December 20, 2018 Show with Dr. William Webster and Rev. David T. King on “The Lie of Rome that Sola Scriptura Was Invented by the Reformers” (Part Two)

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are

listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 20th

day of December 2018 and I am so delighted to have

part two of a fascinating discussion we began last Wednesday on the 12th of December.

Today we have Dr. William Webster and Rev. David T. King returning for part

two of The Lie of Rome that Sola Scriptura was invented by the reformers.

Dr. William Webster is pastor of Grace Bible Church of Battleground, Washington and founder

of Christian Resources and Rev. David T. King is an ordained minister having

served in the Presbyterian Church in America denomination, otherwise known as the PCA, and the Orthodox

Presbyterian Church, otherwise known as the OPC, and he is the co -author with Dr. William Webster of the three

-volume monumental, massive work, Holy Scripture, the Ground and Pillar

of Our Faith, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome back Dr. William Webster and Rev. David

T. King back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thank you, Chris.

It's great to have you both on the program and our email address for anybody listening who wants to ask a

question, it's chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z

-e -n at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and I

would especially love to hear from Roman Catholics today, although we will accept

questions from Protestants, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Atheists, Agnostics, Sweden,

Borginists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and anything that you happen to be, we would love to hear from you

at chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, with a

question for our guests today.

First of all, let's just do some summary of what we covered the

last time you were on for part one of this discussion.

If you could, David T. King, why don't you just define Sola Scriptura for us?

Yes, well, Sola

Scriptura does not mean

that...

For

the

adjudication...

And that word infallible or inerrant is a key phrase, or are key phrases

or words, because we do believe that there are authorities in the church

that are beneath the authority of the scriptures and of Christ himself, of course.

We believe that in order for churches to function biblically, they have to have elders,

overseers, those who have authority over the church, those who the church, the members of the congregation,

are to submit to.

And we do also have confessions of faith, which are just summaries of what we believe

to be biblical truth.

So there are rules of faith, there are authorities that we believe exist, but they

are not infallible or inerrant, and they can never be put on the same par or

override the authority.

Of the scriptures, right?

Exactly.

For instance, the Westminster

Scripture alone occupies the

authority

that the

church has

is likewise normed.

You go, for example, to the Hebrews chapter, it

doesn't

mean that

there

is...

Sola Scriptura does not mean it is the sole authority.

And Dr. William Webster, you know that many Roman Catholics.

Slander those that believe in Sola Scriptura and adhere by that

watchword of the Reformation by saying that we believe that individuals may interpret the

scripture any way they choose to, and obviously that's an absurdity.

You would have to be in a real liberal leftist apostate church in

order to come up with a conclusion that that was what Sola Scriptura meant.

And it's ironic how Roman Catholics will make a claim like that and then be upset when we

say that if you are a Roman Catholic faithful to the

gospel of the Council of Trent, you're damned.

So therefore, we obviously don't believe you could twist the Bible in any way you choose if we're saying that there are people who are

damned who profess to be Christian.

Well, you've entered into this second major issue in

that we

need...

I need to know about Christian life.

The

that

to

and

the

The

there

it

infallible

interpretation

of

The scripture itself is an authority equal to the one divinely revealed.

There is the Roman Catholic principle of unanimous consent on the most important...

Now, could you provide for us, both of you in fact, some citations from the

patristic evidence which would defend the idea that Sola Scriptura

existed before the Reformers used it as a watchword

among the Church Fathers?

If you could provide us some citations.

And keep in mind, for those of you who are immediately before you even hear these

citations, are you going to cry foul and say, these are being taken out of

context, which is the immediate response to any time a Protestant will

quote from the patristics to reveal that in a

certain area these specific Church Fathers believed in something once thought to

be uniquely Protestant.

It happens time and time again, oh you're taking it out of context.

Well, if you get a hold of this three -volume set that I mentioned in the beginning of the

program, Holy Scripture, the Ground and Pillar of our Faith, the

three -volume, I believe it's over 900 pages of data, including

many patristic quotes that are taken fully in context, one of the reasons why the

book is so long and contained in three volumes, you could go there to see that these

citations are not cut and paste out of the context, they are

fully within an understandable context.

But if you could, Dr. Webster and then Reverend King, if you could follow up with

some citations.

Well, I'll just give you a Church Father

and some that you can, that I do not admit,

will you advance.

Basil of Caesarea

said every word and deed should be ratified by the testament.

Gregory of Nyssa, and these are four citations, he said that whatever is not

supported by the testament,

Karina is considered

an eminent theologian in her own right.

She said we are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we,

every tenet or dogma, we necessarily,

which may be made to harmonize with the intention, holy

mysteries of the faith, not even a

catch, in this

salvation which we believe, it depends not on

ingenious reasonings, but of the demonstration

learned from

the

Holy

Spirit,

what is

in conformity,

do

not, cannot be known.

David, T. King, do you have

any follow -up citations?

Well, I'm just thinking of one of the first ones, and

he's

commenting on the

phrase that the man of God may be perfect or complete.

The psalm says that you're given, that the man of God may be

rendered perfect by it, and without this, therefore, he cannot be perfect.

He says you have the scriptures in place of me.

If you would learn anything, and remember, he's writing to Timothy, he's writing to

not a fellow apostle, but surely one who was an apostolic man, he's writing to

Timothy, and if there was ever a time when he would encourage Timothy

to look to oral tradition for his authority, surely he would have said, so here,

this is apparently what we believe to be Paul's last epistle, and perhaps the last

thing he ever penned from his hand.

And he tells Timothy, he says you have the scriptures in place of me.

If you would learn anything, you may learn it from them.

And then John Chrysostom goes on to say, if he wrote thus to Timothy, who was filled

with the spirit, how much more to us.

You find over and over again, when you explore

the material sufficiency of scripture, they affirm that

script be the

authority, and in other places, they also

affirm the.

Can you define both of those, the material and formal?

Well, Bill's already referred to material, and the material sufficiency means that everything

necessary for what were the belief concerning God, what were the belief for

salvation, what were the belief for material

sufficiency means all of those things are found in one place or another in

Holy Scripture.

That scripture has the material necessary to communicate those

truths.

Formal,

purposcuity or clarity, that the scriptures are essentially clear

in the necessary, Chrysostom has said, all the

necessary things are clear.

He stated that explicitly, all the necessary

things.

And it is mind boggling when you have.

Very learned men, brilliant men who are Roman Catholics, some of whom do not

appear in their ordinary practice of life in their

communication of what they believe they don't appear to be intentionally deceiving

people.

And at the same time, you have these Catholics over and over and over again,

saying that the Catholic Church today would be in harmony with the unanimous

consent of the fathers.

And yet, from what I've understood from reading from not only

Holy Scripture, Ground and Pillar of our Faith, the three volume set that you both have written, but also Bill's

works published by the Banner of Truth and what I've read by Dr. James R. White and other

Protestant apologists about the Church of Rome, that there are many, many things, if

not every one of the uniquely Roman

teachings that are considered to be dogma of the Church especially,

that these are totally absent from the reams of

written history that we have from the patristic error, that these things are not among

those things that were the unanimous consent of the fathers.

Is this right, Dr. William Webster, that you could search high and low through the patristic

evidence and the things such as the papacy, the existence of a papacy,

the fact that only the magisterium can

accurately interpret the Scripture and define teachings from

the Scripture, and things like the adoration of the elements of the Eucharist, in fact,

the perpetuatory sacrifice of the Mass itself, and purgatory,

and the sacrament of penance, and you could go on and on, the veneration of the saints, the

sinlessness of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, I mean, can't you go on and on and on

with the things that are considered the primary things taught by Rome and you cannot find them anywhere in the.

Writings of the Church Fathers?

Well, you have to, I think you need to make a distinction of

dogmas and then those that are secondary in nature that are not necessary for salvation.

Whatever the Roman Catholic Church defines as

dogma, and

especially Vatican I makes it,

it is necessary

that one embrace fully saving faith, and

saving faith can only be defined by the Church, and your salvation then

is directly related

to

that is the one true Church, to not be in communion with the

Roman Catholic Church and fully embracing all the

dogmas that are taught by the Roman Catholic Church.

But when you look at these dogmas, and I mentioned last week the assumption of Mary,

that was you find complete

silence in some kind

of the death of

Mary.

I tell you, no one, the actual teaching,

even Roman Catholic, two

bishops of Rome came later into

the Church through the

Gnostic origin of these writings,

and it just made its way over time

into the Church, and it's been elevated now to a place,

it is part of what the Romans,

through the rule of faith that were never

taught in the early Church, the assumption being

the teaching of papalism until

the 18th

century, very late

development, and

indulgences, you find none of that in the early Church.

There are all these contradictions when

you begin to examine the claims

that are being

full

of unanimous, in any way

contrary to when

you

examine

Peter's

conformity

with the

way,

these

will

not

prevail

against the faith that you have given.

Augustine said Christ did not build his church to

enunciate,

and you find this,

some

of it is very late in the history

of the fundamental teaching.

Now, Reverend King, if one were to even,

just for the sake of giving the benefit of the doubt, even though the three of us would

disagree with the conclusion that Matthew 16 is

declaring infallibly that Peter is the rock of which

Christ spoke, and therefore Peter is the Pope,

even if you were to give the benefit of the doubt to the Catholics that Peter is the rock, I mean, as much as I

admire Dr. D .A. Carson, I understand that he believes that Peter

is the rock being spoken of by Jesus, but Dr. Carson, not being Catholic,

does not believe in this succession of bishops that come out of that

text that is actually very crucial to the whole concept of the papacy, according to

Rome.

There is nothing that could be exegeted from that passage at all that would even give you an

inclination of a succession of bishops, correct?

No, there's no indication,

and

there was nothing

sure that

Peter ever made it.

He did, indicating that he did.

I believe that

there's

good, there's nothing about

those of a papacy is going to be established.

After all, Peter ministered in Antioch before he ever went to Rome,

and you don't

see any paper in Antioch when Peter

sat down to grieve.

He

mentions a great many people whose

names, but he never mentions

Peter.

He never mentions Peter.

We have to go to our...

There are contradictory traditions respecting that.

I would like to say also about the dogma of the perpetual

virginity of Mary.

Could you pick up on that when we return from our first break?

Sure.

Just make a note that we're going to pick it up on the perpetual virginity of Mary.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. William Webster or Rev. David T.

King on the issue that we are discussing today, the lie of Rome

that the reformers invented, Sola Scriptura, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C

-H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only

remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing, we will be right back with more of Dr. William Webster and David T. King

after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back.

This.

Is Chris Arns, and if you just tuned us in, our guests today for the full two hours, with 90 minutes to go or so,

are Dr. William Webster and Rev. David T. King, the co -authors of Holy

Scripture, the Ground and Pillar of Our Faith, a massive, groundbreaking, monumental three

-volume set containing over 900 pages of documentation.

And we are discussing part two of a discussion we began last Wednesday on December 12th,

The Lie of Rome that Sola Scriptura was invented by the Reformers.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail

.com.

And before I forget, I just wanted to plug one of William Webster's books that

was directly written specifically on what we were just talking about before the break, which

was the claim of Rome that

Peter is the rock that Jesus was referring to in Matthew 16.

And that meant and means, in the mind of the Church of Rome, that Peter was the first pope.

And that text also, in their mind, the mind of Rome,

includes a succession of infallible bishops that lead up till the present day known as

popes.

And Dr. Webster's book is called The Matthew 16 Controversy, Peter and the Rock.

That's the title, correct?

Yes.

And then before the break, David T. King wanted to say something about the perpetual

virginity of Mary or, should I say, the claim of Rome that Mary was perpetually a virgin even

after the birth of Jesus.

Yes, I just wanted

to comment on

addressing the verse that we,

or he, that is, Joseph, she gave

birth to, and Basil comments on that.

He said that this could make one suppose that Mary, after,

you know, the intervening work of

the Holy Spirit, that after that she did

not refrain from normal conjugal relations.

And he's commenting on that, and of course, now Basil understands, he does believe in the

perpetual virginity of Mary, but then he goes on to deny that

belief in perpetual virginity of Mary would be anything akin to a dogma

of the Church, a dogma being something of salvation.

And Basil says, um, whether or not she read

the teaching of our religion at all.

So he's implicitly denying that it's dogma.

He says because Mary's virginity was necessary until the service of the

Incarnation.

So Basil is holding to the virginal conception and birth of the Lord

Jesus Christ, but he says what happened afterward need not be investigated in order

to affect the doctrine of the mystery.

So, you know, here we have an early Church father from the East

who's explicitly denying that it's

necessary to believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary for salvation.

He says it's not necessary for our religion.

And then just one comment I wanted to make upon, or something that

Epiphanius said, he tells us that no one

knows her end.

No one knows whether, you know, he says

no one knows her end.

And surely here are men who are locked close to

these truths and yet they're denying that these things are necessary.

Now, Dr. William Webster, we keep hearing from the both of you.

About dogmas of Rome are things that are necessary to be

believed for our salvation.

Your modern Roman Catholic, especially one that was born and raised after Vatican II,

may be sitting there listening to you saying, what on earth are these guys talking about?

I mean, Pope Francis believes atheists can go to heaven.

In fact, the modern day catechism of the Catholic Church believes that

not only Protestants are going to heaven, but Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus can go to heaven.

So why on earth are these two Protestants making the claim that Catholics have dogmas

that must be believed for one to be saved?

They are, I'm sure, totally baffled by these claims you're making.

Yeah, I did start the question off with Dr. Webster.

I'm sorry.

I'm trying to go back and forth between the two of you.

So I'm trying to give both of you equal.

Credit.

No, no,

no, I got it.

Okay.

Sorry about that.

Now, it is full of

truth and it has

promulgated many anathemas against those who would in any way

call these

the church of

what it means to be how you deal

with sin.

They give a teaching

and

then a listening, saving

truth that has been given by God.

And there

are promulgated by bishops of

Rome that are

dogma when they define dogma.

And they say

it's embraced and saving.

And in the

experience of this,

this is not something we're making up.

This is

even

though

it's a

dogma,

it's considered

in any

way to

negate.

So all of these things that we hear declared by Pope

Francis and even John Paul II and perhaps even

in between when Cardinal Ratzinger became the Pope, although I

believe he may have been more orthodox in the sense

that he was more in allegiance to Vatican I than the other two that surrounded him.

These things that we keep hearing, that we have most of us listening to the

show or who are participating in it, our whole lives have been

spent knowing that the church of Rome had open arms to those in religions

outside their own.

I mean, I have older brothers who were taught by the nuns that it was a mortal

sin to even walk through the door of a Protestant church, but obviously those days have long gone by.

But when we hear these things, when we read the modern day Roman Catholic catechism

that teaches that the Muslims and Roman Catholics together

adore the one same true God, are we to say, well,

these are just novel ideas that have become popular and even if a Pope

says or writes things like this, unless he is declaring these things ex cathedra, he

is basically just saying or writing or teaching something that is, whether he is going to admit it or not,

or whether Roman Catholics recognize it or not, it is an utter defiance to the actual

dogmatic proclamations of Rome that must be believed.

Am I explaining this correctly?

That is true.

I mean, a bishop.

Doesn't

mean he is taught,

but where you do

have ex cathedra, and that

has been clearly revealed throughout the history of

Roman Catholicism,

it would be anathema to

as an atheist,

following your conscience, that somehow the light of God is going to reach you and that he will be

contrary, and this is

where the proof is revealed as

being, and it tells us very clearly in

the life, no man, that eliminates every other way.

The apostle Peter said, under heaven, given among men by which

we must be, and the

call of the church, a message of

truth comes

against,

stand in the truth of that gospel and proclaim

it to men and be faithful to that message.

So, if I could,.

If I could just follow up on,

they do not worship

the

whole.

Become man, it

is not of God.

Right, in fact, years ago on the old Iron Sharpens Iron radio program out of Long Island, I

had my friend David Wood debating a Psalm Zawadi, a Muslim

apologist, right there in the studio together, and I read from the Catholic Catechism

a citation about Muslims adoring the one true God along with

the Roman Catholics, and I said, do you worship the same God as Roman Catholics, or for that matter,

anyone who professes to be a Christian, are you worshipping the same God as Christians

are, and he chuckled and said, absolutely not.

So, I mean, this is a figment of Rome's imagination, modern day Rome's imagination,

and I have a hard time believing

that all of these modern Roman Catholics going back to the mid -20th century

would survive a tribunal of the

Church of Rome during the days of the Council of Trent, or even perhaps much

later in history, that they would survive a tribunal having

been tried and so on for these beliefs that even the Pope today declares,

that they would not have been executed for believing these things.

I mean, these things would have been viewed as absolutely abhorrent

by those gathered at the Council of.

Trent, wouldn't they?

Yeah, yes, the members of the Council of Trent,

as they

did with

so many others, would have pronounced them...

All right, we have to go to our midway break right now.

It's a.

Longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer

break so that they can localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, by airing their own public service

announcements and commercials.

So, please use this time wisely by writing down questions for our guests, Dr. William Webster and Reverend David T.

King, about our theme, The Lie of Rome, that Sola Scriptura was invented by the Reformers.

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Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor, small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called

Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do?

Could I just say, God bless you and walk away?

The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need.

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

So if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel,

Mississippi 39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi

39443, or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

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Hello, my name is James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

The Word of God says, If a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry?

Twenty years ago, the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born.

For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist

churches.

It has been a wonderful partnership.

Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary, offering a full program of courses, leading to

the Master of Divinity degree.

This is IRBS Theological Seminary.

We believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ

is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the Church is to

honor and serve the Triune God in all things.

IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to

these doctrines.

Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ and his Church as a pastor?

Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?

You'll find more information at irbsseminary .org.

That's irbsseminary .org, two S's in the middle.

I hope to hear from you soon.

God bless you.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them

affordable to everyone.

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and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because, frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is cvbbs .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you, the Church, and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

That's cvbbs .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

And you can call cvbbs .com at their toll -free number, 800 -656 -0231.

800 -656 -0231, Monday through Friday between 10 a .m. Eastern

and 4 .30 p .m. Eastern Time.

Please mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio and you'll receive free

shipping on all orders of $50 or more.

Also, I have a few announcements to make about upcoming events that I hope that you will attend

during the next number of weeks that await us.

We have, first of all, coming up very, very soon, my Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio free

luncheon for men in ministry leadership.

That's going to be held Thursday, January 3rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall

in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

My guest speaker is Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

And he is going to be speaking on the meaninglessness of life and the destruction of Western society without God.

This is an event sponsored by Battery Depot .com, Linbrookbaptist .org, and NASBible

.com, publishers of the New American Standard Bible.

And if you are a man in ministry leadership, whether you are a pastor, elder, deacon, or leader in a parachurch

organization, this is free to you.

Your lunch is free.

The message that you will hear from Dr. Tony Costa is free.

And you're also going to be getting free books donated by many Christian publishers in the United States and the United Kingdom.

You'll probably be leaving with two heavy sacks each of books that I have personally selected from these

publishers.

And nothing is for sale at the Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio pastor's luncheon.

Nothing is being hidden as far as some kind of ulterior motive or

a hidden agenda to try to sell you something.

This is all just to give men in the ministry a restful and relaxing

time, a fun fellowship, edification from a powerful word from our guest speaker,

free food, free gifts.

And this was at the insistence of my late wife, Julie, who began these luncheons in

the 1990s.

And she did not want there to be any ulterior motives in regard to selling anything

or signing somebody up for Amway or something.

This is all just a free event with nothing but the best of motives so that pastors can enjoy themselves for one day.

And if you'd like to come to the pastor's luncheon, just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put luncheon in the subject line.

Then immediately after that, from Friday the 4th of January through Sunday the 6th of January, Dr. Tony

Costa, who will still be in this area in Pennsylvania after the luncheon, he is going to be

speaking at a free Bible conference at the first, or should I say the Enola First Church of God

in Enola, Pennsylvania.

Dr. Costa's theme is Contending for the Faith, the Church in a Postmodern World.

The thing that separates the conference from my luncheon is that everyone is welcome

to the conference, whether you are a man, woman, or child, whether you are in leadership or not, whether you are Christian or not, you

could be an atheist.

We look forward to, in fact, many, hopefully many non -believers coming to the conference.

We would like to see the place filled with non -believers.

Well, if you would like to attend this three -day conference at the Enola First Church of God, you

could call them

at 717 -732 -4253, 717 -732 -4253, or you could go to their website, enolacog .com,

e -n -o -l -a -c -o -g .com, forward slash Bible -conference,

that's enolacog .com, forward slash Bible -conference.

Then after that, the long -awaited G3

conference is going to be held January 17th through the 19th, that's Thursday through Saturday,

January 17th through the 19th at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park,

Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.

They are going to be, once again, having an enormous lineup of phenomenal speakers,

including Dr. James R. White, John Piper, Stephen J. Lawson, Voddie Baucom, Mark Dever,

Conrad M. Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, Todd Friel,

Stephen J. Nichols of the Reformation Bible College, the president of the Reformation Bible College,

founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that lineup.

The theme is going to be the true missions,

that is, the biblical understanding of missions.

And if you would like to attend, along with me, I will be manning for the third year in a row an Iron Trip and Desire and Exhibitors

booth.

Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

I would strongly urge you, if you have a business, a parachurch ministry, a church, or a special

event that you want to promote there, I would strongly urge you to register for an Exhibitors booth

while there's still room because they're expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people there.

So go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

Last but not least, the Deep South Founders Conference

is going to be held January 24th through the 26th in Laurel, Mississippi at the

Bethlehem Baptist Church.

I will be, for the very first time, manning an Exhibitors booth there, God willing.

This will be my first time ever in Mississippi at all, and the theme is going to be

sanctification.

And the speakers include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason

Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, Conrad M. Bayway, who is the keynote speaker, my favorite pastor

or preacher alive on the planet Earth, Dr. Conrad M. Bayway, a pastor of Coboata Baptist

Church, Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and Chancellor of the African Christian University.

If you would like to attend the Deep South Founders Conference, January 24th through the 26th, go to deepsouthfounders

.com, deepsouthfounders .com.

And by the way, I don't know if you heard Dr. Kerry Kimbrough's ad,

Reverend David T. King, but the accent

that our brother Dr. Kerry Kimbrough had, pastor of the Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel,

Mississippi, his southern accent is so thick, you sound like a Yankee.

In comparison.

Oh no. By the Lord

forbid, bite your tongue.

Last but not least, if you folks want Iron Trip and Zion Radio to remain on the air, you don't want us to disappear,

please go to irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

And please donate as much as you can and as frequently as you can.

We are in urgent need of your finances.

We are heading into some scary waters financially, so please go to

irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You could also send in a

check via snail mail, the old -fashioned way, to the address that will appear on your screen if you

click support at irontripandzionradio .com.

Please never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member, in order to give to Iron Trip and

Zion Radio.

Never siphon money away from important bills that your family needs to pay.

Don't put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands of God,

supporting church and home, then please consider supporting Iron Trip and Zion Radio

financially.

We certainly do need your support more than ever before, and if you want us to

stick around a while, just go to irontripandzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

If you want to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put advertising in the

subject line.

We certainly could use your advertising dollars.

And that's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guests Dr. William Webster

and Reverend David T. King.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA,

and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

I'm going to go to a couple of listener questions, and then I have one on my

own about the claim by some Roman Catholic apologists that Sola

Scriptura is a blueprint for anarchy.

But before I have you address that, we have Cody.

Cody lives in Albany, Oregon, and his question

is,.

And thus Holy Scripture instructs us, saying, Prayer is good with fasting

and almsgiving.

And that's from an apocryphal book, Tobit chapter 20 verse 8.

And for he who will give us in the day of judgment a reward for our

labors and alms, is even in this life a merciful hearer

of one who comes to him in prayer associated with good works.

Thus, for instance, Cornelius the centurion, when he prayed, had a

claim to be heard, for he was in the habit of doing many alms deeds

towards the people, and of ever praying to God.

To this man, when he prayed about the ninth hour, appeared an angel hearing

testimony to his labors, and saying, Cornelius, your prayers and your

alms are gone up in remembrance before God.

Those prayers quickly ascend to God, which the merits of our labors

urge upon God.

Thus also Raphael the angel was a witness to the constant prayer and the

constant good works of Tobias, saying,

It is honorable to reveal and confess the works of God.

For when you didst pray, and Sarah, I did bring the remembrance of your prayers

before the holiness of God.

And when you didst bury the dead in simplicity, and because you did not

delay to rise up and to leave your dinner, you didst go out and cover the

dead.

I was sent to prove you, and again God sent me to heal you, and Sarah your daughter -in -law.

For I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which stand up and go in and

out before the glory of God.

And that's Tobit chapter 12 verses 12 through 15,

Cyprian AD 250, Ante 9c in Fathers volume

5 pages 456.

Now I'm looking for where his, does he say have any question in regard to this is what

I want to know.

I don't see any question regarding this.

Well, the basic question is obvious that he is quoting from the

apocryphal books or what the Roman Catholics call the Deuterocanonical books.

And they will say, the Roman Catholics as you know, they will say that the

reformers removed these books from the canon of scripture.

But that isn't the case at all, is it?

Let's start.

With Dr. William Webster.

It is a development of the canon.

You find many of the church fathers rejected the

apocryphal writings,

Athanasius for example,

Old and

New

Testament,

Encyclopedia,

primary inspired canonical work.

And then you have these apocryphal works.

A secondary sense can be viewed as being part of the

canon.

In fact, I think that

you may be

answering,.

I finally found Cody's question.

I think you may be answering it.

He said he wanted your comments on the belief of the early church fathers in regards to the apocryphal

before the time of Jerome.

I have found quotes that seem to support that they saw them as scripture.

And I will include one of them.

And I'm assuming that he is referring to Cyprian,

Antionicene father,.

Because he

quotes

Cyprian after the book

of Tobit.

You do have fathers.

You go on and on.

There's

a time in Palestine when

he rejected the

apocryphal,

relegated

to that

Augustine.

And after

Jerome, and going all the way up through the

church held training of

theologians throughout,

and

all

the preface

that these books

are not received as

the great

opponent

of 393 and 397,

that they viewed the apocryphal in

a way that

is

on the

very end of the

New Catholic Encyclopedia.

You find very

eminent what an effective

that you are to restore.

They followed

Jerome

to find making.

Well,

thank

you, Cody.

And

you

have

won a

free copy of.

William Webster's book, Salvation, the Bible and Roman Catholicism, compliments of our friends at the

United States headquarters of the Banner of Truth right around the corner from where I'm sitting right now.

So please make sure you give us your full mailing address there in Oregon, so that CVBBS .com

can mail you out the copy of Salvation, the Bible and Roman Catholicism by Dr. William

Webster.

So therefore, from what you just said, it's clear

that the Protestants didn't remove the apocryphal from the canon.

The Church of Rome is the one that dogmatically inserted them in the canon, even though that there was

healthy debate for centuries prior to the Council of Trent about whether the

apocryphal books or the deuterocanonical books were canonical.

And there was much opposition to them, even from Jerome being included in the canon.

So it was really obviously a matter of fact of history.

That the Church of Rome is the one that added them.

If I may, Chris, from what Bill just said, I think it would be very

clear that the apocryphal as scripture does not represent the

Catholicity of the early church,

the

communion of Rome, the

belief in the apocryphal of the early

church.

And by the way, folks, Dr. William Webster has a separate volume specifically on this issue called

The Old Testament Canon and the Apocrypha.

So if you want to find out more information on that, you could go to the Christian Resources

website.

And that website is christiantruth .com.

One thing that may, on the surface, lend credibility to the

Church of Rome's claim of the canonicity of the apocryphal or deuterocanonical books

is that the only copies that we have, to my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only

copies that we have of the Septuagint that was the Greek

Old Testament or the Old Testament in Greek that even Jesus Christ used, I'm not saying that he used the very copies that we

have today, I'm just saying that he used, obviously, the Septuagint when he walked the earth.

Now, the ones that we have today.

Include the Apocrypha.

Am I right on that?

Septuagint version?

Yeah, I have heard, even from those that vociferously oppose the

canonicity of the Apocrypha, they will say that, I believe even

Dr. James R. White, our mutual friend, will say that the copies that we have in existence today of the Septuagint

include the Apocrypha, and I was just wondering how either of you would explain that.

By the way, Dr. Webster, your voice is kind of muffled, I don't know if your voice...

There you go.

Sorry about that.

That's okay.

And if you could continue?

You have a theory of the Hebrew Old Testament,

which was done,

originated in Alexandria, and

there is this

view

comprised of the...

And then you

have the

fact of the matter is, we

don't...

Because the only Septuagint...

And they do

contain the Apocrypha, but the Church,

the time of Christ, during the

Church Age.

So what that original Septuagint looked like, we have no way of knowing other than to say

it was in

Alexandria,

and he never reversed...

did not... came later,

grouped together

the writings, and there was no way to distinguish...

Right, and that's a very powerful bit of evidence that smothers everything else,

because the Jews throughout history have been meticulous and painstakingly accurate in

their passing down of what the Hebrew Scriptures were, what the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures were and

are to this day.

Do you find Josephus affirming the fact that the Jewish canon and, you know,

this is first...

Melito Asartic, the Church Father in the early 2nd

century...

All right, we're going to go to our final break.

It's going to be much more brief than the last break, and I want you to lead off when we come back by answering the

charge against Protestants by Catholics that Sola

Scriptura is a blueprint for anarchy, that if you believe that the Bible

is the sole, infallible, inerrant authority over the Church, that that leads to

chaos, it leads to all kinds of heresies

erupting, all kinds of sects springing out of nowhere.

It is the fertile ground of the cults.

I remember hearing Marcus Grodi once during the Journey Home, the Roman Catholic program that is

dedicated to hearing the testimonies, primarily of former Protestants, but there were also people of other religions who

became Catholic that they interview, and he said that Sola Scriptura was responsible

for the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons, and I couldn't help but laugh because neither of those

groups really practice Sola Scriptura in any real fashion.

The Jehovah's Witnesses rely upon the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which is more like their Vatican,

and the Mormons have other books that they even believe are superior translations to the Bible

that they follow.

So it's a ridiculous assertion made by Marcus Grodi, but if you could answer that

charge when we come back, and anybody else wants to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address

is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages with Dr. William Webster and.

Reverend David T. King.

Gotta tell you, for my money, Chris Arnson's radio program is just the best.

Iron.

Criticizing.

Iron.

I think that's what it's called.

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson, of Grace to You, inviting

everybody to come to the G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the

country.

And it is.

It's a great conference.

I love it.

And Chris Arnson was there last year.

He's been there, I think, every year.

It's great to see him there.

You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight.

Tons of stuff going on.

Tons of great speakers.

And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnson's laugh.

And that's worth the price of admission alone.

If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers.

So it should be a cavalcade of great preachers and me.

G3conference .com.

G3conference .com.

Tired of.

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Of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

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And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

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Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's wrbc .us.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

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Transcribed by https://otter .ai.

Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Call Lynbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit lynbrookbaptist .org.

That's lynbrookbaptist .org.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York, by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor, small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do?

Could I just say God bless you and walk away?

The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need.

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

So if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel,

Mississippi, 39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi,

39443, or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you.

Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.

Even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent, biblically faithful teachers on their lineup,

sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.

If you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace, you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to

firstloveradio .org.

They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological

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Firstloveradio .org also live streams my Iron Trepans Iron Radio program daily.

Please stick around on firstloveradio .org after Iron Trepans Iron Radio is over to continue

being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.

Spread the word about firstloveradio .org.

Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzin, and before I return to our discussion with Dr. William Webster

and Rev. David T. King, I just want to remind you, please do as much as your Christmas shopping as

possible while there's still time from solid -ground -books .com.

The founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, Mike Adosh, as many of you know, experienced very serious open heart surgery not long

ago, and was laid up in the hospital and laid up recovering, which set them back financially quite a

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So please help replenish that which was lost, because the more you help Solid Ground Christian Books remain

in existence, the more you help us remain in existence, because they are a valuable sponsor of ours.

Also, it's not too late to get gifts for your family, friends, and loved ones from

cvbbs .com, because you can purchase gift certificates from them that are

electronic, so they will receive them instantly once you purchase them.

So you can order those right up through Christmas Eve and have them in time for Christmas at cvbbs

.com.

And keep in mind, you can also order Solid Ground Christian Books

titles from cvbbs .com, because cvbbs .com is a distributor, not a publisher.

So therefore, you can make a list of books that you want from Solid Ground Christian Books at solid -ground -books .com,

and then you can go to cvbbs .com with that list and order those books from cvbbs .com.

And that will also help you to achieve the $50 mark faster in order to get free shipping.

Anyway, just thought I'd let you know that.

And now we are back with our final segment of today's show with Dr. William Webster

and Rev. David T. King, co -authors of Holy Scripture, the Ground and Pillar of Our Faith.

This is part two of a discussion we began last week on the 12th of December on the lie of

Rome that Sola Scriptura was invented by reformers.

And I know that both of you have heard the claim, it might have been

Scott Hahn that coined the phrase, I'm not sure, but that Sola Scriptura is a

blueprint for anarchy, that we need their infallible magisterium

to accurately exegete the Bible, to know what the Bible is really teaching us, because

without their infallible magisterium we are utterly hopeless and we will be in chaos.

Now the thing that is quite ironic about that claim, and I think that you would both agree, and we'll start with you Dr. Webster,

isn't it true that there are many divisions under the umbrella of Roman Catholicism that perhaps

even exceed those divisions that exist amongst conservative Bible -believing Christians?

And I make that categorization for a reason, of conservative Bible

-believing Christians, because even we would not consider liberal apostate

denominations as truly Protestant.

We have a totally different view of the Scriptures than those liberal mainline churches do, so it's not fair to

include them in our ranks.

But if you're just talking about conservative Bible -believing Protestants, as much as we disagree

on them, we disagree on a lot of things, I think that the Church of Rome exceeds us in their differences.

I mean, they have no real basis to make that claim that they have safety in a.

Magisterium where we have chaos in Sola Scriptura, do

they?

Well the magisterium changes.

Why, you know, this claim to be infallible, we've already brought

up the fact that they contradict the interpretation, contradict

the unanimous

consent of the Fathers.

A bishop of Rome was condemned as a

heretic.

What they do in

1950, they elevate this doctrine of the Assumption to be a dogma.

What am I to follow here?

If I embrace a magisterium that is

infallible, I'm going to embrace error.

I don't know what they're

going to teach, and

that now they have the Spirit of God, so

it doesn't matter what is taught.

And therefore, do they have

now completely repudiated any notion of

history?

No, this is what is

divine.

Church, where have they

been for centuries?

Otherwise you'll have anarchy.

Our violence

stated, and I think as we

have

proven, the

universal belief was a

universal belief

that

you have

respect to

that.

Nobody on how you interpret,

and this

is exactly what the early church said.

You come back to NDA

from that principle.

And Rev.

David T.

King,.

One of the other absurd reasons to say that without their magisterium, there is chaos, that they

have the key to peace and harmony in Rome because of their magisterium.

One of the reasons that's absurd is, isn't it true that there have hardly ever in history

been ex cathedra declarations made?

That's the first thing.

And number two is, has Rome ever really defined.

Dogmatically any verse of the Bible?

We hear that Rome hasn't, but I would like to push this whole thing

all the way, let's examine it in light of the ancient church.

First of all, if you read Basil of Caesarea, his preface on the judgment of God, you

read, I'm laughing because it's funny because Basil talks about all of the

disagreements and all of the divisions within the church of his day.

And he said that the reason for those divisions, if you read his preface to the judgment of God, is

because people are not following the head of the church whom he says Jesus Christ.

And in that preface, he says that Jesus Christ is the only head of

the church.

And he talks about these problems that proceed from lack of belief and

embracing that reality.

He knows nothing of, for instance,

in 1896, Leo XIII, he said that

one must be in communion with the Bishop of Rome.

Well, if you push that back into the early church, you've got serious problems.

You've got someone like Jerome who came into the area of Antioch, and

he sees that Antioch, this church of Antioch, has three rival bishops.

And he rejects all three of them.

He says, I know nothing of Vitalis.

I reject Miletus.

I have nothing to do with Paulinus.

He that gathers not with you, talking to the Bishop of Rome, he says, he is not of Christ, he is

of Antichrist.

Now, the funny thing about that is this.

You take Chrysostom.

Who was his bishop in Antioch?

Well, it wasn't Vitalis, who was probably an Arian, and Paulinus, who was probably

considered somewhat orthodox, but it was Damasus in Rome who supported

Paulinus as the rightful bishop.

Chrysostom baptized at the hand of Miletus.

He was ordained as a deacon by Miletus.

Miletus was the one who presided over the third ecumenical council

until he died suddenly in the midst of that council, and then after Miletus

was Philabian, who ordained Chrysostom as a presbyter.

By the standards of saltus cognitum, Chrysostom was not in

communion with a Roman pontiff for most of his ministry.

So when you apply that to the early church, it's just comical, because there was so much

division going on in the early church, that's such a paradigm to try to place it

on people today.

And the other thing is that what they mean by that is there must be uniformity.

You must be in uniform, you must have the same beliefs as Rome.

We as Protestants believe that there can be unity in diversity.

We don't have to be members of the precise same ecclesiastical

framework.

We can be Baptists, we can be Presbyterians, and yet have intimate

communion to put you

outside the edifice of the church if you're not in communion with their bishops.

So this blueprint for anarchy is really one of the most

hypocritical arguments I've ever known to be raised against sola scriptura.

We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, who says,

why would scholars like Charles Colson and

J .I. Packer sign a document like Evangelicals and Catholics together?

It's oblivious, or should I say it's obvious, I think that's what he meant to write, it's obvious

we're still fighting the Reformation.

Yeah, obviously only those two men can answer that question, and one of them is in heaven,

Charles Colson, who has departed this earth some time ago.

But this is a problematic thing when you have well -known and beloved

Evangelical Protestants, especially J .I. Packer, a hero of Reformed theology, who would dare sign

a document like that.

I don't have any explanation.

Do you.

Have any comment on that?

Well, I do remember one of the Evangelical Association friends,

he stood up and he rebuked J .I. Packer to make

ties to Rome like that.

And John MacArthur and.

R .C. Sproul and the late D. James Kennedy, the late R .C. Sproul

and the late D. James Kennedy, years ago, I believe it was in the early 90s, or it was soon after the ECT

document was forged, I can't remember when that was exactly.

But those three men were on the John Ankerberg show to vociferously oppose the document, and they

had a loving rebuke of Dr. Packer for his involvement.

But anyway, do you have any further comments?

Because we're running out of.

Time.

Yeah, well, Packer does not speak for, as much as we're respecting, he's not our Pope, he does

not speak for all of Protestantism.

Any final words, Dr. Webster?

Oh, I would just say you come back to Sonos to evaluate everything.

And by the way, one of the most amazing things I learned

today was that the men's hair product, very popular in the 1970s,

Vitalis, was named after a Pope.

I never knew that.

You're using dry control by Vitalis.

You can't see it, but you know it's there for natural, for supernatural.

Hair.

But anyway, he was one of the rival bishops at Antioch, Chris.

Oh, okay.

But I want to thank.

Both of you for being on the show, and I would love for this to be a monthly visit from the two of you.

I hope that you could do that, or at least a lot more than you have been doing it.

I am eager for your return.

I'm going to send you a calendar of dates that we have available, because I want you both to come back.

I think you work well, excellently together, in addition to separately, but together as a team, you're phenomenal.

And I want to remind our listeners that for more information on the three -volume set that we have

been discussing, Holy Scripture, Ground and Pillar of our Faith, you could go to Christian Resources' website, which is

christiantruth .com, christiantruth .com.

And I want to thank again our friends at the Banner of Truth, who supplied some

books that we were giving away during Part 1 and Part 2 of today's discussion.

Go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org.

And you can always go to cvbbs .com, our sponsor, cvbbs .com, to get any book

discussed on Iron Trepper and Zion Radio.

Thank you, brothers.

I want to thank our listeners, especially those who took the time to write in questions, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives

that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.