Jeff Durbin Explains Predestination

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So, one last word here. You brought up the issue of slavery, and you brought up the issue of death and abuse, of physical torture.

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You brought up physical torture. She was physically abused, and slavery, and everything else. You know, God could not possibly have a purpose in any of that, and still continue to judge the wicked man for doing it.

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I would again point you to what you already know, because you've heard it from us a number of times, and that is in the book of Acts, you have

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Jesus, who was actually physically tortured, and abused, and murdered on a tree.

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And of course, the church says, God gathered in this city against your holy servant Jesus, Pontius Pilate, Herod, the peoples of Israel, the

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Gentiles, to do whatever your hand predestined to occur. The murder, the abuse of the

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Lord of glory, the Lord Jesus on the cross, was according to God's predetermined plan.

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And you can't give me an example that's worse than that. Nope. Not worse than that. You cannot. Good point.

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Calvinism states that every event in the history of the world is predestined. Well, that's what the Bible teaches.

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And that God specifically created each person to go to heaven or hell. That no individual has free agency.

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Kramen, we've already debunked that. But all of their choices and intentions were designed by God to do so.

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Sorry, that's a lie. People are responsible for the sin that's within their own hearts. God is sovereign even over that sin.

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And they don't thwart their God. And their punishment of hell is just a reaction to their actions in which God imposed upon them.

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Lies. Kwaku, you're lying. This is pure false witness. And I want to say this, that the one benefit of this,

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Kwaku, I'm going to say this to you gently. The one benefit of you writing articles like this is that it leaves behind a public record of ignorance.

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A long -term public record of ignorance that you just do not know what you're talking about.

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And if you continue to propagate these stories, it only demonstrates that you have no intention of having integrity when talking about other people's belief system.

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Now, I'm sure that you want us to have integrity when we talk about yours. And I want you to know you have our commitment to do so.

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But you have no commitment to integrity. So let me just talk through this real fast. And you guys jump in. He says,

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Calvinism states that every event in the history of the world is predestined. Yes. And that God specifically created each person to go to heaven or hell.

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Well, let's flesh that out. Romans. Romans 9, maybe. Chapter 9.

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John chapter 6. I would just point you there. Romans chapter 9. John chapter 6.

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Let me just go ahead and just read the passage for you as an example. More can be done on this. But this is where I would go to point you in terms of let's look at what

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God says about this. In Romans chapter 9, it says in verse 9.

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For this is what the promise said. About this time next year I will return and Sarah will have a son. Shall have a son.

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And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing good, either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of him who calls, she was told the older will serve the younger as it is written,

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Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. Can we just say one quick thing about that? That directly refutes a sentence that he wrote.

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And that is that the punishment of God in hell is a just reaction to their sins.

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That passage you just read said that before they had done either good or bad was

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God's sovereign decree of election. That's right. So irrespective of their good and bad deeds, God's choice stands.

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His choice of grace. Ultimately. That's right. What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part?

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Don't you think it's interesting that Kwaku's writing an article accusing God of injustice? Right, yeah.

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And Paul's already dealt with that. Is there injustice on God's part? By no means. For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom

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I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. See that's the central reference point that Kwaku misses, is that he writes this in such a way as to describe all of humanity as basically these good sort of morally neutral people.

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Right. What God says here about election is I'll have mercy on whom I have mercy and compassion on whom I have compassion.

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The issue here is God's grace and mercy upon rebellious and hostile people.

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That's the issue. So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who has mercy.

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Here's the point. What is the reference point here for Paul in this whole discussion about predestination and election?

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What's the reference point? God's mercy. Yep. God's mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, for this very purpose,

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I've raised you up. Then I might show my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

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You will say to me then, why does he still find fault for who can resist his will? But who are you, old man, to answer back to God?

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Will what is molded say to its molder, why have you made me like this? Has the potter no right over the clay to make out of the same lump?

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One vessel for honorable use and one other for dishonorable use. So here's the point. You have all of humanity, according to Paul, that's one sinful lump.

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All of us deserve what? What is this sinful lump of humanity deserve? If they got justice, if God was fair with them and he gave them what they deserved, what does all of humanity deserve according to scripture?

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What do we all deserve? Tell us. They burned in a fire. We all deserve punishment. We all deserve to be separated from God.

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So the issue here is not this morally neutral lot of humanity that God is just going, hell for you, heaven for you.

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No, it's an entire rebellious, hostile humanity that hates God, turns away from God.

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They will not have God. And God chooses to give mercy, which is the compelling issue that you miss,

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Kwaku. You act like humanity is neutral, morally neutral with God, basically good people.

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And how could God just give salvation to some and not to others? Don't they all deserve it? No, what they all deserve is hell.

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That whole lump should have gone into the fire. But God chose to give some salvation.

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And I actually personally believe that the vast majority of humanity will receive God's grace at the end of time. That's my personal position on that.

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That's not universalism. No caveat. I am saying in terms of the future, I believe the kingdom of God will have victory over the world.

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And I think personally that the largest mass of humanity will be actually given grace. But that would also get into the eschatology question.

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But that's another issue. The point is, is that God chose to give grace. Grace is the issue.

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Undeserved grace and mercy. Now watch this. When God gives grace to a human being, it is an exercise of majestic resurrection power for God to give grace to a hostile rebel sinner.

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It's God acting and moving in a powerful way to give mercy and grace, to change hearts and open eyes and give ears and change spiritual condition.

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But when God chooses to give judgment to somebody, what does he have to do there? Nothing. Let them have what they want.

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God doesn't have to act against them, move against them, make them hate him. They do hate him. All he has to do is let them be what they want.

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What do you have to do, by the way, to get clay to get hard? What do you have to do? Leave it alone. Let clay be clay.

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Let clay be clay. And the potter has the right over the clay to do what he wants.

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Makes vessels of honorable use and some for dishonorable. This whole lot of humanity deserves hell.

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We all deserve it. The astonishing thing here, Kwaku, is not that God gives anybody what they want with hell, which is what they all want, not

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God. The astonishing thing is that he would save one, anyone. You should be in awe that a holy

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God chose to save any of us. And that just goes to show you have a view of God where he's not very holy, not very righteous, not very just, and not really ultimately worthy to be so offended.

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Yeah. That's your God. And he's not the potter that scripture describes him to be doing as he will with his own creation.

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Yeah. That's the idea is that I think it's powerful that Paul, I think, has in mind Isaiah chapter 45 in this, in verse nine, where it says, woe to him who strives with him, who formed him a pot among earthen pots.

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Does the clay say to him who forms it, what are you making? Or your work has no handles. Paul has the mindset of Isaiah, the prophet in Romans chapter nine, and saying that all of creation is

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God's. He can do with everybody as he pleases to do. And it has glorified him to out of the same lump, make some that are destined for honorable use and some for dishonorable use to his glory.

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And he gives the example of Pharaoh as someone that he raises up for that very purpose to be displayed as his power.

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And it's not because God is somehow lacking in anything or he is attempting to boast of his own attributes as the article.

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I'm sure, I don't know if we have time to get to it today, but it goes on to say that it says that God is essentially boasting and making a big deal about himself because he lacks something.

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He's insecure. Why would God do this? God wished to prove his power and omnipotence to whom?

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Nobody. Calvinism doesn't teach a plurality of gods. In this denomination, there is no pre -earth existence, no grand heavenly council, just an unexplainable nothingness.

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Okay, hold on. That's all of Christianity teaches that. That before the world began, it was

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God? Yeah, and it denies a plurality of gods and the pre -existence and all that.

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God's a saiyyite, meaning he's self -existent. He doesn't derive his being from the creation.

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He is before all things. Not just the denomination of Calvinism. That's right. By the way,

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Kwaku, if you had listened to what we believe about the triune God, if you read some of the books that Dr.

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White gave to you, if you had listened to our shows, anything at all and worked on this, you would realize this isn't a very powerful reaction or compelling in any way.

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We believe that God is triune and from all eternity existed in perfect holy fellowship,

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Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God was never lacking in anything. Not one thing. Whatsoever.

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John 1 is a good example. The beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. Just an unexplainable nothingness, except for God.

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And he showed his power to the myriads of nothing by creating man and enacting cruelty to benefit him.

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You see, this is what's interesting here, is that you think man deserves glory. You think man deserves glory in some way.

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You think man deserves to be the centerpiece here. You think man deserves to be the center of reference.

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That man must be the center of attention. And the fact that you would have a God who does things for his own glory and boasting and power, like, no, you need men there.

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You got to have some men there to receive some credit or they have to be a part of this process to glory. Well, because he wants us to be like him.

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This is a person who believes he's going to become a God one day. The exaltation of man is the key assumption. There we go.

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So, it says, many works can be used to describe this rather pernicious theology. Many would call it backwards, evil, satanic, or cruel.

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However, there's one word I would use, insecure. There's a desperation in the somewhat mainline Christian teaching of eternal pain and damnation for of those outside of your religious preference.

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But there's an undeniable and extreme insecurity in the belief that everyone else was created to fail except for you.

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For example, imagine the 47 -year -old janitor who was recently released from prison. When he reflects back on his life, he feels an unshakable embrace of disappointment.

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He feels broken dreams and regretful decisions. He is angry. He is bitter. And he wants fulfillment. When he searches for solace in religion, he'll be humbled.

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Yet, if he embraces Calvinism, he is told he is one of the elect. He was predestined to be with God while everyone else was predestined to fail.

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His life wasn't meaningless, but most others were. Yet, this straw man takes the cake here.

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This is a big one. Light it on fire. Nobody talks like that in Reformed theology, and you're just continuing on displaying that you just do not know what you're talking about.

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Yeah, one doesn't need to have been in a horrible place like prison to feel that resentment towards humanity or even to feel a deep insecurity.

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However, it is likely they must be burdened by these feelings to embrace the doctrine and teachings of Calvinism. So that's what this is now.

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It's an emotional assessment on the part of Kwaku in all his 22 years of wisdom to basically say what's really happening within Reformed folks is that it's not the word of God that's driving their theology.

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Which he didn't use an ounce of. It's insecurity. Yeah. They're just insecure. And perhaps such insecurity resonates well with the

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God of Calvinism, a God that needed to prove his power, a God that created the world to boast in his own glory, a

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God that wasn't secure in himself and had to resort to bragging, a God that only loves the

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Calvinist, a God that only sent his son to die solely for the Calvinist or like -minded Protestants. So, I'll go backwards.

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A God that only loves the Calvinist. I don't know any Reformed person who has ever believed that or taught that.

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Can you reference something, Kwaku, of any Calvinist that's saying God only loves Calvinist? You can't.

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You won't find anything like that. A God that only loves the Calvinist. Interesting.

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I find it compelling that in order to come against Reformed theology, you have to lie about Reformed theology to make your case.

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Now, when it comes to God and his glory. Yes, please. Yes. Let's go there. Maybe Isaiah 48.

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Go ahead. You go ahead. For my name's sake, I defer my anger. For the sake of my praise, I restrain it for you, that I may not cut you off.

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Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver. I have tried you in the furnace of affliction for my own sake.

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For my own sake. I do it. For how should my name be profaned? My glory, I will not give to another.

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Maybe just another example to the promise of the new covenant in Ezekiel chapter 36. I was just going there.

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Why is the redemption of God? For what purpose did he undertake the redemption of a particular people in Jesus Christ?

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Can I read that? Please. He says this. He says to Israel, he says they profaned his name.

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They had no concern for his holy name. He says in verse 21 of 36 of Ezekiel. But I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel has profaned among the nations to which they came.

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Therefore say to the house of Israel, thus says the Lord God, it is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I'm about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came.

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I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations and which you have profaned among them.

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And the nations will know that I am the Lord declares the Lord God. When through you, I vindicate my holiness before their eyes.

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So it's interesting here is the promise in a new covenant and God's indwelling spirit. God says, I'm going to do it. Not for you, not for you.

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I'm going to do it for my namesake, for my glory. Yep. You've drugged my name through the mud. It's not for your sake that I'm acting.

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It's for my own namesake. And don't you think if you were wanting to somehow represent

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Calvinists as believing that God is needy, that God would have said something different in that passage for the sake of you, because I need you so much because I'm not sufficient in myself.

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I must redeem you. No, that's not the God of scripture. The scripture presents to us.

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It is a God by whom no swearing can be higher than him. He's the height of all things.

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You cannot swear by anything higher than him. He, uh, there's nothing above him. So of course he acts of his own, uh, will and for the sake of his own glory.

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Yeah. Because there's none like him. That's right. It was just like the Bible tells us. And the verses that we've already quoted for the past few weeks,

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Isaiah, just read Isaiah chapters 40 through 48 talking about there. There's none like him. Who are you going to compare him to?

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That, by the way, is not Mormon, uh, theology. There is none like him. That's where I was going to go. Sorry.

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Go ahead. No, go ahead. Yeah. I was just going to say, yeah, there's plenty of gods like him. You know, there's again, an infinite number of gods and Kwaku hopes to be one of those gods.