Matt Slick Live: June 6, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live.

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If you're a newbie and you want to give me a call, we talk about theology, aliens, UFOs, we talk about logic, historicity of the scriptures,

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Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian science, unity, Baha 'i, Islam, we talk about everything.

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So if you're curious and you want to know, and by the way, Matt Slick is my real name, Matt Slick Live kind of works nicely, and I want to hear from you.

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So give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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You can also email me, and to do that, it's really simple. All you have to do is dial, or not dial, but just send an email to info at karm .org,

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info at karm .org, and put in the subject line, just put in radio comment, radio question, easy.

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That's all you've got to do, and then we can get to them. We usually do it on Fridays, but as the week slows down, then we do it on Thursdays sometimes, or whatever.

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All right. I had some really good conversations on the Internet last night. Met a guy who was really interesting.

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I had a discussion. I very, very, very rarely meet people who are as well -educated and informed on philosophical terminology as this guy last night.

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He knew a lot more than I did. I had to ask him several times, what does that mean? What does this mean? And it was really great.

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We had a great conversation, and he's a polytheist pagan, and I'm not praising him, but it was a really good conversation.

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And he was very, very polite and articulate and intelligent. We went back and forth for 45 minutes, and I don't know, give or take, discussing all kinds of stuff that I get a kick out of, universals, particulars, transcendentals, platonic norms, how they relate to things, preconditions for intelligibility, just stuff that, for me, was a lot of fun.

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And he was asking some good questions, talking about the doctrine of the Trinity and the issues of identity in the

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Trinity. How do we know something is or isn't, and a lot of stuff. But it was good conversations.

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I had a good time. And then there was an obstreperous guy later towards the evening, and he's an atheist, who was arguing against the idea of Gehenna being a fire pit and representative of hell, and he was just condescending, and that didn't go well.

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I think that's about it, though. And, hey, if you want to watch the show, why is that there like that?

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That is really strange. So I'm going to do something really different. Sorry about that.

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Well, that's interesting. Why does it say? Man, I'm really confused, because today's date, and maybe,

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Laurie, you can look at this in Rumble. It looks like the, I don't know what's going on, the date, that's like live, says

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January 24th. But maybe I failed to do something. I don't know. We'll see what happens.

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I could fix it later. All right. Hey, we have nobody waiting. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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I want to hear from you. Give me a call. The reason I'm kind of curious is because normally there's chat going on in the

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Rumble there, and it's not working. Maybe it's because I didn't fix a certain, that's what it is.

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It's my fault. I've got so many things I'm doing. It's January 24th, and they're going, what if that's not right?

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So I messed them up. Oh, man. Let's see if you can fix that.

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Maybe, Laura, maybe you can. I don't know. I don't know. We'll figure it out. All right.

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Hey, let's see. Since there's nobody waiting right now, I think what I will do is go to some of the emails, because we do have a lot of emails that come in, and I can answer questions and stuff like that.

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When did Jesus get the Spirit? It says it landed upon Him when

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He came out of the water. Well, that would be when the Holy Spirit came upon Him. Now, He already has the

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Holy Spirit in Him by nature of the Trinitarian essence and stuff like that. But since He was made for a little while more than the angels,

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Hebrews 2 .9, made under the law, Galatians 4 .4, then He had to fulfill the requirements of the

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Old Testament Scriptures, Matthew 5 .17, to do what was necessary. And the

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Holy Spirit came upon Him at His baptism, or right after His baptism came up. And part of the reason

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He was baptized was to enter into the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek.

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So that He was able to fulfill those Old Testament requirements. Now, I'm going to say something here.

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It will generate some confusion with a lot of people. But in my opinion, Jesus was sprinkled at His baptism.

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Now, I know that's not common knowledge or commonly held belief.

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But the reason I hold to that is because in the

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Old Testament requirements, because Jesus said the reason He was baptized in Matthew 3 .15 was to fulfill righteousness.

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That means the Old Testament law. So what was He doing that corresponded to the

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Old Testament requirements? The only thing you could find, and I've done a lot of research on this, is out of the various chapters,

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Leviticus 8, Numbers 4, Exodus 29, when Jesus imitated several, not all, several of the things necessary for Him entering into the priesthood.

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So He had to be 30 years of age, and He was 30. He had to have a verbal blessing given.

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My beloved Son, whom I'm well pleased. Anointing with oil, which represents the Holy Spirit.

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And He had to be sprinkled with water. Now, that's what the priest requirement was for the priesthood.

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Now, here, think about this. Think about this. When you're anointed with oil, that means oil is put upon you.

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When they were anointed with blood, that means the blood was put upon them. Well, what does it mean to be baptized with water?

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And I did a study on this. And I found out that whenever it's an element like blood or water, or excuse me, blood or oil, baptized with, anointed with, whatever,

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I'll use that word out for now, it means the element was applied to the person. And that was the sanctifying work.

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So I did this study. And I'm opening up my baptism file because I've got a big file on baptism.

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And here we go. And so, I did this study. Okay, now I'm just rambling, but I'll keep going.

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We've got nobody waiting right now. Okay, so, let's see, baptized with.

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Okay, here we go. Alright, so, verb with water.

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I did a study on this in the entire Bible. Okay, so the verb, baptized, sprinkled, immersed, whatever it might be, with water.

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So, you wash them with water, Exodus 29 .4. You wash with water in Exodus 30 .20.

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But here's the thing. It says, you know, in Exodus 29 .4, Then you shall bring

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Aaron and his sons to the doorway of the tent of meeting and wash them with water. Which means that the water was applied to them.

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They didn't get unclothed and then get into a bath and then get immersed in water. That's not what had happened at the tent.

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In Exodus 30 .20, it says, when they entered the tent of the meeting, they shall wash with water.

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They apply water to themselves. What's interesting is, in Mark 1 .8, Jesus says, I baptize you with water.

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He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. So, if you're baptized with the

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Holy Spirit, how the Holy Spirit is applied is by pouring. That's the Old Testament. I did a study on this.

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And, you know, the Holy Spirit is poured. And you go to Joel 2 .28 -29, it's referenced in Acts 2 .17

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-18. This is the prophecy of the Holy Spirit being poured. And that's referencing the baptism.

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And it is! And I was like, I'm looking at this going, wait a minute, how come I've never been taught this before?

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And it can't be that I'm right, what I'm seeing.

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But am I? Is that what it says? No one else is teaching this, apparently. And so it really was, you know, a concern.

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So anyway, I kept studying, right? Here's Luke 3 .16. He says, I baptize you with water. The one who's coming is minor than I.

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I'm not fit to untie the thong of his sandals. He'll baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

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And that baptism of the Holy Spirit is, biblically speaking, the pouring of the Holy Spirit on them.

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And then Acts 11 .16. John baptized with water. You'll be baptized with the

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Holy Spirit. How about this? In Hebrews 9 .19. He took the blood of the calves and the goats with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people.

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Notice that. Water and stuff is used in sprinkling. I'm like, man.

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How about this? Check this out. Anointing with oil. In 2 Chronicles 28 .15.

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He fed them, gave them drink, anointed them with oil. Led their feeble ones on donkeys.

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Or how about Psalm 23 .4. Verse 5. You have anointed my head with oil.

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That means to apply the oil to the head. Micah 6 .15.

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It says, you will tread the olive but will not anoint yourself with oil. Mark, New Testament 6 .13.

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They're casting out many demons and they were anointing with oil many sick people.

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James 5 .14. You're to pray over him, anointing him with oil. So, however these places were to anoint with.

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You anoint with oil, with perfume, and with the Holy Spirit. And these are all these verses.

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I can read all the verses. I'm reading the text. It says, and anointed him with oil.

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And so, you're cleansed with blood. And that's Hebrews 9 .22.

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Well, how were they cleansed with blood? It was sprinkled on them in the Old Testament. So, I'm looking at this.

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Man. And it started, it messes with you. You know? What does it mean?

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And so, I've talked to people about this. And say, well, just look what I'm finding.

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And they say, well, baptism means immersion all the time. Well, no it doesn't. It can't be approved that easily.

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It doesn't always mean that. Maybe it does. Well, you know, in Acts chapter 8. At the end of Acts chapter 8, the

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Ethiopian eunuch and Philip. You know, they got baptized. They went into the water. I said, exactly.

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They went into the water. Were they both immersed? Because it says, they came out of the water.

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So, how was the baptism? Was it by immersion? Because if it was, if going into the water means they were immersed, then

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Philip and the eunuch were both immersed. But it doesn't make any sense. And so, there's different ways the word baptism is used.

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And then there's baptism of the Holy Spirit and stuff like that. And I can go on and on. I really can.

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There's just so much there. Let's get to Christopher from North Carolina. Christopher, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

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I hope you're doing well today. Hanging in there, man. Hanging in there. What do you got, buddy? Praise God.

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So, my question is actually about, you know, this topic, kind of like an offshoot of it.

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Because I got to thinking as you're talking about baptism, you know, my question essentially is, when someone becomes a believer,

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I think it talks about it in Ephesians. It says that, you know, we receive the Holy Spirit, and it's the seal of salvation.

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But then Paul and Acts, I forget what group of people he was talking about, and he was talking to them, and they were like talking about baptism.

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And then he asked, have you received the baptism of the Holy Spirit? We haven't even heard.

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Let's get to that. But we've got a break coming up. So, hold on, buddy. And we'll get back with that in a little bit, okay?

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Hey, folks, if you're interested in this topic or want to comment, 877 -207 -2276.

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We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Christopher.

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Christopher, welcome. You're on the air. Yes, sir. Awesome, thanks. All right, so you were talking about something in the

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New Testament about baptism and stuff like that. So what was your question? Yeah, so in Ephesians it talks about when we become believers, not verbatim, but that the

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Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation. And then

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Paul talks about in Acts, I forget what people group he's talking to, but he asks if they received the baptism of the

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Holy Spirit. They say only the baptism of water. We haven't heard that there was a baptism of the

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Holy Spirit. So how do you decipher between the two?

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Because, you know, coming from a charismatic church, you always believe, like, the baptism of the Holy Spirit came from, like, laying on the hands as, like, seeing an ax.

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And is there a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and the baptism of the Holy Spirit? It depends how we define it.

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Some use them interchangeably to receive the Holy Spirit. So this is, like, in Acts 8 -15, for example.

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And so people had received the word of God. They sent Peter and John, who came down and prayed that they might receive the

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Holy Spirit. For he had not yet fallen upon any of them. They'd simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

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So there's something going on here. I'm going to throw another little monkey wrench into this.

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Now, before I do, I want to say that my studies of this are proving a bit problematic for the status quo in that what

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I'm concluding is not what the majority of Christians that I've read and talked to have affirmed.

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And so I'm very cautious, and I'm not saying, hey, I see it and they don't because I'm smart and they're not.

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I'm not saying that. I'm saying, is what I'm seeing really legitimate, or am I just making a mistake?

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But when I look at what it means to be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit, I get the impression it's the charismatic gifts.

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And so the reason I say that is because in Acts 2, they were speaking in tongues, and they're glorifying

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God. And this is said to be the work of the

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Spirit upon them. And when it says that he baptizes with the Spirit, and then

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I think it's in verse 33, he says, Therefore, having been exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the

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Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he's poured forth this which you both see and hear.

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So the Spirit is poured forth, and what they're seeing is the manifestation of speaking in tongues.

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And then when I go to Acts 2 .38, it says, Repent, each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the

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Holy Spirit. What does that mean, the gift of the Holy Spirit? Well, when I look at Acts 10 .44,

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check this out. It says, While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

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All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the

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Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also, for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting

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God. That's the manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit, the charismatic movement. So because of this,

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I'm starting to think that what the gift of the Holy Spirit is, is the charismatic movement upon the believers, by the

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Spirit's gifting for the work of the church and things like that. So, you see where I'm going with this, and why

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I'm saying that? Yeah, I'm here.

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Kind of. So, I'm driving, so I'm trying to focus on what you're saying, while dodging cars and traffic.

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Because I believe in the gift of the Spirit. I'm not totally against it, because I think it doesn't say anywhere where they've ceased.

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I don't know where a lot of poor people get that idea. It doesn't make any sense.

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But anyway, that being said, I was just trying to decipher between the two of, but does the

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Holy Spirit falling on people necessarily mean baptism?

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Well, it just so happens that... Let me get to my notes.

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Poured. Let's see. Poured, poured, poured. I'm trying to find my notes here.

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I have this arranged, my notes. And it talks about the

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Spirit being poured. And I did a study on this. And I'm trying to find the exact verses.

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So, hold on, I'm going through my notes. There's a lot of notes. I've got a lot of notes. And so,

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I know, let me try this. Pour, let's see, asterisk. Nope, doesn't find it.

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So, what I've... Okay, here we go, here we go, here we go, found it. So, in Isaiah 32, 15, until the

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Spirit is poured out upon us from on high, Isaiah 44, 3,

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I will pour out My Spirit on all men, all of your offspring, Ezekiel 39, 29, for I will have poured out

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My Spirit on the house of Israel. Joel 2, 28, I will pour out My Spirit. Joel 2, 29, pour out

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My Spirit. And so, that's how the Old Testament says the Holy Spirit is given, by a pouring out.

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It seems to be that way. So, when we talk about this in the New Testament, and I forgot what your initial question was, the pouring of the

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Spirit, the baptism of the Spirit seems to be the pouring forth. You see what I'm saying? Hmm.

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Okay. Interesting. So, one guy... That's okay.

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Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, one guy, like, I'm looking at the chat, and he made this comment. He says he believes the

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Holy Spirit was the gift. And that may be the case, but it could be also that the gift of the

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Spirit is the Spirit's gifts that He gives. That's what I'm saying.

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So, I'm looking at both of these and wondering. It's a tough one. But you can see,

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I've got to be careful what I say in public, because people go, no, that can't be right. Well, okay.

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But I'm stuck. You see? This would seem to be what it says. Yeah. Hmm.

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Yeah, it seems to be pretty tough. Yeah. I mean, I don't really know what it would change one way or another if it meant, like, if pouring out meant baptism.

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But it seems, though, I don't know if that is likely. And the reason

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I say that is because... No, no, I'm not saying pouring out means baptism. I'm just saying that's how the Holy Spirit is said to be delivered, by the pouring forth of the

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King of the Palm. Delivered, right, right, right. And so when it says you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit, now what does it mean if you say baptized?

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Because if John baptized with water, and if that means immersion, and you'll be baptized with the

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Holy Spirit, and that means immersion also, then you have a problem. But if the Holy Spirit's coming forth is by pouring, which seems to be how the

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Old Testament talks about it, as well as the New Testament, and I gave you the references there, well then, if that's the case, does it mean you'll be baptized with water means the pouring of water, and you'll be baptized with the

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Spirit means the pouring of the Spirit? These are just the questions I'm asking. Hey, we've got another break. Hold on, okay?

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We've got a break. Sorry, man. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. I know this is provocative, but I'm just asking questions.

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So hopefully it's interesting, and I'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

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All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Christopher. I think it's Christopher, right?

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Yeah, I think so. Then we can move on. We've got other callers who want to talk about this. So go ahead, buddy.

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Yeah, sure. Yeah, I was just going to say, I probably have other callers, but this is the last thing

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I'll say, then I'll just hop off, is, like, if there is a clear distinction of the baptism of the

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Holy Spirit before and after, so let me try to word this. So someone becomes a believer, and then it's like, okay, they're a believer that got baptized, like those people on Acts, and then there's a baptism.

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It's like, does that mean, like, Christians level up? I don't know.

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I don't think that's a leveling up, but I think there is a clear distinction of, like, a baptism of the

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Holy Spirit, like in Acts. It seems to be something like that.

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So I'm still studying this, and it's, you know, my view is altering a little bit because of my studies.

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And so there's just more. I'll just say this. There's more to study. I'm figuring things out, and I've got some other things attached to this that I haven't really talked about very much.

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It has to do with signing the seal. But anyway, there you go. You know, just talking about it and seeing what people think.

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Okay? Go ahead. Praise God. Well, you have a good one, Matt. You too, brother. God bless.

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Thanks for the good combo. All right. All right. Now let's get over to Dewey from Ohio.

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Hey, Dewey, welcome. You are on the air. Hey. All right. Hey, thank you for taking my call.

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I think I agree with you completely on the purpose and the method of Jesus's baptism.

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If I remember right, the priests were baptized with like a plant, maybe an oil and water.

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My question is, I'm sorry. Yes, you're right. You're very good.

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Okay. Okay. My question is, if this is the case that, you know, Jesus was being set up for the priesthood to fulfill all righteousness.

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Now, the word used, I hope, is baptismal.

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It's my understanding that this word means immersion or submerging.

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Could he still have been sprinkled is my question. If he was baptized, which...

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Here's the problem with it saying that baptism means immersion. Because you can't make the case from Scripture.

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This I'm confident on. You can't make the case that that's what it means. So it can mean, but does it mean every instance?

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That's the problem. So... Yeah. You'd be baptized with the

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Holy Spirit. Does that mean you're immersed? No. Jesus says, are you willing to undergo the baptism of which

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I'm going to undergo? His trial, his death, and all of that. That's the question.

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Right. And that's not immersion. And then there's the Greek word baptismos, which is found in Hebrews 9 -10.

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And I just recommend everybody read that because it's translated into the English in the NASB as the word washings, washings.

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And so when you look at that and you read what Hebrews 9 is talking about, 9 -10, okay?

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Verse 10. And you read what the context is before and after, you'll see it's the Old Testament sprinkling. Seriously.

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And I'm reading this going, well, that word is in reference to sprinkling. And it can't be that the word baptism just automatically means immersion.

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I don't see why it can't in certain places, but it doesn't mean it every time.

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And that's the thing. And for example, here's another one. First Corinthians 10 -2. In fact,

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I'll just read this one. And let's see if the word immersion fits. This is First Corinthians 10.

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And I'll read verses one and two. I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea.

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And they were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. Well, wait a minute.

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They were baptized into Moses. Did they get wet? Were they immersed in the water? No, they were not.

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And yet they're baptized into Moses. So if baptism means immersion, then we have to say they were all immersed into Moses.

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But it just doesn't make sense. So you see things like this. No, that doesn't make sense.

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That's an excellent answer, and I thank you for that. I'm not educated at all in the

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Greek. I rely on an inner linear if I need to search something. So you're making the case that possibly the translators just denote this word as meaning immersed.

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And that's where my misunderstanding might be. Yeah, it could be.

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And I'm being very careful here because there are people with a lot of degrees who are a lot smarter than I am.

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And I'd love it if they were to call up and say, Matt, you're good, but you're making a mistake here. And I'm open to that publicly.

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You know, correct me. And it's not a good challenge. I'm right and you're wrong. I'll prove you wrong. It's not it.

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So look here. Check this out. And when they came from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they first cleanse themselves.

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Well, the word is baptized. Oh, OK. And they've received order to observe such as the washing of cups.

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So, well, people say that the word the washing there is baptism. So, well, OK, does it mean they immersed the cups in the water?

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Maybe. Does it mean they poured water over things? It could be. But I think in that case, it kind of implies immersion.

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I do. OK, excellent. So when they when they were. OK, I'm sorry.

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I can say one more just to show you in Mark 10, 30, 39. Jesus, you do not know what you're asking.

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Are you able to drink the cup that I drink or be baptized with the baptism with which

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I am baptized? And that's his crucifixion. So it doesn't mean immersion there.

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You know, so you see what I'm saying? It doesn't automatically mean. Yes, I do. Yeah. But yeah, that's an excellent answer.

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I that really clarified it for me. And I thank you very, very much. And God bless you.

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Sure. Sure. No problem. God bless. All right. Wow. Interesting stuff.

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It's provocative. Let's get to Pat Russell. Hey, Pat. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, good to hear from you.

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I just wanted to add something to this. Sure. It's, you know,

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I, I did pray and worship when I was in Colorado. I lived there for about 30 years and I came back to take care of my mother.

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But I've been baptized multiple times. But the time spirit, when I got baptized in the spirit was when

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I went out front multiple times, my wife kept telling me, go up front, let them lay hands on you.

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And finally, after months of this, this one pasture and a couple other ones were there.

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But this one, when he laid his hands upon me, the spirit come upon me. And I promise you,

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I was baptized in the spirit that now I know what the being baptized in the spirit is.

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And it was laying on hands. That's how it happened to me. Praise God, brother.

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I have no problem with that. I have no problem with that. You know, I've been baptized in water multiple times.

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So, you know, I just wanted to let you know that to me, you know, I, when I did believe me, you'll know it when it happens.

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You know, it's just a. Oh, yeah. You know, when you're, you know, when you've been touched by the spirit. Well, two things.

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One, you get baptized in water only once. Don't do it multiple times. Okay. So it's biblically.

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There's one faith, one Lord, one baptism. And they get baptized once. There's no account of them getting multiply baptized multiple times.

31:46

So you want to refrain from that. Okay. I did learn that. That's the worst. But I was a kid, you know, baby.

31:52

Okay. Okay. I thought I needed it again. And I've always looked for the spirit.

31:59

You know, I, I always want to, you know, even though I knew God traveled with me because I went to church.

32:05

Of course, I was, I was, I was raised a Catholic and I, as I grew into the know the

32:11

Bible and got married, I become up a Christian. As I would say,

32:17

I would like to say I'm not of a Catholic ascent anymore. Good.

32:23

Well, that's very good because Catholicism is bankrupt. It's bad. Yeah, but yeah, good luck on the spirit.

32:31

Cause I've got it. I've, I've looked at when you, since you've been talking, I looked to every mark that I got in my

32:37

Bible through the Holy Spirit. And it just says, I will leave you a counselor and he will be with you.

32:43

And that's the only thing I could see is, you know, counselor, a Holy Spirit, how you get baptized in the spirit is good luck.

32:52

I hope you find the answer. I'm listening to you every day. Well, I'm learning and looking and because I'm a public figure talking to the radio, but I'll sometimes talk about this because, uh, you know,

33:05

I don't know. And, uh, I've read commentaries, I've studied, I've had a lot of Greek and college and seminary and I can look at stuff and I just look at what the word says in different contexts.

33:14

And I've analyzed it. My notes on baptism, uh, which are kind of short, they're only 14 pages. So, you know,

33:21

I'm always developing and looking and learning. That's nothing. I have my notes on Catholicism is 217 pages.

33:27

So, you know, this is like 14. I'm embarrassed. That's how, that's how small my notes are on baptism.

33:34

But I do outline notes. That's the best way ever. That's awesome, Matthew. But, you know,

33:39

I, you know, I just, yeah, I don't know what else to say about that.

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I guess the spirit is, uh, it's awesome. All right. We got to go, brother.

33:51

Here's a break. God bless. Thanks for listening. God bless you as well, man. All right. God bless.

33:56

Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

34:14

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Let's get on with Rick from Ohio. Hey, Rick, welcome.

34:20

You're on. Hello. Hello. What do you got, man?

34:27

Hello. Hello. You're on the air. Yes. I can hear you. Okay.

34:34

I'm having a delay on my phone. Oh, okay. Uh, question.

34:41

I've been seeing some things on, uh, social media and stuff like that. And these people are, are trying to claim that the, the

34:49

Sumerian tablets are older than the Bible and that it's more accurate and stuff. Well, I don't believe that.

34:56

I believe it's more of a, they were put there by fallen angels or Nephilim or something to mislead mankind.

35:05

Well, the Sumerian tablets are from the third, fourth, uh, millennium BC. And, uh, many of them do precede the writings of the old

35:13

Testament. Not a problem. So what? So just because something's older doesn't mean it's better and something newer doesn't automatically mean it's better.

35:24

So if someone wants to bring up the Sumerian tablets and, and whatever they want to assert in them, say, okay, where's the documentation for what it is?

35:32

You're saying, you know, they might say, they might say things like, well, the new, the old

35:38

Testament writers got their stuff from the Sumerian tablets. How do you know? Are you just saying it?

35:44

And what are similarities? What are similarities between religious groups all over the world?

35:50

So what? And what I tell people is you got to notice that what's not in the old

35:57

Testament, because in the old Testament, the Jews were in the middle of Egypt and the middle of Syria, the middle of the paganism around them.

36:07

And they were monotheistic, not polytheistic, like the countries around them were. They had the

36:14

Sumerian tablets and Samaria had some pretty pagan rules and regulations. And yet a lot of those were not inside the corpus of old

36:23

Testament, um, uh, revelation. So there's differences. So just because people say, well, the

36:29

Sumerian tablets are older. Oh, okay. And then what I often do when people bring that up is

36:35

I'm doing right now. I I'm typing in, in Google, I begin a Bible, ancient

36:42

Chinese characters. Okay. And enter. And there's this entries answers in Genesis .org.

36:50

And I'm looking. So guess what? This is insignificant because China's stuff goes back 6 ,000 years ago.

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It's the oldest unbroken culture that we know of in the world. And their stuff goes back thousands of years.

37:06

And yet the character for boat is of a boat, a vessel with a number eight and a number of people.

37:16

Why eight people in a boat? Exactly. That was arc. Yeah. And to covet is two trees with a woman or with women, plural.

37:28

Why is that? Or to create is to speak with dust, life, walk, and mud.

37:37

So it goes on. And, uh, to, to warn or forbidden is two trees. And the word

37:42

God, a garden is dust breath with, uh, number two, an enclosure.

37:50

Two persons actually is what you see. And here's like tempter is the, as the symbol is devil trees and cover.

38:01

So I would say to people, I go, wait a minute. That must mean the Sumerians Bob, Bob, uh, it's gonna be borrowed from the

38:09

Chinese because the Chinese were before. You see. All right.

38:15

Problem with that. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you very much.

38:21

I appreciate your answers. And I listened to you on my way home from work every night. So I've been learning a lot from you.

38:28

Well, praise God. And, um, keep listening and be praying because we certainly need. All right.

38:33

God bless you too. Okay. All right. We have nobody waiting right now.

38:40

And, um, for those of her who've just heard about this thing with the

38:46

Chinese characters, you can just go to the web and type in Chinese characters and, uh, and, and Genesis.

38:53

That'll do it. Now, back in California, before I moved here to Idaho, I did pulpit supply, which means that I was a guest preacher in multiple churches over Southern California.

39:05

They might have a pastor who was sick or on vacation or whatever, you know? And they say,

39:11

Hey, Matt, could you come in and preach? And just fill the pulpit for one, one Sunday. He goes, yeah, sure. And so I did this for,

39:17

I don't know, three, four, five years, I guess. I really enjoyed it. Uh, like one day

39:23

I preached in three different churches in one day once and two, uh, in the morning and then one in the evening.

39:29

And, uh, they were close enough. I could do all that. Well, that's just an exception, you know, but I would do that kind of a thing.

39:35

Okay. Now, so I, it was in Southern California in the area of, of Irvine, which is where I went to college.

39:43

And so I was preaching. It was called ABC churches, American born Chinese ABC churches.

39:50

And they were great folks. They love the Lord full of godliness. And, uh, so they, they had these

39:59

American Chinese are born here and yet they spoke Chinese. They spoke Mandarin and whatever.

40:04

And then they had their relatives who came over from the mainland of China who didn't speak English. And so I said, okay, this is after preaching.

40:13

I've been there for many times, you know, they say you come in each month, you know, do it one month to give the pastor a rest, you know, for next six months, you know, no, fine.

40:20

You know, it's scheduled it out, do things like that. So I'd be there regularly, regularly on a lot of the churches and sometimes not.

40:25

All right. So I remember this very clearly. I said to the ABC guys, they were all cool dudes.

40:31

I said, Hey, look, I got a question for you. Can you go ask the, you know, the grandparents there, uh, about this issue of Chinese characters having biblical themes in it.

40:43

And I said, what do you mean? I said, well, like, you know, I've known about this kind of stuff, you know, like, like the word for sin and boat and various things in Chinese have, have these symbols.

40:53

And he says, okay. So he did, he, he, he, I think a couple of people went over and asked him, they were having this discussion in Chinese.

40:59

And then he came back and he said, they're going to, they're going to examine it. And then I watched because of, uh, several of them got together and were drawing and writing in Chinese and discussing stuff.

41:12

And it was really interesting. I didn't know what they're going to say. This is an opportunity to see if it's true or if what

41:18

I've been reading is not true or whatever. And it took about 20 minutes. And they talked to this guy and he interpreted for me.

41:27

He says, yep, it's true. Yep. They were showing different ones and different stuff. He said, they really got into it.

41:33

They thought it was fun. And he says, it's absolutely true. The ancient Chinese characters said there, there were some developments along the 6 ,000 year history of China where some of the characters are modified, but the ancient stuff is like that.

41:48

Absolutely. He says they, they could see some of it. I don't understand how they could, but anyway, I thought it was interesting.

41:55

So it's, it's a, it's a good little, uh, apologetic to have when someone says to you, well, the

42:02

Bible, Old Testament people borrowed from the Sumerian tablets, uh, borrowed from the, the, um, uh,

42:10

Epic of Gilgamesh borrowed from this or that. And I asked him, I set them up.

42:15

I say, are you then saying, because the, um, the, this one came earlier than the other.

42:23

Therefore the later one borrowed from the earlier one. Yeah. That's what we're saying. Oh, okay.

42:30

Then I show them this and, uh, because by your own logic then that means they borrowed from the

42:36

Chinese. What are they going to do? Well, no, it doesn't count. Well, yes, it does.

42:42

That's why you ask them. Okay. So that, that's what it is. And, um,

42:48

I enjoy, uh, you know, the apologetics, the defense of the Christian faith. I enjoy all of that kind of thing.

42:55

And, uh, it's a lot of fun for me, for me. It is a lot of fun. So, Hey, look, we have nobody waiting right now.

43:00

If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276. Now, what did you think of the, uh, the issue of, um, of the baptism that I was talking about?

43:14

Because what I was saying is a little bit different, you know? Uh, it's not something that people hear very often.

43:25

And it's challenging to people. So I got to tell you that I've always reticent to talk about things like this because just because I say this doesn't mean it's true.

43:36

But what I do is I look and I wonder, okay, is what

43:42

I'm thinking accurate according to the scriptures? Is it true? And so I thought

43:49

I would just talk about it because, well, you know, I got a lot more I could talk about with baptism a lot more because I've really been doing a lot of study on it.

44:00

And I, I talk about it periodically with people and my notes grow. So like I said before, my opinion, and maybe

44:09

I'm wrong. My opinion is that Jesus was sprinkled at his baptism. And I have friends who don't agree with me and I go, okay,

44:17

I'm not mad at them and they're not mad at me. They might just say, well, I don't think it's a good missing argument. Okay. All right.

44:23

You know, that's all right. I don't have any problem with that.

44:29

So when the Bible talks about it, it's the verb with something.

44:37

Walking with your neighbor. Anointed with oil.

44:43

The word with can have different meanings in different contexts. And so like I was saying earlier, what

44:50

I had done is because I had this great Bible program, Logos, and it is extremely powerful.

44:57

And I've been using it for, I don't know, 25 years. So I know it pretty well. And I can do searches for words, root words, types of words, grammar, functions and everything.

45:08

And I can see where it might be, you know, where's the air is passive indicative occurring in there and all the

45:13

New Testament, you know, it'll show you the list. Oh, there it is. You know, I can see what's going on anyway.

45:20

So that's what I did with the issue of with. And I, you know, the word with occurs a lot in the

45:28

Bible. So I did things like with water, with oil, with blood, with trouble.

45:35

I just put different words on the end of it and would search because sometimes I'd find a with something and other times

45:40

I wouldn't. But I did all kinds of variations to see what the Bible taught, to see if I could find a pattern.

45:48

That's what I've been doing. And that's what I learned to do so many years ago was, well, people say things, but what does the

45:56

Bible say? They can assert certain values. Okay, maybe it's true.

46:02

Maybe it's true, but let me go check it with scripture. And it's not a defiant attitude.

46:08

It's not. It's, well, let me go check because what you're saying may be true and what you're saying may not be true.

46:15

In fact, some of the things I believe may not be true. And I still go, I'm thinking this, but is it right?

46:21

I go do a study. See, I'm not loyal to a denomination. I don't have to keep my pastorate by holding to a certain doctrinal point.

46:31

You know, I had to be pre -trib or I have to be a cessationist in order to keep my pastorate. I don't have to worry about any of that.

46:37

I'm absolutely free to just say, well, what does it say? And if I change my position, I go, you know what?

46:42

I changed my position. It doesn't cost me anything because I know it can cost people.

46:50

Randall there says, I agree with your take on baptism, Matt. See, that just shows you how smart Randall is.

46:55

You see, he's obviously a highly intelligent guy. All right. So here's another one.

47:02

Winfield says, I think the question of baptism being salvific is more important than the mode. Winfield, I agree with you.

47:09

I absolutely agree with you. And, you know, I was talking about the mode of baptism.

47:14

Then another time, you guys should call me up. And you could say, is baptism necessary for salvation?

47:20

And I'll tell you right now, the answer is no. It is definitely not. Should we get baptized? Absolutely, yes, we should.

47:28

Yes, we should. We should get baptized. It's important. Don't deny it. And please do it.

47:34

But it's not the thing that makes you justified before God. We can talk about that some other time.

47:39

There's the music. I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you. Hope that was entertaining, provocative, and maybe even a little bit annoying.

47:47

And if that's the case, go look at your word and see what the Bible says. Hey, folks, I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you.