The Kindle, and Many Calls

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Opening Banter, Tech Problems, and the Live Podcast

So so should we start now or ten minutes? The dividing line will begin.

One minute ago. The dividing line will begin. Look, I know you're replacing me. I will not go easy quietly. That's. The dividing line will begin in ten minutes.

For those who do that have any idea why I'm there we start the program this way. Because you're listening to the podcast. Didn't remember. There are people who listen to the podcast. We have no idea what goes on before at the program.

They miss all the fun and games. But yes, we have ordered the replacement computer for The two computers that make this program Possible and thanks to all those who made that a possibility as well. But evidently the computer knows that it's eyes are numbered go out the door kicking and screaming I Didn't touch anything.

Well, that's that's what you get when you when you put a bunch of professionals together in one room. We wouldn't know anything about that but.

Remember these were put together. We called at the time bailing wire duct tape and chewing gum.

Electronics. Man, you go up there and part it together and put it together and hey the one in my office still 24 7. How many years now? I bet you I was like 2003. We put that down probably. I think. Fact.

I think that's actually its second motherboard. I think the first yeah, it was 800 megahertz. Yeah, something like that.

And it's still run same drives. It's amazing. So anyway, no one really is overly excited about our car.

You know, I actually got a phone call message on my phone machine last week from the computer. Well from a gentleman that felt that we needed to take the word live out of the podcast portion.

Oh, oh you mean edit it out each time? Yeah. Oh.

So that he would know that the podcast wasn't live.

You really shouldn't have told me about that and I'm back the entire world that in fact I'm gonna go now you should go now and and screen that next call. That would be a good thing. Hey, welcome to the dividing line on the 22nd of December 2009 and if you're listening live, it's live.

And if you're not listening live, it's not Put that in there for anyone who might be confused about the situation anyway I'm just sort of You know We couldn't do this if we were like on networks and stuff like that to where you know, you have hard breaks and you only have a certain amount of time and It's it's it's a whole lot easier to just recognize that people don't mind when Rich and I talk to each other once in a while.

I'm on one side of the office. He's on he's on the other anyhow last do on the program today. I have Some comments I would like to make on a debate that I had not heard that evidently took place last year between Dennis Prager Dinesh D'Souza and Christopher Hitchens.

I got to listen to it while writing yesterday and therefore wish to make some comments. But I'd like to start off with something really practical. Lane and channel was mentioning that his parents had Purchased him a Amazon Kindle, which is very nice and I Utilize my Kindle all the time and it's got a new cover for it because I used the standard cover but when you travel as much as I do you need a zipper cover to protect it a little bit better and I also got A light for it because if you have not used a Kindle, it is not a backlit device.

And if you're going to want to read in the dark, you're going to want to get a light for it. So I got a light for it. For those who are not familiar with it the Amazon Kindle. There's a number of digital readers out there now.

But the Kindle is far and away got the advantage over the others for the simple reason it's connected to Amazon and Amazon has become the source of digital material books Etc, etc. I mean it's just so easy to use and They're fast Reliable, they've got great prices this way it is, you know, I mean when somebody has put together a great business model.

There's no reason to say anything else. So You can with an Amazon Kindle. Well, I give an example as I was going out to debate Dan Barker for the first time as I was getting on the plane I wanted to get a work on a basic introduction to logic to review the various Laws of logic rules of logic just just for a review on the flight out.

We were already we're already doing the pre-boarding. When I fired up my Kindle. It's a wireless device you do not pay a monthly charge for it and no I don't get any kickbacks this by the way. Went into the Kindle store found the exact book I wanted and Said buy it.

I left it on stuck it back in my bag. Got on the plane sat down pulled my Kindle back out and the book was already there. It was delivered just that quickly. The main reason that I use a Kindle is a I can carry 80 90 books in it.

That I can sort of pick and choose what I want to be reading on and it weighs Very little and therefore gets through TSA much easier Than carrying a big bag of books with me. So for the traveler, there's just nothing better but I am also now 47 years of age and That means this thing called presbyopia eventually catches up with you, which has nothing to do with the mode of baptism.

That's to do I could just see some people going what what James why I just became a Presbyterian what Presbyopia obviously refers to.

What I can't stand is that where the Presbyterian sprinkle of a be really far away far away.

Tell him the Presbyterian is presbyopia because he has to baptize the baby at arm's length to see what he's doing. And the Baptist has to baptize someone and wear something at arm's length to see you they're doing that's right.

It's obviously when your eyes get to that point where Things close up don't look as good as they used to. And man people have started using really small fonts, especially on like pill bottles. My goodness.

That's like two-point font. I couldn't have read that when I was 16. Let alone now. It's ridiculous, but anyhow. That is one of the main reasons to get a Kindle at age 40 or so. Is do the fact that you can not only adjust the font size.

But it's just simply easier on the eyes than anything else. I've seen it is just that that nice. But then I discovered the real reason to get a Kindle. And this is why I want to take a few moments here at the beginning and talk about this and we'll go to our calls.

And I've got the the hitching stuff and of if I can get a chance to respond to Someone who took on John MacArthur on a world net daily today. I'll try to get to that too. We'll see but I Have discovered just a trim.

This this is really what makes the Kindle a tremendous benefit for me a Few months ago and I mentioned this in the blog. I may have mentioned on the program. I don't recall. You all keep hearing me here say things.

Well, I listened to this on a ride. Now if it's something like a debate, then you can understand why how I did that I Download an mp3 file or I found something on YouTube. Download the video file strip the audio from it and put it into an iPod Nano.

Which is what I ride with now because the iPod Nano has the ability to speed up what you're listening to you. So you can listen to it even faster. You can get three hours worth of lecture. From a class on iTunes you or three hours worth of debate something like that into about two hours and and 10 10 2 hours 15 minutes worth of time.

While you're on a nice long ride. That's I think a really good way of using using your time staying healthy and doing all your studying all the same time. But the Kindle has made that even a greater opportunity.

Because the Kindle will read Anything you can put on it now you can send to your own Kindle you can send Word documents PDF documents to the Kindle and So that includes anything you can get in Word or PDF format.

The Kindle will read it for you one day. I was sitting there and I had a book review due for the CRI Journal. And all sudden it struck me. Wait a minute. I I've got this book in Kindle format so I could have the Kindle read it with the digital voice.

It's it's it's just like all digital voices. Sometimes it mispronounces something but it's a very good digital voice. You don't have a bunch of different voices. You can choose from it's just one but it's a good understandable clear digital voice.

I said wait, wait a minute if I can listen to that in my earphones, I can plug that into my Mac and I can fire up a free audio recording program that I have and I can record anything that I can put on my Kindle Into mp3 format or any other format on my Mac, which means any book Document PDF Word document anything else that I can put on the Kindle I can listen to while I'm writing.

Now, I'm not sure how many titles they now have on Amazon on Kindle. It's I think it's over 300 ,000 now. It had been down the hundred and fifties or something like that. But it's becoming more and more common to be able to get a book in the Kindle format, but archive org internet archive Just came out where they have taken all of their documents books Google books all sorts of stuff like that and they're all available in Kindle now 1 .8 million texts available for free in Kindle format, which means that's 1 .8 million texts that can be put onto your iPod to be listened to While you are doing other things.

So that is a I don't know that that kind of Capacity and availability just simply was not Even on the on the the radar screen only a decade ago but there it is and I don't see that trend reversing itself any time in the future and So if you're if you're looking at so the things to give to people to help them Make better use of their time.

That's what I've got to do people. I said, I just don't know how you can address all these things. I think you study all these things. I've got to redeem the time I have to exercise a lot to stay to stay in shape.

It's just the way, you know genetics or genetics. That's the way it is. I eat like a bird, but I still got exercise like everything or I'll look like I don't know what. So I've got to spend a lot of time out on that bike and that's what keeps me healthy.

I feel better I speak better. I think better I write better when I'm when I'm pursuing a goal. So I've found a way to redeem all of that time and That's when I do so much of the study. You look at my iPod right now.

I've got an introduction to Buddhism on there iTunes you you can get anything off of iTunes you these days both RTS and Covenant Seminary Have a lot of their classes on iTunes you you can listen to those classes.

I've listened to an entire series on the Crusades about to do a second whole series on the Crusades. You know, I've got lectures from from future Muslim opponents and debate and so on so forth. It's just a great way to do things and so I Just mentioned that for for people because I've had a lot of people saying well, you know, I've heard about this Kindle.

Well, you know about the Kindle. Well, it's an extremely useful device. No two ways about it. So with that I Have lots to get to today, but since we have filled up the phone lines right off the start let's go ahead and get to them and let's talk with.

Sola Scriptura and the Problem of Anachronism

Rology in Oklahoma. Hi. Hi, dr. White. This is actually Rology from rollers all blog. Yes, sir I didn't know how you pronounce that. I you know, oftentimes I don't even know how you there.

Okay, well I've seen I've seen the name obviously from the beggars all James one's.

Blog so good to have you with us. Thank you. My question today is on sola scriptura. I'm in a debate with a you know, do these ancient connect, you know before you can up its normative rule of faith.

But not during periods of inscripturation. All those would be would be beyond that anyways.

Right. Well, you know, so it kind of makes me wonder. Did you know my first instinct?

Yeah the problem that you immediately encounter here is the Trying to place early church writers in context to force them to address issues that were not even a part of their of their thinking. That is one of the primary problems I have with the abuse of Ignatius for example in regards to trying to turn him into someone who believed in Transubstantiation, it's just gross anachronism or to say well You know we can criticize this individual for having an inferior doctrine of Imputation or something like that long before there had ever even been a major discussion of the subject.

It's I realized that especially Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are in a situation where they are forced to find in patristic writings their modern formulations of doctrines. Mainly just because the dogmatic statements of Rome as far as Roman Catholicism is concerned or the the the much less easily definable Authoritarian structure of Eastern Orthodox, and I don't know if I don't I don't know if the you know I don't know who you're debating if you're debating a real Eastern Orthodox person from the east I've found them to be significantly different than Eastern Orthodox folks in the United States.

Yeah, because as you know I'm just doing this for other folks not so much for your benefit, but Eastern Orthodoxy. One of the reasons I you know people are always writing all you need to do this. And you need to address that so and so I have resisted it because for many reasons but one of the primary reasons is that Eastern Orthodoxy real Eastern Orthodoxy Thinks and views the world in a very non-western way, and it is extremely difficult for a westerner either to really enter into the the liturgically driven theology of Eastern Orthodoxy.

But even more so to try to explain that to other people in standard evangelical churches I mean the the chasm is is huge there. And I just don't see myself as being the one who has the ability to To try to bridge that chasm let alone really the desire to do so either so further.

They I've really never found anybody who could. Well. You know the interesting thing is the only Eastern Orthodox folks that I.

Have been helped by in understanding their perspectives were the same Eastern Orthodox folks who had no interest in debating me whatsoever and Did not have any problem with me being a Christian. It was it was the fire-breathing.

We are the one true church, and you folks are all split off from us. They I think both lack the the willingness and the ability to To make that type of communication and again because they've got to make some effort from their side.

That's what's difficult here is that it is really a very very wide and hard field to to address because They think differently they think in different paradigms. They don't think in the Western mindset.

And it makes it very very difficult and people on our side want to ask questions that they just go that's not even really a Question for us and we go what has to be because you say this over here. And they don't see the connections that we see.

So it becomes extremely difficult all of that to come back to the the idea that the liturgy that has become the the law of And the very container of the theology of Eastern Orthodoxy has to be. They stay do still at least partake of the of the idea that Roman Catholics have that There's back in the back your mind somewhere no matter what you do with Newman's development hypothesis and all the rest that stuff.

You still have to have the idea that the primitives believed what we believe at least in Some type of seed form and and once you start looking at liturgy and things like that they say hey here's the primary evidence that even we are more ancient than the Romans because Look at it look at the liturgy the the the consistency of the liturgy and things like that so you end up with this type Of anachronism where you're asking these early writers to address issues that just were not on their on their radar screen.

It'd be the same thing like reading something that I've written today In light of some conflict that comes up 200 years from now that I'm not even familiar with it would be unfair to try to Say well, he would have said this because of this over here, so when we when we look at The issue of solo scriptura, I think obviously Brother King and brother Webster have done a fine job in Pointing out that so much of the information that is published out there ignores the normative recognition on the part of the patristic writers of a Difference between that which is inspired and that which is not they do recognize that they do have a high view of God Said these things now you're right some of them didn't even have access to the full can of scripture.

I mean Justin Martyr you look at his theology and the primary reason that it breaks down at certain areas is because He never once quotes Paul. He doesn't even seem to be familiar With with the Pauline epistles and so he has a a limited exposure to the New Testament texts at that point.

But the the question really is is somewhat irrelevant for this reason and you you already touched on it. And that is if these individuals Do not even have the entire canon of scripture Then why are you trying to make that relevant to a situation where we all? have the entire canon of scripture and the question is what is authoritative for the church and what is not and These individuals were not Promoting to us some kind of of nebulous undefinable Tradition that is contained only in the infallible statements of the Roman Church I mean, that's just not what they believed and in fact many of them made statements exactly contrary to that.

Tertullian's of course famous mockery of his opponents using that very kind of definition of tradition is Something that immediately comes to mind so If we allow them to be who they were Then we see that they had the kind of view of scripture that did place scripture on a completely different par than anything else.

But then we have to remember they didn't have all of scripture and therefore some of their beliefs were Not as balanced as we would like them to have some are just downright wrong. We have to examine them in the exact same light that we would want to be examined.

But unfortunately in the types of debates that you're engaging in trying to get somebody on the other side to be fair on that level in light of their dogmatic authorities that define for them what they have to believe is Sometimes very difficult to do.

I think that I think that last the last point you made about the you know the comparison between What they're talking about and what you know this nebulous? You know it right, you know it's very very helpful.

It also it occurred to me.

And comparing that kind of to the idea. Yeah, well obviously the second that's when she was teen at the context. There is the gospel which had been preached to the Thessalonians both in Paul's presence as well as by his letters.

That one's really clear. But but also very clear is is Irenaeus is use of tradition when you look at what his tradition was it is sub biblical that is it is derived from the biblical testimony. As you go farther down the road and developments away from biblical teaching begin to seep in.

Obviously those promoting those things are going to seek to start finding some other way of substantiating later. Emendations they make to the faith, but The the reality remains that from their perspective.

They recognize there is a difference between that which inspired and that which is not this idea of well. It's all just tradition. That's just written tradition. We have oral tradition, and it's all just one big blob of stuff that only we can define.

But we won't define it for you, and if you ask us to define it for you We will call you an anti-catholic bigot or something that that's just simply not a part of the that that early period at all and it has to be read into it and Once you've you've in essence signed your mind over to a dogmatic definition that you can't question well.

You're good. That's what you're gonna read into it. That's that's that we see it over and over again, but you got to remember. You know years and years ago when I was doing basically what you're doing.

But it was back on a BBS if you don't know what a BBS is before the Internet. Spending hours typing up patristic citations and digging things out and things like that and it's very important to do that.

I Learned you know over the years afterwards that you can't always know who's observing. Those encounters and it sometimes can become very easy to become. Disillusioned disheartened burned out especially when the primary person you're talking to just seems to be absolutely Incapable and unwilling of listening to what you're saying.

But there are others who are watching there are others who are seeing it. And it's those people that years later all of a sudden you meet them at a church someplace. And they say you have no idea, but you know 15 years ago.

What you wrote here was absolutely instrumental in my conversion my coming to Christ my not going into this I think you just never know and so as long as you have the right attitude in doing it. It's you know for the glory of Christ then I can sort of help avoid the the burnouts syndrome.

I learned I learned quite a white opponent. For the lurkers the people I never know are reading and you know hopefully it's only for me at the time.

Yeah, I I will never forget. Jerry Matta ticks in one of our debates I I quoted from an early church writer and all of a sudden. Well, but he wasn't early church father you see he's just an early church writer.

And and no matter what it would what you'd throw at him. It was just it was just so obvious that it was well I pick and choose which sources I will and will not accept. That's just all there is to it and the people on my side of the argument could see that and they're sitting there going don't.

You see this, but then you look across the aisle, and here's a version. Oh, oh that mmm the wise yes. Oh, and and you just you want to beat your head against the desk. But you know you can't because they then they'd have that on video and play it forever, so.

They would.

All righty, sir. Thanks very much for your time. Thank you for calling. God bless today.

Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. Let's talk with Anthony up in Colorado where I'm gonna be heading in May early May of next year to be heading up to do a Series up in Colorado.

Hopefully it'll be nice up there. Can you arrange for it to be nice in in May in Colorado for me? Yes, sir, okay good. You're supposed to say I'm sorry. I can't control the weather in Colorado. In fact no one can.

All right, I'm sorry. That's all right guys. I have a question. Yeah, we know Sir I was calling in about the issue of Christ vision. Mm-hmm last week Micah had a Jesus immediately after he. Could you Explain your view on this for me well.

Christ's Descent, Hades, Paradise, and the Intermediate State

The the only the only issues here of course people know the Apostles Creed and the the phrase descended into hell that comes from Peter's discussion of something that we we really don't know a whole lot about because it is only mentioned in in passing and that is That Jesus is said to have made Proclamation to the spirits who are in prison now there are all sorts of issues as to the identification of these spirits.

Specifically they are said to have been disobedient in the days of Noah. On there's one direction of interpretation that identifies these with the sons of God in Genesis 6 that they are in a Special place of restriction or imprisonment because they specifically attempted to destroy God's plan through the seat of the woman by corrupting the human race in that way and therefore they have been kept under a Special guard and that all this is talking about is that Jesus went and made proclamation of his victory over them after his crucifixion in that situation then you also have the question of Jesus' statement of I have not yet ascended to my father and to your father to my God and your God.

And so is that to be understood as there was there there are some who've developed in a rather complex idea that there was a time after the crucifixion where Christ Enters into the presence of the father presents his sacrifice there.

And that that's different from the ascension in the end of Luke for example when Jesus is taken up from the disciples that it's that those are two different things and Fit that into the various resurrection appearances.

So that those are those are some of the issues that are raised there now the idea of Jesus going into hell to suffer. That's a completely different thing. That's completely different than the idea of Jesus making proclamation of his victory Over certain spirits in a place called Tartarus.

There is no evidence Jesus goes into hell and suffers in hell. In fact a lot of that goes back to confusion as to the various terms used in the Bible. And in English translations the Bible between Hades, which is the realm the dead Gehenna Which is hell.

Hades, which is the realm the dead Sha 'ol in the Old Testament is the Hebrew term for the realm the dead. They are not the same thing we see that in Revelation when it says that that death and Hades are cast into the lake of fire.

So there's there's a difference between them and not all English translations are overly consistent in their rendering of those things but the the primary idea is that Jesus does not go into hell to To be tormented by demons or something like that as many people have tried to present that idea His his sacrifice has already been accepted and So when he says the thief on the cross Today, you'll be be with me in paradise.

Paradise was not necessarily the same thing as heaven either. This is another issue and that is in Luke 16, we have the story of the rich man Lazarus and It seems that the Abraham the Abraham's bosom is Different than being in the presence of Christ.

So is this what is referred to when it says he led captivity captive? That is that there is a transition a change after the death of Christ to where The believer goes directly into the presence of the Lord because they are in Christ and he's opened up that way.

That's that's a possibility as well. But I think we need to be careful not to try to Get too dogmatic about The things after this life in the sense of there are many people written entire books as to exactly what heaven's gonna look like or exactly what's gonna be like.

I Don't think we can know I think there's there's We see in a glass darkly and and and we we really have a hard time. I think grasping exactly what life is going to be like after this physical life and So I think we need to affirm what is plainly affirmed but resist the temptation to try to create the exact kind of Description that some people want to come up with about certain of these things.

All right. Well, thank you, sir. Okay. I just blew my mind away cuz like I didn't know well.

Yeah a paradise and we'll think about it in Luke 16. You you have word is the the word is Lazarus goes he goes to what's called Abraham's bosom and The rich man is is in torment, but he can see where Abraham is and where Lazarus is.

So that's not in heaven at that point. Everyone in the Old Testament goes to show all when they die, which is the realm the dead evidently it has two compartments to it. But Paul says that when he dies he will be in the presence of the Lord.

So there's some type of a transition it seems and that might be what is what is mentioned by Paul when he says he led Captivity captive that is that those righteous who had been in Shaul, but were in comfort in Shaul Go to the presence of Christ With his at his resurrection and that every believer after that then enters directly into the presence of Christ upon their death, so that's one of the questions that is brought up as the relationship of Shaul and Hades the grave so on and so forth.

It's um, it's pretty big big area actually. Big isn't a lot of discussion about it. I don't know how big it is. I've never measured it myself. All right. All right. Thank you, sir. All right. Thanks for calling Anthony.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Hey, he made it didn't pass out. That's. It's young man from our chat channel that has come a long Long way from when he first showed up. So I'm glad Anthony called in today and we appreciate his participation in the channel, even though sometimes some of us older folks don't.

But the Lord helps us with our patience. We're gonna take a brief break be back with Andy and your phone calls eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

Kindle, Study Tools, and Redeeming the Time

Alpha and Omega ministries is pleased to introduce the Christmas morning CD by Todd Lindstrom. Passion and peace are what sets Todd's music apart from others. These 12 instrumental favorites will bless and inspire you as you entertain guests and spend a Christmas morning with your family.

You can find this beautiful music that celebrates the birth of our Lord in the bookstore that a omen org. The history of the Christian Church pivots on the doctrine of justification by faith. Once the core of the Reformation the church today often ignores or misunderstands this foundational doctrine.

In his book the God who justifies theologian James White calls believers to a fresh appreciation of Understanding of and dedication to the great doctrine of justification and then provides an exegesis of the key scripture texts on this theme.

Justification is the heart of the gospel in today's culture where tolerance is the new absolute. James White proclaims with passion the truth and centrality of the doctrine of justification by faith. Dr. J. Adams says I lost sleep over this book.

I simply couldn't put it down. James White writes the way an exegetically and theologically Oriented pastor appreciates. This is no book for casual reading. There is solid meat throughout an outstanding contribution in every sense of the words.

The God who justifies by dr. James White get your copy today at a omen org. You Hello everyone, this is Rich Pierce. In a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man-centered self-help program.

The need for a no-nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater. I am convinced that a great many go to church every Sunday yet. They have never been confronted with their sin. Alpha Omega Ministries is dedicated to presenting the gospel in a clear and concise manner making no excuses.

Man is sinful and God is holy. That sinful man is in need of a perfect Savior and Jesus Christ is that perfect Savior? We are to come before the Holy God with an empty hand of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well. Support Alpha and Omega Ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.

Thank you.

And I'll go back to the dividing line. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four. One is the phone number that Andy called.

Hi, Andy. Hi, Dr. White. Yes, sir. Hey, thank you for taking my call. I just want to thank you for the Forgotten Trinity. I had read it a couple times and just realized that my own church how many people have absolutely Really no clue what the Trinity is and that kind of leads to my question.

But before let me just tell you what happened. I went to a pageant and I was talking to a buddy. And somebody brought up the word Trinity and I said, well, what's up with the Trinity and he said well, why are you using the word Trinity?

And I said, what do you mean? Why am I using the word Trinity? He said it's not in the Bible. And I said, wait a minute. Hold on. I said you sound like a Muslim because I thought he was putting me on.

I'm like you sound like a you know Muslim who says because the Bible doesn't say or Jesus doesn't say I am God. Exactly in those words. He can't be God and I kind of was like, well, where did you hear this from?

And he said he went to a Bible study and Some guy had brought it up. He goes to some BSF. I don't know if you ever heard of that. It's like Bible study fellowship and they they end up kicking that guy out.

But now this guy kind of took on this and he's like, well, it's not that important. He's like, you know, it's not in the Bible. We can't understand it. So that's it. And I said, are you kidding me? And it just got it went from bad to worse because I thought at first he just didn't want to use the word Trinity.

But if I kept asking him questions like about the person of the Holy Spirit and Who Jesus Christ was I mean, it just got bad he was kind of saying like on the cross Jesus Christ the Spirit of God left Jesus Christ, and I'm like Okay, and then we talked about the Holy Spirit.

He said God is spirit. But I said, well, what do you mean? God is spirit. God the Father God the Holy Spirit and like he couldn't delineate no. And then I asked him, you know. It was just thank you for your book because I was asked, you know able to ask him some questions And I just kind of wanted to know when when is it like heretical?

I guess because I mean as a Christian we have to I mean, that's a fun, you know foundational doctrine, isn't it? It is and You're you're you're unfortunately.