravan going by well, what were the chances of that? Let's Let's remember something

45:46

There weren't a whole lot of people on earth back then in comparison to today There were a few million

45:55

But nothing like the billions we have today and so You'd go on a caravan and you wouldn't see another human for a long long time

46:07

It you know, there weren't a jet planes flying over You know no tracks in the sand from the four -wheel drives that went by nothing like that the chances of a caravan just happening by Very very small

46:23

God's orchestrating this and it just so happens That they're going to the very place

46:33

God wants to send his people to prove the supremacy of his nature a lot of people miss

46:42

The plagues and what they mean if you know anything about Egyptian religion, it's fascinating It really is it it shows up a lot in the

46:51

Old Testament a lot of concepts and stuff back there a lot of apologetics against those concepts in the

46:59

Old Testament text as well that we Miss because we don't have the background But when you look at the plagues

47:07

God is demonstrating his absolute sovereign power over the entirety of the pantheon of Egyptian gods

47:16

They could do nothing Yahweh can do everything that can only happen if Joseph gets to Egypt and So think about it again.

47:27

Do you think those those traitors in that caravan? You think they were really nice guys? They're they're buying and selling slaves.

47:34

Okay, they're slave traders Along with other things, I'm sure Do you think they're nice guys

47:42

Think about this There was no point in that entire trip into Egypt where any one of those slave traders

47:50

Could have killed Joseph Not from God's perspective Not a one of them had the free will not a one of them had the autonomous will

48:00

To be able to kill Joseph because it was God's intention that Joseph go to Egypt you see how

48:09

See one of the arguments is well, you know God can there are certain things that God can do he can do a little thing over here a little thing over there

48:19

But you know, it's the it's you know, it's the general stuff, you know that God just doesn't care about think about it

48:27

Think of how many autonomous choices Were involved in creating the context for Joseph to go

48:38

To Egypt and to do in Egypt what he did Potiphar Had to marry

48:47

Quite an interesting woman. What was involved with that?

48:52

Well, we don't know was it an arranged marriage. We don't know but there are all sorts of decisions involved with that and there were decisions involved in the raising of that young girl to where she

49:02

Became the woman that she became unfaithful to her husband chasing after Joseph all sorts of freewill decisions involved there and God thwarted anything other than what would bring about the fulfillment of his intentions and purposes

49:21

Because he needed to go to prison and he need to go to prison at the exact time

49:27

That the certain people would be there that would allow him to interpret the dreams that allow him to do what he did and rise the position he did in the

49:34

Egyptian government and Then provide the seven years before the seven years of famine or all sorts of other people would have died

49:41

You see how many tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of people are involved in each one of these stories

49:50

It's not like he just goes. Well, I'm gonna do a supernatural Sovereignty thing right there.

49:56

That's it. Everybody else is cool, right? No, no other no other autonomous wills

50:01

Affected you see the only reason you worry about stuff like that is when you don't realize

50:11

Compatibilism When you don't realize that the God who made time and All the events in time is big enough to do so in such a way that The temporal realm and the eternal realm are in perfect harmony

50:28

If you deny compatibilism you're saying God can't do that you are denying to God the capacity

50:34

Based upon your philosophical categories and your teeny tiny little intellect

50:42

You're denying that to God Why? Why so that's the backdrop

50:54

That that's the backdrop and so you remember the rest of story Remember how they the children of Israel come down there and You know what's happened and and now the father's died and so Genesis 50 15 when

51:08

Joseph's brothers thought their father was dead They said what if Joseph bears a grudge against us and pays us back in full for all the wrong which we did to him

51:16

So they sent a message Joseph saying your father charged before he died. I've often wondered did he did he?

51:27

I mean It doesn't really seem like they've really fully learned their lesson yet, so did he

51:35

Well, maybe we'll find out someday. I don't know Your father charged before he died saying thus you shall say to Joseph Please forgive

51:44

I beg you the transgression of your brothers and their sin for they did you wrong

51:50

Okay, so can we? settle without question The reality that what they did in selling

51:59

Joseph into slavery was sin it was wrong The answer is yes clearly

52:08

Clearly and Joseph wept when they spoke to him the messenger spoke to him

52:18

Then his brothers also came and fell down before him and said behold. We are your servants not your brothers

52:25

We're your servants and So all through this, you know Please forgive the transgressions of the servants of the

52:32

God of your father see all this is separating themselves from Joseph They're not they're not saying Oh brother brother brother

52:38

Because they know they they pretty well Burned that bridge long time ago and I would imagine they were expecting, you know, all the worst stuff that from the mummy films

52:52

You know the people scratching from the insides of coffins and stuff like Their figure and this is what we're headed for You know, what were those flesh -eating beetles and stuff like that?

53:03

And yeah, they're they're they're toast So they come fell down before him and said behold.

53:11

We are your servants But Joseph said to them do not be afraid for am

53:16

I in? God's place for am

53:23

I in The place of God may

53:32

I suggest That Joseph understood something that a lot of Christians don't understand that Joseph understood there's

53:45

God's place and Then there's the creatures place and only

53:51

God can be in God's place and we need to leave

53:57

God in God's place and We will mess everything up big time when we try to take

54:06

God's place We ain't big enough. We ain't smart enough. We shouldn't even want to be there.

54:20

Am I in God's place? That has to be understood before the verse 20 will be understandable that there is a place for God and here's my argument.

54:30

I believe that the That's what I forgot to do I Downloaded it a guy named

54:39

Kemp was on with With latent flowers and Did I put that let me look real quick I did download

54:57

It was there it is. Ah Good.

55:02

I can do this. Okay, I'll do that in a second. I Honestly believe

55:12

That the only way that you will be able to see the fullness of what Genesis 50 20 means and Genesis 50 20 is words of wisdom that come from Joseph who suffered for decades before he could come to understand the immature proud little kid

55:30

Who had his Coogee ripped off of him? Before being sent to Egypt had changed massively in the years afterwards and He had suffered and it was suffering that gave him the maturity to recognize

55:55

That we can never be in God's place. God has a place that we never belong He is sovereign.

56:02

He is accomplishing his purpose and if you don't start there if You put man's philosophy if you put human autonomy

56:12

In God's place You're not gonna you're not gonna understand

56:20

Genesis 50 20. You're not going to Am I in God's place as? For you you meant evil against me you intended

56:41

Against me rah Evil He doesn't soft -sell it

56:50

He doesn't say, you know, I understand I was a jerk I Understand I was arrogant

57:00

No He does not what they did was evil. You do not sell people into slavery you do not take their clothing and dip it in blood and Torture their father into thinking for years.

57:15

Can you imagine? Not only the suffering of that old man

57:23

Part of which he brought on himself. There's no question about it, but it was still suffering. It was undeserved

57:28

The suffering of that old man and then can you imagine the family dynamic?

57:37

the first time after he sees

57:43

Joseph After he has the whole story When he is alone with those brothers

57:52

And Joseph's not there. What was that like?

58:00

That man's not stupid He knew what his sons had done. He knew his sons had sat there and pretended to comfort him as he wept and mourned and They well knew

58:14

Joseph was not dead and they were the ones that had sold him into slavery That's a somewhat of a non -functional family a few problems in in.

58:26

Yeah No choice about that's why it really makes me wonder. Did he really say say this to Joseph and Not sure you meant evil against me

58:43

He doesn't use some Strange word that could be translated many different ways.

58:49

Raah Means evil and you intended it.

58:55

It was the intention of your heart and it was aimed against me

59:01

It wasn't just you experienced this Strange impersonal feeling of evil and I got cut.

59:08

No, it was you intended evil against me. That's what the first four words not including phenomenal suffixes or Phenomenal suffixes, right not including any antecedents you

59:24

Intended evil against me God then using the same verb

59:34

Intended and I'm looking over the Greek Septuagint as well both use using bulimia

59:41

God Intended meant it for good

59:53

Not for me. There's the for me is not repeated

01:00:00

Meant it for good in order to bring about This day literally this present result and To preserve

01:00:14

Am -Rab many people

01:00:19

Hi alive to reserve the lives of many people.

01:00:28

So Let's look at what is not parallel between the two first What is not parallel is as one would expect as one would expect the brothers intentions very narrow Focus solely upon Joseph you meant evil against me

01:00:55

God meant it Which was their act of evil.

01:01:01

There's no questions the same thing God meant it

01:01:07

For good, but it's not just for my good.

01:01:14

He meant it for good In order to bring about this present result to preserve many people alive and yes, that meant their family and flocks and servants and all the rest that stuff

01:01:32

But we know that many people in Egypt had been preserved alive

01:01:38

Because of the interpretation of the dreams the famine storehouses, you know, you know the rest of the story so There is not an absolute parallel because God's Intention is bigger broader and better But what is unquestionably parallel the only the only reason

01:02:01

That the Hebrew looks different is because when you write Hebrew you use different Forms depending upon the form of the verb whether it's singular plural you can have direct objects

01:02:15

Etc, etc. And so you meant evil. That's the brothers

01:02:22

But God's singular But it's the same verb you intended you meant and There's only one object it the act of evil

01:02:36

You meant it for evil God meant it for good and I'm just gonna start looking at this camera eventually because you know

01:02:47

We've been going for over an hour and just one so I don't know what he's doing in there I don't know.

01:02:52

He's not listening to me. Obviously, he's he's on his phone. He's doing his thing and I don't know

01:02:59

What can I say? so, um, oh

01:03:07

I lost him at the Coogee. Okay. Yes Joseph's Coogee. He just decided at that point that theologically he just couldn't buy it anymore and he's

01:03:16

Bailing out. So, okay, that's fun You have absolute parallel You have one act it was an evil act but it was intended by God.

01:03:29

I don't know how you can get around this You can sit there well, you're gonna hear one way of trying to get around in a moment but you have one act and in God's ordering of his universe the judgment for that act is based upon the intentionality of the will

01:03:58

They meant it for evil God meant it for good. That was how

01:04:05

God chose to get Joseph into a place to save many people alive and that is good The act itself on the part of the brothers was evil

01:04:15

If you have to flatten that out to where both of those statements cannot be true, you will never ever

01:04:23

Be able to handle the text of Scripture in a meaningful fashion You won't

01:04:30

You won't So with all of that having spent that much time

01:04:38

Let's take a listen to what What? Somebody made a meme.

01:04:47

Oh could a Coogee meme Why can't

01:04:53

I see memes and why is it like during the program and stuff? I can't see memes That makes me very very all

01:05:05

I see is Christine pack No, I will eventually see it

01:05:17

Unpopular opinion dr. Ugly 1689 got his Coogee sweater style from Biggie Smalls notorious

01:05:22

BIG. No, I did not No, factually, my first Coogee was in 93.

01:05:29

I don't think those guys were around in 93 That was given to me by a friend. So nope, that ain't that ain't working.

01:05:35

But yeah, no, I don't see any Let he had half no

01:05:43

Smith and Wesson sell his Coogee sweater misspelled Coogee sweater vest and buy one That'd be some fun things to look at when we get done here

01:05:54

Okay before I play late in flowers The whole deceitfully edited narrative is white's attempt to misdirect away from the fact

01:06:02

He showed zero compassion to the man who had lost a loved one. Okay, can I stop here for a second? The lie has been exposed the second lie has been exposed and So what does

01:06:14

Christine pack do she triples down with a new one won't admit?

01:06:21

The facts that have been laid in for in front of her this is Reprehensible. I don't

01:06:29

What can I say So now So now what we're being told

01:06:35

The original lie was that I went after the guy I didn't the second lie was to hook together different parts

01:06:42

Didn't happen either So now I showed zero compassion to the man.

01:06:48

So now what I was supposed to do Is I make a tweet about the political ramifications of utilizing the kovat?

01:06:59

pandemic To lurch the entire world to the left. What I'm supposed to do is someone comes in Bombs that with the emotional tweet and I am supposed to somehow

01:07:12

Engage in some type of counseling online with this person rather than just going that's

01:07:21

That's a hand grenade, I'm not pulling the pin on it if you want to pop into someone's thread throw a hand grenade in I'm not gonna

01:07:31

I'm not gonna respond to it. But now now that's the new meme You see we got caught in the first ones.

01:07:38

We got caught lying. Let's lie some more Christine. You need help You need help.

01:07:45

Have you talked to your elders about your problems? You need help. This is just unbelievable Wow, that's that's that man, anyway ddddddd so We'll edit that one and stick it at the other part of it later on or something.

01:08:07

I don't know Let's listen to what Layton flowers has to say about now what has happened what it's plugged in What happened was

01:08:16

Chris Tate had given his presentation This was if you recall, I think it was a three was a three or two verses

01:08:23

I can't remember which each side presented Their viewpoint from a passage of scripture couple passages scriptures may have two or three then the other side responded and then reversed so this is where Chris Tate is giving obviously a prepared thing and then

01:08:40

Layton is responding I don't know if they mentioned I can't remember now. It's been Over a year.

01:08:45

I can't remember if they I'm sure they did exchange which verses they were gonna do So Layton should have had something ready to go, but anyway, so here is

01:08:56

Layton flowers on Genesis 50 20 Well, sure I'd back up a little bit and look at the context of the text because the original intent of the

01:09:05

Brothers was not to sell the brother into slavery. If you look through the narrative their original intent was murderous

01:09:10

They wanted to kill him because of pride they were jealous Well, where does pride originate?

01:09:15

Where does that come from? First John 2 16 says the lust of the flesh the lust of the eyes the pride of life comes not from the father

01:09:22

But from the world, so whatever we conclude here We cannot go against what scripture teaches us and conclude that some eternal divine decree is the cause or the origin of?

01:09:33

these brothers pride okay, so the first The first thing that is stated is

01:09:40

Whatever. This is saying it can't be what he says it says Wait, so so my interpretation is

01:09:51

The origin of pride is from the world Therefore it can't from come from God and therefore there is no divine decree

01:10:01

Do we recognize? Eisegesis when we see it do we recognize someone who?

01:10:07

looking at the text is Going I have over writing commitments

01:10:13

That will not allow me to hear what this text is saying and since this text specifically presents the one divine truth that is the kryptonite to my tradition and That is compatibilism

01:10:31

Because of compatibilism is true if there can be one event that is sinful on the part of one and good on the part of the other as Genesis 50 20 says

01:10:43

Then the entire Argumentation that he utilizes collapses done

01:10:50

We have to come to a better conclusion than than to impugn. I think again unintentionally

01:10:56

I think Chris's view impugns the character of God in that way. So the text says

01:11:02

I Know you keep going back to the text. The text says there's one event

01:11:08

The brothers meant it for evil. God meant it for good. Oh, you don't want to impugn

01:11:13

God's character In that way, I'm not impugning God's character God is big enough to Intend good

01:11:24

Through man's evil. That's what the cross is about. That's what Isaiah 10 is about. That's what Genesis 50 is about Layton just doesn't believe those because he has an over arching

01:11:37

Concept that he places that he doesn't derive from Scripture, but he places on top of Scripture So do we get a positive exegesis, let's find out and so what we would say

01:11:48

I'll give an analogy for example police officers. We get an analogy

01:11:54

We don't get exegesis. We get an analogy because Exegesis is not supportive of our position but an analogy

01:12:05

We can try To come up with a story that will keep people from recognizing that we're not actually dealing with the text

01:12:15

Because we have a different ultimate authority It a sting operation where they know of notorious drug dealers in the area.

01:12:22

They know their intention they know that they're evil and they use they don't cause but they use the evil intention of Criminals in order to bring about the selling of drugs at a particular time on Thursday at 2 o 'clock in the warehouse

01:12:36

So as to catch all the drug dealers in one place in the sting operation So the police officers meant that selling of drugs and evil crime

01:12:44

For a good reason while the criminals meant it for a bad reason So the same crime the same act is being meant by both the police officers and the criminals

01:12:55

One is being meant for an evil purpose for selfish gain The other is being meant for a good purpose and in the same way in this scenario

01:13:04

Obviously God meant what the brothers did for a good purpose for redemption

01:13:09

So God's not redeeming his own determinations here. He's redeeming the brothers bad determinations

01:13:15

He's bringing a good so notice he's redeeming their bad determinations.

01:13:21

He did not determine the same act He's redeeming their bad determinations, that's not what the text says.

01:13:27

We've already demonstrated that so he's changing the text In light of his analogy in light of his overriding tradition.

01:13:35

This is how tradition substantiates itself It can't be derived from exegesis. This is eisegesis.

01:13:41

This is latent flowers Eisegeding Genesis 50 in light of his tradition on the bad. He's not causing the bad so as to just redeem his own determination

01:13:49

Chris interesting analogy there as well with the Same crime being meant for different purposes and and so on.

01:13:57

What's your take on that? So we Went to that before but now especially in light of what we're hearing what you can see is the a priori force

01:14:09

That this tradition has so even when you're looking at one of the clearest texts in all scripture

01:14:15

That gives you will of man will of God one act you can't accept it

01:14:21

You just simply can't accept it so in light of that because I forgot to pull that up Let me pull up where to go.

01:14:34

Oh, there it is here is Someone an open theist an

01:14:44

Open theist sent this to me and I forgot to put it. Sorry I forgot to put it in my

01:14:50

Evernote thing to pull up but I told somebody else that I would Cover it on the vinyl and so we've got enough time to do it and It's it's short.

01:14:58

It's only two minutes 18 seconds. So I Don't know who Eric Kemp is. He's done some stuff with Leighton But Here well, let's just listen to it and It's relevant to what we just heard and in fact, you know, those are some of the questions

01:15:17

I have for Michael Horton in one of my articles is that You know

01:15:25

Could it be? that we Have the same goal.

01:15:31

Okay that we want to rightly balance the fact that God is sovereign over creation

01:15:39

Whatever that we can discuss what that means But that that God is in ultimate authority over creation and that man is responsible

01:15:49

God is an ultimate. I think he said an ultimate authority We share the same goal.

01:15:55

This is what we want But when you say could it be It's my question for our

01:16:03

Reformed audience here for Michael Horton specifically My question is could it be? that once the

01:16:09

Westminster Confession of Faith says God from all eternity Did by most wise and Holy Council was what of his own will freely and unchangeable ordain whatsoever may come to pass

01:16:18

As long as you say that As long as you affirm that then even if you say and believe

01:16:27

Yet so as thereby neither is the God of author of sin So even if you believe that he does so somehow in some way without being the author of sin

01:16:36

Could it be that our criticism is once you say the first part? Just saying the second part doesn't make it so that once you say the first part the fact that God is the author of sin

01:16:51

Ordains evil. However, you want to put it that that logically follows after the first statement

01:16:57

Even if you affirm it doesn't even if you claim it doesn't that is what our criticism is

01:17:02

Kind of like it kind of to me. It kind of sounds like you're saying in one in one sentence. You're saying bachelors are not married but Bachelors have a wife

01:17:14

Right. And so and so if you acknowledge that that's our criticism Then you would have to answer the criticism in some other way besides saying yeah

01:17:23

But I don't believe God is the author of sin or he does it somehow without being the author of sin That doesn't answer the

01:17:29

Christian that doesn't assuage the logical train you set in motion I've never heard

01:17:36

An answer never heard never heard an answer to that. Well, we've offered an answer that so many times

01:17:41

I've lost count But notice what? Mr. Kemp is assuming

01:17:48

He is assuming that if Ephesians 111 is correct because I mean the

01:17:53

Westminster Confession is pretty much just utilizing that language if God Ordains whatsoever comes to pass if he works all things after the counsel of his will which included the selling of Joseph into slavery which included the utilization of the

01:18:10

Assyrians as punishment against Israel Which included the actions of Pilate Herod the

01:18:19

Romans and the Jews? Then by definition by definition

01:18:26

There cannot be a basis of justice and righteousness in God's judgment because by definition

01:18:38

You must exclude Compatibilism you must you must conflate the temporal human realm with God's eternal existence

01:18:52

You flatten them out Squish them together get rid of the decree you're left with human autonomy

01:19:01

Scripture says you can't flatten it out. It's a diamond. You can beat on it all you want. It's not going to make any difference and Joseph came to understand what the

01:19:12

Westminster framers understood Isaiah did too and Everybody in the early church prayed that way in Acts chapter 4 so they recognized

01:19:25

You can have that objection if you want But where is the source of the objection?

01:19:33

It's your philosophical system. You're not objecting from Scripture and so you're objecting to a scriptural revelation on the basis of a philosophical reflection and your

01:19:44

Philosophy is never any bigger than your cranium and you may be the most brilliant man the planet

01:19:50

But you fade like the flower of the grass Between morning and evening, you know one one trillionth of what

01:19:59

God knows You know one one billionth of what's going on right now your philosophical reasoning is not perfect as nobody's is and Therefore your basis is very insufficient to challenge the revelation of Scripture that this is in fact how

01:20:17

God does it and if the little creature Demands that the

01:20:23

Creator show all his cards. Well, we're not reading the same source book Because there are a lot of those creatures in Scriptures in the scriptures that recognize

01:20:35

God is God and I am NOT So I hear the objection

01:20:42

Okay But you say you've never gotten an answer. Of course you have But your philosophical categories will not allow you to even process the

01:20:53

Exegetical nature of the answer given to you by Scripture. This brings us back again to what is prior

01:21:00

What comes first divine revelation or man's philosophies and There that that's one of the reasons that the apologetic issue is so important Because it's still referring us to the same thing

01:21:17

When Scripture makes an end of speaking so must we that's based upon an epistemology and understanding of the sufficiency of Scripture and the fact that God provides

01:21:32

What we need Not necessarily what we would like in the extent of that revelation now

01:21:40

Do I believe that sometime in the future in the eternity to come? Um, there's probably gonna be a whole bunch of aha moments where we go.

01:21:51

Ah, ah Yeah I'm sure there will be

01:21:58

I'm sure there will be but till then when your philosophy

01:22:04

Requires you to do to Genesis 50 what Layton just did to Genesis 50 Then your philosophy is not a biblical philosophy.

01:22:12

It's not a Christian philosophy. It's a humanistic philosophy and as such needs to be Rejected needs to be rejected.

01:22:20

So, um Get that.

01:22:33

Oh my goodness. She won't stop She is utterly deceived

01:22:39

I'm sorry. I'll finish up with this Folks, you couldn't be more clear. We couldn't have been more clear.

01:22:45

The facts are on the table. This is black and white this is this is We have a deceived sister here.

01:22:52

Okay, she's lost it Christine pack just six minutes ago. No lies

01:22:57

The screenshot shows that JW is clearly commenting in response to the man who posted a pic of his ex -wife

01:23:05

Who died from kovat? Paraphrase. Hey, I could post my own pic of someone who died of something other than kovat and no one would have been upset

01:23:13

Heartless that is a lie. Oh My goodness That I can't it is stunning to me

01:23:23

Mark her down We have someone who is simply intent upon creating something will not accept correction

01:23:34

Stunning And then she repost the picture that that requires a level of dishonesty and deceitfulness.

01:23:44

That is truly Astonishing astonishing

01:23:49

I Yet you have to at that at that point you just start going, okay Christians are to be people who are concerned about truth.

01:23:57

This is a person who is not therefore Wow Anybody in this woman's life that can reach her

01:24:05

Can talk to her elders can she needs help? She needs help. She is seeing truth right in front of her and She's just doubling down that you know

01:24:15

You know what? this reminds me of when we're out talking to Mormon missionaries and we show them things they cannot possibly answer and they just double down and double down and I've got my testimony and and and What about this and Joseph Smith means this to me?

01:24:30

It's that level of deception Really is what no what if you say no, then go ahead.

01:24:40

I was going to Bring up the issue. You said someone from the ministry. Yes Okay last night

01:24:47

I was reached out to by a member of our board of directors, right and He saw this stuff going on trying to make sense of the thread because it's

01:24:56

Twitter and he couldn't and So I simply right about that time someone on Twitter put the whole line together just like you showed

01:25:04

Yeah, and I showed it to him Now here we have a member of the board of directors someone who has the power to hold both of us accountable

01:25:13

And he's reaching out to me because these people are saying these things. Yep, my lion. Okay, I show him

01:25:20

Here's the thread He dismisses the whole thing.

01:25:25

Okay, that's all I need to see the end but you see they would give a people the impression that we aren't accountable that we can just simply do whatever we want and And fly off the handle we are accountable

01:25:39

But you see the people in our lives care about truth, yep, just like we do and They're not going to participate in a railroad and a frame job, which is what this has been from the beginning and It's just you know

01:26:02

We have in our whole history a lot of dishonest people that have come our path

01:26:07

It is amazing and it is Just the way it is and it'll be repeated over and over again.

01:26:14

These types of people never stop but God has ways of Dealing with this kind of thing, but folks one last comment.

01:26:26

This is why you must recognize Biblical parameters of witness

01:26:35

I I didn't see it's coming. I mean we've been using computers since they were

01:26:42

Not a whole lot of fun to use No, cuz I had

01:26:48

I had I had the compact when I was before I graduated in college that was 84 I graduated in 85 saying at an 84 yeah, yeah, so we've been using computers as 84 could not have foreseen and And screenshots became something that was really nice, you know, because you just grab it real quick and it's all subject to editing and dishonest utilization scriptural categories cannot be overthrown mouth of two or three witnesses and Especially with the stuff they're doing what they call like deep fakes.

01:27:30

Is that what is that what it's called? I Said something about it last year. There is this technology now where they are

01:27:37

Don't you remember the the one where they put? the

01:27:43

Terminator Arnold's face. Oh, yeah on someone on Someone else's and and it you can't tell the difference well

01:27:52

Go back to say 2002 2003 when we started doing mp3s, right and we first got which is now

01:28:00

Adobe audition right it was you could edit stuff Yeah, and I I was joking around with you about the fact that I can take with this software

01:28:08

I can take anybody and I can make them say anything. I want them to yep

01:28:14

All it takes is the amount of time to do to edit together string it together and next thing You know, I've got words coming out of your mouth that you would never believe and you'd never say but I could do it

01:28:25

And that technology is out there and it's not just audio anymore now now you can actually now you can actually deceive the eyes

01:28:33

That's the amazing thing. Yeah, that's that's the amazing thing. That's why we have to insist upon biblical standards of proof

01:28:43

The society Will go its direction. Yeah, and just think about what could happen

01:28:51

When this kind of behavior is being done by the government We've got a situation right now. We're very plainly a

01:28:59

An American patriot was framed. Yes by the FBI No, there's no question about it.

01:29:04

None. There should be an instant pardon and everybody who was involved. It should be thrown in his gap Yeah, no, there's no question about this and everyone sees it

01:29:14

The state there's a reason I don't trust government it's because I've read

01:29:20

Romans 1 and Government is a big conglomeration of people who fulfill

01:29:26

Romans 1 and you give them the kind of power we are now granting to the state and We disappear not only as citizens.

01:29:34

We just become worthless to the state so when it comes to Really talking about justice really doing justice

01:29:45

We have to stick with biblical standards of justice and proof

01:29:51

So this is an obvious lie. This is this is just situation where you know, sadly, we're seeing Christians who've just Lost it just beyond the pale Total destructive totally destructive of any credibility that they ever ever has done just bury it but what it points to is

01:30:15

If that can be done on this level What happens when it's done on the level of a court of law situations like that Amazing amazing really is so hey, we've gone for an hour and a half and we're supposed to be done.

01:30:35

So Tomorrow I want to Lay out again.

01:30:41

I'm not sure how much work I'm gonna be able to get done it tonight There's been a lot of things get in the way, unfortunately, but What parts of Wilson's argument do we need to focus upon what parts really aren't even relevant and I want to read through some portions of the conclusion because your conclusions where you're presenting what you think your research has proven and That's where the real issues lie

01:31:12

That's where the heart of the of the issue is. I do have

01:31:18

Something on stoic compatibilism that to be honest with you My suggestion would be if we do get to it tomorrow now,

01:31:27

I can't do this because I can't do caffeine because the heart situation

01:31:33

I had I Can't do caffeine, but my my suggestion for the rest of you is

01:31:38

Red Bull up Yeah Bill de

01:31:46

Blasio's worst nightmare Red Bull size 64 ounce mega guzzler because It ain't the most exciting stuff.

01:31:57

I will ever present to you, but the problem is Wilson talks of he conflates and throws together stoicism

01:32:05

Gnosticism manichaeism over and over and over and over again, even in the conclusion So we got to go there

01:32:12

Stoic determinism is not Gnostic determinism, which is not manichaean determinism, which is not Christian determinism the category separation is so great that I again am left stunned that this passed but We have to establish that and we will do so and we will do so thoroughly

01:32:34

And then we can do so again in debate. Yes, we can do all of that stuff But we do it in such a way that hopefully it's edifying one last thing personal request again, like I said earlier

01:32:47

These folks are on a mission right now. The mission is to destroy this ministry to destroy the works that we've put out

01:32:56

Works that have helped people And so when you see people repeating these lies, please link them to the refutations of these lies

01:33:05

Take a moment say that's a lie. It's been refuted multiple times go here and you'll see it.

01:33:12

Please be wise You don't have to get into fights about it But this is the kind of thing that causes tremendous damage in many other areas

01:33:22

It's sad to see it's pretty much Any of these individuals who are going to continue pushing these memes

01:33:30

Joel McDermott Paul Flynn Christine pack Lex Luthor and all these individuals

01:33:38

They are destroying not only their witness, but their reputation because this is a lie

01:33:44

It's been documented to be a lie. That's not even a question any longer, but it'll keep morphing and so Do us the kindness of saying actually you're you're you're you're getting bad information there

01:33:59

Check it out for yourself. You'll see it and Go from there. So Lord willing we'll be back tomorrow

01:34:05

I'm not sure when we'll figure out what the schedule looks like but back tomorrow with the aforementioned discussions.