June 21, 2016 Show with Terry Burlingame on “When God’s Will & My Will Disconnect”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet earth listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 21st day of June 2016, and I'm delighted that at the urging of my dear friend Joe Bianchi of Calvary Press, I'm delighted that we have for the very first time on this program an author named Terry Burlingame, and perhaps he can correct me in a moment if I'm pronouncing his name.

I'm using a pictorial image to remember his last name from now on, to remember the Olympic Games in Berlin when Jesse Owens won the track and field event for the United States, the Berlin Games. But we are going to be discussing a very needed topic to address, and also a very controversial issue, when God's will and my will disconnect.

This is a topic that is no doubt on the minds of many frustrated and sad Christians who are longing for something to occur in their lives, and they pray fervently to our Lord to answer their prayer, and for some reason it appears as if that is not happening.

It appears very often that God has turned a deaf ear to our prayers, and also there's a matter of theological controversy in regard to the will of God versus our will, and when they disconnect, as the title says.

But let me welcome our guest for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron, Terry Burlingame, who earned a Doctor of Ministry in Pastoral Counseling from Westminster Theological Seminary, and is a member of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors.

After retiring from the U .S. Army chaplaincy, he served as a senior pastor for 10 years, and currently he is a counselor with the Biblical Counseling Center in Jenison, Michigan, involved in ministries at Jamestown Bible Church, and is a member of the board at David's House Ministries.

Terry and his wife Barbara have three children and eight grandchildren, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr. Terry Burlingame.

Talk about what God's doing, and to see what he does during this period of time. And you did pronounce the name Chris. Okay, great. Well, I'm very happy about that, and I hope you.

Don't mind the way I remembered how to pronounce it. Chris has got to do anything he can.

And well, first of all, before we get into the heart of our subject, let me also introduce you to my co-host here, Reverend Buzz Taylor. Terry, it's good to meet you. It's good to meet you as well,.

And looking forward to hearing what you've got to say for us today. Thank you. Tell us something.

About the Biblical Counseling Center in Jenison, Michigan. Well, the Biblical Counseling Center.

Churches work with people. And what is David's House? Yeah, I was going to ask that also. Okay, David's House Ministries is a ministry here locally in the grant that provides a setting for adults with developmental disabilities, and currently we've sent four homes that will double the size based upon the word of God surrounding support needs for individuals.

What's with the name David's House? Where did you come up with that? Well, it's often David who lives there. Okay. I was wondering if King David was in there somewhere. So it's after David and his care for Mephibosheth, who did not care for himself in providing that home.

And so our desire is to help those who help the individual, but also help families, minister to families.

I want to make sure that I mention Calvary Press's website in case by some unfortunate circumstance I forget to mention it by the end of the program. I'm sure I won't, but I might as well also just make absolutely certain I don't.

Calvarypress .com, they are the publishers of the book we are discussing today, calvarypress .com, When God's Will and My Will Disconnect. First of all, what was the catalyst that led you to.

Write this book? ...of John, in line with what he had known to be true and what he had taught to be true as a young man, as a child. And so just in reading the scriptures and going through Genesis, going through the story of Joseph, I began to make some notes.

And I am a believer that when you read scripture, you ought to have a pen in hand and begin to write down things. Life and then comparing scripture with scripture and looking at our own lives and saying,.

And they're not always easy choices to make. Amen. And one of the chapters in your book is decision one, I choose to accept that I am not in control. That is something that reverberates in the memories of anyone who has ever been to a 12-step recovery program, that God is in control.

That is the initial decision that you list in the book. Obviously, many of the recovery programs fall apart in their steps after that in some way or shape or form and contradict scriptures in some fashion.

But tell us what you mean by this in your chapter in this book.

What do I really believe about God? I say, God is in control. He's a sovereign, loving, caring...designed...what he says he Got Peter chapter one...life and godliness. Others approach the circumstances and situations of their lives and say, okay, now what's God doing?

And how does he want me to respond in a manner that will be honoring to him?

Amen. And now let me give our email address if anybody listening would like to join us on the air with a question of your own. Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. That's C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And please feel free, if this is about an intimate, personal, private matter that has a sensitivity to it, you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable.

Otherwise, we ask of you to please give us your first name, city and state or country. And one of the things that is being taught today by many Christians, spanning theological lines everywhere from Pentecostals to even some fundamentalist Baptists and others, who would say that you are totally off-base, you are perhaps even heretical, and even, dare I say, you may be blaspheming the name of God by attaching Him to things that are absolutely horrific, filled with sin, things that are tragedies in our lives that involve our children.

I can still remember vividly not Joel Osteen, but his father. I think his father's name was Joe, if I'm not mistaken, or John Osteen. John Osteen was his father, his late father, when he was the host of that television program.

And he, I can still remember him with his arms folded, as he always used to march around from behind his pulpit with his arms folded, with an angry look on his face, unlike his son. And he would say that there are people out there who think that if your little itty-bitty baby is crossing the street and gets hit by a car and killed, that God had something to do with that.

God had nothing to do with it. That was the devil. And I remember thinking as a young Christian, listening to that, thinking to myself, you mean the devil can overpower God? Or was God asleep when that happened?

Or what was, how can you possibly take comfort in thinking that your child had been killed by the hands of Satan, and that God had nothing to do with it at all? Because that just means it's purposeless, has no meaning, and that to me, it would make the tragedy even a more devastating and horrific event, if you could.

Comment on that. What is going to happen now, and have to go back to the authorities, the things that I like, you need to accept the full word of God. And God's very, and we can see such, God just, I don't have the full picture.

As Chris and I heard a few weeks ago,.

We were at some meetings with Modi Bakam, and he pointed out that story with Joseph was actually, he showed the larger purpose of even that, wasn't just to preserve this family, but it was, there was already prophecies made, you know, about the messianic line, and that it was going to be through Judah, and so forth.

And really the whole thing of the story of Joseph was to save Judah, so that ultimately we would come up with Jesus the Christ. And you know, we have the entire Old Testament as a testimony of God's faithfulness to his plan, but if we don't understand that he is actually accomplishing something in the earth through history, then we're kind of lost if it's just like, you know, my own individual life is all that matters.

We have to see the larger picture. Well, I think you're so right there, Buzz, because sometimes in my life, my child, yeah, everything else. Yeah, and.

I can, I can still vividly remember when I was working for a major Christian radio station, when 9 -11 occurred, the day that will remain an infamy that is known by the date, September 11th, and when the madmen or evil men crashed their planes into the World Trade Center, and you could actually see the World Trade Center from the office building that the radio station was in, where the conference room is in, you could see the World Trade Center from there, and providentially, I was not in work that day because I was called, I received a phone call that night before that, that the meeting had been canceled, and so I would not have been anywhere near the World Trade Center, but it would have definitely kept me in New Jersey overnight, where the, where the radio station was.

I doubt that I would have been able to get back to to Long Island that evening if I had gone in, but I can remember that the station had been airing words of encouragement and comfort by various pastors, and over and over and over again, now, I'm not talking about liberal pastors, I'm talking about conservative, Bible-believing pastors, even some fundamentalist Baptist pastors, saying, you're going to hear people saying that God had something to do with this.

Don't listen to that lie. God had nothing to do with what happened on September 11th. That is just a lie of Satan, straight from the pit of hell, and I remember thinking to myself, what are these Christians talking about?

I mean, if God is not impotent and weak, and if He cannot be overcome by the plan and will of Satan, or even sinful men, how on earth could you worship Him as being an all-powerful and almighty God? It doesn't, it doesn't, those things don't match.

That's why you have to come back to the fact, who, what, who do I believe? Well, I believe it comes back to how that works in the fullness of God's redemptive plan. If God's in control, I've got to believe the fact that He was not surprised by that event, in a powerful way, and we don't have any expectation of tomorrow, if my God's not in.

Control. And one thing that we do know with absolute certainty is that Jesus wants us to use events like this, when they occur, to remind us of our need to repent, because that's exactly what He told those asking Him about, those who perished when the Tower of Siloam collapsed.

And that was a much less significant event than what happened in New York City on September 11th. In New York City, there were thousands of people died, and a comparative handful died when the Tower of Siloam had collapsed.

And one of the things that, when people have said to me that God can never be involved in evil events that are accomplished by wicked men in rebellion, well, I always point them to 2 Samuel 12, when Nathan the prophet reveals to David that he is the evil man that Nathan was describing in a parable about a man whose precious pet sheep that he cared for like his child was killed and eaten by wicked men, and David was boiling with anger over it, and wanted to enact vengeance upon these people.

And Nathan said that he was the man, and he was basically revealing to him how he had done such an abhorrent thing in the sight of God, in the murder of Uriah and the adultery with Bathsheba, and of course the murder of Uriah, the Hittite, to cover it up, because Bathsheba was pregnant.

And when Nathan is letting David know how God is going to chastise him, and in fact God is speaking through Nathan, he says to David,. Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household.

I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. Indeed, you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel and under the sun.

This is God telling David that he is going to bring about wicked and evil things that even include adultery in the sight of all Israel. That's pretty remarkable, isn't it?

Absolutely. We have to go to a break right now, and we do have some listeners online.

Waiting to have their questions asked and answered on air by Terry Burlingame, and our email address, if you'd like to join them, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages with Terry Burlingame, and when God's will and my will disconnect, don't go away.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Zarnes, and if you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron, our guest is Terry Berlingame, and we are discussing his new book, Hot Off The Press, When God's Will and My Will Disconnect, available now through CalvaryPress .com.

That's CalvaryPress .com. And we have a couple of listeners online who are asking questions. The first is from Tom in West Islet, Long Island, New York. He asks, I'm in the middle of one tough season.

My daughter is in recovery after relapsing, losing my job at the end of the year. No real clear answers on either front. I feel the weight of the world on my shoulders. I read my Bible every day and pray unceasingly, but I feel lacking in my trust in His promises.

How does one praise authentically when you feel so burdened? How do I find the strength to be patient? How do I know what doors are the ones He wishes me to walk through? That is a tremendous series of questions there from Tom in West Islet, and if you could go.

Through those questions, Terry. Wow, things of life, and lacking that, and having the combat will, and what is, was he faithful when your daughter was doing well? Was he faithful when he saved you? And if he is still faithful, is he not going to help you?

You know, and we liken this somewhat, Tom, to, you know, what Peter talks about, what Paul talks about, the trials of our faith. What's he doing with those to develop, and I don't see how that's going to, what your next job is going to look like, all you need to do today.

He calls upon, you know, how do I know which door to, if you have two doors, and they're all open, are ready to be open, choose one. Choose one to go through, the one that makes the best sense for you at this point in time.

Remain faithful, and this is key, that God is going to work in you, as well as for his glory. You know, you were talking about, of course, we have to, you know, watch our.

Attitudes during these times of trust, and of course, James really directly dealt with that issue, when he says to consider it joy when you encounter various trials. Now, when he's talking about various trials, I don't think he's talking about you stubbed your toe, you know.

I think he's talking about things like a daughter going through recovery, and losing a job, and things like that. When you encounter various trials, and, you know, we look at that and say, oh, be real.

How can you consider that joy? And even then, they were being persecuted for their faith, and being tortured and killed. But the next word in that text is knowing, so there's something we're supposed to know about what's happening, and though I think it's dangerous to try to find a one to one correspondence, like I did this, so he's punishing me, yet James says that the trying of our faith produces endurance, let it have its perfect work that we can be complete and lacking in nothing.

And then he says, if you lack wisdom, and he's, of course, that's in the context of the suffering, you know, ask God, and, and, you know, he's not going to get mad at you, unless, of course, he gives one stipulation, you know, you don't want to confront God, it says to ask in faith, nothing wavering, you know, we can say, Lord, what are you trying to accomplish in my life?

Or we can say, God, would you please stop picking on me? If we say, Lord, stop picking on me, he's going to give us another test, because we didn't learn yet. But if we learn the lesson that he's got for us, then what we rejoice later, because we can look back and say, this is what he taught me through this.

While I'm in it, I don't know that. But you know, I've developed the habit in my own life, when I get to my ropes end, and there's nothing to do but hang on. I realized, you know, in three months from now, I'm going to know exactly how this worked out.

And three months later, wow, it really did. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think one of the things to recognize, who is it on us? No, no, he does not. He really doesn't. We feel that way at times. I have to go back and not base what I do based on my feelings, based rather upon what I know to be true.

I can't deny my feelings. I wrote later on the book about, you know, we have emotions that work through our emotions, and those are real, those emotions that we face. I can't deny that. By the way, go ahead.

I'm sorry, I interrupted you there, Bertha. Okay. I reminded the scripture in First Corinthians 10. And we know this well, he says, no key for this whole path that you might be able to endure. And there's where the perseverance comes.

And by the way, Tom in West Islip, if you give me your full mailing address, we're going to send you a free copy of our guest book, When God's Will and My Will Disconnect by Terry Berlingame, compliments of calvarypress .com, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who's shipping it out to you at no cost to us at cvbbs .com, cvbbs .com.

And we thank Calvary Press and Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for shipping that book out to you. And, you know, I just recently heard one of the most precious gifts in the realm of pastors and authors and preachers that God has given to the church, Geoffrey Thomas from Wales, from Aberystwyth, Wales.

He told me to pronounce it correctly. And I just saw him recently speak at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and he was preaching on Romans 8 .28. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good, to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose.

And some translations even say, to those who are the called, according to his purpose. And he said, Geoff Thomas said that a way of exegeting that passage when it's boiled down to its essence, he said, whenever, and he is speaking to Christians, of course, those who are disciples of Christ, whenever we ask God for something, he will either give us what we ask for, or he will give us something better.

And I just loved that because he was not saying this like a name-it-and-claim-it preacher. He was talking about even if we are going through the most horrific trial in our lives, and even if we never clearly see the good that is being done for us and to us in this life, we can trust in knowing that he is giving us something better than we even asked him for, and that it will work out for that purpose.

So I just want to thank Geoff Thomas for that jewel that he gave to me on Sunday. We also have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, who asks, would you say that one of the biggest heresies of our day that abuses the providence.

Of God is the prosperity movement? Terry? How God never promises to us that things will, yeah, and really is not true, and have an open expectation which is not going to be fulfilled.

Because God does not promise. Yeah, and the way that that sin of the prosperity movement just gives a hopelessness to people who are being told that everything that is happening around them that's bringing them sadness and grief and sorrow, that is all because they don't have enough faith.

And you could be the most godly person in the world and be going through these tragedies in your life, and these kinds of lies can bring you to the very end of your rope, of the rope, or your rope. And, you know, it's like the prosperity movement is being used by Satan, the accuser, of just basically whispering in the true Christian's ear, you know why you're going through this, don't you?

It's just because you're not good enough, your faith isn't strong enough, you're never going to be good enough, and you're never going to be strong enough. You might as well just give up. Why even bother with this Christianity nonsense?

You know, I've met people who were members of churches and denominations and aberrant Christian groups that put people on the treadmill of works righteousness, and they did give up after a while. They just said to themselves and to everybody else, I really did try my best, but I'm being told every week that I could lose my salvation if I don't live up to this or that, and that everything that's negative around me is because of my faith being too weak.

Well, it's never going to be stronger. I just give up. Thankfully, several of these people that I know that went through that phase were restored to the body of Christ by God's grace and into a much clearer biblical truth in regard to God's grace and so on.

But do you have any comment about that, about the hopelessness? It's not just technically heresy in a discussion that theologians may have in a study over cigars and brandy. This is a thing that could rob people.

Of all hope and joy in the Christian life. Well, I think you're absolutely right. And whereas a legion, you believe in him because I have to go all of that. If I wallow in what has happened and that God hasn't just made it all better.

I'm chapter eight. Yeah. Well,.

Tell me how can we know. This is kind of a loaded question because I think I know where you're going to answer this, but how can we know the difference between my will and God's will?

And what I am doing is that in harmony, we go back now, let me go back to Tom's question earlier, which door do I go through? Yes. Well, is there any door that is out of harmony with the will of God? He's developed that are in harmony with Christ.

That's God. This job or this job,.

Go to this school or that school. Yes. That's what I was in reference to because that's the way a lot of people think is like, there is this dot that is the center of God's will. And like, you know, he's got the special girl for me to marry.

And if I don't find her and marry her, I'm going to be a failure in marriage. And unfortunately, so is she, because I didn't.

Get her. Or you may be in love with someone that you are hoping is the one that God has chosen for you. And it may even look that way for a while. And the difference between knowing the prescribed will of God and the decreed will of God is that that's the part that's not always easy when you, you know, when you are disobeying God, when you look at the scriptures, but there are certain things, obviously, that he has decreed that we don't know, like whom we're going to marry and.

So on. Obviously, they have to be willing. Find someone you like, you know, walking in harmony with the word of God and, you know, and just go ahead and get married. Yeah, well, you answered.

Pretty much like I expected you to. And I'm glad for that because God is much more concerned about what we are than what we do. Because if we are what we're supposed to be, we will be doing what.

We're supposed to be doing. Absolutely. By the way, Tyler and Mastic Beach, you have also won a free copy of When God's Will and My Will Disconnect by our guest Terry Burlingame. Tyler is getting a pretty good library now.

Compliments of calvarypress .com. And we look forward to other listeners to email us your questions at chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. And we're going to be going to a break in a minute.

But before we go to the break, I'd like to bring up another chapter in your book and have you to start contemplating it even before we go into the break. Decision two is I choose to confess sin. By the way, I love how a Calvinist has so many decisions in a book, kind of trip up the hyper-Calvinists out there.

But I choose to confess sin. If you could tell us a bit about that before the break,.

And then we'll continue when we return. And I say this all the other day, my hunch is against and living in that sin and not willing to. Amen. And we're going to go to a break right now. And.

Before we go to the break, I want to ask you a question so you can have the break period to mill it over a bit. Do you not believe, since you are a believer in the doctrines of sovereign grace and God's sovereign control over all things, that even if we're going to take Romans 8 .28 as a promise that we can cling to, can we not even say, and this is a dangerous thing to say because people will misread what I'm saying and think that I'm giving an excuse for sin or giving people a relaxed attitude towards sin or thinking they have a liberty to sin.

But can we not, especially if our lives are in shambles because of sin that we have committed, serious, grievous, scandalous public sin perhaps, that when we are in repentance and we are trying to bring about restoration with those that we love and in every other human connection that we have on this earth, not to mention to be brought in the right fellowship with God himself, can we not even view these wicked deeds and sins that we ourselves have committed as being part of God's plan that will be worked together for our good?

Very controversial question, a question that may even evoke anger in some of my listeners, but I think it's a truth that needs to be asked, or an important question I should say that needs to be asked, and we'll get your answer from it right after these messages.

If you'd like to join us on the air as well, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

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Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times. 631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in for the last hour and the next hour to come, our guest today is Terry Burlingame.

We're discussing his book, When God's Will and My Will Disconnect, hot off the press, from calvarypress .com. And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

Before the break, Terry, I asked you, do even our sins work together for the good for those who love God and are called according to.

His purpose? Well, we're totally responsible. He gives us that very, he tells us that very clearly. I'm responsible for every one of my actions. I think about the fact that it's in James chapter one. He says, as you mentioned earlier, Chris, that has gone, have made circumstances, responsibility for that and say, I'm the one who was enticed.

I am the one who made the choice to sin. And I'm responsible for that sin. I think of what, what did David say? We mentioned earlier this, what do you say against thee and thee only have I, that's one of the reasons you go back to in this song, responsible, contrary to your, your will.