WWUTT 2225 Q&A Christian Books, Date of Revelation, J.D. Greear's Non-Apology

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After the Bible, what are some must -read books for any Christian? Are there any biblically sound branches of the

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Anglican Church? When did John write the book of Revelation and does it matter? The answers to these questions and others when we

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Understand the Text. This is when we

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Understand the Text, serving up daily Bible lessons in God's Word, that it may be a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path.

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Tell your friends about our ministry online at www .tt .com.

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Here once again is Pastor Gade. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Continuing with our readings in Proverbs, we're in Proverbs chapter 3, beginning in verse 13.

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I'm reading from the Legacy Standard Bible. How blessed is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who obtains discernment!

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For her profit is better than the profit of silver, and her produce better than fine gold.

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She is more precious than pearls, and nothing you desire compares with her.

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Length of days is in her right hand, in her left hand are riches and glory.

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Her ways are pleasant ways, and all her pathways are peace. She is a tree of life to those who seize her, and all those who hold her fast are blessed.

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You know, I remember about 20 years ago, when I was in college, hard to believe that that was now 20 years ago.

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It wasn't. It was just yesterday, right? I think it was more than 20 years ago, depending on which year of college you're talking about.

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But anyway, I remember when Jennifer Lopez, okay, the pop star. Okay, yeah. She was asked in an interview, which would you rather have, brains or beauty?

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And her answer was, beauty. Of course. And she said it in a very, like, flippant, valley girl sort of way, too.

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Like, you couldn't have been more airhead in the way that she responded to that question.

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But what would the Bible say that we should desire instead? Intelligence. Yeah, we should be looking for the wisdom of God.

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Yeah. And the way that wisdom is talked about here is being better than even precious pearls, fine gold.

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With it, you will have length of days, because we're talking about not just extending your life here on earth, because even fools can live a long time, like, you know, pop stars and movie stars and things like that.

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It is the length of days that we receive through faith in Jesus Christ, that kind of wisdom that we are given by the

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Spirit that we may know Christ and Him crucified, and by faith in Him, we will have everlasting life, far beyond whatever extension of years that you think that you could get on earth.

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And all the ways that we receive from the wisdom of God are pleasant, all the pathways are peace, because as Paul describes it in Philippians 4, it is a peace that surpasses all understanding.

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Yeah. Guarding our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. She is a tree of life. That's one of the ways that we know here that extension of days, length of days is talking about more than life on earth, because tree of life, that's in heaven.

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To those who sees her and all those who hold her fast are blessed.

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We have the very blessing of God. So the tree of life means heaven? Yeah, remember in Revelation, in Revelation 22, it's talked about how the tree of life is there in glory.

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We will all eat from the tree of life and live forever. Right, okay. So a reference there even in Proverbs to talking about gaining wisdom and how it will be a tree of life to us.

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We're not just talking about general wisdom, but specifically the wisdom of God. Right. I was just thinking that tree of life, you know, in the jewelry and stuff that I see is more of like a family tree, or like, you know, you're rooted, but you grow well and that sort of thing.

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So I just wanted to clarify. Well, there's not a family tree sort of an aspect that's given here.

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I didn't think so, but I thought I would clarify it like that. And that's more of kind of a modern thing.

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That's not really talked about in scripture so much, except for, I mean, you do have references to agrarian references,

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I guess we would say. References to agriculture of like Israel being a fig tree, or you have the cultivated olive tree in Romans chapter 11.

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So those references are there, but specifically tree of life in this aspect is going to be that fruit that we can take from and eat and live forever with God.

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Amen. And that's in Christ our Lord. Yeah. Well, here on the Friday edition of the broadcast, we desire to know more wisdom, the wisdom of God.

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Yes. And we ask questions and look for answers in the scriptures. And on the

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Friday edition, we take questions from the listeners, which you can send to us via email. When we understand the text at gmail .com,

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you can also send us a voicemail and we're going to do that right here. So go to www .utt

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.com, click on the voicemail tab right there on the page, and we'd play you right here.

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We'll play your voice on the broadcast. This is from Roberto. Awesome. Here we go.

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Hey, Pastor Gabe. This is Roberto. I've spoken to you on a different time on a different voicemail.

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We love hearing you, me and my wife, in our car, on our car drives. We really appreciate your ministry.

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Sorry to hear you guys were in an accident. I am a certified claims adjuster. So if you guys need any help or advice,

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I'm sure your insurance is probably taking care of that and helping you along the way. But if you do need help, feel free to reach out to me.

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And again, I'll be more than happy to assist you with any type of advice or next steps you may need to take or want to take.

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But I did have a question. I don't know if you've said this, maybe on a previous podcast, what are some of your favorite books, some of your favorite more recent reads, older reads, all time favorites.

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And also, I aspire to be a pastor. I was wondering, what are some of the books you recommend for an aspiring pastor?

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Again, we really appreciate your ministry and we love you guys and we hope that the Lord continues to bless you guys and everything that you do.

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Well, thank you so much, Roberto. Thank you. That is really kind. I might give you a call.

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Yeah. I mean, I've got a lawyer friend, we've got a lawyer friend in our church anyway. But specifically, you specialize in claims adjustment.

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So I might give you a call and ask you a couple of questions, which in addition to the accident that Becky was in a week and a half ago now, a little more than a week ago, it was

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Wednesday last week. So in addition to that accident, our house in Texas has been vandalized.

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We just can't catch a break on that house. So we got a break in on that house. It wasn't a break in, but it was outside the house got vandalized.

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So I got to deal with that on a Friday. And our neighbor got worse. Oh yeah, that's right.

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She did. So it was us and another neighbor as well. We still pray for that house to sell.

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And for her house to sell too. She's also trying to sell it. She's in a care home now.

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Not even in town even. And so she's got dementia too.

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So she's trying to sell her house too. Is it her family that's trying to sell it for her? I really don't know how that all works out.

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Somebody's working it out. I know that her nieces moved her to where she's at now. Gotcha. But as far as how hands -on they are with everything,

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I don't know. They just found her a good care home to help her. So pray for us and our neighbor in Texas that that house will go.

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Okay, so books that I'm reading. Well, right now I'm reading this one. We're going to give Megan a plug here on the broadcast.

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This is Shepherds for Sale by Megan Basham. How Evangelical Leaders Traded the

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Truth for a Leftist Agenda. Right now I'm on page about 175 and it is fantastic thus far.

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So we're trying to get Megan on the program too. And we'll do an interview with her. We had her and her husband

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Brian on a couple of years ago. Yeah, that was fun. One of our guest interviews. So we'll have her back on sometime in the near future.

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But check out that book, Shepherds for Sale. That's not so much like a deep doctrine or anything like that.

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That's more of a current events kind of a book. Yeah. Although she does share the gospel in there. Wonderful.

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How about those books that I read and would highly recommend? Well, beyond the Bible. Yeah, those were good questions, by the way.

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Yeah, great questions. First, my first recommendation after the Bible itself is

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Pilgrim's Progress. Oh yeah, you do love that one. That's a must read. For sure. You got to pick up Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan.

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Another one is A Little Book on the Christian Life by John Calvin. Even if you're not a

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Calvinist, that's still a great book. A .W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God. Now that one is definitely more for a

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Calvinist. Yes, I could see that. And Mortification of Sin by John Owen.

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Oh yeah. Those four classics are kind of like the four first classics that I would tell you are a must read.

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As for more current books, The Gospel According to Jesus by John MacArthur. Now, even if you don't know where you stand on the whole lordship salvation controversy, that has been such a prominent enough discussion in churches and in seminaries that you have to read it just to be up on the arguments.

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Yeah. So The Gospel According to Jesus by John MacArthur, that's a must read. Chosen by God by R .C.

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Sproul and Holiness of God by R .C. Sproul. Nice. And you're often gonna find those two books kind of in a package deal.

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Yeah. You'll get both of them at the same time. Then I've got, let's see here, various books that I recommend in different categories, like What You Need to Know About Preaching.

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Okay, so these are books that you would recommend as an aspiring pastor. Yes. Okay, he also asked you for your favorite.

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So that's where I thought you were going first. Oh, okay. Well, the classic must reads,

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John Bunyan, A Pilgrim's Progress. That's my favorite. Okay. Fair enough. I try to read that one about once a year.

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I don't quite get that far. So maybe once every two years. Yeah. It's about how often that I read Pilgrim's Progress.

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I've got it on my Kindle. So I'm either reading a physical copy of it or I'm just pulling it up on my phone.

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Yeah. And reading it there. There's various other John Bunyan books I have liked as well, but I've read such a variety of what he's written.

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I can't really pinpoint what exactly it was that he said in what book.

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Oh, yeah. Fair enough. So there's a great app that you can download, which is called the

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Monergism ebook app. I think I'm getting that right. Hang on, I've got it over right here, ebook library.

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Oh, there you go. The Monergism ebook library. And it's got like 900 titles. And some of the titles that I'm mentioning here, you will find in that library, especially if they're classic books, you'll find all of that there.

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Neat. Pilgrim's Progress is there. Type in John Bunyan and find what other books that he's written there.

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Some of these that I'm gonna mention by Jonathan Edwards and some other things, you'll find those on that app as well. Cool.

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That's a great - One -stop shop. Yeah, especially for a lot of those classic theological reads.

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Now, these are a little more current. So here's books that I would recommend on preaching.

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You wanna perfect your preaching skills, check out The Expository Genius of John Calvin by Stephen J.

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Lawson. So Lawson wrote the book talking about Calvin's expository preaching style, the things that he would do in his study, how he would write his sermons.

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Lawson is kind of an expert in that. So you're reading a book by Lawson about John Calvin's preaching.

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Also, Biblical Preaching by Haddon W. Robinson. That was just written a few years ago. Expository Preaching by David Strain.

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So these are good books to perfect that discipline of expository preaching, especially.

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Now, when it comes to knowing how the church functions, polity and things like that, you gotta read

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Nine Marks of a Healthy Church by Mark Dever. That's kind of a must read. I think if you were to ask any theologian, seminarian, pastor, give me some books that I should read as somebody who's aspiring to become a pastor, just about everybody's gonna put that book on there.

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Nine Marks of a Healthy Church by Mark Dever. Biblical Eldership by Alexander Strauch. And I think that's how you pronounce his last name anyway.

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I have no idea. And then Paul's Vision for the Deacons also by Strauch. So Biblical Eldership, Paul's Vision for the

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Deacons, you get the best of both worlds there. What do I need to know about eldership? What do

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I need to know about deacons? Very cool. And then, I mean, I've got other stuff on church membership, counseling.

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He reads a lot. Spiritual Depression by Martin Lloyd -Jones. That's a must read for every pastor. Yeah. And that's the number one counseling book that I would recommend is that one.

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But then you've got other books like, there's Biblical Counseling by John MacArthur, The Life and Diary of David Brainerd by Jonathan Edwards.

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Actually a very helpful counseling book. Going back to Edwards with that one. So anyway, hope those are some helpful titles for you.

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Yeah. I've got a whole list here. I'm sure you do. I keep it on my phone for just such an occasion when somebody asks me, hey, what are some books that you would recommend?

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And then I've had every once in a while, somebody will email me and say, hey, I've got an internship that I'm starting for somebody at my church.

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Do you have a list of books that you would recommend for an intern? Yeah. And so really that's kind of how I started compiling this list was if I'm training up somebody else, what books am

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I going to recommend them to read? Yeah. And that's kind of where this list came from. Yeah. So yeah, Godspeed to you,

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Roberto. And I might give you a call here sometime, perhaps this weekend. Yeah. And ask you about claims adjustment because I have no idea where to start with that.

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I do feel like even though the insurance company is kind of walking us through that, it does feel like they kind of low balled us on the payout for the van.

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Yeah. When it got totaled. Of course, that's what they're going to do. They'll give you the low amount, see if you'll go ahead and sign it.

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Yeah. And of course. All right, I'm going to try to push back and get a little more money because it was more worth it to us to not get in an accident.

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Definitely. Oh, so much. Then to lose that van. So yeah.

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So much. Next question here. This one is going to be a correction of something that I said last week.

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This is from Diane. Okay. She says, dear Pastor Gabe, first, thank you for your tireless work to proclaim gospel truth.

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We love and respect your work, which is why I'm writing. You have misrepresented

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Anglicans in America. Ah. Okay, so if you'll remember last week, the question that was given to us was, what are my thoughts on the

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Church of England? Right. In England. Church in England. Yes. Church of England in England. In England, yes.

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But I mentioned the Anglicans. Or not the Anglicans, sorry, the Episcopal Church in America. Oh, right.

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Because they are part of the Anglican Communion, which is under the monarch of England.

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Right. So anyway, I'll offer some further clarification here. Diane goes on, we are not part of the

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Church of England under the Archbishop of Canterbury. We are not part of the Episcopal Church in America.

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We are not Roman Catholic. I only ask that you do more research to describe us correctly. We are on your team.

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For the past 15 years, Anglicans in America have been organized together in the ACNA, Anglican Church in America.

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We broke from the Episcopal Church over the issue of gay priests. We also affiliate with GAFCON, Global Anglicans Who Grieve the

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Sins of the English Church. We are very much like you. Reformed, Orthodox, man slash woman,

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Bible first, not Roman Catholic. The ACNA has a diocese which can vary and debate on issues such as women's ordination, much like the label

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Baptist. But my tribe is not in favor of women's ordination. One deviant diocese is in open rebellion and prayers answered will soon leave the

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ACNA. I please just ask that you research who we are and do not prejudice your listeners against us.

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You may not like our worship format, but we do agree with you on all things Orthodox. Our podcast,

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Stand Firm, is presented by Anglican, or sorry, Evangelical Anglicans in the ACNA who

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I'm pretty sure you will affirm. Please take a listen before throwing us under the English double -decker bus.

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I laughed at that reference too. I thought that was great. That is. Thank you for reading respectfully, Diane.

17:24

Well, to clarify my answer last week, I was mainly talking about the

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Church of England and the Episcopal Church, which is part of the Anglican communion.

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I am aware that there are Anglicans that are not part of that communion. So the one that Diane mentioned, which is the

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Anglican Church in America, they're pretty small. They only have about 100 congregations altogether.

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Oh, okay. Then there is another one called the Anglican Church in North America, and that has about 1 ,000 congregations.

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Oh, wow, okay. So there are other Anglican communions in America other than those, but I was specifically referencing the

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Church of England because that's what I was asked about, and then the Episcopals because they're still under the monarch as part of the

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Anglican communion. But there are other Anglican sects that have broken away from that and would be a little bit more orthodox in practice.

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And the way that I generally answer this question, I may, I think I said this last week, I don't remember, but when somebody asks me about Anglicans, I simply tell them, you really need to look up the church and what it is that they teach there.

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Because - I think that's every church though. Oh, yeah. Even Southern Baptist churches. For sure, yeah. Like when we had people that would -

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We do that every time of, you know, look them up, talk to the pastor, all that stuff. Yeah, you gotta read their statement of faith.

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You need to talk to somebody there. Because when we had people at our Southern Baptist Church in Kansas, and we were part of a very transient community, whenever they would move from our community to somewhere else and they would ask us, so if I go to a

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Southern Baptist church in this other town that I'm moving to, is it gonna be like this one? I'd tell them, probably not.

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Yeah. I mean, you have to look and see, you have to talk to the pastor, you have to read their statement of faith.

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And like you said, that's really with any church. Yeah. You never know, even if they're part of a particular denomination, like you could have a

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PCUSA church that isn't for ordaining women or isn't for, you know, approving of LGBTQ issues.

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They're probably few and far between, but - Right, true. You could still have PCUSA churches that are not like the rest of the

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PCUSA. You just have to interview, you have to talk to people and find out, talking to the pastor.

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And definitely talk with people about like, what does this look like? And what would you do in this situation?

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You know, just to kind of feel a little bit more than just, okay, you've checked all the boxes, you sound like a great church, let's go.

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Because sometimes on paper it looks nice, but then in practice it doesn't really happen that way.

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So you also have to be, you know, cautious about - Ask questions. Yeah. Yeah, be up front and just be like, hey,

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I'm just making sure. But thank you for the question, Diane, and especially the double -decker bus reference was great.

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This one comes from Lori. Hi, Pastor Gabe and Becky, this is Lori in Goshen, Indiana.

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Studying God's word is my favorite thing to do and your teaching has been incredibly helpful, especially how you slowly, clearly exposit each verse.

20:30

Thank you. Before I ask my question, a comment and a request. Rather than listening to your

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Monday to Thursday podcasts, I look for your past series on the book I am studying in my group

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Bible Studies. I believe that you said you're in the process of updating links by books on your website.

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Please keep it going. It would help me and I'm sure others tremendously since we can't get them all on Apple Podcasts.

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Yeah, I'm aware of that, which is why I started archiving them on the website. And it's difficult, she says, to search through what is there.

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Also a tip that may help others, transcripts are available for all episodes to help with note -taking after you listen.

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Aw. Well, I can't really do that. That would take a long time, but I will make the audio available.

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And then if you've got like an AI program. I thought she was saying there are transcripts available. Well, she says a tip, transcripts are available for all episodes.

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So transcripts are available, where are they available? Does she mean that they're available somewhere?

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We're curious. Yeah, you'll have to clarify that for me, Laurie. My question, she says, was prompted by a question you answered about the tribulation this past Friday.

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This would have been a couple of weeks ago. My question is this, what do you believe is the proper date for the writing of Revelation?

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As I'm studying Revelation, most widely known commentators that I read and listen to hold the view that Revelation was given to John in 95

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AD and speaks entirely about coming end times events. However, a local pastor

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I frequently listen to on YouTube is going through Revelation right now in his Sunday sermon series. He came to his belief after reading a book called

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Before Jerusalem Fell by Kenneth Gentry. Yes, that's a very post -millennial teacher. So he's gonna take an early dating of Revelation.

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Okay. She said he gives some very solid evidence that God gave John this revelation to warn the church of what was gonna come in the tribulation of the destruction of the temple and the fall of the city of Jerusalem in AD 70.

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He weaves this throughout all of his messages and believes that it is crucial to our understanding of what the

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Lord is saying in this revelation. You always have incredible insights. I don't know about that.

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And I would love to hear your beliefs about this. And also if you believe it is essentially important in understanding the book.

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I look forward to hearing your answer and God bless you for helping us understand the text each day. P .S.

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I tried to leave a voicemail, but it wouldn't let me go longer than a minute and a half. Aw. So this was

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Laurie's long message that we have here. Okay, so I take a very unusual approach to the dating of Revelation.

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Here's my answer. It's a two -part answer. Okay, you ready? It was yesterday, right? Yeah, right.

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I'm just kidding. Here's my answer to the dating of Revelation. Number one, I don't know.

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Okay. Number two. That's very controversial. Yeah. Number two is going to be even more controversial.

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It doesn't matter. Now there are going to be teachers that disagree with me on that.

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Because there are some that think it is critical to take the late dating view of the book of Revelation.

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95 is too late. I think that's way too late. Because that would be like right at the death of the

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Apostle John. Okay. And he wouldn't have been exiled to Patmos in 95 AD. So that's unlikely.

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It would have been a little earlier than that. But after the destruction of the temple in AD 70. So there are some that are,

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I mean, firm on that. It has to be that. Then there are others that say, no, it was before AD 70 because of all the warnings that are given in Revelation concerning Nero Caesar and things like that regarding the destruction of the temple.

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Because they believe that 666, rightly translated, is pointing to Nero. Okay, right.

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Anyway, I'm still going to take the approach that to rightly understand the book of Revelation and to be able to read it properly in the way that it is supposed to be uplifting and encouraging to the church in every generation,

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I think it's better for you to really not know the date as to when it was written. Not that it's completely unimportant, but you can have a certain bias that will come into your interpretation of Revelation based on the time in which you think

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John wrote it. And hence why Gentry has that approach of it being before the destruction of the temple because he thinks it's a warning to the church.

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I disagree. I disagree that the reason why it was written was to warn about the destruction of the temple in AD 70.

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That's not to say that I couldn't be convinced by an early dating. But like I said, I take the approach of I don't know and it doesn't matter.

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But here's a couple of great series that you can listen to on the book of Revelation. I know

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John MacArthur is teaching it right now at Grace Community. But when you listen to MacArthur, you're gonna get just the dispensational view of Revelation.

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It's not to say that it's not important to know what other people say about it, but that's the view you're gonna get. So you got

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Gentry's view, which is post -millennial. You've got John MacArthur's view that's gonna be dispensational.

25:41

Robert Godfrey through Ligonier just recently released a series on teaching through Revelation.

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That is wonderful. And it is very adaptable to anyone of any approach to an understanding of the book of Revelation.

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Nice. So regardless of where you might be, he just goes through all of Revelation verse by verse and he'll give you various interpretations.

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Like some people believe it means this, some think it believes this. And then of course,

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Godfrey's gonna give you his view on it, but he's still very balanced in the way that he approaches it. Sinclair Ferguson also has a very, very excellent -

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Accent. Yes, that's right. Yes. Yeah. He has a great - I couldn't resist. Yeah.

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He has a great voice you just wanna listen to. I love it. There's certainly that.

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I guess he did a Revelation. He did a Revelation series. And then also Votie Bauckham has one as well.

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And you can find both Sinclair Ferguson's and Votie Bauckham's through monergism .org.

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Oh, nice. So go to that website, type in like Votie Bauckham Revelation, I think it comes up one page with a whole series on it or Sinclair Ferguson and you might come up with the same result.

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But I would recommend that to you as well. Laurie, it sounds like you're on the way to becoming an expert in Revelation, listening to all these teachers go through this book.

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I've been through it several times. I go through Revelation about once a year and listen to a different teacher exposit it.

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So yeah, Godspeed to you on that expository journey.

27:21

Yes, and pastors keep them coming. That's right. Well, this will conclude this portion of the program and then hang tight and we've got part two coming up.

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Or if you're listening to this on the radio, you can catch the full hour of the Friday edition when you go to www .tt

27:39

.com, subscribe to the podcast and you'll get both parts. Let's finish this part with prayer.

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Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for what we have read here today, the questions that we have gleaned from some of these listeners and attempted to respond to according to your word.

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I pray that we would be filled with the scriptures daily and desire to know you more, that we would be grown in holiness and in righteousness, made in Christ likeness, longing all the more for the day of Christ to come.

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Let us pray with the Apostle John at the end of Revelation, Lord Jesus, come quickly. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.

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Amen. We ought to whisper about what the

28:28

Bible whispers about and we ought to shout about what it shouts about. And the Bible appears more to whisper when it comes to sexual sin compared to its shouts about materialism and religious pride.

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It's religious pride to preach the Bible whispers about sexual sin. God said loud and clear, flee from sexual immorality or any kind of sex outside the marriage bed since God created sex for a husband and a wife.

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Often when the Bible lists the sins God will judge, sexual sins are first on the list. Now, someone might say, wait,

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I listened to Pastor Greer's sermon and in context he was saying the Bible whispers about homosexual sin.

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Okay, was God whispering when he destroyed the Sodomites? Jude 7 says they indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire and now serve as an example by undergoing punishment of eternal fire.

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Greer's sermon was on Romans 1, 24 through 32. Over half that section describes homosexual passions as the perverse behavior of a people given over to a debased mind.

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How does anyone preach the Bible whispers about this? Many churches are embroiled in sexual scandal and this is in front of the whole world.

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It does not help when church leaders say things like the Bible whispers about sexual sin.

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Bad doctrine causes these problems and bad doctrine makes them worse. Do not whisper any word of God, preach

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Christ and him crucified for our sins when we understand the text.

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This next question has to do with that video that you just heard. This comes from Johnny in North Carolina.

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He says, Pastor Gabe, years ago, I had seen a video that you had done in which you highlighted a portion of a sermon from J .D.

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Greer who said that God whispers about sexual sin. I believe I also heard this in a sermon you preached from Romans 1, once again recalling that a former

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Southern Baptist Convention president had preached that the Bible whispers about sexual sin.

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I think in that sermon, I said that two consecutive Southern Baptist Convention presidents had preached that the

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Bible whispers about sexual sin. Anyway, I may come back to that. Johnny goes on, have you seen that Greer has actually apologized for this comment?

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He has said that his wording was careless and he would not preach it the same way again. Would this affect in any way your videos highlighting

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Greer's mistaken teaching? Would you at least be willing to post a disclaimer in the description of the video and maybe a link to where Greer apologized?

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And then Johnny provides that link where Greer apologized. He says,

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I hope that we in the body of Christ are willing to accept these kinds of apologies and extend God's grace when a pastor is willing to admit he erred.

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Well, I appreciate your comment and for sending that link. The link that he sent to me was to an open response to Megan Basham's Shepherds for Sale, which

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Greer posted online this past Monday. Shepherds for Sale is the book that I mentioned in the first segment, I said to Roberto that I was currently reading.

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And in that book, Megan gives considerable attention to comments that Greer has made downplaying the sin of homosexuality.

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Now, when I say that Greer downplays homosexuality, I'm not merely speculating here.

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Greer has done this many times over his preaching ministry. He has been so controversial in the way that he has minimized homosexuality and heaped guilt upon the church.

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That one sermon that he gave 10 years ago at a conference that was put on by the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission has since been deleted.

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You cannot find the full sermon either in Greer's archives or in the

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ERLC's archives. But there are still plenty of clips from that sermon floating around online.

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Listen to this. Just representing churches will be known as the friends of the

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LGBTQ community. I think the question to us as church leaders, have you drawn the gay and lesbian community close?

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Are you an advocate against abuse, injustice and discrimination on their behalf?

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Isn't that what you would do for a friend? I do want to apologize to the gay and lesbian community on behalf of my community and me for not standing up against abuse and discrimination directed towards you.

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That was wrong and we need your forgiveness. Now, what you don't hear in that clip is the audience actually begins clapping at that particular comment.

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How exactly are we to draw the gay and lesbian community close?

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One way Greer says is that we become advocates against abuse, injustice and discrimination on their behalf.

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Okay, what does that look like? What instances of abuse, injustice and discrimination does he have in mind?

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When he says, I do want to apologize to the gay and lesbian community on behalf of my community and me for not standing up against abuse and discrimination directed toward you.

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What occasion of abuse or discrimination is he talking about? Who is this community that he is apologizing for?

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When he says that even he has not stood up against abuse and discrimination directed at gays and lesbians, in what instances has he failed to do this?

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Does he need to be disciplined? Does he need to step down? This is called posturing, which is behavior intended to impress or mislead.

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It doesn't actually mean anything. I've called Greer, I've called him out on doing this before.

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In my critique of Greer's sermon at the Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting, which was in Nashville in 2021, he did it there too.

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It's his stick. And many people are fooled into thinking that he's being sincere. While Greer might be a master of posturing, he is terrible at apologizing.

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Greer has not apologized for the comments that he made in his 2019 sermon on Romans 1.

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In fact, when I read Greer's apology in his open response to Megan Basham, I wondered if he even remembered what it was he preached in that terrible sermon.

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In Shepherds for Sale, page 227, Megan says the following, quote,

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Though he reversed his position after two years of pushback, North Carolina megachurch pastor

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J .D. Greer, while president of the Southern Baptist Convention, encouraged his congregation to minimize speaking about sexual sins like homosexuality, saying they should not shout about what the

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Bible whispers about, as if the destruction of Sodom and Paul's description in Romans 1 of the progressions of societal depravity were mere murmurs, unquote.

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Greer responded to Megan, quote, First, I have not changed my position on homosexuality or changed how

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I encouraged our congregation to engage with it. Multiple streams of evidence show that I used a poor choice of words that allowed my meaning to be misconstrued, especially when those words were lifted out of context of the rest of the message, unquote.

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Does that sound like a legitimate, heartfelt apology to you?

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Does it sound like the beginning of a heartfelt apology? I used a poor choice of words that allowed my meaning to be misconstrued by other people, not by him, especially, he goes on to say, when those words were lifted out of context of the rest of the message, yeah.

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So this is not an apology, this is finger pointing. It's those people who made this into something that it's not.

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The sermon in question was entitled, How the Fall Affects Us All. It was preached at the

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Summit Church in Durham, North Carolina on January 27th, 2019. The text that Greer was covering was

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Romans 1, 24 to 32. About 10 minutes into the sermon, he read to the congregation verses 26 to 27, which say the following, for this reason,

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God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature.

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And the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another.

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Men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

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Greer then said the following. Now, this is the longest and the clearest passage in the

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Bible on homosexuality. And let me just go ahead and acknowledge right up front here, I know,

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I know that historically, we in the church have not done a great job in talking about this and maybe even a worse job in caring for those who are going through this.

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But let's begin by at least looking humbly and open -mindedly at what God's word says about this.

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And then afterwards, we'll talk about what that means for those of us who are seeking to follow Jesus.

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This is the lead -in to Greer's exposition of Romans 1, 26 to 27. And what has he just done?

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He opens by saying that historically, the church has done a bad job caring for homosexuals.

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That's how he opens his exposition of these two verses. In his response to Megan, he said that his comments were lifted out of context.

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But when you actually listen to the context, he hits harder against the church and pulls the punch of what the passage is actually addressing.

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Continuing his response to Megan, Greer says, when it became clear that people outside of our church thought

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I was minimizing or denying the sinfulness of homosexuality, I took responsibility for my failure in communication and clarified my position, unquote.

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Greer will not say that he preached something wrong. He only says that he was unclear.

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The people in his church knew what he meant, but people outside of his congregation thought I was minimizing or denying the sinfulness of homosexuality.

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So he might sound like he's taking responsibility for his errors, but he's not. This apology has the persona of someone who is saying,

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I'm sorry if you were offended. That's not an apology. Greer continues, quote, the sermon in question did not minimize speaking about the sin of homosexuality, mute homosexuality sinfulness, or encourage our congregation to do so.

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If you listen to the sermon, you will hear that it refers at least seven times to homosexuality sinfulness. Just before the section of the sermon

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Basham pulled from, I had quoted in full Paul's warning from 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11, that those embracing or practicing homosexuality would not inherit the kingdom of God.

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And just after I told gay and lesbian people that to go to heaven, they must repent and be born again, which

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I said meant they must say something to God like this. God, I'm sorry for elevating my desires over your will.

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I'm sorry for attempting to define my identity apart from your design for me. I'm sorry for taking on myself the authority to declare what's good.

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I'm sorry for seeking satisfaction and self -fulfillment rather than from giving glory to you.

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I recognize Jesus is Lord and turn over control to him. And then

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Greer links to the actual transcript. Now, I acknowledge that Greer does say in that sermon that homosexuality is sin and will keep a person from the kingdom of God.

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I acknowledged that in 2019, the first time I critiqued this sermon. But Greer has an ability for presenting issues in such a way that can appease more than one side.

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Yes, he called homosexuality sin and he also made it sound like it's a sin that the

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Bible doesn't really speak that much about. You can't have it both ways, of course. If scripture says that the sexually immoral, adulterers, idolaters, homosexuals, and effeminate will not inherit the kingdom of God, 1

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Corinthians 6, 9, that's a really big deal. It's kind of hard to downplay that, but Greer did.

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You heard it in the clip. Greer said that the Bible whispers about sexual sin, not just homosexual sin, but sexual sin.

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Can you imagine someone attending Summit Church that day, struggling with the hurt of having been sexually abused?

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And they hear the pastor say that the Bible whispers about sexual sin?

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Ironically and tragically, it was just two weeks after this sermon that the

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Houston Chronicle story broke, exposing instances of sexual abuse in Southern Baptist churches.

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And here was the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, having just preached two weeks before that the

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Bible whispers about sexual sin. Simply astonishing.

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Greer goes on here. Quote, in using whisper, I was making a comparison with how

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Jesus talked about pride and religious hypocrisy versus how he talked with those he encountered in sexual sin, i .e.,

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compare his tone in Matthew 23 with the tone of his conversations in John 4 and John 8.

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I was attempting to show that whenever Jesus dealt with someone in sexual sin in the gospels, he spoke to them up close with tenderness as individuals with stories, even as he made clear their sin to them.

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In the sermon itself, in the statements that immediately followed, that is exactly how

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I contextualized what I meant by whispers," unquote.

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Now, this is really the place that exposes the faultiness in Greer's so -called apology.

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Either Greer doesn't properly recall the content of his own sermon, or he's being deceptive.

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Either way, this is dishonest. His whispers comment in the sermon was not about tone, but it was about frequency and the degree of seriousness.

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Now, remember, he's blaming Megan and the rest of us for lifting his comment out of context.

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But the reality is it's actually Greer who is lifting his own comment out of context.

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Listen to it yourself. I mean, in terms of frequency of mention or the passion with which

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Paul talks about it, it would appear that quite a few other sins are more egregious in God's eyes than homosexuality.

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Jen Wilkin, who's one of our favorite Bible teachers here and who's actually leading our women's conference, she said, we ought to whisper about what the

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Bible whispers about, and we ought to shout about what it shouts about. And the Bible appears more to whisper when it comes to sexual sin compared to its shouts about materialism and religious pride.

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Throughout Jesus's ministry in his life, we see him demonstrating great, just incredible sympathy for those caught in sexual sin and great animosity toward the religiously proud.

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In fact, Jesus one time, not one time, ever said that it was difficult for the same -sex attracted to go to heaven.

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He did say it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it was for a religiously proud or materialistically successful person to enter into the kingdom of God.

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That is not to say that same -sex behavior is not sinful, just to say that we often present it differently than the

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Bible does. Even if I could be convinced that Greer's whisper line was about tone, it's still a really stupid comment.

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Remember the context here. Greer said the Bible whispers about sexual sin while he was preaching from Romans 1, 24 to 32.

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The Bible does anything but whisper about sexual sin. I'm getting excited about this because this is just, this is incredible.

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I mean, it's just remarkable that even if he wants to try to convince you, no, this was just about tone.

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Well, that was not the tone of Romans 1. This is probably the worst line of commentary

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I have ever heard preaching through the book of Romans. I was blown away the first time

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I heard him say it. I could not believe he said it. You're preaching from Romans 1, and you're saying the

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Bible whispers about sexual sin. But furthermore, he used these illustrations here about Jesus being tender with those who were in sexual sin, but he was harsh and he was severe and just in the face of those people who are self -righteous and full of religious pride.

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But just consider Jesus' exchange with the rich young ruler. We went through this not long ago when we were in Mark 10.

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Greer made that comment about it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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Well, remember the context of that as we read it in Mark 10. Let me read this for you again, starting in verse 17.

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As he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, good teacher, what must

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I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said to him, why do you call me good?

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No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments, do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.

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And the young ruler said to him, teacher, all these I have kept from my youth.

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And Jesus looking at him, loved him and said to him, you lack one thing, go sell all that you have and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven and come follow me.

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Disheartened by the saying, he went away sorrowful for he had many great possessions.

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Now tell me, does that sound like Jesus was being really harsh and gruff with that guy because he was religiously prideful?

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No, it sound like he was being tender and loving with him. So no, it's not just that Jesus would reserve his harshest criticisms for the religiously prideful, he was even affectionate toward those who were full of themselves.

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And Jesus told him the hard truth because he loved him. Jesus looking at him, loved him and said, you still have this sin you've not taken care of and here's what you need to do about it.

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But the young man went away sorrowful because he loved his stuff more than he loved

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God. Now, how about the flip side of that? Is Jesus therefore just really tender with those people that are caught in sexual sin?

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Now, Greer made a reference to John four, which is the Samaritan woman at the well and John eight, which is the woman that's caught in adultery even though John didn't actually write that account, but okay, all of that aside.

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So is Jesus response to those in sexual sin just this tender loving kind way?

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And so that's the way that we should regard sexual sin, but we need to be more harsh with those people that are full of religious pride.

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We'll consider the way that Jesus addresses sexual sin in Revelation two, starting in verse 18, to the angel of the church in Thyatira, write the words of the son of God who has eyes like a flame of fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze.

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I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance and that your latter works exceed the first, but I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman

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Jezebel who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.

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I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.

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Behold, I will throw her onto a sick bed and those who commit adultery with her, I will throw into great tribulation unless they repent of her works and I will strike her children dead and all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart and I will give to each according to their works.

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So out of those two accounts right there, does it sound like Jesus is more harsh with the religiously prideful and he's a lot more gentle and loving and tender with those who are caught in sexual immorality?

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No, I would say actually that Jesus gives equal weight of severity to both because either one, a person who is full of themselves, believing in their own self -righteousness, trusting in their own self -righteousness,

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God is going to destroy if they do not repent and to the one who continues in sexual immorality and encourages others to do the same,

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God will destroy if they do not repent. Really the way that Jesus deals with either one of them is with equal severity.

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So it is ridiculous of Greer to even remotely suggest that there's a whispering that goes along with sexual sin, but a severity that comes along with addressing religious pride.

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But once again, his comments about whispering were not about Jesus being tender.

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It was about frequency of mention. He said that. Author Thomas Cattuzas pointed out that this style of homosexuality in the

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Bible based on frequency originates with Jim Wallace, founder of Sojourners Magazine.

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Wallace had once shown how the word poor appears over 1 ,500 times in the

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Bible, but homosexuality is mentioned only seven times. His conclusion, Cattuzas said, was that Christians must be more concerned about the poor and less concerned about homosexuality.

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The origination of this thought came from the progressive movement and Wilkin and Greer swallowed it, hook, line, and sinker, unquote.

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So in answer to your question, Johnny, no, I am not going to be adding any disclaimers to my video about Greer apologizing for his whisper comment because he neither understands the seriousness of what he said, nor has he apologized for it.

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Either he's being deceptive about what he said or he doesn't remember what he said.

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And the latter is a real possibility. It was in the summer of 2021 that newly elected president of the

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Southern Baptist Convention, Ed Litton, was exposed for plagiarizing his sermon on Romans 1, 24 to 32, which he had lifted from Greer's sermon on Romans 1, 24 to 32.

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As someone else had said of me during that whole ordeal, I was at the tip of the spear in exposing

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Litton's plagiarism. It began when I played a clip of Litton saying that the Bible whispers about sexual sin just as Greer had preached a couple of years before.

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Well, then a listener sent a video that he had edited together showing that Litton had actually plagiarized the entire sermon.

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And I shared that video on my Twitter account of Litton preaching one part and then showing how

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Greer had said the same thing and it would go back and forth like that for about three or four minutes. After that, many other online sleuths discovered that Litton had actually plagiarized dozens of sermons from Greer.

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And in less than 48 hours, a single few -second clip had blown open a full -fledged scandal.

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Now, Litton got all the attention. It was out of that whole thing that the term litanizing was coined for a preacher who plagiarizes sermons.

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He's litanizing. He's ripping off that sermon from somebody else. So Litton got all the attention.

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And while Greer did comment on his role in the whole thing, saying that he had given permission to Litton to use his sermons, not as much attention was given to the discovery that Greer had endorsed a company called

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Docent Group. According to their website, Docent will, quote, "'Custom create from scratch content for busy pastors, "'sermon research, congregational surveys, "'small group discipleship,' et cetera."

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It goes on and on. So we know from interviews with people who have worked for Docent and utilized their material that sermon research may consist of providing entire sermon series for pastors.

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10 years ago, a disgraced and disqualified pastor, Mark Driscoll, was exposed for plagiarism.

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That was part of the whole scandal surrounding Driscoll and the various sins that he was guilty of, one of them being plagiarism.

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A former Docent employee had said that one of Driscoll's books used huge swaths of material written by this employee at Docent.

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The content was merely intended to help Driscoll with writing his book, but Driscoll published it word for word as if it had been his own words.

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So when, during this whole plagiarism thing was going on, it was seen that J .D.

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Greer's personal endorsement was posted on Docent's website, suddenly that endorsement disappeared.

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Hmm. Was Docent trying to cover for Greer? Here's another little wrinkle to that.

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What is the possibility? That Lytton didn't actually lift

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Greer's sermon for himself, but he got the same sermon from the same source that Greer had used.

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And to prevent that scandal from getting bigger and exposing more pastors as Lyttonizers, Greer's Docent group endorsement was taken down and they let

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Lytton be the fall guy. Now I can't prove any of that, of course, but it's plausible. All of that aside,

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Greer's not sorry. Megan has done a great job not only exposing these shepherds for sale, but in their reactions to her book, she has also exposed that many of them don't seem to possess one ounce of humility.

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I've been preaching lately from Titus and it's in chapter one where the apostle Paul lists qualifications for pastors.

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An overseer as God's steward must be above reproach.

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He must not be arrogant or quick -tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self -controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined.

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He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it,

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Titus one, five through nine. Thank you for listening to when we understand the text.

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If you so feel compassion for Becky and I and you want to give us a gift, you can find information about giving to us from our website, www .utt

56:53

.com, and you'll notice that give tab there at the top right corner of the page. We thank you as always for your prayers and for sharing our podcast with others.

57:03

That's how the podcast has become as widespread as it is because of word of mouth. People have just told other people about it.

57:10

And we thank you for letting us know even what this has meant to you. We love reading the emails and hearing from people who say that they have made this a part of their daily devotionals.

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And I want to say thank you, especially to my own church, Providence Reform Baptist Church here in Casa Grande, Arizona, for allowing me to do this and making it a part of my ministry so that it's not only feeding people in my own congregation, but feeding people around the

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United States and around the world. My desire is simply to preach the word of Christ and he provides the growth.

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Heavenly father, we thank you for the work that you are doing in us. And I pray that we would be faithful workers in the way that we handle

57:50

God's word, in the way that we love one another and receive correction from each other, give correction to one another, help us to be above reproach, above blame, that we're not full of ourselves, that we are lovers of good.

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Help us to be self -controlled, upright, holy and disciplined in our lives, imitators of our savior,

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Jesus Christ. For us, he died and bought us with a price. So teach us to honor