The New York Times Was Pro-Life?!

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All right, everyone, welcome to the

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After Show. On today with Dr. George Grant. It's amazing. I absolutely love that we have this episode now to be able to share and communicate these things.

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And so, first of all, I want to say as we start the After Show, if you're watching this right now, it's because you guys partner with us as a church.

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You make everything that we do possible, and that means so much to us, so we're so very thankful for you guys.

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Some of you guys have been with us since the very, very beginning, and everything that you see coming from Apologia Church, the teaching arm of our church, the outreach, the evangelism, it's made possible because of you, because you partner with us as a church.

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So first and foremost, thank you very, very much. It means so much to us. We wanted to do just a little bit of an

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After Show here with Dr. Grant while we have some time. Dr. Grant, thank you again for being with us today on the show.

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Oh, my joy. Thank you for writing these books and for all the stuff that you've done. Thank you. You've really impacted my son and my family, and so we are very, very thankful for you.

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Dr. Grant, you ended, I think, in the perfect place, and I'm so glad that I already knew what you were going to answer and how you were going to respond to that, but I'm glad that you did.

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You talked about the answer is, at this point, the proclamation of the gospel, and I think that's so important because you mentioned this void where the church sort of steps away from culture and doesn't speak the truth into culture, and so Margaret Sanger leaps into that and just does so much devastation.

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And so here we are now with the result of a lot of her labor and many other people and the things that she was able to get into effect, and we have 60 million dead babies behind us and counting, 3 ,000 babies a day are murdered in our nation.

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Planned Parenthood is killing about 1 ,000 of those babies a day, and we often see people in the pro -life movement,

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Dr. Grant, do just what you said. They'll say things like, we just need to convince people biologically that it's a human, and then they won't want to kill it, or they argue statistics, or they talk about cleaner abortion clinics and widening the hallways.

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They talk about, you know, that's sort of like, let's attack this in a way where we take it back to our approach. And I'll just mention quickly,

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Dr. Grant, that last year I was able to get an interview with the Vice President of National Rights at Life, and he said explicitly in that interview, and he wasn't at all ashamed of it, this was just their perspective, he said they don't want to call it murder, and he said they want to take a backdoor approach and not use

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Christian language, they don't want to use the word of God, they just essentially want to convince people that it's biologically a human.

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Can you speak to that? Because from my perspective as a Christian, as a minister of the gospel, that's not going to accomplish enough to where we change human hearts, where people, and the

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Bible says those who hate me love death, and Romans 3, go ahead. My question always to somebody who makes that argument is, well how's that working for you so far?

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Here we are, an entire generation has gone by as we've made that argument, as we've tried the incremental approach, and hey,

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I'm grateful for any incremental approaches that we achieve, I'm not satisfied with them, and I'm not going to put my effort and my energy into those things, but I'm not going to despise the day of small beginnings,

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I appreciate a step -by -step approach, but in American history we actually have had a successful pro -life movement in the past, in the 1870s, and 80s, and 90s, when abortion was legal, when there were flourishing abortion trades, when peddlers were taking abortifacient pills all the way to the

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Pacific from manufacturers in Ohio and New York, and a pro -life movement arose, a coalition of politicians, lawyers, doctors, and pastors, led by the pastors, starting with the

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Presbyterian Church in New York City, and a very, very prominent pro -life newspaper in New York City called the

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New York Times, and together they transformed the whole picture of medical practice in the

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US, created the American Medical Association, banned abortion, and banned all kinds of other lewd and manipulative medical practices, and it was forthright, and it was unapologetic in proclaiming the gospel from the start.

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That's the only time we've seen a successful pro -life movement in the history of the

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United States, but we don't have to stop there, we can go back through the age of Christendom.

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Whenever the horrors of abortion, infanticide, Sartre, human sacrifice, any time that that has been overcome as a cultural norm and banned altogether, to the point that it was altogether taboo, has been when the gospel has been proclaimed.

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Yes. The gospel's the only possible answer. Wow. So I think you hit the nail on the head there,

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Dr. Grant. How important is it that this starts with the churches, and as you said, with pastors?

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Yeah, it's got to start from the pulpits, it's got to start from the way we understand the scriptures, it's got to start from the way we understand what our legacy as Christians are, it's got to start with our understanding of what missions actually is, and it's got to start there, or it's a non -starter.

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So if we put our trust in the political process, in one more Supreme Court judge, and you know, a host of other things that, you know, the incremental steps that are taken in state legislatures, which again,

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I'm grateful for any halt to the bloodletting. Yes.

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But that's not an answer. Right. That's merely a step along the way toward the actual answer.

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Yeah. So if we're going to have the answer, it's got to start in the church, and it's got to start in a local church that's small and simply is faithful in proclaiming the gospel, and changing one life at a time, one disciple at a time, going forth into the world to affect their arenas and disciplines one at a time.

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That's the way it's always done. Praise God. Amen. Wow. Yeah, and we agree,

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Dr. Grant. Obviously, we're all very, very grateful for every child that God saves through some incremental legislation, but it's in terms of principle, right?

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Like, if you just fight for that in terms of principle, well, then you're losing the whole battle because you're just losing the message.

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You know, what's actually happening? We're murdering children, and you know, and... I was asked one time by the

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Speaker of the House of the State of Tennessee if a particular measure that they were fighting for, and I was asked to come and speak, and the question was,

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Dr. Grant, will you now be satisfied? If we pass this piece of legislation, will you be satisfied?

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And my response was, oh, no, of course not. It's one step along the way.

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It's a right step. It's a good step, but it's not a sufficient step. Mm -hmm.

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Right. It's just a start. That's right. That's right. Well, praise

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God. We're grateful for you, Dr. Grant, and we're looking forward to doing a lot more with you, and I just want you to be encouraged.

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I know that you're always very busy, and you do so much work, and you've invested so much of your life in the kingdom of God and education and proclaiming the gospel and telling the history of God's providence, and I just want you to be encouraged.

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There's so much of your work that has affected us, affected my own family personally, and God is using it to change the world, brother, so keep fighting.

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God bless you. God bless you, brother. Church have courage. That's right. That's right. All right. Well, hope to talk to you soon, brother.

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Bless you. Thank you so much. God bless. All right. Well, hey, fantastic, right, guys? Yeah. So there you go.

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So that was Dr. George Grant. Everybody, thank you so much for watching. We're going to do what we can to get the information from this into the hands of as many people as possible and before as many people as possible.

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I truly encourage you guys to get Killer Angel. You can get it at kingsmeadow .com. You can, of course, also get it on Amazon.

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It's not a very, very big book, so it's not overwhelming. My son, Sage, he read it. He said it was very, very good.

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Hey, what about that situation with the pro -life movement in the 1870s, 80s, and 90s?

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I didn't know that. New York Times? What's up, New York Times? American Medical Association? Sounds like the New York Times needs to repent.

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Sounds like Christianity has changed your world, right? It's amazing. Okay, can

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I just... Let's just finish with this thought. How crazy is it that we're always talking about that? We're always talking about, like, you have

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Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, Harvard. Now you hear about New York Times, American Medical Association, all like the work of Christians in history, right?

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And you go, what in the world happened? Because now you don't see New York Times as the bastion of things pro -life and Christian, right?

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But these are gifts that Christianity, the church, gave to the world. And look, where we're at now is this complete revolution has taken place, all these institutions that the church built taken over, and I think that just says so much, and I do hope, in some measure, what

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God is doing through ministries like Dr. Grant's and Apologia Church is really planting those seeds, and I do think we're starting to see the buds, like little things coming out.

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That's my hope. I think even just... I think that those little first fruits are even just us considering it a worldview issue and not attacking just the issue.

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Because, well, Dr. Grant said it very well that she had a specific worldview that she was propagating, and I think it was in...

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What was it? She would release this little publication, I think it was called The Woman Rebel, and a very popular slogan that they would use in that was, no gods, no masters.

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And I think that's a great representation of her worldview. Yeah, and the feminism that currently exists. Right. And so that's...

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I mean, that is the world we live in today, no gods, no masters, right? There's obviously some subtleties to that we could get into, but we don't...

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But obviously, we don't subscribe to that worldview. We would say one

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God, one master, right? So that's where the issue exists. Of course, there's all these little offshoots of what's really going on, but that's the big thing with Margaret Sanger is she managed to get this worldview going, and we don't have to abide by that worldview.

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We don't believe it. It's not true. So here's something that brings me encouragement, because there's just no question.

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I know what God says he's gonna do in the world. I know he says that Jesus is gonna win, and I know that no one can thwart God's kingdom and his sovereignty, but you have to confess to the taxing element of it all when you look around you and you see a culture that just betrays so much of our history and the gospel that happened here, and you see just so much just evil.

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Did you see today the thing that David Daledine released today, the new video?

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I mean, it's just horrifying. First thing I woke up to this morning, I see that. I play that video, and I'm just...

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I honest to God, I don't always get tears in my eyes, but I got tears in my eyes. I was like, I can't believe I'm watching this, and that's the result of the work of a woman like this, right?

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Okay, so my point is you look at it and you go, oh my goodness, this monstrosity. It's horrible, and it does take your breath away sometimes.

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You're like, how in the world are we gonna overcome this? But I just wanna say, I do consider at times that you look at the work of someone like Margaret Sanger and other revolutionaries like her, and the truth is is that you are able to completely transform a culture within a generation.

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Now, here's my point. If it can happen with unbelievers in a generation so quickly, then it certainly can happen with the truth and the work of the gospel in the church.

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It can happen, but it has to start. So it's like that moment in the interview just now with Dr.

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Grant where he says she's doing all this stuff, and it's revolution, it's sexual revolution, it's eugenics, population control, all these different things, and she comes into it, and he just mentions it, and then there's the void of the church.

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The church just goes, yeah, I'm not gonna say anything. I'm not gonna fight. I'm not really gonna get into this and really resist.

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I mean, that's a huge problem because look at the weakness of these arguments. Terrible. Is there any rationalization for Margaret Sanger being a hero?

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No, there's none other than, well, we're just gonna kind of act like she didn't do a lot of stuff. That's such a weak argument.

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That's not an argument at all. All it would take is for someone to say she was not a hero. Right. She wasn't.

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Nope. Right. She wasn't great. If you want to believe she was, okay, but you're deluded. Right. Yeah. Yep.

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And, you know, we have heroes. We have real heroes, and she is celebrated all the time.

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Hillary Clinton, that's my hero. Every year the award. Which I just don't understand. Is there like some shortage of reproductive rights heroes?

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Like why? They can't find anyone else other than a racist? Well, no, and it's interesting like now that you mention it.

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She was friends with Nazis. Shortage. Well, it's like, and it's, so we'll talk, we'll finish,

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I guess we'll finish with this thought. So I'm reading this book right now by Dr.

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Willie Parker. He is the most famous abortionist in the world. He says in his book, he sees as many as 25, 30 to 50 women a day.

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He travels from like Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia. He's an itinerant abortionist, and so he goes back and forth.

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Well, this is his book. It's like 130 some odd pages. Life's work, a moral argument for choice.

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I think I'm thinking about doing a response to it called Life's Dirt. And anyway, so Cecil Richards, president of Planned Parenthood, gives the plug for it.

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Gloria Steinem, just, and they're like, it's such a wonderful book. I wish everyone in America would read this book.

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And it's, let me just say, it's horrible. It's horrible. It's poorly written. The guy's a narcissist.

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He's just praising himself throughout the book, and he thinks he's a martyr. And these are their heroes. These are their heroes.

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This guy. I've listened to hours of the man talking now, and these are their heroes.

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And let me just say right now, they're not giants. They're not. Yeah. No gods, no masters does not play out long term.

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It doesn't look great. Yeah. Here's a guy who's killing babies every single day by the dozens, and he doesn't have a coherent argument.

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It's not compelling. It's not, it doesn't draw you in. It's not exciting. He's just a guy that has, he has the ability to be very erudite, and he's soft -spoken.

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He's a good looking man, handsome guy, salt and pepper beard, you know, older guy in his fifties, black guy.

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And so they go, oh, there's a guy that can represent us. Here's a guy that murders babies on a daily, and he seems so pleasant, like, and winsome.

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And so there's our hero, right? And he's just, he's awful and not impressive. Let me just say it.

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Right. Well, it's funny, Joy, you mentioned there's like a shortage of, you know, and, and remember the second to last video that Dalladin released, they were at the

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George Tiller, like memorial dinner, right? And, you know, here's a, here's a guy that abortions that was murdered.

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And so they had a memorial dinner for this guy who, you know, like Willie Parker was one of the most famous abortionists.

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And it's just, yes. So backwards. And them being a hero is reliant on people just pretending a bunch of stuff doesn't happen or ignoring bad arguments.

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I don't know, like what constitutes a hero these days. You agree with me. You tell me what I want to hear. You're my hero.

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Right. That's not, that's right. Even literally speaking, the word does not mean like, you just agree with, you say what

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I say, you do what I want. It's an echo chamber. So you're my hero. No, it's just, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

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You know, I'll be honest. I got the book and I thought there's some potential stuff in the future that might happen.

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And so I was like, well, I need to read this man, this man's arguments and be ready for it. And I have to say thoroughly, and I don't mean this in any braggadocious way, or I'm not trying to be nasty, mean spirit, but thoroughly unimpressed.

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Right. You feel prepared. There's nothing to deal with. It's just literally the most adolescent elementary level kind of arguments.

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And it's just poor. And my thought is only the judgment of God could allow something like this to happen, that a man like this could kill this many babies a day and could be this a well -known author and hero to this movement.

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And it's nothing. I mean, a woman, woman spoken, one of those things almost in tears of how grateful she was for his work and his talk and how it really moved her.

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And I'm like, wow, there's really, the bar is not set very high guys. So the church just needs to get involved.

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Not only do they approve, but they applaud. That's right. That's right. All right, guys. So again, thank you so much for everything you're doing to make everything we do possible.

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So thank you very, very much. Thank you for those of you guys that have been with us again from the very beginning. Everything you guys do means so much for us to us.

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