June 24, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Dr. David Murray on his new book “The Happy Christian: Ten Ways to be a Joyful Believer in a Gloomy World”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris.

Arnzen. Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity on the planet Earth listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Wednesday and I am so thrilled to have our guest, David Murray, on the program today, a dear old friend who was on Iron Sharpens Iron in the past when we originally ran between 2006 and 2011.

Dr. David Murray is the professor of practical theology and at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, founded by the president, Joel Beakey, who has also been a guest here on Iron Sharpens Iron many times and we look forward to having him back.

And Dr. David Murray is the author of Jesus on Every Page and Christians Get Depressed Too, the latter of which I was personally enormously blessed by after the passing of my my wife, Julie, and it was actually given to me directly by David Murray, our guest, as a gift during those dark times and today we're going to be discussing Dr. Murray's latest book, The Happy Christian, Ten Ways to Be a Joyful Believer in a Gloomy World.

Welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr. David Murray. Thank you so much, brother, and as our listeners can immediately detect, Dr. Murray is not originally from Grand Rapids, Michigan. He is from Scotland.

Whereabouts in Scotland are you from, originally?

Well, I was...

And my current pastor, after I relocated to Carlisle, Pennsylvania, from New York, my current pastor, David Campbell, is a fellow native of Scotland. Do you know.

David?

Yeah, I do, actually. I don't know him well, but I think they both went to...

Yes, they did. Well, I know that David Murray did, yes. I mean, I'm sorry, David Campbell did.

David Campbell did, yes. I don't think... I may be wrong, but I don't think I've met David, but he has many good things about him.

He's a precious brother and a wonderful shepherd and an excellent preacher. A soft-spoken man, but a powerful preacher. And, well, the reason why I find this topic fascinating today, The Happy Christian, is because I'm wondering if you had a lot of Calvinists say to you, Excuse me?

You're writing on what? Calvinists aren't supposed to write books called The Happy Christian. Have you had that kind of reaction?

Oh, yeah.

Well, just to put our listeners at ease, who are fellow Reformed believers, this book has received high accolades from folks like Dr. Richard Phillips, senior minister of Second Presbyterian Church in Greenville, South Carolina, who says a timely corrective to both the excesses of the prosperity gospel and the gloomy spirit that overcomes so many Christians.

Also a name that is very familiar to most Reformed Christians, Derek Thomas, the Robert Strohn Professor of Systematic and Historical Theology at Reform Theological Seminary in Atlanta, Georgia, and senior minister of the First Presbyterian Church in Columbia, South Carolina.

He writes a robust and welcome defense of how the gospel acts in the lives of those who have been transformed by a great read, transforming and uplifting, and there are many others as well. And a lot of this confusion over why on earth a Christian, a Calvinist Christian, would write a book called The Happy Christian, a lot of it, I'm sure, is a reaction, when people are puzzled by this, it's a reaction to not only the fluff and the heresy and the syrupy sweet man-centered nonsense that we hear from Christian pulpits on the television and radio constantly, and also many of the best-selling books that even transcend Christendom and are top sellers amongst unbelievers in the world that are written by Christians, or so-called, are on this type of a theme, but obviously they're drawing totally different conclusions on how one is to be happy.

Take us in a contrast between, for instance, one of the founding fathers of the Positive Thinking Movement, Norman Vincent Peale, and his protege, Robert Schuller, and many others have mastered the power of positive thinking, theology, or ideology, or philosophy.

How would this book that you have written contrast with that?

Yeah, absolutely. Man-centered circumstance, in other words, this is something you find within yourself, and it's something that, for example, in these two aspects at least, to promote is to not use circumstances, of course he does at times.

You know, I'm just very concerned. Yeah, well, one of the reasons why, another one of the reasons.

Why non-Calvinists would be puzzled as to why a Calvinist would write a book for the happy Christian is because they have a completely slanderous or caricatured understanding of what Calvinism teaches and who we are.

Now, of course, we've all met gloomy, depressing, stoic, arrogant Calvinists, but they're not all that way, and the theology shouldn't produce that. In fact, as you and I well know, and as all of our Presbyterian listeners would know, the very first question in the Westminster Shorter Catechism is, what is the chief end of man?

And the answer is, a man's chief end is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. That seems like a remarkable statement, especially the latter half of it, for a Presbyterian creed or confession, isn't it?

Glorify God, and I think to see God as something cold, as robotic, as bigger, that's what we'll be like, too. On the other hand, if we see God blessed, though...

And I'm going to announce our email address, if you have a question for Dr. David Murray, our email address is chrisarnzen, at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N, at gmail .com, and for the first five listeners who email a question that we read on the air, you'll receive a free copy of Dr. David Murray's new book, The Happy Christian, Ten Ways to be a Joyful Believer in a Gloomy World, that will be sent to you absolutely free of charge, compliments of Thomas Nelson books, and also our friends at the Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com.

CVBBS .com will actually be shipping you that book, so it doesn't cost Iron Sharpens Iron a dime to ship those out, and we want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for helping to support the work here of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And now, of course, Calvinists don't corner the market on the persona or the character of continuing non-stop anger and righteous indignation and gloom and doom. Of course, there are many in the on that identity, and of course, there is always a mixture of slander and caricature, and unfortunately, there are many instances of these things being true.

A gospel minister who stands behind the pulpit, doesn't he need to not only give the bad news, which is an absolutely essential element of the gospel, to present the bad news before giving the good news, but he needs to give the good news, and he needs to give hope and reasons for people to have joy, and with the understanding that the modern-day false ecumenical gospel that is being spewed from the pulpits today, the modern evangelical gospel, I should say, is one where they just want to give good news without the bad news, and yet no one can really appreciate how glorious and amazing and wonderful the good news is unless we hear the bad news.

So you have those errors on both sides, don't you? You have those that eliminate the bad news and those that eliminate the good news.

Yeah, I think, and the fact is that in the Bible, you see in the Psalmist and you see in the Apostle Paul that they combine both, and that's realistic. God has given us and yet he's also given us things to grieve us, and I think that's why, for example, the Apostle Paul has a beautiful passage that he is sorrowful yet always rejoicing, and that's one of the reasons I think he's just alive, that we're not long in this world, in our own lives, and therefore we need a faith to deal with the sorrow and the pain.

Yeah, and one of the major problems I have found when I hear authors like Joel Osteen and those of his ilk being interviewed on secular television, I have never read a Joel Osteen book, I'm just judging from what he has said from his pulpit and from his interviews.

Very often these books that they tout, that they've written, are using earthly means, unbiblical or extra biblical and very often anti-biblical methods for a person of any religion or no religion to achieve happiness.

In fact, the chief end of man in that sort of catechism would be to enjoy life forever and without the aspect of a glorifying God, and if you could comment on that. Isn't it often the case that these men who seek to tickle the ears of their listeners are often just giving proverbial language that any person of any religion or no religion who has common sense might develop?

...to the natural idea that I could tell you who doesn't want God. My question is, every year, from what I can gather, it's not. It's a revolving contract, you get along with it, and then life, and your health, and your church doesn't ring true, and most people ultimately, it's not like they turn down.

Wanting. And we do have a listener in Arlington, Texas, who writes,. While I certainly have an intellectual assent to God's sovereignty and providence, I have experienced some trials over the last three years that have placed a fog between my intellectual understanding and my practical living.

How can I practically pierce the fog to fully experience the joy? Well, that's a rather poetic way that he has expressed his question, but if you could comment on Ken from Arlington, Texas, his question.

Yeah, I think that's a job. You have the psalmist continually wrestling with. Are you like this? Or the psalmist does keep standing up again, but it's hard for me to believe this in the light of what's happened here, here, and here.

I'm struggling because of this. I'm thinking this. Have you got no... And I think it's in that he begins to take his truth to a deeper level in our hearts in an applied way, not just in a theoretical way.

Easy, 78, 77. It's a painful, but eventually, if we stay that course...

And by the way, Ken, if you could, please email us your mailing address, because you're getting a free copy of The Happy Christian by Dr. David Murray. I apologize I didn't mention before, those who are emailing us questions, please include your mailing address, because as I said, the first five whose questions we read on air will receive a free copy of the book.

And even if we don't have time to read all five questions on the air, if you're among the first five that email me, as long as they're reasonable questions, we will send you off a free book. And this is one of the things that makes me very unhappy, Dr. Murray, is that my eyesight is failing me, which is why I could barely read the last question that my listener emailed us.

I realize that I need new prescription glasses here.

As long as it's not your ears, Chris.

Or my voice, right?

Yeah.

We do have another question from a listener in Ridgewood, Queens, New York. Johnny writes, the scriptures in Isaiah 58 tell us to call the Sabbath a delight. Why is it that so few modern Christians delight in the Sabbath day?

And how did our Puritan forefathers seek to remember it, keep it holy, and delight in it? And what are some practical exercises we can glean from them that will help us and our families to delight in the Sabbath?

Well, that's interesting because you are a professor at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary. And if anybody has the stereotypical description of being dark, gloomy, and joyless, it's the Puritans. But that wasn't even true, was it?

Sex in marriage, of course.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah, we don't hate the sex of marriage.

Why?

Because from what I've seen, you know, Chris, I've had a long interest, is caused by an overwork. That people are deceased from our works. And I think eventually the best way, and I'm just not going to cooperate anymore.

Our brain does the same. Again, she does the same. Recognize that has given us this. I think that's where we want to start again. It's to see this as a gracious, loving, kind, and loving God. Using his means of graces.

No, we're just saying, yeah. If you ask our children, they'll tell you they love the Lord. They just love the rest. They love the quiet. They love being able just to be at peace and read. And no pressure to work.

And that's the way I've seen it.

Providing.

And we have another question from a listener. Todd in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. That I originally was thinking, maybe I shouldn't read this. Because it's not on the subject. But then I said to myself, what actually very much relates to the subject of happiness.

Because, and you'll find out why in a minute. Todd in Carlisle, Pennsylvania writes, David Murray recently spoke at the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology Conference on same-sex marriage. Actually, I'm sorry.

It's sex and marriage.

Yeah.

What would he say is the biggest threat to biblical marriage? And how should the church best combat it? And that's where the same-sex part comes in. Because that is what is the biggest threat today, it seems.

To traditional biblical marriage. Other than the sins that take place in the personal lives of married people.

Yeah.

I'm talking about the... And I'm actually not really 100 sure which angle our listener was taking on that. But the reason why I said that it does relate. Is that what you hear constantly, the drumbeat of people that are in favor of same-sex marriage.

People who are in favor of Bruce Jender's self-mutilation. Through elective surgery and hormone treatments. And all these things that are going on that are an abomination in the sight of God. The drumbeat that you constantly hear is, if these people want to be happy, and this is how they believe they're going to find true happiness and joy.

Why don't you just leave them alone? Stop raining on their parade. Let them be happy in the way that they seek to be happy. Unless they are in some way harming another individual. Now I'm going to let you think on that as we go to a station break.

So we can take your answer to Todd's question when we come back. And of course he may have been addressing an even broader picture on marriage. Biblical marriage than just what we're hearing in the news constantly about same-sex marriage.

But you can respond after the station break. And remember if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. David Murray, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And please include your mailing address so you can receive a free copy of David Murray's book. We'll be right back after these messages.

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If you've just tuned us in, our guest today is Dr. David Murray who is a professor of practical theology at Puerton Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He's the author of Jesus on Every Page and Christians Get Depressed Too.

Today we're discussing his latest book, The Happy Christian, 10 Ways to Be a Joyful Believer in a Gloomy World. And where we left off before the break, Todd in Carlisle, Pennsylvania wrote, David Murray recently spoke at the Presbyterian Conference on Reform Theology on sex and marriage.

What would he say is the biggest threat to biblical marriage and how should the church best combat it? And I was just saying that it relates, I believe, because very often the root of sin is individuals seeking happiness in an unbiblical manner.

And that isn't only related to homosexual marriage, so-called, but even in heterosexual Christian marriages there is sin and there is divorce and there is anguish and depression and fighting and separation because of people seeking happiness above all else in an unbiblical way.

Now, if you could respond to what Todd asked and what I commented on.

It's terrible to be married and doing that, even if they've been brought up in this way. It's terrible marriages, biblical marriage. And that's an area where we can take responsibility for. We don't need the Supreme Court to change that.

Of course, marriage is such a vital and central part to so many people's lives. If that's wrong, then our lives are not going to be happy. That's why in the book, marriage in one chapter, you see a lot of people are going into marriage with, you know, what can I get out of this?

Mainly looking for happiness, of course. And, you know, that's okay to a degree, but that you're not, what can I do? The more I get, the happier I'll be. But Jesus says, no, the more you give, the happier you'll be.

It's more blessed to give than to receive. That's not just speaking about giving money. In that case, I think we also need to use it in the book. And what's remarkable in all the scientific research into happiness is how much it's confirming the biblical view, the Bible's view of happiness, which we shouldn't be surprised about.

Through science, we'll always have information that the media are just so desperate. This is one area of science. And, you know, this guy, are people any safer? Can people be happy at all? We too can, you know, appeal to in your own state.

Yes, we will never find true lasting happiness if we violate God's law and His commands and His will for our lives, will we? I mean, we may have momentary happiness. While sin, in some way, deceives us into believing that we are happy for a brief period of time.

But it doesn't really give lasting joy, does it?

Blessed nation, most happy nation, because it's been given such laws. And if you look at Psalm 1, blessed is the man whose life is based upon. And if you look at Kepler perfectly, he was the blessed man.

Again, it's an act of faith. It goes against our faith in the media. And there's another way to put it.

We have an anonymous listener who writes to us from Georgia who wants to know, is it ever within the will of God for a Christian who is plagued with depression to take medication? And he also adds that other Christians have rebuked him and basically are telling him that he is not relying on the goodness and grace of God, that his problems are all based in sin in some way, even if he doesn't recognize what the sin is, and that the medication is wrong for him to be taking.

So, if you could comment on that.

Yeah, the first thing... ...and of medical lack, including our brain, the most complicated organ in our whole body. Yes, our pancreas and our heart have fallen, but it's even more fallen, you might say, or more messed up.

You can expect the brain to have damage to it with a malfunction, too much and too little electricity, too much and too little... ...that will alter our feelings. A false view of, I give medication, a wonderful gift, yes, people live on that.

Again, viewing man in a holistic way...

Now, don't you think, having said what you said, giving hearty approval to people taking appropriate medication, don't you think that we are living in a day and age when psychologists or psychiatrists, or both, or doctors, general practitioners, are having medicine prescribed to children especially, but also adults, in too far of a rampant way, where as soon as somebody says, I'm depressed, the immediate thing they do is get out a prescription pad.

Oh, yeah.

Don't you think that it can be also harmful? We even see the commercials sometimes about the side effects of these things and people having suicidal reaction at times.

Never the only resort. On the other side of the alleviated by trying something... ...a knock-on effect. And maybe not just themselves, but their families suffer for many years as well through their incapacity and inability to do basic things.

Yet, at times, indeed, the people who are prescribed for patients...

Yes, and I think, wouldn't you agree, it would be a great idea for people, if they're seeing a psychologist, a psychiatrist, or if they're being prescribed a medication, to ask brothers and sisters in Christ they trust, if they know anybody who's been on this certain kind of medication and what the side effects have been and all that kind of thing, in addition to a medical professional advice, which can sometimes just be as misleading as anything else, brothers in Christ who have experienced the prescription and so on.

No, they approach these things in a human kind of way. ...in these areas, psychological problems...

We have to go to one final station break. If you'd like to email us a question for Dr. Murray, please do it now because we're running out of time. We've got about less than 15 minutes left. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. We'll be right back after these messages, so don't go away.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you've just tuned us in, our guest today has been Dr. David Murray of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We're discussing his book, The Happy Christian, 10 Ways to Be Joyful, a Joyful Believer in a Gloomy World.

And we do have another listener who has written us a question. Brian in Toronto, Canada. And I believe I see where he's relating this to happiness. He says, Absolutely everything happens for some divine reason.

On one hand, it's emotionally difficult to understand for some that God has not lost control in relationship to all kinds of horrific evil that takes place on this planet. But what about all this evil?

On the other hand, it's emotionally encouraging to understand no oops, O-O-P-S, exists in the Almighty. And that was an interesting way of phrasing it. I have a pastor friend, Josh Fryman in Riverhead, Long Island, who uses the phrase, there's no bloopers in the Bible.

Isn't that a source of comfort, joy, peace, and happiness, to know that whatever is happening on this planet, that God is in control and he has a reason for it.

...conceive of how anyone could experience this. ...then I have a basis to fight for joy in that. No doubt, being in that battle, ...as you come to terms with your own...

Yes, and thanks to Brian in Toronto, Canada for that question, or actually comment that related to the topic for today. One thing that I have said before on this program and I've said to others in relationship to what you just said, isn't it amazing, and this shows just the common grace of God, in my opinion, isn't it amazing that those who reject God's sovereignty over all earthly events, or all events anywhere in heaven or on earth or anywhere in the universe, those that reject that, that he is in total sovereign control over all things, they still walk away from a funeral of a beloved one that has perished in their sin with no evidence of being a Christian.

And these Christians who reject Calvinism or Reformed theology will most often, with some exception, will most often eventually come to some semblance of peace and tranquility and calm and acceptance over this death.

But that is really inconsistent with their theology, isn't it? Because if they had only witnessed, evangelized to that person one more time, that person could have been saved. If they had only been more loving or more articulate or more humble when they evangelized, that person could have been saved.

And you could go on and on and on with scenarios, but those who believe in the sovereignty of God need not torture ourselves with that and it's proof that these people aren't really, for the most part, torturing themselves either, because by God's grace they're being inconsistent, aren't they?

Catch all of that. Chris, your voice is breaking up a bit. Oh, I'm sorry about that.

Basically what I mean is, is there any logical reason why an Arminian can have a sleepful, restful, peaceful night's sleep when loved ones die lost? They do very often, eventually, because they're really being inconsistent with their rejection of God's control over all things, aren't they?

Yeah, because again, when the rest in place...

And if you could, we have less than seven minutes left, I really want you to unburden your heart with what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of.

Our listeners when they leave this program. They hunted down Elijah people... I thought these were ten that were low-hanging fruit. And what will balance and even overcome to people means he is provided.

And of course, going back to something we said earlier, our personal happiness is not to be the all-in-all of why we exist, is it?

No, it's become an idol. Again, I think that's one of the reasons why many Christians don't want to admit that they're an idol. Now, it need not be Nehemiah. He said that... And I think that's one of the fascinating things that the science of happiness has shown much in the last 10 -15 years, that how much even their exam performance or job performance are going to come under increasing persecution, are going to feel weaker and weaker, and we are going to need to seek...

Now, the words in the Scriptures count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds and other scriptural commands even, that we rejoice in the midst of suffering. Don't you think that there are many Christians that abuse those texts and begin to judge their brethren who, after suffering a horrific or tragic loss, after an insufficient period of time, start laying into the person a guilt trip?

But why on earth are you still gloomy and depressed over this? You've really got to snap out of it. And I know that I've even been on the personal end of that kind of counsel, which is reminiscent of Job's friends, which were no friends at all.

But isn't that something that, unfortunately, is all too frequent, where people put an unbiblical timetable on the length of time somebody is supposed to be grieving the loss of a loved one or mourning over some other tragedy in their life?

Well, thank you so much, Dr. David Murray. I really eagerly want you back on the program soon. In fact, we can even continue this topic. The book can be investigated at happychristian .net. Happychristian .net is the website where you can learn more about this book, The Happy Christian, by Dr. David Murray.

I want to thank all of our listeners from all over the United States and Canada who wrote in today with questions. And I want all of you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

God bless, and thanks a lot, Dr. Murray, for being with us today.

Thank you, Chris. God bless you.

Thank you, brother. God bless you too.