Sunday School - The Roman Catholic Controversy Part 16

Silicon Valley Reformed Baptist Church

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September 10, 2023

The Roman Catholic Controversy Part 16 Date: September 3, 2023 Teacher: Pastor Brian Garcia

Adult Sunday School - The Roman Catholic Controversy Part 17

00:08: Beloved let's open in a word of prayer.
00:11: Oh We're ready or no.
00:13: Yeah, okay great Good and gracious father we come before you acknowledging our faults our fallen nature our Destitute standing apart from Christ we pray Lord that you would in this moment Be a reminder to us of our depravity, but also of our security in Jesus That it is totally by grace that we've been saved And it is the outworking of your work in us of faith And so father we pray that you would enable us to be activated this morning to hear this teaching to receive it gladly and also Lord that we would know the true meaning of Christ sacrifice that our crap that our Passover lamb has indeed been sacrificed once and for all time For the sins of his people for the redemption of their souls and we pray this in Jesus name.
01:10: Amen We're gonna continue on this morning in the I think was the what it's 10th chapter Oh 11th chapter we're in the 11th chapter and so we're still in the topic of mass on page 165 Of our books in the Roman Catholic controversy we're gonna continue to look at the Roman Catholic understanding of mass and how it contrasts with The message of the gospel and this is a really important part This is why I didn't want to skim over this part of the chapter and just move on to the next chapter Is because it really is You know quite important So we learned last week kind of the main views on Communion, okay.
01:59: So the Roman Catholic one is called what I Always have a hard time with that word Yeah Transubstantiation English is tough sometimes So there's transubstantiation which means what That's right.
02:24: So So trans means change transform And Substantiation mean it comes from the word of substance and the Greek and so there's a change of substance According to Roman Catholic dogma of the elements of the communion.
02:40: So they actually the bread and the wine Actually become literally the body and blood of Jesus now it only remains So the the substance of the of the elements change, but the appearance does not Okay, so that's the Roman Catholic understanding so the substance of the of the matter changes not the appearance Then you have of course other views co-substantiation which means What? Consubstantiation.
03:13: Yeah means what? Yeah So it's a kind of the Lutheran perspective which says That the substance themselves don't change Rather it is a substance around or in so Christ is in in around the substance But he doesn't change the substance and then you have the memorialist view of communion, which is Yeah, which is basically a memorialist view of the communion table just essentially says that the table doesn't change Nothing changes, there's nothing miraculous that happens.
04:01: There's nothing of substance that changes but that it's just a Memorial, it's just a memorial in the in the elements are just there to be a reminder.
04:12: Okay? Yeah, I mean I don't want to trivialize it too much where such as something we do But yeah, I mean the memorialist view of the communion tables.
04:20: It says yeah, essentially like there is no substantial change Metaphysically metaphorically spiritually, there's there's there's no change to the elements Rather.
04:32: This is just something we do as a memorial of what? Of the Lord's Supper of the Lord's table Well, then there's this spiritual presence Which is the view that we would take predominantly of course in our inner here in our church Which is that there there is no change in the substance of the of the matter of the bread and the wine But rather what changes is the well not nothing that changes But rather that Christ is spiritually present in the elements, right? so that his his his his his the Elements are true drink true food by virtue of the the spiritual impartation of His presence right so so we believe in the spiritual presence of Christ in the communion Not just a memorialist view where nothing there.
05:26: There is no spiritual Impartation or grace that's happening in the part in our partaking of communion.
05:32: We would say no that there is there is True spiritual value in the communion table in in what we do in what we practice, right? But their view is he's With the elements.
05:57: Yeah Not changing them, but he's there.
06:03: Yeah We're still reforming Substantially But he couldn't quite let go of it.
06:20: That's right.
06:20: Yeah, there was there was some tension there.
06:22: Absolutely Yeah, I mean you get that a lot with Luther Luther had a lot again his his intent was to reform the Roman Catholic Church not to start something new and so his you still see a lot of a Kind of the Catholic dogma and all the ways that he was thinking including in the communion table That's right, and so we again we hold to a spiritual view of the of the communion elements And so what what what difference does it really make? Okay, you got these four major views that we just went over again What difference does it make? You know tomato tomato or is it? I don't I never heard of that one, but it could very well be you know, what why this is an issue is because First of all, this is an important issue the Lord instituted the Lord's Supper So we should have a pretty good grasp and the theology surrounding it Because it's one of the few things that he personally instituted that he told us to continue to do Remembrance of him.
08:09: So therefore it has great theological significance and importance also has theological importance and significance in the Roman Catholic worldview because in Roman Catholic dogma, the mass is central to salvation and In the catechism the Roman Catholic catechism in quoting Vatican 2 it says this is from page 165 in our book as often as the sacrifice of the cross by which Christ our Passover or pash has been sacrificed as celebrate on the altar the work of our redemption is carried out and so they believe that the reoccurring Eucharist a reoccurring mass service is There is literally the work of our redemption being carried out weekly, right? And so it is a again re-offering of the body and blood of Christ before the altar through the hands of the sacerdotal The sacerdote the priest and he offers it and he he is, you know Literally offering Christ's over for the sins of his people, right? So they believe it's that you know It's that weekly Passover, right? So and remember the Passover, you know, if you didn't do the Passover, right? You were you were killed you were you know You were cut off.
09:28: Not only were you cut off like if and you know in The Israelite practice it but if you were at the initial Passover Where the Lord carried out his plague upon Egypt you would be cut off literally Destroyed so there was great importance to it.
09:48: But from the Roman Catholic view it is really salvation being Displayed weekly, which is why you need to take your weekly mass and this is why it lasts rights is an important thing as well because it is again that Offering of sin that offering that's being done from the priests on behalf of the sinner and And it's very integral part to the message of Roman Catholicism Well, the salvation is not Definite in Roman Catholicism, right? There is no definite salvation there is no assurance of salvation with Roman Catholicism, which is why you have the system of penance and you have the system of works that you have in Rome is because you you you don't know until you get there and You may be you did just well enough to skate by or do you maybe have to spend some time in purgatory? Or the case may be and so there is no great assurance of salvation Roman Catholicism So it's kind of hard to answer that question in that way, but ultimately the answer is yeah There is there is no definite hope which is why they have to continually weekly do these things So and to a degree, you know again, there's a there's a Like if you meet the average Catholic Ben Shapiro, you guys know Ben Shapiro Social conservative commentator who's Jewish he made a fascinating statement that I think that I think is true Not just of Judaism, but it's true of Roman Catholicism.
11:26: You know, he had said recently that You don't that the mark of of like true religion is not what you believe is what you do Right, so you can it doesn't really matter what you believe It just matters what you do because even if you don't believe what you do, what's right? You find God in the process, right? And that that is a remarkable statement again Because it's a workspace salvation message essentially, but it's true of the way that a lot of Jewish people and a lot of Catholic people practice their religion they don't really know sometimes I don't even really believe but they do either for cultural reasons or out of you know, Issues of just morality they want to be a good person.
12:12: They like the social settings.
12:13: So they'll do what's required of the religion and Belief is secondary Belief is kind of it's there if it's not there doesn't really matter as long as you do and that's Roman Catholicism That's Judaism.
12:26: That's every workspace religion in a nutshell.
12:28: It doesn't really matter what you believe Well, what's true to the text just matters more what you do and everything else is secondary We're the opposite is true of in Protestantism What you believe is really important oftentimes sometimes to a degree more important than what you do, right? Because from a from a from a biblical perspective, we all know that we all fall short, you know, we're who has ever apart from Christ Perfectly lived up to biblical standards and morality You know, I'd venture to so far as to say that if if your sins from just the past 24 hours Were put on display here.
13:12: We probably never see your face here again Right because it is just the nature of our fallen Humanity and so really, you know Our beliefs are really important and it will determine often how we live more Fundamentally than how we live determining our beliefs.
13:35: So so this is why it's such an important discussion because it really comes down to the heart of the gospel part of what the Biblical teaching is surrounding the the finished work of Christ.
13:45: And so again Vatican says that Christ is being offered on the altar weekly and this is a work that is being that the work of our redemption is being carried out by means of the mass by means of the sastra the sastra dough, which is the priest coming forward presenting Christ and then Offering him up for the people Any questions so far It said that yeah go for it Yeah, I'm not sure who you're referring to So I can't comment on that But you know, there's two things that I'd like to focus on here Which is one of the things that James White focuses and carries on in this chapter as well And so it says there's two major areas that I wish to focus our attention on the first the idea that the Eucharist involves Transubstantiation that is that the wafer and the wine are changed by the power of God into the actual flesh and blood of Jesus Christ So one of the things is is that could God do that? Sure, you can And do anything he wants he's sovereign and he can do that if he wants it's not too hard for him or too difficult The question is not can God do it is does he do it? Right You feel like you want to say something We're taking You know, no one denies that Christ is present in the Right, we don't deny that what is the grand difference between What we adhere to in the spiritual presence and What transubstantiation teaches is that one is talking about the substance of the elements being changed? While we believe that the true substance that needs changing Isn't the bread or the wine but rather the heart Okay, and that's what it always comes down to What is communion there to do It's there to change the substance of our hearts not for its substance to be changed in itself And so you know, that's what it really just comes down to that's and that and that's where you understand the heart and the intention behind the Lord's Supper is a way in which we are weekly in touch with the Lord Jesus Christ And what do we do like just look at the way that we practice it, right? here at our church, you know, we take time we pass the elements and And you know, and that's a time of reflection.
17:08: There's no fancy music being played in the background.
17:10: There's no videos on monitors It's just a quiet time corporately with between us and the Lord where we get to examine ourselves and Confess our sins and come before that altar of grace knowing that in Jesus.
17:25: We have a fountain of forgiveness We have a fountain of love.
17:27: We have a fountain of Redemption and and and in the sense in the like in the Roman Catholic sense We we I too would say that that the communion tables is a picture of our redemption But they would go farther and saying okay, of course, it's not just a picture It is it is actual redemption being played out And I would agree with that in one sense, which is to say that again in communion we are Receiving the spiritual impartation of Jesus's life, right? So Jesus's is is in fellowship with us Through the through the table.
18:05: We are in fellowship with him We are breaking bread and it is all pointing towards an eschatological Future and reality which is that one day we will break bread and drink with him and you in the kingdom of heaven Right and that's actually pointing towards an actual event.
18:22: Do we even know what that event is pointing to? Revelation 19 The invitation to the wedding to the Feast that the the Lamb's Supper.
18:42: Okay the communion table is a Reminder that we are in covenant relationship with Jesus and it's leading up to the consummation of the church Which is the Lord's? The Lamb's Marriage Supper That's what it's all pointing to That's why Jesus says you'll drink a new of it me again in the kingdom of heaven And when is that gonna be that's gonna be at the consummation at the last day when Christ is Making all things new new heavens new earth and he comes in glory and he truly Consummates and marries his bride and this is gonna be a glorious thing That's what commune is pointing to is pointing toward that future Which is why it says we do this until the Lord what? Returns why because when he returns we'll have one last communion with him And it's the ushering in of the eternal age of the eternal state.
19:37: I mean, isn't that awesome? Go for it.
20:03: Yeah.
20:05: Well, that's a whole nother discussion But you know, I'm a sucker for eschatology so here goes the rabbit trail That's That's the easy way of putting it but no, you know, you know the rapture is of course, it's an interesting notion We'd we I would say that first of all the when you think of rapture, you're probably thinking of an unbiblical concept because most people's perception of a rapture is you know the secret event that happens seven years three and a half years before the second coming and People just disappear and you're gonna be looking for your neighbor All you see, you know next to the mower is his jeans and a t-shirt, right? And and that's not a biblical teaching whatsoever.
20:54: It's for in a church history until the 1850s You know, it's it's just not what the Bible teaches.
20:59: The word rapture is not in the Bible The word caught up is which is where the word rapture raptizo comes from Which is from 1st Thessalonians 416 Which says when the Lord himself will descend from heaven with the voice of the Archangel And all those who are in Christ shall be caught up With him to meet him in the air and they shall forever be with the Lord And so according to Paul in 1st Thessalonians 416 When does the rapture the caught the catching up of God's people happen when he comes when he descends from heaven, right? And so the the the coming of the Lord is clearly at his coming Or they're caught up the catching up of the Saints is clearly at his coming This is what Jesus also says in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 Luke 21 Where it says he shall gather his elect from the four corners of the earth Which is the second coming with the context and and they shall meet him and be with him, right? and so every text that refers to a second coming event or a rapture event is Directly correlated with the second coming when you look at Revelation chapter 19 for instance from verses 6 to To 10 it talks about that eschatological event, which is This great multitude, which is the Saints They're being gathered before the throne and it says in verse 7 Let us rejoice and exalt and give him glory For the marriage of the Lamb has come and his bride has made herself ready That is the catching up of God's people when God's people are raptured or caught up and will be changed first Corinthians 15 in the twinkling of an eye our Substance at that moment will be changed and will be in resurrected glory It will be presented to the Lord Jesus Christ and that's gonna be awesome It's just gonna be a glorious event.
22:55: And so we'll be presented perfectly without blemish Ephesians chapter 5 and so that happens at the second coming Again, which is one of reasons why I'm all millennial is because that only only in all millennialism Does these chain of events have a perfect sequence and actually makes sense to what the grand text of the Bible is teaching? and also This is also pointing towards what communion is all about.
23:22: It's it's a preparation for that day So when we think of like, you know before a wedding day you do dress rehearsals you know, I just did a wedding in Wisconsin for a friend of ours for Alberto and his beautiful bride Karina and You know, we had to go there several hours beforehand and we had a practice We did a run-through maybe like three or four times Just so we make sure we get it right because it's an important day, isn't it? When you get married and it's a beautiful ceremony and their significance behind everything And so you want to make sure you get it just right So you do a couple run-throughs? Well every Sunday when we gather we're doing a run-through We are preparing ourselves for that marriage supper.
24:04: We're preparing ourselves for that Eventual event and so that's the way I want us to think about communion is is we're not just doing this monotonous thing Just because you know, we're kind of commanded to do so in Scripture, but it's leading up to something It's building towards something and that's that's the right mentality to have in regard to communion So hopefully I killed two birds with one stone with that, right? Okay He asked a question by eschatology you missed it man, and so So any other thoughts or questions Yeah, it seems like you got something else you want to shoot.
24:40: No, okay All right and so that helps us kind of set the framework for this discussion this morning in regard to communion and regard to Mass and the Eucharist is that the substance of the Elements is not what's of importance here of Ultimate importance because I think there is importance for instance Anyone here ever been to a Mormon Church service before Okay, I'll save you a lot of time it's very boring and and it's not as if that's not most important thing but They have weekly communion as well.
25:17: Okay, the Mormon Church does But the Mormon Church practices can be a little bit differently Here in our church will have unleavened bread as an element for the for the for the bread and then they will have grape juice or wine Mormon Church has wonder bread and water That's passed out every every week Yeah water not even grape juice and it's not just like one church.
25:43: This is like it's this is common standard practice You know Mormon churches.
25:46: They don't have Even grape juice, it's just water and It's not unleavened bread.
25:52: It's it's one is literally wonder bread I saw the bishop in the back, you know with a loaf of wonder bread Just cut it up and just put it in the little tubes, right? So and this is again common practice What is wrong with that? If the evangelical church did that what would be wrong with it? So the bread is love and that's one issue right and and You've probably been to a lot of different maybe Evangelical churches non-denominational churches that they'll serve Leavened bread.
26:24: I know I did I went to a church a really groovy church plant Probably like 10 12 years ago Really groovy church.
26:33: Yeah, it was that it was this is it was a it was a cool church It was like all the hip young people went it was an axe 29 church plans Driscoll was like super cool still and So all the cool reformed guys went to this church and we did community by they they called it by intention So we would take bread and it was actual bread to like, you know, but it's like probably like sourdough bread It was actually pretty yummy and then we would dip it in the juice and then we would you know Eat it that way.
27:01: So they call it doing community by intention.
27:03: They called it and a lot of churches would do that don't just have regular bread or Wafer so it's not even I Don't know what it is.
27:13: I don't know what's made of but it's not unleavened bread and And they'll have that with grape juice or wine.
27:19: I have a problem with that.
27:21: I think that the substance of What Christ has called us to do is a really great importance and I don't think we should take liberty in changing things or elements that Christ has so Clearly ordained for the church, which is why we take such a passionate stance in regard to baptism as well So sprinkling isn't baptism.
27:43: It's something different.
27:44: So if you have Leavened bread for communion.
27:48: That's not communion That is something different by definition because what the Lord said and what he has instituted should be what is practice So that should be the practice and rule of the church is what Christ has said So, I mean and I talked to evangelicals, you know about this sometimes they look at me like I'm crazy and it's like well Who's the crazy one? We just want to do what Jesus says and how he established it so to do anything other than would be you know, excuse the strong word, but it's a bastardization of what he has called us to do and so So I would say that the elements are important.
28:25: Okay, or the substance of the elements I think it needs to be on leavened bread and I think it needs to be wine or at least grape juice now within Baptist debates There's a strong debate between grape juice and and in line, right? So you got something flowing over here.
28:41: What do you got? Now this is this there's there's a true tension.
28:52: There's a true tension there I want to embrace the tension there because there's a true tension there right especially within baptistic circles I'm of I've got friends who are Baptists who they will never you'll never catch them drinking alcohol of any kind, right? and and they are true to that and Even with the communion and I'd say and I've heard some pretty persuasive arguments from their side and saying listen If you think the alcohol or the wine that Jesus was drinking is anything like alcohol today.
29:23: You've got another thing coming it's it was very different the way that the way that they you know Produce wine the way we produce wine very different things, you know, if wine to a large degree was more just Almost like sparkling, you know grape juice and that and that that's more akin to what Jesus probably would have used Anyways, very low alcohol content if any And so and I've heard some persuasive things in that regard and I've actually one of my Baptist friends He says, you know the the right way of doing it is just having bubbly great sparkling grape juice Because it's the ideas of spirits.
30:04: It's the spirits that's in it.
30:05: That makes it bubble.
30:06: It's it's like it's alive That's that and that's why there's that connection with wine because it's it's it's it's spirits It's that spirit when we talk about spirits.
30:14: We're not talking like actual spirits We're just spirits is a term for alcohol and what makes alcohol interesting is that there is Fermentation which has you know living organisms essentially that makes it kind of alive and bubbly and all these things So that's the that that's a whole nother paper trail I have changed in that in that I was once one of those Baptists who did not drink You know drop of alcohol and I did so for conscientious issues.
30:42: I was working at a addiction recovery program I seen how alcohol ravages and you know, really fundamentally can be dangerous for people's you know lives and their spiritual well-being and So, you know we over always offered grape juice as an alternative But now I've become more I'm becoming more staunch and thinking that yeah, I think just wine and that's the way I'm leaning towards But again, we got at least get some grape in there.
31:13: So So I'm more lenient on the drink side of things but I am more, you know, there is that there's obviously attention there.
31:22: Yeah Category And I would say, you know in response to the my Baptist friends who think that you know, the alcohol content Was more like non-existent We know from first Corinthians 11 that the brothers were getting drunk off of the communion.
32:57: And so You know, I think that that's that's a big part of what we're trying to do We're trying to do is we're trying to do is we're trying to do is we're trying to do is we're trying to do is That's right Wine makes the heart glad and you know Now, yeah, I'll be honest.
33:13: I hate alcohol.
33:14: I can't stand it.
33:15: I just can't say there's nothing about it.
33:17: That makes me happy It doesn't taste good, there's just no good taste to it.
33:23: But anyways No, we'll never get out of that debate, huh But again, so the the the effect here is important.
33:40: We have to remember what's the importance of the substance? That's where we got in this kind of this tangent here on the elements.
33:46: I think the elements are important, right? So what is presented has to be what Christ told us to do Which is the communion was of unleavened bread and it was of the fruit of the vine wine And so those are the two elements.
33:59: I think we must have in order for it to be true communion However, it's beyond the actual matter of the substance is the substance of the heart That's what is being transformed in communion.
34:11: And so it's the believers heart that's changing not the substance itself so the substances of the Substance of the elements is a vehicle for change for the substance of the heart because it's a reminder It's a spiritual presence of Christ in the life of the believer And so that that's if we want to talk if we talk to a Roman Catholic I really think that that is the way to go So if you ever talked to a Roman Catholic on this issue of transubstantiation, you ask, okay, what's a greater importance? That the elements change in substance or that the heart of the one who is the recipient changes What's the more important aspect here? and I think you'll find some common ground and saying well, of course the heart is the heart of the recipient is More important and so then you have something to build on as you're talking to a Roman Catholic on this issue of transubstantiation Any thoughts or questions on that? Pastor and then that's right You know, so there's a context to that phrase, you know, we bring it up a lot in the context of communion, right? to examine oneself Let's go actually go to that text in first Corinthians 11 We can see the full context here Let's start in verse 17 First Corinthians 11 17 says been the following instruction that do not commend you So he's saying you're not doing good in this area because when you come together it is not for the better, but for the worse From the first place when you come together as a church I hear that there are divisions among you and I believe it in part For there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized When you come together it is not the Lord's Supper that you eat Okay, this is a very interesting statement for an eating.
37:34: Each one goes ahead with his own meal One goes hungry another gets drunk.
37:39: What do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the Church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What should I say to you? Should I commend you in this? No, I will not so what's happening in the early church here in Corinth is that they're as they were coming together for church and as they're coming for communion each person was kind of having his bringing their own plate and Bringing their own food and they're eating separately from the others and then they're not they're also not Sharing they're not taking corporately.
38:09: It's like each person's doing their own thing, right? So he says you're not doing communion.
38:13: You're not doing Lord's Supper You're doing something totally different which is exactly my point that I made earlier about the elements If you're doing not what was instructed you're by definition doing something us something other than And so he's in some he's saying to some of them.
38:30: They're even getting drunk And this is it where it gets important verse 4 at 23 for I receive from the Lord What else deliver to you? The Lord Jesus the night when he was betrayed took bread and when he had given thanks he broke it and said this is my body Which is for you do this in remembrance of me in the same way Also, he took the cup after supper saying this cup is the new covenant in my blood Do this as often as you drink in remembrance of me for as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes so this is a Institution that is to continue until the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, which ushers in the Lord's marriage supper from Revelation 19 verse 27 Whoever therefore eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner Will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord Let a person examine himself then and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup For anyone who eats and drinks this without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself This is why many of you are weak and ill and some have died So what's he actually talking about here when he talks about? discerning the body discerning Not eating or drinking an unworthy manner He's not saying.
39:45: Oh, just this is like a personalized thing.
39:47: That's what he's condemning in the first place What he's saying is make sure you don't come with this with an attitude of independence right because what he's not saying is Oh Examine yourself to see whether you're worthy to receive or to partake That's not what he's saying a lot of Christians will interpret that so let's say they have a sin that they've sinned this week And because that sin they're gonna exclude themselves from the table, right? That's not an appropriate use of the table And it's not an appropriate Use of this text and this is how a lot of evangelicals will approach this tax And they'll make it very individualized and they'll say well.
40:22: I did something wrong this week.
40:23: I don't think I'm worthy to partake It's not what he's talking about whatsoever again the context is some of you guys are being knucklehead boneheads You're not doing communion right and you're drinking judgment upon yourselves.
40:34: Okay? Yeah I would say that's exactly what he's talking about No, I would say I'd say both there's a double entendre there right so he's clearly saying listen You guys are what were they doing wrong? They weren't taking it corporately.
41:02: They're being selfish They were hoarding for themselves some were getting even drunk in communion, and so he's saying the way you're doing it is wrong That's not even communion.
41:11: It's not even the Lord's Supper Here's the right way of doing it from what I received from the Lord Jesus Christ is this Institutes that and then he says and you have to you have don't drink and take of this in an unworthy manner Because now you'll be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord And if you if you eat and you drink without discerning the body which is of course Christ But also the body of Christ the church Then you're actually drinking judgment upon yourself and so again that was the sin issue that he's dealing with in regard to the table This was not an individual matter.
41:47: This is a corporate matter and so the whole issue between You know for instance the disciplinary issues that we see in Scripture in Matthew 18 and Matthew 16 the keys of the kingdom belongs to the church belongs to people of God and so who exercises authority to you know Discipline which means to remove fellowship from the table that power doesn't belong to the individual it belongs to the church Right corporately, so that's that's an important distinction Yeah, and look what he says in verse 33 He says so that my brothers when you come together to eat wait for one another if anyone is hungry Let him eat at home So that when you come together, it will not be for judgment about the other things I will give directions when I come right and so he he's clearly talking about the wrong practice and use of the communion table In that church in Corinth, and so he disciplines them.
43:04: He corrects them.
43:04: He says this is the way it should be done and And so again the eating or drinking judgment of ourselves is is by not Discerning the body of Christ in his death, but also in the body corporately of Christ the church And so that's that's what the text is actually coming to.
43:23: Yeah Absolutely as there is to all the things that we do corporately There's an individual element to it, but it's ultimately done corporately, which is you know, that's that's the key.
43:48: Yeah I Opened our time together this morning by saying if our sins that we committed in just the last 24 hours We're put on display here We probably never show our face here again Right, and so the reality is is that that's exactly what communion is for it's so that that sinner has a place of respite has a place where forgiveness and redemption is Magnified and played out again in the Christian life.
45:18: And so I I would If that was the metric then no one would partake Right if the metric was perfection then my goodness You know, what are you know who could stand the scripture says and so, you know my heart would and I think what the scripture teaches again, why is communion so essential and why is it important to consider and And what and what means that we have to not drink judgment upon ourselves is to remember that we come to this table With fear and trembling it's a reminder of Christ's propitiatory offering as for our sins It's reminded upon him the wrath of God Abided on him so that it can pass over me.
46:04: That's my victory that's what I'm gonna hold on to and only the church corporately has the authority to Withdraw someone from that table by affirming either their unrepentant sin or by saying that this person has unrepentant sin that hasn't been dealt with and either is either an unbeliever or is you know is Has to be dealt with and that's how we deal with it But if if for instance if we have a disciplinary matter where we're working through with someone And that person has not been Excommunicated that that person still has access to the table and it is a means of grace For them as it is to the rest of us And that helped John I Mean it's certainly an opportunity for Shepherds to weigh in and find out You know, is there a reason why you didn't partake and it usually comes from a misunderstanding of the text that we just pointed out right where they feel like they can they did wrong or they you know, they're In a sense, there's I understand that there's there's a piety to it But I think it's a false piety and it's a piety in the sense that you know It's an acknowledgment that I did wrong this week Maybe I talked to my wife in the way.
48:43: I shouldn't have talked to her.
48:44: Maybe you know, I got upset Maybe you know, I did something wrong and I want to preserve the holiness of that table by by not by not partaking of it and And that is a sense that is in a sense of not, you know a sense of piety but I would say it's a false sense of piety because ultimately, you know It's what what makes it what makes us partaking unworthy is when we don't it's not that it's not when we're sinners Because then again who could stand who could who could partake but rather is Not acknowledging Corporate body, which is what they were failing to do in the you know chapter 11 verses 17 onward of Not considering the other brothers and they were going ahead and doing their own communion.
49:35: They weren't sharing they weren't doing this You know, this is a corporate matter.
49:39: Why is it corporate is because again? What is it pointing to it's pointing to the marriage supper of the Lamb and that's gonna be all of us, right? and what does Christ get presented with at that last day according to Ephesians 5 a perfect spotless unblemished bride and That's what we're working towards in communion.
49:59: It's what we are Again, it's the rehearsal.
50:03: It's a dress rehearsal So, yeah, ultimately, you know If someone were to do that we would certainly use as an opportunity this Shepherd, yeah Yeah, let me give you an example just you know, if we're doing communion, you know Well, we usually give you pretty clear instructions as to how we partake who can partake when to partake And you know if someone does not heed those instructions They are not considering the body Right, they're not considering the instruction and Again, that's what was happening in Corinth was a failure to adhere to the instruction of the Lord's Supper Right, and so a failure to adhere to the Lord's Supper is again Eating it's it's it's taking the Lord's tape on an unworthy manner and it's being guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord Yeah in context is referring to examining one another Yeah, yeah again like what what we see is that their failure to follow the instructions You know in verse 17 says been the following instructions.
51:36: I do not commend you because they weren't following instructions Because when you come together it is not for the better But for the worst and how can it be for the worst is because they weren't doing communion as he as the Lord had commanded them which was to do it corporately which was to pass the emblems pray for them and Instead each person was going ahead and eating his own meal and others were getting drunk And there was just no consideration for the table, and that was making it an unworthy manner Yeah It could be you know And that's the whole context of what we're discussing here in this chapter right is is is the Eucharist of the Roman Catholic Mass Is that a proper true communion, and we would say no for several reasons and the two of them first one being the dealing with the Transubstantiation and the second being with what has actually been accomplished in the elements where they believe that what's happening in the elements is that Christ is being sacrificed again Where we would say Christ was sacrificed once and for all time And so we're not reoffering Christ on the altar, but rather We are receiving the spiritual Impartation of his presence through the communion not that he is now Become us an offer for us again for the sins that we've committed in the week I appreciate something yet to be done.
53:13: That's right It's perfect, what's that? What does the word Eucharist mean our to our resident scholar Emanuel? It's just a you know The early church fathers used that term often and then the Roman Catholic Church as they tend to do hijacked it and You know made it something other than made it something grandiose and other than what was originally used in this context so But the early church fathers particularly pre-nation fathers did use the Eucharist as a as a word to describe the communion table What's that Masses just means like ceremony Your thoughts or questions, so here's what we're gonna leave off so I think I think we're okay to finish up This discussion on on them on the Eucharist and on the mass and Essentially what the rest of the remainder of this chapter does is it looks at the proof text of Roman Catholicism we already kind of went over this last week as well and You know for instance in John chapter 6 and it talks about how You know in those texts of scripture Jesus says you must eat of my flesh and drink of my blood if you want to have eternal life and Really what it comes down to is when you look at what Jesus is actually talking about eating just equals believing in that context He's not talking about communion because first of all community had not yet been instituted So he's not talking about you know The Lord's Supper and when you look at how he uses other phrases in that very same chapter Likens himself to the bread of heaven like himself to manna He harkens back to Old Testament themes He's clearly Delineating and demonstrating how eating in this context means believing in him, right? drinking means Believing in him receiving of him And so ultimately when when Jesus says you must eat of my flesh and drink of my blood is we have to believe on his Flesh believe on his blood believe in what that work is accomplished for us So that we may have eternal life and that it's consistent with the rest of the narrative of scripture That were saved by grace through faith not of ourselves.
55:57: It's not something we can earn There's no token that we can receive throughout the week in order to earn that salvation It is all by grace through faith And so I think we can leave this discussion of the Eucharist with that high note So just to recap some important things again when you're talking to a Roman Catholic the important thing to talk about is the substance Not the substance of the bread or the wine, but the substance of what's actually happening Behind the bread and the wine that it's the heart that's being transformed not the elements themselves Right, and that's where it really comes down to any last thoughts or questions on this chapter manual right Well, your witnesses are just another case and completely it's because they believe rightly That the communion is for the new covenant the problem is is that Jehovah's Witnesses believe the only 144,000 make up that new covenant and That the rest of humanity what they call the other sheep or the great crowd are not Participants of the new covenant rather the beneficiaries of it So the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses Don't believe they're part of the 144,000 new covenant class rather they believe that they are just beneficiaries of it as other sheep and that Therefore when you go to their yearly memorial service or yearly communion service You'll see that the vast majority if not everyone in the kingdom hall will pass the plates, but no one will partake Unless you're part of that 144,000 I'm going to class then they partake because they're the ones going to heaven.
57:44: They're the brothers of Christ But Jehovah's Witnesses at a grand scale The vast majority of Jehovah the seven million of them Believe that they are not anointed or they're not of the Anointed classes they call it.
57:59: They're not participants of the new covenant rather.
58:02: They are just beneficiaries of it.
58:05: So Totally other Concept there, but at least they get the they get the wine and the bread right when they pass it It's actually unleavened bread and wine.
58:14: So give them some credit So, all right.
58:18: Well, let me pray guys Father we thank you that you're a good God and that in the communion We're reminded of your grace reminded of your power your presence with us And the power and the presence of your forgiveness Lord Let that be our theme today even as we preach the word later today in the service How we've been forgiven and loved much by your grace by your kindness and Lord how that overflows in every other aspect of our lives Knowing that if we have been truly forgiven of our sins past present and future We can hold on to this joy We can hold on to this peace that surpasses understanding and Lord may guard our hearts and our minds Even as we worship you this morning in Jesus name.
58:56: We do pray.