Tobias Speaks - via James White X Account

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All right, everybody. It is Saturday. Normally, I don't upload on Saturday, but I just felt like today was a good

Saturday to upload. Things are a little calm over here. In fact, the reason I'm not at the Fight Laugh Feast conference this weekend is because I've been doing a lot of business travel over the weekends for the past month or so and I just needed a weekend home just to be kind of relaxed and get some things done.

So that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing today. Next week, just to keep you posted, I plan on getting back to some of the

David Platt stuff, which is very interesting to me. That's really what I'm interested in, that kind of thing.

The inner workings of the woke church and stuff like that. But this week I was kind of pulled into this

Tobias thing, which I don't think is unrelated necessarily, but it's definitely not the kind of content that I like to make.

It doesn't give me any joy to do it. Well, I say that, but it doesn't give me any extra joy beyond the normal amount of joy

I get talking about this kind of stuff. But I wanted to just kind of explain a few things and kind of give you some background on what to expect coming from the

Right Response Ministries side. Because this whole thing, you know,

I've said it numerous times, it's a big mess and there's lots of different factors involved.

And I wanted to just sort of relay some of those to you so you can kind of understand what our posture is here.

I'm not the spokesperson for Right Response, obviously, but since I'm part of it,

I do have a little finger on the pulse, somewhat, about what our thinking is. I spoke with Joel Webbin last night for about an hour or so, maybe a little less than an hour.

And just so you know, he's in very good spirits. You know what I mean? That's for sure. I know a lot of people were reaching out to me, concerned that this is a real tough time for him and stuff like that.

Joel's in a good spot, you know what I mean? And so just so you know, that's kind of where he's at.

Also, we've been talking, him and I, about kind of what to do with the

Zoom call recording that we have. I have all the recordings. I have the Zoom call recording.

I have the original video from Eschatology Matters saved. I have all of it saved, right?

And so we're keeping all of the receipts here. And it's unfortunate that you have to do that. But the way things have played out, it is just shown so necessary and so important to keep the recordings of this kind of stuff.

And the thing is, I'll be straight up with you. The first time I heard about keeping recordings of this kind of stuff, it was from Apology Radio, you know what

I mean? And I don't want to re -adjudicate that whole situation, and I'm not going to really even tell you my opinion on the recordings of that kind of stuff.

I mean, I think it's totally legitimate to record your calls, especially once you spend a few minutes, a few minutes on the back end of some of these reformed groups.

The necessity of recording these phone calls is absolutely crucial, you know what

I mean? Especially so, I don't record every phone call I've ever had, obviously. But I'm not a psycho!

What kind of a psycho do you think I am? But when I enter a call that I know is going to be contentious, there's a good chance that I'm recording that phone call.

It's as simple as that. Because it is astounding to me, the things that happen behind the scenes, the things that I know about how they actually went down, and then the way

I see them presented online. I'm not going to get into the players and stuff like that.

That's not what this is about. I'm not trying to stick it to anybody. But at the end of the day, I've learned this lesson in a number of ways a number of times.

This is something that, unfortunately, has to be done. It just has to be done.

So, we're talking about how to release this information. I'm pretty sure we're going to release it.

But the problem is, and I think what you guys need to understand, is that this whole issue, you know it's over a meme, right?

You know it's over a meme. But really, fundamentally, it's about this particular church member at Joel Webbens' church.

And there's been extreme pressure put on Joel to church discipline this guy, of course leading to excommunication if he doesn't recant of his meme, but also just Holocaust denial in general.

And pressure has been put on Joel publicly, privately, and everything in between to essentially throw this guy to the wolves.

You know what I mean? Hand him over to Satan. That's the pressure that's been put on Joel. And Joel, very eloquently, very patiently, very calmly, explained in this

Zoom call why he cannot do that. And I think it makes perfect sense personally. And so, this whole thing was about protecting this church member.

We're not going to throw him to the wolves. He is a believer. It's as simple as that. And there's other things about this guy that need to be protected.

And so, we're trying to figure out how to release this Zoom call to make sure that this guy's okay, is essentially what we're trying to do.

We don't want to dox him, and we don't want to throw red meat to the people that want blood right now.

That's what they want. They want blood. And so, that's the delay, mostly.

And there's some other things as well. I was talking to Joel last night, and I'm not going to tell you all the details of our conversation, but there's a blast radius that—because here's the thing.

This Zoom call is completely devastating to Tobias.

There's no mistaking this Zoom call. There's no way to misinterpret it. There's no way to get around it.

There's no way, oh, maybe I misunderstood. He doesn't really speak English. We're going to get to that in a minute. This is crystal clear.

There's no mistaking it. It is absolutely devastating to Tobias.

But the problem is that it's a nuclear warhead, and there's going to be a blast radius given the things that Tobias said on this phone call.

And the blast radius is going to affect, in some way—I don't know how much—but in some way, it's going to affect a lot of people.

People that I'd rather not fight with. People that I'd rather not make enemies with.

And we're trying to do everything in our power to leave as much space as possible for peace before this warhead is detonated.

Because if it's detonated, it will be devastating to Tobias. I frankly don't care. I don't know

Tobias. He's not in my circles. He doesn't care for me. I don't care for him more than the normal care you have for a brother.

But this guy has decided to do some very evil things, and as far as I'm concerned, he can be blasted into outer space.

I don't really care about the target of this Zoom call. But there's a blast radius.

And so I can't tell you much more than that without sort of revealing my hand here. But that's what we're trying to protect.

We're really trying to not have to go to war. This is not what we need right now. This is not what

I want. This is not what Joel wants. But this fight has come to Joel, and he's not going to just lay down.

It is not going to happen, nor should he, in my opinion. And so if you're wondering what the delay is, of course, no matter what

I say, people are going to say, oh, he's hiding something. He really is a Nazi. It's not anything about that.

It's about trying to protect not only this church member, but also other people that we care deeply for.

And I don't include Tobias in that. I don't care about Tobias. The guys in Germany, I never even heard his name before today.

So I'm not talking about him. Anyway, let's move on. Dr. White is friends with Tobias, of course, and I guess

Tobias doesn't have a Twitter account. Are they allowed to have Twitter accounts in Germany? I don't know. I don't know if Germany allows you to have an

X account, you know, because there's a lot of anti -Semitism on X now, you know? All right. Dr.

White posts this for Tobias. It's his statement about this whole thing. And it starts off with a comment from Dr.

White. So we'll start there. It says, Let me just stop there and comment on Dr.

White's post. This is beautiful. This is absolutely beautiful.

You can see Dr. White's angling right off the bat. Dr. White is going to try to turn this situation of Tobias lying through his teeth for two hours about Joel Webben trying to destroy his ministry into a commentary about the reaction to the lies.

He's going to try to spin this as, you know, no longer is Tobias sitting, you know, in the docket.

It's going to be now their behavior online. This is beautiful. This is beautiful.

Like, to me, it's when I when I read this initially, it just it really beggars belief.

You know what I mean? It's it's shocking to me. You know what I mean? And so what he's going to go and do is he's going to take the red and blue avatars and he's going to see all the disgusting thing.

Look at this. And this is the real story here is all the rise of anti -Semitism and all this kind of stuff.

No, no, this is not the real story. You can't fool us like this anymore. The real story is

Tobias went on a video, put on Fight Laugh Feast Network and lied about Joel Webben to the point where, you know, it's it's it's it's embarrassing.

It's embarrassing. One of my favorite things to do is I watch a lot of police interrogations and very few people that talk to the police that are like guilty.

Very few are good liars and some are exceptionally poor liars. And it's embarrassing.

And you're like, you feel bad for him, even though this guy's like a murderer. You're like, this guy's murdered somebody. But you feel bad about how stupid he is.

You know what I mean? And it's like it's it's the ultimate cringe. It's like, how could he think anyone would believe this?

That's what Pastor Reimer Schmider did to to Joel. And but but no,

Dr. White wants to tell you the real story is the reaction. No, it's not the real story. The real story is that Pastor Tobias was platformed and promoted and he was embarrassingly bad at lying about Joel Webben.

Now, I wonder to myself, like, why was he so sloppy? Because it's very sloppy.

And anyone who was fooled by Tobias's presentation, you need to take a good look in the mirror.

I'm sorry. You just don't have what it takes to comment on this. It was sloppy.

And I think to myself, why is it sloppy? And I don't think it's because Tobias is an idiot. But what

I do think happened is he wasn't counting on Joel having the evidence. So you could just throw mud, you could just sling mud and it's going to stick because he can't prove it that he's not.

You know, when did you stop beating your wife? You know, that's that kind of thing. So he's going to try to spin this into the online behavior.

Well, good luck with that. I mean, honestly, good luck with that. That's that's not surprising.

And it's just beautiful. It's just beautiful. And I said, I'll draw attention to this.

I said in a post, you know, somebody had asked, and this is a question many have asked, why are they doing this?

Why did this happen? Why do why did they release this video? Why did they promote it?

Why did people we love promote it? And here's what I said. Here's what

I said. This takes no opinion of mine. This takes no like secret knowledge. I said,

I don't know why exactly, but it's clear to me they wanted to destroy

Joel's ministry. And that's not my opinion. That is that is based on on on facts.

What was it that Dr. White said, Dr. White said he said, Joel, you know, again, without naming him at first, but of course, the name came out later,

Joel should excommunicate this brother. And if he doesn't, everyone should leave his church.

People should leave his church if he doesn't. Now, if everyone takes, I'm sorry, he didn't say everyone, he said people should leave his church if he doesn't.

Now, if everyone took Dr. James White's advice, what would happen? Well, the church would be over.

Everyone would leave. I don't know any other way to understand that.

Besides, I want his ministry destroyed unless he does what I want him to do. Like that's the thing.

If he does what I want him to do, all is well. But unless if he doesn't, I want his ministry destroyed.

There's no other way to understand that. Everyone leaves his church. That's the end. And so so is he talking about that behavior?

That's an extreme thing to say about James White. But I'm not really it's not taking a huge leap to say, yeah, you know, your advice for people at his church is to leave unless he does what you say.

What other way to what other way can I understand that? What other way can I understand that? So anyway, all that to say that this this initial paragraph is not very promising.

Put it that way. Let's move on to Pastor Tobias, his his public statement here.

He says, in recent weeks, Joel Webben made public allegations against me on his podcast. The situation concerned one of my former church members and a zoom call of August 7th and a zoom call of August 7th, which was the culmination of an extended process.

What? I don't understand what that's supposed to mean. I'll just read it the way it's written.

The situation concerned one of my former church members and a zoom call. Oh, I get it now.

Let me start over. Let's rewind. Forget I said anything. Here we go. In recent weeks,

Joel Webben made some public allegations against me on his podcast. The situation concerned one of my former church members and a zoom call of August 7th, 2024, which is the culmination of an extended process.

I decided to use a new platform opportunity with Eschatology Matters to respond, which has since been removed.

Whatever the errors, failures of memory, misrepresentations or sins committed in my video response may be.

They are mine and mine alone. Eschatology Matters and the friends I asked to repost my response so that it may be seen all acted in good faith and on the biblical basis that every man has the right to respond to his accuser and be heard.

Having been given every reason to believe my testimony and that of my fellow elder to be faithful.

Let me put a put a pause there. I'm just going to comment on that. He's trying to take the heat off of James White, Doug Wilson, Joe Boot, Scott O 'Neill.

You know, people like that that shared this this lie far and wide. Right. And unfortunately, that's not going to work.

The video in it of itself, we've we've covered this and we've proven this beyond all doubt.

The video in and of itself, without even knowing anything else, was embarrassing. It was embarrassing.

The video itself was embarrassing. So unless he said to these people, share this without listening to it, they have no excuse.

They shared an embarrassingly bad video full of lies. So unfortunately, I see what he's doing.

He's trying to be a good friend. It doesn't work. I'm sorry. It just doesn't work. Let's go back to his statement.

In the fallout of this public controversy, various claims, accusations and counterclaims have now been made online, which in order to honor

God and give due weight and process to both parties need to be addressed formally. One emerging matter requires comment.

Let me stop there for a second, too. Let me stop there for a second, too. He's right.

I mean, you need to address the counterclaims and the counter narratives and stuff like that. But one thing you need to realize, and you need to put this together with his statement here,

Eschatology Matters listened to the Zoom call that we provided them.

We provided them really no additional context. We didn't have to explain anything. We said, just watch this and you'll see that this is full of lies.

They watched it. And within minutes of having watched it. They were horrified by what they heard.

They were they instantly saw the problems instantly. This is the this is the platform that made the video.

They thought it was good. They put it out there. Now, I've said you shouldn't have thought this was good to put out there.

I've said that. So Eschatology Matters needs to own that. And they have. They have owned it. But the minute they got done listening to this

Zoom call, they were shocked and removed the video immediately.

OK, so you have those two pieces of information. And I know some of you guys are still holding on and saying

Eschatology Matters is is in the tank for Joel Webben. Really? Really?

The same platform that put this out against Joel Webben is in the tank for Joel Webben?

Is that what you're trying to get us to believe? It's it's shocking. It's shocking.

So so if all you knew was Eschatology Matters put this anti -Joel

Webben video out, heard the additional evidence and said, whoops, that was a mistake and took it down instantly, you'd have enough information.

But this guy says, well, no, no, we need to hear we need to hear this formally. OK. OK. He continues.

One emerging matter requires comment. It is now evident that this private conversation was secretly recorded without our consent or knowledge and has since been distributed in part or in whole to various parties.

While at the same time, Joel Webben and his team refused to make the recordings available to me, thereby holding me hostage.

Yeah, that's right. You can't have them. You can't have them.

And it's not because we're holding you hostage. It's because we don't trust you,

Tobias. We don't. We don't trust you. And our intention was not to make this a public situation, this this this this this

Zoom call, because we're trying to protect certain people. But you're really leaving us no choice.

You're really pushing us. And we're trying to restrain ourselves because we don't want this blast radius to affect everybody.

I don't I mean, maybe Joel cares about you, Tobias. I personally don't. But maybe Joel does. We don't want to launch this this nuclear warhead.

We don't. But we don't trust you to have it because, you know, who knows what you're going to do with it.

You could chop it up. You could make it look really bad. You could kind of rejigger some things. We don't trust you. So that's right.

You don't get that. You don't get it. You don't get it. It's as simple as that. I'm ready to respond to any accusations and do what is right before God and man in terms of requirements of scripture where I've either misspoken or sinned.

I want to address one of the accusations that were made against me online right away. It is said that I had claimed that the brother

Joel from Joel's church agreed with Corey Mahler's claim that children of mixed ethnicities are like feces. I know with full confidence

I did not intend to imply that because it is definitely not true. But I have taken that accusation seriously because I genuinely do not want to misrepresent anyone.

So I went back and listened to that portion of my podcast again. I was discussing that the revisionism of World War Two history was strongly influenced by Corey Mahler's Stone Choir podcast.

To illustrate how evil Corey Mahler is, I wanted to mention that I wanted mentioned that the brother from Joel's church was aware of this outrageous

Mahler quote and yet endorsed other ideas and historical interpretations from this same man. However, I do recognize that the way

I phrase my remarks could easily be misunderstood as implying that this brother agreed with Mahler on this specific point.

My English construction is not perfect, but working in a foreign language is no excuse for saying something misleading.

And I genuinely, sincerely apologize for having given this false impression and ask this brother's forgiveness for misrepresenting him.

Hey, thanks a lot for the apology. Not good enough. Not good enough. Because here's the thing.

In the Zoom call, this is just amazing to me.

This is just amazing to me. In the Zoom call, the whole point of Joel's and this brother's bringing this particular tweet up was to essentially say the same thing you're saying here.

That look, this is evil stuff. And so if you're going to get other information from Corey Mahler, it might be great stuff.

I mean, this tweet doesn't disqualify everything else he's ever said, but if you're going to do that, you need to understand where Corey's coming from.

The whole point of this was a pastoral concern for people that were listening to Stone Choir.

That's what Joel's position was. Pastoral concern for people, look, they've got some great content.

And I've heard this from many different sources. You know what I mean? They've got some great content. They also have some poison.

And that's why Joel brought it up. It was a good pastoral moment. It was a beautiful moment.

And I remember telling Joel, like, you know, that it's a very good approach. It's an impressive approach with adult men who are listening and interested in Stone Choir to say, yeah, yeah, they've got some decent stuff.

You know, they've got some podcasts that maybe I would agree with completely, but they also have a lot of poison. So, you know, if you're going to be drinking a drink with a lot of good stuff and there's some poison in it, well, at least be aware of it.

At least be aware of it. But somehow you,

Tobias, even in your poor English construction, which I grant you, you didn't intend to make it sound a certain way.

Even if you didn't intend to make it sound a certain way, you were still using this as a point of somehow he's wrong and he's still approving of all this stuff.

It's bizarre. It's bizarre. So, yeah, I guess you're forgiven for having poor English construction.

But once people hear the Zoom call about that section, which I'm definitely thinking should be released, everyone's going to see that this apology is nonsense.

This is nonsense. And not to mention, we weren't the only, like Joel's protectors here weren't the only ones who interpreted it that way we did.

People that hated Joel interpreted it that way too, and they used it as a hammer against him. So you're apologizing here and we'll accept that apology.

But the thing is, this apology doesn't go far enough because that whole section, that whole section of the

Zoom call was crystal clear what Joel was doing. Crystal clear. Crystal clear. And you somehow turned it into a negative.

It's unbelievable, but I cannot wait for you to hear that part. That's one part that I definitely want to cover because there's actually a lot of teachable moments in that part, in my opinion.

He continues, I believe that the biblical course now required by God's law is the formation of a church court for the purpose of an independent third party

Christian arbitration so that all the issues and evidence can be brought fully into the light. As Baptists, neither

Joel or I are part of a consistatory Presbytery or Episcopate, but this situation now clearly requires a third party adjudication to bring complete clarity to get all the truth.

This alone will allow for meaningful apologies for, excuse me, for errors, mutual repentance were required for actual sin, and the possibility of reconciliation.

I am ready to submit my findings and outcomes of such a Christian court. And since the statements on both sides have been public,

I would agree to a summary statement of the committee's findings to be released publicly so that Christ may be honored and glorified in everything.

I appeal to Joel Webbin and his team to agree to this scriptural request and process. Tobias R. Well, I mean,

I don't want to make any definitive statements here because I'm sure I could be convinced.

But no freaking way. No, no. The answer is no.

At least as I stand here on November 2nd, 2024, 10 a .m.

1002 a .m. Just to be clear, no, absolutely not.

That's not that's not how this is going to go down. Who would even preside over this? You know what?

Let me. I changed my mind. I changed my mind. I stand ready to serve.

I do. I stand ready to serve. Listen, I've done it before.

I've done it. I've got a lot of experience. You know what I mean? I used to I used to manage a large, well -performing sales team and I would adjudicate situations between the various sales reps and territories and credit and stuff like that all the time.

I would do it. I was good at it, too, man. I used to be good at that stuff. I stand ready to serve my friends.

That's yeah, I don't want to, but I'll do it. I don't want to, but I'll obviously this is a joke.

Just like I think that call for a church court over this is a joke. I just don't see any reason for that to happen.

There's so much like it's just amazing to me how much you could desperately hold on to somehow still convicting

Joel of something after all of that's happened again. I just cannot fathom the mind that says eschatology matters posted a hit piece against Joel.

They heard the other side in their own words. They heard they heard Tobias's the other side of Tobias's story from Tobias.

And they said, whoa, this is no bueno deleted it immediately apologized and said, hey, nobody should use this to count for anything.

This is like the people who posted it said nobody should use this as valid in any way.

That's what they said. In any way. This is not valid. Don't use this. We made a huge mistake. You know what?

You know how much integrity it takes to do that? Like, like, you know how you know how clear it has to have been for eschatology matters to have the stones to do that.

You got it. I'm taking my hats off to eschatology matters, man. And like, it was a mistake to do it.

And I was I was I was perturbed about it. But but but their their course correction was exactly what was needed.

You know, wild your mind has to be to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we still got to get Joel into court. The answer is no, no way.

Do you think we're stupid? We're not stupid. And this statement here,

I mean, when I read it, like it made like my finger is like on the launch button and like I want to push it, man,

I do want to push it. But I don't. The blast radius thing is what really kind of puts gives me pause like I don't want to hurt certain people.

And I believe let me just say this, I believe that certain people were taken by Tobias.

They were taken. They were played by Tobias. I really do think so. And I don't think that it was necessarily like intentionally, you know, done like like Tobias is like, like, like,

I think Tobias is sincere, right? I think he's a sincere person in some ways. He sincerely believes that that if you are revisionist about World War Two, then that is the same thing as being

I hate all ethnic Jews for for no reason. It's the same thing. It's just as evil.

And no matter what is said to him in this zoom call, it's all explained. It's all explained again and again and again.

And it's amazing because this brother will explain it and then Tobias will accept the explanation and then a few minutes later, we'll come back to it as if the explanation never came.

He sincerely is no way for him to understand this guy's position without him hating

Jews. That's it. That's the only way he can understand it. And so these guys were taken by Tobias because he was so sure he was so sure.

And I think they were ready to be taken. That's the other thing. Like, like a lot of times when you're when you're when you're the wool is pull over your eyes by a scammer.

It's because you're in a vulnerable place. You're ready to be taken. And for whatever reason, they were ready.

The people who ran with this were ready to be rid of Joel. They were ready to be rid of Joel Webben.

And so they jumped on the first thing that looked really juicy, that looked really solid and had a person presenting it that was so sure he was so sure and they jumped on it.

I don't hate these people. I don't hate them. I don't have any ill will towards them.

I want them to thrive. I want them to succeed. I want them to continue to have influence.

It's no good to be taken by someone. It feels bad. And I know the reaction is to try to say, well,

I wasn't really taken, you know, like, like, you know, all that. But I got to say that this, this, this, this call for a church council,

I mean, who would even sit on it? Honestly, who would even sit on it? It makes no sense.

Like, this makes no sense for me to sit on this, on this panel, right?

Obviously. But who would? Who could? I mean, this is, this is, it's wild.

It's absolutely wild. This idea. And I'm not saying James supports it. He's just posting this.

I'm not saying James supports it, but, but this is not, this is not encouraging. You know what

I mean? You find some of the reactions online to this not encouraging

James White. Well, I don't find this encouraging at all. I don't find this encouraging at all. And like, when

I saw this, my finger was just like just about to hit the launch button, but we're trying to show restraint here.

We're trying to leave room for solving this in a peaceful way. That's what we're trying to leave room for.

I don't know how much longer we'll wait. In fact, I told Joel yesterday, I said, Joel, if you want to go ahead and push the launch button,

I'll support it. I'll support it. I think, my opinion, my counsel is we wait.

My counsel is we wait. A lot of people disagree with me and I, and I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. My counsel is we'll wait.

But if he goes ahead and does it, he has my full permission to do it, and I think it'd be fine.

In any case, yeah, I wanted to draw attention to this statement here and this kind of apology.

I mean, once you, it's hard for me to really explain why this is only kind of an apology because you know, of course

I have extra information, but once you see what actually happened in that and then how he like spun it, it's still a blatant misrepresentation.

He's apologizing for his construction. I can grant him that the construction there was a little off and that he didn't exactly say what we all assumed he said, including people that hate

Joel assumed he said. But even with that, he still spun it upside down.

He still spun that whole interaction upside down. It's still not enough.

It's still a lie. And of course he's going to say, well, I don't remember. Okay, well, fine.

I mean, that's okay. You don't remember. You don't remember, but it's not going well.

This is not going well for Tobias, put it that way. And I got to say, I'm going to urge caution here to Dr.

White. You know what I mean? Like Dr. White got on his dividing line and threatened Joel Webbin.

Don't make me name names because I will. Well, let me give you a little bit of advice, and this is not a threat, but this is just advice because I don't want what's what's

I don't want bad for you. I would chill on defending

Tobias's video if I were you. I wouldn't do it if I were you, and if I did it,

I would put extreme qualifiers if I were you, because when this is released, it is not going to go well for you.

If you go whole hog defending Tobias's slander fest, it's not going to go well for you.

I'm just telling you. So if I were you, I would hesitate to do that.

Talk about if you want to try to spin this into making it, it's not really about Tobias and his many, many lies.

It's about the reaction and the immaturity. If you want to do that, knock yourself out. I mean, that's a weird strategy.

It's not going to work, but knock yourself out if that's what you want to do. I would wait probably on that too, but you know, whatever.

But if you're going to continue to defend his slander fest, if you must do it, which you shouldn't do, but if you must do it, you better put some qualifiers in there.

Extreme qualifiers. Because when this thing launches, there's no mistaking it.

People are going to have the same reaction Eschatology Matters had, where it was like, oh no,

I got to delete this off the internet. I got to apologize for this. That's the reaction they're going to have.

In any case, I hope you found this video helpful. I love you guys and yeah, just be patient with us.