Evangelist Tim Lee on Ergun Caner's “Misstatements”

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic here is James White well here we are on the well, it's 24th of May and Got two things I have to talk about and I have to talk about them.

I don't want to talk about them. I'll be perfectly honest with you, but I don't see much of a choice if we're going to remain on the cutting edge of Apologetic whatever it is we do. But I'm going to. I'm not gonna start where you expect me to start even though we have 75 people in our chat show.

I'm not sure why we have 75 people in there today. Maybe there are some people fleeing the end of the world. I don't know but we'll we'll get to that Incredible mess, which I even saw on the Today Show this morning in in a minute but first I We need to do an update on the great Evangelical cover-up I mentioned last week the news the big news.

In fact, we need a press release on Eric and Kanner's website. To let us know. That Eric and Kanner though. He has never lied. Was not only dismissed as president of Liberty Theological Seminary, but now has been dismissed by Liberty University and Toto.

Even though we're told that a teaching contract was extended to him. He has left Liberty and Has gone to Arlington Baptist Bible College a school with all of a little less than 150 students. I would imagine Kanner had some classes at Liberty with more than 150 students, but a King James only fundamentalist Bible College.

I Mentioned last week. I don't see that as a real good fit. You know, I just I Can you tase somebody when they're wearing a white shirt and a dark tie, is that really possible? I'm not. I'm not sure how that works.

But anyway That was interesting in and of itself, but then Yesterday or the day before yesterday wanted to. A blog article appeared at the FBC Jack's watchdog blog. That pretty much paralleled the information.

I have received from inside Liberty. We've always said that Radio Free Geneva was from a bunker deep beneath Liberty University. So we might be able to hear things that other people can't hear you never know.

You never know has anyone really looked. Anyway. That's what he was so busy doing last year how where is that thing anyway. Anyhow The the information pretty much parallel what I have been told and You know, basically the idea was that you know Kanner was given a certain amount of time to find some place to go, but but he needed to go and What is really interesting were the comments that were posted that They give us some more insight specifically Comments by one evangelist Tim Lee and This fellow looks like he's a Marine and he lost his legs.

I think in Vietnam. I don't know his whole story. I've never heard him speak don't know anything about him. All I know is According to him quote. I was the chairman of the committee that crafted the statement concerning Ergen.

Wow. We wondered who was on the committee. We wondered who did the investigation and all the rest of these things that resulted in his no longer being president, but still teaching at Liberty and He is quoted on Kanner's website.

About being so excited that Ergen Kanner had gone to Arlington Baptist Bible College. But twice in his comments Evangelist Tim Lee says we never once found that he lied. We never once found that he lied instead.

We did find numerous instances of Misspeaking. Misspeaking one word he was rebuked and reprimanded and I can promise you much more care. Promise you much more careful about what he says and how he says it.

He was rebuked and reprimanded for misstatements for misspeaking. Why do you rebuke people for misspeaking? I? Mean all the examples for example. He himself gave an example of what he means by misspeaking.

He said in front of 10 ,000 people that day I said I stepped on a 60-pound mine and it blew me several feet in the air ripping both of my bodies off my leg. Now the mine didn't rip both of my bodies off my leg as I only have one body rip both of my legs off.

My body. I had said it right hundreds and hundreds of times, but that day. I got it wrong my children listening back in Dallas via internet they were on the floor with laughter. That's a misstatement.

That's a misstatement it you meant to say certain words in other words got in the way. We've all done that. There are different kinds of misstatements. I've given you an example of a misstatement that I made a number of times.

I got a wrong date from history stuck in my mind and I don't know how it got there, but I many times talked about the 1555 Stephanus, Texas 1550. I Had an extra five in there. I've corrected that now, but it was a misstatement.

Honest I wasn't trying to create a persona about myself or anything else in the process those are misstatements. We we've even heard Ernie Cantor Talking about well, you know you could you could you get the names your kids wrong.

I will admit. That's something I've never done. I don't know how you would do that, but hey, okay. These are misstatements, but we all know That for it to be true that we never once found that he lied that means That means this committee the chairman of this committee a man with a proud service record a war hero Has a level of naivete that is absolutely shocking and should mean that he should never be allowed to go to a used car store by himself.

That's the only way I can put it folks. We can tell the difference between lies and misstatements if You are a if you're a police detective. You're trained to be able to detect what Inconsistencies in people's stories and be able to detect misstatements versus lies.

Now a Misstatement like the one that he gave about blowing his bodies off of his leg. That's an obvious one. That's just a Tongue gets in front of your eye teeth can't see what you're saying type situation those are those are easy.

And Misstating a date from ancient church history. Getting the date of the Council of Constantinople along or something like that. Those are those are easy but you see All of us all of us adults anyways Know that there are certain telltale signs to lies.

Misstatements are random Misstatements do not have Connection with other misstatements that just happen to be on the same subject and You don't generally repeat misstatements over and over again unless it's the type of thing where I got the wrong date in my mind.

You don't tend to repeat them and then you never Expand upon them if you do, they're not misstatements. You are saying those words purposely and for a meaning so let's think about some of Ergen Kanner's speaking and misstatements.

Not only did he make the statements But he also put them in print. Now, do you really think that? Evangelist Tim Lee Would put his misstatement into print so that it appeared on his website in his bio for years on end.

More than one website when Ergen Kanner Claimed to have come to the United States in 1978 or 1979 when his bio said 1979 on the Liberty web page for months if not years on end. And he repeated this in numerous contexts in numerous places.

How can that be a misstatement when it was a decade off? Did he not know what was on his websites. When you have something in print and that is repeated over and over again in numerous different contexts, how can that be a misstatement?

Can you really get the difference between when you were a teenager and when you were just a two-year-old kid? Mixed up in your mind so that you keep repeating the wrong thing and even put it into printed material.

Is that is that a misstatement? And Given that it's connected with other Misstatements like I was born in Istanbul. Which he repeated more than once in different contexts and misstatements generally are one-time thing.

Did he really think he was born in Istanbul and he makes the argument. Mr. Lee makes the argument. Well, you know 98 out of 100 times. You got it, right? Really? How many times does he give us where he really was born in his testimonies between say 2001 and 2010.

February of 2010 specifically when yours truly started Blogging about this stuff. Where did he get it, right? Now He did get it, right and This is further evidence. This wasn't a misstatement because he when you make misstatements, you don't say the correct thing to certain groups and misstatements to other groups.

And that's exactly what Eric and Kander did when speaking to a Turkish newspaper. All of a sudden he was honest he he did no misstatements. He didn't claim to be able to speak Arabic or Turkish. And he knew where he was born.

He knew he was born in Sweden not in Turkey and he knew he grew up in Ohio not in Turkey or Istanbul. Never made any claims about training in madrasas in Beirut or Cairo or Istanbul. Did he not one talking to people who could check him out?

No. No, I didn't didn't do that. But when talking to gullible groups large groups who would feed on his on his His stories all of a sudden misstatements come popping out all over the place again you see I Bet you evangelist Tim Lee Doesn't appreciate it when people are discovered as many people have been discovered recently about claiming to be military personnel with war service.

Various people in politics. People claim to be Navy SEALs and they weren't Navy SEALs and I'm sure that evangelist Tim Lee doesn't like that. I bet you he'd be able to recognize Anybody who claimed to have served in Vietnam, but didn't I bet you he'd be able to Sort of sort of root him out.

Don't you think he'd be able to tell where the errors are in the story? Don't you think and yet? He'll accept Ergen Kanner story and say he never lied. He never lied about training and madrasas and Beirut and Cairo.

What about what about those videos where he's he's talking about speaking Arabic and what about his website where it talks about him? Debating imams in mosques in Arabic, it's really hard to do when you can't actually speak Arabic and when we have no evidence of any Muslim imam that will come forward and say oh, yes, I debated Ergen Kanner.

No one will do that because he doesn't do Debates was it a misstatement to say that his father brought his wives with him to America When he only had had one. And you notice that the theme here. They're all related the same thing to create this persona of Ergen Kanner being this expert on Islam.

Do misstatements do they they breed other misstatements on the same subjects? Evangelist Tim Lee knows that none of that's true and that's why it's really hard for me to understand How the chairman of the committee that drafted the statement which was a non-statement.

It was a political statement. It was a a statement that only made the situation worse. It didn't make it better. Evangelist Tim Lee knows that Ergen Kanner did lie and if you say that someone didn't lie When you know they did lie, is that a lie itself or is that just a misstatement.

That would be the question I I wrote to evangelist Tim Lee. I've invited him to come on the program. I would like to talk to him about that. I'd like to ask him about these things I he could he could really shed some light on all this.

But as long as people keep saying misstatement just as a misstatement this great evangelical cover-up will continue on and all those quote-unquote discernment ministries that have been involved in propagating this cover-up Will demonstrate once again that there's not much in the way of discernment.

Going on there. It's interesting the blog had said hey way to go Liberty you did something right and then The chairman of the committee comes along and says well not really we didn't do anything right?

We didn't actually get rid of him. He never lied about anything. If you can look at Ergen Kanner's Entire fallacious story is oh no lies there. Um Why do you expect the world to take you seriously about anything else I Mean really why do you I I don't know in the midst of all this I'll have to admit that that story was all the more depressing because of what we all or at least some of us listened to yesterday.

News came out during the day that Harold camping was going to Do an open forum broadcast of some type that would involve a statement and I Was honestly Hoping I really was I'll be honest with you. I was hope I'm so tired this whole thing.

I was honestly hoping that He'd be willing to come out and say I blew it I was wrong I Was wrong in 94 I was wrong in 2011. It's time for me to stop being wrong and Admit that I am NOT the world's greatest Bible teacher, and I do not have access to the secret Insights of Daniel chapter 12 the little book of Daniel chapter 12 opened at the end of the world and all the rest of stuff.

I Wrote an open letter yesterday morning the Herald camping and what we listened to was one of the most Amazing Idiotic and despicable things I've ever listened to. Press were invited in to the little studio where camping does the open forum and For the first about two two-thirds of the program for about the first hour.

So he just rambled on and rambled on and rambled on. I I Don't think you could see The looks on the faces of the journalists. I would love to have seen that as they sat there with their eyes crossing and everything else.

And then he started taking some questions from the audience. And you can see he was he was defensive. Here is a man who has Misled. I'm not gonna say millions because I don't think he has millions of followers.

I really don't. But some of you may have heard I was on iron sharpens iron yesterday and and a brother from India called in he had been on iron sharpens iron a couple days ago and The Reformed men in India are struggling because of Herald camping because they are painted With the same brush as Herald camping because many people in India the first thing they ever heard of a Calvinism was male camping years and years and years ago when he had a had a booklet on tulip and This man is Destroying lives right and left around him and he does he seems to be absolutely blissfully unaware.

Doesn't care there was no apology. He didn't apologize for misleading people. He didn't apologize for his attacks upon the church. There's no repentance in this man's heart. There wasn't after 94 there isn't now.

Sadly the press has Treated him as you would expect it to treat anybody. They think is just a nut. There has been exactly one station a Christian station that has contacted me about this subject. You would think that the press if it did its Due diligence we go.

Hey, I wonder if anyone's written any books about this guy. What if anyone's debated this guy, you know I wonder if there's a responsible voice out there as someone who's actually interacted this guy and I don't care about that.

That's irrelevant to them. This is a great opportunity to mock Christianity as a whole and especially Bible believers. And of course Harold is like it's it's like he was designed To be a plague upon us all for there.

He sits Blathering on about how he was right all along the dates were perfectly, right? We got the dates, right? We were just a little off as to what was gonna happen. Yeah, we were supposed to disappear.

But we're still here and folks. How else can I put it? But I told you so I I nailed this one to the ground. There are only certain directions he could go and I said one of the directions that he could go is To spiritualize the coming of Christ.

Say the judgment has begun. But say that what he was wrong about was there was gonna be a rapture on May 21st. But keep his October 21 date, which has always been a part of it. And I've listened to the Today Show this morning and You know, they were saying I was off by five months.

No, that's not even his position. They don't even didn't even know, you know what the whole argument was is we've always seen the October 21st date sitting there and so it's become his fallback position and He still said Universe ends on October 21st.

Which of course can be taken spiritually as well. Just as we had a spiritual rapture. We'll have a spiritual end of the universe and he'll come up with some way of Connecting that and just keep on going until the day he dies.

I Described it as absolutely despicable Because of the The destruction that he has brought in people's lives. He cares nothing about the fact that he is dragging the Bible through the mud dragging the name of Christ through the mud.

There's nothing for that. All that matters is his role as humble Bible teacher Harold camping what an amazing thing. I don't want to listen to this, but let's I suppose we have to. I Actually stayed here at the office didn't want to but record this whole thing and this is what he had to say when he got.

Started. Well, I can tell you very candidly that when May 21 came and went. It was a very difficult time for me a very difficult time poor man. I was truly truly Wondering what is going on? I went in my mind.

I went back through all of the promises that God has made all of the proofs.

All the promises and all the proofs that is my fertile imagination twisting and distorting scripture. But God gave them. See, that's what even did y 'all notice. The Zeke guy is Ezekiel 33 3. That's another interesting very interesting story.

Remember we were watching those videos a number of us went man, you know, it's Something weird about this. I mean you this is just a wild-eyed camping night. Or it seems like this guy is even asking specific questions.

So that when this is all over with there's a record of all this. This is you know, and and the last one day one One day to go definitely made it clear. This guy was not did not believe campings thing then a Couple days later.

He's in front of the camera and not only does that believe in camping things. He's not even a Christian. He's more of an ermine I type guy like a Bart Ehrman perspective and He had infiltrated and I mean he was in campings home he was in campings car and He plays a phone message from camping Zeke, thank you so much.

Really appreciate all you've done blah blah blah blah blah. And camping didn't he is so Focused on his own cult leadership didn't even see it coming. I could you know, I I can understand a happening but that that's that was quite interesting as well.

All of the signs and Everything was fitting perfectly. What in the world happened. And I really Really was praying and praying and praying. Oh Lord. What what what's good? What happened. Because all through this we have I have been just astounded.

At the way God had opened door after door after door he had sent wonderful people to us to manage our caravan to manage our the putting out of billboards the Managing of our track distribution and so on and so on.

Yeah, that proves everything. I mean look at all the Mormons out there. That must mean something there too, right? Did you have something you wish to. Well, he asked a very important question very important question what in the world?

Happened. Yeah, I have the answer you do nothing. Okay. Thank you. You're just trying to stop the pain of having to listen to this.

And it was just marvelous the way everything was going to going together and till May 21 should rolled around and then suddenly it looked like what happened. What happened? Well, you know I was I Stayed away from home for one night because I'll tell you the pressure from that phone ringing and the phone.

And the pressure of people knocking on my door because they wanted an interview was more than I could stand. And so my wife and I we went to a motel someplace and spent the night there and and Watching TV Looking what the news media was doing and praying and praying.

Well, then so what is it like to be mrs. Camping? I really really do wonder at times and Then here comes the answer folks. It comes from a man who used to be with camping isn't any longer and Something he said in a newspaper article becomes the light that turns on.

You know the switch that turns on the light that gives camping his way out of.

His false probably interesting happen. We know I got home and I began to look at some of the news articles in the local papers. And there was a new and you know the media. You people know that as well as I do that you are looking for for information in any direction that you can go and Someone called a friend of mine.

Dr. Gabriel Otero and Talked with him and what he had to say was put in at least in part was put in the newspaper. And when I read that Suddenly the light dawned. Suddenly I felt way better. You know For just a moment he was a he's been a dear friend of mine for over 30 years.

And he was the founder of our family radio school of the Bible. He was the Dean for many many years when I spoke at conferences. He very frequently was a also speaking at the same conference and and Even though he was in some ways he didn't understand everything I was teaching nevertheless he was one individual that I could sit down and talk with and Talk very candidly and there were never said never was any contention between us at all.

Fact is every time he would visit family radio I would I would be delighted to have him come into my office and we'd spend an hour or so together going through Like Whatever it was. Well, then he was talking to the news media and he made a statement or the news did.

I don't know whether the news media got it, right, but at least this is what they claim. He said he says, you know when it may when September 7th rolled around or in 1994 at the time I had claimed was Pomp predicting then and there was a high probability that that might be the end of the world.

He says, you know, I had a private discussion with camping at that time. And And this is what I read in the news report Otero said the Lord did return to earth on that date in a mystical way taking the Holy Spirit back to heaven and I Suddenly I felt better.

I felt the light dawned. We glad this quotation is was not quite accurate. But I did remember the conversation even though it was all maybe 20 years ago or 18 years ago because We we talked very candidly to each other.

What he should have what he should have said is that I had said the Lord did not did return To earth on that date to a mystical in a mystical mystical way taking the Holy Spirit here to again begin to evangelize the world because on September 7th in 19 in 1994 it is a fact that God again began to evangelize the world Outside of the churches and I thought oh the barriers the answer we are looking at the information in the Bible to earthly to To like it like it Like it was actually Physically going to happen when the Bible is a very spiritual book.

Oh, and there's a lot of things in it that are very factual.

Of course, of course, you know many people had called him. Is there any chance brother. Camping. Any chance for the camera that may 21st will be a spiritual thing?

There's no chance. No chance. Very factual, but there's also a lot that is very spiritual and. But how to know whether to look for it as this in its spiritual Understanding or its physical understanding is a very very difficult task.

So what he does he goes on to say we had we we didn't get anything wrong. We just did not yet Understand as we have now discovered because we are so embarrassed. We just did not yet understand That Christ was going to return invisibly in judgment.

That's Edward Miller 1844 Christ turns invisibly. Every false prophets the only way around it. But But Everything winds up still on October 21st. So you got a hundred and fifty two days. Until the universe melts with a fervent heat.

Now He does say that's gonna happen physically but If May 21st was spiritual, maybe October 21st is spiritual, too. And I have absolutely no interest in doing so but if someone is completely bored with life You could be listening to him over the next few weeks and I bet he'll come up with something out of first Samuel.

That will he'll start developing something that will be his backdoor for some kind of spiritual end-of-the-world scenario. For October 21st because October 22nd will come after October 21st in that way and You know what's gonna happen folks people gonna keep following him.

Not as many there are you know, he's gonna lose a lot of support he's probably have to sell some stations. That that that's that's to be expected and I just don't know how much time he has left. I Mean he's soon he turns 90 this summer.

He's had his three score in ten plus another score. So I obviously hold him accountable for his despicable behavior for his being an enemy of all things godly and He needs to be identified for that he is bringing tremendous Mockery and disrepute upon the cause of Christ and upon anyone who believes the Bible's Word of God.

He is a plague Upon the church. There's no question about it, but I likewise hold accountable Every single person that follows after this man. I mean you cannot have a Picogram of discernment and And follow this man you have to be given over to utter foolishness to buy anything Harold camping has to say anymore.

I mean it is absolutely incredible to me. You know what shocked me over the weekend was the number of people That think just like him. Oh, yeah. There's a line of people that will be ready to pick up right where he leaves off if he kicks the bucket tomorrow.

Yeah, but they don't have the vote. They don't have the control of the stations. They're amazing. It was sad to watch that that black fella. Yeah, and there was the guy out front. He's standing there talking to the press on Friday if I recall telling him.

Well, you know, I think brother campers got this wrong. He's I've already figured it out. I know where his mistake was. I've already got the date nailed down. He needs to listen to me. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

There are so many people like that out there. There's no question about it. No question about it, how many times have I used illustration I've said this over and over again, and by the way Taking your phone calls eight seven seven seven five three three three four one dividing that line on Skype eight seven seven seven five three three three four one dividing dot line on Skype.

I Have many times spoken about The fact that as an elder in the church You you sort of watch people and you listen to what they talk about and you listen to the conversations they have and people who are Really Satisfied with God's Word and they're satisfied with God's revelation.

They're satisfied with the gospel you can tell who they are and They're not always throwing out hypotheticals at you about some weird thing over here and some weird thing over there and I've I've likened it to people in a building and the church building represents the truth of God and you've got the people in the center that are Satisfied with the truth of God and they're studying the truth of God.

But then you've got those those people over next to the windows and They're always staying at the window and they're looking out. They're looking beyond the realm of God's revelation. They're not satisfied with what's inside.

They they want to go beyond that. They're they're not they're not happy that God has only given us So much they're not satisfied with the depth of that which normally means they don't know much about what's actually there but they think they do and they're standing at the windows and they're looking out and they're always wondering about something over here and something over there and those folks are always the people you need to keep your eyes on because they're the folks are gonna cause you the most problem in the ministry and That is the description of a campingite.

They have actually gone ahead and climbed outside the window and they're now outside and They think that anybody insides lost and anybody inside doesn't have the Holy Spirit and they have their great insights and their Gnostic knowledge and and what the lot of them are upset about right now is well, my neighbor down the street, I've slowed down a few times since Saturday and looked over and They haven't they haven't changed what's on the back of their car yet.

You know, they haven't scraped the window. They had it professionally done and it still says May 21st and they're still driving around town with that thing because sometimes cars not there and you know, what are they gonna do just.

You know put an X on May and and and put in October with squishy paint or something, you know, I don't know. But some people will that's the amazing thing and that's what the world looks at they look at these people and they go.

Wow, if this doesn't show you how absolutely gullible and disconnected from truth and disconnected from reality Christians are and That's not fair, but that's what the world's gonna do. We have to get used to the not fair part.

You know we were We we stopped doing what we were doing in Salt Lake City. And it wasn't fair that we had to do so it was the misbehavior of people who called themselves Christians. But didn't behave as Christians that ended the outreach up there because we knew the Mormons were gonna differentiate between us and In this situation the world's not gonna differentiate.

I mean, they're calling this guy an evangelical. He doesn't hold to the evangelal. He thinks that everybody but his followers are going to hell in a handbasket. He thinks Jesus died twice. He's this this is a cult it has all the classic signs of a cult, but hey the world doesn't mind here is an evangelical and He sits there with his big Bible and he says the Bible tells us the Bible tells us and you wonder why?

When we say well the Bible says we get this immediate reaction out of people. This is judgment. This is judgment. He was right. He talked about judgment of God that not realizing he is part of the judgment of God.

It is truly an amazing thing eight seven seven seven five three three three four one I called for him to repent. But There's no evidence that he has any any interest in that whatsoever and as long as he can have even I think a small group of followers a Small group of people who'll still go to brother camping by the camp by the camp.

What do you think of this? How about this verse brother camping? What about this brother camping? That is his nectar that is His crack cocaine shall we say He is addicted to it and he will do anything he possibly can To continue that and to maintain that and to have that and He does and the thing that just disgusted me yesterday was he has Absolutely, no concern what so ever.

For the cause of Christ. It's all about him eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. Dividing that line on Skype in the midst of all this silliness the great evangelical cover-up the herald camping foolishness.

I Tweeted and blogged over the weekend on the fact that right before the weekend a Gallup poll was released that Gave one of the many indicators of the Collapse of Western society into moral anarchy and evermore into a settled detestation of Godly values, I think it's I think it's only way to describe it is a settled Detestation of godly values and That was found in the poll that discovered that as of that particular poll 53 of The United States population supports the idea of same-sex marriage 53 for the first time a majority for the first time it went over.

I think it went from was it 48 I forgot what the number was. I provided it in the in the blog article. But I think it was actually a 7 or 7 or 9 rise since last year. So it was a large large percentage that may have been only 45 last time.

In any case it was a amazing Revelation of the speed at which this cultural collapse is taking place. It goes right along with the Discussion we had with Michael Brown last week and Please if you if you hear anything about this realize those Promoting the profanation of marriage and that's what it is.

It is a profaning a destruction of marriage a redefinition of marriage into its opposite. Those promoting that will not stop at its mere acceptance. They want to force those of us who believe that it is wrong to be silent in our belief they would rather force out of us a confession of its goodness and That's coming that is coming there is the the day is not not far in the in the distant future 877 -753 -3341 dividing that line on Skype if you want us to be able to hear the rustling of the pages of your Bible dividing that line on Skype.

But we do have some callers. Let's talk with Richard hi Richard.

Hi, dr. White. Thanks for taking all. Yes, sir it's my calls about Herald camping and discernment. Rich kind of wanted me to keep it just a one-word, but. How do you. How do we deal with? Christians or people who call themselves Christian don't want to exercise discernment with regard to Herald camping.

And say, you know, well, he's he's still a brother, you know. We need to you know, not judge him. God's gonna judge him and you know. If he's teaching false doctrine, then God will handle that but we just need to accept them accept him in love.

How do we accept him in love. He doesn't want to be accepted in love. I found sound really really weird here. He doesn't want to be accepted in love. He is the one saying that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the churches that no one could be saved in the churches that all the Ministers and churches are servants of Satan.

So he's not looking for a fellowship with us, right? I mean, I think the vast majority of people are just ignorant of what the man is teaching. Do they know he teach that he is teaching that Jesus died twice that his death on Calvary's Cross was not a perpetuatory sacrifice.

Do they know he's teaching annihilationism? Do they have any idea what this man's doctrine is really all about? I mean, he's starting to make the Jehovah's Witnesses look orthodox. So so when people say well, we just we just need to we just need to accept him as our brother in Christ.